Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LibO 3.6.0.2 - Calc: date notation

2012-07-26 Thread Tom Davies 
Hi :)
WoooHooo, at last.  I thought i was mad thinking like that but at last someone 
else has actually said it.   

Also was wondering about "millenium" meaning thousand but i can't think of the 
appropriate word that 'should' have been used instead.   
Regards from
Tom :)  



--- On Thu, 26/7/12, Brian Barker  wrote:

From: Brian Barker 
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LibO 3.6.0.2 - Calc: date notation
To: users@global.libreoffice.org
Date: Thursday, 26 July, 2012, 12:43

At 12:34 26/07/2012 +0200, Joep L. Blom wrote:
> In my view in a date the least significant (fastest changing) part is the day 
> so it's logical to put it in front. In the over 2000 years date notation 
> systems are used ...

If you think it's logical to have the least significant part first, shouldn't 
that be not "2000 years" but "0002 years"?

;^)

Brian Barker


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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LibO 3.6.0.2 - Calc: date notation

2012-07-26 Thread Don C. Myers 
I'm in the US, but I save many files which I want to have in 
chronological order. I always use FileNameYearMonthDate, or 
Backup20120709.xxx . It is important that if the month or the date is a 
single digit, it be preceded with a 0 as shown above.


Don


On 07/26/2012 08:08 AM, Andrew Brager wrote:

Hmmm... Year/Month/Day

Drop the year for a moment and you have Month/Day: 7/26

Sounds almost... American style. ;-)


On 7/26/2012 4:05 AM, Ian Whitfield wrote:



(For clarity and ease of reading I always use the 3-Letter month 
abbreviation.

So today is 2012 Jul 26!!

Ian W
Pretoria, South Africa.








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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LibO 3.6.0.2 - Calc: date notation

2012-07-26 Thread Andrew Brager 

Hmmm... Year/Month/Day

Drop the year for a moment and you have Month/Day: 7/26

Sounds almost... American style. ;-)


On 7/26/2012 4:05 AM, Ian Whitfield wrote:



(For clarity and ease of reading I always use the 3-Letter month 
abbreviation.

So today is 2012 Jul 26!!

Ian W
Pretoria, South Africa.






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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LibO 3.6.0.2 - Calc: date notation

2012-07-26 Thread Brian Barker 

At 12:34 26/07/2012 +0200, Joep L. Blom wrote:
In my view in a date the least significant (fastest changing) part 
is the day so it's logical to put it in front. In the over 2000 
years date notation systems are used ...


If you think it's logical to have the least significant part first, 
shouldn't that be not "2000 years" but "0002 years"?


;^)

Brian Barker


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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LibO 3.6.0.2 - Calc: date notation

2012-07-26 Thread T. R. Valentine 
On 26 July 2012 05:34, Joep L. Blom  wrote:

> As I said before it's illogic. In my view in a date the least significant
> (fastest changing) part is the day so it's logical to put it in front.

But that isn't how numbering works! Ten is represented as 10, not 01;
one hundred is 100, not 001.

Moreover, placing ISO-formatted dates in alphanumeric order will
produce chronological order.

It is *very* logical.

-- 
T. R. Valentine
Your friends will argue with you. Your enemies don't care.
'When I get a little money I buy books; and if any is left I buy food
and clothes.' -- Erasmus

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LibO 3.6.0.2 - Calc: date notation

2012-07-26 Thread Ian Whitfield 

On 07/26/2012 12:34 PM, Joep L. Blom wrote:

Jonny,
As I said before it's illogic. In my view in a date the least 
significant (fastest changing) part is the day so it's logical to put 
it in front.
In the over 2000 years date notation systems are used all logical and 
illogical combinations have been used.
The reason I find that the current European (Dutch, Swedish) notation 
is more logical than the ISO 8601 is that in many cases the year 
notation is omitted which is in the European notation self-explaining 
but in the ISO 8601 less intuitive.
However, it's my personal feeling and don't forget: international 
rules aren't always right! :)
Joep 


As far as I understand the "International" Standard for _ALL_ forms of 
measurement is -

Left to right, Highest to lowest.
So this makes a Date/Time (which is a form of measurement)  Year - Month 
- Day - Hour - Min - Sec.
All other "measurements" do it this way... $ - c; lb - oz; gal - pint; 
etc and all Metric Systems as well

G - M - K - (Basic unit) - m - etc etc.

(For clarity and ease of reading I always use the 3-Letter month 
abbreviation.

So today is 2012 Jul 26!!

Ian W
Pretoria, South Africa.


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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LibO 3.6.0.2 - Calc: date notation

2012-07-26 Thread Dries Feys 
AFAIK, ISO 8601 is the Swedish notation.

And in order of textual sorting, it is the far most logic notification. But
I agree that mdy is far less logic than dmy or ymd.

Met vriendelijke groeten, Cordialement, Regards,

*DRIES FEYS*
*CORPORATE SERVICES* • *Senior Software Engineer*

 



On 26 July 2012 12:34, Joep L. Blom  wrote:

> On 25-07-12 20:49, Johnny Rosenberg wrote:
>
>> 2012/7/25 anne-ology :
>>
>
>
>
>>>I resent the US way of ISO 8601. We Dutch and other Europeans use
>>> the
>>>
>>>  more logical sequence of day-month-year instead of the illogical
>> year-month-day.(most important first, least important last: very often
>> the
>> year can be missed).
>> Joep
>>
>>
>
>> Exactly what is strange with ISO 8601?
>>
>>
>
> Jonny,
> As I said before it's illogic. In my view in a date the least significant
> (fastest changing) part is the day so it's logical to put it in front.
> In the over 2000 years date notation systems are used all logical and
> illogical combinations have been used.
> The reason I find that the current European (Dutch, Swedish) notation is
> more logical than the ISO 8601 is that in many cases the year notation is
> omitted which is in the European notation self-explaining but in the ISO
> 8601 less intuitive.
> However, it's my personal feeling and don't forget: international rules
> aren't always right! :)
>
> Joep
>
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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LibO 3.6.0.2 - Calc: date notation

2012-07-26 Thread Joep L. Blom 

On 25-07-12 20:49, Johnny Rosenberg wrote:

2012/7/25 anne-ology :





   I resent the US way of ISO 8601. We Dutch and other Europeans use the


more logical sequence of day-month-year instead of the illogical
year-month-day.(most important first, least important last: very often
the
year can be missed).
Joep





Exactly what is strange with ISO 8601?




Jonny,
As I said before it's illogic. In my view in a date the least 
significant (fastest changing) part is the day so it's logical to put it 
in front.
In the over 2000 years date notation systems are used all logical and 
illogical combinations have been used.
The reason I find that the current European (Dutch, Swedish) notation is 
more logical than the ISO 8601 is that in many cases the year notation 
is omitted which is in the European notation self-explaining but in the 
ISO 8601 less intuitive.
However, it's my personal feeling and don't forget: international rules 
aren't always right! :)

Joep

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LibO 3.6.0.2 - Calc: date notation

2012-07-25 Thread Johnny Rosenberg 
2012/7/25 anne-ology :
>yes, I agreed with you -
>except don't blame the U.S. for that silly ISO  ;-)
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 7:00 AM, Joep L. Blom  wrote:
>
> On 25-07-12 10:40, anne-ology wrote:
>>
>>> The ISO is not U.S.;
>>>the U.S. uses the confusing month-day-year rather than the
>>> European day-month-year;
>>>   as an historian-genealogist, I've been pushing the European
>>> method.
>>>
>>> This ISO is as strange as changing the time twice/year or using AM
>>> or PM following 12: ...
>>> see 
>>> http://www.cs.tut.fi/~**jkorpela/iso8601.htmlfor
>>>  an
>>> explanation of this idea;
>>>  [it's 'clear as mud'  ;-) ]
>>>
>>>  Thanks for your support!
>> Joep
>>
>>
>>
>>  On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 4:18 PM, Joep L. Blom 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> On 23-07-12 21:02, Andreas Säger wrote:
>>>

  Am 23.07.2012 14:44, Guy Voets wrote:
>
>  Hi folks,
>>
>> A LibO spreadsheet, made in LibO, Dutch version (no Excel or OOo past).
>>
>>  - In LibO 3.5.5, I used to give in dates as 20-7 and they were
>> shown
>> as 20 Jul 12.
>>  - In LibO 3.6.0.2, if I enter 20-7, 20-7 is shown in the cell.
>>
>> If I enter 20-7-12, the date is inverted into 12 Jul 2020.
>> So instead of entering 20-7, I now need to enter 12-7-20 to get the
>> desired notation 20 Jul 12.
>>
>> Is this a new feature, or a bug?
>>
>>
>>  This is just another anti-feature that has been added to Calc against
> all reason simply because too many inexperienced users who never really
> used any spreadsheets insisted loudly enough.
> I will upgrade my LibreOffice 3.5 to ApacheOpenOffice 3.4.1.
>
>
>   I resent the US way of ISO 8601. We Dutch and other Europeans use the
>
 more logical sequence of day-month-year instead of the illogical
 year-month-day.(most important first, least important last: very often
 the
 year can be missed).
 Joep


>
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>

Exactly what is strange with ISO 8601?

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LibO 3.6.0.2 - Calc: date notation

2012-07-25 Thread anne-ology 
   yes, I agreed with you -
   except don't blame the U.S. for that silly ISO  ;-)



On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 7:00 AM, Joep L. Blom  wrote:

On 25-07-12 10:40, anne-ology wrote:
>
>> The ISO is not U.S.;
>>the U.S. uses the confusing month-day-year rather than the
>> European day-month-year;
>>   as an historian-genealogist, I've been pushing the European
>> method.
>>
>> This ISO is as strange as changing the time twice/year or using AM
>> or PM following 12: ...
>> see 
>> http://www.cs.tut.fi/~**jkorpela/iso8601.htmlfor
>>  an
>> explanation of this idea;
>>  [it's 'clear as mud'  ;-) ]
>>
>>  Thanks for your support!
> Joep
>
>
>
>  On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 4:18 PM, Joep L. Blom 
>> wrote:
>>
>> On 23-07-12 21:02, Andreas Säger wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>  Am 23.07.2012 14:44, Guy Voets wrote:

  Hi folks,
>
> A LibO spreadsheet, made in LibO, Dutch version (no Excel or OOo past).
>
>  - In LibO 3.5.5, I used to give in dates as 20-7 and they were
> shown
> as 20 Jul 12.
>  - In LibO 3.6.0.2, if I enter 20-7, 20-7 is shown in the cell.
>
> If I enter 20-7-12, the date is inverted into 12 Jul 2020.
> So instead of entering 20-7, I now need to enter 12-7-20 to get the
> desired notation 20 Jul 12.
>
> Is this a new feature, or a bug?
>
>
>  This is just another anti-feature that has been added to Calc against
 all reason simply because too many inexperienced users who never really
 used any spreadsheets insisted loudly enough.
 I will upgrade my LibreOffice 3.5 to ApacheOpenOffice 3.4.1.


   I resent the US way of ISO 8601. We Dutch and other Europeans use the

>>> more logical sequence of day-month-year instead of the illogical
>>> year-month-day.(most important first, least important last: very often
>>> the
>>> year can be missed).
>>> Joep
>>>
>>>

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LibO 3.6.0.2 - Calc: date notation

2012-07-25 Thread Joep L. Blom 

On 25-07-12 10:40, anne-ology wrote:

The ISO is not U.S.;
   the U.S. uses the confusing month-day-year rather than the
European day-month-year;
  as an historian-genealogist, I've been pushing the European
method.

This ISO is as strange as changing the time twice/year or using AM
or PM following 12: ...
see http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/iso8601.html for an
explanation of this idea;
 [it's 'clear as mud'  ;-) ]


Thanks for your support!
Joep



On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 4:18 PM, Joep L. Blom  wrote:

On 23-07-12 21:02, Andreas Säger wrote:



Am 23.07.2012 14:44, Guy Voets wrote:


Hi folks,

A LibO spreadsheet, made in LibO, Dutch version (no Excel or OOo past).

 - In LibO 3.5.5, I used to give in dates as 20-7 and they were shown
as 20 Jul 12.
 - In LibO 3.6.0.2, if I enter 20-7, 20-7 is shown in the cell.

If I enter 20-7-12, the date is inverted into 12 Jul 2020.
So instead of entering 20-7, I now need to enter 12-7-20 to get the
desired notation 20 Jul 12.

Is this a new feature, or a bug?



This is just another anti-feature that has been added to Calc against
all reason simply because too many inexperienced users who never really
used any spreadsheets insisted loudly enough.
I will upgrade my LibreOffice 3.5 to ApacheOpenOffice 3.4.1.


  I resent the US way of ISO 8601. We Dutch and other Europeans use the

more logical sequence of day-month-year instead of the illogical
year-month-day.(most important first, least important last: very often the
year can be missed).
Joep








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[libreoffice-users] Re: LibO 3.6.0.2 - Calc: date notation

2012-07-25 Thread Andreas Säger 
These cultural differences can not be resolved by software. This office suite
used to handle these things gracefully.

After all those years since Excel '95 I got used to the input method "23/"
which enters this month's 23th day from any num-pad on any keyboard, in any
office component, under US locale or any other locale.
23/2 entered this year's 23th of February under a non-US locale. US takes
2/23 as February the 23th.
This minimum effort date entry has been given up for some idiots who still
can not tell a string from a number.
Under a German locale I have to leave the num-pad for the point in order to
enter "23.7." instead of "23/".

Date input into Writer tables seems to be completely out of control. I apply
some date format to the entire column, enter a full ISO date and end up with
a text cell.

Bye, bye LibreOffice.



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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LibO 3.6.0.2 - Calc: date notation

2012-07-25 Thread anne-ology 
   The ISO is not U.S.;
  the U.S. uses the confusing month-day-year rather than the
European day-month-year;
 as an historian-genealogist, I've been pushing the European
method.

   This ISO is as strange as changing the time twice/year or using AM
or PM following 12: ...
   see http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/iso8601.html for an
explanation of this idea;
[it's 'clear as mud'  ;-) ]



On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 4:18 PM, Joep L. Blom  wrote:

On 23-07-12 21:02, Andreas Säger wrote:
>
>> Am 23.07.2012 14:44, Guy Voets wrote:
>>
>>> Hi folks,
>>>
>>> A LibO spreadsheet, made in LibO, Dutch version (no Excel or OOo past).
>>>
>>> - In LibO 3.5.5, I used to give in dates as 20-7 and they were shown
>>> as 20 Jul 12.
>>> - In LibO 3.6.0.2, if I enter 20-7, 20-7 is shown in the cell.
>>>
>>> If I enter 20-7-12, the date is inverted into 12 Jul 2020.
>>> So instead of entering 20-7, I now need to enter 12-7-20 to get the
>>> desired notation 20 Jul 12.
>>>
>>> Is this a new feature, or a bug?
>>>
>>>
>> This is just another anti-feature that has been added to Calc against
>> all reason simply because too many inexperienced users who never really
>> used any spreadsheets insisted loudly enough.
>> I will upgrade my LibreOffice 3.5 to ApacheOpenOffice 3.4.1.
>>
>>
>>  I resent the US way of ISO 8601. We Dutch and other Europeans use the
> more logical sequence of day-month-year instead of the illogical
> year-month-day.(most important first, least important last: very often the
> year can be missed).
> Joep
>
>

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LibO 3.6.0.2 - Calc: date notation

2012-07-24 Thread Joep L. Blom 

On 24-07-12 00:41, Jay Lozier wrote:

On 07/23/2012 05:18 PM, Joep L. Blom wrote:

On 23-07-12 21:02, Andreas Säger wrote:

Am 23.07.2012 14:44, Guy Voets wrote:

Hi folks,



I resent the US way of ISO 8601. We Dutch and other Europeans use the
more logical sequence of day-month-year instead of the illogical
year-month-day.(most important first, least important last: very often
the year can be missed).

The standard US date convention is even less logical than ymd or dmy it
is mdy. Ymd and dmy both have a progression that makes sense. I live in
the US.


planas,
I don't envy you!
Joep



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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LibO 3.6.0.2 - Calc: date notation

2012-07-24 Thread Tom Davies 
Hi :)
The fact of something appearing in a format dialogue box is not really proof of 
that format being used!  I've never seen nor heard of the USA way being used in 
the UK.  Perhaps it's used in the US airbases.  Wouldn't it be a tad confusing 
if both ways were really being used here?  I think you have found a bug in the 
format dialogue but i would be amazed if those dialogues are really specific to 
a locale setting.  
Regards from
Tom :)  


--- On Tue, 24/7/12, Dan  wrote:

From: Dan 
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LibO 3.6.0.2 - Calc: date notation
To: users@global.libreoffice.org
Date: Tuesday, 24 July, 2012, 0:02

     Let me see: open Calc in LO 3.6.0.2 and format a column selecting the 
Category as Date and the Language as English(UK). It does not seem to matter 
what is selected as the Format. (I selected 31/12/99.) Enter 20-7 in a cell. It 
becomes 20/7/12. When 20/7 is entered in a cell of the column, 20/7/12 is the 
result.
     It is a matter of formatting the column, cell, or row for the type of data 
to be placed in the sheet. With the correct format [English(USA)], I can enter 
20-7 in a cell, and it will become Saturday, July 20,2012 or Saturday, 20 July 
2012 depending upon what format I use. (The last one would require selecting 
User-defined Category and the appropriate entries in the Format code box.)
     Ah yes, the "weird" USA way. While I had the Format dialog open with UK as 
the Language, I noticed something in the list of Format examples: MM-DD! If it 
should be DD/MM/YY, then why should it also be MM/DD? OK so the USA way is 
weird, but then so is the British. Check it out.  Chuckle, Chuckle! (From where 
this is located in the Format example list, I think I know why it is this way. 
(ISO 8601) But I could not resist replying to Tom's comment.

--Dan

Tom Davies wrote:
> Hi :)
> I thought the USA way was the amazingly weird
> mm/dd/yy
> 
> Apparently it's important to use / instead of - in order to make sure it's 
> easier to mis-read.  With some people's handwriting an 11 might look like 1/ 
> or vice-versa.
> Regards from
> Tom :)
> 
> 
> --- On Mon, 23/7/12, Joep L. Blom  wrote:
> 
> From: Joep L. Blom 
> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LibO 3.6.0.2 - Calc: date notation
> To: users@global.libreoffice.org
> Cc: "Andreas Säger" 
> Date: Monday, 23 July, 2012, 22:18
> 
> On 23-07-12 21:02, Andreas Säger wrote:
>> Am 23.07.2012 14:44, Guy Voets wrote:
>>> Hi folks,
>>> 
>>> A LibO spreadsheet, made in LibO, Dutch version (no Excel or OOo past).
>>> 
>>>       - In LibO 3.5.5, I used to give in dates as 20-7 and they were
>>> shown as
>>>       20 Jul 12.
>>>       - In LibO 3.6.0.2, if I enter 20-7, 20-7 is shown in the cell.
>>> 
>>> If I enter 20-7-12, the date is inverted into 12 Jul 2020.
>>> So instead of entering 20-7, I now need to enter 12-7-20 to get the
>>> desired
>>> notation 20 Jul 12.
>>> 
>>> Is this a new feature, or a bug?
>>> 
>> 
>> This is just another anti-feature that has been added to Calc against
>> all reason simply because too many inexperienced users who never really
>> used any spreadsheets insisted loudly enough.
>> I will upgrade my LibreOffice 3.5 to ApacheOpenOffice 3.4.1.
>> 
>> 
> I resent the US way of ISO 8601. We Dutch and other Europeans use the
> more logical sequence of day-month-year instead of the illogical
> year-month-day.(most important first, least important last: very often
> the year can be missed).
> Joep
> 
> 
> 



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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LibO 3.6.0.2 - Calc: date notation

2012-07-23 Thread nvrk 
On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 4:31 PM, Dan  wrote:

> Dan wrote:
>
>>   Let me see: open Calc in LO 3.6.0.2 and format a column selecting
>> the Category as Date and the Language as English(UK). It does not seem
>> to matter what is selected as the Format. (I selected 31/12/99.) Enter
>> 20-7 in a cell. It becomes 20/7/12. When 20/7 is entered in a cell of
>> the column, 20/7/12 is the result.
>>   It is a matter of formatting the column, cell, or row for the type
>> of data to be placed in the sheet. With the correct format
>> [English(USA)], I can enter 20-7 in a cell, and it will become Saturday,
>> July 20,2012 or Saturday, 20 July 2012 depending upon what format I use.
>> (The last one would require selecting User-defined Category and the
>> appropriate entries in the Format code box.)
>>   Ah yes, the "weird" USA way. While I had the Format dialog open
>> with UK as the Language, I noticed something in the list of Format
>> examples: MM-DD! If it should be DD/MM/YY, then why should it also be
>> MM/DD? OK so the USA way is weird, but then so is the British. Check it
>> out.  Chuckle, Chuckle! (From where this is located in the Format
>> example list, I think I know why it is this way. (ISO 8601) But I could
>> not resist replying to Tom's comment.
>>
>> --Dan
>>
>
>  Sorry folks, but this is too good to be kept a "secret." Source:
> Wikipedia, article: Calendar Date. Here is a quote from it:
>
>  "This sequence is used primarily in the United States, partially in
> Canada, and a few other countries[citation needed]. This date format was
> commonly used alongside the small endian form in the United Kingdom until
> the early 20th Century, and can be found in both defunct and modern print
> media such as the London Gazette and The Times, respectively. In the UK, it
> would be verbally expressed as Sunday, November the 9th, whereas in the
> United States, it is usually Sunday, November 9th, although usage of "the"
> isn't uncommon."
>
>  So now we know where the USA got its weird format for dates: from the
> UK! Particularly from London England.
>  Oh happy day! Big Smile!
>
>
> --Dan
>

FWIW - I prefer ddmmm or mmmdd; 09Jul2012 or 2012Jul09;
unambiguous; with minimum characters!  --nvsoar

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LibO 3.6.0.2 - Calc: date notation

2012-07-23 Thread Dan 

Dan wrote:

  Let me see: open Calc in LO 3.6.0.2 and format a column selecting
the Category as Date and the Language as English(UK). It does not seem
to matter what is selected as the Format. (I selected 31/12/99.) Enter
20-7 in a cell. It becomes 20/7/12. When 20/7 is entered in a cell of
the column, 20/7/12 is the result.
  It is a matter of formatting the column, cell, or row for the type
of data to be placed in the sheet. With the correct format
[English(USA)], I can enter 20-7 in a cell, and it will become Saturday,
July 20,2012 or Saturday, 20 July 2012 depending upon what format I use.
(The last one would require selecting User-defined Category and the
appropriate entries in the Format code box.)
  Ah yes, the "weird" USA way. While I had the Format dialog open
with UK as the Language, I noticed something in the list of Format
examples: MM-DD! If it should be DD/MM/YY, then why should it also be
MM/DD? OK so the USA way is weird, but then so is the British. Check it
out.  Chuckle, Chuckle! (From where this is located in the Format
example list, I think I know why it is this way. (ISO 8601) But I could
not resist replying to Tom's comment.

--Dan


 Sorry folks, but this is too good to be kept a "secret." Source: 
Wikipedia, article: Calendar Date. Here is a quote from it:


 "This sequence is used primarily in the United States, partially 
in Canada, and a few other countries[citation needed]. This date format 
was commonly used alongside the small endian form in the United Kingdom 
until the early 20th Century, and can be found in both defunct and 
modern print media such as the London Gazette and The Times, 
respectively. In the UK, it would be verbally expressed as Sunday, 
November the 9th, whereas in the United States, it is usually Sunday, 
November 9th, although usage of "the" isn't uncommon."


 So now we know where the USA got its weird format for dates: from 
the UK! Particularly from London England.

 Oh happy day! Big Smile!

--Dan



Tom Davies wrote:

Hi :)
I thought the USA way was the amazingly weird
mm/dd/yy

Apparently it's important to use / instead of - in order to make sure
it's easier to mis-read.  With some people's handwriting an 11 might
look like 1/ or vice-versa.
Regards from
Tom :)


--- On Mon, 23/7/12, Joep L. Blom  wrote:

From: Joep L. Blom 
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LibO 3.6.0.2 - Calc: date notation
To: users@global.libreoffice.org
Cc: "Andreas Säger" 
Date: Monday, 23 July, 2012, 22:18

On 23-07-12 21:02, Andreas Säger wrote:

Am 23.07.2012 14:44, Guy Voets wrote:

Hi folks,

A LibO spreadsheet, made in LibO, Dutch version (no Excel or OOo past).

  - In LibO 3.5.5, I used to give in dates as 20-7 and they were
shown as
  20 Jul 12.
  - In LibO 3.6.0.2, if I enter 20-7, 20-7 is shown in the cell.

If I enter 20-7-12, the date is inverted into 12 Jul 2020.
So instead of entering 20-7, I now need to enter 12-7-20 to get the
desired
notation 20 Jul 12.

Is this a new feature, or a bug?



This is just another anti-feature that has been added to Calc against
all reason simply because too many inexperienced users who never really
used any spreadsheets insisted loudly enough.
I will upgrade my LibreOffice 3.5 to ApacheOpenOffice 3.4.1.



I resent the US way of ISO 8601. We Dutch and other Europeans use the
more logical sequence of day-month-year instead of the illogical
year-month-day.(most important first, least important last: very often
the year can be missed).
Joep










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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LibO 3.6.0.2 - Calc: date notation

2012-07-23 Thread Dan 
 Let me see: open Calc in LO 3.6.0.2 and format a column selecting 
the Category as Date and the Language as English(UK). It does not seem 
to matter what is selected as the Format. (I selected 31/12/99.) Enter 
20-7 in a cell. It becomes 20/7/12. When 20/7 is entered in a cell of 
the column, 20/7/12 is the result.
 It is a matter of formatting the column, cell, or row for the type 
of data to be placed in the sheet. With the correct format 
[English(USA)], I can enter 20-7 in a cell, and it will become Saturday, 
July 20,2012 or Saturday, 20 July 2012 depending upon what format I use. 
(The last one would require selecting User-defined Category and the 
appropriate entries in the Format code box.)
 Ah yes, the "weird" USA way. While I had the Format dialog open 
with UK as the Language, I noticed something in the list of Format 
examples: MM-DD! If it should be DD/MM/YY, then why should it also be 
MM/DD? OK so the USA way is weird, but then so is the British. Check it 
out.  Chuckle, Chuckle! (From where this is located in the Format 
example list, I think I know why it is this way. (ISO 8601) But I could 
not resist replying to Tom's comment.


--Dan

Tom Davies wrote:

Hi :)
I thought the USA way was the amazingly weird
mm/dd/yy

Apparently it's important to use / instead of - in order to make sure it's 
easier to mis-read.  With some people's handwriting an 11 might look like 1/ or 
vice-versa.
Regards from
Tom :)


--- On Mon, 23/7/12, Joep L. Blom  wrote:

From: Joep L. Blom 
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LibO 3.6.0.2 - Calc: date notation
To: users@global.libreoffice.org
Cc: "Andreas Säger" 
Date: Monday, 23 July, 2012, 22:18

On 23-07-12 21:02, Andreas Säger wrote:

Am 23.07.2012 14:44, Guy Voets wrote:

Hi folks,

A LibO spreadsheet, made in LibO, Dutch version (no Excel or OOo past).

  - In LibO 3.5.5, I used to give in dates as 20-7 and they were
shown as
  20 Jul 12.
  - In LibO 3.6.0.2, if I enter 20-7, 20-7 is shown in the cell.

If I enter 20-7-12, the date is inverted into 12 Jul 2020.
So instead of entering 20-7, I now need to enter 12-7-20 to get the
desired
notation 20 Jul 12.

Is this a new feature, or a bug?



This is just another anti-feature that has been added to Calc against
all reason simply because too many inexperienced users who never really
used any spreadsheets insisted loudly enough.
I will upgrade my LibreOffice 3.5 to ApacheOpenOffice 3.4.1.



I resent the US way of ISO 8601. We Dutch and other Europeans use the
more logical sequence of day-month-year instead of the illogical
year-month-day.(most important first, least important last: very often
the year can be missed).
Joep







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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LibO 3.6.0.2 - Calc: date notation

2012-07-23 Thread Jay Lozier 

On 07/23/2012 06:14 PM, Tom Davies wrote:

Hi :)
I thought the USA way was the amazingly weird
mm/dd/yy
It can tricky to enter dates as part of a file name in the US since / is 
reserved for use in OS path descriptions.


Apparently it's important to use / instead of - in order to make sure it's 
easier to mis-read.  With some people's handwriting an 11 might look like 1/ or 
vice-versa.
Regards from
Tom :)


--- On Mon, 23/7/12, Joep L. Blom  wrote:

From: Joep L. Blom 
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LibO 3.6.0.2 - Calc: date notation
To: users@global.libreoffice.org
Cc: "Andreas Säger" 
Date: Monday, 23 July, 2012, 22:18

On 23-07-12 21:02, Andreas Säger wrote:

Am 23.07.2012 14:44, Guy Voets wrote:

Hi folks,

A LibO spreadsheet, made in LibO, Dutch version (no Excel or OOo past).

  - In LibO 3.5.5, I used to give in dates as 20-7 and they were
shown as
  20 Jul 12.
  - In LibO 3.6.0.2, if I enter 20-7, 20-7 is shown in the cell.

If I enter 20-7-12, the date is inverted into 12 Jul 2020.
So instead of entering 20-7, I now need to enter 12-7-20 to get the
desired
notation 20 Jul 12.

Is this a new feature, or a bug?


This is just another anti-feature that has been added to Calc against
all reason simply because too many inexperienced users who never really
used any spreadsheets insisted loudly enough.
I will upgrade my LibreOffice 3.5 to ApacheOpenOffice 3.4.1.



I resent the US way of ISO 8601. We Dutch and other Europeans use the
more logical sequence of day-month-year instead of the illogical
year-month-day.(most important first, least important last: very often
the year can be missed).
Joep






--
Jay Lozier
jsloz...@gmail.com


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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LibO 3.6.0.2 - Calc: date notation

2012-07-23 Thread Jay Lozier 

On 07/23/2012 05:18 PM, Joep L. Blom wrote:

On 23-07-12 21:02, Andreas Säger wrote:

Am 23.07.2012 14:44, Guy Voets wrote:

Hi folks,

A LibO spreadsheet, made in LibO, Dutch version (no Excel or OOo past).

- In LibO 3.5.5, I used to give in dates as 20-7 and they were
shown as
20 Jul 12.
- In LibO 3.6.0.2, if I enter 20-7, 20-7 is shown in the cell.

If I enter 20-7-12, the date is inverted into 12 Jul 2020.
So instead of entering 20-7, I now need to enter 12-7-20 to get the
desired
notation 20 Jul 12.

Is this a new feature, or a bug?



This is just another anti-feature that has been added to Calc against
all reason simply because too many inexperienced users who never really
used any spreadsheets insisted loudly enough.
I will upgrade my LibreOffice 3.5 to ApacheOpenOffice 3.4.1.


I resent the US way of ISO 8601. We Dutch and other Europeans use the 
more logical sequence of day-month-year instead of the illogical 
year-month-day.(most important first, least important last: very often 
the year can be missed).
The standard US date convention is even less logical than ymd or dmy it 
is mdy. Ymd and dmy both have a progression that makes sense. I live in 
the US.

Joep






--
Jay Lozier
jsloz...@gmail.com


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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LibO 3.6.0.2 - Calc: date notation

2012-07-23 Thread Johnny Rosenberg 
2012/7/23 Joep L. Blom :
> On 23-07-12 21:02, Andreas Säger wrote:
>>
>> Am 23.07.2012 14:44, Guy Voets wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi folks,
>>>
>>> A LibO spreadsheet, made in LibO, Dutch version (no Excel or OOo past).
>>>
>>> - In LibO 3.5.5, I used to give in dates as 20-7 and they were
>>> shown as
>>> 20 Jul 12.
>>> - In LibO 3.6.0.2, if I enter 20-7, 20-7 is shown in the cell.
>>>
>>> If I enter 20-7-12, the date is inverted into 12 Jul 2020.
>>> So instead of entering 20-7, I now need to enter 12-7-20 to get the
>>> desired
>>> notation 20 Jul 12.
>>>
>>> Is this a new feature, or a bug?
>>>
>>
>> This is just another anti-feature that has been added to Calc against
>> all reason simply because too many inexperienced users who never really
>> used any spreadsheets insisted loudly enough.
>> I will upgrade my LibreOffice 3.5 to ApacheOpenOffice 3.4.1.
>>
>>
> I resent the US way of ISO 8601. We Dutch and other Europeans use the more
> logical sequence of day-month-year instead of the illogical
> year-month-day.(most important first, least important last: very often the
> year can be missed).
> Joep

I never heard that one before… Isn't the year more important than the day?
Do you prefer SS:MM:HH too?

To me, ISO 8601 (which happens to be the same as the Swedish and a few
more standards in this matter…) is logical: Long time to the left,
shorter time to the right: Year, month, day, hour, minute, second,
decimals. Anyway, no matter if you prefer year-month-day or
day-month-year, there will be no problem to understand what is
written, if the year is written with four digits (five after the year
1, if humans exist by then…).


Kind regards

Johnny Rosenberg
ジョニー・ローゼンバーグ

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LibO 3.6.0.2 - Calc: date notation

2012-07-23 Thread Tom Davies 
Hi :)
I thought the USA way was the amazingly weird
mm/dd/yy

Apparently it's important to use / instead of - in order to make sure it's 
easier to mis-read.  With some people's handwriting an 11 might look like 1/ or 
vice-versa.  
Regards from
Tom :)  


--- On Mon, 23/7/12, Joep L. Blom  wrote:

From: Joep L. Blom 
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LibO 3.6.0.2 - Calc: date notation
To: users@global.libreoffice.org
Cc: "Andreas Säger" 
Date: Monday, 23 July, 2012, 22:18

On 23-07-12 21:02, Andreas Säger wrote:
> Am 23.07.2012 14:44, Guy Voets wrote:
>> Hi folks,
>>
>> A LibO spreadsheet, made in LibO, Dutch version (no Excel or OOo past).
>>
>>     - In LibO 3.5.5, I used to give in dates as 20-7 and they were
>> shown as
>>     20 Jul 12.
>>     - In LibO 3.6.0.2, if I enter 20-7, 20-7 is shown in the cell.
>>
>> If I enter 20-7-12, the date is inverted into 12 Jul 2020.
>> So instead of entering 20-7, I now need to enter 12-7-20 to get the
>> desired
>> notation 20 Jul 12.
>>
>> Is this a new feature, or a bug?
>>
>
> This is just another anti-feature that has been added to Calc against
> all reason simply because too many inexperienced users who never really
> used any spreadsheets insisted loudly enough.
> I will upgrade my LibreOffice 3.5 to ApacheOpenOffice 3.4.1.
>
>
I resent the US way of ISO 8601. We Dutch and other Europeans use the 
more logical sequence of day-month-year instead of the illogical 
year-month-day.(most important first, least important last: very often 
the year can be missed).
Joep



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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LibO 3.6.0.2 - Calc: date notation

2012-07-23 Thread Joep L. Blom 

On 23-07-12 21:02, Andreas Säger wrote:

Am 23.07.2012 14:44, Guy Voets wrote:

Hi folks,

A LibO spreadsheet, made in LibO, Dutch version (no Excel or OOo past).

- In LibO 3.5.5, I used to give in dates as 20-7 and they were
shown as
20 Jul 12.
- In LibO 3.6.0.2, if I enter 20-7, 20-7 is shown in the cell.

If I enter 20-7-12, the date is inverted into 12 Jul 2020.
So instead of entering 20-7, I now need to enter 12-7-20 to get the
desired
notation 20 Jul 12.

Is this a new feature, or a bug?



This is just another anti-feature that has been added to Calc against
all reason simply because too many inexperienced users who never really
used any spreadsheets insisted loudly enough.
I will upgrade my LibreOffice 3.5 to ApacheOpenOffice 3.4.1.


I resent the US way of ISO 8601. We Dutch and other Europeans use the 
more logical sequence of day-month-year instead of the illogical 
year-month-day.(most important first, least important last: very often 
the year can be missed).

Joep



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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LibO 3.6.0.2 - Calc: date notation

2012-07-23 Thread Tom Davies 
Hi :)
Surely it's just a carelessness that can be undone?

Is there a bug-report we can petition?
Regards from
Tom :)  


--- On Mon, 23/7/12, Andreas Säger  wrote:

From: Andreas Säger 
Subject: [libreoffice-users] Re: LibO 3.6.0.2 - Calc: date notation
To: users@global.libreoffice.org
Date: Monday, 23 July, 2012, 20:02

Am 23.07.2012 14:44, Guy Voets wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> A LibO spreadsheet, made in LibO, Dutch version (no Excel or OOo past).
>
>     - In LibO 3.5.5, I used to give in dates as 20-7 and they were shown as
>     20 Jul 12.
>     - In LibO 3.6.0.2, if I enter 20-7, 20-7 is shown in the cell.
>
> If I enter 20-7-12, the date is inverted into 12 Jul 2020.
> So instead of entering 20-7, I now need to enter 12-7-20 to get the desired
> notation 20 Jul 12.
>
> Is this a new feature, or a bug?
>

This is just another anti-feature that has been added to Calc against 
all reason simply because too many inexperienced users who never really 
used any spreadsheets insisted loudly enough.
I will upgrade my LibreOffice 3.5 to ApacheOpenOffice 3.4.1.


-- 
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[libreoffice-users] Re: LibO 3.6.0.2 - Calc: date notation

2012-07-23 Thread Andreas Säger 

Am 23.07.2012 14:44, Guy Voets wrote:

Hi folks,

A LibO spreadsheet, made in LibO, Dutch version (no Excel or OOo past).

- In LibO 3.5.5, I used to give in dates as 20-7 and they were shown as
20 Jul 12.
- In LibO 3.6.0.2, if I enter 20-7, 20-7 is shown in the cell.

If I enter 20-7-12, the date is inverted into 12 Jul 2020.
So instead of entering 20-7, I now need to enter 12-7-20 to get the desired
notation 20 Jul 12.

Is this a new feature, or a bug?



This is just another anti-feature that has been added to Calc against 
all reason simply because too many inexperienced users who never really 
used any spreadsheets insisted loudly enough.

I will upgrade my LibreOffice 3.5 to ApacheOpenOffice 3.4.1.


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