Re: Getting an Audio Plugin Created ( was RE: [audio] Call for anupdated enhanced quicktime audio library ora small audiocomplementary library!)
I did not get any feedback from the bass guys yet. Maybe somebody else was more lucky? Cheers, Malte___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Getting an Audio Plugin Created ( was RE: [audio] Call for anupdated enhanced quicktime audio library ora small audiocomplementary library!)
On Jun 5, 2010, at 11:21 AM, Malte Pfaff-Brill wrote: I did not get any feedback from the bass guys yet. Maybe somebody else was more lucky? According to the BASS forum an iPhone version has been released. There have been quite a lot of requests for the iPhone version recently, so it's probably about time that it was made publicly available. Well, here it is... www.un4seen.com/stuff/bass24-iphone.zip (updated: 23 Apr '10) I wonder if having that already done might make it easier for them to at least make an OS X version or wrapper for us to use with Rev. sims ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Getting an Audio Plugin Created ( was RE: [audio] Call for anupdated enhanced quicktime audio library ora small audiocomplementary library!)
Is RTAS Pro Tools compatible only ? If yes, it is not a good standard. VST is best... René Le 20 mai 2010 à 20:19, stephen barncard a écrit : I would humbly suggest that RTAS be the standard for plugins ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Getting an Audio Plugin Created ( was RE: [audio] Call for anupdated enhanced quicktime audio library ora small audiocomplementary library!)
I was humbly stupid in my assumptions about RTAS. I should read more before I speak. The DAW world is littered with proprietary and security stumbling blocks similar to what we've encountered with Apple and the iPhone. A list of plugin formats is here (with definition links ): http://www.kvraudio.com/wiki/?id=Plug-in+Formats - APPLE ONLY - AU http://www.kvraudio.com/wiki/?id=Audio+Units (Audio Units) - AS http://www.kvraudio.com/wiki/?id=AS (Audio Suite) -OTHER - DX http://www.kvraudio.com/wiki/?id=DirectX (DirectX) - DSSI http://www.kvraudio.com/wiki/?id=DSSI (Disposable Soft Synth Interface) - LADSPA http://www.kvraudio.com/wiki/?id=LADSPA (Linux Audio Developer's Simple Plugin API) - MAS http://www.kvraudio.com/wiki/?id=MAS (MOTU Audio System) - MFX http://www.kvraudio.com/wiki/?id=MFX (MIDI FX) - ReWire http://www.kvraudio.com/wiki/?id=ReWire -PRO TOOLS ONLY - RTAS http://www.kvraudio.com/wiki/?id=RTAS (Real Time Audio Suite) - TDM http://www.kvraudio.com/wiki/?id=TDM (Time Domain Multiplex) - VST http://www.kvraudio.com/wiki/?id=VST (Virtual Studio Technology) my personal and opinionated opinion: VST is 'best' for PC users of Cubase and Nuendo. But I don't know any top recording professionals that use PCs or Cubase for audio. Some DP users out there on Mac. Granted, this is my myopic west coast view - but most of the pros are out on the edges of this country! As you get outside the big cities, and into the south and midwest, one will see more PC based audio systems, often because there is less local support for the hardware. (Good luck trying to buy a new mac at a Best Buy in Mobile, AL. They don't stock them. But there are no major studios or post houses there.) Some TV post guys use closed systems like Fairlight, Sadie and Radar and are PC based - usually with their own plugins. Nuendo is big with the Nashville guys, but on a Mac. You are correct about the Pro Tools lock-in on RTAS - it's cross-computer-platform though (Win-Mac) and Pro Tools is sorta the iPhone of audio DAWs - I'm imagining 60-70% market share - huge. Anybody who is into more than just recording themselves and needs to exchange files from many clients - will always transport their project in Pro Tools format. Finally, remember they are AVID - the god of professional video editing and their systems are made to seamlessly exchange information among their applications. If we were making something aimed at professionals, this would be the format to go for. I don't think we should bother with these kind of plugins. Too much crap to go through that has nothing to do with programming. We have to think differently about plugins. Or not bother. We small guys out here would be crushed by the complexity and expense of 1. Getting to be a licensee of RTAS or VST technology and those limitations 2. *Dealing with the extreme plugin authorization process if not installed* 3. Dealing with the iLok issues - probably a mandatory dongle 4. etc etc. Now going back to checking on FOSS solutions for plugins LADSPA, Rosegarden, ALSA, JACK, Audacity and try and understand what is the plugin situation with BASS. if any. (to be continued) On 23 May 2010 05:26, René Micout rene.mic...@numericable.com wrote: Is RTAS Pro Tools compatible only ? If yes, it is not a good standard. VST is best... René Le 20 mai 2010 à 20:19, stephen barncard a écrit : I would humbly suggest that RTAS be the standard for plugins -- - Stephen Barncard San Francisco ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Getting an Audio Plugin Created ( was RE: [audio] Call for anupdated enhanced quicktime audio library ora small audiocomplementary library!)
Some application VST compatible : Ableton Live Audacity ACID Pro Ardour 2 Cubase energyXT Fruityloops (FL Studio) Jeskola Buzz (Polac VST loader) Logic Pro WaveLab MadTracker It is good for me Logic Pro and it is not bad for Windows users René Le 23 mai 2010 à 19:47, stephen barncard a écrit : VST is 'best' for PC users of Cubase and Nuendo ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Getting an Audio Plugin Created ( was RE: [audio] Call for anupdated enhanced quicktime audio library ora small audiocomplementary library!)
I find their licensing terms really fine and I like their attitude too. This library really smells good to me. So I have emailed them too. Technically I have not yet used external libraries. As I understand it we have to create a runrev wrapper in the X code environment. I guess if one makes one, it can be used by any other, so long their usage sticks to the license. Since there is a free step and we should to test it out, if it was something easy to do for an externals specialist, it would be a great help to share this wrapper. (I took time to read the rev artice on how to use externals). Also, considering the technicalities of dealing with audio, I understand that runrev have not commited to it. Now a specific global agreement allowing runrev to incorporate the major most required functions would be great!! Special needs would be covered by an additional library with a direct license from BASS. Anybody in touch with the runrev team personnaly? As for sharing things over here, I 'll exchange the BASS wrapper for the workaround audio trick I found to record mp3 in a stack, as shared revOnline stacks! My position is to share technical tricks that should not pose problems (normally or ideally?) but that in practice lead to headaches... that one should not wish for your neigbhour!!! Stephen Barncard-4 wrote: I saw no wrong on the licensing. I like their attitude, their pricing model. Pretty reasonable, even cheap, if one would ask me. Look, this stuff is used for professional applications, is not easy to write, and the authors deserve payment. And they are not charging royalties. How could one expect quality, free, and supported to be in the same product? -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Getting-an-Audio-Plugin-Created-was-RE-audio-Call-for-anupdated-enhanced-quicktime-audio-library-ora-tp2226630p2227432.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Getting an Audio Plugin Created ( was RE: [audio] Call for anupdated enhanced quicktime audio library ora small audiocomplementary library!)
Hi all, Remember these externals that plays MOD music: For Mac OS X, Andre Garzia published in 2007: RevMikMod is an external for MacOS X Runtime Revolution. It is built upon on MikMod library which is licensed with LGPL, so this is freeware with source. This external uses Carbon Thread API, the music will play on another thread so there's no performance issue. You can play only one music at a time but you can change speed, tempo and volume. http://andregarzia.com/revmikmod.html http://www.mail-archive.com/use-revolution@lists.runrev.com/msg98790.html FMODforRev external published by Bill Griffin Tobias Opfermann in 2003, http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2003-October/025163.html Fmod is a music library that is free to use in freeware products, and costs varying amounts of money for other shareware and commercial uses. http://www.fmod.org/ has more info on that. (Not available from authors website, but probably some developers have these externals among their Backup files) Mac Version: http://www.igame3d.com/FMODforRev.sit PC Version: http://www.igame3d.com/FMODforRev.zip Alejandro -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Getting-an-Audio-Plugin-Created-was-RE-audio-Call-for-anupdated-enhanced-quicktime-audio-library-ora-tp2226750p2227435.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Getting an Audio Plugin Created ( was RE: [audio] Call for anupdated enhanced quicktime audio library ora small audiocomplementary library!)
Thanks for sharing. Looks like important piece of news. Looks great!! Had a look at the apps that use it, and at the forum. Next step is to download and test. If that ever works fine on mac and windows, whouaou! That is indeed what we need. I'll look into it and dig the use of c libraries in runrev, which so far I have nicely avoided. First one with feedback creates the BASS audio lib? -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/audio-Call-for-an-updated-enhanced-quicktime-audio-library-or-a-small-audio-complementary-library-tp2216458p2226055.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Getting an Audio Plugin Created ( was RE: [audio] Call for anupdated enhanced quicktime audio library ora small audiocomplementary library!)
I saw no wrong on the licensing. I like their attitude, their pricing model. Pretty reasonable, even cheap, if one would ask me. Look, this stuff is used for professional applications, is not easy to write, and the authors deserve payment. And they are not charging royalties. How could one expect quality, free, and supported to be in the same product? Anybody we contract will want to be paid far more than this. The fee is graduated for different groups, hobbyist and demo, shareware author, pro. This stuff is used for the core of applications. We shouldn't assume that these guys won't make deals - they might be into creating actual externals for Rev at a very reasonable price - who knows until you try. Did anyone email these folks? On 21 May 2010 12:49, Malte Pfaff-Brill revolut...@derbrill.de wrote: BASS has been around quite a while. Started as a mod playing library (the stuff you could hear on your amigas and ataris back in the day). It would be a very good candidate, however, their licensing model might be in the way: [quote] BASS is free for non-commercial use. If you are a non-commercial entity (eg. an individual) and you are not charging for your product, and the product has no other commercial purpose, then you can use BASS in it for free. Otherwise, you will require one of the following licences. Shareware licence: €100 The shareware licence allows the usage of BASS in an unlimited number of your shareware products, which must sell for no more than 40 Euros each. If you're an individual (not a corporation) making and selling your own software (and its price is within the limit), this is the licence for you. Single Commercial licence: €950 The single commercial licence allows the usage of BASS in a single commercial product. Unlimited Commercial licence: €2750 The unlimited commercial licence allows the usage of BASS in an unlimited number of your commercial products. This licence applies to a single site/location. note that all prices are quoted in Euros, but payment can also be made in several other currencies These licences are on a per-platform basis. There is a 40% reduction on each additional platform, eg. Win32 and OSX Shareware licences would cost €160 instead of €200. In all cases there are no royalties to pay and you can use future BASS updates without further cost. Reselling/sublicensing is not permitted. Your products must be end-user products, eg. not components used by other products. Please note that these licences only cover your own software, not the publishing of other's software. If you have got any questions, please get in touch. [/quote] All the best, Malte___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution -- - Stephen Barncard Back home in SF ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
re: Getting an Audio Plugin Created ( was RE: [audio] Call for anupdated enhanced quicktime audio library ora small audiocomplementary library!)
I've been following this thread and am very excited about the possibility of more audio functionality from within Rev. I am continually in need for these kinds of tools (mostly audio but also midi.) Here's my wishlist: - Play a sound file at a different speeds without changing pitch, while maintaining good sound quality. Some time shift apps sound pretty poor. There is a program called the Amazing Slow Downer which I think does a good job. - Fade ins/out. At present if all you need to do is fade from one song to another, two rev players works fine. But the splices I need to do are between two versions of the exact same place in the same song. I've been trying to do it with 2 rev players and there is usually a little bauble at the splice point. (Aside: I think I have a better formula for fades than the n // 100-n formula -- if anyone is interested, contact me.) One problem I'm experiencing is that when I play the same fade over and over, it sounds slightly different each time, telling me that set the currentime of player x is probably just not rock-solid enough for what I'm doing. So what would be great is a fading/splicing feature that is rock-solid and is a lot finer than 600 units per second. - With one stack I'm working on, I need to tap to the music to record the timing of the notes. This is classical music that often includes lots of fast notes. I've tried using the mouse or keyboard to do this, but the resulting data is inexact. (I think the computer is doing other tasks at the same time and doesn't give these mouseclicks or keydowns top priority.) Maybe what I need is some kind of midi input (I gather that is one of the great things about midi -- that it doesn't matter if the computer is downloading emails or looking for bluetooth devices -- it is going to record the time of those midi events perfectly.) But if midi features are added, it would be great if the user doesn't need to hook up a midi keyboard to record; for what I need to do, just the computer keyboard and mouse should be sufficient. - EQ, reverb, limiters/compressors would be great, and a way to add 3rd party plugins for those wanting higher quality. Thanks. Fred ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Getting an Audio Plugin Created ( was RE: [audio] Call for anupdated enhanced quicktime audio library ora small audiocomplementary library!)
Again I stress that if we try to put too much 'stuff' into this library (read: special effects) that it will distract from getting a solid foundation for us to build on. Rather than insisting on the inclusion of arbitrary, possibly lower-quality reverbs and time stretchers, I would rather see an ability to *use plugins of at least one type from the beginning* to narrow the focus of what really had to be made to get us on the air with better, cross-platform audio control in general. Midi is really a separate issue - and has anyone made a Quicktime Midi external? Is there 'more in there' that can be grokked out for both platforms? Trevor? Remember once one gets into the realm of special effects libraries; the good ones are going to cost money to license. Ultimately, there's no free lunch here. This stuff has all been done before and researched, it is not trivial coding. Using plugins would open up a much larger world for Rev as an AV builder (along with video enhancements in another project ). We wouldn't need the timeline feature right away either -- and I disagree with the other poster about their being no need for better metering as I propose: *f18 A metering object that deals with real time display of peak levels for x channels* All that is available for level metering currently is the recordLevel property, which has to be constantly polled while displaying in some kind of progress control. It serves no purpose but to show that 'something is happening' (which has been the basic concern of video guys for 60 years). It is not useful for setting levels, does not show stereo levels, and is not available when not in record (which is exactly the time when one needs it). Another use for the meter input would be as a ONE-BIT input -- easily accomplished with a simple noise source and contact closure. But I digress, except to say there's a lot more that can be accomplished here besides munging audio. All this 'stuff' would be also useful for* higher speed data collection*, something that Rev could be really good at. It would be fast - more than enough to detect accurate taps. I would humbly suggest that RTAS be the standard for plugins - many inexpensive one-man shops are turning out impressive plugs and selling for 0 to 200 dollars and in most cases are cross-platform. VST could be added later. I don't know if audio units would be worth it, unless the rich interface of the plugins can be shown. I've seen a lot of problems in that area. We need primitives for the Audio Object first. Fud for thought On 20 May 2010 07:52, Fred Moyer fmo...@aol.com wrote: I've been following this thread and am very excited about the possibility of more audio functionality from within Rev. I am continually in need for these kinds of tools (mostly audio but also midi.) Here's my wishlist: - Play a sound file at a different speeds without changing pitch, while maintaining good sound quality. Some time shift apps sound pretty poor. There is a program called the Amazing Slow Downer which I think does a good job. - Fade ins/out. At present if all you need to do is fade from one song to another, two rev players works fine. But the splices I need to do are between two versions of the exact same place in the same song. I've been trying to do it with 2 rev players and there is usually a little bauble at the splice point. (Aside: I think I have a better formula for fades than the n // 100-n formula -- if anyone is interested, contact me.) One problem I'm experiencing is that when I play the same fade over and over, it sounds slightly different each time, telling me that set the currentime of player x is probably just not rock-solid enough for what I'm doing. So what would be great is a fading/splicing feature that is rock-solid and is a lot finer than 600 units per second. - With one stack I'm working on, I need to tap to the music to record the timing of the notes. This is classical music that often includes lots of fast notes. I've tried using the mouse or keyboard to do this, but the resulting data is inexact. (I think the computer is doing other tasks at the same time and doesn't give these mouseclicks or keydowns top priority.) Maybe what I need is some kind of midi input (I gather that is one of the great things about midi -- that it doesn't matter if the computer is downloading emails or looking for bluetooth devices -- it is going to record the time of those midi events perfectly.) But if midi features are added, it would be great if the user doesn't need to hook up a midi keyboard to record; for what I need to do, just the computer keyboard and mouse should be sufficient. - EQ, reverb, limiters/compressors would be great, and a way to add 3rd party plugins for those wanting higher quality. Thanks. Fred ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
Re: Getting an Audio Plugin Created ( was RE: [audio] Call for anupdated enhanced quicktime audio library ora small audiocomplementary library!)
Surfing, I found this just now: http://www.un4seen.com/ It looks like it's exactly what we've been talking about. Is it real? sqb On 20 May 2010 11:19, stephen barncard stephenrevoluti...@barncard.comwrote: Again I stress that if we try to put too much 'stuff' into this library (read: special effects) that it will distract from getting a solid foundation for us to build on. Rather than insisting on the inclusion of arbitrary, possibly lower-quality reverbs and time stretchers, I would ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: Getting an Audio Plugin Created ( was RE: [audio] Call for anupdated enhanced quicktime audio library ora small audiocomplementary library!)
Hi all, f6 - Command PlayMidiChord(parameters : dito PlayMidiNote with pitch = array of notes) or chord name? (robert M) We need to get something off our plate first but, I wonder if MIDI is necessarily something to bundle in with everything else. Im sure we'd be looking at some available C/C++ libraries like we did with Franklin 3D, and if present that would make a difference. Best regards, Lynn Fredricks President Paradigma Software http://www.paradigmasoft.com Valentina SQL Server: The Ultra-fast, Royalty Free Database Server ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Getting an Audio Plugin Created ( was RE: [audio] Call for anupdated enhanced quicktime audio library ora small audiocomplementary library!)
Indeed the Midi functions are specific and can be a separate library ... Bon souvenir de Paris René Le 18 mai 2010 à 16:23, Lynn Fredricks a écrit : Hi all, f6 - Command PlayMidiChord(parameters : dito PlayMidiNote with pitch = array of notes) or chord name? (robert M) We need to get something off our plate first but, I wonder if MIDI is necessarily something to bundle in with everything else. Im sure we'd be looking at some available C/C++ libraries like we did with Franklin 3D, and if present that would make a difference. Best regards, Lynn Fredricks President Paradigma Software http://www.paradigmasoft.com Valentina SQL Server: The Ultra-fast, Royalty Free Database Server ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
