RE: Getting an Audio Plugin Created

[Lynn Fredricks]

> What is the procedure to follow if we want to help (donate) ?
> Bon souvenir de Paris
> René
> 
> Le 5 juin 2010 à 19:01, Lynn Fredricks a écrit :
> 
> > Development would only start after the donation account reaches a 
> > reasonable level of confirmed donations (it will get spelled out in 
> > the next few weeks). Basically anyone who donates over level X will 
> > get a copy of the plugin(s).

Hi René,

It will get posted here in the next two weeks. Thanks for your interest! :-)

Best regards,

Lynn Fredricks
Mirye Software Publishing
http://www.mirye.com

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Re: Getting an Audio Plugin Created

[René Micout]

What is the procedure to follow if we want to help (donate) ?
Bon souvenir de Paris
René

Le 5 juin 2010 à 19:01, Lynn Fredricks a écrit :

> Development would only start after the donation account reaches a reasonable
> level of confirmed donations (it will get spelled out in the next few
> weeks). Basically anyone who donates over level X will get a copy of the
> plugin(s).

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RE: Getting an Audio Plugin Created

[Lynn Fredricks]

> There was some discussion about Using BASS as an audio plugin 
> a short while ago.
> 
> Several other audio solutions were also mentioned.
> 
> Does anyone now if some sort of communication has taken place 
> about getting a plugin or wrapper produced so something more 
> sophisticated for audio can be done with Rev?

Hi Jim,

I posted the original post about developing a commercial plugin for enhanced
audio to see what the level of interest is.

Similar to how we got the Franklin 3D external made, I am looking into
scheduling an enhanced audio plugin, most likely using an organized donation
system to fund its development though. This would be handled through our
indie dev group that isnt directly involved with Valentina.

Development would only start after the donation account reaches a reasonable
level of confirmed donations (it will get spelled out in the next few
weeks). Basically anyone who donates over level X will get a copy of the
plugin(s).

Externals are written in C++, and its expensive development. But, you know I
have extensive resources overseas and can get this kind of development help
at a very reasonable cost.

We actually had a good list of folks express interest in, and even confirm
helping us fund Franklin 3D development by pre-purchasing Franklin 3D
licenses - enough to cover costs of the development. Unfortunately, almost
all left us holding the bag. 

We have paid off those costs and can now afford to keep paying for updates,
but it was a lesson on this kind of development.

A little background on this Audio plugin project - I discussed this with
several other Rev developers, now a few years ago, and were warned of
another project to deliver something similar. Basically, it would have
killed any commercial value in the project - so we dropped it. That project
never materialized. This plugin could have been been available 1-2 years ago
if it weren't for this.

Within the next two weeks, Ill post more details. It would be useful though
if there was agreement on the most important, core features for such a
plugin - not a hog wild list, but everyone's top five features, starting
with multi-channel audio.

Best regards,

Lynn Fredricks
President
Paradigma Software
http://www.paradigmasoft.com

Valentina SQL Server: The Ultra-fast, Royalty Free Database Server 

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Re: Getting an Audio Plugin Created ( was RE: [audio] Call for anupdated enhanced quicktime audio library ora small audiocomplementary library!)

[Jim Sims]

On Jun 5, 2010, at 11:21 AM, Malte Pfaff-Brill wrote:

> I did not get any feedback from the bass guys yet. Maybe somebody else was 
> more lucky?

According to the BASS forum an iPhone version has been released.

"There have been quite a lot of requests for the iPhone version recently, so 
it's probably about time that it was made publicly available. Well, here it 
is...

   www.un4seen.com/stuff/bass24-iphone.zip (updated: 23 Apr '10)"


I wonder if having that already done might make it easier for them to at least 
make an OS X version or wrapper for us to use with Rev. 


sims





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Re: Getting an Audio Plugin Created ( was RE: [audio] Call for anupdated enhanced quicktime audio library ora small audiocomplementary library!)

[Malte Pfaff-Brill]

I did not get any feedback from the bass guys yet. Maybe somebody else was more 
lucky?

Cheers,

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Re: Getting an Audio Plugin Created ( was RE: [audio] Call for anupdated enhanced quicktime audio library ora small audiocomplementary library!)

[René Micout]

Some application VST compatible :

Ableton Live
Audacity
ACID Pro
Ardour 2
Cubase
energyXT
Fruityloops (FL Studio)
Jeskola Buzz (Polac VST loader)
Logic Pro
WaveLab
MadTracker

It is good for me > Logic Pro and it is not bad for Windows users
René

Le 23 mai 2010 à 19:47, stephen barncard a écrit :

> VST is 'best' for PC users of Cubase and Nuendo

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Re: Getting an Audio Plugin Created ( was RE: [audio] Call for anupdated enhanced quicktime audio library ora small audiocomplementary library!)

[stephen barncard]

I was "humbly" stupid in my assumptions about RTAS. I should read more
before I speak.
The DAW world is littered with proprietary and security stumbling blocks
similar to what we've encountered with Apple and the iPhone.

A list of plugin formats is here (with definition links ):
http://www.kvraudio.com/wiki/?id=Plug-in+Formats



   - APPLE ONLY
   - AU  (Audio Units)
   - AS  (Audio Suite)
   -OTHER
   - DX  (DirectX)
   - DSSI  (Disposable Soft Synth
   Interface)
   - LADSPA  (Linux Audio
   Developer's Simple Plugin API)
   - MAS  (MOTU Audio System)
   - MFX  (MIDI FX)
   - ReWire 
   -PRO TOOLS ONLY
   - RTAS  (Real Time Audio Suite)
   - TDM  (Time Domain Multiplex)
   - VST  (Virtual Studio Technology)



my personal and opinionated opinion:


VST is 'best' for PC users of Cubase and Nuendo. But I don't know any top
recording professionals that use PCs or Cubase for audio.   Some DP users
out there on Mac.
Granted, this is my myopic west coast view - but most of the pros are out on
the edges of this country!
As you get outside the big cities, and into the south and midwest, one will
see more PC based audio systems, often because there is less local support
for the hardware. (Good luck trying to buy a new mac at a Best Buy in
Mobile, AL. They don't stock them. But there are no major studios or post
houses there.)
 Some TV post guys use closed systems like Fairlight, Sadie and Radar and
are PC based - usually with their own plugins. Nuendo is big with the
Nashville guys, but on a Mac.

You are correct about the Pro Tools lock-in on RTAS - it's
cross-computer-platform though (Win-Mac) and Pro Tools is sorta the iPhone
of audio DAWs - I'm imagining 60-70% market share - huge. Anybody who is
into more than just recording themselves and needs to exchange files from
many clients - will always transport their project in Pro Tools format.
Finally, remember they are AVID - the god of professional video editing and
their systems are made to seamlessly exchange information among their
applications.

If we were making something aimed at professionals, this would be the format
to go for.

I don't think we should bother with these kind of plugins. Too much crap to
go through that has nothing to do with programming.

We have to think differently about plugins. Or not bother.

We small guys out here would be crushed by the complexity and expense of
1. Getting to be a licensee of RTAS or VST technology and those limitations
2. *Dealing with the extreme plugin authorization process if not installed*
3. Dealing with the iLok issues - probably a mandatory dongle
4. etc etc.

Now going back to checking on FOSS solutions for plugins
LADSPA, Rosegarden, ALSA, JACK, Audacity
and try and understand what is the plugin situation with BASS. if any.

(to be continued)


On 23 May 2010 05:26, René Micout  wrote:

> Is RTAS Pro Tools compatible only ?
> If yes, it is not a good standard.
> VST is best...
> René
>
> Le 20 mai 2010 à 20:19, stephen barncard a écrit :
>
> > I would humbly suggest that RTAS be the standard for plugins
>
>
>
-- 
-
Stephen Barncard
San Francisco
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Re: Getting an Audio Plugin Created ( was RE: [audio] Call for anupdated enhanced quicktime audio library ora small audiocomplementary library!)

[René Micout]

Is RTAS Pro Tools compatible only ?
If yes, it is not a good standard.
VST is best...
René

Le 20 mai 2010 à 20:19, stephen barncard a écrit :

> I would humbly suggest that RTAS be the standard for plugins

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Re: Getting an Audio Plugin Created ( was RE: [audio] Call for anupdated enhanced quicktime audio library ora small audiocomplementary library!)

[Alejandro Tejada]

Hi all,

Remember these externals that plays MOD music:

For Mac OS X, Andre Garzia published in 2007:

RevMikMod is an external for MacOS X Runtime Revolution.
It is built upon on MikMod library which is licensed with LGPL,
so this is freeware with source. This external uses Carbon
Thread API, the music will play on another thread so there's
no performance issue. You can play only one music at a time
but you can change speed, tempo and volume. 

http://andregarzia.com/revmikmod.html
http://www.mail-archive.com/use-revolution@lists.runrev.com/msg98790.html

FMODforRev external published by Bill Griffin & Tobias Opfermann in 2003,
http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2003-October/025163.html

Fmod is a music library that is free to use in freeware products, and 
costs varying amounts of money for other shareware and commercial uses. 
http://www.fmod.org/ has more info on that.

(Not available from authors website, but probably some
developers have these externals among their Backup files)

Mac Version: http://www.igame3d.com/FMODforRev.sit
PC Version: http://www.igame3d.com/FMODforRev.zip

Alejandro
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Re: Getting an Audio Plugin Created ( was RE: [audio] Call for anupdated enhanced quicktime audio library ora small audiocomplementary library!)

[Robert Mann]

I find their licensing terms really fine and I like their attitude too. This
library really smells good to me.

So I have emailed them too. Technically I have not yet used external
libraries. As I understand it we have to create a runrev wrapper in the X
code environment. I guess if one makes one, it can be used by any other, so
long their usage sticks to the license. Since there is a free step and we
should to test it out, if it was something easy to do for an externals
"specialist", it would be a great help to share this wrapper. (I took time
to read the rev artice on how to use externals).


Also, considering the technicalities of dealing with audio, I understand
that runrev have not commited to it. Now a specific global agreement
allowing runrev to incorporate the major most required functions would be
great!! Special needs would be covered by an additional library with a
direct license from BASS.

Anybody in touch with the runrev team personnaly?

As for sharing things over here, I 'll exchange the BASS wrapper for the
workaround audio trick I found to record mp3 in a stack, as shared revOnline
stacks!  My position is to share technical tricks that should not pose
problems ("normally" or "ideally"?) but that in practice  lead to
headaches... that one should not wish for your neigbhour!!!


Stephen Barncard-4 wrote:
> 
> I saw no wrong on the licensing. I like their attitude, their pricing
> model.
> Pretty reasonable, even cheap, if one would ask me. Look, this stuff is
> used
> for professional applications, is not easy to write, and the authors
> deserve
> payment. And they are not charging royalties. How could one expect
> quality,
> free, and supported to be in the same product?
> 
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Re: Getting an Audio Plugin Created ( was RE: [audio] Call for anupdated enhanced quicktime audio library ora small audiocomplementary library!)

[stephen barncard]

I saw no wrong on the licensing. I like their attitude, their pricing model.
Pretty reasonable, even cheap, if one would ask me. Look, this stuff is used
for professional applications, is not easy to write, and the authors deserve
payment. And they are not charging royalties. How could one expect quality,
free, and supported to be in the same product?

Anybody we contract will want to be paid far more than this. The fee is
graduated for different groups,  hobbyist and demo, shareware author, pro.
This stuff is used for the core of applications.

We shouldn't assume that these guys won't make deals - they might be into
creating actual externals for Rev at a very reasonable price - who knows
until you try. Did anyone email these folks?


On 21 May 2010 12:49, Malte Pfaff-Brill  wrote:

> BASS has been around quite a while. Started as a mod playing library (the
> stuff you could hear on your amigas and ataris back in the day). It would be
> a very good candidate, however, their licensing model might be in the way:
>
> [quote]
> BASS is free for non-commercial use. If you are a non-commercial entity
> (eg. an individual) and you are not charging for your product, and the
> product has no other commercial purpose, then you can use BASS in it for
> free. Otherwise, you will require one of the following licences.
> Shareware licence: €100
> The "shareware" licence allows the usage of BASS in an unlimited number of
> your shareware products, which must sell for no more than 40 Euros each. If
> you're an individual (not a corporation) making and selling your own
> software (and its price is within the limit), this is the licence for you.
> Single Commercial licence: €950
> The "single commercial" licence allows the usage of BASS in a single
> commercial product.
>
> Unlimited Commercial licence: €2750
> The "unlimited commercial" licence allows the usage of BASS in an unlimited
> number of your commercial products. This licence applies to a single
> site/location. note that all prices are quoted in Euros, but payment can
> also be made in several other currencies These licences are on a
> per-platform basis. There is a 40% reduction on each additional platform,
> eg. Win32 and OSX Shareware licences would cost €160 instead of €200. In all
> cases there are no royalties to pay and you can use future BASS updates
> without further cost. Reselling/sublicensing is not permitted. Your products
> must be end-user products, eg. not components used by other products. Please
> note that these licences only cover your own software, not the publishing of
> other's software. If you have got any questions, please get in touch.
> [/quote]
>
> All the best,
>
> Malte___
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-- 
-
Stephen Barncard
Back home in SF
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Re: Getting an Audio Plugin Created ( was RE: [audio] Call for anupdated enhanced quicktime audio library ora small audiocomplementary library!)

[Robert Mann]

Thanks for sharing. Looks like important piece of news. Looks great!! Had a
look at the apps that use it, and at the forum. Next step is to download and
test. If that ever works fine on mac and windows, whouaou! That is indeed
what we need.

I'll look into it and dig the use of c libraries in runrev, which so far I
have nicely avoided. 

First one with feedback creates the "BASS audio lib"?

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Re: Getting an Audio Plugin Created ( was RE: [audio] Call for anupdated enhanced quicktime audio library ora small audiocomplementary library!)

[stephen barncard]

Surfing, I found this just now:

http://www.un4seen.com/

It looks like it's exactly what we've been talking about. Is it real?

sqb

On 20 May 2010 11:19, stephen barncard wrote:

> Again I stress that if we try to put too much 'stuff' into this library
> (read: special effects) that it will distract from getting a solid
> foundation for us to build on. Rather than insisting on the inclusion of
> arbitrary, possibly lower-quality reverbs and time stretchers, I would
>
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Re: Getting an Audio Plugin Created ( was RE: [audio] Call for anupdated enhanced quicktime audio library ora small audiocomplementary library!)

[stephen barncard]

Again I stress that if we try to put too much 'stuff' into this library
(read: special effects) that it will distract from getting a solid
foundation for us to build on. Rather than insisting on the inclusion of
arbitrary, possibly lower-quality reverbs and time stretchers, I would
rather see an ability to  *use plugins of at least one type from the
beginning* to narrow the focus of what really had to be made to get us "on
the air" with better, cross-platform audio control in general.

Midi is really a separate issue - and has anyone made a Quicktime Midi
external? Is there 'more in there' that can be grokked out for both
platforms? Trevor?

 Remember once one gets into the realm of special effects libraries; the
good ones are going to cost money to license. Ultimately, there's no free
lunch here. This stuff has all been done before and researched, it is not
trivial coding. Using plugins would open up a much larger world for Rev as
an AV builder (along with video enhancements in another project ). We
wouldn't need the timeline feature right away either -- and I disagree with
the other poster about their being no need for better metering as I propose:

*f18   A metering object that deals with real time display of peak levels
for x channels*

All that is available for level metering currently is the recordLevel
property, which has to be constantly polled while displaying in some kind of
progress control. It serves no purpose but to show that 'something is
happening' (which has been the basic concern of video guys for 60 years).
 It is not useful for setting levels, does not show stereo levels, and is
not available when not in record (which is exactly the time when one needs
it).

Another use for the meter input would be as a ONE-BIT input -- easily
accomplished with a simple noise source and contact closure. But I digress,
except to say there's a lot more that can be accomplished here besides
munging audio.  All this 'stuff' would be also useful for* higher speed data
collection*, something that Rev could be really good at.

It would be fast - more than enough to detect accurate taps.

I would humbly suggest that RTAS be the standard for plugins - many
inexpensive one-man shops are turning out impressive plugs and selling for 0
to 200 dollars and in most cases are cross-platform. VST could be added
later.  I don't know if audio units would be worth it, unless the rich
interface of the plugins can be shown. I've seen a lot of problems in that
area.

We need primitives for the Audio Object first.

Fud for thought

On 20 May 2010 07:52, Fred Moyer  wrote:

> I've been following this thread and am very excited about the possibility
> of more audio functionality from within Rev. I am continually in need for
> these kinds of tools (mostly audio but also midi.) Here's my wishlist:
>
> - Play a sound file at a different speeds without changing pitch, while
> maintaining good sound quality. Some time shift apps sound pretty poor.
> There is a program called the Amazing Slow Downer which I think does a good
> job.
> - Fade ins/out. At present if all you need to do is fade from one song to
> another, two rev players works fine. But the splices I need to do are
> between two versions of the exact same place in the same song. I've been
> trying to do it with 2 rev players and there is usually a little bauble at
> the splice point. (Aside: I think I have a better "formula" for fades than
> the n // 100-n formula -- if anyone is interested, contact me.) One problem
> I'm experiencing is that when I play the same fade over and over, it sounds
> slightly different each time, telling me that "set the currentime of player
> x"  is probably just not rock-solid enough for what I'm doing. So what would
> be great is a fading/splicing feature that is rock-solid and is a lot finer
> than 600 units per second.
> - With one stack I'm working on, I need to "tap" to the music to record the
> timing of the notes. This is classical music that often includes lots of
> fast notes. I've tried using the mouse or keyboard to do this, but the
> resulting data is inexact. (I think the computer is doing other tasks at the
> same time and doesn't give these mouseclicks or keydowns top priority.)
> Maybe what I need is some kind of midi input (I gather that is one of the
> great things about midi -- that it doesn't matter if the computer is
> downloading emails or looking for bluetooth devices -- it is going to record
> the time of those midi events perfectly.) But if midi features are added, it
> would be great if the user doesn't need to hook up a midi keyboard to
> record; for what I need to do, just the computer keyboard and mouse should
> be sufficient.
> - EQ, reverb, limiters/compressors would be great, and a way to add 3rd
> party plugins for those wanting higher quality.
>
> Thanks.
> Fred
>
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re: Getting an Audio Plugin Created ( was RE: [audio] Call for anupdated enhanced quicktime audio library ora small audiocomplementary library!)

[Fred Moyer]

I've been following this thread and am very excited about the  
possibility of more audio functionality from within Rev. I am  
continually in need for these kinds of tools (mostly audio but also  
midi.) Here's my wishlist:


- Play a sound file at a different speeds without changing pitch,  
while maintaining good sound quality. Some time shift apps sound  
pretty poor. There is a program called the Amazing Slow Downer which  
I think does a good job.
- Fade ins/out. At present if all you need to do is fade from one  
song to another, two rev players works fine. But the splices I need  
to do are between two versions of the exact same place in the same  
song. I've been trying to do it with 2 rev players and there is  
usually a little bauble at the splice point. (Aside: I think I have a  
better "formula" for fades than the n // 100-n formula -- if anyone  
is interested, contact me.) One problem I'm experiencing is that when  
I play the same fade over and over, it sounds slightly different each  
time, telling me that "set the currentime of player x"  is probably  
just not rock-solid enough for what I'm doing. So what would be great  
is a fading/splicing feature that is rock-solid and is a lot finer  
than 600 units per second.
- With one stack I'm working on, I need to "tap" to the music to  
record the timing of the notes. This is classical music that often  
includes lots of fast notes. I've tried using the mouse or keyboard  
to do this, but the resulting data is inexact. (I think the computer  
is doing other tasks at the same time and doesn't give these  
mouseclicks or keydowns top priority.) Maybe what I need is some kind  
of midi input (I gather that is one of the great things about midi --  
that it doesn't matter if the computer is downloading emails or  
looking for bluetooth devices -- it is going to record the time of  
those midi events perfectly.) But if midi features are added, it  
would be great if the user doesn't need to hook up a midi keyboard to  
record; for what I need to do, just the computer keyboard and mouse  
should be sufficient.
- EQ, reverb, limiters/compressors would be great, and a way to add  
3rd party plugins for those wanting higher quality.


Thanks.
Fred
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Re: Getting an Audio Plugin Created ( was RE: [audio] Call for an updated enhanced quicktime audio library ora small audio complementary library!)

[stephen barncard]

I think the below should be added to "Set1 -  BASIC AUDIO "trim" functions"

*f16  -  load, save and play audio from a variable*


Imagine an array with sounds!

Echo/Reverb, IMHO, is hard to do well and be efficient at the same time.
Most likely would be cheesy anyway, and this should be saved for plugins.

If one is talking about fading in fading out, crossfade, etc then we have to
have this one at the start

f17 - multiple asynchronous audio streams


"stream" meaning an individual thread of sound, not necessarily an internet
stream.

I thought I saw a mention of some audio functions being done in RevTalk.
 I'd say that wouldn't be possible - audio is real-time and binary.



One other mention - *Digital audio is dangerous when it runs wild.* The
worst case is a blast of digital noise at full scale, which is many db above
the usual operating level. Some users of DAW software have heard this
occasionally - I myself have experienced this when running Digital Performer
on a drive that ran out of space while recording -  It's the worst noise
I've ever heard, and the most painful and you NEVER want to experience it.
It can easily blow ears, headphones and speakers, mostly tweeters.

I would suggest to any of those out there considering writing code for audio
for the first time to make sure your monitoring system and your ears are
protected - get a cheap audio limiter to put across the audio output for
testing, so it absorbs the increase in level when things get out of hand -
and they always will if you are messing with the bits, just like code
crashes during development. Just expect it.

The people that commercial audio software like Digidesign have to be
continually on the lookout for Full Scale Output and take strenuous steps to
make sure it NEVER HAPPENS. Imagine doing an overdub with headphones on and
then this ear-splitting noise happens when they punch into record.  Ouch.

One more issue is sample rate.   We've reached an audio plateau at 24 bits/
96k sample rate.
This is 120 db of dynamic range, folks, with a sample rate that allows
easier filtering, and disk usage that is reasonable. 120 db, by the way, is
waay below the actual noise floor of the surrounding analog electronics!

 I know of very few people that record with bit width beyond 24, or samples
beyond 96k. This means one can record transients detectable up to 44khz !
Faster sample rates are more  demanding of processing resources without that
much sonic improvement. It's cool to say that your DAW can 'do' 192k, but at
the loss of how many tracks?

For that reason, limits should be set now to target the 24/96 ceiling and
not worry about performance at rates beyond that. Nobody uses it.

sqb


On 18 May 2010 02:54, Robert Mann  wrote:

>
> Thanks all for your contributions. I propose to set up somewhere a wiki
> page
> so that all interested parties can  append a specification document with
> suggestions, reactions and so on.. ??
>
> It sounds a good idea to set the boundaries between several "levels" of
> librairies and raw some specifications subsets consequently. In practice It
> can be a good way to start and see if things go well.
>
> Feedbacks :
>
> 1) Please do append at this stage with your ideas but do refer to fNumbers
> that should not change. If you add, add a fNumber. Yhanks.
>
>
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Re: Getting an Audio Plugin Created ( was RE: [audio] Call for anupdated enhanced quicktime audio library ora small audiocomplementary library!)

[René Micout]

Indeed the Midi functions are specific and can be a separate library ...
Bon souvenir de Paris
René

Le 18 mai 2010 à 16:23, Lynn Fredricks a écrit :

> Hi all,
> 
>>> f6 - Command > PlayMidiChord(parameters : dito PlayMidiNote 
>> with pitch 
>>> = array of notes) or chord name? (robert M)
> 
> We need to get something off our plate first but, I wonder if MIDI is
> necessarily something to bundle in with everything else. Im sure we'd be
> looking at some available C/C++ libraries like we did with Franklin 3D, and
> if present that would make a difference.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Lynn Fredricks
> President
> Paradigma Software
> http://www.paradigmasoft.com
> 
> Valentina SQL Server: The Ultra-fast, Royalty Free Database Server 
> 
> 
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RE: Getting an Audio Plugin Created ( was RE: [audio] Call for anupdated enhanced quicktime audio library ora small audiocomplementary library!)

[Lynn Fredricks]

Hi all,

> > f6 - Command > PlayMidiChord(parameters : dito PlayMidiNote 
> with pitch 
> > = array of notes) or chord name? (robert M)

We need to get something off our plate first but, I wonder if MIDI is
necessarily something to bundle in with everything else. Im sure we'd be
looking at some available C/C++ libraries like we did with Franklin 3D, and
if present that would make a difference.

Best regards,

Lynn Fredricks
President
Paradigma Software
http://www.paradigmasoft.com

Valentina SQL Server: The Ultra-fast, Royalty Free Database Server 


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Re: Getting an Audio Plugin Created ( was RE: [audio] Call for an updated enhanced quicktime audio library ora small audio complementary library!)

[René Micout]

Hello Robert,

Le 18 mai 2010 à 11:54, Robert Mann a écrit :

> f6 - Command > PlayMidiChord(parameters : dito PlayMidiNote with pitch =
> array of notes) 
> or chord name? (robert M)

Chord name is possibly a good thing, but it is better to have possibilities to 
contruct chords with a list of notes... There is conventional chords (Major, 
Monor, Seventh, etc.) and there is unconventional chords (all that remains to 
be invented and which, for the moment is not yet familiar to our ears)
Bon souvenir de Paris
René

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Re: Getting an Audio Plugin Created ( was RE: [audio] Call for an updated enhanced quicktime audio library ora small audio complementary library!)

[Robert Mann]

Thanks all for your contributions. I propose to set up somewhere a wiki page
so that all interested parties can  append a specification document with
suggestions, reactions and so on.. ??

It sounds a good idea to set the boundaries between several "levels" of
librairies and raw some specifications subsets consequently. In practice It
can be a good way to start and see if things go well.

Feedbacks :

1) Please do append at this stage with your ideas but do refer to fNumbers
that should not change. If you add, add a fNumber. Yhanks. 

Current number of functions is : 18th may = 15

2) In a second time I'll turn that into a table so that we can all express
what we need mostly 300% and have a braod and precise view of the situation.



Basically we would have the following possibilities :

---
Set1 -  BASIC AUDIO "trim" functions, just to be able to record good quality
sounds (Robert Maniquant)

fa1 - fade in / fade out possibly auto-trim functions
fa2 - cross mix fade in and out between two or more files. 
fa3 - normalization 
fa4 - a simple basic reverb/echo combined for voice/music with basic setting

these functions should work on raw wave files as recorded by the runrev
record function.

To be complemented by an mp3 output (see later)


---
Set2 - MIDI PLAY (rene Micout)

f5 - Command > PlayMidiNote
(midiChannel,instrument,pitch,duration,velocity,pano,vibrato,reverb) with
parameters : 
midiChannel = Midi channel number 
instrument = number of Midi instrument (General Midi § General Midi
Drum & other...) 0-127... 
pitch = note Midi : 0-127 
duration = duration of the note in milliseconds 
velocity = volume of the note (QuickTime synthesizer) 0-127 
pano = panoramic Midi 0-127 
vibrato = vibrato effect Midi 0-127 
reverb = reverberation effect Midi 0-127 

f6 - Command > PlayMidiChord(parameters : dito PlayMidiNote with pitch =
array of notes) 
 or chord name? (robert M)

f7- midi Message > Trap USB signal from a musical keyboard by example with
parameters midiChannel,pitch,on/off... 

The latency must be < 40 miliseconds 

Robert : the equality of midi sounds rests on using a good sound lib. So
that should be controlled somehow. (set sound lib?)

---
Set3 - extended "pro" AUDIO MIXING (stephen Barncard)

f8. Multiple audio streams, multichannel possibilities 
Robert : interesting point, an audio stream lib, that could be compatible
with revWeb too!?

f9. Edit window primitives (waveform drawing, edit points) 

f10. Good level metering hooks 
robert : I think we do have these in revOnline, they work fine to view the
output.

f11. RTAS Plugins 

f12. SMPTE Library 

f13. Support for OGG and Flac 

---
Set4 - AUDIO PROGRAMING LIBRARIES
f13 : open/save wave file content. Content poured into a data table, ready
to deal with. Save back from the result table, empty copy of the input data
table.

Robert : could be basis for Set3 pro audio mixing, that could be done as
much as possible direct in xTalk.

---
Set0 - License free NON QUICKTIME AUDIO FRAMEWORK : a non quicktime,
concurrent mac, windows and linux compliant audio framework, based on a
license free format like org vorbis; with the runrev made installer to make
this an ok road to develop apps without risking tons of support calls for
that.

f14- MP3 output :  so far we have to use lame which is great, but, implies
installing that on each computer... an included plugin would be much more
simple and reduce risks of support issues

Robert : I wonder if it could be possible to make an AAC export function
license free if it is made available to the pulic, ei non commercial. I
think it could work out. e.g. Runrev could not, but a non lucrative
asociation could perhaps!?

f15- simpler & basic : a lame installer and checking utility



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Re: Getting an Audio Plugin Created ( was RE: [audio] Call for an updated enhanced quicktime audio library ora small audio complementary library!)

[Alejandro Tejada]

Hi all,


Lynn Fredricks-2 wrote:
> 
> We have engineers that could create audio externals. It's the sort of
> thing
> though we don't have immediate need for internally though. We could do
> something using a platform like kickstarter to do it. The question would
> be,
> what features and how much?
> 

Lynn, Could you produce plug-ins in two versions: basic and advanced?

Basic versions would be cheap, (From US$10 to US$25) audio or video
or OpenGL players/viewers with basic functions: (play, stop, pause, 
go next audio/movie/object, etc...).
These basics functions requires minimal or no support from developers.

Advanced versions (From US$200 to US$500) allows more detailed control
of parameters, have many more commands and functions and complete
support from developers.

In my particular wish list, basic SWF Flash player and FLV Flash video
player
could be really useful.

Alejandro
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Re: Getting an Audio Plugin Created ( was RE: [audio] Call for an updated enhanced quicktime audio library ora small audio complementary library!)

[stephen barncard]

1. Multiple audio streams, multichannel possibilities
2. Edit window primitives (waveform drawing, edit points)
3. Good level metering hooks
4. RTAS Plugins
5. SMPTE Library
6. Support for OGG and Flac

Building this stuff from scratch would be nuts - unless you're a great audio
code scientist - and that stuff is for the machine language programmers.
It still makes my brain hurt to think of the code that makes Pro Tools play
96 tracks on my "old" Dual 2.5 G5, with *plugins*!

If I got a big audio project right now that required me to include audio
editing, I might go out and investigate the offerings from Cycling 74


If you want to develop your own low-level audio algorithms, Max/MSP provides
an ideal platform with its C-based API for new unit generators. Max takes
care of file I/O and user interface construction as well. Another option for
lower-level development is mxj~, a modular Java-based system for audio
development.

These guys have been in business for years. This stuff takes a lot of work,
blown speakers, -- serious code that can easily lock up your machine.

On the Mac side, perhaps a lot of what we want is already installed in Core
Audio, Core Midi. Not sure of Win.

So at the independent author level, I think a core audio plugin might be
do-able, not sure of the copyright issues.

Sadly, as Richard always asks:"What's the ROI?"


On 16 May 2010 07:46, Lynn Fredricks  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> > I am very interested in your requests, myself repeatedly
> > mentioned the lack of Runrev about Audio.
>
> We have engineers that could create audio externals. It's the sort of thing
> though we don't have immediate need for internally though. We could do
> something using a platform like kickstarter to do it. The question would
> be,
> what features and how much?
>
> Best regards,
>
> Lynn Fredricks
> President
> Paradigma Software
> http://www.paradigmasoft.com
>
> Valentina SQL Server: The Ultra-fast, Royalty Free Database Server
>
>
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-- 
-
Stephen Barncard
Back home in SF
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Re: Getting an Audio Plugin Created ( was RE: [audio] Call for an updated enhanced quicktime audio library ora small audio complementary library!)

[René Micout]

Hello Lynn,
The basic "Midi" function could be (by example, :

1. Command > PlayMidiNote 
(midiChannel,instrument,pitch,duration,velocity,pano,vibrato,reverb) with 
parameters :
midiChannel = Midi channel number
instrument = number of Midi instrument (General Midi § General Midi 
Drum & other...) 0-127...
pitch = note Midi : 0-127
duration = duration of the note in milliseconds
velocity = volume of the note (QuickTime synthesizer) 0-127
pano = panoramic Midi 0-127
vibrato = vibrato effect Midi 0-127
reverb = reverberation effect Midi 0-127

2. Command > PlayMidiChord(parameters : dito PlayMidiNote with pitch = array of 
notes)

3. Message > Trap USB signal from a musical keyboard by example with parameters 
midiChannel,pitch,on/off...

The latency must be < 40 miliseconds

This is a suggestion, I invite all RevTalkers to complete my proposal...

Bon souvenir de Paris
René

Le 16 mai 2010 à 16:46, Lynn Fredricks a écrit :

> Hi all,
> 
>> I am very interested in your requests, myself repeatedly 
>> mentioned the lack of Runrev about Audio.
> 
> We have engineers that could create audio externals. It's the sort of thing
> though we don't have immediate need for internally though. We could do
> something using a platform like kickstarter to do it. The question would be,
> what features and how much?
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Lynn Fredricks
> President
> Paradigma Software
> http://www.paradigmasoft.com
> 
> Valentina SQL Server: The Ultra-fast, Royalty Free Database Server 
> 
> 
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