Re: [libreoffice-users] mongodb and base
On Mon, 17 Nov 2014 09:31:39 -0500 Eric e...@esjworks.com wrote: [snip] not yet, I just detest sql and am campaigning to relegate it to COBOL status. (something you never admit to knowing or using :) Good luck with that. Probably has less chance of success than my Quixotic campaigns to get the U.S. to switch to the metric system, to get Michiganians to stop referring to themselves as Michiganders, to get businesses to stop appending those inane confidentiality/proprietary warnings to emailo and to make the display of Baby On Board signs an offence punishable by time in the stocks :). As an aside: I think SQL rocks. Regards, Jim -- Note: My mail server employs *very* aggressive anti-spam filtering. If you reply to this email and your email is rejected, please accept my apologies and let me know via my web form at http://jimsun.LinxNet.com/contact/scform.php. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Comments on pdf file size in 4.4 alpha; and a new bug?
Hi :) I think there might be a few different things going on there. Firstly i have no idea how the devs think or work. Clearly they think very differently from most users. What seems obvious and makes sense to us is clearly 'wrong'. To me, i'd agree with you, that if it's annoying in one branch and still exists in the next then it's likely to be annoying in that branch too. Clearly the devs don't think like that at all. Trying to argue the point is likely to get you in trouble here. It's one of the reasons i am under moderation or even chucked off mailing lists here. What normal users, like us, tend to think of as bugs or stability issues is often technically called something else. So far i can only think of 5 but i'm sure there are more. The most frequent type of 'bug' reported by normal users is often really a broken feature. That is very different from what the devs would call a bug, as far as i can make out. It's certainly NOT a stability issue. Very few bugs are anything to do with stability. So when something is broken we have to try to figure out whether the devs would call it; 1. something that behaves differently from certain other programs (but the LO way might well be better) 2. something behaving weirdly 3. something that changed behaviour 4. a broken feature/thing 5. a bug or 6. a bug causing a stability issue Sometimes there is no practical difference between 1 and 2 or it might be just a difference of opinion, ie immensely long and argumentative threads. We rarely discuss items such as 3 because we mostly just adapt or new people are unaware it used to be any different. Sometimes it's intriguing or interesting. Occasionally a change in behaviour only happens to 1 person and indicates weird things going wrong which all gets fixed by renaming the User Profile. More usually it's a positive thing that a few people find annoying but most people either don't care or find it an improvement. (like when some obscure graphs got smoothed out in a better way that gave better results and looked nicer (i think in 3.4.0)). Mostly what we get here is 4. A long running feature/thing suddenly stops working in a new branch. We try renaming the User Profile jic it's that (despite it seeming really unlikely) and post a bug-report only to find we gets loads of aggro from devs telling us to fix it ourselves or that individuals should pay to get it fixed. Sometimes it gets all bitter and unnecessary blaming individuals who are all trying to do a good job but that sometimes leads to unexpected complications out in the wild. Maybe we should post these as feature requests and pretend that it's new in order to avoid hurting anyone's feelings? Very occasionally we get a real 5 but it's actually quite unusual, and quite difficult to spot since everything else is also called by the same name by most normal users. We seem to get a real 6 much more often than a real 5 but then it turns out to be a Java or other 3rd party issue. We still quite often help fix it. I think one time it turned out to be a wobbly graphics card and another time a defective fan but usually it's just a case or trying a different version of either Java or LibreOffice. Unfortunately pretty much all those things can only be reported by posting a bug-report. Feature requests use the bug-reporting systems. In that system one of the drop-downs has an option labelled feature request. We can often help with most of them, especially 1 and 2 and even 6 but the only route to escalate problems is to post a bug-report. I tried liaising with other mailing lists to see if they could help with other issues but it earned me a bad reputation so i wouldn't advise it! Now is the ideal time to take the 4.4.0 for a test-drive. It's the number 1 time that the most devs are looking for problems in the new branch. It's also THE best time to get stuff fixed. New stuff is still fresh in people's minds so they might instinctively put their finger right on the source of the problem even if the code seems fine to everyone else. So, please do take the 4.4.0 for a test-drive now and post bug-reports about whatever you find (maybe ask here first maybe) even if it doesn't really seem to be a bug and seems to fall into one of the other categories i made-up on the spot there or some other not-quite-a-bug-really type category. This is also a good time to join in with the QA team to help do routine office type work to help make sure the different bugs are all neatly filed and stuff so that the devs can focus on the coding rather than getting bogged won with filing and routine stuff. Regards from Tom :) On 21 November 2014 20:07, CVAlkan fobe...@enteract.com wrote: Hi: I'm using 64 bit Ubuntu 14.04 with a parallel installation of LibreOffice Version: 4.4.0.0.alpha2+ Build ID: d273a60bfdbf9bb7623bed38667ec0647753157c - TinderBox: Linux-rpm_deb-x86_64@46-TDF, Branch:master, Time: 2014-11-20_03:05:21 - Locale: en_US I installed
[libreoffice-users] Re: Comments on pdf file size in 4.4 alpha; and a new bug?
@Tom, *, Nicely put. Thanks! @CVAlkan, *, The transparency issues with PDF export in the 4.3 branch, is a reported in bugzilla, fdo#84294 https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=84294 fdo#83963 https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=83963 I believe frame transparency is fixed with current 4.4.0.0 builds (rc2, beta1) and in the dailys of master, but transparent text fields is not yet correct. Testing appreciated. Stuart -=ref=- fdo#80468 and fdo#81223 -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Comments-on-pdf-file-size-in-4-4-alpha-and-a-new-bug-tp4129842p4129891.html Sent from the Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] mongodb and base
Nice list of things to work on :-)) Wile in the metric system, you might add paper sizes (A4, A3, etc.) and the perforation of paper.. I used to work for Bell Labs, and they had as standard (!) perforation the US 3 + the US 4 holes, and we just added Europe's 4 holes, so in total there were 11 holes... Op 22 nov. 2014, om 15:15 heeft Jim Seymour het volgende geschreven: On Mon, 17 Nov 2014 09:31:39 -0500 Eric e...@esjworks.com wrote: [snip] not yet, I just detest sql and am campaigning to relegate it to COBOL status. (something you never admit to knowing or using :) Good luck with that. Probably has less chance of success than my Quixotic campaigns to get the U.S. to switch to the metric system, to get Michiganians to stop referring to themselves as Michiganders, to get businesses to stop appending those inane confidentiality/proprietary warnings to emailo and to make the display of Baby On Board signs an offence punishable by time in the stocks :). As an aside: I think SQL rocks. Regards, Jim -- Note: My mail server employs *very* aggressive anti-spam filtering. If you reply to this email and your email is rejected, please accept my apologies and let me know via my web form at http://jimsun.LinxNet.com/contact/scform.php. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: Comments on pdf file size in 4.4 alpha; and a new bug?
Oops, correct that last... s/rc2/alpha2/ we're not that far along with the 4.4 branch. -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Comments-on-pdf-file-size-in-4-4-alpha-and-a-new-bug-tp4129842p4129893.html Sent from the Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] mongodb and base
Le 22/11/2014 16:34, Rob Jasper a écrit : I used to work for Bell Labs, and they had as standard (!) perforation the US 3 + the US 4 holes, and we just added Europe's 4 holes, so in total there were 11 holes... hole-y cow! -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Report in Base not executed
On Wed, 2014-11-19 at 10:40 +, Tom Davies wrote: Hi :) Crashing is usually due to some 3rd party Extension or some weird tangle of settings in the User Profile. Renaming the User Profile is usually fairly quick and easy, once you've figured it out first time https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/UserProfile The 2nd most likely cause has tended to be Java issues. if you are using the internal back-end on Base or using Accessibility tools such as screen-readers then there might not be much you can do except to maybe consider upgrading Java or finding a more stable version of Java. The rest of us can switch off Java dependence temporarily; Tools - Options - Advanced and if LibreOffice grumbles then switch it back on again. Most people find they can live without Java in LibreOffice and maybe even uninstall it. Generally it is always best to stick with the distro-specific tweaked versions of almost all software. Going outside of that often requires quite a bit of 'proper' linuxy experience and knowledge. It's not usually a good idea for a pointclick user like myself! However LibreOffice is one of the exceptions. it's very forgiving about it's dependencies and it's unlikely that something else is depending on a specific version of LO. It's about the only package i ever install directly from the upstream site and i have grown quite comfortable doing so. If it doesn't work out it's fairly easy to remove all the downloaded official TDF version and then reinstall your own distros version from their repos but it's unlikely you would need to. The only downside is that you have to remember to upgrade it yourself. Many of us don't even upgrade once a year, despite official recommendations, without any noticeable problems. It is also possible to install more than 1 version of LibreOffice at a time to get the best of both worlds https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Installing_in_parallel I have submitted a bug to bugzilla for this after being advised to by 'wolfi32'. Cheers Harvey -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] mongodb and base
On 11/22/2014 10:34 AM, Rob Jasper wrote: I used to work for Bell Labs, and they had as standard (!) perforation the US 3 + the US 4 holes, and we just added Europe's 4 holes, so in total there were 11 holes... Was there any paper left? ;-) -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: writer: master doc from template not accepting changes to template
Howdy, Thanks Andreas. You put me on the right path. Saving template files and basing master doc on that template and hoping for the best in sub-docs when the template file is changes does not work out. But, using template manager extension, saving and managing a template under that extension, editing the template, and re-applying the template to previously created docs does work. And that is good enough for me. And since you asked: why am I using master doc sub docs? Well, I’m new. That just seemed like the best fit when I read the Writer help guide. I’m not confident this is the best strategy, and I’m open to other ideas. My goal is to share a chapter (or a chapter part) with a peer / review group in email. So I want that doc to be a standalone doc each week. Then I’ll incorporate suggested edits and move on to next chapter (or chapter part). I’ll be the author of the entirety of the book, so having multiple authors is a non-goal for me. I’m only into chapter 3 so far… so just starting out. I expect my book to get quite long. Perhaps “Lord of the Rings” would serve as an upper bound to the scale (I will not write something that large)… 500,000 words, 60ish chapters, 3 books with 2 parts each. Ricky Charlet --- They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjiman Franklin -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/writer-master-doc-from-template-not-accepting-changes-to-template-tp4129776p4129924.html Sent from the Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] mongodb and base
I don't want to try and tell you your business, but I had a few thoughts on your mail: On Mon, 17 Nov 2014 09:18:43 -0500 Eric e...@esjworks.com wrote: On 11/16/2014 5:16 PM, Jaroslaw Staniek wrote: Do you have use cases? I'm preping to talk to a real estate title authority. they have 60+years of title info in the area and it is all held in informix. That's a lot of data. And Informix is a real workhorse of a database. Arbitrarily shifting to MongoDB and Base just doesn't sound like a well though out decision... Base doesn't strike me as a rock solid, serious solution, but that might be just my perception. However, there are a few more pointers in your mail that suggest the decision may be less than considered: they generate reports on the fly (hence base) and would like to be What exactly do you mean by this? That they regularly want custom designed reports? Sounds odd. Surely they must have some idea of what they want to get out of the system on a regular basis? Otherwise it implies that they don't really know what they want the system for. And that right there would be a fundamental problem, one that no amount of engineering will solve. able to add information on properties incrementally without always rewriting the schema and go through the database conversion. A common request, but almost always a bad idea. By adding information you must mean adding fields to the database, which should always be a carefully considered decision, not an as the mood strikes decision. Assuming that such fields are purely additional data, and in no way form part of any relationships, then sure, they can be added quite easily, but the question is always who is going to go through all the current entries in the database filling in that new field? One can make the new fields nullable, and just let all old data have nulls for those new fields, but that just leaves a mess of incomplete data in the database. If they've been collecting data for the past 60+ years, they must have a pretty good idea of what data they need. Real estate data can't change that often. Yes, there may some legal reasons why they can't do this but htat is why er are talking. Legal reasons? I can't think of any. This is their data, they can do what they like with it, I should think. But I'm a technical guy, not a legal guy, so I really have little idea. All I *can* tell you is that from a technical standpoint this sounds like a nightmare waiting to bite you in the posterior later. And the fact that you think there may be legal issues may indicate a misunderstanding about what it is the client is trying to do. personally, I am an order of magnitude more effective with mongo than any sql database. mongo maps better to my mind than sql. I'd like a base connection so I can be more effective in my ad-hoc db tools At a fundamental level, it sounds like the problem is with the concept, not the implementation. I'd go back to the drawing board on this one. Rethink what your client wants to do, and from there use proper tools to implement it. Much as I am a fan of LO, I just can't recommend Base as a tool for serious work in the order of 60+ years of data in an Informix database. But then again, you know what the client wants, I don't. And as you're the one who has to do the work, you will need to decide how closely you want to stick with what you're familiar with. And one assumes you're the guy who has to live with the decisions. So if you want MongoDB and Base, I'm sure someone will be able to point you in the right direction. Unfortunately I can't, as I have no experience with MongoDB. I just thought I'd point out what seems like a mess. You might well have thought it through thoroughly, and this advice may be unwarranted and unwanted, and if so I apologise, but I felt it better to offer caution than to let you step blindly into harm's way. It's entirely your call of course, but, given that I've done these sorts of systems for a living for quite a few years, your description raised warnings when parsed through my experience filter, and I felt I should tell you about it. Paul -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] mongodb and base
On 23/11/14 09:53, Paul wrote: I don't want to try and tell you your business, but I had a few thoughts on your mail: On Mon, 17 Nov 2014 09:18:43 -0500 Eric e...@esjworks.com wrote: On 11/16/2014 5:16 PM, Jaroslaw Staniek wrote: Do you have use cases? I'm preping to talk to a real estate title authority. they have 60+years of title info in the area and it is all held in informix. That's a lot of data. And Informix is a real workhorse of a database. Arbitrarily shifting to MongoDB and Base just doesn't sound like a well though out decision... Base doesn't strike me as a rock solid, serious solution, but that might be just my perception. However, there are a few more pointers in your mail that suggest the decision may be less than considered: they generate reports on the fly (hence base) and would like to be What exactly do you mean by this? That they regularly want custom designed reports? Sounds odd. Surely they must have some idea of what they want to get out of the system on a regular basis? Otherwise it implies that they don't really know what they want the system for. And that right there would be a fundamental problem, one that no amount of engineering will solve. able to add information on properties incrementally without always rewriting the schema and go through the database conversion. A common request, but almost always a bad idea. By adding information you must mean adding fields to the database, which should always be a carefully considered decision, not an as the mood strikes decision. Assuming that such fields are purely additional data, and in no way form part of any relationships, then sure, they can be added quite easily, but the question is always who is going to go through all the current entries in the database filling in that new field? One can make the new fields nullable, and just let all old data have nulls for those new fields, but that just leaves a mess of incomplete data in the database. If they've been collecting data for the past 60+ years, they must have a pretty good idea of what data they need. Real estate data can't change that often. Yes, there may some legal reasons why they can't do this but htat is why er are talking. Legal reasons? I can't think of any. This is their data, they can do what they like with it, I should think. But I'm a technical guy, not a legal guy, so I really have little idea. All I *can* tell you is that from a technical standpoint this sounds like a nightmare waiting to bite you in the posterior later. And the fact that you think there may be legal issues may indicate a misunderstanding about what it is the client is trying to do. personally, I am an order of magnitude more effective with mongo than any sql database. mongo maps better to my mind than sql. I'd like a base connection so I can be more effective in my ad-hoc db tools At a fundamental level, it sounds like the problem is with the concept, not the implementation. I'd go back to the drawing board on this one. Rethink what your client wants to do, and from there use proper tools to implement it. Much as I am a fan of LO, I just can't recommend Base as a tool for serious work in the order of 60+ years of data in an Informix database. But then again, you know what the client wants, I don't. And as you're the one who has to do the work, you will need to decide how closely you want to stick with what you're familiar with. And one assumes you're the guy who has to live with the decisions. So if you want MongoDB and Base, I'm sure someone will be able to point you in the right direction. Unfortunately I can't, as I have no experience with MongoDB. I just thought I'd point out what seems like a mess. You might well have thought it through thoroughly, and this advice may be unwarranted and unwanted, and if so I apologise, but I felt it better to offer caution than to let you step blindly into harm's way. It's entirely your call of course, but, given that I've done these sorts of systems for a living for quite a few years, your description raised warnings when parsed through my experience filter, and I felt I should tell you about it. Paul I read this e-mail with interest. Paul has raised some very serious points that need consideration. Unless the clients have fully defined their requirements, including any special reporting needs the implementation of this system with any data base software will be problematic. Good data base design requires a properly thought out and detailed requirements documentation. While regarding software as engineering may not be popular, the general attitude of just lets code it on the fly leads to enormous problems which can be much more expensive to fix than spending time on getting a decent requirements document, software design document, test plan and acceptance documentation, plans for quality assurance and management and description of the operational use of the software. These items are all essential in the
Re: [libreoffice-users] Comments on pdf file size in 4.4 alpha; and a new bug?
On Saturday, 22 November 2014 8:39 PM, Tom Davies tomc...@gmail.com wrote: Hi :) I think there might be a few different things going on there. Firstly i have no idea how the devs think or work. Clearly they think very differently from most users. What seems obvious and makes sense to us is clearly 'wrong'. To me, i'd agree with you, that if it's annoying in one branch and still exists in the next then it's likely to be annoying in that branch too. Clearly the devs don't think like that at all. Trying to argue the point is likely to get you in trouble here. It's one of the reasons i am under moderation or even chucked off mailing lists here. What normal users, like us, tend to think of as bugs or stability issues is often technically called something else. So far i can only think of 5 but i'm sure there are more. The most frequent type of 'bug' reported by normal users is often really a broken feature. That is very different from what the devs would call a bug, as far as i can make out. It's certainly NOT a stability issue. Very few bugs are anything to do with stability. So when something is broken we have to try to figure out whether the devs would call it; 1. something that behaves differently from certain other programs (but the LO way might well be better) 2. something behaving weirdly 3. something that changed behaviour 4. a broken feature/thing 5. a bug or 6. a bug causing a stability issue Sometimes there is no practical difference between 1 and 2 or it might be just a difference of opinion, ie immensely long and argumentative threads. We rarely discuss items such as 3 because we mostly just adapt or new people are unaware it used to be any different. Sometimes it's intriguing or interesting. Occasionally a change in behaviour only happens to 1 person and indicates weird things going wrong which all gets fixed by renaming the User Profile. More usually it's a positive thing that a few people find annoying but most people either don't care or find it an improvement. (like when some obscure graphs got smoothed out in a better way that gave better results and looked nicer (i think in 3.4.0)). Mostly what we get here is 4. A long running feature/thing suddenly stops working in a new branch. We try renaming the User Profile jic it's that (despite it seeming really unlikely) and post a bug-report only to find we gets loads of aggro from devs telling us to fix it ourselves or that individuals should pay to get it fixed. Sometimes it gets all bitter and unnecessary blaming individuals who are all trying to do a good job but that sometimes leads to unexpected complications out in the wild. Maybe we should post these as feature requests and pretend that it's new in order to avoid hurting anyone's feelings? Very occasionally we get a real 5 but it's actually quite unusual, and quite difficult to spot since everything else is also called by the same name by most normal users. We seem to get a real 6 much more often than a real 5 but then it turns out to be a Java or other 3rd party issue. We still quite often help fix it. I think one time it turned out to be a wobbly graphics card and another time a defective fan but usually it's just a case or trying a different version of either Java or LibreOffice. Unfortunately pretty much all those things can only be reported by posting a bug-report. Feature requests use the bug-reporting systems. In that system one of the drop-downs has an option labelled feature request. We can often help with most of them, especially 1 and 2 and even 6 but the only route to escalate problems is to post a bug-report. I tried liaising with other mailing lists to see if they could help with other issues but it earned me a bad reputation so i wouldn't advise it! Now is the ideal time to take the 4.4.0 for a test-drive. It's the number 1 time that the most devs are looking for problems in the new branch. It's also THE best time to get stuff fixed. New stuff is still fresh in people's minds so they might instinctively put their finger right on the source of the problem even if the code seems fine to everyone else. So, please do take the 4.4.0 for a test-drive now and post bug-reports about whatever you find (maybe ask here first maybe) even if it doesn't really seem to be a bug and seems to fall into one of the other categories i made-up on the spot there or some other not-quite-a-bug-really type category. This is also a good time to join in with the QA team to help do routine office type work to help make sure the different bugs are all neatly filed and stuff so that the devs can focus on the coding rather than getting bogged won with filing and routine stuff. Regards from Tom :) very well said. +1 regards, som -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List
