Re: Third-Party Licensing Policy

[Krzysztof Sobkowiak]

Ok thanks a lot, it clarified me my questions. The license content use 
juridical language. I don't understand it always. I could find 
camel-extra and servicemix-extra projects. But I can't find karaf-extra. 
Where is this project? Have you any plans to migrate the projects in git 
(or even host on Github)?


Best regards
Krzysztof

On 10.01.2014 08:06, Jean-Baptiste Onofré wrote:

Hi Krzysztof,

I invite you to read the GPL, APL, etc license content.

My comments inline:

On 01/10/2014 07:36 AM, Krzysztof Sobkowiak wrote:

Hi

Thanks for answers. I need still some clarifications. I'll use some 
samples


On 10.01.2014 05:44, Jean-Baptiste Onofré wrote:

Hi

It's a difference between inclusion, usage, and reference.

For instance, GPL license is a intrusive license. It means that any
software that use a code under GPL has to be itself under the GPL
license. That's why you can't use GPL in a Apache project. It's the
case for usage, inclusion or reference.
LGPL is a bit permissive in the cave of reference. LGPL is a Category
X for inclusion and usage. It means that it's not possible to use LGPL
if the project embeds some jar under LGPL, or ship some code (like
copy/paste) under LGPL. However, if you just reference the project
without embedding it, and it's an user action to actually download and
add the LGPL jar, it's fine.

I don't know if I have understood it correctly. I can reference
Hibernate libraries in Karaf feature (e.g. because it is referenced by
other library which is also included in Karaf feature ans uses the code
from Hibernate or because we need Hibernate as JPA provider) . But I can
not implement any sample with Karaf which shows, how to use Spring with
plain Hibernate, because the Hibernate  code (e.g. SessionFactory) would
be referenced in this code. But I can implement such a sample outside
Karaf (probably under another license, which? LGPL?) and eventually
reference the sample somewhere in the Karaf feature like the Hibernate
libraries?


Correct. That's why we have karaf-extra (like camel-extra, 
servicemix-extra) to store such code/sample outside Apache codebase.





Regarding your question:
1/ category A
2/ category A
3/ category A and B
4/ category A and B (and we have to "publish" the changes)


Does it mean I can copy some code (e.g. classes) from category B library
into Apache licensed project, eventually change the code, and and ship
it as part of this project (usage 3 and 4) but I can not reference the
category B libraries as maven dependencies and use the classes from the
dependencies in Apache licensed project (usage 1 and 2)?


Not really, it depends in the license. Basically, all code in Apache 
project should be under Apache license. Again, we can add it in 
karaf-extra.




I use an example again  - AspectJ is licensed under EPL 1.0 license.
Assume I'd like to implement a WeavingHook using the AspectJ classes
(reference AspectJ as maven dependency and use the classes in my code).
Does it mean, my code can not be included in Apache licensed project,
but I can implement the hook in a project under other license and
eventually reference it in Karaf feature?


Correct, you can't include in Apache project. You can create your 
project outside of Apache project and reference it. Same as before: 
you can do your WeavingHook in karaf-extra.


Regards
JB



Best regards
Krzysztof


5/ all
6/ category A and B

Regards
JB

On 01/09/2014 11:35 PM, Krzysztof Sobkowiak wrote:

Hi

I have some licensing questions.

I have found following page http://www.apache.org/legal/3party.html
which defines 3 categories of third party licenses. According to this
page LGPL v2.1 is category X, but further remark says, the
LGPL-v2.1-licensed work can be listed as system requirements but 
can not
be included  by Apache products. I'm not good in licensing but I 
try to
understand it.  Is the category of LGPL really B (and the page 
should be

corrected) or is the LGP category X.  In the second case, can we still
list Hibernate in Karaf features (e.g. using the remark about 
listing of

system requirements)?

Assume following use cases of third-party work usage:
1. reference 3rd-party library as (maven) dependency and use the 
classes

in ASF code
2. reference 3rd-party library as (maven) dependency and use the 
classes

only in ASF configuration files (e.g. blueprint.xml)
3. include/copy some unmodified 3rd-party code (e.g. some classes) in
ASF project
4. include/copy some 3rd-party code (e.g. some classes) in ASF project
and modify it
5. list some 3rd-party libraries in Karaf features, but not include 
them

as binaries in one of the Karaf distributions
6. list some 3rd-party libraries in Karaf features, and include 
them as

binaries in one of the Karaf distributions in system repository

Could anybody please answer which of above points are allowed for
following 3rd-party works
a. category A as the whole category - I assume, all above use cases 
are

allowed in this category, is it ok?
b. category B

Re: Third-Party Licensing Policy

[Jean-Baptiste Onofré]

Hi Krzysztof,

I invite you to read the GPL, APL, etc license content.

My comments inline:

On 01/10/2014 07:36 AM, Krzysztof Sobkowiak wrote:

Hi

Thanks for answers. I need still some clarifications. I'll use some samples

On 10.01.2014 05:44, Jean-Baptiste Onofré wrote:

Hi

It's a difference between inclusion, usage, and reference.

For instance, GPL license is a intrusive license. It means that any
software that use a code under GPL has to be itself under the GPL
license. That's why you can't use GPL in a Apache project. It's the
case for usage, inclusion or reference.
LGPL is a bit permissive in the cave of reference. LGPL is a Category
X for inclusion and usage. It means that it's not possible to use LGPL
if the project embeds some jar under LGPL, or ship some code (like
copy/paste) under LGPL. However, if you just reference the project
without embedding it, and it's an user action to actually download and
add the LGPL jar, it's fine.

I don't know if I have understood it correctly. I can reference
Hibernate libraries in Karaf feature (e.g. because it is referenced by
other library which is also included in Karaf feature ans uses the code
from Hibernate or because we need Hibernate as JPA provider) . But I can
not implement any sample with Karaf which shows, how to use Spring with
plain Hibernate, because the Hibernate  code (e.g. SessionFactory) would
be referenced in this code. But I can implement such a sample outside
Karaf (probably under another license, which? LGPL?) and eventually
reference the sample somewhere in the Karaf feature like the Hibernate
libraries?


Correct. That's why we have karaf-extra (like camel-extra, 
servicemix-extra) to store such code/sample outside Apache codebase.





Regarding your question:
1/ category A
2/ category A
3/ category A and B
4/ category A and B (and we have to "publish" the changes)


Does it mean I can copy some code (e.g. classes) from category B library
into Apache licensed project, eventually change the code, and and ship
it as part of this project (usage 3 and 4) but I can not reference the
category B libraries as maven dependencies and use the classes from the
dependencies in Apache licensed project (usage 1 and 2)?


Not really, it depends in the license. Basically, all code in Apache 
project should be under Apache license. Again, we can add it in karaf-extra.




I use an example again  - AspectJ is licensed under EPL 1.0 license.
Assume I'd like to implement a WeavingHook using the AspectJ classes
(reference AspectJ as maven dependency and use the classes in my code).
Does it mean, my code can not be included in Apache licensed project,
but I can implement the hook in a project under other license and
eventually reference it in Karaf feature?


Correct, you can't include in Apache project. You can create your 
project outside of Apache project and reference it. Same as before: you 
can do your WeavingHook in karaf-extra.


Regards
JB



Best regards
Krzysztof


5/ all
6/ category A and B

Regards
JB

On 01/09/2014 11:35 PM, Krzysztof Sobkowiak wrote:

Hi

I have some licensing questions.

I have found following page http://www.apache.org/legal/3party.html
which defines 3 categories of third party licenses. According to this
page LGPL v2.1 is category X, but further remark says, the
LGPL-v2.1-licensed work can be listed as system requirements but can not
be included  by Apache products. I'm not good in licensing but I try to
understand it.  Is the category of LGPL really B (and the page should be
corrected) or is the LGP category X.  In the second case, can we still
list Hibernate in Karaf features (e.g. using the remark about listing of
system requirements)?

Assume following use cases of third-party work usage:
1. reference 3rd-party library as (maven) dependency and use the classes
in ASF code
2. reference 3rd-party library as (maven) dependency and use the classes
only in ASF configuration files (e.g. blueprint.xml)
3. include/copy some unmodified 3rd-party code (e.g. some classes) in
ASF project
4. include/copy some 3rd-party code (e.g. some classes) in ASF project
and modify it
5. list some 3rd-party libraries in Karaf features, but not include them
as binaries in one of the Karaf distributions
6. list some 3rd-party libraries in Karaf features, and  include them as
binaries in one of the Karaf distributions in system repository

Could anybody please answer which of above points are allowed for
following 3rd-party works
a. category A as the whole category - I assume, all above use cases are
allowed in this category, is it ok?
b. category B as the whole category
c. category X as the whole category
d. LGPL
e. GPL
f. EPL

I have chosen Karaf as sample ASF project, but it could be any other ASF
project, e.g. ServiceMix or Aries

Do the rules from the page mentioned above apply only for ASF projects
or for any project licensed under Apache License?

Best regards
Krzysztof



--
Krzysztof Sobkowiak

JEE & OSS Architect | Technical Architect

Re: Third-Party Licensing Policy

[Krzysztof Sobkowiak]

Hi

Thanks for answers. I need still some clarifications. I'll use some samples

On 10.01.2014 05:44, Jean-Baptiste Onofré wrote:

Hi

It's a difference between inclusion, usage, and reference.

For instance, GPL license is a intrusive license. It means that any 
software that use a code under GPL has to be itself under the GPL 
license. That's why you can't use GPL in a Apache project. It's the 
case for usage, inclusion or reference.
LGPL is a bit permissive in the cave of reference. LGPL is a Category 
X for inclusion and usage. It means that it's not possible to use LGPL 
if the project embeds some jar under LGPL, or ship some code (like 
copy/paste) under LGPL. However, if you just reference the project 
without embedding it, and it's an user action to actually download and 
add the LGPL jar, it's fine.
I don't know if I have understood it correctly. I can reference 
Hibernate libraries in Karaf feature (e.g. because it is referenced by 
other library which is also included in Karaf feature ans uses the code 
from Hibernate or because we need Hibernate as JPA provider) . But I can 
not implement any sample with Karaf which shows, how to use Spring with 
plain Hibernate, because the Hibernate  code (e.g. SessionFactory) would 
be referenced in this code. But I can implement such a sample outside 
Karaf (probably under another license, which? LGPL?) and eventually 
reference the sample somewhere in the Karaf feature like the Hibernate 
libraries?



Regarding your question:
1/ category A
2/ category A
3/ category A and B
4/ category A and B (and we have to "publish" the changes)


Does it mean I can copy some code (e.g. classes) from category B library 
into Apache licensed project, eventually change the code, and and ship 
it as part of this project (usage 3 and 4) but I can not reference the 
category B libraries as maven dependencies and use the classes from the 
dependencies in Apache licensed project (usage 1 and 2)?


I use an example again  - AspectJ is licensed under EPL 1.0 license. 
Assume I'd like to implement a WeavingHook using the AspectJ classes 
(reference AspectJ as maven dependency and use the classes in my code). 
Does it mean, my code can not be included in Apache licensed project, 
but I can implement the hook in a project under other license and 
eventually reference it in Karaf feature?


Best regards
Krzysztof


5/ all
6/ category A and B

Regards
JB

On 01/09/2014 11:35 PM, Krzysztof Sobkowiak wrote:

Hi

I have some licensing questions.

I have found following page http://www.apache.org/legal/3party.html
which defines 3 categories of third party licenses. According to this
page LGPL v2.1 is category X, but further remark says, the
LGPL-v2.1-licensed work can be listed as system requirements but can not
be included  by Apache products. I'm not good in licensing but I try to
understand it.  Is the category of LGPL really B (and the page should be
corrected) or is the LGP category X.  In the second case, can we still
list Hibernate in Karaf features (e.g. using the remark about listing of
system requirements)?

Assume following use cases of third-party work usage:
1. reference 3rd-party library as (maven) dependency and use the classes
in ASF code
2. reference 3rd-party library as (maven) dependency and use the classes
only in ASF configuration files (e.g. blueprint.xml)
3. include/copy some unmodified 3rd-party code (e.g. some classes) in
ASF project
4. include/copy some 3rd-party code (e.g. some classes) in ASF project
and modify it
5. list some 3rd-party libraries in Karaf features, but not include them
as binaries in one of the Karaf distributions
6. list some 3rd-party libraries in Karaf features, and  include them as
binaries in one of the Karaf distributions in system repository

Could anybody please answer which of above points are allowed for
following 3rd-party works
a. category A as the whole category - I assume, all above use cases are
allowed in this category, is it ok?
b. category B as the whole category
c. category X as the whole category
d. LGPL
e. GPL
f. EPL

I have chosen Karaf as sample ASF project, but it could be any other ASF
project, e.g. ServiceMix or Aries

Do the rules from the page mentioned above apply only for ASF projects
or for any project licensed under Apache License?

Best regards
Krzysztof



--
Krzysztof Sobkowiak

JEE & OSS Architect | Technical Architect @ Capgemini
Capgemini  | Software Solutions Center 
 | Wroclaw
e-mail: krzys.sobkow...@gmail.com  | 
Twitter: @KSobkowiak

Re: Third-Party Licensing Policy (was: karaf 3.0 : hibernate 4 feature)

[Achim Nierbeck]

Hi,

I fully agree John here.
The feature descriptor just points to maven coordinates. Therefore I think
we are license safe.

Regards, achim

sent from mobile device
Am 10.01.2014 01:30 schrieb "John D. Ament" :

> Right, but is there an actual dependency on something LGPL/GPL here?
> The file in question is an instruction to a karaf instance on how to
> install something (e.g. hibernate).  Hibernate isn't actually
> distributed, simply commands that tell the instance where to get
> hibernate.
>
> On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 6:41 PM, Johan Edstrom  wrote:
> > It applies to anything licensed under ASF Licenses.
> > Hibernate is probably a good example, the Apache Camel Hibernate
> components
> > are housed outside ASF, in a 3rd party repo.
> > Since that component is compiled against GPL code it isn't ASF compatible
> > anymore.
> >
> >
> > On Jan 9, 2014, at 4:14 PM, John D. Ament 
> wrote:
> >
> >> Well, since there is no compile time dependency on hibernate, is there
> >> actually a licensing issue?
> >> The binary is referenced, but not compiled against in Apache code.
> >>
> >> On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 5:35 PM, Krzysztof Sobkowiak
> >>  wrote:
> >>> Hi
> >>>
> >>> I have some licensing questions.
> >>>
> >>> I have found following page http://www.apache.org/legal/3party.htmlwhich
> >>> defines 3 categories of third party licenses. According to this page
> LGPL
> >>> v2.1 is category X, but further remark says, the LGPL-v2.1-licensed
> work can
> >>> be listed as system requirements but can not be included  by Apache
> >>> products. I'm not good in licensing but I try to understand it.  Is the
> >>> category of LGPL really B  (and the page should be corrected) or is
> the LGP
> >>> category X.  In the second case, can we still list Hibernate in Karaf
> >>> features (e.g. using the remark about listing of system requirements)?
> >>>
> >>> Assume following use cases of third-party work usage:
> >>> 1. reference 3rd-party library as (maven) dependency and use the
> classes in
> >>> ASF code
> >>> 2. reference 3rd-party library as (maven) dependency and use the
> classes
> >>> only in ASF configuration files (e.g. blueprint.xml)
> >>> 3. include/copy some unmodified 3rd-party code (e.g. some classes) in
> ASF
> >>> project
> >>> 4. include/copy some 3rd-party code (e.g. some classes) in ASF project
> and
> >>> modify it
> >>> 5. list some 3rd-party libraries in Karaf features, but not include
> them as
> >>> binaries in one of the Karaf distributions
> >>> 6. list some 3rd-party libraries in Karaf features, and  include them
> as
> >>> binaries in one of the Karaf distributions in system repository
> >>>
> >>> Could anybody please answer which of above points are allowed for
> following
> >>> 3rd-party works
> >>> a. category A as the whole category - I assume, all above use cases are
> >>> allowed in this category, is it ok?
> >>> b. category B as the whole category
> >>> c. category X as the whole category
> >>> d. LGPL
> >>> e. GPL
> >>> f. EPL
> >>>
> >>> I have chosen Karaf as sample ASF project, but it could be any other
> ASF
> >>> project, e.g. ServiceMix or Aries
> >>>
> >>> Do the rules from the page mentioned above apply only for ASF projects
> or
> >>> for any project licensed under Apache License?
> >>>
> >>> Best regards
> >>> Krzysztof
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 03.01.2014 11:51, Jean-Baptiste Onofré wrote:
> >>>
> >>> LGPL is category B (not X), so we can reference it but not "include"
> it:
> >>> it's what we do.
> >>>
> >>> FYI, in Karaf 3.0.0, I've already added a hibernate feature.
> >>>
> >>> Regards
> >>> JB
> >>>
> >>> On 01/03/2014 11:46 AM, Freeman Fang wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Though it's a very useful feature, I'm not sure if we can add it in
> >>> Karaf, as Hibernate is under LGPL license, can we?
> >>> －
> >>> Freeman(Yue) Fang
> >>>
> >>> Red Hat, Inc.
> >>> FuseSource is now part of Red Hat
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Krzysztof Sobkowiak
> >>>
> >>> JEE & OSS Architect | Technical Architect @ Capgemini
> >>> Capgemini | Software Solutions Center | Wroclaw
> >>> e-mail: krzys.sobkow...@gmail.com | Twitter: @KSobkowiak
> >
>

Re: Third-Party Licensing Policy

[Jean-Baptiste Onofré]

Hi

It's a difference between inclusion, usage, and reference.

For instance, GPL license is a intrusive license. It means that any 
software that use a code under GPL has to be itself under the GPL 
license. That's why you can't use GPL in a Apache project. It's the case 
for usage, inclusion or reference.
LGPL is a bit permissive in the cave of reference. LGPL is a Category X 
for inclusion and usage. It means that it's not possible to use LGPL if 
the project embeds some jar under LGPL, or ship some code (like 
copy/paste) under LGPL. However, if you just reference the project 
without embedding it, and it's an user action to actually download and 
add the LGPL jar, it's fine.


Regarding your question:
1/ category A
2/ category A
3/ category A and B
4/ category A and B (and we have to "publish" the changes)
5/ all
6/ category A and B

Regards
JB

On 01/09/2014 11:35 PM, Krzysztof Sobkowiak wrote:

Hi

I have some licensing questions.

I have found following page http://www.apache.org/legal/3party.html
which defines 3 categories of third party licenses. According to this
page LGPL v2.1 is category X, but further remark says, the
LGPL-v2.1-licensed work can be listed as system requirements but can not
be included  by Apache products. I'm not good in licensing but I try to
understand it.  Is the category of LGPL really B (and the page should be
corrected) or is the LGP category X.  In the second case, can we still
list Hibernate in Karaf features (e.g. using the remark about listing of
system requirements)?

Assume following use cases of third-party work usage:
1. reference 3rd-party library as (maven) dependency and use the classes
in ASF code
2. reference 3rd-party library as (maven) dependency and use the classes
only in ASF configuration files (e.g. blueprint.xml)
3. include/copy some unmodified 3rd-party code (e.g. some classes) in
ASF project
4. include/copy some 3rd-party code (e.g. some classes) in ASF project
and modify it
5. list some 3rd-party libraries in Karaf features, but not include them
as binaries in one of the Karaf distributions
6. list some 3rd-party libraries in Karaf features, and  include them as
binaries in one of the Karaf distributions in system repository

Could anybody please answer which of above points are allowed for
following 3rd-party works
a. category A as the whole category - I assume, all above use cases are
allowed in this category, is it ok?
b. category B as the whole category
c. category X as the whole category
d. LGPL
e. GPL
f. EPL

I have chosen Karaf as sample ASF project, but it could be any other ASF
project, e.g. ServiceMix or Aries

Do the rules from the page mentioned above apply only for ASF projects
or for any project licensed under Apache License?

Best regards
Krzysztof



On 03.01.2014 11:51, Jean-Baptiste Onofré wrote:

LGPL is category B (not X), so we can reference it but not "include"
it: it's what we do.

FYI, in Karaf 3.0.0, I've already added a hibernate feature.

Regards
JB

On 01/03/2014 11:46 AM, Freeman Fang wrote:

Though it's a very useful feature, I'm not sure if we can add it in
Karaf, as Hibernate is under LGPL license, can we?
－
Freeman(Yue) Fang

Red Hat, Inc.
FuseSource is now part of Red Hat


--
Krzysztof Sobkowiak

JEE & OSS Architect | Technical Architect @ Capgemini
Capgemini  | Software Solutions Center
 | Wroclaw
e-mail: krzys.sobkow...@gmail.com  |
Twitter: @KSobkowiak


--
Jean-Baptiste Onofré
jbono...@apache.org
http://blog.nanthrax.net
Talend - http://www.talend.com

Re: Third-Party Licensing Policy (was: karaf 3.0 : hibernate 4 feature)

[John D. Ament]

Right, but is there an actual dependency on something LGPL/GPL here?
The file in question is an instruction to a karaf instance on how to
install something (e.g. hibernate).  Hibernate isn't actually
distributed, simply commands that tell the instance where to get
hibernate.

On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 6:41 PM, Johan Edstrom  wrote:
> It applies to anything licensed under ASF Licenses.
> Hibernate is probably a good example, the Apache Camel Hibernate components
> are housed outside ASF, in a 3rd party repo.
> Since that component is compiled against GPL code it isn't ASF compatible
> anymore.
>
>
> On Jan 9, 2014, at 4:14 PM, John D. Ament  wrote:
>
>> Well, since there is no compile time dependency on hibernate, is there
>> actually a licensing issue?
>> The binary is referenced, but not compiled against in Apache code.
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 5:35 PM, Krzysztof Sobkowiak
>>  wrote:
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> I have some licensing questions.
>>>
>>> I have found following page http://www.apache.org/legal/3party.html which
>>> defines 3 categories of third party licenses. According to this page LGPL
>>> v2.1 is category X, but further remark says, the LGPL-v2.1-licensed work can
>>> be listed as system requirements but can not be included  by Apache
>>> products. I'm not good in licensing but I try to understand it.  Is the
>>> category of LGPL really B  (and the page should be corrected) or is the LGP
>>> category X.  In the second case, can we still list Hibernate in Karaf
>>> features (e.g. using the remark about listing of system requirements)?
>>>
>>> Assume following use cases of third-party work usage:
>>> 1. reference 3rd-party library as (maven) dependency and use the classes in
>>> ASF code
>>> 2. reference 3rd-party library as (maven) dependency and use the classes
>>> only in ASF configuration files (e.g. blueprint.xml)
>>> 3. include/copy some unmodified 3rd-party code (e.g. some classes) in ASF
>>> project
>>> 4. include/copy some 3rd-party code (e.g. some classes) in ASF project and
>>> modify it
>>> 5. list some 3rd-party libraries in Karaf features, but not include them as
>>> binaries in one of the Karaf distributions
>>> 6. list some 3rd-party libraries in Karaf features, and  include them as
>>> binaries in one of the Karaf distributions in system repository
>>>
>>> Could anybody please answer which of above points are allowed for following
>>> 3rd-party works
>>> a. category A as the whole category - I assume, all above use cases are
>>> allowed in this category, is it ok?
>>> b. category B as the whole category
>>> c. category X as the whole category
>>> d. LGPL
>>> e. GPL
>>> f. EPL
>>>
>>> I have chosen Karaf as sample ASF project, but it could be any other ASF
>>> project, e.g. ServiceMix or Aries
>>>
>>> Do the rules from the page mentioned above apply only for ASF projects or
>>> for any project licensed under Apache License?
>>>
>>> Best regards
>>> Krzysztof
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 03.01.2014 11:51, Jean-Baptiste Onofré wrote:
>>>
>>> LGPL is category B (not X), so we can reference it but not "include" it:
>>> it's what we do.
>>>
>>> FYI, in Karaf 3.0.0, I've already added a hibernate feature.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> JB
>>>
>>> On 01/03/2014 11:46 AM, Freeman Fang wrote:
>>>
>>> Though it's a very useful feature, I'm not sure if we can add it in
>>> Karaf, as Hibernate is under LGPL license, can we?
>>> －
>>> Freeman(Yue) Fang
>>>
>>> Red Hat, Inc.
>>> FuseSource is now part of Red Hat
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Krzysztof Sobkowiak
>>>
>>> JEE & OSS Architect | Technical Architect @ Capgemini
>>> Capgemini | Software Solutions Center | Wroclaw
>>> e-mail: krzys.sobkow...@gmail.com | Twitter: @KSobkowiak
>

Re: Third-Party Licensing Policy (was: karaf 3.0 : hibernate 4 feature)

[Johan Edstrom]

It applies to anything licensed under ASF Licenses.
Hibernate is probably a good example, the Apache Camel Hibernate components
are housed outside ASF, in a 3rd party repo.
Since that component is compiled against GPL code it isn't ASF compatible 
anymore.


On Jan 9, 2014, at 4:14 PM, John D. Ament  wrote:

> Well, since there is no compile time dependency on hibernate, is there
> actually a licensing issue?
> The binary is referenced, but not compiled against in Apache code.
> 
> On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 5:35 PM, Krzysztof Sobkowiak
>  wrote:
>> Hi
>> 
>> I have some licensing questions.
>> 
>> I have found following page http://www.apache.org/legal/3party.html which
>> defines 3 categories of third party licenses. According to this page LGPL
>> v2.1 is category X, but further remark says, the LGPL-v2.1-licensed work can
>> be listed as system requirements but can not be included  by Apache
>> products. I'm not good in licensing but I try to understand it.  Is the
>> category of LGPL really B  (and the page should be corrected) or is the LGP
>> category X.  In the second case, can we still list Hibernate in Karaf
>> features (e.g. using the remark about listing of system requirements)?
>> 
>> Assume following use cases of third-party work usage:
>> 1. reference 3rd-party library as (maven) dependency and use the classes in
>> ASF code
>> 2. reference 3rd-party library as (maven) dependency and use the classes
>> only in ASF configuration files (e.g. blueprint.xml)
>> 3. include/copy some unmodified 3rd-party code (e.g. some classes) in ASF
>> project
>> 4. include/copy some 3rd-party code (e.g. some classes) in ASF project and
>> modify it
>> 5. list some 3rd-party libraries in Karaf features, but not include them as
>> binaries in one of the Karaf distributions
>> 6. list some 3rd-party libraries in Karaf features, and  include them as
>> binaries in one of the Karaf distributions in system repository
>> 
>> Could anybody please answer which of above points are allowed for following
>> 3rd-party works
>> a. category A as the whole category - I assume, all above use cases are
>> allowed in this category, is it ok?
>> b. category B as the whole category
>> c. category X as the whole category
>> d. LGPL
>> e. GPL
>> f. EPL
>> 
>> I have chosen Karaf as sample ASF project, but it could be any other ASF
>> project, e.g. ServiceMix or Aries
>> 
>> Do the rules from the page mentioned above apply only for ASF projects or
>> for any project licensed under Apache License?
>> 
>> Best regards
>> Krzysztof
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 03.01.2014 11:51, Jean-Baptiste Onofré wrote:
>> 
>> LGPL is category B (not X), so we can reference it but not "include" it:
>> it's what we do.
>> 
>> FYI, in Karaf 3.0.0, I've already added a hibernate feature.
>> 
>> Regards
>> JB
>> 
>> On 01/03/2014 11:46 AM, Freeman Fang wrote:
>> 
>> Though it's a very useful feature, I'm not sure if we can add it in
>> Karaf, as Hibernate is under LGPL license, can we?
>> －
>> Freeman(Yue) Fang
>> 
>> Red Hat, Inc.
>> FuseSource is now part of Red Hat
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Krzysztof Sobkowiak
>> 
>> JEE & OSS Architect | Technical Architect @ Capgemini
>> Capgemini | Software Solutions Center | Wroclaw
>> e-mail: krzys.sobkow...@gmail.com | Twitter: @KSobkowiak

Re: Third-Party Licensing Policy (was: karaf 3.0 : hibernate 4 feature)

[John D. Ament]

Well, since there is no compile time dependency on hibernate, is there
actually a licensing issue?
The binary is referenced, but not compiled against in Apache code.

On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 5:35 PM, Krzysztof Sobkowiak
 wrote:
> Hi
>
> I have some licensing questions.
>
> I have found following page http://www.apache.org/legal/3party.html which
> defines 3 categories of third party licenses. According to this page LGPL
> v2.1 is category X, but further remark says, the LGPL-v2.1-licensed work can
> be listed as system requirements but can not be included  by Apache
> products. I'm not good in licensing but I try to understand it.  Is the
> category of LGPL really B  (and the page should be corrected) or is the LGP
> category X.  In the second case, can we still list Hibernate in Karaf
> features (e.g. using the remark about listing of system requirements)?
>
> Assume following use cases of third-party work usage:
> 1. reference 3rd-party library as (maven) dependency and use the classes in
> ASF code
> 2. reference 3rd-party library as (maven) dependency and use the classes
> only in ASF configuration files (e.g. blueprint.xml)
> 3. include/copy some unmodified 3rd-party code (e.g. some classes) in ASF
> project
> 4. include/copy some 3rd-party code (e.g. some classes) in ASF project and
> modify it
> 5. list some 3rd-party libraries in Karaf features, but not include them as
> binaries in one of the Karaf distributions
> 6. list some 3rd-party libraries in Karaf features, and  include them as
> binaries in one of the Karaf distributions in system repository
>
> Could anybody please answer which of above points are allowed for following
> 3rd-party works
> a. category A as the whole category - I assume, all above use cases are
> allowed in this category, is it ok?
> b. category B as the whole category
> c. category X as the whole category
> d. LGPL
> e. GPL
> f. EPL
>
> I have chosen Karaf as sample ASF project, but it could be any other ASF
> project, e.g. ServiceMix or Aries
>
> Do the rules from the page mentioned above apply only for ASF projects or
> for any project licensed under Apache License?
>
> Best regards
> Krzysztof
>
>
>
> On 03.01.2014 11:51, Jean-Baptiste Onofré wrote:
>
> LGPL is category B (not X), so we can reference it but not "include" it:
> it's what we do.
>
> FYI, in Karaf 3.0.0, I've already added a hibernate feature.
>
> Regards
> JB
>
> On 01/03/2014 11:46 AM, Freeman Fang wrote:
>
> Though it's a very useful feature, I'm not sure if we can add it in
> Karaf, as Hibernate is under LGPL license, can we?
> －
> Freeman(Yue) Fang
>
> Red Hat, Inc.
> FuseSource is now part of Red Hat
>
>
> --
> Krzysztof Sobkowiak
>
> JEE & OSS Architect | Technical Architect @ Capgemini
> Capgemini | Software Solutions Center | Wroclaw
> e-mail: krzys.sobkow...@gmail.com | Twitter: @KSobkowiak

Third-Party Licensing Policy (was: karaf 3.0 : hibernate 4 feature)

[Krzysztof Sobkowiak]

Hi

I have some licensing questions.

I have found following page http://www.apache.org/legal/3party.html 
which defines 3 categories of third party licenses. According to this 
page LGPL v2.1 is category X, but further remark says, the 
LGPL-v2.1-licensed work can be listed as system requirements but can not 
be included  by Apache products. I'm not good in licensing but I try to 
understand it.  Is the category of LGPL really B (and the page should be 
corrected) or is the LGP category X.  In the second case, can we still 
list Hibernate in Karaf features (e.g. using the remark about listing of 
system requirements)?


Assume following use cases of third-party work usage:
1. reference 3rd-party library as (maven) dependency and use the classes 
in ASF code
2. reference 3rd-party library as (maven) dependency and use the classes 
only in ASF configuration files (e.g. blueprint.xml)
3. include/copy some unmodified 3rd-party code (e.g. some classes) in 
ASF project
4. include/copy some 3rd-party code (e.g. some classes) in ASF project 
and modify it
5. list some 3rd-party libraries in Karaf features, but not include them 
as binaries in one of the Karaf distributions
6. list some 3rd-party libraries in Karaf features, and  include them as 
binaries in one of the Karaf distributions in system repository


Could anybody please answer which of above points are allowed for 
following 3rd-party works
a. category A as the whole category - I assume, all above use cases are 
allowed in this category, is it ok?

b. category B as the whole category
c. category X as the whole category
d. LGPL
e. GPL
f. EPL

I have chosen Karaf as sample ASF project, but it could be any other ASF 
project, e.g. ServiceMix or Aries


Do the rules from the page mentioned above apply only for ASF projects 
or for any project licensed under Apache License?


Best regards
Krzysztof



On 03.01.2014 11:51, Jean-Baptiste Onofré wrote:
LGPL is category B (not X), so we can reference it but not "include" 
it: it's what we do.


FYI, in Karaf 3.0.0, I've already added a hibernate feature.

Regards
JB

On 01/03/2014 11:46 AM, Freeman Fang wrote:

Though it's a very useful feature, I'm not sure if we can add it in
Karaf, as Hibernate is under LGPL license, can we?
－
Freeman(Yue) Fang

Red Hat, Inc.
FuseSource is now part of Red Hat


--
Krzysztof Sobkowiak

JEE & OSS Architect | Technical Architect @ Capgemini
Capgemini  | Software Solutions Center 
 | Wroclaw
e-mail: krzys.sobkow...@gmail.com  | 
Twitter: @KSobkowiak

Re: Karaf samples/quickstarts

[lb]

I wrote some very-very simple JPA examples on
https://github.com/lburgazzoli/lb-karaf-examples-jpa
I wrote them primary to test the maturity of JPA providers and the specific
issues you may spot

Hope it helps


On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 9:11 AM, Jean-Baptiste Onofré wrote:

> Hi Krzysztof,
>
> it's a good idea. Actually, I planned to add a "cookbook" section in the
> documentation, with straight forward example as you described.
>
> Any contribution is welcome ;)
>
> Regards
> JB
>
>
> On 01/08/2014 08:00 PM, Krzysztof Sobkowiak wrote:
>
>> Hi
>>
>>
>> I'd like to ask you whether we want to have some samples  in Karaf like
>> in ServiceMix or JBoss Fuse, e.g. how to implement persistent bundle or
>> how to use Spring AOP or Spring Security in Karaf... What do you think
>> about the granularity of the samples - more complex samples (e.g. Spring
>> MVC + JPA + Security + Caching...)  or simple samples showing only one
>> aspect, something like "How to use Spring AOP in Karaf" or "How to use
>> AspectJ in Karaf"?
>>
>> Best regards
>> Krzysztof
>>
>>
>> --
>> Krzysztof Sobkowiak
>>
>> JEE & OSS Architect | Technical Architect @ Capgemini
>> e-mail: krzys.sobkow...@gmail.com  |
>> Twitter: @KSobkowiak
>>
>
> --
> Jean-Baptiste Onofré
> jbono...@apache.org
> http://blog.nanthrax.net
> Talend - http://www.talend.com
>

Re: Karaf samples/quickstarts

[Jean-Baptiste Onofré]

demos is fine.

On 01/09/2014 10:36 AM, Krzysztof Sobkowiak wrote:

Hi

Where should the samples be implemented? Under demos or somewhere else?

Best regards
Krzysztof


On 09.01.2014 09:11, Jean-Baptiste Onofré wrote:

Hi Krzysztof,

it's a good idea. Actually, I planned to add a "cookbook" section in
the documentation, with straight forward example as you described.

Any contribution is welcome ;)

Regards
JB

On 01/08/2014 08:00 PM, Krzysztof Sobkowiak wrote:

Hi


I'd like to ask you whether we want to have some samples  in Karaf like
in ServiceMix or JBoss Fuse, e.g. how to implement persistent bundle or
how to use Spring AOP or Spring Security in Karaf... What do you think
about the granularity of the samples - more complex samples (e.g. Spring
MVC + JPA + Security + Caching...)  or simple samples showing only one
aspect, something like "How to use Spring AOP in Karaf" or "How to use
AspectJ in Karaf"?

Best regards
Krzysztof


--
Krzysztof Sobkowiak

JEE & OSS Architect | Technical Architect @ Capgemini
e-mail: krzys.sobkow...@gmail.com  |
Twitter: @KSobkowiak





--
Krzysztof Sobkowiak

JEE & OSS Architect | Technical Architect @ Capgemini
Capgemini  | Software Solutions Center
 | Wroclaw
e-mail: krzys.sobkow...@gmail.com  |
Twitter: @KSobkowiak


--
Jean-Baptiste Onofré
jbono...@apache.org
http://blog.nanthrax.net
Talend - http://www.talend.com

Re: Karaf samples/quickstarts

[Krzysztof Sobkowiak]

Hi

Where should the samples be implemented? Under demos or somewhere else?

Best regards
Krzysztof


On 09.01.2014 09:11, Jean-Baptiste Onofré wrote:

Hi Krzysztof,

it's a good idea. Actually, I planned to add a "cookbook" section in 
the documentation, with straight forward example as you described.


Any contribution is welcome ;)

Regards
JB

On 01/08/2014 08:00 PM, Krzysztof Sobkowiak wrote:

Hi


I'd like to ask you whether we want to have some samples  in Karaf like
in ServiceMix or JBoss Fuse, e.g. how to implement persistent bundle or
how to use Spring AOP or Spring Security in Karaf... What do you think
about the granularity of the samples - more complex samples (e.g. Spring
MVC + JPA + Security + Caching...)  or simple samples showing only one
aspect, something like "How to use Spring AOP in Karaf" or "How to use
AspectJ in Karaf"?

Best regards
Krzysztof


--
Krzysztof Sobkowiak

JEE & OSS Architect | Technical Architect @ Capgemini
e-mail: krzys.sobkow...@gmail.com  |
Twitter: @KSobkowiak





--
Krzysztof Sobkowiak

JEE & OSS Architect | Technical Architect @ Capgemini
Capgemini  | Software Solutions Center 
 | Wroclaw
e-mail: krzys.sobkow...@gmail.com  | 
Twitter: @KSobkowiak

Re: Karaf samples/quickstarts

[Jean-Baptiste Onofré]

Hi Krzysztof,

it's a good idea. Actually, I planned to add a "cookbook" section in the 
documentation, with straight forward example as you described.


Any contribution is welcome ;)

Regards
JB

On 01/08/2014 08:00 PM, Krzysztof Sobkowiak wrote:

Hi


I'd like to ask you whether we want to have some samples  in Karaf like
in ServiceMix or JBoss Fuse, e.g. how to implement persistent bundle or
how to use Spring AOP or Spring Security in Karaf... What do you think
about the granularity of the samples - more complex samples (e.g. Spring
MVC + JPA + Security + Caching...)  or simple samples showing only one
aspect, something like "How to use Spring AOP in Karaf" or "How to use
AspectJ in Karaf"?

Best regards
Krzysztof


--
Krzysztof Sobkowiak

JEE & OSS Architect | Technical Architect @ Capgemini
e-mail: krzys.sobkow...@gmail.com  |
Twitter: @KSobkowiak


--
Jean-Baptiste Onofré
jbono...@apache.org
http://blog.nanthrax.net
Talend - http://www.talend.com

Re: Please help to fix karaf cluster issue

[Jean-Baptiste Onofré]

Hi,

1/ it's where cluster group can help: you can target the deployment of 
some resources to only some subset of nodes in the same cluster group.
2/ the cluster:bundle-start command allows you to target a specific 
cluster group, whereas when using bundle:start, Cellar will broadcast 
the cluster event to all members of the cluster groups of the local 
node. In future Cellar version, you will be able to disable the "local 
broadcasting": it means that bundle:start won't have effect on the 
cluster, and you will have to use cluster:bundle-start.
3/ It depends of the network configuration in etc/hazelcast.xml. By 
default, Cellar tries to discover the nodes using multicast/unicast. If 
it's not allowed on your network, you can switch to tcp-ip discovery 
(static IP address definition).


Regards
JB

On 01/09/2014 08:54 AM, simafengyun1984 wrote:

Hi JB,

I used karaf cellar 2.2.2 to construct my karaf cluster.
I tried to construct a cellar cluster in my local. I had 3 nodes in the
cluster.  3 kinds of bundles ,as below
*  1.  third-party bundles(ex: spring-dm bundle) deployed in the node1
   2. my customized camel component bundles deployed in the node2
   3. my application bundles deployed in the node3*

when the 3 node joined in the same group, it seems all the bundles in one
node will be copy to other nodes and each of the bundles will have 3
instances  in the 3 nodes.
in this case, the third-party bundles and custmized camel component bundles
are fine. but for my application bundle which is used to listening to the
JMS topic and process jms message. Apparently each JMS message will be
process in  3 times.
* Question1: Do you know any solution of keepping only one instance for a
bundle  in cluster in the same time?*

*Question2:  I run command " start  bundleID" in one node. and the bundle
will be started in other nodes. *So what's the difference between command
"start" and "cluster:bundle-start"?*
I used cellar to build 2 nodes cluster.
*

*Question3: I have 2 nodes, one in IP 192.168.1.50, the other in IP
192.169.0.50. But they can't see each other and can't be connected to the
same group.  Apparently the 2 IP are not in the same net segment. does it
caused by the IP which are not in the same net segment.*




--
View this message in context: 
http://karaf.922171.n3.nabble.com/Please-help-to-fix-karaf-cluster-issue-tp4030950.html
Sent from the Karaf - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



--
Jean-Baptiste Onofré
jbono...@apache.org
http://blog.nanthrax.net
Talend - http://www.talend.com

Re: karaf cellar 2.3.2 issue

[Jean-Baptiste Onofré]

Hi,

this is a known issue but not very "important" for Cellar:

https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/KARAF-2550

I will fix that for Cellar 2.3.3.

Regards
JB

On 01/09/2014 04:23 AM, simafengyun1984 wrote:

Hi JB,

I used the below command to install cellar in karaf 2.3.3

*features:addurl
mvn:org.apache.karaf.cellar/apache-karaf-cellar/2.3.2/xml/features
features:install cellar
features:install cellar-cloud*

*below is the log. I found there is an issue "CELLAR CONFIG: failed to
update local configuration
". So do you know the solution to fix it? Thanks*

2014-01-08 22:15:46,617 | INFO  | rint Extender: 1 | XmlConfigBuilder
| dardLoggerFactory$StandardLogger   46 | 86 - com.hazelcast - 2.6.0 | Using
configuration file at
/opt/gravity/ym39464/apache-karaf-2.3.3/etc/hazelcast.xml
2014-01-08 22:15:46,618 | INFO  | rint Extender: 1 | XmlConfigBuilder
| dardLoggerFactory$StandardLogger   46 | 86 - com.hazelcast - 2.6.0 | Using
configuration file at
/opt/gravity/ym39464/apache-karaf-2.3.3/etc/hazelcast.xml
2014-01-08 22:15:46,959 | INFO  | -karaf-2.3.3/etc | fileinstall
| ?   ? | 6 - org.apache.felix.fileinstall -
3.2.6 | Installed
/opt/gravity/ym39464/apache-karaf-2.3.3/etc/org.apache.karaf.cellar.node.cfg
2014-01-08 22:15:46,961 | INFO  | -karaf-2.3.3/etc | fileinstall
| ?   ? | 6 - org.apache.felix.fileinstall -
3.2.6 | Installed
/opt/gravity/ym39464/apache-karaf-2.3.3/etc/org.apache.karaf.cellar.groups.cfg
2014-01-08 22:15:47,084 | INFO  | rint Extender: 1 | AddressPicker
| dardLoggerFactory$StandardLogger   46 | 86 - com.hazelcast - 2.6.0 |
Prefer IPv4 stack is true.
2014-01-08 22:15:47,097 | INFO  | rint Extender: 1 | AddressPicker
| dardLoggerFactory$StandardLogger   46 | 86 - com.hazelcast - 2.6.0 |
Picked Address[162.124.15.154]:5701, using socket
ServerSocket[addr=/0.0.0.0,localport=5701], bind any local is true
2014-01-08 22:15:47,242 | INFO  | rint Extender: 1 | system
| dardLoggerFactory$StandardLogger   50 | 86 - com.hazelcast - 2.6.0 |
[162.124.15.154]:5701 [cellar] Hazelcast Community Edition 2.6 (20130603)
starting at Address[162.124.15.154]:5701
2014-01-08 22:15:47,243 | INFO  | rint Extender: 1 | system
| dardLoggerFactory$StandardLogger   50 | 86 - com.hazelcast - 2.6.0 |
[162.124.15.154]:5701 [cellar] Copyright (C) 2008-2013 Hazelcast.com
2014-01-08 22:15:47,272 | INFO  | rint Extender: 1 | LifecycleServiceImpl
| dardLoggerFactory$StandardLogger   50 | 86 - com.hazelcast - 2.6.0 |
[162.124.15.154]:5701 [cellar] Address[162.124.15.154]:5701 is STARTING
2014-01-08 22:15:50,085 | INFO  | ar.ServiceThread | MulticastJoiner
| dardLoggerFactory$StandardLogger   50 | 86 - com.hazelcast - 2.6.0 |
[162.124.15.154]:5701 [cellar]


Members [1] {
 Member [162.124.15.154]:5701 this
}

2014-01-08 22:15:50,128 | INFO  | rint Extender: 1 | LifecycleServiceImpl
| dardLoggerFactory$StandardLogger   50 | 86 - com.hazelcast - 2.6.0 |
[162.124.15.154]:5701 [cellar] Address[162.124.15.154]:5701 is STARTED
2014-01-08 22:15:50,138 | INFO  | ar.ServiceThread | PartitionManager
| dardLoggerFactory$StandardLogger   50 | 86 - com.hazelcast - 2.6.0 |
[162.124.15.154]:5701 [cellar] Initializing cluster partition table first
arrangement...
2014-01-08 22:15:50,343 | ERROR | pool-10-thread-1 |
ConfigurationEventHandler| config.ConfigurationEventHandler   91 |
91 - org.apache.karaf.cellar.config - 2.3.2 | CELLAR CONFIG: failed to
update local configuration
java.lang.NullPointerException
 at
org.apache.karaf.cellar.config.ConfigurationEventHandler.handle(ConfigurationEventHandler.java:71)[91:org.apache.karaf.cellar.config:2.3.2]
 at
org.apache.karaf.cellar.config.ConfigurationEventHandler.handle(ConfigurationEventHandler.java:36)[91:org.apache.karaf.cellar.config:2.3.2]
 at Proxy5a0c99d0_cd52_44ca_ad31_987947754f1f.handle(Unknown
Source)[:]
 at
org.apache.karaf.cellar.core.event.EventDispatchTask.run(EventDispatchTask.java:57)[87:org.apache.karaf.cellar.core:2.3.2]
 at java.util.concurrent.ThreadPoolExecutor$Worker.runTask(Unknown
Source)[:1.6.0_26]
 at java.util.concurrent.ThreadPoolExecutor$Worker.run(Unknown
Source)[:1.6.0_26]
 at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)[:1.6.0_26]
2014-01-08 22:15:50,344 | ERROR | pool-10-thread-2 |
ConfigurationEventHandler| config.ConfigurationEventHandler   91 |
91 - org.apache.karaf.cellar.config - 2.3.2 | CELLAR CONFIG: failed to
update local configuration
java.lang.NullPointerException
 at
org.apache.karaf.cellar.config.ConfigurationEventHandler.handle(ConfigurationEventHandler.java:71)[91:org.apache.karaf.cellar.config:2.3.2]
 at
org.apache.karaf.cellar.config.ConfigurationEventHandler.handle(ConfigurationEventHandler.java:36)[91:org.apache.karaf.cellar.config:2.3.2]
 at Proxy5a0c99d0_cd52_44ca_ad31_987947754f1f.handle(Unknown
Source)[:]
 at
org.apache.karaf.cellar.core.event.EventDispatchTask.run(EventDispa