Re: System menus
Buongiorno Paul, Someone knows if the new Rev. 1.7 give some new chance to create a system menu on Mac Os X (the menus visible by all applications, as MenuCalendarClock, MenuMeters, iKey, etc.)? sorry, I'm afraid that is not possible with Rev :-/ Regards Klaus Major [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.major-k.de ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: System menus
Klaus Major wrote: Buongiorno Paul, Someone knows if the new Rev. 1.7 give some new chance to create a system menu on Mac Os X (the menus visible by all applications, as MenuCalendarClock, MenuMeters, iKey, etc.)? sorry, I'm afraid that is not possible with Rev :-/ It may be worth noting that there is no sanctioned API for that, as Apple considers those menus to be exclusively for their own use: Reserved for use by Apple, the right side of the menu bar may contain items that provide feedback on and access to certain hardware or network settings. http://developer.apple.com/documentation/UserExperience/Conceptual/OSXHIGuidelines/XHIGMenus/chapter_16_section_4.html Third-party programs which make such menus for themselves do so by violating Apple's design mandate and effectively hacking the system. -- Richard Gaskin Managing Editor, revJournal ___ Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: System menus
On Feb 20, 2006, at 9:22 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: Klaus Major wrote: Buongiorno Paul, Someone knows if the new Rev. 1.7 give some new chance to create a system menu on Mac Os X (the menus visible by all applications, as MenuCalendarClock, MenuMeters, iKey, etc.)? sorry, I'm afraid that is not possible with Rev :-/ It may be worth noting that there is no sanctioned API for that, as Apple considers those menus to be exclusively for their own use: Reserved for use by Apple, the right side of the menu bar may contain items that provide feedback on and access to certain hardware or network settings. http://developer.apple.com/documentation/UserExperience/Conceptual/ OSXHIGuidelines/XHIGMenus/chapter_16_section_4.html Third-party programs which make such menus for themselves do so by violating Apple's design mandate and effectively hacking the system. As already said, Rev does not provide such facilities so this is getting off-topic but the info here is not really correct. While it is true that there is no Apple sanctioned API for specifically Menu Bar Extras as referred to in the HIG material quoted above, Cocoa does provide an Apple sanctioned public API for the creation of Status Items (NSStatusItem). These are sort of weaker Menu Bar Extras (weaker in that the underlying application needs to be running for them to appear and you can't reorder them like you can Extras) but they are there regardless of which app is in front and they have the advantage that they can't bring the system down either. While a public API, Apple still discourages their use unless there is no alternative (say a Dock menu), ostensibly to save menu bar real estate. (I think it's also to avoid creating the nightmare of a Windows system tray.) The point is that not every third party program that is putting up one of these menus is hacking the system. I don't like these things so I don't have many up there but I note that Kensington's MouseWorks uses status items, not menu bar extras. The only way I could tell (short of looking at what processes are running) was to try to Cmd-drag the icon. Spence James P. Spencer Rochester, MN [EMAIL PROTECTED] Badges?? We don't need no stinkin badges! ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: System menus
As always, I think freedom is beautiful; and it would be also beautiful to have the possibility of using the full potential of a programming language brilliant as Revolution. On other hands, hacking the system may be a way to increase its power; I don't think Apple really feel hurt by this, considering that all the applications I mentioned before are advertised by Apple itself on Apple's official site. Take a look at: http://guide.apple.com/action.lasso?-database=macosguide-layout=cgi_detail; -response=/ussearch/detail.htmlprodkey=66163-search you will find a beautiful Apple's page dedicated to the hackers of MenuCalendarClock. If a new program is useful and good, Macintosh users are satisfied and Apple is happy too (in spite of the menubar has been violated...). on 20-02-2006 16:22, Richard Gaskin at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It may be worth noting that there is no sanctioned API for that, as Apple considers those menus to be exclusively for their own use: Reserved for use by Apple, the right side of the menu bar may contain items that provide feedback on and access to certain hardware or network settings. http://developer.apple.com/documentation/UserExperience/Conceptual/OSXHIGuide lines/XHIGMenus/chapter_16_section_4.html Third-party programs which make such menus for themselves do so by violating Apple's design mandate and effectively hacking the system. -- Richard Gaskin Managing Editor, revJournal ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: System menus
James Spencer wrote: On Feb 20, 2006, at 9:22 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: Klaus Major wrote: Buongiorno Paul, Someone knows if the new Rev. 1.7 give some new chance to create a system menu on Mac Os X (the menus visible by all applications, as MenuCalendarClock, MenuMeters, iKey, etc.)? sorry, I'm afraid that is not possible with Rev :-/ It may be worth noting that there is no sanctioned API for that, as Apple considers those menus to be exclusively for their own use: Reserved for use by Apple, the right side of the menu bar may contain items that provide feedback on and access to certain hardware or network settings. http://developer.apple.com/documentation/UserExperience/Conceptual/OSXHIGuidelines/XHIGMenus/chapter_16_section_4.html Third-party programs which make such menus for themselves do so by violating Apple's design mandate and effectively hacking the system. As already said, Rev does not provide such facilities so this is getting off-topic but the info here is not really correct. While it is true that there is no Apple sanctioned API for specifically Menu Bar Extras as referred to in the HIG material quoted above, Cocoa does provide an Apple sanctioned public API for the creation of Status Items (NSStatusItem). These are sort of weaker Menu Bar Extras (weaker in that the underlying application needs to be running for them to appear and you can't reorder them like you can Extras) but they are there regardless of which app is in front and they have the advantage that they can't bring the system down either. While a public API, Apple still discourages their use unless there is no alternative (say a Dock menu), ostensibly to save menu bar real estate. (I think it's also to avoid creating the nightmare of a Windows system tray.) The point is that not every third party program that is putting up one of these menus is hacking the system. I don't like these things so I don't have many up there but I note that Kensington's MouseWorks uses status items, not menu bar extras. The only way I could tell (short of looking at what processes are running) was to try to Cmd-drag the icon. Thanks for the clarification, James. As long as Apple's backtracked from their original position, maybe a Bugzilla request is in order? It might also be good to have Dock menus as well -- is there a BZ request for that? -- Richard Gaskin Managing Editor, revJournal ___ Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: System menus
On Feb 20, 2006, at 10:10 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: As already said, Rev does not provide such facilities so this is getting off-topic but the info here is not really correct. While it is true that there is no Apple sanctioned API for specifically Menu Bar Extras as referred to in the HIG material quoted above, Cocoa does provide an Apple sanctioned public API for the creation of Status Items (NSStatusItem). These are sort of weaker Menu Bar Extras (weaker in that the underlying application needs to be running for them to appear and you can't reorder them like you can Extras) but they are there regardless of which app is in front and they have the advantage that they can't bring the system down either. While a public API, Apple still discourages their use unless there is no alternative (say a Dock menu), ostensibly to save menu bar real estate. (I think it's also to avoid creating the nightmare of a Windows system tray.) The point is that not every third party program that is putting up one of these menus is hacking the system. I don't like these things so I don't have many up there but I note that Kensington's MouseWorks uses status items, not menu bar extras. The only way I could tell (short of looking at what processes are running) was to try to Cmd-drag the icon. Thanks for the clarification, James. As long as Apple's backtracked from their original position, maybe a Bugzilla request is in order? It's hard to know how far Apple has backtracked: I get the sense that there is some internal differences. The HIG quote you gave is still very much valid showing a last update date of 2006-02-07 obviously long after NSStatusItem was made available (I think in OS X 10.1). Not that I think Rev should be artificially limited so as to act as a big brother in complying with good practices, I'm not convinced that this deserves a bugzilla request; IMHO even Status Items should be limited to hardware based stuff, system level programming that, again IMHO, Rev is not really suited for. Now dock menus on the other hand James P. Spencer Rochester, MN [EMAIL PROTECTED] Badges?? We don't need no stinkin badges! ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: System menus
It may be worth noting that there is no sanctioned API for that, as Apple considers those menus to be exclusively for their own use: Reserved for use by Apple, the right side of the menu bar may contain items that provide feedback on and access to certain hardware or network settings. http://developer.apple.com/documentation/UserExperience/Conceptual/ OSXHIGuidelines/XHIGMenus/chapter_16_section_4.html Third-party programs which make such menus for themselves do so by violating Apple's design mandate and effectively hacking the system. I think the term 'hacking' used in this context is a little strong. Apple have noted that the use of these status items (and the relevant APIs) is reserved - but then point out why: they are the first things that get 'hidden' when the applications menus are too long to fit on a user's screen. Indeed, if one looks at the status bar items Apple itself installs, they are all 'for convenience' - either they display non-critical information, or their behaviours are available through other means. Reading between the lines, I'm guessing they don't mind too much if third-parties install them too, its just they don't want to see a whole army of utilities that rely on them exclusively. In regards to dock menus then - yes - useful things those and its nice how they correlate (to some extent) with task-bar icons with menus on Windows... Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ http://www.runrev.com Runtime Revolution ~ User-Centric Development Tools ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: System menus
On Feb 20, 2006, at 8:24 AM, James Spencer wrote: On Feb 20, 2006, at 10:10 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: As already said, Rev does not provide such facilities so this is getting off-topic but the info here is not really correct. While it is true that there is no Apple sanctioned API for Does using a program that adds a menu icon on the top right violate our license with Apple? If yes, then people releasing such programs should warn their users. Like in the Windows world, if you change out some of your system dll files in order to allow you to use some new gui themes, most of the people who distribute the hacked dll files warn you that using the hacked dll files will violate your license with MS. -Garrett ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
