Re: [libreoffice-users] Downgrading
On 2012-02-22 1:12 PM, Chris Morgan ch...@lynxinfo.co.uk wrote: I am very sceptical about the so-called benefits of releasing on a strict time-schedule. The process seems to favour new features over bug fixes. I thought the old way was better - release it when it's ready. The problem with this method is - it is *never* ready (meaning, bug-free)... I like the new release schedule... it ensures that new features are introduced faster, and get better testing... everything simply speeds up. Yes, it does create some potential for breakage, but as long as you are prepared (can roll back if you get bit by a show-stopper), it shouldn't be a real problem. Also, what may be a show-stopper bug for one person is irrelevant to another (not everyone uses the same features). -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Downgrading
On 02/23/2012 08:25 AM, Tanstaafl wrote: On 2012-02-22 1:12 PM, Chris Morgan ch...@lynxinfo.co.uk wrote: I am very sceptical about the so-called benefits of releasing on a strict time-schedule. The process seems to favour new features over bug fixes. I thought the old way was better - release it when it's ready. The problem with this method is - it is *never* ready (meaning, bug-free)... I like the new release schedule... it ensures that new features are introduced faster, and get better testing... everything simply speeds up. Yes, it does create some potential for breakage, but as long as you are prepared (can roll back if you get bit by a show-stopper), it shouldn't be a real problem. Also, what may be a show-stopper bug for one person is irrelevant to another (not everyone uses the same features). Good point about show stoppers. Also, what is a minor annoyance for one may be disastrous for another because of the relative importance of the feature to each. -- Jay Lozier jsloz...@gmail.com -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Downgrading
Hi :) Hmmm, i think this argument has been endlessly discussed in many other places. A quote or 2 - Procrastination as an excuse to get it “perfect” can be your killer. Somebody really wise said - “The results you’re getting usually are not about whether you’re doing it ‘right’ or not. It’s usually about whether you’re doing ‘it’ enough.” - The best feedback you will ever get is from your users. You will never please everyone but you will never have the chance to until you release! - Wayne Gretzky said: you miss 100% of the shots you never take. Hopefully the product is good enough that people will at least try it and then perhaps care enough to put time, care and attention into tidying up ready for the next release. If it's too big a task then perhaps the next release after. Meanwhile people get a constantly improving product with an increasing amount of it having received tlc. Also it is more fun to race to meet deadlines than to find another tired lame excuse to hold everyone else's work back and leave users with all the old problems despite so many fixes being ready. Regards from Tom :) --- On Thu, 23/2/12, Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote: From: Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Downgrading To: users@global.libreoffice.org Date: Thursday, 23 February, 2012, 13:25 On 2012-02-22 1:12 PM, Chris Morgan ch...@lynxinfo.co.uk wrote: I am very sceptical about the so-called benefits of releasing on a strict time-schedule. The process seems to favour new features over bug fixes. I thought the old way was better - release it when it's ready. The problem with this method is - it is *never* ready (meaning, bug-free)... I like the new release schedule... it ensures that new features are introduced faster, and get better testing... everything simply speeds up. Yes, it does create some potential for breakage, but as long as you are prepared (can roll back if you get bit by a show-stopper), it shouldn't be a real problem. Also, what may be a show-stopper bug for one person is irrelevant to another (not everyone uses the same features). -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Downgrading
I am very sceptical about the so-called benefits of releasing on a strict time-schedule. The process seems to favour new features over bug fixes. I thought the old way was better - release it when it's ready. However, it seems to be the way things are at present, so I guess we have to live with it! cheers, Chris Chris Morgan Software Manager Lynx Information Systems Ltd Tel: +44 (0)20 8780 2634 Email: ch...@lynxinfo.co.uk Web: http://www.lynxinfo.co.uk On 21/02/2012 19:55, Don C. Myers wrote: Hi Sharon, LibreOffice is released on a time schedule. This is more fully explained here: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleasePlan Included in this document is the following: Time based release trains have been shown to produce the best quality Free software. A time based release is one that does not wait for either features, or bug fixes - but is based (as purely as possible) on time. This enforces discipline in introducing fixes, gives predictability, and allows more regular releasing. It is also the case that we will necessarily release earlier, and then rapidly, incrementally bug fix releases based on the previous stable version. Thus if you have a need for the very highest quality version, it can make sense to defer a move until the first or perhaps second minor point release. Synchronizing our time based release schedule with the wider Free Software ecosystem also has huge advantages, by getting our new features, out to users as quickly as possible - with a minimum of distribution cycle lag. In consequence, we will aim at six monthly releases, and over time nudge them to align well with the March / September norms. I generally wait until the 3.x.1 or 3.x.2 versions are out. If someone is not aware of how the release schedule for LibreOffice works, it is very easy for a person to reach the conclusion that you did that 3.5.0 wasn't adequately tested or ready for release. Don On 02/21/2012 12:02 PM, sharon kimble wrote: I have downgraded my LO program from 3.5.0 to 3.4.5, as the lack of autospellcheck and recent documents in 3.5.0 were real show stoppers, and not being able to find any workarounds. I feel that 3.5.0 was released either with inadequate testing, or before it was ready for release. No matter, its no longer a problem for me. Thank you for the experience, and all those who suggested workarounds. Sharon. Incoming and outgoing emails are checked for viruses by Sophos AntiVirus. This email may contain confidential information which is intended for the named recipient(s) only. Ã If you are not the named recipient you should not take any action in relation to this email, other than to notify us that you have received it in error. Lynx Information Systems Ltd 93-99 Upper Richmond Rd London SW15 2TG United Kingdom Web: http://www.lynxinfo.co.uk Email: l...@lynxinfo.co.uk Tel: +44 (0)20 8780 2634 Fax: +44 (0)20 8780 0931 Registered in England Number 2454130 VAT Number GB 561 8979 88 -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Downgrading
We DO have a choice; not enough people are using it. Just because a new version is released does not mean we have to download it. If enough people refuse to download it until x.x.2 or x.x.3, perhaps there would be some changes in the scheduling. Even if there is no change, we can wait until the version reaches one of these version using an earlier more stable version for our more critical work. I will continue downloading the latest version because I need to keep up with the latest version's capabilities for writing purposes. I make copies of documents that I use placing the copies in a separate folder I named, DEV. Then I can open these copies with the latest version. If anything happens to these files, no problem, they are only copies. --Dan On Wed, 2012-02-22 at 18:12 +, Chris Morgan wrote: I am very sceptical about the so-called benefits of releasing on a strict time-schedule. The process seems to favour new features over bug fixes. I thought the old way was better - release it when it's ready. However, it seems to be the way things are at present, so I guess we have to live with it! cheers, Chris Chris Morgan Software Manager Lynx Information Systems Ltd Tel: +44 (0)20 8780 2634 Email: ch...@lynxinfo.co.uk Web: http://www.lynxinfo.co.uk On 21/02/2012 19:55, Don C. Myers wrote: Hi Sharon, LibreOffice is released on a time schedule. This is more fully explained here: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleasePlan Included in this document is the following: Time based release trains have been shown to produce the best quality Free software. A time based release is one that does not wait for either features, or bug fixes - but is based (as purely as possible) on time. This enforces discipline in introducing fixes, gives predictability, and allows more regular releasing. It is also the case that we will necessarily release earlier, and then rapidly, incrementally bug fix releases based on the previous stable version. Thus if you have a need for the very highest quality version, it can make sense to defer a move until the first or perhaps second minor point release. Synchronizing our time based release schedule with the wider Free Software ecosystem also has huge advantages, by getting our new features, out to users as quickly as possible - with a minimum of distribution cycle lag. In consequence, we will aim at six monthly releases, and over time nudge them to align well with the March / September norms. I generally wait until the 3.x.1 or 3.x.2 versions are out. If someone is not aware of how the release schedule for LibreOffice works, it is very easy for a person to reach the conclusion that you did that 3.5.0 wasn't adequately tested or ready for release. Don On 02/21/2012 12:02 PM, sharon kimble wrote: I have downgraded my LO program from 3.5.0 to 3.4.5, as the lack of autospellcheck and recent documents in 3.5.0 were real show stoppers, and not being able to find any workarounds. I feel that 3.5.0 was released either with inadequate testing, or before it was ready for release. No matter, its no longer a problem for me. Thank you for the experience, and all those who suggested workarounds. Sharon. Incoming and outgoing emails are checked for viruses by Sophos AntiVirus. This email may contain confidential information which is intended for the named recipient(s) only. Ã If you are not the named recipient you should not take any action in relation to this email, other than to notify us that you have received it in error. Lynx Information Systems Ltd 93-99 Upper Richmond Rd London SW15 2TG United Kingdom Web: http://www.lynxinfo.co.uk Email: l...@lynxinfo.co.uk Tel: +44 (0)20 8780 2634 Fax: +44 (0)20 8780 0931 Registered in England Number 2454130 VAT Number GB 561 8979 88 -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Downgrading
Hi :) The release when ready approach also doesn't favour bug-fixes. It just means the development is slow. Features seldom get added. Bugs still go unfixed. If it favoured fixing bugs then there would be no bugs at all in the 3.3.x branch and OOo right? Regards from Tom :) --- On Wed, 22/2/12, Chris Morgan ch...@lynxinfo.co.uk wrote: From: Chris Morgan ch...@lynxinfo.co.uk Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Downgrading To: users@global.libreoffice.org Date: Wednesday, 22 February, 2012, 18:12 I am very sceptical about the so-called benefits of releasing on a strict time-schedule. The process seems to favour new features over bug fixes. I thought the old way was better - release it when it's ready. However, it seems to be the way things are at present, so I guess we have to live with it! cheers, Chris Chris Morgan Software Manager Lynx Information Systems Ltd Tel: +44 (0)20 8780 2634 Email: ch...@lynxinfo.co.uk Web: http://www.lynxinfo.co.uk On 21/02/2012 19:55, Don C. Myers wrote: Hi Sharon, LibreOffice is released on a time schedule. This is more fully explained here: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleasePlan Included in this document is the following: Time based release trains have been shown to produce the best quality Free software. A time based release is one that does not wait for either features, or bug fixes - but is based (as purely as possible) on time. This enforces discipline in introducing fixes, gives predictability, and allows more regular releasing. It is also the case that we will necessarily release earlier, and then rapidly, incrementally bug fix releases based on the previous stable version. Thus if you have a need for the very highest quality version, it can make sense to defer a move until the first or perhaps second minor point release. Synchronizing our time based release schedule with the wider Free Software ecosystem also has huge advantages, by getting our new features, out to users as quickly as possible - with a minimum of distribution cycle lag. In consequence, we will aim at six monthly releases, and over time nudge them to align well with the March / September norms. I generally wait until the 3.x.1 or 3.x.2 versions are out. If someone is not aware of how the release schedule for LibreOffice works, it is very easy for a person to reach the conclusion that you did that 3.5.0 wasn't adequately tested or ready for release. Don On 02/21/2012 12:02 PM, sharon kimble wrote: I have downgraded my LO program from 3.5.0 to 3.4.5, as the lack of autospellcheck and recent documents in 3.5.0 were real show stoppers, and not being able to find any workarounds. I feel that 3.5.0 was released either with inadequate testing, or before it was ready for release. No matter, its no longer a problem for me. Thank you for the experience, and all those who suggested workarounds. Sharon. Incoming and outgoing emails are checked for viruses by Sophos AntiVirus. This email may contain confidential information which is intended for the named recipient(s) only. Â If you are not the named recipient you should not take any action in relation to this email, other than to notify us that you have received it in error. Lynx Information Systems Ltd 93-99 Upper Richmond Rd London SW15 2TG United Kingdom Web: http://www.lynxinfo.co.uk Email: l...@lynxinfo.co.uk Tel: +44 (0)20 8780 2634 Fax: +44 (0)20 8780 0931 Registered in England Number 2454130 VAT Number GB 561 8979 88 -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Downgrading
I have downgraded my LO program from 3.5.0 to 3.4.5, as the lack of autospellcheck and recent documents in 3.5.0 were real show stoppers, and not being able to find any workarounds. I feel that 3.5.0 was released either with inadequate testing, or before it was ready for release. No matter, its no longer a problem for me. Thank you for the experience, and all those who suggested workarounds. Sharon. -- A taste of linux = http://www.sharons.org.uk/taste/index.html efever = http://www.efever.blogspot.com/ efever = http://sharon04.livejournal.com/ Debian 6,0.4, Gnome 1:2.30+7, LibreOffice 3.4.5 Registered Linux user 334501 -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Downgrading
Hi :) I think that is a wise move. Many people never upgrade anything until at least after the first service pack. The equivalent of that in LibreOffice is waiting for the 3.5.1. In Ubuntu it's the LTSes, in Debian it's stable branch. We all really need to test-drive the most recent releases, preferably while they are still in beta-testing, as that is when we are most likely to have the greatest impact on getting things fixed to our own personal preferences. On most machines i am still on 3.3.something, i think. On Windows it's 3.4.something-fairly-early. They all seem fine. I am kicking myself for not having tried the beta-releases of the 3.5.0 tho. Regards from Tom :) --- On Tue, 21/2/12, sharon kimble boudic...@talktalk.net wrote: From: sharon kimble boudic...@talktalk.net Subject: [libreoffice-users] Downgrading To: users@global.libreoffice.org Date: Tuesday, 21 February, 2012, 17:02 I have downgraded my LO program from 3.5.0 to 3.4.5, as the lack of autospellcheck and recent documents in 3.5.0 were real show stoppers, and not being able to find any workarounds. I feel that 3.5.0 was released either with inadequate testing, or before it was ready for release. No matter, its no longer a problem for me. Thank you for the experience, and all those who suggested workarounds. Sharon. -- A taste of linux = http://www.sharons.org.uk/taste/index.html efever = http://www.efever.blogspot.com/ efever = http://sharon04.livejournal.com/ Debian 6,0.4, Gnome 1:2.30+7, LibreOffice 3.4.5 Registered Linux user 334501 -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Downgrading
Hi, On Tuesday 21 February 2012, sharon kimble wrote: I have downgraded my LO program from 3.5.0 to 3.4.5, as the lack of autospellcheck and recent documents in 3.5.0 were real show stoppers, and not being able to find any workarounds. I feel that 3.5.0 was released either with inadequate testing, or before it was ready for release. No matter, its no longer a problem for me. Instead of a one-shot upgrade I've always been testing a new version by installing it in parallel[1] and using it for non-critical tasks for a while (2-3 months) until I was sure it does all I need. BTW, IIRC I ended up with using only OOo 2.1, 2.4, 3.1 and LibO 3.5, as none of the releases in between was usable for me :-) Nino [1] http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Installing_in_parallel -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Downgrading
Hi Sharon, LibreOffice is released on a time schedule. This is more fully explained here: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleasePlan Included in this document is the following: Time based release trains have been shown to produce the best quality Free software. A time based release is one that does not wait for either features, or bug fixes - but is based (as purely as possible) on time. This enforces discipline in introducing fixes, gives predictability, and allows more regular releasing. It is also the case that we will necessarily release earlier, and then rapidly, incrementally bug fix releases based on the previous stable version. Thus if you have a need for the very highest quality version, it can make sense to defer a move until the first or perhaps second minor point release. Synchronizing our time based release schedule with the wider Free Software ecosystem also has huge advantages, by getting our new features, out to users as quickly as possible - with a minimum of distribution cycle lag. In consequence, we will aim at six monthly releases, and over time nudge them to align well with the March / September norms. I generally wait until the 3.x.1 or 3.x.2 versions are out. If someone is not aware of how the release schedule for LibreOffice works, it is very easy for a person to reach the conclusion that you did that 3.5.0 wasn't adequately tested or ready for release. Don On 02/21/2012 12:02 PM, sharon kimble wrote: I have downgraded my LO program from 3.5.0 to 3.4.5, as the lack of autospellcheck and recent documents in 3.5.0 were real show stoppers, and not being able to find any workarounds. I feel that 3.5.0 was released either with inadequate testing, or before it was ready for release. No matter, its no longer a problem for me. Thank you for the experience, and all those who suggested workarounds. Sharon. -- *~~* Don C. Myers e-PRO Certified by the National Association of Realtors Manager, Farm and Rural Property Division *Coldwell Banker University Realty *126 East Foster Avenue, State College, PA 16801 Office Phone: 814-237-6543 Fax: 814-237-6502 Home Phone: 814-422-8111 Cell Phone: 814-571-9518 Visit the Farm and Rural Property Division Web Site at _www.cbur-ruralproperty.com http://www.cbur-ruralproperty.com/ _View Don's Farm Web Site at www.myersfarm.com http://www.myersfarm.com/ *~~* -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
