Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Page formatting in writer goes nuts

[Denis J. Navas]

I adjust the following option.

Menu: Tools -- Options -- LibreOffice Writer -- Automatic caption -- 
untick "LibreOffice Writer image"


After that, when I copy an image it get a character anchor, but if I 
insert an image from a file on disk it gets a paragraph anchor.




El 2016-09-09 a las 02:30, Wiebe van der Worp escribió:

On 09-09-16 09:21, Denis Navas Vega wrote:

LibreOffice by
default anchor the images to the paragraph, which is good, but the
figure frames allows text flowing around the image. But if you insert
the image and not instruct LibreOffice to add a frame, will add it
anchored to a character.


Can you clarify how you do "not instruct LO to add a frame" to get it 
anchored as character?


If one adds an image in an out of the box new document (insert > 
image), the frame style is "graphics". Changing this style to "no 
wrap" is a logical step, but that is not what you mean, right?


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Consultor
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☎ claro+505 8357 – 0296



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Re: [libreoffice-users] Page formatting in writer goes nuts

[Wiebe van der Worp]

On 09-09-16 21:40, Bo Siltberg wrote:

May it is time to file a bug report in the hope that this can be corrected.
I hope I am free to attach your example as well?


Feel free to do so. I really hope it helps stressing the subject.

I've added the text below to the bug report of Bruce and reopened it - 
https://www.libreoffice.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=79234


=

I really do pity that that this described bug is not solved after so 
many years. By writing this, I hope it helps getting the attention it needs.


This text describes a bug in LibreOffice Writer (and OpenOffice), 
concerning stopping re-paginating before a proper - intended - layout is 
generated.


This bug concerns all users. More specific, it concerns all users that 
write longer documents with objects like images where text flow is not 
set to "no wrap".


As suggested, a general accepted work around is to omit text flowing 
around objects. This can be achieved by anchoring objects "as character" 
while setting wrapping to "no wrap". This way very large documents can 
be generated, such as the official LibreOffice documentation.


This solution has three major drawbacks: First, it is impossible to 
optimize layouts, create richer and more reader friendly layouts. 
Second, because of the introduced white spaces left and or right from 
the object, it costs a lot more paper when printing documents with this 
work around. Third, settings like anchoring as character and no wrapping 
are not default settings, making users run into problems unexpected, 
without them having a clue why their document is screwed up.


When normal documents with objects grow in time, there is a point where 
the background re-paginating process stops unexpected without finishing 
rearranging the layout. At this point, Tools > Update... doesn't work, 
while the menu pull down item remains visible, suggesting an unfinished 
re-paginating process. When the document is saved, closed and opened, 
the layout is properly restored in most cases. However, when the 
document grows further, there is a point in time where the layout of the 
document is permanently broken. Without the knowledge of the workarounds 
- and even with this knowledge - it chases power users away from 
LibreOffice.


Typical symptoms of this bug are initial well re-paginated pages, 
followed by blanc pages and or blanc parts of pages.


This bug is easy to reproduce, simply by adding text and objects in a 
default way to a default document.


There seem to be much noise around this subject. One of them is the use 
of too large bitmap objects. Another one that may be, or not, is this 
one: media.vanderworp.org/.dot/.lo/test_s03e24.odt. This may be related, 
I don't know. Main thing is that the focus should be on re-paginating of 
larger documents. A small twenty page text-document with objects in the 
form of complete empty frames is enough to illustrate the problem. For 
example, if a TOC is added at page 1 and two heading levels are used, 
then editing and updating the TOC, toggling between 1 and 2 levels will 
let re-paginating go south.


In large documents, such as instruction manuals or educational works, 
like the official LibreOffice manuals , it is highly desirable that 
objects, such as pictures and quotes, are an integrated part of the text 
components. This bug makes that integration impossible.


I have some test documents that illustrate the problems. 
media.vanderworp.org/.dot/.lo/test_s02e15.odt is an example for creating 
re-paginating errors. If I can be of further assistance, let me know. On 
the global users mailing list there are multiple threads about the subject.




--
Met vriendelijke groet,

Wiebe van der Worp


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Re: [libreoffice-users] Page formatting in writer goes nuts

[Bo Siltberg]

Thank you, I tried your document and it indeed demonstrated an unpleasant
behaviour.
May it is time to file a bug report in the hope that this can be corrected.
I hope I am free to attach your example as well?


2016-09-09 21:07 GMT+02:00 Wiebe van der Worp :

> On 07-09-16 20:57, Bo Siltberg wrote:
>
> I was able to delete all other text in this document and still reproduce
>> the error. That's good. (The screen shots were taken before that.) I have
>> uploaded this mini version of the LO Users Guide
>>  where
>> this
>> error can be reproduced, at least by me. I would appreciate if someone
>> else
>> could confirm the behaviour that I see. Just place the cursor above the
>> large picture, hit enter / backspace back and forth, which sometimes will
>> make the large picture disappear. This is LO 5.1.5.2 but I do see the
>> problem in 5.2 as well.
>>
>
> I could reproduce the behaviour as you described. It is odd that the big
> frame plus picture cover the margins, but that doesn't seem to be the
> problem.
>
> The picture below is anchored as paragraph and that "explains" the
> behaviour, magical disappearance, after giving an enter.
>
> Anchoring the second picture as character makes it stable again. And
> making a bit more space between the picture by putting an empty paragraph
> before the anchor of the second picture works as well.
>
> It made me a bit curious, maybe the document is a bit contaminated, maybe
> something else. So what I did is saving the bitmaps, saved text as ascii,
> created a brand new document, inserted everything and, surprise, exact the
> same problem. So a one page document with two pictures is enough to get
> into trouble. Even worse, if the pictures are removed from the frame, same
> result.
>
> If you would like to give it a try: http://media.vanderworp.org/.d
> ot/.lo/test_s03e24.odt
>

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Page formatting in writer goes nuts

[Wiebe van der Worp]

On 07-09-16 20:57, Bo Siltberg wrote:


I was able to delete all other text in this document and still reproduce
the error. That's good. (The screen shots were taken before that.) I have
uploaded this mini version of the LO Users Guide
 where this
error can be reproduced, at least by me. I would appreciate if someone else
could confirm the behaviour that I see. Just place the cursor above the
large picture, hit enter / backspace back and forth, which sometimes will
make the large picture disappear. This is LO 5.1.5.2 but I do see the
problem in 5.2 as well.


I could reproduce the behaviour as you described. It is odd that the big 
frame plus picture cover the margins, but that doesn't seem to be the 
problem.


The picture below is anchored as paragraph and that "explains" the 
behaviour, magical disappearance, after giving an enter.


Anchoring the second picture as character makes it stable again. And 
making a bit more space between the picture by putting an empty 
paragraph before the anchor of the second picture works as well.


It made me a bit curious, maybe the document is a bit contaminated, 
maybe something else. So what I did is saving the bitmaps, saved text as 
ascii, created a brand new document, inserted everything and, surprise, 
exact the same problem. So a one page document with two pictures is 
enough to get into trouble. Even worse, if the pictures are removed from 
the frame, same result.


If you would like to give it a try: 
http://media.vanderworp.org/.dot/.lo/test_s03e24.odt


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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Page formatting in writer goes nuts

[Wiebe van der Worp]

On 09-09-16 09:21, Denis Navas Vega wrote:

LibreOffice by
default anchor the images to the paragraph, which is good, but the
figure frames allows text flowing around the image. But if you insert
the image and not instruct LibreOffice to add a frame, will add it
anchored to a character.


Can you clarify how you do "not instruct LO to add a frame" to get it 
anchored as character?


If one adds an image in an out of the box new document (insert > image), 
the frame style is "graphics". Changing this style to "no wrap" is a 
logical step, but that is not what you mean, right?


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[libreoffice-users] Re: Page formatting in writer goes nuts

[Denis Navas Vega]

The problem that several pictures change its place, remember me how the 
images are placed in text with the program LaTeX. That program is famous 
for being the first program (since 1979) that was able to diagram 
automatically text.


LaTeX has rules of how many diagrams are allowed in a page accounting 
the space that uses. Generally moves the graphics (or float objects) 
downstream in the text until fits acording to rules to position galleys 
of text and floating object.


LibreOffice and MS Office too, has also problems related to image 
positioning and with both programs I have reached that is preferable to 
have images not surrounded by text and positioned between paragraphs, 
fixed or anchored to characters. That's not the way as MS Office works 
by default, but that can be changed in program's options. LibreOffice by 
default anchor the images to the paragraph, which is good, but the 
figure frames allows text flowing around the image. But if you insert 
the image and not instruct LibreOffice to add a frame, will add it 
anchored to a character.





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