[libreoffice-users] Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: [pt-br-usuarios] Estudantes da rede estadual de SP terão Office gratuito para até 5 PCs após parceria
We all have had favorite packages for doing documentation over the years. I am an avid user for LO, but I remember the days before LO/OOo came out. I used different packages for different applications, and use MSO only when I had to. I use to use word processors that looked more like text editors. I really do not remember all of the packages I had tried over the years, but I did have copies of Works, WordPerfect, and MSO 95-2003. My first-favorite was PC-Write, where I helped create printer drivers for the package. Of course that was DOS days. Starting with Windows, I had to use WordPerfect and Word, depending on who the documents were for. But, with older, slower systems, the newer Word/MSO was getting too bulky and slow for ease of use. I was lucky that OOo just came out about then. Even with LO as my office suite, I still use Kate [Ubuntu Linux] for the text editor and Kompozer for WYSIWYG editing. I use NoteTab and/or NotePad ++ in the Windows systems, when I need a text editor instead of a word processor. I do not need to use LaTeX or similar options, but if I did then I would either add an extension to LO to do it or find an editor dedicated for that type or work. I am of the school of what ever way is easiest for me/you is the best way for me/you. I use Writer to make signs, that are not complex enough to need Corel Draw, Inkscape, or Draw. Actually, sometimes I power up a Windows boot on my laptop to run a package or two there that are easier and faster to use than anything I have on my Linux system [my main/default desktop is Ubuntu 12.04 with 6 TB of drive space]. Then, once I have done the work, I move it over to my Linux desktop for farther processing and/or storage. Of course, I have LO on all my Linux and Windows systems [both single or dual booting systems] On 11/02/2013 05:57 PM, Virgil Arrington wrote: I don't want to speak for Urmas, or necessarily defend him, but I use many programs in addition to LO for my work, and in many respects I prefer other options over LO. I've often spoken of the Atlantis Word Processor, a very small Word clone that I keep going back to for its simplicity, speed and stability. And, aside from creating tables, it does all I need in word processing (and has the best built-in Epub converter that I've seen in any word processor). I've also been playing recently with markdown editors like WriteMonkey and ReText. I like typing a plain text file and having it formatted by a separate CSS file. There's a simplicity about it that is quite enjoyable. I've used LaTeX and LyX on occasion. And, my job requires me to use (and teach) Microsoft Office. I even have an old version of WordPerfect on my system for those rare times I need to read its files from colleagues. So, why am I here on this list? I still use LO for those tasks that can't be accomplished by my other simpler tools. When I need tables, I use LO Writer. Also, I use Calc and Presentation and Base for many tasks, none of which are supported in the dedicated editors that I tend to prefer over LO. LO is the digital equivalent of my minivan. It does everything, but often isn't very fun, precisely because of its relative complexity. Atlantis is my sports car; small, light and fun, but not very practical when I need to haul a sheet of plywood. So, I stay on this list to keep learning about the program, and I've learned plenty from y'all. I hope that blind devotion to LO over all other computing tools doesn't become a prerequisite for discussing its relative merits and failings on this list. Last I saw, this is a *user's* list, not necessarily a *cheerleader's* list. Virgil -Original Message- From: Fred James Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2013 5:11 PM To: users@global.libreoffice.org Subject: [libreoffice-users] Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: [pt-br-usuarios] Estudantes da rede estadual de SP terão Office gratuito para até 5 PCs após parceria Urmas wrote: Jay Lozier: Microsoft did not develop the first office productivity packages. There were no 'office packages' before Microsoft Office. Several predated any MS offerings and were available before the IBM-PC was released. They didn't design the first, but they have designed the best So tell me, Urmas, if you find MSO to be the best, why are your here on an LO list? Regards Fred James -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: Insert/Overwrite in Status Bar
I do not look at either. I am one of those poor unfortunates who still have to look at the keyboard. Tink. -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Insert-Overwrite-in-Status-Bar-tp4081011p4081116.html Sent from the Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Save as html file [UPDATE]
(2013/10/30 21:27), Virgil Arrington wrote: Thomas Blasejewicz wrote: Good evening from Japan Maybe I did ask a similar question before ... I wrote a book using Writer which I am now trying to upload to Kindle. The instructions say, I must save the file as html and then create a zip file from the html file + the images. Save as ... html creates a content file and a whole long list of files for the images. Thomas, I've been playing with different tools to create e-books for the Kindle. I can find no clean way of going straight from LO to Kindle (MOBI) format. You may need to combine several tools. Here's what I've found. 1. If you haven't already done so, install Calibre, a free open source e-book manager and converter. It can convert a wide variety of file formats into MOBI for the Kindle. It has a depth of features that I have only begun to scratch. In my experience, it seems to work best converting HTML and EPUB files, but it can also convert LO's ODT files directly, if not elegantly. When using Calibre, I first save my LO document as an HTML file. Make sure to use the Save as command rather than the Export command. For some reason, in my experience, Save as has created cleaner HTML files than Export. I have no idea why. Once saved as an HTML file, I then load it into Calibre and convert it to MOBI. It works fairly well. For my work, I've found some quirks with the way numbered lists are formatted, but otherwise, things go relatively well. My work, however, has been all text, with no images. 2. There are (at least) two extensions for LO that convert ODT files to EPUB formats; Writer2Epub and Elaix. They work well with fairly simple documents. I've only played with them a little, but I sense they are both deeper and more fully featured than I have yet discovered. 3. There is another neat free program out there called Sigil. You can load your HTML file into it and then edit the HTML code in either a WYSIWYM screen or text-based code screen. It will then save the file as a well-compiled EPUB file, which you can then convert to MOBI using Calibre. 4. The best solution I've found for this task, however, is a shareware product called Atlantis (free download, $35.00 registration). It's a lightweight Word clone that has a built-in converter to EPUB format. It is *very* well behaved and does the best job in preserving my formatted documents. It also produces very well structured EPUB files (that you can see by loading it into Sigil and examining the code). It can also convert directly to MOBI if you have the free Kindlegen utility (available from Amazon) installed. Atlantis reads ODT files very well, although it's default file format is RTF. The main downside to Atlantis is that it doesn't support tables. The obvious frustration about all this is that, using free or inexpensive solutions will mean an involved learning curve along with a lot of trial and error experimentation. I know of no quick and easy press F7 and get a fully formatted Kindle e-book solution. Virgil Thank you everybody! I tried out each and every advice given here, the softwares indicated above and other things. To the best of my understanding (which does not mean much!) none of it worked. Neither could I make most of the software work. For example that Sigil thing tells me, that EVERY line of my file contains errors, but does not tell me what to do. And at a screen covered with those html codes is way beyond my capabilities. HOWEVER ... I succeeded in uploading the book! As far as I know, I did everything the same way I did it the first time, except I changed the setting for html compatibility under Tools - Options - Load/Save. There are 3 different settings. I tried them all. The last one I tried was IE Explorer. MAYBE that did the trick. If it is (I am currently waiting for an answer from Amazon support) ... then all that is required to upload something to Kindle is save a file as html and make a zip file. Would that not be refreshing? Thomas -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Engaging Users in the LibreOffice Project
Hello Ken, Le Sat, 02 Nov 2013 09:07:57 -0600, Ken Springer snowsh...@q.com a écrit : On 11/2/13 3:48 AM, Charles-H. Schulz wrote: Le Fri, 1 Nov 2013 22:59:33 +, e-letter inp...@gmail.com a écrit : On 01/11/2013, Charles-H. Schulz charles.sch...@documentfoundation.org wrote: But when we come to think of it, these people started somewhere, one day, to contribute, and while they all have their own reasons, we (the people in charge of marketing) thought that everybody has the ability to contribute. The question is: how can we make it 1)interesting 2) accessible 3)easy to understand what the various tasks are 4)possible to spread the word about it? Question 2 requires a definition of contribute, e.g. is a bug submission contribution? Is helping another user via the mailing list a contribution? Users support, yes. Q5 answers above, therefore should appear in the survey before q2! Q11 what is the relevance of knowing users' locations? Agree with Mr Springer's message. LO people should simply read the mailing list; every random date, select a random number of mailing lists threads, read, analyse and consider whether further action is necessary. You will get much better information than a biased survey I read Mr Springer's message and we do not want to have a biased survey at all. One of the reasons we came up with a survey is that we were precisely not able to get the big picture by reading mailing lists. It's important to note that there is no good or bad answer in this survey, it's about understanding opportunities we could create for users. Most if not all of these surveys that tend to be biased in some way, and all of multiple choice surveys in general, have the same problem. Not enough options for the user. IMO, the survey could simply be modified, and then the construction of the questions as well as the actual questions aren't so important. 1. Always have a None of the above selection 2. Allow the selection of more than one option, or no option at all. 3. Always have a comments window for each page so you can explain your choice(s). Multiple choice only limits the feedback you get. 4. At the end of survey, have a general comments section where the user can express just about anything regarding LO. Surveys constructed without the above features will almost always be biased in some way. A scenario: 100 people check out the survey. 40 of them are like me, they can't give you accurate answers. They exit, and you just lost 40% of potentially useable information. All surveys are meant to tell the originator(s) information they want to know. But the information you want may not be what you *need* to know to be successful. I could go on about why I'm looking for LO alternatives, but that's not the topic of this thread. If you are interested and have the time, I'd discuss LO off list. The email address in the header is valid. Last but not least the geography might count, yes. You do not see your contribution potential whether you're in a country that has ubiquitous broadband or in a country where most people connect to the internet via phones or for the wealthiest, satellite. The geography info also tells you where your users are, also. That can be helpful to identify where you may need to find out why usage in some locations is low. Low usage may not have anything to do with LO at all. As for satellite usage, wealthiest does not always apply if you consider only cost alone, not speed. I've lived at my location for 9.5 years. Modem and true satellite (no mixed systems) were the only options until 2-3 years ago when a main trunk line was replaced with fiber optics. I had satellite for many years. For the same price, DSL basically just gave me more speeds and unlimited data. Not enough difference in price for the base packages to really be a factor. I do hope you have the time to contact me via email. (HTML preferred) I'd like to see some serious competition for MS Office, but there appears to be none, either open source or commercial. First of all: thank you for your advice on the survey! I'm sure we can improve for the next one :-) As for contacting you via email. This is not how we work as a Free Open Source Software project and as a community. You're welcome to express your views here or even on our discuss list. You can even open a page on our wiki, keeping in mind that ideas, when they remain ideas and when no one's working on them, are cheap. Making them real is what matters. What propels the LibreOffice project are ourselves, which means our own work; we can't make things happen overnight by shoveling money here and resources there. We don't have a marketing director (inasmuch as I'm supposedly in charge of the marketing team with Italo Vignoli) who can slap twenty market research studies on the table defining where
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Engaging Users in the LibreOffice Project
Hi Ken, Let's start with some general points to start with. First, the user. For most home users, who probably are not as experienced or knowledgeable of Word and LO as you and I, the advanced features are not needed. So something simpler to use, like Kingsoft Office Free, are more suited to those users. Granted, but then Kingsoft Office Free *is* serious competition to MS Office. There's also Google Docs, which has a fair amount of business interest, so I think that also qualifies. If you want to entice people to switch from Product X to LO, you not only have to be as good as Product X, you have to be a Helluva lot better. Sure, if you want to convince a large portion of the user base to switch, but just to offer a viable alternative that's not true. To be serious competition, you just have to be roughly as good. Pricing is not that important anymore. I think it is still one consideration. As are moral issues, and trust issues, and vendor lock-in issues. In my opinion, MS has repeatedly shown that they are willing to take steps that are actively detrimental to their users, so I no longer trust their products. This won't be everyone's concern, but there are some good reasons to seek alternatives. And you aren't competing with just MS Office, you're also competing with every other document program out there. No, I don't think you are at all. Firstly, your statement was about competition to MS Office, but I think we've determined that there *is* serious competition to MS Office. Now we're discussing how relevant LO is. And, like MS Office, LO has its place, and that place isn't in head-to-head competition with the likes of Lyx, Tex, Inkscape and Scribus. MS Office isn't trying to compete with those products either. For something more specific: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=44871 https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=46986 Working around these issues creates more work for the user than doing the same things in Word. Would you switch to a program that causes more work for you? I'm sure there are people on this list that can site bugs in MS Office that make certain things easier to do in LO. That's just bugs, all software has those; the question is how many affect any given individual person, and that will determine which product he/she finds easiest/nicest to use. Personally I don't find that many bugs with LO, definitely not enough to make me want to switch to MS Office. Then, there is this thread I started 10/29/13: news://news.gmane.org:119/l4pbem$2ud$1...@ger.gmane.org In case the link doesn't work in your reader/email/whatever, the subject is Picture size controls. People who've used Word will expect that feature to work similarly, since the text in the dialogue box has a very similar meaning. Well, yes, but again, this is a difference of expectation. You can't judge LO's ability to be a viable alternative purely based on how exactly it mirrors MS Office. Then you're not talking about serious competition, but about a serious *clone*. But it *is* important to me. If features I use do not work or work correctly, why would I stay? That's why I'm looking for new alternatives to to LO. This is basically saying LO doesn't work for me, so it doesn't work for anybody. This may be why you don't personally like it, but I don't think it would be correct to say it isn't competition to MS Office just because you don't like it. Plenty of people don't have the issues you seem to have with it. Remember, I didn't ask why you had issues with LO. I am perfectly fine with you having a different experience to mine, and mine isn't perfect by any means (just better than MS Office's, or at least good enough that I prefer to use LO). I asked why you said that there wasn't any serious competition to MS Office. I don't see that as a fair statement of LO and the other good products out there. I think we've established that LO *is* serious competition to MS Office, as well as at least Kingsoft Office Free, and possibly Google Docs. That said, you have enough issues with LO that you don't like using it. Fair enough. YMMV, but plenty of people prefer it. Out of interest, how many issues do you have with MS Office? If you started looking at MS Office with as critical an eye as you have been looking at LO, wouldn't you also find enough issues that you would be frustrated and looking elsewhere? Just a thought. Paul -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: [pt-br-usuarios] Estudantes da rede estadual de SP terão Office gratuito para até 5 PCs após parceria
In data sabato 2 novembre 2013 17:11:55, Fred James ha scritto: Urmas wrote: Jay Lozier: Microsoft did not develop the first office productivity packages. There were no 'office packages' before Microsoft Office. Several predated any MS offerings and were available before the IBM-PC was released. They didn't design the first, but they have designed the best So tell me, Urmas, if you find MSO to be the best, why are your here on an LO list? We usually use this term: debunkering -- Valter Open Source is better! LibreOffice: www.libreoffice.org KDE: www.kde.org Kubuntu: www.kubuntu.org -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: [pt-br-usuarios] Estudantes da rede estadual de SP terão Office gratuito para até 5 PCs após parceria
In data sabato 2 novembre 2013 17:38:27, Jay Lozier ha scritto: On Sat, 2013-11-02 at 15:20 -0400, James Knott wrote: Urmas wrote: Just a simple question, Do you know who originally designed Microsoft Office? Microsoft mostly. IIRC, they bought what became Excel and I believe Word too, from other companies. Microsoft did not develop the first office productivity packages. Several predated any MS offerings and were available before the IBM-PC was released. How MS precisely entered the office productivity market is less important than the fact there were other packages available at that time. Basic text parsing has been done for a long time. Visi-Calc was the first spreadsheet and was available on the Apple II. Dedicated word processors (Wang) were available. Seems to be the same story as Netscape vs. Internet Exploder... oops Explorer... -- Valter Open Source is better! LibreOffice: www.libreoffice.org KDE: www.kde.org Kubuntu: www.kubuntu.org -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: [pt-br-usuarios] Estudantes da rede estadual de SP terão Office gratuito para até 5 PCs após parceria
On Sun, 3 Nov 2013 03:57:16 +0700 Urmas davian...@gmail.com wrote: Jay Lozier: They didn't design the first, but they have designed the best. You trying to be funny read some spam before now but that take the biscuit Pete . -- Linux 7-of-9 3.11.6-1-ARCH #1 SMP PREEMPT Fri Oct 18 23:22:36 CEST 2013 x86_64 GNU/Linux -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: Engaging Users in the LibreOffice Project
Good morning, Charles, On 11/3/13 5:29 AM, Charles-H. Schulz wrote: Hello Ken, Le Sat, 02 Nov 2013 09:07:57 -0600, Ken Springer snowsh...@q.com a écrit : On 11/2/13 3:48 AM, Charles-H. Schulz wrote: Le Fri, 1 Nov 2013 22:59:33 +, e-letter inp...@gmail.com a écrit : On 01/11/2013, Charles-H. Schulz charles.sch...@documentfoundation.org wrote: snip I've taken the liberty of snipping the older parts of this subthread, since I won't be addressing any of those points. First of all: thank you for your advice on the survey! I'm sure we can improve for the next one :-) You're welcome. And I look forward to an improved survey. As for contacting you via email. This is not how we work as a Free Open Source Software project and as a community. You're welcome to express your views here or even on our discuss list. You can even open a page on our wiki, keeping in mind that ideas, when they remain ideas and when no one's working on them, are cheap. Making them real is what matters. I've learned not all open source projects have this view. Some, much more restrictive in public comments, some just tell you we don't care if it doesn't work, fix it yourself or words to that effect. So I chose the conservative approach. G What propels the LibreOffice project are ourselves, which means our own work; we can't make things happen overnight by shoveling money here and resources there. We don't have a marketing director (inasmuch as I'm supposedly in charge of the marketing team with Italo Vignoli) who can slap twenty market research studies on the table defining where we should go in the future. We rely mostly on volunteers' work and contributions. Years ago, I learned that in almost anything, you're better off in the long run to do a few things very well, rather than a lot of things just adequately. For LO, I've seen new features added that have issues for some users, while existing issues for users languish. https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=44871 https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=46986 Those are two bugs I filed via Bugzilla, and noted them in news://news.gmane.org:119/l5422q$ac7$1...@ger.gmane.org. I don't expect them to be fixed immediately, but IMO they could've been addressed by now. But, the last time I checked, not even assigned. Perhaps some may think of it as excuses: they're not. This is how we work, this is what we do and this is how we are. If things were different we'd be working in a company developing and selling an office suite. But we are LibreOffice. And we'd love you to be part of LibreOffice too. This is where survey comes in... But I can't give you honest and anywhere complete answers via the existing survey. Hence, my first reply to your post about the survey. As I mentioned in the post linked (hopefully) above, I've got a list of things that didn't work correctly, at least for me (cross platform development may play a part here, I honestly don't know) in 3.x.x, but haven't retested except for the two bugs above. Which, by the way, still do not work right. I use my computer and software more as a tool and communications system, I'm not a gamer. Games bore me. But I want to use the tool, not build the tool. I don't mind reporting issues, if the reporting system is easy for the average person to use (Bugzilla is not) and confirming a fix works for me. In between, that part of the process no longer interests me. -- Ken Mac OS X 10.8.5 Firefox 24.0 Thunderbird 17.0.8 LibreOffice 4.1.2.3 -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Engaging Users in the LibreOffice Project
On 11/03/2013 12:56 PM, Paul wrote: For something more specific: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=44871 https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=46986 Working around these issues creates more work for the user than doing the same things in Word. Would you switch to a program that causes more work for you? I'm sure there are people on this list that can site bugs in MS Office That must be a reference to the fact that the mean time between starting MSO on Windows, and seeing the Blue Screen of Death is under sixty seconds. (It was MSO 2K3 on WinXP machines that got me banned from Kinko's, because every time I started MSO on those systems, the Blue Screen of Death appeared. But that behaviour has consistently occurred whenever I fire up MSO on a Windows system.) Or maybe it is a reference to the fact that MSO 2013 is so completely, utterly, and absolutely incompatible with MSO 2013, that the only logical conclusion is that the two programs -- MSO 2013 MSO 2013 --- were designed by two different companies intent on producing software that won't work with anything created by the other company. Ditto for MSO 2010, MSO 2003, MSO XP, MSO2K, MSO97, and MSO95. jonathon -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: [pt-br-usuarios] Estudantes da rede estadual de SP terão Office gratuito para até 5 PCs após parceria
Valter Mura wrote: Seems to be the same story as Netscape vs. Internet Exploder... oops Explorer... MS was also late to the game for the Internet. Apparenly BG didn't think much of it. IIRC, they bought another app to make IE. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: [pt-br-usuarios] Estudantes da rede estadual de SP terão Office gratuito para até 5 PCs após parceria
P NIKOLIC: You trying to be funny Which one is (or was) better then? -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: Engaging Users in the LibreOffice Project
Charles-H. Schulz: Many people who contribute to the LibreOffice project discussed the need for us to understand how we could enroll regular users (whatever that means) to the LibreOffice project. The LO project is suffering from rock star syndrome: through all those years there is a bunch of jackasses whom we all know but whom I will not name here, who has obtained the monopolistic control over the project due to their ultimate knowledge of its architecture and functioning. They abuse that power to bolster their own egos as if LO was their pet project. Until some public 'whippings' or 'executions' of those will take place, LO will be looking as an unwelcoming place and its perspectives will be unclear. Let's remember the ongoing sabotage of interoperation with ubiquitous formats of data exchange: Excel 95 and its newer alternative Excel XML. Who will support a project where such idiocy can go unpunished? -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: Engaging Users in the LibreOffice Project
jonathon: That must be a reference to the fact that the mean time between starting MSO on Windows, and seeing the Blue Screen of Death is under sixty seconds. /yawn Or maybe it is a reference to the fact that MSO 2013 is so completely, utterly, and absolutely incompatible with MSO 2013, FUD and absurd statements will take LO nowhere. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: Engaging Users in the LibreOffice Project
On 11/3/13 5:56 AM, Paul wrote: Hi Ken, Let's start with some general points to start with. First, the user. For most home users, who probably are not as experienced or knowledgeable of Word and LO as you and I, the advanced features are not needed. So something simpler to use, like Kingsoft Office Free, are more suited to those users. Granted, but then Kingsoft Office Free *is* serious competition to MS Office. Before you can say any program *is* serious competition, you have to determine which products, or product levels, you are going to compare. Office is available in many forms, similar to the different levels of comfort/convenience packages in automobiles. LO comes in just one flavor. Kingsoft Office in 2 flavors. Chocolate and Vanilla. OK, that's not quite right. LOL A quick comparison of what the the three packages offer, top of the line, for Windows: MS Office Pro Libre Office Kingsoft Pro WordWriter Writer Excel Calc Spreadsheets PowerPoint Presentation Presentation OneNote Base Outlook Drawing Publisher Access SkyDrive Notes for the above list: 1. The items listed are from the respective websites. Office 2007, the last Office I purchased, has additional tools available. I would assume the same for 2013. 2. I did not include Formula for LO as the formula editor in Office is an optional plugin for Word. 3. To the best of my knowledge, Office has never included a vector drawing module. Using a feature by feature comparison, there is no way LO or Kingsoft is serious competition for Office Pro. But, if you compare the less comprehensive versions of Office: Office Home and Student Office Home and Business WordWord Excel Excel PowerPoint PowerPoint OneNote OneNote Outlook The only feature lists that are similar is LO vs. Office Home and Business. I will agree that LO is competition *only* for Home and Business. Even then, I suspect most businesses will find an email program more valuable than a vector drawing program. MS Office 365 is cloud based, so LO isn't competition there at all. I doubt there is anything on the level of MS Office Pro out there. Corel was making a serious push in this direction at one time, damned near destroyed them. I don't know the full complement of WP Office at the time, but they have dropped the database component the last time I looked. And no Mac version. There's also Google Docs, which has a fair amount of business interest, so I think that also qualifies. I haven't trusted Google for anything except search abilities since Google and Facebook were caught violating their own privacy agreements. If you want to entice people to switch from Product X to LO, you not only have to be as good as Product X, you have to be a Helluva lot better. Sure, if you want to convince a large portion of the user base to switch, but just to offer a viable alternative that's not true. To be serious competition, you just have to be roughly as good. Those are standards I do not accept. You should aspire to be the best you can be, not just good enough. Yugos were good enough. Pricing is not that important anymore. I think it is still one consideration. As are moral issues, and trust issues, and vendor lock-in issues. In my opinion, MS has repeatedly shown that they are willing to take steps that are actively detrimental to their users, so I no longer trust their products. This won't be everyone's concern, but there are some good reasons to seek alternatives. And you aren't competing with just MS Office, you're also competing with every other document program out there. No, I don't think you are at all. Firstly, your statement was about competition to MS Office, but I think we've determined that there *is* serious competition to MS Office. Au contraire, my friend, as I just pointed out with the charts above, LO is competition to the mid-level version of Office only. And you aren't competing against *just* MSO, you are competing with every other office package out there. Ford doesn't just compete with Chevy, they compete with Honda, Toyota, BMW, Volkswagen, Mini-Cooper, ET. AL. Now we're discussing how relevant LO is. And, like MS
[libreoffice-users] Re: Engaging Users in the LibreOffice Project
On 11/3/13 9:05 AM, Urmas wrote: Charles-H. Schulz: Many people who contribute to the LibreOffice project discussed the need for us to understand how we could enroll regular users (whatever that means) to the LibreOffice project. Just FYI here, I would consider regular users those who still think the CD tray is a cup holder!LOL Joking aside, I think they are the users who turn on the computer, have no clues as to computer basics, but think since they can get a letter to ?? typed out and printed, think they know how to use computers. snip -- Ken Mac OS X 10.8.5 Firefox 24.0 Thunderbird 17.0.8 LibreOffice 4.1.2.3 -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] vlookup with cell reference for range
using libreoffice Version 4.0:build-305 on my opensuse 12.3 I would like to have a reference in the VLOOKUP function for range: the VLOOKUP formula is: =VLOOKUP(criteria,range,index,sort) if I write the function: =VLOOKUP(1,$A$1:$D$5,2,0) function works but if J1 is $A$1:$D$5 and the formula: =VLOOKUP(1,J1,2,0) the formula doesn't works also if J1 is =ADDRESS(1,1, , ):ADDRESS(5,3, , ) how can I get vlookup function working with cell reference for range?? manythanx, :-) ciao, pier -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Engaging Users in the LibreOffice Project
Sure, LO does not have as many modules as the professional version of MSO. That said, since there are already FOSS packages to do many of those missing modules, why should LO have their developers work on those as well as the basic office suite modules? Word --LO Writer plugin--LO Formula Excel --LO Calc PowerPoint--LO Presentation OneNote--. . . there should be free packages or extensions to replace this [never used this] Outlook -- . . . Mozilla Thunderbird or other FOSS email clients and their extensions should do the job [does for me] Publisher-- . . . Inkscape [maybe] or maybe Scribus for some jobs Access --LO Base SkyDrive --. . . there should be free services to replace this [never used this, but have used a cloud drive once] none included -- LO Drawing So, Lo does not include all of the modules of MSO. So what. You are able to add and remove modules of MSO depending on your need. So, if you do not have a module in the LO office suite, you add a FOSS package to give you that functionality. That is what I have done over the years. Sure it is hard to find any FOSS package that reads .pub files, but there are FOSS packages that will create the same projects as Publisher will do. They may not work the same as Publisher, but they get the job[s] done. SkyDrive, what is so important to have that name brand, when you can do the job with other packages and services? The real mindset, for me, is if there is already a FOSS package, or just a free one, that does the job of these extra modules of MSO, then why should the developers really spend their valuable time recreating them. Why do we need a LO Email when there are several good packages out there that has a many year development cycle behind it. Our developers would need years of work to get that far along. Someone once suggested having other LO modules that would make a all in one office suite of software marketing statement, but the goal of LO, seems to me, for creating the best office suite that includes a word processor, spread sheet, presentation, data base front end, vector drawing package, and a mathematical formula creation editor. It never was, in my opinion, a goal to create a replacement for Outlook or a cloud service. How will a free software company pay for the hardware and bandwidth to offer a cloud-based service? There are plenty of email clients and web mail clients to do the work of Outlook and services to replace SkyDrive. I know I have seen references on these lists for options that replace OneNote for LO users. I do not remember what they were though. Since I never used OneNote, I can not tell what would be the best option to do what it does. As for a serious competition for MSO, well look at the FOSS record in Europe. I would say LO is a serious contender due to the fact that more and more large organizations, plus regional and national governments are scrapping MSO for LO and other FOSS options. Do anyone remember the news out of France? It seems that they are dropping MSO country-wide and opting for LO and FOSS instead. This is a trend that is happening at the local, regional, and national levels of countries world-wide. USA, not so much, but there is a government mandate for the use of FOSS as an option. I keep hearing form a few people about Kingsoft, but others are warning me away from using it, due to some privacy issues. So, I cannot judge the good or bad about that software. So, for my home-based office, I use LO and FOSS and not MSO. The newest MSO I have is 2003. I do not plan on buying any newer one. On 11/03/2013 11:32 AM, Ken Springer wrote: On 11/3/13 5:56 AM, Paul wrote: Hi Ken, Let's start with some general points to start with. First, the user. For most home users, who probably are not as experienced or knowledgeable of Word and LO as you and I, the advanced features are not needed. So something simpler to use, like Kingsoft Office Free, are more suited to those users. Granted, but then Kingsoft Office Free *is* serious competition to MS Office. Before you can say any program *is* serious competition, you have to determine which products, or product levels, you are going to compare. Office is available in many forms, similar to the different levels of comfort/convenience packages in automobiles. LO comes in just one flavor. Kingsoft Office in 2 flavors. Chocolate and Vanilla. OK, that's not quite right. LOL A quick comparison of what the the three packages offer, top of the line, for Windows: MS Office ProLibre OfficeKingsoft Pro WordWriterWriter ExcelCalcSpreadsheets PowerPointPresentationPresentation OneNoteBase Outlook
Re: [libreoffice-users] vlookup with cell reference for range
Hi, Am 03.11.2013 18:19, schrieb yahoo-pier_andreit: the VLOOKUP formula is: =VLOOKUP(criteria,range,index,sort) if I write the function: =VLOOKUP(1,$A$1:$D$5,2,0) function works but if J1 is $A$1:$D$5 and the formula: =VLOOKUP(1,J1,2,0) the formula doesn't works Try the function INDIRECT https://help.libreoffice.org/Calc/Spreadsheet_Functions#INDIRECT Cheers, Stefan -- LibreOffice - Die Freiheit nehm' ich mir! -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: vlookup with cell reference for range
yahoo-pier_andreit: but if J1 is $A$1:$D$5 and the formula: =VLOOKUP(1,J1,2,0) the formula doesn't works You probably want INDIRECT function to create a reference from string. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Engaging Users in the LibreOffice Project
Hi, Am 03.11.2013 18:36, schrieb Kracked_P_P---webmaster: Access --LO Base Base does not replace Access and it´s not meant to do so. ;-) Stefan -- LibreOffice - Die Freiheit nehm' ich mir! -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: Engaging Users in the LibreOffice Project
To shorten up this message, I've deleted all but Kracked's reply. On 11/3/13 10:36 AM, Kracked_P_P---webmaster wrote: Sure, LO does not have as many modules as the professional version of MSO. That said, since there are already FOSS packages to do many of those missing modules, why should LO have their developers work on those as well as the basic office suite modules? Word --LO Writer plugin--LO Formula Excel --LO Calc PowerPoint--LO Presentation OneNote--. . . there should be free packages or extensions to replace this [never used this] Outlook -- . . . Mozilla Thunderbird or other FOSS email clients and their extensions should do the job [does for me] Publisher-- . . . Inkscape [maybe] or maybe Scribus for some jobs Access --LO Base SkyDrive --. . . there should be free services to replace this [never used this, but have used a cloud drive once] none included -- LO Drawing The subject is to compare suite to suite, not suite to suite plus others. When you start adding the plus others, you can turn your computer in to just about anything, and the comparison becomes useless/meaningless. Publisher and Inkscape are not the same thing. Although you can use Inkscape for some very basic DTP items. But I dare you to set up a book or manual with it. People used to do, and may still do, the same thing with Corel Draw. If you want to add additional software for the LO side of your example, then you have to allow the same additions on the MSO side. Level playing field, and all of that. Which modifies your list to the following, at least: Publisher -- Scribus Inkscape-- Inkscape The playing field is one program compared to one program, not one program to many programs. So, Lo does not include all of the modules of MSO. So what. You are able to add and remove modules of MSO depending on your need. So, if you do not have a module in the LO office suite, you add a FOSS package to give you that functionality. That is what I have done over the years. The point is, the modules are part of MSO, supplied by MSO. Comparable modules are not supplied by MSO. I am comparing suites, not computers. I don't care, for the purpose of this discussion, if the computers can do the same thing. Can the same type of suites do the same thing? If you want to compare the final abilities of the computer, then you have to allow substitutions for the MS side of the comparison as well. So, let's substitute Adobe Pagemaker for Publisher, and Corel Draw for Inkscape. Which side offers the user more horsepower for the job? Sure it is hard to find any FOSS package that reads .pub files, but there are FOSS packages that will create the same projects as Publisher will do. They may not work the same as Publisher, but they get the job[s] done. It's hard to find anything that reads .pub files, even older .pub files. The job gets done *only* if the software is capable of doing the job. A pickup does essentially the same job as Kenworth tractor w/ 40' flatbed. But there are jobs the pickup can't do. SkyDrive, what is so important to have that name brand, when you can do the job with other packages and services? Once again, comparing suite to suite only, not suite to a range of software. The inherent problem faced by the range of software solutions is the interoperability of the range of software. Which doesn't always work well. The real mindset, for me, is if there is already a FOSS package, or just a free one, that does the job of these extra modules of MSO, then why should the developers really spend their valuable time recreating them. Why do we need a LO Email when there are several good packages out there that has a many year development cycle behind it. Our developers would need years of work to get that far along. Someone once suggested having other LO modules that would make a all in one office suite of software marketing statement, but the goal of LO, seems to me, for creating the best office suite that includes a word processor, spread sheet, presentation, data base front end, vector drawing package, and a mathematical formula creation editor. It never was, in my opinion, a goal to create a replacement for Outlook or a cloud service. How will a free software company pay for the hardware and bandwidth to offer a cloud-based service? There are plenty of email clients and web mail clients to do the work of Outlook and services to replace SkyDrive. Interoperability, for one. Just because FOSS program A creates an .svg file, doesn't mean FOSS program B can correctly read it. But if Word creates a .docx file, all the other modules in Office that are designed to read the .docx file will be able to do that. Barring bugs, of course. I've stipulated that LO *is* comparable to MSO Home and Office. But
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Engaging Users in the LibreOffice Project
On Sun, Nov 03, 2013 at 11:14:08PM +0700, Urmas wrote: jonathon: That must be a reference to the fact that the mean time between starting MSO on Windows, and seeing the Blue Screen of Death is under sixty seconds. /yawn Or maybe it is a reference to the fact that MSO 2013 is so completely, utterly, and absolutely incompatible with MSO 2013, FUD and absurd statements will take LO nowhere. FUD you say? Pot meet kettle. -- Bob Holtzman Your mail is being read by tight lipped NSA agents who fail to see humor in Doctor Strangelove Key ID 8D549279 -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: [pt-br-usuarios] Estudantes da rede estadual de SP terão Office gratuito para até 5 PCs após parceria
On Saturday, November 02, 2013 12:46:43 PM Urmas wrote: Les Howell: Just a simple question, Do you know who originally designed Microsoft Office? Microsoft mostly. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted Thats not totally correct if I remember right. Office started out as a joint project between IBM and Microsoft for the original PC. There was a differnet of directions and MS wnd IBM went there own ways. MS took a lot of the joint developemt (Stole) with them. we used to use Wordstar on or PC's. Russ -- openSUSE 12.3(Linux 3.11.1-3.gfeffbf9-desktop)|KDE 4.11.2 |Intel core2duo 2.5 MHZ,|8GB DDR3|GeForce 8400GS (NVIDIA-Linux-x86_64-325.15 Patched) -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: [pt-br-usuarios] Estudantes da rede estadual de SP terão Office gratuito para até 5 PCs após parceria
On 11/2/2013 12:46 AM, Urmas wrote: Les Howell: Just a simple question, Do you know who originally designed Microsoft Office? Microsoft mostly. BS!!! The only thing MS ever developed from scratch without stealing anything was Bob. -- Dale Erwin Jr. 28 de Julio 657, Depto. 03 Magdalena del Mar, Lima 17 PERU http://leather.casaerwin.org -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: [pt-br-usuarios] Estudantes da rede estadual de SP terão Office gratuito para até 5 PCs após parceria
With all of the posts in all of the threads, it is not unusual that things would get confusing. I only point out that I was not the source of the quote in the following email. At this point, I don't know who wrote it. Virgil -Original Message- From: James Knott Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2013 9:44 PM To: LibreOffice Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: [pt-br-usuarios] Estudantes da rede estadual de SP terão Office gratuito para até 5 PCs após parceria Virgil Arrington wrote: StarOffice users are Linux users? . . . . I have never seen StarOffice available for Linux. StarOffice was a MS OS package not a Linux package, when it first came out, so StarOffice audience was a Windows audience and not Linux. Actually OOo, AOO, and LO may have its roots in StarOffice, but they are not StarOffice by any means. StarOffice was not from MS. It was originally written for CP/M on the Z80, by a guy who started StarDivision. I first came across it on OS/2. StarDivision was bought by Sun, who kept StarOffice as the commercial version of the open source OpenOffice. LibreOffice was created from OpenOffice, when Oracle, after buying Sun, couldn't decide what to do with StarOffice and OpenOffice. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Creating LibreOffice Calc document from XML (or some other file?)
Hi, all. Once in the past I stumbled upon a blog where owner explained how one can create a Calc document from the data that's in the XML file. I'm not sure if XML contained only the data which then populated the Calc template, or the whole Calc data was in that XML (not even sure if the source was XML or was it some other human-readable file), but I haven't been able to locate that blog ever since. I'd appreciate any info or pointers on how above mentioned can be achieved. I need to create several daily reports on some processes I'm overseeing, and entering all that data into the Calc spreadsheet is cumbersome - the report resembles of a tax-return/invoice sheet, where various fields need to be populated - and I'm looking for a way to automate this. Mario P.S. I apologize if I posted this to the wrong mailinglist, please redirect me if necessary. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Creating LibreOffice Calc document from XML (or some other file?)
Hi Mario, I'm sure others on this list can advise you more completely, but I'll have a quick stab at it. As I understand it, the LO document format is a zipped file consisting of XML files for the contents. One way of doing what you need should be to create a file with the layout you need and some sample data, then save that. Then rename the file extension to zip if need be, and open it in an archive manager. Extract the contents to a working directory and examine the files. You should find one with the sample data in XML format. You should be able to use that as a template, and create a script or program to replace the sample data with live data and re-zip the files into a working Calc file. Hope this is what you were looking for. Paul On Sun, 03 Nov 2013 20:47:09 +0100 Mario Splivalo ma...@splivalo.hr wrote: Hi, all. Once in the past I stumbled upon a blog where owner explained how one can create a Calc document from the data that's in the XML file. I'm not sure if XML contained only the data which then populated the Calc template, or the whole Calc data was in that XML (not even sure if the source was XML or was it some other human-readable file), but I haven't been able to locate that blog ever since. I'd appreciate any info or pointers on how above mentioned can be achieved. I need to create several daily reports on some processes I'm overseeing, and entering all that data into the Calc spreadsheet is cumbersome - the report resembles of a tax-return/invoice sheet, where various fields need to be populated - and I'm looking for a way to automate this. Mario P.S. I apologize if I posted this to the wrong mailinglist, please redirect me if necessary. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Creating LibreOffice Calc document from XML (or some other file?)
Hi Mario, Mario Splivalo schrieb: Hi, all. Once in the past I stumbled upon a blog where owner explained how one can create a Calc document from the data that's in the XML file. I'm not sure if XML contained only the data which then populated the Calc template, or the whole Calc data was in that XML (not even sure if the source was XML or was it some other human-readable file), but I haven't been able to locate that blog ever since. I'd appreciate any info or pointers on how above mentioned can be achieved. I need to create several daily reports on some processes I'm overseeing, and entering all that data into the Calc spreadsheet is cumbersome - the report resembles of a tax-return/invoice sheet, where various fields need to be populated - and I'm looking for a way to automate this. In which form do you get the data? Perhaps there is nothing like XML needed, but you can import the data directly. Do you want to write macros for Calc or do you want to use another application that manipulates the .ods file source? Mario P.S. I apologize if I posted this to the wrong mailinglist, please redirect me if necessary. users is OK. Kind regards Regina -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Creating LibreOffice Calc document from XML (or some other file?)
On Sun, 2013-11-03 at 21:16 +0100, Regina Henschel wrote: Hi Mario, Mario Splivalo schrieb: Hi, all. Once in the past I stumbled upon a blog where owner explained how one can create a Calc document from the data that's in the XML file. I'm not sure if XML contained only the data which then populated the Calc template, or the whole Calc data was in that XML (not even sure if the source was XML or was it some other human-readable file), but I haven't been able to locate that blog ever since. I'd appreciate any info or pointers on how above mentioned can be achieved. I need to create several daily reports on some processes I'm overseeing, and entering all that data into the Calc spreadsheet is cumbersome - the report resembles of a tax-return/invoice sheet, where various fields need to be populated - and I'm looking for a way to automate this. In which form do you get the data? Perhaps there is nothing like XML needed, but you can import the data directly. Do you want to write macros for Calc or do you want to use another application that manipulates the .ods file source? Mario P.S. I apologize if I posted this to the wrong mailinglist, please redirect me if necessary. users is OK. Kind regards Regina I have done this for some special logging I do, by simplying creating my own template, saving the data in a csv (comma separated value format) and then loading the data into the template. I do this manually, but a macro could be created to do it as well. Regards, Les H -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: Creating LibreOffice Calc document from XML (or some other file?)
Mario Splivalo: Once in the past I stumbled upon a blog where owner explained how one can create a Calc document from the data that's in the XML file. You may try XSLT to get a Flat ODS file. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Creating LibreOffice Calc document from XML (or some other file?)
On 11/03/2013 09:13 PM, Paul wrote: Hi Mario, I'm sure others on this list can advise you more completely, but I'll have a quick stab at it. As I understand it, the LO document format is a zipped file consisting of XML files for the contents. One way of doing what you need should be to create a file with the layout you need and some sample data, then save that. Then rename the file extension to zip if need be, and open it in an archive manager. Extract the contents to a working directory and examine the files. You should find one with the sample data in XML format. You should be able to use that as a template, and create a script or program to replace the sample data with live data and re-zip the files into a working Calc file. Hope this is what you were looking for. I was hoping for a method so I don't need to poke with .ods files directly :) The XML source can, I guess, be any source... Mario -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Creating LibreOffice Calc document from XML (or some other file?)
On 11/03/2013 09:16 PM, Regina Henschel wrote: I need to create several daily reports on some processes I'm overseeing, and entering all that data into the Calc spreadsheet is cumbersome - the report resembles of a tax-return/invoice sheet, where various fields need to be populated - and I'm looking for a way to automate this. In which form do you get the data? Perhaps there is nothing like XML needed, but you can import the data directly. Well, since I'm getting the data, I can put them in anything I like, more or less. I just think I remember seeing the XML, that's why I mentioned it... Do you want to write macros for Calc or do you want to use another application that manipulates the .ods file source? I don't know :) Actually, anything that gets the job done. If I remember correctly that blog post, author was not mentioning a separate application, nor modifying the .ods source. But I really do not remember at this time, that's why I'm asking for a suggestion. The reason I can't use CSV is because the report is funky-formated - parts of it can be CVSed, but most of the document can not. Mario -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Creating LibreOffice Calc document from XML (or some other file?)
On 11/03/2013 09:20 PM, Les Howell wrote: I have done this for some special logging I do, by simplying creating my own template, saving the data in a csv (comma separated value format) and then loading the data into the template. I do this manually, but a macro could be created to do it as well. I can't use CSV because the ODS document won't work with it well. For instance, first few rows contain information about the test subjects, varios fields/group names, some parametars that were configured during the test and so on. Then there is a table, with various measurements taken at particular times - and those could be CSVed. Then again a lot of fields that resemble more of a key-value pairs, than a CSV list. I there, maybe, a way to use XSLT transformation so that I can have my data in XML and then somehow 'fill in' the template with XSLT? Mario -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Engaging Users in the LibreOffice Project
Hi Ken, Before you can say any program *is* serious competition, you have to determine which products, or product levels, you are going to compare. Office is available in many forms, similar to the different levels of comfort/convenience packages in automobiles. LO comes in just one flavor. Kingsoft Office in 2 flavors. Chocolate and Vanilla. OK, that's not quite right. LOL Ok, granted, but when someones says MS Office (like you did) I happen to think primarily of Word and Excel. I'll even normally consider that Powerpoint and Access are in there. I don't consider OneNote (never used it, no idea what it is), Outlook or Publisher to be part of that package. That may be old fashioned of me, but I don't recall ever having an MS Office version that came with Publisher. That was always in one of the premium, too-expensive-to-even-consider packages. And I'd never even heard of SkyDrive till now. I'll grant you that a lot of people do use Outlook as part of the package, and it is more than just an email client, but for me it's a different application altogether, and not what I typically think of when I think of an office suite. So I finally see your real argument (the bugs and stuff, as I said, being a red herring): No other office suite, LO included, can compete against the full spectrum of software provided by the premium version of MS Office. I have to agree with that. That said, personally, I would still regard LO as serious competition to MS Office. The mindset of must use MS Office, because everybody else uses it is the greatest barrier to uptake of *anything* but MSO, but I believe enough people are starting to shift out of that mindset. So that aside, enough people will consider LO as an alternative to MSO, because it does everything they need. Yes, there are some people that need the advanced features of MSO, and yes even more people need Outlook, but enough people don't need the advanced features only available in the premium editions, and prefer a third party email application anyway, so for them LO provides all they need as an alternative to MSO, and it does that job well. That for me makes it serious competition. But that's a difference of opinion on what the statement means. And now that I understand what you meant, my question is answered. Thank you. And you aren't competing against *just* MSO, you are competing with every other office package out there. Ford doesn't just compete with Chevy, they compete with Honda, Toyota, BMW, Volkswagen, Mini-Cooper, ET. AL. This is just confusing the issue. You *are* competing against *just* MSO when the question is about a viable alternative to MSO. None of the other packages are relevant to the discussion of is LO a viable alternative to MSO Paul -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Creating LibreOffice Calc document from XML (or some other file?)
Hi Mario, Sorry, by your description I understood you to mean you *did* want to poke into the ods file directly. I would consider scripting something to create the files automatically the best option, but then again, I'm a programmer, so it would be my first thought :) I see a few possible menu items in Calc that might provide what you want, unfortunately I don't know them, so someone else will have to comment on their suitability. I'll just list them, and you can research further. View | Data Sources Insert | Link To External Data Data | XML Source Regards Paul On Sun, 03 Nov 2013 21:35:14 +0100 Mario Splivalo ma...@splivalo.hr wrote: On 11/03/2013 09:13 PM, Paul wrote: Hi Mario, I'm sure others on this list can advise you more completely, but I'll have a quick stab at it. As I understand it, the LO document format is a zipped file consisting of XML files for the contents. One way of doing what you need should be to create a file with the layout you need and some sample data, then save that. Then rename the file extension to zip if need be, and open it in an archive manager. Extract the contents to a working directory and examine the files. You should find one with the sample data in XML format. You should be able to use that as a template, and create a script or program to replace the sample data with live data and re-zip the files into a working Calc file. Hope this is what you were looking for. I was hoping for a method so I don't need to poke with .ods files directly :) The XML source can, I guess, be any source... Mario -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Creating LibreOffice Calc document from XML (or some other file?)
Hi Mario, Mario Splivalo schrieb: On 11/03/2013 09:16 PM, Regina Henschel wrote: I need to create several daily reports on some processes I'm overseeing, and entering all that data into the Calc spreadsheet is cumbersome - the report resembles of a tax-return/invoice sheet, where various fields need to be populated - and I'm looking for a way to automate this. In which form do you get the data? Perhaps there is nothing like XML needed, but you can import the data directly. Well, since I'm getting the data, I can put them in anything I like, more or less. I just think I remember seeing the XML, that's why I mentioned it... Do you want to write macros for Calc or do you want to use another application that manipulates the .ods file source? I don't know :) Actually, anything that gets the job done. If I remember correctly that blog post, author was not mentioning a separate application, nor modifying the .ods source. But I really do not remember at this time, that's why I'm asking for a suggestion. The reason I can't use CSV is because the report is funky-formated - parts of it can be CVSed, but most of the document can not. Perhaps you can put it in HTML. If you write that parts, which can be CVSed into a table element, you can use these tables as import or linked in Calc. If you need the other parts of the data too, you can try to write .fods directly. Obviously you now how to work with XML and .fods is a pure XML file. If you save a minimal spreadsheet to Flat XML (.fods) you get all the parts like namespaces, settings, styles, which you can copy simply. So you only need to write the table elements newly. Kind regards Regina -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] vlookup with cell reference for range
What I have done that works is first name the region. Then I place the region name in a cell, then us indirect(cell with range name). hth gs On 11/3/2013 11:19 AM, yahoo-pier_andreit wrote: using libreoffice Version 4.0:build-305 on my opensuse 12.3 I would like to have a reference in the VLOOKUP function for range: the VLOOKUP formula is: =VLOOKUP(criteria,range,index,sort) if I write the function: =VLOOKUP(1,$A$1:$D$5,2,0) function works but if J1 is $A$1:$D$5 and the formula: =VLOOKUP(1,J1,2,0) the formula doesn't works also if J1 is =ADDRESS(1,1, , ):ADDRESS(5,3, , ) how can I get vlookup function working with cell reference for range?? manythanx, :-) ciao, pier -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Creating LibreOffice Calc document from XML (or some other file?)
On 11/03/2013 09:29 PM, Urmas wrote: Mario Splivalo: Once in the past I stumbled upon a blog where owner explained how one can create a Calc document from the data that's in the XML file. You may try XSLT to get a Flat ODS file. Is there a standard library that provides such XSLT transformation? I tried to find some, but nothing stood up. Mario -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Creating LibreOffice Calc document from XML (or some other file?)
Hi. On 2013-11-04 10:40, Mario Splivalo wrote: On 11/03/2013 09:29 PM, Urmas wrote: Mario Splivalo: Once in the past I stumbled upon a blog where owner explained how one can create a Calc document from the data that's in the XML file. You may try XSLT to get a Flat ODS file. Is there a standard library that provides such XSLT transformation? I tried to find some, but nothing stood up. Mario I use XSLT import filters to import my xml files. This may not be what you are looking for. This is some information but I think you can google another more comprehensive tutorial somewhere. https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3490 I also import (open) CSV files with different structures. I use tab delimited files where the data may contain commas (i.e. addresses). It does not matter if the data lines have differing numbers of fields as long as you end each line with a line feed. steve -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: LibreOffice Calc fails to load spreadsheets after upgrade to Windows 8.1
Hi Gabriel, I have LibreOffice 4.1.3.2 Calc opening and printing spreadsheets again a short time ago. I might have had 2 or 3 problems causing this. The last problem I solved this afternoon was PDFs did not print. I found this out using the Gnumeric spreadsheet program which can open .ods files. Gnumeric uses PDFs as print previews and on my computer they open in Adobe Reader. I found my printer no longer worked with Adobe Reader after the upgrade to Windows 8.1. After removing the Samsung ML-2955ND printer and 4 or 5 tries installing to get the test page to print I was in business. On a whim yesterday I removed the multiple versions of Microsoft Visual C++ 2005 2008 Redistributable that had been installed by programs and only kept the most recent. That allowed me this morning to open a spreadsheet a couple of times out of a few attempts without freezing though both tries to print froze Calc. I also gave full security access yesterday to the 4 users (I only have 1 user/login) which might or might not have had anything to do with this. Thanks for your help Alan From: Gabriel Risterucci [via Document Foundation Mail Archive] ml-node+s969070n4081051...@n3.nabble.com To: Alan242 arr...@yahoo.com Sent: Saturday, November 2, 2013 4:52 PM Subject: Re: LibreOffice Calc fails to load spreadsheets after upgrade to Windows 8.1 2013/11/2 Alan242 [hidden email] After upgrading Windows 8 Pro 64-bit to Windows 8.1, Calc will open with a blank spreadsheet but will freeze (Not Responding) when doing a Load Document. The spreadsheet grid turns into a gray pane, probably system theme. The Menu bar (File, Edit, etc.) is at the top but unresponsive. The Status bar at the bottom only shows Load Document. Only the Minimize button on the Title bar at the top works. It has run at least 60 minutes in this state with the turning circle. The only way to exit is click on the Close button and select Close the program (the other option to select is Wait for the program to respond) or go to the Task Manager to force close the program. All my .ods spreadsheets normally open within 10 seconds. A new file is left behind that ends in .ods# and when LibreOffice is opened it asks me if I want to recover files. How do I get my computer to open Calc spreadsheets once again. I am heavily dependent on printing out spreadsheets in my personal life and use them to store my personal data without using paper copies. I can no longer lookup information I need. This happened while using version 4.1.2. The same thing happens with versions 4.0.6, 4.1.1, and 4.1.3. If the issue appeared when upgrading to a new windows version, is reverting not an option? Also, maybe it's I/O related. Does this happen if you move a file elsewhere (other drive, USB thumbstick, network share...) and try to open it from there? Trying this might help finding the cause of the problem (or provide a temporary workaround) -- Cley Faye http://cleyfaye.net/ -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email] Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/LibreOffice-Calc-fails-to-load-spreadsheets-after-upgrade-to-Windows-8-1-tp4081049p4081051.html To unsubscribe from LibreOffice Calc fails to load spreadsheets after upgrade to Windows 8.1, click here. NAML -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/LibreOffice-Calc-fails-to-load-spreadsheets-after-upgrade-to-Windows-8-1-tp4081049p4081215.html Sent from the Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Creating LibreOffice Calc document from XML (or some other file?)
On Sun, Nov 03, 2013 20:47:09 PM +0100, Mario Splivalo wrote: Hi, all. Once in the past I stumbled upon a blog where owner explained how one can create a Calc document from the data that's in the XML file. Hi Mario, not sure if it's **my** blog you stumbled upon, but here it is: http://freesoftware.zona-m.net/tag/odf-scripting/ HTH, Marco -- Percloud: 100% Free Software personal cloud http://per-cloud.com -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Creating LibreOffice Calc document from XML (or some other file?)
On 03/11/2013, Mario Splivalo ma...@splivalo.hr wrote:
Hi, all.
Once in the past I stumbled upon a blog where owner explained how one
can create a Calc document from the data that's in the XML file. I'm not
sure if XML contained only the data which then populated the Calc
template, or the whole Calc data was in that XML (not even sure if the
source was XML or was it some other human-readable file), but I haven't
been able to locate that blog ever since.
The web is like a river; catch that fish when you see it, or it will
be gone forever! :)
I'd appreciate any info or pointers on how above mentioned can be achieved.
Create a flat ods file ('spreadsheet.fods') and examine the xml; you
could use xslt to convert your xml to a spreadsheet.
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[libreoffice-users] Re: Engaging Users in the LibreOffice Project
Hi, Paul, On 11/3/13 1:53 PM, Paul wrote: Hi Ken, Before you can say any program *is* serious competition, you have to determine which products, or product levels, you are going to compare. Office is available in many forms, similar to the different levels of comfort/convenience packages in automobiles. LO comes in just one flavor. Kingsoft Office in 2 flavors. Chocolate and Vanilla. OK, that's not quite right. LOL Ok, granted, but when someones says MS Office (like you did) I happen to think primarily of Word and Excel. I'll even normally consider that Powerpoint and Access are in there. When I say MS Office, I'm always talking Pro, since I include having Access as part of the meaning of the phrase. We both made the same error of not being exactly clear about the contents of MS Office. It's like talking about a 2013 Prius. When it came out, there was only one model, and when you said Prius, everyone knew which car you meant. Now, I think there are 5 Prius models, so everyone needs to know which model you are discussing. I don't consider OneNote (never used it, no idea what it is), I just looked at OneNote, it's like a massive sticky note on steroids. It looks like you can stick any kind of document, file, handwritten notes, audio files, all in the same sticky note. Look like it's part word processor, part spreadsheet, part just about anything you can think of. This looks like it could be a great thing if you're part of a team and in the brainstorming stage. Everyone can add their own thoughts, notes, files, audio clips, I have no idea what else. LO has nothing like this. In fact, I've never seen anything like it. Outlook or Publisher to be part of that package. That may be old fashioned of me, but I don't recall ever having an MS Office version that came with Publisher. That was always in one of the premium, too-expensive-to-even-consider packages. Outlook and Publisher used to be available only as standalone packages. They weren't part of Office Professional 4.3 (Windows for Workgroups days), but it's part of Office Professional 2003. And I'd never even heard of SkyDrive till now. Basically, I consider it MS's answer to Apple's iCloud. I don't know the specifics of either systems as I don't use either one. AFAIK, anyone can use SkyDrive, you don't have to have MSO of any flavor. Just an MS account for Windows Live, or whatever they call it now. I'll grant you that a lot of people do use Outlook as part of the package, and it is more than just an email client, but for me it's a different application altogether, and not what I typically think of when I think of an office suite. At one time, I used Outlook 2007 as my email client. Simply installed only that program from my copy of Office Professional 2007. G Everyone is free to consider the contents of Office however they want. But, if it's going to be part of a discussion, then people need to be specific about what they are talking about so there's no confusion. So I finally see your real argument (the bugs and stuff, as I said, being a red herring): No other office suite, LO included, can compete against the full spectrum of software provided by the premium version of MS Office. I have to agree with that. In another post or two, I stipulated that LO and Office Home and Business were competitive. Now that I've read about OneNote, and have an inkling about it's potential, I have to take that statement back. I think LO lags behind just a bit. That said, personally, I would still regard LO as serious competition to MS Office. LOL But, which version of MS Office! G The mindset of must use MS Office, because everybody else uses it is the greatest barrier to uptake of *anything* but MSO, but I believe enough people are starting to shift out of that mindset. You won't get any argument about the mindset from me. None at all. And you certainly don't want to be replacing I have to have MSO ???) with I have to have LO. But if you are truly going to avoid any mindset, you have to be willing to consider other office suite options. There's all the heritage that LO belongs to, and that includes Open Office, Lotus Symphony, and Oxygen Office, all of which I know little about. Maybe there's others, I don't know. Plus other office suites, such as Ashampoo, Alantis, Ssuite, Softmaker Office, Abiword, Crystal Office, SS Office (aka Ssuite I've mentioned), Papyrus, Kingsoft, and who knows how many others. I tried the word processor for SS Office a few weeks ago, I really liked the interface. But I didn't try to get serious with it as there's no Mac version. I went on a search for MSO alternatives one time, can you tell? LOL If considering an alternative, the correct way to look for something is to sit down, take your time, and analyze what you are currently doing with MSO, any package. Then download and try out the alternatives, and pick the one that
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Engaging Users in the LibreOffice Project
On 11/03/2013 06:53 PM, Robert Holtzman wrote: FUD and absurd statements will take LO nowhere. FUD you say? Pot meet kettle. What he does not want to admit is that I am speaking from personal experience. jonathon * English - detected * English * English javascript:void(0); -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Engaging Users in the LibreOffice Project
On 11/03/2013 06:32 PM, Stefan Weigel wrote: Access --LO Base Base does not replace Access and it´s not meant to do so. The dBase 3 clone was not removed when Base was added to LO. I reinstalled LO and AOO earlier this week. When doing my usual customizations, I noticed that in the database part of .config, the same filename was used for the file in it, as was used when dBase was the only database engine included in OOo. I'll assume that that is the same dBase file, and that both AOO and LO still include the internal clone dBase engine. jonathon -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Creating LibreOffice Calc document from XML (or some other file?)
On 2013-11-04 11:57, M. Fioretti wrote: On Sun, Nov 03, 2013 20:47:09 PM +0100, Mario Splivalo wrote: Hi, all. Once in the past I stumbled upon a blog where owner explained how one can create a Calc document from the data that's in the XML file. Hi Mario, not sure if it's **my** blog you stumbled upon, but here it is: http://freesoftware.zona-m.net/tag/odf-scripting/ HTH, Marco Hi. There is also this quite old one here too. http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/xml/tutorials/x-xsltopenoff/ steve -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Engaging Users in the LibreOffice Project
On 11/03/2013 04:32 PM, Ken Springer wrote: Using a feature by feature comparison, there is no way LO or Kingsoft is serious competition for Office Pro. A point you are missing, is that even in a corporate environment, all of the parts offered by MSO Pro are not needed by all of the employees who use the office suite. If it was cheaper for the company to buy three quarters of the staff MSO home edition, and a quarter MSO business edition, and a quarter MSO Pro, they would do that. Microsoft's cheapest business license is for MSO Pro. Assuming it is still offered, the most expensive license is for MSO Enterprise edition. If you want to compare office suite with office suite, MSO Enterprise Edition is the only thing on the market, that offers all of the programs, from the same software maker. All of the other, similar solutions, use packages form several different software vendors. ( I don't know if Microsoft still offers MSO Enterprise Edition. Back when the business I was working at looked at it, it was not listed on the Microsoft Product Page alongside the other MSO offerings.) If you want to entice people to switch from Product X to LO, you not only have to be as good as Product X, you have to be a Helluva lot better. To be serious competition, you just have to be roughly as good. Those are standards I do not accept. You should aspire to be the best you can be, not just good enough. Yugos were good enough. Good enough is the mortal enemy of superior. Au contraire, my friend, as I just pointed out with the charts above, LO is competition to the mid-level version of Office only. For 80% of the MSO user base, MSO Pro is overkill, which is why LO is a more appropriate option that MSO Pro. Ford doesn't just compete with Chevy, they compete with Honda, Toyota, BMW, Volkswagen, Mini-Cooper, ET. AL. At least you didn't put Lamborghini in that list. As noted above, I've listed why LO is not serious competition except for a single version of Office. You do realize that Microsoft has stated several times, in public, that OOo was the direct cause of their lower earnings, and reduced profitability, don't you. As such, even if it was only one version of MSO that you consider it competitive with, it took enough marketshare away from Microsoft, that they decided it was better to offer their product gratis, with embedded advertising, than to compete on the basis of features within the product. jonathon -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: Engaging Users in the LibreOffice Project
On 11/3/13 6:49 PM, jonathon wrote: On 11/03/2013 04:32 PM, Ken Springer wrote: Using a feature by feature comparison, there is no way LO or Kingsoft is serious competition for Office Pro. A point you are missing, is that even in a corporate environment, all of the parts offered by MSO Pro are not needed by all of the employees who use the office suite. But in total, all parts offered by MSO Pro may be used by someone in the company. Regardless, that's irrelevant to the discussion. That discussion is which MSO offering is LO nearest to. If it was cheaper for the company to buy three quarters of the staff MSO home edition, and a quarter MSO business edition, and a quarter MSO Pro, they would do that. But they can't. So it's moot. Microsoft's cheapest business license is for MSO Pro. Assuming it is still offered, the most expensive license is for MSO Enterprise edition. MSO Enterprise may be available, but it's not on the website. Didn't spend a lot of time searching, but found no Enterprise 2013. If you want to compare office suite with office suite, MSO Enterprise Edition is the only thing on the market, that offers all of the programs, from the same software maker. All of the other, similar solutions, use packages form several different software vendors. I'm missing something here, would you expand on this? ( I don't know if Microsoft still offers MSO Enterprise Edition. Back when the business I was working at looked at it, it was not listed on the Microsoft Product Page alongside the other MSO offerings.) If you want to entice people to switch from Product X to LO, you not only have to be as good as Product X, you have to be a Helluva lot better. To be serious competition, you just have to be roughly as good. Those are standards I do not accept. You should aspire to be the best you can be, not just good enough. Yugos were good enough. Good enough is the mortal enemy of superior. Not in the long run, if you want to be, for lack of a better phrase, in first place. Sooner or later, someone kicks your butt off the pedestal. Au contraire, my friend, as I just pointed out with the charts above, LO is competition to the mid-level version of Office only. For 80% of the MSO user base, MSO Pro is overkill, which is why LO is a more appropriate option that MSO Pro. That depends on the users needs. While I agree with your many will buy Pro when it's not needed, that's also irrelevant to the discussion. Ford doesn't just compete with Chevy, they compete with Honda, Toyota, BMW, Volkswagen, Mini-Cooper, ET. AL. At least you didn't put Lamborghini in that list. Dang, I knew there was one I missed.LOL As noted above, I've listed why LO is not serious competition except for a single version of Office. You do realize that Microsoft has stated several times, in public, that OOo was the direct cause of their lower earnings, and reduced profitability, don't you. So? How is that relevant to a discussion/comparison of features? All that statement does is confirms Paul's assertion that the mindset of you have to have MS Office is weakening. As such, even if it was only one version of MSO that you consider it competitive with, it took enough marketshare away from Microsoft, that they decided it was better to offer their product gratis, with embedded advertising, than to compete on the basis of features within the product. Which MSO product is gratis? There's a price tag for all 4 packages of MSO, but there's is a first month free trial period for Office 365 after which it's a monthly subscription fee. I couldn't tell if that process is one that requires you to expressly cancel the subscription or not. http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/buy/compare-microsoft-office-products-FX102898564.aspx -- Ken Mac OS X 10.8.5 Firefox 24.0 Thunderbird 17.0.8 LibreOffice 4.1.2.3 -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Pivot table style Pivot Table Field
What does this style apply to, I have determined through experimentation what the other five Pivot Table ... styles apply to but modifying this one doesn't seem to affect anything. -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Pivot-table-style-Pivot-Table-Field-tp4081234.html Sent from the Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: Creating LibreOffice Calc document from XML (or some other file?)
Le 03/11/2013 20:47, Mario Splivalo a écrit : Hi Mario, It is unfortunate, but Excel does a far better job of importing/opening random XML files than LO. I download XML files from a public administration I work with, and in Excel I can just open them by double-clicking on them. Excel creates an on-the-fly ad-hoc namespace for the document if it doesn't recognize the namespace of the XML or doesn't have an import filter for it, and also preserves the tree structure of the elements and attributes, using the elements as filter headers. Quite simply put, this is brilliant. LO, on the otherhand, imports everything as simple text and dumps it willy-nilly into the spreadsheet in the first column, losing all element/attribute information. If you want the same thing in LO, you have to design and implement a separate XSLT filter for each XML type that you want to open... Alex -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: LibreOffice 4.1.2 and Mac OS X 10.9 (Mavericks)
Le 25/10/2013 14:35, Ken Springer a écrit : Hi Ken, I have Mountain Lion installed with two boot partitions. I wonder if, destroying one by Mavericks would also destroy the ability to boot from the other partition. No, it doesn't and this is what saved me in the end. On my Mac mini I had two hard disks, and Mavericks installed itself in the end on the second one, overwriting the backup I had on it without telling me in advance (nice). After several reboots, I can now actually use a cordless mouse and my keyboard has been recognized again (why, I don't know). I can now even read the data on my old OSX installation drive, but not write to it. I see that the Mavericks installation created a folder there with disk images and other data in it, which I shall remove after saving it to external storage. At least I can now copy the contents of my old Applications folder to the new installation Applications folder. I have to say, this has been the worst OSX upgrade I've ever had the misfortune to suffer. Had I only had one disk, I would've been well and truly stuffed. Alex -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Creating LibreOffice Calc document from XML (or some other file?)
On 11/03/2013 11:57 PM, M. Fioretti wrote: On Sun, Nov 03, 2013 20:47:09 PM +0100, Mario Splivalo wrote: Hi, all. Once in the past I stumbled upon a blog where owner explained how one can create a Calc document from the data that's in the XML file. Hi Mario, not sure if it's **my** blog you stumbled upon, but here it is: http://freesoftware.zona-m.net/tag/odf-scripting/ HA! This might very well be it! Thank you, Marco! :) I appreciate all the comments, I'll figure something out. At this time using that pypy library I pasted earlier seems like the most viable solutoin - I will update the list once I have my solution ready. Thank you all. Mario -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
