Re: [DISCUSS] Remove Kafka 0.10.x connector (and possibly 0.11.x)

2020-08-27 Thread Paul Lam 
Hi,

I think it’s okay, given that we can either migrate to the universal connector 
or still use the compatible 0.10/0.11 connector of 1.11 release as Chesnay 
mentioned when upgrading to 1.12.

IIUC, the migration process to the universal connector would be (please correct 
me if I’m wrong):
1. Stop the job with a savepoint, committing the offset to Kafka brokers.
2. Modify user code, migrate to he universal connector, and change the source 
operator id to discard the old connector states.
3. Start the job with the savepoint, and read Kafka from group offsets.

Best,
Paul Lam

> 2020年8月27日 16:27，Aljoscha Krettek  写道：
> 
> @Konstantin: Yes, I'm talking about dropping those modules. We don't have any 
> special code for supporting Kafka 0.10/0.11 in the "modern" connector, that 
> comes from the Kafka Consumer/Producer code we're using.
> 
> @Paul: The modern Kafka connector works with Kafka brokers as far back as 
> 0.10, would that be enough or do you still think we should have the actual 
> Kafka 0.10 Consumer code in Flink as well.
> 
> Best,
> Aljoscha
> 
> On 25.08.20 23:15, Chesnay Schepler wrote:
>> +1 to remove both the 1.10 and 1.11 connectors.
>> The connectors have not been actively developed for some time. They are 
>> basically just sitting around causing noise by causing test instabilities 
>> and eating CI time.
>> It would  also allow us to really simplify the module structure of the Kafka 
>> connectors.
>> Users may continue to use the 1.11 version of the connectors with future 
>> Flink versions, and we may even provide critical bug fixes in a 1.11 bugfix 
>> release (albeit unlikely).
>> While ultimately this is a separate topic I would also be in favor of 
>> removing any migration paths we have from 0.11 to the universal connector;
>> as these are already present in 1.11 users may migrate to the universal 
>> connector before jumping to Flink 1.12+.
>> On 25/08/2020 18:49, Konstantin Knauf wrote:
>>> Hi Aljoscha,
>>> 
>>> I am assuming you're asking about dropping the 
>>> flink-connector-kafka-0.10/0.11 modules, right? Or are you talking about 
>>> removing support for Kafka 0.10/0.11 from the universal connector?
>>> 
>>> I am in favor of removing flink-connector-kafka-0.10/0.11 in the next 
>>> release. These modules would still be available in Flink 1.11- as a 
>>> reference, and could be used with Flink 1.12+ with small or no 
>>> modifications. To my knowledge, you also use the universal Kafka connector 
>>> with 0.10 brokers, but there might be a performance penalty if I remember 
>>> correctly. In general, I find it important to continuously reduce baggage 
>>> that accumulates over time and this seems like a good opportunity.
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> 
>>> Konstantin
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Aug 25, 2020 at 4:59 AM Paul Lam >>  >> >> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Aljoscha,
>>> 
>>> I'm lightly leaning towards keeping the 0.10 connector, for Kafka
>>> 0.10 still has a steady user base in my observation.
>>> 
>>> But if we drop 0.10 connector, can we ensure the users would be
>>> able to smoothly migrate to 0.11 connector/universal connector?
>>> 
>>> If I remember correctly, the universal connector is compatible
>>> with 0.10 brokers, but I want to double check that.
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> Paul Lam
>>> 
 2020年8月24日 22:46，Aljoscha Krettek >>> 
 >> 写道：
 
 Hi all,
 
 this thought came up on FLINK-17260 [1] but I think it would be a
 good idea in general. The issue reminded us that Kafka didn't
 have an idempotent/fault-tolerant Producer before Kafka 0.11.0.
 By now we have had the "modern" Kafka connector that roughly
 follows new Kafka releases for a while and this one supports
 Kafka cluster versions as far back as 0.10.2.0 (I believe).
 
 What are your thoughts on removing support for older Kafka
 versions? And yes, I know that we had multiple discussions like
 this in the past but I'm trying to gauge the current sentiment.
 
 I'm cross-posting to the user-ml since this is important for both
 users and developers.
 
 Best,
 Aljoscha
 
 [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/FLINK-17260
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> 
>>> Konstantin Knauf
>>> 
>>> https://twitter.com/snntrable
>>> 
>>> https://github.com/knaufk

Re: [DISCUSS] Remove Kafka 0.10.x connector (and possibly 0.11.x)

2020-08-27 Thread Aljoscha Krettek 
@Konstantin: Yes, I'm talking about dropping those modules. We don't 
have any special code for supporting Kafka 0.10/0.11 in the "modern" 
connector, that comes from the Kafka Consumer/Producer code we're using.


@Paul: The modern Kafka connector works with Kafka brokers as far back 
as 0.10, would that be enough or do you still think we should have the 
actual Kafka 0.10 Consumer code in Flink as well.


Best,
Aljoscha

On 25.08.20 23:15, Chesnay Schepler wrote:

+1 to remove both the 1.10 and 1.11 connectors.

The connectors have not been actively developed for some time. They are 
basically just sitting around causing noise by causing test 
instabilities and eating CI time.
It would  also allow us to really simplify the module structure of the 
Kafka connectors.


Users may continue to use the 1.11 version of the connectors with future 
Flink versions, and we may even provide critical bug fixes in a 1.11 
bugfix release (albeit unlikely).


While ultimately this is a separate topic I would also be in favor of 
removing any migration paths we have from 0.11 to the universal connector;
as these are already present in 1.11 users may migrate to the universal 
connector before jumping to Flink 1.12+.


On 25/08/2020 18:49, Konstantin Knauf wrote:

Hi Aljoscha,

I am assuming you're asking about dropping the 
flink-connector-kafka-0.10/0.11 modules, right? Or are you talking 
about removing support for Kafka 0.10/0.11 from the universal connector?


I am in favor of removing flink-connector-kafka-0.10/0.11 in the next 
release. These modules would still be available in Flink 1.11- as a 
reference, and could be used with Flink 1.12+ with small or no 
modifications. To my knowledge, you also use the universal Kafka 
connector with 0.10 brokers, but there might be a performance 
penalty if I remember correctly. In general, I find it important 
to continuously reduce baggage that accumulates over time and this 
seems like a good opportunity.


Best,

Konstantin

On Tue, Aug 25, 2020 at 4:59 AM Paul Lam > wrote:


    Hi Aljoscha,

    I'm lightly leaning towards keeping the 0.10 connector, for Kafka
    0.10 still has a steady user base in my observation.

    But if we drop 0.10 connector, can we ensure the users would be
    able to smoothly migrate to 0.11 connector/universal connector?

    If I remember correctly, the universal connector is compatible
    with 0.10 brokers, but I want to double check that.

    Best,
    Paul Lam


    2020年8月24日 22:46，Aljoscha Krettek mailto:aljos...@apache.org>> 写道：

    Hi all,

    this thought came up on FLINK-17260 [1] but I think it would be a
    good idea in general. The issue reminded us that Kafka didn't
    have an idempotent/fault-tolerant Producer before Kafka 0.11.0.
    By now we have had the "modern" Kafka connector that roughly
    follows new Kafka releases for a while and this one supports
    Kafka cluster versions as far back as 0.10.2.0 (I believe).

    What are your thoughts on removing support for older Kafka
    versions? And yes, I know that we had multiple discussions like
    this in the past but I'm trying to gauge the current sentiment.

    I'm cross-posting to the user-ml since this is important for both
    users and developers.

    Best,
    Aljoscha

    [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/FLINK-17260




--

Konstantin Knauf

https://twitter.com/snntrable

https://github.com/knaufk

Re: [DISCUSS] Remove Kafka 0.10.x connector (and possibly 0.11.x)

2020-08-25 Thread Chesnay Schepler 

+1 to remove both the 1.10 and 1.11 connectors.

The connectors have not been actively developed for some time. They are 
basically just sitting around causing noise by causing test 
instabilities and eating CI time.
It would  also allow us to really simplify the module structure of the 
Kafka connectors.


Users may continue to use the 1.11 version of the connectors with future 
Flink versions, and we may even provide critical bug fixes in a 1.11 
bugfix release (albeit unlikely).


While ultimately this is a separate topic I would also be in favor of 
removing any migration paths we have from 0.11 to the universal connector;
as these are already present in 1.11 users may migrate to the universal 
connector before jumping to Flink 1.12+.


On 25/08/2020 18:49, Konstantin Knauf wrote:

Hi Aljoscha,

I am assuming you're asking about dropping the 
flink-connector-kafka-0.10/0.11 modules, right? Or are you talking 
about removing support for Kafka 0.10/0.11 from the universal connector?


I am in favor of removing flink-connector-kafka-0.10/0.11 in the next 
release. These modules would still be available in Flink 1.11- as a 
reference, and could be used with Flink 1.12+ with small or no 
modifications. To my knowledge, you also use the universal Kafka 
connector with 0.10 brokers, but there might be a performance 
penalty if I remember correctly. In general, I find it important 
to continuously reduce baggage that accumulates over time and this 
seems like a good opportunity.


Best,

Konstantin

On Tue, Aug 25, 2020 at 4:59 AM Paul Lam > wrote:


Hi Aljoscha,

I'm lightly leaning towards keeping the 0.10 connector, for Kafka
0.10 still has a steady user base in my observation.

But if we drop 0.10 connector, can we ensure the users would be
able to smoothly migrate to 0.11 connector/universal connector?

If I remember correctly, the universal connector is compatible
with 0.10 brokers, but I want to double check that.

Best,
Paul Lam


2020年8月24日 22:46，Aljoscha Krettek mailto:aljos...@apache.org>> 写道：

Hi all,

this thought came up on FLINK-17260 [1] but I think it would be a
good idea in general. The issue reminded us that Kafka didn't
have an idempotent/fault-tolerant Producer before Kafka 0.11.0.
By now we have had the "modern" Kafka connector that roughly
follows new Kafka releases for a while and this one supports
Kafka cluster versions as far back as 0.10.2.0 (I believe).

What are your thoughts on removing support for older Kafka
versions? And yes, I know that we had multiple discussions like
this in the past but I'm trying to gauge the current sentiment.

I'm cross-posting to the user-ml since this is important for both
users and developers.

Best,
Aljoscha

[1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/FLINK-17260




--

Konstantin Knauf

https://twitter.com/snntrable

https://github.com/knaufk

Re: [DISCUSS] Remove Kafka 0.10.x connector (and possibly 0.11.x)

2020-08-25 Thread Konstantin Knauf 
Hi Aljoscha,

I am assuming you're asking about dropping the
flink-connector-kafka-0.10/0.11 modules, right? Or are you talking about
removing support for Kafka 0.10/0.11 from the universal connector?

I am in favor of removing flink-connector-kafka-0.10/0.11 in the next
release. These modules would still be available in Flink 1.11- as a
reference, and could be used with Flink 1.12+ with small or no
modifications. To my knowledge, you also use the universal Kafka connector
with 0.10 brokers, but there might be a performance penalty if I remember
correctly. In general, I find it important to continuously reduce baggage
that accumulates over time and this seems like a good opportunity.

Best,

Konstantin

On Tue, Aug 25, 2020 at 4:59 AM Paul Lam  wrote:

> Hi Aljoscha,
>
> I'm lightly leaning towards keeping the 0.10 connector, for Kafka 0.10
> still has a steady user base in my observation.
>
> But if we drop 0.10 connector, can we ensure the users would be able to
> smoothly migrate to 0.11 connector/universal connector?
>
> If I remember correctly, the universal connector is compatible with 0.10
> brokers, but I want to double check that.
>
> Best,
> Paul Lam
>
> 2020年8月24日 22:46，Aljoscha Krettek  写道：
>
> Hi all,
>
> this thought came up on FLINK-17260 [1] but I think it would be a good
> idea in general. The issue reminded us that Kafka didn't have an
> idempotent/fault-tolerant Producer before Kafka 0.11.0. By now we have had
> the "modern" Kafka connector that roughly follows new Kafka releases for a
> while and this one supports Kafka cluster versions as far back as 0.10.2.0
> (I believe).
>
> What are your thoughts on removing support for older Kafka versions? And
> yes, I know that we had multiple discussions like this in the past but I'm
> trying to gauge the current sentiment.
>
> I'm cross-posting to the user-ml since this is important for both users
> and developers.
>
> Best,
> Aljoscha
>
> [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/FLINK-17260
>
>
>

-- 

Konstantin Knauf

https://twitter.com/snntrable

https://github.com/knaufk

Re: [DISCUSS] Remove Kafka 0.10.x connector (and possibly 0.11.x)

2020-08-24 Thread Paul Lam 
Hi Aljoscha,

I'm lightly leaning towards keeping the 0.10 connector, for Kafka 0.10 still 
has a steady user base in my observation. 

But if we drop 0.10 connector, can we ensure the users would be able to 
smoothly migrate to 0.11 connector/universal connector?

If I remember correctly, the universal connector is compatible with 0.10 
brokers, but I want to double check that.

Best,
Paul Lam

> 2020年8月24日 22:46，Aljoscha Krettek  写道：
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> this thought came up on FLINK-17260 [1] but I think it would be a good idea 
> in general. The issue reminded us that Kafka didn't have an 
> idempotent/fault-tolerant Producer before Kafka 0.11.0. By now we have had 
> the "modern" Kafka connector that roughly follows new Kafka releases for a 
> while and this one supports Kafka cluster versions as far back as 0.10.2.0 (I 
> believe).
> 
> What are your thoughts on removing support for older Kafka versions? And yes, 
> I know that we had multiple discussions like this in the past but I'm trying 
> to gauge the current sentiment.
> 
> I'm cross-posting to the user-ml since this is important for both users and 
> developers.
> 
> Best,
> Aljoscha
> 
> [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/FLINK-17260

[DISCUSS] Remove Kafka 0.10.x connector (and possibly 0.11.x)

2020-08-24 Thread Aljoscha Krettek 

Hi all,

this thought came up on FLINK-17260 [1] but I think it would be a good 
idea in general. The issue reminded us that Kafka didn't have an 
idempotent/fault-tolerant Producer before Kafka 0.11.0. By now we have 
had the "modern" Kafka connector that roughly follows new Kafka releases 
for a while and this one supports Kafka cluster versions as far back as 
0.10.2.0 (I believe).


What are your thoughts on removing support for older Kafka versions? And 
yes, I know that we had multiple discussions like this in the past but 
I'm trying to gauge the current sentiment.


I'm cross-posting to the user-ml since this is important for both users 
and developers.


Best,
Aljoscha

[1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/FLINK-17260