Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Thunderbird potential as the official/default email-client for LO? Re: [board-discuss] BoD decision from 2015-10-05

2016-02-29 Thread James Knott 
On 02/29/2016 11:18 AM, Paul D. Mirowsky wrote:
> The unique possibility to SyncPOP instead of IMAP is an interesting
> proposal.
> I would feel far more secure if Thunderbird directly re-aligned itself
> on different machines I use then have it floating out on the web.
> If LibreOffice where to take control of Thunderbird, would it be able
> to become part of an overall system to legitimize document sharing in
> both e-mail client and documents?

To have synced POP, you'd need all devices to sync with each other. 
Given that many are only on part time, that would be a real task.  You'd
need a server somewhere to manage it.  Perhaps an IMAP server?

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Thunderbird potential as the official/default email-client for LO? Re: [board-discuss] BoD decision from 2015-10-05

2016-02-29 Thread Tanstaafl 
On 2/29/2016 11:18 AM, Paul D. Mirowsky  wrote:
> The unique possibility to SyncPOP instead of IMAP is an interesting 
> proposal.

No, it isn't... assuming that by 'SyncPOP' you mean the broken POP
feature where you can 'leave messages on the server'.

If that isn't what you mean, then you'll have to elaborate.

> I would feel far more secure if Thunderbird directly re-aligned itself 
> on different machines I use then have it floating out on the web.

No clue what 'realign' means here. Do you mean 'sync'? If so, then that
is precisely what IMAP provides.

If you don't want to rely on some third party to host your mail, then
run your own IMAP server.

> If LibreOffice where to take control of Thunderbird, would it be able to 
> become part of an overall system to legitimize document sharing in both 
> e-mail client and documents?

This sounds like a broken way to refer to a groupware server.

I would love for SOGo to adding some real Groupware capabilities, like
file sharing, collaboration, etc.

But again, Thunderbird is a CLIENT. You are talking about SERVER
features, and NO, Thunderbird will NEVER become a full blown mail
SERVER. Why reinvent the wheel? We already have dovecot (and a few
others, Cyrus is good, Courier is old and on the way out, no clue about
UW-IMAP)...

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Thunderbird potential as the official/default email-client for LO? Re: [board-discuss] BoD decision from 2015-10-05

2016-02-29 Thread Paul D. Mirowsky 



On 2/28/2016 11:36 AM, James Knott wrote:

On 02/28/2016 11:21 AM, Tim---Kracked_P_P---webmaster wrote:

The only thing about Thunderbird, for me right now, was the "chore" it
was to to switch systems when the one it was on, since 2010, is now
down for repairs.  It was not geared for syncing your email between
two or more systems - i.e. desktop, laptop, and maybe tablet -
according to everything I have read.

Then you're using the wrong protocol.  If you are using POP, you will
not have syncing between systems.  If you use IMAP, you will.  With
IMAP, the messages, including sent email, are retained on the server,
where any device or app can access them.  I have two computers, with my
choice of Linux, Windows 7 or Windows 10, a tablet and smart phone.  All
of them have access to all my email.

The unique possibility to SyncPOP instead of IMAP is an interesting 
proposal.
I would feel far more secure if Thunderbird directly re-aligned itself 
on different machines I use then have it floating out on the web.
If LibreOffice where to take control of Thunderbird, would it be able to 
become part of an overall system to legitimize document sharing in both 
e-mail client and documents?


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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Thunderbird potential as the official/default email-client for LO? Re: [board-discuss] BoD decision from 2015-10-05

2016-02-28 Thread Tanstaafl 
On 2/28/2016 1:58 PM, Ken Springer  wrote:
> On 2/28/16 9:40 AM, Tanstaafl wrote:
>> On 2/28/2016 11:21 AM, Tim---Kracked_P_P---webmaster
>>  wrote:
>>> The only thing about Thunderbird, for me right now, was the "chore" it
>>> was to to switch systems when the one it was on, since 2010, is now down
>>> for repairs.

>> That is simple - you just copy the %appdata%\Thunderbird (on Windows)
>> folder to the new system.

> If you're using Windows.  And if the two platforms are different, you 
> may break an add-on.

Good point... so you break an Addon. The fact that you can move a
profile from one platform to another and have everything mostly just
work is pretty cool, and something most programs can't even come close
to doing...

And if you're using Outlook the Windows version is completely
incompatible with the Mac version...

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[libreoffice-users] Re: Thunderbird potential as the official/default email-client for LO? Re: [board-discuss] BoD decision from 2015-10-05

2016-02-28 Thread Ken Springer 

On 2/28/16 9:40 AM, Tanstaafl wrote:

On 2/28/2016 11:21 AM, Tim---Kracked_P_P---webmaster
 wrote:

The only thing about Thunderbird, for me right now, was the "chore" it
was to to switch systems when the one it was on, since 2010, is now down
for repairs.


That is simple - you just copy the %appdata%\Thunderbird (on Windows)
folder to the new system.


If you're using Windows.  And if the two platforms are different, you 
may break an add-on.



It was not geared for syncing your email between two or
more systems - i.e. desktop, laptop, and maybe tablet - according to
everything I have read.


No fat (desktop) email client is designed to do that. That is what IMAP
is for.

When using IMAP, starting from scratch, is simple (just add the accounts
back in), and as long as you use IMAP on all systems, mail is always in
sync, because all changes happen server side.


I do not really think we should to bundle Thunderbird with LibreOffice,


Agreed, it should always be a separate install...

One question I have is, in what way(s) could or should TB better
integrate with Libreoffice, other than maybe a simple (e)mail merge
function?




--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 44.0
Thunderbird 38.0.1
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
 and it's gone!"


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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Thunderbird potential as the official/default email-client for LO? Re: [board-discuss] BoD decision from 2015-10-05

2016-02-28 Thread Tanstaafl 
On 2/28/2016 11:21 AM, Tim---Kracked_P_P---webmaster
 wrote:
> The only thing about Thunderbird, for me right now, was the "chore" it 
> was to to switch systems when the one it was on, since 2010, is now down 
> for repairs.

That is simple - you just copy the %appdata%\Thunderbird (on Windows)
folder to the new system.

> It was not geared for syncing your email between two or 
> more systems - i.e. desktop, laptop, and maybe tablet - according to 
> everything I have read.

No fat (desktop) email client is designed to do that. That is what IMAP
is for.

When using IMAP, starting from scratch, is simple (just add the accounts
back in), and as long as you use IMAP on all systems, mail is always in
sync, because all changes happen server side.

> I do not really think we should to bundle Thunderbird with LibreOffice,

Agreed, it should always be a separate install...

One question I have is, in what way(s) could or should TB better
integrate with Libreoffice, other than maybe a simple (e)mail merge
function?

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Thunderbird potential as the official/default email-client for LO? Re: [board-discuss] BoD decision from 2015-10-05

2016-02-28 Thread James Knott 
On 02/28/2016 11:21 AM, Tim---Kracked_P_P---webmaster wrote:
> The only thing about Thunderbird, for me right now, was the "chore" it
> was to to switch systems when the one it was on, since 2010, is now
> down for repairs.  It was not geared for syncing your email between
> two or more systems - i.e. desktop, laptop, and maybe tablet -
> according to everything I have read.

Then you're using the wrong protocol.  If you are using POP, you will
not have syncing between systems.  If you use IMAP, you will.  With
IMAP, the messages, including sent email, are retained on the server,
where any device or app can access them.  I have two computers, with my
choice of Linux, Windows 7 or Windows 10, a tablet and smart phone.  All
of them have access to all my email.

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Thunderbird potential as the official/default email-client for LO? Re: [board-discuss] BoD decision from 2015-10-05

2016-02-28 Thread Tim---Kracked_P_P---webmaster 


I have not been following this discussion, BUT from a guy who is typing 
this comment using Thunderbird, having been using it for years. . .


The only thing about Thunderbird, for me right now, was the "chore" it 
was to to switch systems when the one it was on, since 2010, is now down 
for repairs.  It was not geared for syncing your email between two or 
more systems - i.e. desktop, laptop, and maybe tablet - according to 
everything I have read.


I really like Thunderbird, other than that, and have been using it since 
I was still using my original WinXP system when MS's personal email 
package "failed".  Now I have been using it on a Ubuntu system - desktop 
then laptop.


I do not really think we should to bundle Thunderbird with LibreOffice, 
but we may be able to promote Thunderbird as a "partner software" 
especially on Windows systems. I know that Windows want us to use their 
packages.  If we promoted Thunderbird on Windows systems, since Linux 
systems, mostly[?], installs Thunderbird as the default email client.


MS Office became really bloated early, with packages that was what they 
thought users need other than what LibreOffice currently installs.  LO 
has done a really good job with what is included.  I really do not want 
to include other opensource packages, other than maybe extension 
resources.  Do we want to commit to adding an email package to what LO 
developers need to work on, or a package like Inkscape?  Others have 
produced packages like those, and more, that we should not add in LO's 
installation bundle.  MS wanted to control every package that a user, 
personal or business, that MS determined they must have.  So far 
LibreOffice has not gone that way.  For me, I rarely need to use Draw, 
Impress, Math, or Base.  If we add an email package to LO's 
installation, what would be next that others might want to be included 
with LO?  What other package others want our developers to add to their 
limited development time?  We do not have the resources of a paid 
software company.  We should stick with LibreOffice's needs.


On the "promotion" of other opensource package, LO could do that. We 
could have a web page with other packages that "may" be useful to the 
users.  Those could be packages like Thunderbird and other packages that 
may complement LO that would help users in personal and professional 
work.  That would allow a user[s] to choose what additional packages to 
download and use, instead include them within a single download file.  
We currently have language options for interface and help installs, and 
not require users to download ones that they do not want to use, or at 
least for non-Windows installs.


Let LibreOffice be its current configuration and not add packages.  
Should we support other opensource package. Yes, but in a way[s] that 
does not require LO people to develop it.


On 02/28/2016 09:54 AM, Peter Maunder wrote:

Hi Tom,

We use both LibreOffice and Thunderbird running under Linux-Mint. I have
been concerned about the future of Thunderbird since the Mozilla statement
concerning the future of the software.

I am delighted that The Document Foundation is considering bringing TB under
its wing, thoroughly support this aim and have the following brief comments.

1) We should not change the name, as this will lead to confusion. I still
have problems with my users confusing LibreOffice and OpenOffice.org. Some
of them still call LibreOffice OpenOffice although they have been usingLibO
for some time.

2) Thunderbird is cross system and runs under Linux, Windows and MacOS, just
like LibO.

3) LibO supports the Mozilla Personas/Theme function, but the operational
interface of LibO leaves a great deal to be desired. Perhaps we could import
the user interface of Thunderbird Personas Plus to LibO to fix this lack. We
could thus manage the header/footer loock consistently across the products.

Anyway, I wish the project every success Peter



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[libreoffice-users] Re: Thunderbird potential as the official/default email-client for LO? Re: [board-discuss] BoD decision from 2015-10-05

2016-02-28 Thread Peter Maunder 
Hi Tom,

We use both LibreOffice and Thunderbird running under Linux-Mint. I have
been concerned about the future of Thunderbird since the Mozilla statement
concerning the future of the software.

I am delighted that The Document Foundation is considering bringing TB under
its wing, thoroughly support this aim and have the following brief comments.

1) We should not change the name, as this will lead to confusion. I still
have problems with my users confusing LibreOffice and OpenOffice.org. Some
of them still call LibreOffice OpenOffice although they have been usingLibO
for some time.

2) Thunderbird is cross system and runs under Linux, Windows and MacOS, just
like LibO.

3) LibO supports the Mozilla Personas/Theme function, but the operational
interface of LibO leaves a great deal to be desired. Perhaps we could import
the user interface of Thunderbird Personas Plus to LibO to fix this lack. We
could thus manage the header/footer loock consistently across the products.

Anyway, I wish the project every success Peter



--
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http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Thunderbird-potential-as-the-official-default-email-client-for-LO-Re-board-discuss-BoD-decision-from5-tp4176683p4176856.html
Sent from the Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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[libreoffice-users] Re: Thunderbird potential as the official/default email-client for LO? Re: [board-discuss] BoD decision from 2015-10-05

2016-02-27 Thread Ken Springer 

Hi, Tom.

I've thought over a reply for your question for quite sometime, finally 
decided to just add some thoughts.


Except for a thread on printing labels (which appears to be a printer 
driver problem in this case), I've not posted here for a very long time.


Nor do I use LO on a regular basis.  I use it for labels because the 
free office suite I'm currently using does not have label capability. 
And maybe once a year, I write something sort of serious.  I do that 
just to see how much has changed.  Here on the Mac, I have Word 2011 for 
regular use.  The free office suite I am using now is FreeOffice from 
Softmaker, and it's on Windows 7.  I like it enough that I'm considering 
purchasing Softmaker 2016.  The free version is 2012.


The attitude of LO devs turned me off years ago, and I've seen nothing 
since to bring me back.  And the icons and UI overall in 5.?.?  Geez, my 
Atari 1040 ST running TOS 4 (I think) had much better icons.  People 
should be ashamed of this new fad in UI appearance, IMO.


Oh, wait.  I see there are Themes in 5. Cool.  No, there are no Themes 
to choose from.  If you don't have something as simple as themes ready 
to go, why bother?


I would like to see LO do well, but I don't recommend it for most people 
anymore.  Why?  Most people don't need all the bells and whistles of LO. 
 And they don't need Word for the same reason.  I tell people to sit 
down and scrutinize/analyze what they need from an office suite.  Do 
they even need an office suite?  Maybe WordPad on Windows and TextEdit 
on the Mac is all they need.  And there's plenty of software between 
both extremes on both platforms to fill people's needs.


And many times, people will use an office suite to do something, and an 
office suite is simply the wrong tool for the job at hand.


For those that don't know, Softmaker 2016 (Pro version only, I think) 
includes a customized copy of Thunderbird.  What the differences are, I 
do not know.


I see a lot of posts around about how good TB is, but most never seem to 
run into the issues I find.  I have no idea why.  Just last week I was 
reminded of a bug in the address book.  Edit an entry, and save.  Now I 
have that address in the address book 2 times.  Delete one of them, and 
both go away.


The archive files for one account disappeared for 3 years.  Cursor 
movement has a problem in HTML composition, in that it doesn't go where 
it belongs.


And the answers to many questions in Mozilla's Thunderbird group for 
solving problems is to create a new profile and start over.  That's NOT 
a fix.  Needless to say, I rarely read that group anymore either.


When it comes to offering support as far as using TB is concerned, if 
it's to LO's advantage to do so, go for it.  But I get so effing tired 
of having to go to 5 or 10 forums to find answers to program because the 
answer is not in/on the program's site. For LO, I would offer the extra 
help to Mozilla's newsgroup so there's one less place to spend time 
registering and checking in on whatever your regular basis is.  Plus, it 
would give you another avenue of exposure for LO.


IMO, even better TB support would be to help the TB devs solve a lot of 
the bugs that exist.


The above issues could be solved by absorbing the entire TB effort as 
you suggested.  And is a reasonable solution, IMO.  But I hope LO devs 
take a different attitude than they appeared to have when I was a 
regular user.  Devs seemed to be more interested in adding features 
rather than fixing issues they knew existed.


Do a few things right rather than a lot of things wrong.

Both TB and FF have the same weak link, that of using add-ons.  What 
often happened is folks like me would install add-ons that became part 
of their workflow.  Then both would come out with a new version, 
breaking the add-on and thus breaking the workflow.  Now, do you think 
that made anyone happy?


I used to extol the virtues of TB and FF, but enough breakage was 
enough.  I just tell people I use them and they work OK.


I think your point of "Freedom from Choice" is driven more by the costs 
of providing support of many programs.  In the US Government agency I 
worked for, there were limits on what you could install on the 
computers, if your unit had no local support system.  If you were a 
large enough unit, supplying 100% of the unit's IT support, permission 
could be obtained to install a program not on the approved list.


I haven't used Outlook since Outlook 2007, and IIRC, the "rules" in 
Outlook are far more sophisticated than TB's.


I think I'll snip your message and save people the work of having to 
deal with it.  LOL


Best of luck.



--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 44.0
Thunderbird 38.0.1
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
 and it's gone!"


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