Re: [ClusterLabs] Antw: Re: Antw: Re: from where does the default value for start/stop op of a resource come ?

[Ken Gaillot]

On Wed, 2017-08-02 at 18:32 +0200, Lentes, Bernd wrote:
> 
> - On Aug 2, 2017, at 10:42 AM, Ulrich Windl 
> ulrich.wi...@rz.uni-regensburg.de wrote:
> 
> 
> > 
> > I thought the cluster does not perform actions that are not defined in the
> > configuration (e.g. "monitor"). 
> 
> I think the cluster performs and configures automatically start/stop 
> operations if not defined it the resource, 
> but a monitor op has to be configured explicitly, to my knowledge.

Correct. We've considered adding an implicit monitor if none is
explicitly specified, as well as adding implicit master and slave role
monitors if only one monitor is specified for a master/slave resource.
That might happen in a future version.

> >> 2. Set timeouts for any operations that have defaults in the RA
> >>meta-data?
> >> 
> >> What most people seem to expect is 2), but it sounds like what you are
> >> expecting is 1). Crmsh can't read minds, so it would have to pick one or
> >> the other.
> 
> Yes, i expected the cluster chooses the "defaults" from the meta-data of the 
> RA..

It is confusing. Pacemaker doesn't use much from the resource agent
meta-data currently. I could see an argument for using the RA defaults,
though it could still be confusing since there are multiple possible
interpretations.

The implementation would be complicated, though. Currently, only the
crmd has the meta-data information; it's not in the CIB, so the policy
engine (which sets the timeouts) doesn't have it. Also, we can schedule
probe, start, and monitor operations in a single transition, before
we've gotten the RA meta-data, so the timeouts couldn't be known when
the actions are scheduled. There are potential ways around that, but it
would be a significant project.

> >> Another thing to consider is that if RA meta-data is preferred over the
> >> global default timeout, then the global default timeout wouldn't be used
> >> at all for operations that happen to have default timeouts in the
> >> meta-data. That seems surprising as well to me.
> 
> Yes. You configure global defaults, but they are not used. Confusing.
> 
> Bernd
>  
> 
> Helmholtz Zentrum Muenchen
> Deutsches Forschungszentrum fuer Gesundheit und Umwelt (GmbH)
> Ingolstaedter Landstr. 1
> 85764 Neuherberg
> www.helmholtz-muenchen.de
> Aufsichtsratsvorsitzende: MinDir'in Baerbel Brumme-Bothe
> Geschaeftsfuehrer: Prof. Dr. Guenther Wess, Heinrich Bassler, Dr. Alfons 
> Enhsen
> Registergericht: Amtsgericht Muenchen HRB 6466
> USt-IdNr: DE 129521671






___
Users mailing list: Users@clusterlabs.org
http://lists.clusterlabs.org/mailman/listinfo/users

Project Home: http://www.clusterlabs.org
Getting started: http://www.clusterlabs.org/doc/Cluster_from_Scratch.pdf
Bugs: http://bugs.clusterlabs.org

Re: [ClusterLabs] Antw: Re: Antw: Re: from where does the default value for start/stop op of a resource come ?

[Lentes, Bernd]

- On Aug 2, 2017, at 10:42 AM, Ulrich Windl 
ulrich.wi...@rz.uni-regensburg.de wrote:


> 
> I thought the cluster does not perform actions that are not defined in the
> configuration (e.g. "monitor"). 

I think the cluster performs and configures automatically start/stop operations 
if not defined it the resource, 
but a monitor op has to be configured explicitly, to my knowledge.

>> 
>> 2. Set timeouts for any operations that have defaults in the RA
>>meta-data?
>> 
>> What most people seem to expect is 2), but it sounds like what you are
>> expecting is 1). Crmsh can't read minds, so it would have to pick one or
>> the other.

Yes, i expected the cluster chooses the "defaults" from the meta-data of the 
RA..

>> 
>> Another thing to consider is that if RA meta-data is preferred over the
>> global default timeout, then the global default timeout wouldn't be used
>> at all for operations that happen to have default timeouts in the
>> meta-data. That seems surprising as well to me.

Yes. You configure global defaults, but they are not used. Confusing.

Bernd
 

Helmholtz Zentrum Muenchen
Deutsches Forschungszentrum fuer Gesundheit und Umwelt (GmbH)
Ingolstaedter Landstr. 1
85764 Neuherberg
www.helmholtz-muenchen.de
Aufsichtsratsvorsitzende: MinDir'in Baerbel Brumme-Bothe
Geschaeftsfuehrer: Prof. Dr. Guenther Wess, Heinrich Bassler, Dr. Alfons Enhsen
Registergericht: Amtsgericht Muenchen HRB 6466
USt-IdNr: DE 129521671


___
Users mailing list: Users@clusterlabs.org
http://lists.clusterlabs.org/mailman/listinfo/users

Project Home: http://www.clusterlabs.org
Getting started: http://www.clusterlabs.org/doc/Cluster_from_Scratch.pdf
Bugs: http://bugs.clusterlabs.org

Re: [ClusterLabs] Antw: Re: Antw: Re: from where does the default value for start/stop op of a resource come ?

[Kristoffer Grönlund]

Ulrich Windl  writes:

>
> See my proposal above. ;-)

Hmm, yes. It's a possibility. Magic values rarely end up making things
simpler though :/

Cheers,
Kristoffer

-- 
// Kristoffer Grönlund
// kgronl...@suse.com

___
Users mailing list: Users@clusterlabs.org
http://lists.clusterlabs.org/mailman/listinfo/users

Project Home: http://www.clusterlabs.org
Getting started: http://www.clusterlabs.org/doc/Cluster_from_Scratch.pdf
Bugs: http://bugs.clusterlabs.org

Re: [ClusterLabs] Antw: Re: Antw: Re: from where does the default value for start/stop op of a resource come ?

[Ulrich Windl]

>>> Kristoffer Grönlund  schrieb am 02.08.2017 um 10:32 in
Nachricht <87bmny74ka@suse.com>:
> Ulrich Windl  writes:
> 
> Kristoffer Grönlund  schrieb am 02.08.2017 um 10:05
in
>>> 
>>> One idea might be to have a new command which inserts missing operations
>>> and operation timeouts based on the RA metadata.
>>
>> Sometimes there are reasons for not defining some operations. I can't
quite
>> follow your logic. [My item 2) only applies to operations the user has
>> specified]
> 
> Well, what would you want it to do?
> 
> 1. Set timeouts for operations that are defined but don't have explicit
>timeouts set?

I thought the cluster does not perform actions that are not defined in the
configuration (e.g. "monitor"). Maybe having some new magic tokens could help
here: A "global-default" would use the global default value, while a
"ra-default" would use the RA's default value, and all other values are set as
is. The default for all (not configured) operations would then be
"ra-default".

> 
> 2. Set timeouts for any operations that have defaults in the RA
>meta-data?
> 
> What most people seem to expect is 2), but it sounds like what you are
> expecting is 1). Crmsh can't read minds, so it would have to pick one or
> the other.
> 
> Another thing to consider is that if RA meta-data is preferred over the
> global default timeout, then the global default timeout wouldn't be used
> at all for operations that happen to have default timeouts in the
> meta-data. That seems surprising as well to me.

See my proposal above. ;-)

Regards,
Ulrich
P.S. Adding back the list for this discussion, assuming you sent a message to
the list that will arrive later
[...]


___
Users mailing list: Users@clusterlabs.org
http://lists.clusterlabs.org/mailman/listinfo/users

Project Home: http://www.clusterlabs.org
Getting started: http://www.clusterlabs.org/doc/Cluster_from_Scratch.pdf
Bugs: http://bugs.clusterlabs.org