Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: 4.0.3

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
On the space station it's only the laptops that are going to have Gnu&Linux put 
on them.  All the command&control systems are already Gnu&Linux.  I was 
listening to one of the ground-crew giving instructions on what to type in and 
it was roughly like
"ls", "LS, it says ... roger"
"cd ..", "cd ..., err nothing happened, roger"
"That's ok.  it shouldn't have said anything" "[sigh of relief]"

and then a command that my network administrator had emailed to me for me to do 
on our network!!  :)))

About 80% desktop machines here have Xp, the other 20% have Win7.  All have 
Ubuntu.  So do they count as Window machines or Gnu&Linux when they have both?  
2/3 servers have Debian (including the firewall box), 1/3 is Windows Exchange 
(that's the noisy one that keeps weirding out).  The Routers and switches seem 
to use a Linux.  Most hand-helds are Android, couple Blackberry, couple 
iThings, 1 Windows phone.  

All counts are unreliable.  Most are paid-for research with MS paying the bill. 
 If a machine is bought with Windows on it and the Windows gets wiped and 
replaced by Gnu&Linux then that gets counted as a Windows machine by pretty 
much all researchers.  Hence Bug1 in Ubuntu.  
Regards from 
Tom :)  






>____
> From: James Knott 
>To: LibreOffice  
>Sent: Thursday, 1 August 2013, 12:50
>Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: 4.0.3
> 
>
>Urmas wrote:
>> According to http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey, Windows 8 is
>> working on 14% of computers.
>> It's more than 10 times Linux marketshare.
>
>Lessee now.  I have 5 computers here.  Only one has Windows on it and it
>spends most of it's time running Linux.  I have a tablet and a smart
>phone.  Both run Android (Linux).  I have a TV, A/V receiver & Bluray
>player, all running Linux.  I also have an Asus Eee PC (borrowed by a
>friend) that runs Linux and even my WiFi access point runs Linux.  Also,
>how do you get W8 is on 14% of computers, when the facts show
>otherwise?  Windows 7 and XP are both used on many more computers.  In
>fact, computer manufactures were claiming W8 was responsible for much of
>the decline in computer sales.  Look at how well Nokia is doing since
>switching to Windows Phone.  They went from industry leader to also ran.
>
>BTW, did you hear the news item recently about how all the computers on
>the International Space Station have all been converted to Linux.  Or
>how just about all the top 500 supercomputers run Linux?  Or how most of
>the servers on the Internet run Linux?  Or...
>
>You might also be interested in reading this article:
>http://opensource.com/education/13/7/linux-westcliff-high-school
>
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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: 4.0.3

[Tanstaafl]

Please don't feed the troll!

On 2013-08-01 7:57 AM, James Knott  wrote:

Urmas wrote:

It is much more better than an ODF, which documents nothing, and
depends on a reference implementation from a single vendor, Sun.

Year 1900 being a leap one is a universal convention which predates
Excel for several years.


What planet are you living on?  ODF documents are available for all to
read.  Do you know what an open standard is?  As for the 1900 bug, care
to provide some references that back that up?  Why would anyone
deliberately include a flawed function in a spreadsheet?

Here's some info on ODF, including links to specifications.
https://www.oasis-open.org/committees/tc_home.php?wg_abbrev=office




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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: 4.0.3

[James Knott]

Urmas wrote:
> It is much more better than an ODF, which documents nothing, and
> depends on a reference implementation from a single vendor, Sun.
>
> Year 1900 being a leap one is a universal convention which predates
> Excel for several years.

What planet are you living on?  ODF documents are available for all to
read.  Do you know what an open standard is?  As for the 1900 bug, care
to provide some references that back that up?  Why would anyone
deliberately include a flawed function in a spreadsheet?

Here's some info on ODF, including links to specifications.
https://www.oasis-open.org/committees/tc_home.php?wg_abbrev=office

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: 4.0.3

[James Knott]

Urmas wrote:
> According to http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey, Windows 8 is
> working on 14% of computers.
> It's more than 10 times Linux marketshare.

Lessee now.  I have 5 computers here.  Only one has Windows on it and it
spends most of it's time running Linux.  I have a tablet and a smart
phone.  Both run Android (Linux).  I have a TV, A/V receiver & Bluray
player, all running Linux.  I also have an Asus Eee PC (borrowed by a
friend) that runs Linux and even my WiFi access point runs Linux.  Also,
how do you get W8 is on 14% of computers, when the facts show
otherwise?  Windows 7 and XP are both used on many more computers.  In
fact, computer manufactures were claiming W8 was responsible for much of
the decline in computer sales.  Look at how well Nokia is doing since
switching to Windows Phone.  They went from industry leader to also ran.

BTW, did you hear the news item recently about how all the computers on
the International Space Station have all been converted to Linux.  Or
how just about all the top 500 supercomputers run Linux?  Or how most of
the servers on the Internet run Linux?  Or...

You might also be interested in reading this article:
http://opensource.com/education/13/7/linux-westcliff-high-school

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: 4.0.3

[Tanstaafl]

On 2013-08-01 7:31 AM, Andrew Brown  wrote:

Urmas

Steam is a game platform, and here's some facts from their own info web


Please don't feed the trolls

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: 4.0.3

[Andrew Brown]

Urmas

Steam is a game platform, and here's some facts from their own info web 
page - quote "As of December 2012, there are nearly 2000 games available 
through Steam,^and 54 million active user accounts. As of January 2013, 
Steam has seen over 6.6 million concurrent players. Steam has an 
estimated 50--70% share of the digital distribution market for video 
games.^ 
^ As of 
January 2013 they have 6.6 million active gamers." unquote


Note the video games part. So your stats of 14% are the measure of 
either the 54 million active accounts, or the 6.6 million active users, 
which is it. Now compare that to 1.1 billion computers around the world, 
a big difference to your percentage running Windows 8 and trying to 
compare with Linux. Linux desktop is estimated to be around 2% of the 
worlds computers, again comparable, not left behind by your stats of 
Windows 8. On the internet alone there are 10 million core major 
computer systems running Linux, and about 120 million sub servers also 
running Linux, so your 14% of 54 million compares poorly to your 
supplied stats.


And I'll quote you again with fact about Linux servers, especially the 
last paragraph!!



 Servers, mainframes and supercomputers

Servers designed for Linux

Linux distributions  
have long been used as server 
 operating 
systems, and have risen to prominence in that area; Netcraft 
 reported in September 2006 that 
eight of the ten most reliable internet hosting companies ran Linux 
distributions on their web servers 
. Since June 2008, Linux 
distributions represented five of the top ten, FreeBSD 
 three of ten, and Microsoft 
 two of ten; since February 
2010, Linux distributions represented six of the top ten, FreeBSD two of 
ten, and Microsoft one of 
ten.^


Linux distributions are the cornerstone of the LAMP 
 
server-software combination (Linux, Apache 
, MySQL 
, Perl 
/PHP 
/Python 
) which 
has achieved popularity among developers, and which is one of the more 
common platforms for website 
hosting.^


Linux distributions have become increasingly popular on mainframes in 
the last decade partly due to pricing and the open-source model. In 
December 2009, computer giant IBM  
reported that it would predominantly market and sell mainframe-based 
Enterprise Linux 
Server.^


Linux distributions are also commonly used as operating systems 
 for supercomputers 
: since November 2010, out 
of the top 500  systems, 459 
(91.8%) run a Linux distribution. Linux was also selected as the 
operating system for the world's most powerful supercomputer, IBM's 
Sequoia  which became 
operational in 2011.^


Unquote

Andrew Brown


On 01/08/2013 12:22 PM, Urmas wrote:
According to http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey, Windows 8 is 
working on 14% of computers.

It's more than 10 times Linux marketshare.








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[libreoffice-users] Re: 4.0.3

[Urmas]

Are you aware OpenXML
perpetuates that  year 1900 Excel bug and makes it standard?  Did you
know about all the non-disclosed binary blobs that are part of OpenXML?

It is much more better than an ODF, which documents nothing, and depends on 
a reference implementation from a single vendor, Sun.


Year 1900 being a leap one is a universal convention which predates Excel 
for several years.




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[libreoffice-users] Re: 4.0.3

[Urmas]

According to http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey, Windows 8 is working on 
14% of computers.

It's more than 10 times Linux marketshare.





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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: 4.0.3

[sun shine]

On 31/07/13 13:20, James Knott wrote:

Urmas wrote:

Another major reason are huge bribes given to government officials to
deploy {Libre|Open}Office solutions in budget-funding institutions
worldwide.

Actually, if you care to check the facts, it's Microsoft that's been
doing that.



+1

Urmas - if you have evidence to substantiate your claim, please share. 
Otherwise, as James writes: you have LibO confused with the dirty 
tactics employed by MS.


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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: 4.0.3

[Andrew Brown]

Hi Jomali

Agreed iOS and OSX are built from portions of BSD, as well as NextStep 
(OpenStep, once Apple bought out the Next company), but it also does not 
play a major role in mainframes and servers, but I concede it did for a 
long time dominate the tablet market, and raised the desktop and laptop 
computer level to take  a slice of the pie away from MS.


Regards

Andrew Brown

On 31/07/2013 05:02 PM, jomali wrote:

On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 4:37 AM, Andrew Brown  wrote:


And some more info and statics with charts, to refudiate your claims of
Windows XP and Vista (the latter also a disaster for MS) of combined market
share.

http://www.statista.com/**topics/823/microsoft/chart/**
799/market-share-of-selected-**windows-operating-systems/

And it shows what you know of Linux. FACT, it along with various flavours
of Unix, power the known global Internet servers, Observatories,
MET/weather offices, Space exploration, the Mars machines, the majority of
military machines/equipment, medical equipment, and lo and behold a good
number of desktop, laptops around the world, and the no.1 O/S for mobile -
Android, followed shortly by Firefox O/S and Ubuntu Touch.


You might also include iOS, which is a stripped-down version of OSX, a
flavor of BSD.


You like many, incorrectly and simply refer to the desktop/laptop use of
an O/S, yes where MS currently dominates, but not for long.

Good Day

Andrew Brown


On 31/07/2013 10:20 AM, Andrew Brown wrote:


Again, you troll with no supply of facts. My response was out by 2%
WOW!!! but this article includes tablets and Windows RT

http://www.winbeta.org/news/**windows-8-and-windows-rt-**
account-45-global-tablet-**market-share-q2-2013

Andrew Brown

On 31/07/2013 04:45 AM, Urmas wrote:


Just know that they are taking a knock, what with Windows 8 only
migrating into less than 2% of the world market of their existing XP and
Windows 7 base

Windows 8 already has a market share of Windows XP and Vista combined on
newer hardware (It's about 9 times of Linux marketshare, btw.).





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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: 4.0.3

[jomali]

On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 4:37 AM, Andrew Brown  wrote:

> And some more info and statics with charts, to refudiate your claims of
> Windows XP and Vista (the latter also a disaster for MS) of combined market
> share.
>
> http://www.statista.com/**topics/823/microsoft/chart/**
> 799/market-share-of-selected-**windows-operating-systems/
>
> And it shows what you know of Linux. FACT, it along with various flavours
> of Unix, power the known global Internet servers, Observatories,
> MET/weather offices, Space exploration, the Mars machines, the majority of
> military machines/equipment, medical equipment, and lo and behold a good
> number of desktop, laptops around the world, and the no.1 O/S for mobile -
> Android, followed shortly by Firefox O/S and Ubuntu Touch.
>
You might also include iOS, which is a stripped-down version of OSX, a
flavor of BSD.

>
> You like many, incorrectly and simply refer to the desktop/laptop use of
> an O/S, yes where MS currently dominates, but not for long.
>
> Good Day
>
> Andrew Brown
>
>
> On 31/07/2013 10:20 AM, Andrew Brown wrote:
>
>> Again, you troll with no supply of facts. My response was out by 2%
>> WOW!!! but this article includes tablets and Windows RT
>>
>> http://www.winbeta.org/news/**windows-8-and-windows-rt-**
>> account-45-global-tablet-**market-share-q2-2013
>>
>> Andrew Brown
>>
>> On 31/07/2013 04:45 AM, Urmas wrote:
>>
>>> Just know that they are taking a knock, what with Windows 8 only
>>> migrating into less than 2% of the world market of their existing XP and
>>> Windows 7 base
>>>
>>> Windows 8 already has a market share of Windows XP and Vista combined on
>>> newer hardware (It's about 9 times of Linux marketshare, btw.).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: 4.0.3

[James Knott]

Andrew Brown wrote:
> yes where MS currently dominates, but not for long.

Of course one also has to look at why MS dominates.  The reasons include
strong arming and extortion.  MS has long been an unethical company,
going back to when Bill Gates and Paul Allen developed a BASIC
interpreter for the Altair 8800 computer.  MITS, the company that
produced the Altair hired Bill Gates and Paul Allen to create the
interpreter.  They developed it on the Harvard computers, in violation
of policy that those computer not be used for commercial purposes. 
Then, after BG saw the commercial potential for BASIC, claimed he owned
the software MITS had paid for.  Then in the DOS/early Windows days, MS
required computer manufacturers to pay for a licence on every computer
sold, regardless whether it shipped with DOS/Windows.  There was also a
test in Windows to see if it was running on DR-DOS and would then throw
up a bogus error message.  Then there was the issue of Windows API,
where MS apps ran better than competitor's, because MS used hidden API
that were not available to competitors.  Or how they told WordPerfect
about the new Windows API, but changed them just before Windows 95
(IIRC) was released.  Or how MS refused to licence Windows 95 to IBM,
unless IBM stopped promoting OS/2 (there's also the incident where MS
misappropriated IBM's money for OS/2 development to Windows).  Or how
they claimed in court the Internet Explorer couldn't be removed because
it was part of the operating system.  It wasn't at the time, but soon
became so, opening up all sorts of security problems is in the process. 
More recently, with site licences, MS requires all computers to be
licensed, even if they can't run the software.  The list of MS unethical
behaviour is a long one.

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: 4.0.3

[James Knott]

Tom Davies wrote:
> Netbooks died off for 1 reason only.  That was because people wanted Windows 
> on them

Actually, there was a bit of MS strong arming manufacturers as well.  I
have an Asus Eee PC, which I loaned to a friend.  She loves it, even
though her computer experience had previously been only on Windows. 
Look at the efforts MS is taking to keep other operating systems off
newer systems with UEFI requiring signatures provided only by MS.

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: 4.0.3

[James Knott]

Urmas wrote:
> Another major reason are huge bribes given to government officials to
> deploy {Libre|Open}Office solutions in budget-funding institutions
> worldwide.

Actually, if you care to check the facts, it's Microsoft that's been
doing that.


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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: 4.0.3

[James Knott]

Urmas wrote:
> So the open document standards were
> born and ratified and accpeted by the majority of the world that counts.
>
> Microsoft is using an open standard format called OpenXML. Stop
> pushing your vendor-locked ODF crap here please.
You may want to read up a bit on OpenXML and how it was rammed through
ISO and also how Microsoft themselves don't follow it.  The way it
became a "standard" was an absolute farce that crippled an ISO committee
that's also supposed to handle other stuff.  Are you aware OpenXML
perpetuates that  year 1900 Excel bug and makes it standard?  Did you
know about all the non-disclosed binary blobs that are part of OpenXML? 
Now tell me again who's pushing "vendor-locked crap".


http://www.groklaw.net/staticpages/index.php?page=20051216153153504
http://www.groklaw.net/staticpages/index.php?page=20080719233709726

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: 4.0.3

[Andrew Brown]

Hi Tom

Yep, and these mobile devices are in the majority of using Android 
today, a Linux distro, having outpaced even the successful Apple 
pad/tablet with iOS on them. And as I covered, Firefox O/S for mobiles 
is here and next year Ubuntu Touch which is being designed to run 
alongside Android if one so wishes.


If you look at the web advertising of the Ubuntu device known as the 
Ubuntu Edge, it is, if it lives up to it's sales pitch, going to be the 
most powerful mobile device on the market, running both Ubuntu desktop 
O/S, Ubuntu Touch and Android. Cannonical are hoping that it will be so 
powerful as to replace many desktops, by simply plugging in a screen, 
keyboard and mouse, see the video in the supplied URL. Plus if you have 
the money, you can buy one now, as I have already done with the $775 
choice, right side of page. I would have liked to have gone for the 
$10,000 option but whew!! that's a bit steep for my pocket.


http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ubuntu-edge--35

Regards

Andrew Brown

On 31/07/2013 11:46 AM, Tom Davies wrote:

Hi :)
I think Windows will continue to dominate the desktops and full 
laptops, maybe even down to notebooks.


Netbooks died off for 1 reason only.  That was because people wanted 
Windows on them and then found that the machines ran ridiculously 
slowly.  Any version of Gnu&Linux, even Ubuntu, made the machines 
really fast and seemingly powerful.  People weren't ready for 
non-Windows back then.  However they were a good ice-breaker.  Now 
people are happy with even smaller and less powerful devices.


So, while Windows dominates the desktops we keep hearing that the "age 
of the desktop is over" and it's already being reported that comparing 
the amount of time people spend on desktops compared to using 
hand-helds has already tipped in favour of the hand-helds and other 
mobile devices.


Regards from
Tom :)




*From:* Andrew Brown 
*To:* Urmas 
*Cc:* users@global.libreoffice.org
*Sent:* Wednesday, 31 July 2013, 9:37
    *Subject:* Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: 4.0.3

And some more info and statics with charts, to refudiate your
claims of
Windows XP and Vista (the latter also a disaster for MS) of combined
market share.


http://www.statista.com/topics/823/microsoft/chart/799/market-share-of-selected-windows-operating-systems/

And it shows what you know of Linux. FACT, it along with various
flavours of Unix, power the known global Internet servers,
Observatories, MET/weather offices, Space exploration, the Mars
machines, the majority of military machines/equipment, medical
equipment, and lo and behold a good number of desktop, laptops around
the world, and the no.1 O/S for mobile - Android, followed shortly by
Firefox O/S and Ubuntu Touch.

You like many, incorrectly and simply refer to the desktop/laptop
use of
an O/S, yes where MS currently dominates, but not for long.

Good Day

Andrew Brown

On 31/07/2013 10:20 AM, Andrew Brown wrote:
> Again, you troll with no supply of facts. My response was out by 2%
> WOW!!! but this article includes tablets and Windows RT
>
>

http://www.winbeta.org/news/windows-8-and-windows-rt-account-45-global-tablet-market-share-q2-2013

>
>
> Andrew Brown
>
> On 31/07/2013 04:45 AM, Urmas wrote:
>> Just know that they are taking a knock, what with Windows 8 only
>> migrating into less than 2% of the world market of their
existing XP and
>> Windows 7 base
>>
>> Windows 8 already has a market share of Windows XP and Vista
combined
>> on newer hardware (It's about 9 times of Linux marketshare, btw.).
>>
>>
>>
>


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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: 4.0.3

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
I think Windows will continue to dominate the desktops and full laptops, maybe 
even down to notebooks.  

Netbooks died off for 1 reason only.  That was because people wanted Windows on 
them and then found that the machines ran ridiculously slowly.  Any version of 
Gnu&Linux, even Ubuntu, made the machines really fast and seemingly powerful.  
People weren't ready for non-Windows back then.  However they were a good 
ice-breaker.  Now people are happy with even smaller and less powerful devices. 
 

So, while Windows dominates the desktops we keep hearing that the "age of the 
desktop is over" and it's already being reported that comparing the amount of 
time people spend on desktops compared to using hand-helds has already tipped 
in favour of the hand-helds and other mobile devices.  

Regards from 
Tom :)  






>
> From: Andrew Brown 
>To: Urmas  
>Cc: users@global.libreoffice.org 
>Sent: Wednesday, 31 July 2013, 9:37
>Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: 4.0.3
> 
>
>And some more info and statics with charts, to refudiate your claims of 
>Windows XP and Vista (the latter also a disaster for MS) of combined 
>market share.
>
>http://www.statista.com/topics/823/microsoft/chart/799/market-share-of-selected-windows-operating-systems/
>
>And it shows what you know of Linux. FACT, it along with various 
>flavours of Unix, power the known global Internet servers, 
>Observatories, MET/weather offices, Space exploration, the Mars 
>machines, the majority of military machines/equipment, medical 
>equipment, and lo and behold a good number of desktop, laptops around 
>the world, and the no.1 O/S for mobile - Android, followed shortly by 
>Firefox O/S and Ubuntu Touch.
>
>You like many, incorrectly and simply refer to the desktop/laptop use of 
>an O/S, yes where MS currently dominates, but not for long.
>
>Good Day
>
>Andrew Brown
>
>On 31/07/2013 10:20 AM, Andrew Brown wrote:
>> Again, you troll with no supply of facts. My response was out by 2% 
>> WOW!!! but this article includes tablets and Windows RT
>>
>> http://www.winbeta.org/news/windows-8-and-windows-rt-account-45-global-tablet-market-share-q2-2013
>>  
>>
>>
>> Andrew Brown
>>
>> On 31/07/2013 04:45 AM, Urmas wrote:
>>> Just know that they are taking a knock, what with Windows 8 only
>>> migrating into less than 2% of the world market of their existing XP and
>>> Windows 7 base
>>>
>>> Windows 8 already has a market share of Windows XP and Vista combined 
>>> on newer hardware (It's about 9 times of Linux marketshare, btw.).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: 4.0.3

[Andrew Brown]

And some more info and statics with charts, to refudiate your claims of 
Windows XP and Vista (the latter also a disaster for MS) of combined 
market share.


http://www.statista.com/topics/823/microsoft/chart/799/market-share-of-selected-windows-operating-systems/

And it shows what you know of Linux. FACT, it along with various 
flavours of Unix, power the known global Internet servers, 
Observatories, MET/weather offices, Space exploration, the Mars 
machines, the majority of military machines/equipment, medical 
equipment, and lo and behold a good number of desktop, laptops around 
the world, and the no.1 O/S for mobile - Android, followed shortly by 
Firefox O/S and Ubuntu Touch.


You like many, incorrectly and simply refer to the desktop/laptop use of 
an O/S, yes where MS currently dominates, but not for long.


Good Day

Andrew Brown

On 31/07/2013 10:20 AM, Andrew Brown wrote:
Again, you troll with no supply of facts. My response was out by 2% 
WOW!!! but this article includes tablets and Windows RT


http://www.winbeta.org/news/windows-8-and-windows-rt-account-45-global-tablet-market-share-q2-2013 



Andrew Brown

On 31/07/2013 04:45 AM, Urmas wrote:

Just know that they are taking a knock, what with Windows 8 only
migrating into less than 2% of the world market of their existing XP and
Windows 7 base

Windows 8 already has a market share of Windows XP and Vista combined 
on newer hardware (It's about 9 times of Linux marketshare, btw.).









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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: 4.0.3

[Andrew Brown]

Again, you troll with no supply of facts. My response was out by 2% 
WOW!!! but this article includes tablets and Windows RT


http://www.winbeta.org/news/windows-8-and-windows-rt-account-45-global-tablet-market-share-q2-2013

Andrew Brown

On 31/07/2013 04:45 AM, Urmas wrote:

Just know that they are taking a knock, what with Windows 8 only
migrating into less than 2% of the world market of their existing XP and
Windows 7 base

Windows 8 already has a market share of Windows XP and Vista combined 
on newer hardware (It's about 9 times of Linux marketshare, btw.).







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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: 4.0.3

[Andrew Brown]

Urmas

Of which it has never been fully ratified and accepted as an open 
document standard, the argument still proceeds today over the MS open 
standards.


-


   Standardization process

Main article: Standardization of Office Open XML 



Microsoft submitted initial material to Ecma International 
 Technical Committee 
TC45, where it was standardized to become ECMA-376, approved in December 
2006.^[13] 


This standard was then fast-tracked in the Joint Technical Committee 1 
 of ISO and IEC. After initially 
failing to pass 
, 
an amended version of the format received the necessary votes for 
approval as an ISO/IEC Standard as the result of a JTC 1 
 fast tracking 
standardization process that concluded in April 2008.^[14] 
 
The resulting four part International Standard (designated ISO/IEC 
29500:2008) was published in November 2008^[15] 
 and can be 
downloaded from the ITTF 
.^[16] 
 A 
technically equivalent set of texts is published by Ecma as /ECMA-376 
Office Open XML File Formats --- 2nd edition/ (December 2008); they can 
be downloaded from their web site.^[17] 



The ISO standardization of Office Open XML was controversial and 
embittered,^[18] 
 
with much discussion both about the specification and about the 
standardization process.^[19] 
 According to 
/InfoWorld /:


   OOXML was opposed by many on grounds it was unneeded, as software
   makers could use OpenDocument Format
    (ODF), a less
   complicated office software format that was already an international
   standard.^[18]
   


   --- InfoWorld

The same /InfoWorld / article 
reported that IBM  (which supports the 
ODF  format) threatened to leave 
standards bodies that it said allow dominant corporations like Microsoft 
to wield undue influence. The article further says that Microsoft was 
accused of co-opting the standardization process by leaning on countries 
to ensure that it got enough votes at the ISO for Office Open XML to 
pass; although it does not specify exactly who accused Microsoft.^[18] 
 



Richard Stallman  of the 
Free Software Foundation 
 has stated that 
"Microsoft offers a gratis patent license for OOXML on terms which do 
not allow free  
implementations."^[20] 



---

Please validate your knowledge pool before labelling others as quote 
"pushing your vendor-locked ODF crap here please." unquote.


Have a good day

Andrew Brown

On 31/07/2013 04:29 AM, Urmas wrote:

"Andrew Brown":

So the open document standards were
born and ratified and accpeted by the majority of the world that counts.

Microsoft is using an open standard format called OpenXML. Stop 
pushing your vendor-locked ODF crap here please.






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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: 4.0.3

[Steve Edmonds]

Not Quite to my understanding.
Office 2013 has the option to use the strict standard, but it's not the 
default as any older office versions couldn't open the documents.
The format in use prior to and by default in office 2013 is a 
transitional format.


Steve
On 2013-07-31 14:29, Urmas wrote:

"Andrew Brown":

So the open document standards were
born and ratified and accpeted by the majority of the world that counts.

Microsoft is using an open standard format called OpenXML. Stop 
pushing your vendor-locked ODF crap here please.






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[libreoffice-users] Re: 4.0.3

[Urmas]

Just know that they are taking a knock, what with Windows 8 only
migrating into less than 2% of the world market of their existing XP and
Windows 7 base

Windows 8 already has a market share of Windows XP and Vista combined on 
newer hardware (It's about 9 times of Linux marketshare, btw.).




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[libreoffice-users] Re: 4.0.3

[Urmas]

"Virgil Arrington":

I hope the LO developers are motivated by a desire to produce a great 
product that can be

used worldwide.

No, they are motivated by an attempt to commodize office software market for 
promoting 3rd party software and hardware. Another major reason are huge 
bribes given to government officials to deploy {Libre|Open}Office solutions 
in budget-funding institutions worldwide.


User interests are not involved into development of this software in any 
way, shape or form. 




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[libreoffice-users] Re: 4.0.3

[Urmas]

"Andrew Brown":

So the open document standards were
born and ratified and accpeted by the majority of the world that counts.

Microsoft is using an open standard format called OpenXML. Stop pushing your 
vendor-locked ODF crap here please. 




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