Re: Rodeo, revServer etc.
I am going to go buy this book today. On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 6:58 PM, Web Admin Himalayan Academy ka...@hindu.org wrote: I have Getting things done and also listen to Merlin Man at 43 folders, I also get David Allen's newsletter and *try* to implement as much as I can... changed my life... especially inbox zero -- though that is only part of the solution. I have David's GSD work flow map on my wall and look at it every day when I sit down to go at it. Sivakatirswami On 8/5/10 3:10 PM, Andre Garzia wrote: I should get one of those as well. My inbox has more than three thousand unread emails... Sent from my iPad On Aug 5, 2010, at 9:45 PM, Peter W A Woodpeterwaw...@gmail.com wrote: On 6 Aug 2010, at 01:17, J. Landman Gay wrote: I know for a fact that at least one of our major players has an inbox that goes on practically to infinity, and he's unlikely to even notice anything you send. I think that buying him a copy of David Allen's Getting Things Done and taking his computers away from him for a day so that he will read it would be one of the best investments RunRev could make at this time. In fact, if RunRev can get him to read it, I'll happily buy the book for him. Regards Peter___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution -- Do all things with love ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Rodeo, revServer etc.
FWIW There is a marvelous old book around, 40 years old in fact, The Management of Time by James T. McCay. It appears there are only about 60 copies left on Amazon. It mandatory reading given to use by our spiritual master. If you wanted a dynamic insight into personal management in just 190 pages without all the hype of the modern management movement, ( which is marvelous in it's own way) get it now! Good as gold today as it was back then. A key point McCay makes in the first chapter is that the primary leak in our time management is poor communications, and that it is almost an inevitability, inherent in life itself. This whole thing with Jerry and Sarah and RunRev is a classic case. McCay's contention is that we *must always!* take into account the following principles, and if we do not it will cost us dearly on many levels. 1) What I say or write is probably not very close to what I actually think or actually feel. 2) What the other person actually hears or reads is not going to be what I said or wrote. 3) How the person cognizes what she heard or read is going to be different from what she thought she heard 4) conversely, you need to be humble enough to admit that what you cognize from what someone writes or said to you, is probably not exactly what they said, and that you need to factor into the relationship #1 above: that what she said or wrote to you was inevitably not the fullness of what they thought or felt. ergo it's all my fault If you bear these principles in mind run time and keep a feedback loop going with the other person, then you a) get true communications b) efficient management (it takes less time to get things done because everyone understand everyone else from the get go) c) much more positive inter-personal relationships. I would add to this: and avoid possibly serious strategic blunders by taking decisions based on the inherently flawed communications, both business decisions as well as decisions about relationships. skts On 8/5/10 8:16 AM, Heather Nagey wrote: Good heavens. I go away for a week and a war breaks out! I do apologise, I will never take another holiday! Sarah, you are not banned. What a crazy idea. I might suggest that this whole saga is a sad illustration of my mantra - if you want to know the answer to a question, write to support - supp...@runrev.com. Do not assume that posting an issue on the use-list will get you an answer. Do not assume that emailing a specific engineer will get you an answer - that engineer might not be in a position to reply. Do not assume that a specific member of the user community knows the correct answer. Do not email my personal email address, I might be away. Support is manned, even when I am on holiday. In fact, Andre did finally email support to ask about the revServer limits, and he did get a reply. Now perhaps we can all get back to discussing Rev, in all its forms, and how to get the best use out of it. In a friendly, non-confrontational manner if at all possible! Warm Regards to all Heather Heather Nagey Customer Services Manager http://www.runrev.com/ RunRev - Software construction for everyone follow me on twitter http://www.twitter.com/lainopik ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Rodeo, revServer etc.
On 06/08/2010 01:45, Peter W A Wood peterwaw...@gmail.com wrote: I know for a fact that at least one of our major players has an inbox that goes on practically to infinity, and he's unlikely to even notice anything you send. I think that buying him a copy of David Allen's Getting Things Done and taking his computers away from him for a day so that he will read it would be one of the best investments RunRev could make at this time. In fact, if RunRev can get him to read it, I'll happily buy the book for him. Now that is just a fantastic book - I couldn't recommend it more strongly for anyone dealing with a big inbox and workload as long as your arm. I read it a few months ago and it has really helped me get more efficient. Wish I'd discovered it years back. There are a couple of other people here who could benefit from it, but all in good time - right now we need code written :) Kind regards, Kevin Kevin Miller ~ ke...@runrev.com ~ http://www.runrev.com/ RunRev - Software construction for everyone ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Rodeo, revServer etc.
I have Getting things done and also listen to Merlin Man at 43 folders, I also get David Allen's newsletter and *try* to implement as much as I can... changed my life... especially inbox zero -- though that is only part of the solution. I have David's GSD work flow map on my wall and look at it every day when I sit down to go at it. Sivakatirswami On 8/5/10 3:10 PM, Andre Garzia wrote: I should get one of those as well. My inbox has more than three thousand unread emails... Sent from my iPad On Aug 5, 2010, at 9:45 PM, Peter W A Woodpeterwaw...@gmail.com wrote: On 6 Aug 2010, at 01:17, J. Landman Gay wrote: I know for a fact that at least one of our major players has an inbox that goes on practically to infinity, and he's unlikely to even notice anything you send. I think that buying him a copy of David Allen's Getting Things Done and taking his computers away from him for a day so that he will read it would be one of the best investments RunRev could make at this time. In fact, if RunRev can get him to read it, I'll happily buy the book for him. Regards Peter___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Rodeo, revServer etc.
Sarah, Let me say in just some words. I just hope you will be back to this community witch always got so much from your always incredible fine work and human generosity as soon as possible. Until that, tu vas me manquer. Prends soin de toi. Reviens vite. Kind Regards, Pierre PS : Time to time, i had to go over sad difficultly trackables glichies or misconfigurations along i was working on one n-tier project or an other. To solve them, the best way to go went always to entierly clone the incrimined apps on the development box, in localhost mode : Apache, PHP, Rev, the SQL backend, etc... This solution is, in practice, always very helpfull when we need to get hands back on a special case problem and n-tier apps are always relying on special cases solutions, is'nt ;-) Le 5 août 2010 à 03:47, Chipp Walters a écrit : Sarah, It would be so sad to see you go. You have been a well respected and most helpful community member for so long. And, I'm especially sorry to see you go in such a sad way. I understand that you and Jerry have ventured into some new uncharted waters and that architecting server apps while starting a brand new company can be a daunting task for anyone. Heck, Chris and I have helped Jerry create architectures for multiple-tier server applications for a number of his clients in the past, and it's never an easy task. And, truth be known, I don't know any more than either of you when it comes to the hard core details of what's going on at those servers AND that's why I have people like Chris and Andre and Pierre and this list who help steer me clear of some of the potholes you guys evidently stepped into on this project. Still, my understanding is that Jerry is in weekly contact with Kevin via RevSelect, so I suspect communication isn't a HUGE problem, and you all have done a marvelous job at promoting your application here on the use-list, so i'll chalk up the last minute parting cheap shots toward Rev to an overall frustration at this whole situation. I get it you are upset. The fact you can't reproduce your problems may be due to many different issues, as both Andre and Kevin point out. Certainly trying to debug these issues in a shared hosting environment didn't simplify things. But how were you to know? I think Rev should have probably taken a more active role in bug and recipe hunting, especially since there are so many factors and given the limited expertise. But there are ways to test these things and to produce a recipe, and that is all I was saying. Having this discussion here after publicly posting on your blog to your users, most of whom follow this list should be no surprise. We all want to know how real the problem is and why it happens. You have been and are an extremely valuable resource to this community and will be sorely missed if you go. I've enjoyed working with you on projects in the past and have always found you to be the highest in terms of integrity and professionalism. I would encourage you to reconsider leaving. On Wednesday, August 4, 2010, Sarah Reichelt sarah.reich...@gmail.com wrote: Hi All, Kevin has given his point of view over Rodeo and revServer, and then forbidden us to comment, leaving us without the right of reply. Of course it is his list and he is quite at liberty to ban whoever he chooses, and if the matter had ended there, I would have let it slide. Unfortunately, discussion has continued and has expanded to a direct and personal attack on Jerry, which by association is an attack on me. So I have decided, reluctantly, to ignore Kevin's instructions and post my thoughts on the issue. I realise this will lead to my removal from the list, but that is a consequence that I am prepared to accept. Before I go, I would like to say goodbye and thank you to everyone here. I have thoroughly enjoyed most of the interactions on this list and there are many of you here that I regard as real friends, despite never having met you in person. There are too many of you to mention individually, but you know who you are. Now on to revServer: as soon as I heard about revServer, I was incredibly excited. I bought it as soon as it was released and I converted my entire web site to run using irev scripts. RunRev even used my examples page in their promotional mail outs, so I think everyone can see that I am a great supporter. The advertising material announced Blistering Performance which unfortunately never eventuated. Even on my modest web pages, often a page would only half-load. I frequently had to tell people just to give it a minute and the data came through in the end. However for my own web site, this was not really a problem. I think nobody will dispute that the On-Rev client is a big disappointment. It's primary feature was the debugging, but as soon as I added a new domain to my site, this stopped working for me. Heather was unable to find out why and nearly a year
Re: Rodeo, revServer etc.
On 05/08/2010 01:48, Sarah Reichelt sarah.reich...@gmail.com wrote: Kevin has given his point of view over Rodeo and revServer, and then forbidden us to comment, leaving us without the right of reply. Of course it is his list and he is quite at liberty to ban whoever he chooses, and if the matter had ended there, I would have let it slide. Unfortunately, discussion has continued and has expanded to a direct and personal attack on Jerry, which by association is an attack on me. So I have decided, reluctantly, to ignore Kevin's instructions and post my thoughts on the issue. I realise this will lead to my removal from the list, but that is a consequence that I am prepared to accept. Before I go, I would like to say goodbye and thank you to everyone here. I have thoroughly enjoyed most of the interactions on this list and there are many of you here that I regard as real friends, despite never having met you in person. There are too many of you to mention individually, but you know who you are. I don't think we need to be quite so dramatic. I asked you not to discuss Rodeo because it no longer has anything to do with Rev and because you started to attack Rev as a method of promoting it. I'm sorry you saw my response as a personal attack, it wasn't. You and Jerry are both welcome on this list. As I've said I wish you guys all the best, I quite truly do. Chipp has repeatedly called on us to provide recipes for our problems, but this is not really possible. The first problem is the server timeout, which has been stated by RunRev so does not require any recipe. The second problem is the varying response times and as the same CGI will produce widely varying response times, I am unable to provide more of a recipe than that, as already reported to Kevin and confirmed by Mark's tests. Well those tests showed that PHP is the same, and indeed we would expect the same results on any shared server environment with a variety of technologies. In order to determine if there was something more going on, I asked for a very simple piece of logging - this is what I wrote to Jerry: One way to find out if it is something the script is doing is to measure the execution time of the whole irev script (i.e. use the long seconds at start, and append to a log file at the end). If, after observing a latency issue, there are 'spikes' in this measurement it means that the culprit is a side-effect of the script, rather than the startup time of the script. That's all we needed to continue to investigate it. Andre's tests have now demonstrated that the timeout issue is in the On-Rev server and not in revServer itself. This is excellent news, and I would still recommend revServer to anyone. But we were unable to get an answer from anyone at RunRev on this subject This is just patently untrue. You got a response from the CEO. I wrote to Jerry on 22nd of June at 16:38 with that logging request I pasted above, as part of an ongoing response to this issue and that was the last I heard. You could have added that to your code, created a logging text file and sent us the contents. I suspect with that, and possibly a couple of subsequent tests, the issue would have been identified weeks ago. Part of the problem here is that as RunRev customers, we get very little communication from RunRev. I've already commented and agreed on this. But in your specific case, again its just untrue. I've been available to Jerry throughout this entire process. Over the past couple of years, until very recently, we've typically had a Skype every week. I have a regular slot set aside in my calendar on a Monday evening at 7:30PM. I know Heather has been very responsive too. I'm not sure what else you could have asked for. It is good to read Kevin's plans for better bug reporting, better communication, more products etc., but those of us who have been here for a while have heard all this before. You know, its easy when things are not going well to look at it and say that everything isn't working or hasn't worked. But I don't think that's a realistic way to view things. We've had many successes over the years and many times when our customers have been ecstatic. You're starting out on your own journey now and I'm sure you'll find aspects of it more challenging than you expect. I doubt you'll make the same mistakes that I do as we are very different people, you'll find your own ways to get in a tangle like every new business out there :) But I will not succumb to the its all bad and you can't fix it mantra any more than you should. That's just not a realistic way of looking at things. Finally, a comment on this list itself. I know this is a long post, but it is my last one, so I have to get everything in. Some people on this list have a habit of shooting the messenger. Anyone who dares to suggest that there is anything less that perfect about RunRev is shouted down, and most of them just leave instead of being converted.
Re: Rodeo, revServer etc.
On 5 August 2010 04:20, Andre Garzia an...@andregarzia.com wrote: People sometimes gets very passionated, now, if we could channel that passion into FREE OPEN SOURCE LIBRARY DEVELOPMENT and TESTING for Rev, it would be great and better than some threads that been here latelly. I won't say I will miss you guys because I know you are not leaving... :-) I second that Sarah - in fact I'd go so far as to say you should consider yourself banned from leaving :) I'm going (to try) to stay out of debate on these issues, except to say I am broadly sympathetic to the problems that you have expressed and feel that both you and Jerry deserve a big thumbs up for your rational calm and positive contributions on the subject in the face of distinctly defensive replies, which you could easily have been tempted to reply to more flamishly. On the positive, I'd second Andre's comment above. I too feel that a community run open source project and documentation resource, would not only provide a productive avenue for many of these issues to be channelled, but go a long way to addressing some of the technical issues raised. It would also importantly help to address the sense of a void created by the issues faced by RunRev currently, and compounded in my view by the approach to marketing and community that is being followed presently. Guys we can get better contributions from the community to help RunRev through this patch! Another positive note! The best things come from working through hard times - I think RunRev can and will come out of this stronger. But not without the community and people like Jerry and Sarah passionately on board. I think the moves to open source the externals is a great sign, I am hopeful about the longer term implications with regard to more open and co-development strategies being pursued on the Linux and Android platforms (it just makes sense), and I am sure that Kevin and RunRev are actively looking at ways to improve these things. So how about a regular monthly online conference - working on FREE OPEN SOURCE LIBRARY DEVELOPMENT and TESTING for Rev, leading up to a constructive community show at next years RunRev live event? Say the first Tuesday of each month? ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Rodeo, revServer etc.
Sarah, I suspect the requests for you and Jerry to stay around won't do much good. It's clear you both are most hurt and outraged by this rabble, and besides, you all have much work to do! Perhaps it might be helpful to look at this from a different point of view? One might say there seems to be a convenient correlation between the claims of a buggy RevServer, the announcement RODEO now creates standalones on the Mac (thus clearly in defiance of Rev's license policy), and the abrupt switch to PHP. In fact, one might suspect they go hand in hand, as the posts are the one and the same. http://rodeoapps.posterous.com/24666755 One can certainly understand the business reason for the change to PHP. It makes perfect sense and is the only way around the license issue. It's too bad RunRev has been an unknowing willing participant in helping fund, provide customers for, publicize, and launch a direct competitor. Still, one can applaud the skill at how deftly this has all come about-- heck RODEO even had a newly branded website up the exact same day as the post. Perfect timing.___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Rodeo, revServer etc.
Gawd! Enough already! Bob On Aug 5, 2010, at 4:04 AM, Chipp Walters wrote: Sarah, I suspect the requests for you and Jerry to stay around won't do much good. It's clear you both are most hurt and outraged by this rabble, and besides, you all have much work to do! Perhaps it might be helpful to look at this from a different point of view? One might say there seems to be a convenient correlation between the claims of a buggy RevServer, the announcement RODEO now creates standalones on the Mac (thus clearly in defiance of Rev's license policy), and the abrupt switch to PHP. In fact, one might suspect they go hand in hand, as the posts are the one and the same. http://rodeoapps.posterous.com/24666755 One can certainly understand the business reason for the change to PHP. It makes perfect sense and is the only way around the license issue. It's too bad RunRev has been an unknowing willing participant in helping fund, provide customers for, publicize, and launch a direct competitor. Still, one can applaud the skill at how deftly this has all come about-- heck RODEO even had a newly branded website up the exact same day as the post. Perfect timing.___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Rodeo, revServer etc.
On 8/5/10 6:04 AM, Chipp Walters wrote: http://rodeoapps.posterous.com/24666755 I just went over to read that page, and it made me sad. It looks like the RR is uncommuncative sentiment is based at least partly on the fact that Andrew sent emails directly to Oliver privately, and Ollie did not respond. The reason he didn't respond is because by that time he was no longer with the company -- he was one of the engineers who left. Any email sent directly to Ollie would have gone into oblivion. No one would have seen it. If anyone writes to an engineer privately and does not get a response, I hope you'll resend your email to the support queue, where RR is diligent in following up with the appropriate people. In fact, that's usually the best way to get a response, because I know for a fact that at least one of our major players has an inbox that goes on practically to infinity, and he's unlikely to even notice anything you send. If this whole mess has happened because of that misunderstanding, it's very sad indeed. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Rodeo, revServer etc.
On 8/5/10 4:44 AM, Kevin Miller wrote: On 05/08/2010 01:48, Sarah Reicheltsarah.reich...@gmail.com wrote: Andre's tests have now demonstrated that the timeout issue is in the On-Rev server and not in revServer itself. This is excellent news, and I would still recommend revServer to anyone. But we were unable to get an answer from anyone at RunRev on this subject This is just patently untrue. Sarah, please see my other post -- Ollie was gone by the time Andrew wrote to him. No one saw the email. I'm feeling pretty bad about all this, it sounds like a huge misunderstanding. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Rodeo, revServer etc.
Good heavens. I go away for a week and a war breaks out! I do apologise, I will never take another holiday! Sarah, you are not banned. What a crazy idea. I might suggest that this whole saga is a sad illustration of my mantra - if you want to know the answer to a question, write to support - supp...@runrev.com. Do not assume that posting an issue on the use-list will get you an answer. Do not assume that emailing a specific engineer will get you an answer - that engineer might not be in a position to reply. Do not assume that a specific member of the user community knows the correct answer. Do not email my personal email address, I might be away. Support is manned, even when I am on holiday. In fact, Andre did finally email support to ask about the revServer limits, and he did get a reply. Now perhaps we can all get back to discussing Rev, in all its forms, and how to get the best use out of it. In a friendly, non- confrontational manner if at all possible! Warm Regards to all Heather Heather Nagey Customer Services Manager http://www.runrev.com/ RunRev - Software construction for everyone follow me on twitter http://www.twitter.com/lainopik ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Rodeo, revServer etc.
Heather, As usual, the men have made a mess of everything. Mike --- On Thu, 8/5/10, Heather Nagey heat...@runrev.com wrote: From: Heather Nagey heat...@runrev.com Subject: Re: Rodeo, revServer etc. To: How to use Revolution use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Date: Thursday, August 5, 2010, 1:16 PM Good heavens. I go away for a week and a war breaks out! I do apologise, I will never take another holiday! Sarah, you are not banned. What a crazy idea. I might suggest that this whole saga is a sad illustration of my mantra - if you want to know the answer to a question, write to support - supp...@runrev.com. Do not assume that posting an issue on the use-list will get you an answer. Do not assume that emailing a specific engineer will get you an answer - that engineer might not be in a position to reply. Do not assume that a specific member of the user community knows the correct answer. Do not email my personal email address, I might be away. Support is manned, even when I am on holiday. In fact, Andre did finally email support to ask about the revServer limits, and he did get a reply. Now perhaps we can all get back to discussing Rev, in all its forms, and how to get the best use out of it. In a friendly, non-confrontational manner if at all possible! Warm Regards to all Heather Heather Nagey Customer Services Manager http://www.runrev.com/ RunRev - Software construction for everyone follow me on twitter http://www.twitter.com/lainopik ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Rodeo, revServer etc.
Hi All, I would like to thank people for the many messages of support and encouragement I have received, both on and off-list. It seems to have been decided that my post was not worthy of banishment, so I'm still here, although after the recent threads, I will confine myself to lurking for a while, to give myself time to recover. All the best, Sarah ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Rodeo, revServer etc.
On 6 Aug 2010, at 01:17, J. Landman Gay wrote: I know for a fact that at least one of our major players has an inbox that goes on practically to infinity, and he's unlikely to even notice anything you send. I think that buying him a copy of David Allen's Getting Things Done and taking his computers away from him for a day so that he will read it would be one of the best investments RunRev could make at this time. In fact, if RunRev can get him to read it, I'll happily buy the book for him. Regards Peter___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Rodeo, revServer etc.
I should get one of those as well. My inbox has more than three thousand unread emails... Sent from my iPad On Aug 5, 2010, at 9:45 PM, Peter W A Wood peterwaw...@gmail.com wrote: On 6 Aug 2010, at 01:17, J. Landman Gay wrote: I know for a fact that at least one of our major players has an inbox that goes on practically to infinity, and he's unlikely to even notice anything you send. I think that buying him a copy of David Allen's Getting Things Done and taking his computers away from him for a day so that he will read it would be one of the best investments RunRev could make at this time. In fact, if RunRev can get him to read it, I'll happily buy the book for him. Regards Peter___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Rodeo, revServer etc.
On 8/5/10 7:45 PM, Peter W A Wood wrote: On 6 Aug 2010, at 01:17, J. Landman Gay wrote: I know for a fact that at least one of our major players has an inbox that goes on practically to infinity, and he's unlikely to even notice anything you send. I think that buying him a copy of David Allen's Getting Things Done and taking his computers away from him for a day so that he will read it would be one of the best investments RunRev could make at this time. In fact, if RunRev can get him to read it, I'll happily buy the book for him. I am fairly certain that if you take his computer away for even a few hours, his head will implode. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Rodeo, revServer etc.
On 8/5/10 8:33 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: On 8/5/10 7:45 PM, Peter W A Wood wrote: On 6 Aug 2010, at 01:17, J. Landman Gay wrote: I know for a fact that at least one of our major players has an inbox that goes on practically to infinity, and he's unlikely to even notice anything you send. I think that buying him a copy of David Allen's Getting Things Done and taking his computers away from him for a day so that he will read it would be one of the best investments RunRev could make at this time. In fact, if RunRev can get him to read it, I'll happily buy the book for him. I am fairly certain that if you take his computer away for even a few hours, his head will implode. On second thought, he might read it if there's a translation available in another language. Is there one in C? -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Rodeo, revServer etc.
On 6 Aug 2010, at 09:33, J. Landman Gay wrote: I am fairly certain that if you take his computer away for even a few hours, his head will implode. A neural de-tox. Perfect! ;-) Peter___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Rodeo, revServer etc.
Sent from my iPad On Aug 4, 2010, at 7:48 PM, Sarah Reichelt sarah.reich...@gmail.com wrote: ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Rodeo, revServer etc.
Well, I for one would hate to see you banned from the list, Sarah. I've always found your posts to be extremely helpful, even if they ARE often way, way over my head. Hoping to see you continue on here... Marian Sent from my iPad On Aug 4, 2010, at 7:48 PM, Sarah Reichelt sarah.reich...@gmail.com wrote: ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Rodeo, revServer etc.
Sarah, It would be so sad to see you go. You have been a well respected and most helpful community member for so long. And, I'm especially sorry to see you go in such a sad way. I understand that you and Jerry have ventured into some new uncharted waters and that architecting server apps while starting a brand new company can be a daunting task for anyone. Heck, Chris and I have helped Jerry create architectures for multiple-tier server applications for a number of his clients in the past, and it's never an easy task. And, truth be known, I don't know any more than either of you when it comes to the hard core details of what's going on at those servers AND that's why I have people like Chris and Andre and Pierre and this list who help steer me clear of some of the potholes you guys evidently stepped into on this project. Still, my understanding is that Jerry is in weekly contact with Kevin via RevSelect, so I suspect communication isn't a HUGE problem, and you all have done a marvelous job at promoting your application here on the use-list, so i'll chalk up the last minute parting cheap shots toward Rev to an overall frustration at this whole situation. I get it you are upset. The fact you can't reproduce your problems may be due to many different issues, as both Andre and Kevin point out. Certainly trying to debug these issues in a shared hosting environment didn't simplify things. But how were you to know? I think Rev should have probably taken a more active role in bug and recipe hunting, especially since there are so many factors and given the limited expertise. But there are ways to test these things and to produce a recipe, and that is all I was saying. Having this discussion here after publicly posting on your blog to your users, most of whom follow this list should be no surprise. We all want to know how real the problem is and why it happens. You have been and are an extremely valuable resource to this community and will be sorely missed if you go. I've enjoyed working with you on projects in the past and have always found you to be the highest in terms of integrity and professionalism. I would encourage you to reconsider leaving. On Wednesday, August 4, 2010, Sarah Reichelt sarah.reich...@gmail.com wrote: Hi All, Kevin has given his point of view over Rodeo and revServer, and then forbidden us to comment, leaving us without the right of reply. Of course it is his list and he is quite at liberty to ban whoever he chooses, and if the matter had ended there, I would have let it slide. Unfortunately, discussion has continued and has expanded to a direct and personal attack on Jerry, which by association is an attack on me. So I have decided, reluctantly, to ignore Kevin's instructions and post my thoughts on the issue. I realise this will lead to my removal from the list, but that is a consequence that I am prepared to accept. Before I go, I would like to say goodbye and thank you to everyone here. I have thoroughly enjoyed most of the interactions on this list and there are many of you here that I regard as real friends, despite never having met you in person. There are too many of you to mention individually, but you know who you are. Now on to revServer: as soon as I heard about revServer, I was incredibly excited. I bought it as soon as it was released and I converted my entire web site to run using irev scripts. RunRev even used my examples page in their promotional mail outs, so I think everyone can see that I am a great supporter. The advertising material announced Blistering Performance which unfortunately never eventuated. Even on my modest web pages, often a page would only half-load. I frequently had to tell people just to give it a minute and the data came through in the end. However for my own web site, this was not really a problem. I think nobody will dispute that the On-Rev client is a big disappointment. It's primary feature was the debugging, but as soon as I added a new domain to my site, this stopped working for me. Heather was unable to find out why and nearly a year later, I am still waiting for the engineer to get back to me as promised. However the On-Rev client is a completely separate application and using revServer does not require it. I switched to using other apps to do my editing and file transfers and I debug using log files. CGIs are a different matter. I assume that many people on this list have done what I have done and written CGIs that are called from Rev stacks. These caused problems as the default socket timeout in Revolution is 10 seconds. Many times, this is not enough time to get an answer back from the On-Rev servers, even for a very simple CGI. So for anyone in this situation, it is essential to increase the socketTimeoutInterval before calling an On-Rev CGI. Before I got into more intensive use of the On-Rev servers, other people ran into the server's timeout limits. These were confirmed by Oliver from
Re: Rodeo, revServer etc.
On 8/4/10 7:48 PM, Sarah Reichelt wrote: Since I anticipate my imminent removal from this list, Sarah, don't be silly, of course you won't be banned! And I hope you don't disappear either, you're one of our greatest assets. I know of only three people who have been permanently banned in the last 10 years, and none of those cases were for criticisms they made on-list. (One was for physical harrassment, for example.) I think we need to make a distinction between discussing Rodeo features and plans, which belong on its dedicated list, and discussing on-rev performance, which is very appropriate here. Your experiences are valuable and I see nothing wrong with you replying and describing them. Hearing both sides is always the best course. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Rodeo, revServer etc.
On Wed, Aug 4, 2010 at 10:54 PM, J. Landman Gay jac...@hyperactivesw.comwrote: On 8/4/10 7:48 PM, Sarah Reichelt wrote: Since I anticipate my imminent removal from this list, err Sarah, this will not happen, this is not some school club where you get banned for disagreeing with the president (oh... I just also described the Brazilian Goverment). RevServer still not ready, there are many things to polish and your experience and Jerrys is a good thing. As I've tested, most probably your problems were due to the virtualization stacks or something similar. Anyway, that matter is settled, you guys moved on into some other technology. World will not end, I will still get my beloved feature fridays for tRev and I will still use your stacks now and the future ones I am sure you will build. Arguments here tend to turn into heat waves and mudslinging but we're all above this. We're all friends and professionals (I am more friendly than professional) I am doing lots of tests and articles on RevServer believe me, if there are problems with the engine, I am sure to find them and if I have just one quality or skill, it is being quite good at diagnosing why software explodes into my face. I will run profilers, debuggers, hire mediums, drink copious amounts of tea while shouting, wave my art of programming books in front of the computer shouting: The power of Knuth compels you! but I will find it and be able to get a recipe. In the following months our engine will be better if not by tracking down any anomalies then due to our increased understanding of how to better use it. People tend to take sides. There are no sides, we're all together here, some teams faced troubles, others did not, we all share and in the end, I make the best jokes, oops, thats not how the phrase was supposed to end but anyway, in the end, it is just another day. Technologies come and go, we use what we can. I work with PHP daily, you will survive (but loose some sanity points due to variables needing an $). There are times when I am working with PHP that I just wish my Revolution engine back, there are times with RevServer that I wish I could transmogrify a ton of PHP extensions into RevTalk. All techologies have shortcomings (Except for LISP which is perfect and perl which is a shortcomming and not a language), you use what you have, there's no moral judgement in software choices. You have your customers and decisions to make, no one runs your teams for you. Moving Rodeo to PHP will deny its presence here on the use-list since it is not related to Rev anymore but those interested in Rodeo will go to Rodeo list and be fine. We'll all still use Rev for other tasks. People sometimes gets very passionated, now, if we could channel that passion into FREE OPEN SOURCE LIBRARY DEVELOPMENT and TESTING for Rev, it would be great and better than some threads that been here latelly. I won't say I will miss you guys because I know you are not leaving... :-) Sarah, don't be silly, of course you won't be banned! And I hope you don't disappear either, you're one of our greatest assets. I know of only three people who have been permanently banned in the last 10 years, and none of those cases were for criticisms they made on-list. (One was for physical harrassment, for example.) I think we need to make a distinction between discussing Rodeo features and plans, which belong on its dedicated list, and discussing on-rev performance, which is very appropriate here. Your experiences are valuable and I see nothing wrong with you replying and describing them. Hearing both sides is always the best course. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution -- http://www.andregarzia.com All We Do Is Code. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Rodeo, revServer etc.
On Wed, Aug 4, 2010 at 9:20 PM, Andre Garzia an...@andregarzia.com wrote: The power of Knuth compels you! http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution I literally fell out of my chair! Jeff M. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Rodeo, revServer etc.
On Aug 5, 2010, at 4:20 AM, Andre Garzia wrote: we're all together here, I won't say I will miss you guys because I know you are not leaving... :-) Hey Sarah, This List has Life, and you are one of the most alive persons around. I'm looking forward to learning more from you here. Life is Good. CU, sims ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Rodeo, revServer etc.
On 8/4/10 10:22 PM, Jeff Massung wrote: On Wed, Aug 4, 2010 at 9:20 PM, Andre Garziaan...@andregarzia.com wrote: The power of Knuth compels you! I literally fell out of my chair! We'd be so grim without Andre. :) Andre, where's that link to your compiler story? -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
