Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Schema in Calc
On Mon, 04 Aug 2014 09:45:20 +0200 Alex Thurgood alex.thurg...@gmail.com wrote: Le 31/07/2014 00:08, Paul a écrit : Just out of interest, why would a db driver come into play? This is a spreadsheet we're talking about. The mention of db schema was merely to ask why Calc doesn't have something like it. How else would one obtain the schema in the first place ? I believe one of us is misunderstanding things. My understanding is that the OP didn't actually want a database schema, he just wanted something similar for normal spreadsheets. So basically, create normal spreadsheet from scratch, develop it over time to do some fancy calculations on multiple worksheets (or maybe even only one). Then, sometime later, want to make changes, but being unsure of what effects those changes will have in terms of other formulae relying on cells you want to modify, you would like some sort of outline of how all the data in the spreadhseet interacts. At no point in this is a database ever introduced. The word schema makes one think of a database, but I think the OP only used it to say he wanted something like it. He doesn't actually want a database schema. Now for spreadsheets, as they store unstructured data whereas databases store structured data, a schema-like outline would be well-nigh impossible to generate. But some sort of filterable listing of formulae would help a lot with the above scenario, and is what I have proposed. I think this should be a feature request for Calc, personally. Paul -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Schema in Calc
Thank you, Paul. I have followed the convolutions of the discussion with interest but you have more clearly presented what I tried to say in the beginning. After much of the discussion I now see many of the difficulties involved but I will follow your suggestion and see if I can phrase this clearly enough to present it as a Calc feature request. I must express my thanks to all who contributed. It is this type of interaction that can lead to a more useful product. Paddy On 5 August 2014 16:15, Paul paulste...@afrihost.co.za wrote: On Mon, 04 Aug 2014 09:45:20 +0200 Alex Thurgood alex.thurg...@gmail.com wrote: Le 31/07/2014 00:08, Paul a écrit : Just out of interest, why would a db driver come into play? This is a spreadsheet we're talking about. The mention of db schema was merely to ask why Calc doesn't have something like it. How else would one obtain the schema in the first place ? I believe one of us is misunderstanding things. My understanding is that the OP didn't actually want a database schema, he just wanted something similar for normal spreadsheets. So basically, create normal spreadsheet from scratch, develop it over time to do some fancy calculations on multiple worksheets (or maybe even only one). Then, sometime later, want to make changes, but being unsure of what effects those changes will have in terms of other formulae relying on cells you want to modify, you would like some sort of outline of how all the data in the spreadhseet interacts. At no point in this is a database ever introduced. The word schema makes one think of a database, but I think the OP only used it to say he wanted something like it. He doesn't actually want a database schema. Now for spreadsheets, as they store unstructured data whereas databases store structured data, a schema-like outline would be well-nigh impossible to generate. But some sort of filterable listing of formulae would help a lot with the above scenario, and is what I have proposed. I think this should be a feature request for Calc, personally. Paul -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Schema in Calc
On Tue, Aug 5, 2014, at 10:15 AM, Paul wrote: On Mon, 04 Aug 2014 09:45:20 +0200 Alex Thurgood alex.thurg...@gmail.com wrote: Le 31/07/2014 00:08, Paul a écrit : Just out of interest, why would a db driver come into play? This is a spreadsheet we're talking about. The mention of db schema was merely to ask why Calc doesn't have something like it. How else would one obtain the schema in the first place ? I believe one of us is misunderstanding things. My understanding is that the OP didn't actually want a database schema, he just wanted something similar for normal spreadsheets. Actually, the OP (me) started with Calc database because changes are easy. Changes are still under way (field names, new fields, etc.), so I'm using Base to access Calc, which gives me queries. The next step is a real db, but I'm still sorting that out. I'm not interested in RAM-resident, embedded for reasons pointed out in this thread. As the db requirements become more clear (size, number of users, structure), I'll decide. Could it be a future version of Base? Possibly, depending on how it progresses over the rest of the year. I'm looking for robust, good performance, reliable, and stright forward setup (not necessarly easy, but not requiring a db phd). Dave, -- dave boland dbola...@fastmail.fm -- http://www.fastmail.fm - Access your email from home and the web -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: Schema in Calc
Le 31/07/2014 00:08, Paul a écrit : Just out of interest, why would a db driver come into play? This is a spreadsheet we're talking about. The mention of db schema was merely to ask why Calc doesn't have something like it. How else would one obtain the schema in the first place ? As I see it there are only two possibilities : - import from an existing db connection using the db source/named ranges functionality -this requires a db context/connection and consequently a db driver; - import from a file (XML/UML or other Calc-recognisable file type) that has been obtained by exporting the schema from a database. The second way wouldn't require a db driver, but is more cumbersome IMO than being able to query the db directly for the schema because it requires specific matching of the structure to the internal representation of a Calc file, i.e. implementation of a separate import/export filter. Alex -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: Schema in Calc
Le 30/07/2014 08:37, Pat Brown a écrit : Short answer : no. As Tom has pointed out, this is db design functionality, and not Calc, although nothing is stopping anyone from developing, say, an Addon or Extension that might be able to what you are looking for - certainly not trivial though, given that db drivers are notoriously bad at (mis)representing their actual capabilities. Alex -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: Schema in Calc
Le 30/07/2014 14:39, Paul a écrit : Unfortunately not trivial to implement because it relies on the driver and the underlying db to tell the truth about what it actually supports, in terms of relations, integrity constraints, etc. As this is problematic for many drivers at the best of times, having such a feature, which I would class as a db design tool add-on, is not likely to be implemented any time soon. Alex -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Schema in Calc
Just out of interest, why would a db driver come into play? This is a spreadsheet we're talking about. The mention of db schema was merely to ask why Calc doesn't have something like it. And I do understand that a schema for calc would be nigh impossible, spreadsheets don't have to follow any basic design principles, so the spreadsheet would be the schema, but I suggested a simple list of formulae as being useful. And now that I think about it, the detective features could possibly be expanded, first to work better across worksheets, second to allow people to show all dependencies on a sheet at a time instead of per cell, and third as some sort of print preview, allowing a birds-eye overview of what's going on. Paul On Wed, 30 Jul 2014 22:48:36 +0200 Alexander Thurgood alex.thurg...@gmail.com wrote: Le 30/07/2014 08:37, Pat Brown a écrit : Short answer : no. As Tom has pointed out, this is db design functionality, and not Calc, although nothing is stopping anyone from developing, say, an Addon or Extension that might be able to what you are looking for - certainly not trivial though, given that db drivers are notoriously bad at (mis)representing their actual capabilities. Alex -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
