Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: crash - crash - crash - crash. !@#$#@!
Jim, MORE threatening language? Witness a large mind at work. So, Jim, you find being bored more objectionable than backchannel bullying. Got it. This actually isn't about you. It isn't even about me. Does this list have a problem? I haven't the time right now to finish writing what I have to say. I will, in a few hours. If the list finds it irrelevant, so be it. But to attempt to shut me up before you've even hear what I have to say? That alone makes you irrelevant. This problem requires thought, not threats. If this is a problem for you, sit down. Tom On 05/10/2014 09:21 AM, Jim Seymour wrote: Tom, You're tedious. Don't attempt to email me again. If you do, you'll find out how *I* deal with annoying, tedious people--whom I find more objectionable than people like Urmas. Jim -- ~~~ Tom Cloyd, MS MA (LMHC, WA State) Cedar City / St. George, UT, U.S.A: (435) 272-3332 * t...@tomcloyd.com (email) TomCloyd.com (website) * Sleight of Mind blog: Sleightmind.com (mental health issues) * Founder: Google+ Trauma and Dissociation Education and Advocacy community ~~~ -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: crash - crash - crash - crash. !@#$#@!
On Fri, 09 May 2014 11:05:01 -0600 Tom Cloyd tomcloydm...@gmail.com wrote: Greetings. I disagree, Tom, in the strongest possible terms. I've been extremely busy this week, doing what I do - taking care of victims of interpersonal abuse of all sorts. This Urmas matter is far from resolved, as far as I'm concerned. [snip] Tom, It's been addressed. It's been discussed to death. Time to shake the sand out of your panties and move on. You're becoming tedious. Regards, Jim -- Note: My mail server employs *very* aggressive anti-spam filtering. If you reply to this email and your email is rejected, please accept my apologies and let me know via my web form at http://jimsun.LinxNet.com/contact/scform.php. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: crash - crash - crash - crash. !@#$#@!
Jim, Discussing isn't resolving. You, and a number of others, clearly do not grasp the issue at all. Or maybe you're just indifferent to abuse. Well, I'm not. When I'm finished with this, I'll be quiet, and not before. As I said, I've been occupied with higher priorities all week. That should not cause the matter to become irrelevant. And I find the gender-related slam very revealing. Real men don't attempt to shut up other men either by using abusive language or by suggesting they're somehow acting like the other gender. Looks like another bullying-attempt to me - because it is. I'm quite sure the few women involved in this list recognized the slam, and didn't like it one bit. I've heard from exactly three women about this, one, backchannel. All three spoke in strongly and clearly in their rejection of the bullying behavior which started this thread. That rather tells us who's leading here and who's just irrelevant. If you're disinterested, go elsewhere. Tom On 05/10/2014 07:00 AM, Jim Seymour wrote: On Fri, 09 May 2014 11:05:01 -0600 Tom Cloyd tomcloydm...@gmail.com wrote: Greetings. I disagree, Tom, in the strongest possible terms. I've been extremely busy this week, doing what I do - taking care of victims of interpersonal abuse of all sorts. This Urmas matter is far from resolved, as far as I'm concerned. [snip] Tom, It's been addressed. It's been discussed to death. Time to shake the sand out of your panties and move on. You're becoming tedious. Regards, Jim -- ~~~ Tom Cloyd, MS MA (LMHC, WA State) Cedar City / St. George, UT, U.S.A: (435) 272-3332 * t...@tomcloyd.com (email) TomCloyd.com (website) * Sleight of Mind blog: Sleightmind.com (mental health issues) * Founder: Google+ Trauma and Dissociation Education and Advocacy community ~~~ -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: crash - crash - crash - crash. !@#$#@!
Hi :) Nope. You missed nothing by filtering Urmas, don't worry. Regards from Tom :) On 9 May 2014 05:42, NoOp gl...@sbcglobal.net wrote: On 05/08/2014 07:28 PM, V Stuart Foote vstuart.fo...@utsa.edu wrote: @NoOp Full threads in context are available on the Nabble service: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Users-f1639498.html Thanks, I can read full threads. I had filtered Urmas some time back. However, my question was more directed towards Tom Davies who jumped into the same subthread following Tom Cloyd's response to me. From: NoOp gl...@sbcglobal.net Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2014 9:15 PM To: users@global.libreoffice.org Subject: [libreoffice-users] Re: crash - crash - crash - crash. !@#$#@! On 05/04/2014 04:34 AM, Tom Davies wrote: Hi Tom :) Good answers to Urmas there. Considerate, understanding and light-hearted. Nicely done! :) Did I miss something? Who/what is Urmas? -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: crash - crash - crash - crash. !@#$#@!
Greetings. I disagree, Tom, in the strongest possible terms. I've been extremely busy this week, doing what I do - taking care of victims of interpersonal abuse of all sorts. This Urmas matter is far from resolved, as far as I'm concerned. Every work group, and that's what this is - we're here to get work done, has at least two legitimate and necessary functions, from the point of view of groups process: 1. The work which brings the group together. Most people, especially males, focus on this. It's only natural. 2. Group process and maintenance concerns. This is usually taken up, if at all, only when some crisis arises (a bad practice), and is much more often a focus for females than for males. One sees this gender differential in families as well. The big point to be made is that success with #1 depends on success with #2, though this is often not well recognized. As I am escaping a bit from my own work week, I'll return to this issue here. I definitely am not finished, and I will be attempting to refocus people on the real issue which I raised in my initial post about Urmas. I'll give a synopsis for those who are arriving to this late. I'll also start a new thread, as this present thread was really about an LO instability problem I was having which is now resolved by the current Master. The issue for me, and I think for all of us, is about this list's being a safe place to resolve LO problems. That statement requires clarification, and I'll provide that. Tom On 05/09/2014 02:53 AM, Tom Davies wrote: Hi :) Nope. You missed nothing by filtering Urmas, don't worry. Regards from Tom :) On 9 May 2014 05:42, NoOp gl...@sbcglobal.net wrote: On 05/08/2014 07:28 PM, V Stuart Foote vstuart.fo...@utsa.edu wrote: @NoOp Full threads in context are available on the Nabble service: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Users-f1639498.html Thanks, I can read full threads. I had filtered Urmas some time back. However, my question was more directed towards Tom Davies who jumped into the same subthread following Tom Cloyd's response to me. From: NoOp gl...@sbcglobal.net Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2014 9:15 PM To: users@global.libreoffice.org Subject: [libreoffice-users] Re: crash - crash - crash - crash. !@#$#@! On 05/04/2014 04:34 AM, Tom Davies wrote: Hi Tom :) Good answers to Urmas there. Considerate, understanding and light-hearted. Nicely done! :) Did I miss something? Who/what is Urmas? -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- ~~~ Tom Cloyd, MS MA (LMHC, WA State) Cedar City / St. George, UT, U.S.A: (435) 272-3332 * t...@tomcloyd.com (email) TomCloyd.com (website) * Sleight of Mind blog: Sleightmind.com (mental health issues) * Founder: Google+ Trauma and Dissociation Education and Advocacy community ~~~ -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: crash - crash - crash - crash. !@#$#@!
On 05/04/2014 04:34 AM, Tom Davies wrote: Hi Tom :) Good answers to Urmas there. Considerate, understanding and light-hearted. Nicely done! :) Did I miss something? Who/what is Urmas? -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
RE: [libreoffice-users] Re: crash - crash - crash - crash. !@#$#@!
@NoOp Full threads in context are available on the Nabble service: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Users-f1639498.html From: NoOp gl...@sbcglobal.net Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2014 9:15 PM To: users@global.libreoffice.org Subject: [libreoffice-users] Re: crash - crash - crash - crash. !@#$#@! On 05/04/2014 04:34 AM, Tom Davies wrote: Hi Tom :) Good answers to Urmas there. Considerate, understanding and light-hearted. Nicely done! :) Did I miss something? Who/what is Urmas? -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: crash - crash - crash - crash. !@#$#@!
On 05/08/2014 07:28 PM, V Stuart Foote vstuart.fo...@utsa.edu wrote: @NoOp Full threads in context are available on the Nabble service: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Users-f1639498.html Thanks, I can read full threads. I had filtered Urmas some time back. However, my question was more directed towards Tom Davies who jumped into the same subthread following Tom Cloyd's response to me. From: NoOp gl...@sbcglobal.net Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2014 9:15 PM To: users@global.libreoffice.org Subject: [libreoffice-users] Re: crash - crash - crash - crash. !@#$#@! On 05/04/2014 04:34 AM, Tom Davies wrote: Hi Tom :) Good answers to Urmas there. Considerate, understanding and light-hearted. Nicely done! :) Did I miss something? Who/what is Urmas? -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: Request for review: (Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: crash - crash - crash - crash. !@#$#@!)
On Sat, 03 May 2014 13:12:47 -0600 Tom Cloyd tomcloydm...@gmail.com wrote: Re: status of forum participant Urmas - I've examined the past 3 months' posts by this individual - approximately 25% of them are slams of LO software or insults to some individual participating in this forum. Yeah, he's pretty much regarded as a Microsoft shill. I guess it doesn't occur to him his behaviour reflects badly on his love. Why is this tolerated? Do we not have elementary behavioral guidelines here? Shouldn't we have? They could boot him. Then he could get a new email address somewhere else, and start all over again. Wash, rinse, repeat. People like him are dumber than a box of rocks wrt social issues, but tend to be very knowledgeable about how to be a PITA. [snip] I urge that this individual be suspended from participation in this forum for at least a week. If there's another infraction, then make it a month. Just put him in a set-and-forget filter on your email client and be done with it. Hopefully nobody on the mailing list will have the bad sense to copy his nonsense to the mailing list, and Urmas will be gone from your life. Q: If an Urmas howls on the 'net and nobody sees him, does he matter? A: He never mattered in the first place, so the question is moot. Jim -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: crash - crash - crash - crash. !@#$#@!
Hi :) I don't see how this mailing-list could stop anyone from writing private emails to people who have written in to this mailing list. We have to work with what we have got. I agree it might be a good idea to encourage people to forwards Urmas' off-list remarks to somewhere but i'm not sure this list would be the best place. I'm not saying it definitely wouldn't be the best place, just that there are pros and cons to doing so. There is a moderators list and a postmasters email address, but sending just to them would keep those posts off this list and although that would be good in some ways it creates potential problems in others. If this mailing-list made it more difficult to respond to individuals than to the whole list then that might reduce the potential for that sort of behaviour but wouldn't eliminate it. Regards from Tom :) On 4 May 2014 14:41, Tom Cloyd tomcloydm...@gmail.com wrote: Tom, I have to strongly disagree. As I've pointed out, bullies flourish when they can act unseen. This is personality disordered behavior (if I may put on my professional hat for a moment). It's due to lack of appropriate internal controls to structure behavior. The solution that works is not to yield ground but to provide external structure. Put plainly, that is about push back. One doesn't need to get riled. *One just needs to get clear, then act.* His behavior is unacceptable. Period. (And that's putting it politely.) The next person he does this to may be a 12 year old struggling to get a grip on the software and making a mess of it. You want to turn him loose to have at her? Really? I don't think you, and others, have really thought this through. He knows he's being watched, and yet he acts as if there is no problem for him at all. Why? *Because there isn't*. That needs to change. I suggest two solutions: he should be banished from the list. If he comes back, repeat as needed. And, until action is taken, all inappropriate emails from him or anyone else should be forwarded to the list. No cover for bullies, as I've already said. I've dealt with people like this on other lists, in my neighborhood, at work (my boss!), and in adolescent treatment centers and mental hospitals. It's always the same drill. One warning, then you lower the boom, decisively. Someone WILL be in control: it's them or it us. We have to decide. I DO expect an appropriate and effective response from this list, not some ineffectual roll-over. Tom On 05/04/2014 07:19 AM, Tom Davies wrote: Hi :) Various lists have had discussions about that sort of thing in general and about the specific case. It's a tricky one to handle but i figure the best on-list way is to just not get riled by his on-list replies. Regards from Tom :) On 4 May 2014 13:27, Tom Cloyd tomcloydm...@gmail.com wrote: Tom - On 05/04/2014 05:34 AM, Tom Davies wrote: Hi Tom :) Good answers to Urmas there. Considerate, understanding and light-hearted. Nicely done! :) I was allowing for the possibility that he wasn't serious. Turns out not to be true. I've almost never found 'professional' proprietary stuff to be any better than OpenSource. My experience exactly. Indeed a new study by an independant security company found that OpenSource had slightly less errors per 1,000 lines of code. There is also the usual faster response time to fixing issues due to even mere normal users being able to report issues quickly and fairly easily and perhaps even getting involved in solving the problem and discovering coding skills. *Faster response time:* Yes. I've been running the latest alpha build. My vector M nonsense problem is gone. But there was a problem with row sorting crashing the program. I just installed the very latest Master, on the advice of the dev replying to my bug report. Now THAT problem appears to be gone. This is all very cool. *Getting involved: *Yes, also. I'm learning the bug reporting interface and protocol, in the process. Is easy enough. Looks like I've found a way I can contribute, with my very limited time. That, too, is very cool. Now we just need to get right of the Urmas bullying bug and we'll be all set. I'll be watching that one especially closely. t. Regards from Tom :) On 4 May 2014 00:39, Tom Cloyd tomcloydm...@gmail.com wrote: No I didn't. It went fine. I've been using it all day. Some problems have arisen, but I'm working through them and trying to find the pattern so I can report them usefully. t. On Sat, May 3, 2014 at 5:08 PM, NoOp gl...@sbcglobal.net mailto: gl...@sbcglobal.net wrote: On 05/02/2014 07:19 AM, Tom Cloyd wrote: Stuart, Update and status report - good news! - 1. I've installed Version: 4.3.0.0.alpha1 Build ID: 46cfcd5a05aa1d13fecd73f5a25b64b8d8dd6781. Did you by chance experience any dependency errors during your install? See:
Re: Request for review: (Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: crash - crash - crash - crash. !@#$#@!)
Hi :) +1 i agree that banning or booting is not as easy as it might seem. I think that it's more difficult for a bully to be effective when 1. the mailing list is supportive of individuals coming here and 2. when the mailing list is clearly not of the same opinion as the bully What doesn't help is when the mailing list gets bogged down in some flame-war or has a big fight over the issues or when personal insults fly to-and-fro. When someone new sees insults flying in from both sides it's difficult to see either side as (or any side) as being acceptable. I'm not suggesting that we sweep this under the rug nor that we avoid the issue nor pretend it doesn't exist. It does exist and at the moment we are lucky it is only 1 person. Once MS starts to get seriously worried about LO then history might repeat itself and we find ourselves swamped with many more. We already see that in the Comments sections under many articles, in the press, about LibreOffice. I'm not disagreeing with Tom or anyone else that has argued for banning and other punitive measures. On the contrary i think such measures could well prove useful in many cases and might even work sometimes or at least discourage such behaviour even if they are not always as effective as we would hope for. The more tools we have for dealing with this sort of behaviour the better imo. Regards from Tom :) On 4 May 2014 14:40, Jim Seymour jseym...@linxnet.com wrote: On Sat, 03 May 2014 13:12:47 -0600 Tom Cloyd tomcloydm...@gmail.com wrote: Re: status of forum participant Urmas - I've examined the past 3 months' posts by this individual - approximately 25% of them are slams of LO software or insults to some individual participating in this forum. Yeah, he's pretty much regarded as a Microsoft shill. I guess it doesn't occur to him his behaviour reflects badly on his love. Why is this tolerated? Do we not have elementary behavioral guidelines here? Shouldn't we have? They could boot him. Then he could get a new email address somewhere else, and start all over again. Wash, rinse, repeat. People like him are dumber than a box of rocks wrt social issues, but tend to be very knowledgeable about how to be a PITA. [snip] I urge that this individual be suspended from participation in this forum for at least a week. If there's another infraction, then make it a month. Just put him in a set-and-forget filter on your email client and be done with it. Hopefully nobody on the mailing list will have the bad sense to copy his nonsense to the mailing list, and Urmas will be gone from your life. Q: If an Urmas howls on the 'net and nobody sees him, does he matter? A: He never mattered in the first place, so the question is moot. Jim -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: Request for review: (Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: crash - crash - crash - crash. !@#$#@!)
If a given poster is routinely offensive, I find it very effective to ignore said poster. If nobody responds to an offensive post, then the poster loses an audience. Virgil On 05/04/2014 01:24 PM, Tom Davies wrote: Hi :) +1 i agree that banning or booting is not as easy as it might seem. I think that it's more difficult for a bully to be effective when 1. the mailing list is supportive of individuals coming here and 2. when the mailing list is clearly not of the same opinion as the bully What doesn't help is when the mailing list gets bogged down in some flame-war or has a big fight over the issues or when personal insults fly to-and-fro. When someone new sees insults flying in from both sides it's difficult to see either side as (or any side) as being acceptable. I'm not suggesting that we sweep this under the rug nor that we avoid the issue nor pretend it doesn't exist. It does exist and at the moment we are lucky it is only 1 person. Once MS starts to get seriously worried about LO then history might repeat itself and we find ourselves swamped with many more. We already see that in the Comments sections under many articles, in the press, about LibreOffice. I'm not disagreeing with Tom or anyone else that has argued for banning and other punitive measures. On the contrary i think such measures could well prove useful in many cases and might even work sometimes or at least discourage such behaviour even if they are not always as effective as we would hope for. The more tools we have for dealing with this sort of behaviour the better imo. Regards from Tom :) On 4 May 2014 14:40, Jim Seymour jseym...@linxnet.com wrote: On Sat, 03 May 2014 13:12:47 -0600 Tom Cloyd tomcloydm...@gmail.com wrote: Re: status of forum participant Urmas - I've examined the past 3 months' posts by this individual - approximately 25% of them are slams of LO software or insults to some individual participating in this forum. Yeah, he's pretty much regarded as a Microsoft shill. I guess it doesn't occur to him his behaviour reflects badly on his love. Why is this tolerated? Do we not have elementary behavioral guidelines here? Shouldn't we have? They could boot him. Then he could get a new email address somewhere else, and start all over again. Wash, rinse, repeat. People like him are dumber than a box of rocks wrt social issues, but tend to be very knowledgeable about how to be a PITA. [snip] I urge that this individual be suspended from participation in this forum for at least a week. If there's another infraction, then make it a month. Just put him in a set-and-forget filter on your email client and be done with it. Hopefully nobody on the mailing list will have the bad sense to copy his nonsense to the mailing list, and Urmas will be gone from your life. Q: If an Urmas howls on the 'net and nobody sees him, does he matter? A: He never mattered in the first place, so the question is moot. Jim -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: Request for review: (Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: crash - crash - crash - crash. !@#$#@!)
Jim Seymour wrote: Just put him in a set-and-forget filter on your email client and be done with it. Hopefully nobody on the mailing list will have the bad sense to copy his nonsense to the mailing list, and Urmas will be gone from your life. That is indeed sensible advise. And now let's return to normal levels of civility here on this list. Cheers, -- Thorsten -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: Request for review: (Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: crash - crash - crash - crash. !@#$#@!)
On Sun, 4 May 2014 09:40:36 -0400 Jim Seymour jseym...@linxnet.com wrote: On Sat, 03 May 2014 13:12:47 -0600 Tom Cloyd tomcloydm...@gmail.com wrote: Re: status of forum participant Urmas - I've examined the past 3 months' posts by this individual - approximately 25% of them are slams of LO software or insults to some individual participating in this forum. Yeah, he's pretty much regarded as a Microsoft shill. I guess it doesn't occur to him his behaviour reflects badly on his love. Why is this tolerated? Do we not have elementary behavioral guidelines here? Shouldn't we have? They could boot him. Then he could get a new email address somewhere else, and start all over again. Wash, rinse, repeat. People like him are dumber than a box of rocks wrt social issues, but tend to be very knowledgeable about how to be a PITA. [snip] I urge that this individual be suspended from participation in this forum for at least a week. If there's another infraction, then make it a month. Just put him in a set-and-forget filter on your email client and be done with it. Hopefully nobody on the mailing list will have the bad sense to copy his nonsense to the mailing list, and Urmas will be gone from your life. Q: If an Urmas howls on the 'net and nobody sees him, does he matter? A: He never mattered in the first place, so the question is moot. Jim +1 Pete . -- Linux 7-of-9 3.14.2-1-ARCH #1 SMP PREEMPT Sun Apr 27 11:28:44 CEST 2014 x86_64 GNU/Linux -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: crash - crash - crash - crash. !@#$#@!
Tom, I have to strongly disagree. As I've pointed out, bullies flourish when they can act unseen. This is personality disordered behavior (if I may put on my professional hat for a moment). It's due to lack of appropriate internal controls to structure behavior. The solution that works is not to yield ground but to provide external structure. Put plainly, that is about push back. One doesn't need to get riled. _One just needs to get clear, then act._ His behavior is unacceptable. Period. (And that's putting it politely.) The next person he does this to may be a 12 year old struggling to get a grip on the software and making a mess of it. You want to turn him loose to have at her? Really? I don't think you, and others, have really thought this through. He knows he's being watched, and yet he acts as if there is no problem for him at all. Why? _Because there isn't_. That needs to change. I suggest two solutions: he should be banished from the list. If he comes back, repeat as needed. And, until action is taken, all inappropriate emails from him or anyone else should be forwarded to the list. No cover for bullies, as I've already said. I've dealt with people like this on other lists, in my neighborhood, at work (my boss!), and in adolescent treatment centers and mental hospitals. It's always the same drill. One warning, then you lower the boom, decisively. Someone WILL be in control: it's them or it us. We have to decide. I DO expect an appropriate and effective response from this list, not some ineffectual roll-over. Tom On 05/04/2014 07:19 AM, Tom Davies wrote: Hi :) Various lists have had discussions about that sort of thing in general and about the specific case. It's a tricky one to handle but i figure the best on-list way is to just not get riled by his on-list replies. Regards from Tom :) On 4 May 2014 13:27, Tom Cloyd tomcloydm...@gmail.com mailto:tomcloydm...@gmail.com wrote: Tom - On 05/04/2014 05:34 AM, Tom Davies wrote: Hi Tom :) Good answers to Urmas there. Considerate, understanding and light-hearted. Nicely done! :) I was allowing for the possibility that he wasn't serious. Turns out not to be true. I've almost never found 'professional' proprietary stuff to be any better than OpenSource. My experience exactly. Indeed a new study by an independant security company found that OpenSource had slightly less errors per 1,000 lines of code. There is also the usual faster response time to fixing issues due to even mere normal users being able to report issues quickly and fairly easily and perhaps even getting involved in solving the problem and discovering coding skills. *Faster response time:* Yes. I've been running the latest alpha build. My vector M nonsense problem is gone. But there was a problem with row sorting crashing the program. I just installed the very latest Master, on the advice of the dev replying to my bug report. Now THAT problem appears to be gone. This is all very cool. *Getting involved: *Yes, also.**I'm learning the bug reporting interface and protocol, in the process. Is easy enough. Looks like I've found a way I can contribute, with my very limited time. That, too, is very cool. Now we just need to get right of the Urmas bullying bug and we'll be all set. I'll be watching that one especially closely. t. Regards from Tom :) On 4 May 2014 00:39, Tom Cloyd tomcloydm...@gmail.com mailto:tomcloydm...@gmail.com wrote: No I didn't. It went fine. I've been using it all day. Some problems have arisen, but I'm working through them and trying to find the pattern so I can report them usefully. t. On Sat, May 3, 2014 at 5:08 PM, NoOp gl...@sbcglobal.net mailto:gl...@sbcglobal.net mailto:gl...@sbcglobal.net mailto:gl...@sbcglobal.net wrote: On 05/02/2014 07:19 AM, Tom Cloyd wrote: Stuart, Update and status report - good news! - 1. I've installed Version: 4.3.0.0.alpha1 Build ID: 46cfcd5a05aa1d13fecd73f5a25b64b8d8dd6781. Did you by chance experience any dependency errors during your install? See: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7823 (Dependency errors with LibreOfficeDev_4.3.0.0.alpha1_Linux_x86-64_deb install) -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org mailto:users%2bunsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org mailto:users%2bunsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org mailto:users%252bunsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more:
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: crash - crash - crash - crash. !@#$#@!
Hi :) Various lists have had discussions about that sort of thing in general and about the specific case. It's a tricky one to handle but i figure the best on-list way is to just not get riled by his on-list replies. Regards from Tom :) On 4 May 2014 13:27, Tom Cloyd tomcloydm...@gmail.com wrote: Tom - On 05/04/2014 05:34 AM, Tom Davies wrote: Hi Tom :) Good answers to Urmas there. Considerate, understanding and light-hearted. Nicely done! :) I was allowing for the possibility that he wasn't serious. Turns out not to be true. I've almost never found 'professional' proprietary stuff to be any better than OpenSource. My experience exactly. Indeed a new study by an independant security company found that OpenSource had slightly less errors per 1,000 lines of code. There is also the usual faster response time to fixing issues due to even mere normal users being able to report issues quickly and fairly easily and perhaps even getting involved in solving the problem and discovering coding skills. *Faster response time:* Yes. I've been running the latest alpha build. My vector M nonsense problem is gone. But there was a problem with row sorting crashing the program. I just installed the very latest Master, on the advice of the dev replying to my bug report. Now THAT problem appears to be gone. This is all very cool. *Getting involved: *Yes, also. I'm learning the bug reporting interface and protocol, in the process. Is easy enough. Looks like I've found a way I can contribute, with my very limited time. That, too, is very cool. Now we just need to get right of the Urmas bullying bug and we'll be all set. I'll be watching that one especially closely. t. Regards from Tom :) On 4 May 2014 00:39, Tom Cloyd tomcloydm...@gmail.com wrote: No I didn't. It went fine. I've been using it all day. Some problems have arisen, but I'm working through them and trying to find the pattern so I can report them usefully. t. On Sat, May 3, 2014 at 5:08 PM, NoOp gl...@sbcglobal.net mailto: gl...@sbcglobal.net wrote: On 05/02/2014 07:19 AM, Tom Cloyd wrote: Stuart, Update and status report - good news! - 1. I've installed Version: 4.3.0.0.alpha1 Build ID: 46cfcd5a05aa1d13fecd73f5a25b64b8d8dd6781. Did you by chance experience any dependency errors during your install? See: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7823 (Dependency errors with LibreOfficeDev_4.3.0.0.alpha1_Linux_x86-64_deb install) -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org mailto:users%2bunsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- ~~~ Tom Cloyd, MS MA (LMHC, WA State) Cedar City / St. George, UT, U.S.A: (435) 272-3332 * t...@tomcloyd.com (email) TomCloyd.com (website) * Sleight of Mind blog: Sleightmind.com (mental health issues) * Founder: Google+ Trauma and Dissociation Education and Advocacy community ~~~ -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: crash - crash - crash - crash. !@#$#@!
Tom - On 05/04/2014 05:34 AM, Tom Davies wrote: Hi Tom :) Good answers to Urmas there. Considerate, understanding and light-hearted. Nicely done! :) I was allowing for the possibility that he wasn't serious. Turns out not to be true. I've almost never found 'professional' proprietary stuff to be any better than OpenSource. My experience exactly. Indeed a new study by an independant security company found that OpenSource had slightly less errors per 1,000 lines of code. There is also the usual faster response time to fixing issues due to even mere normal users being able to report issues quickly and fairly easily and perhaps even getting involved in solving the problem and discovering coding skills. *Faster response time:* Yes. I've been running the latest alpha build. My vector M nonsense problem is gone. But there was a problem with row sorting crashing the program. I just installed the very latest Master, on the advice of the dev replying to my bug report. Now THAT problem appears to be gone. This is all very cool. *Getting involved: *Yes, also.**I'm learning the bug reporting interface and protocol, in the process. Is easy enough. Looks like I've found a way I can contribute, with my very limited time. That, too, is very cool. Now we just need to get right of the Urmas bullying bug and we'll be all set. I'll be watching that one especially closely. t. Regards from Tom :) On 4 May 2014 00:39, Tom Cloyd tomcloydm...@gmail.com mailto:tomcloydm...@gmail.com wrote: No I didn't. It went fine. I've been using it all day. Some problems have arisen, but I'm working through them and trying to find the pattern so I can report them usefully. t. On Sat, May 3, 2014 at 5:08 PM, NoOp gl...@sbcglobal.net mailto:gl...@sbcglobal.net mailto:gl...@sbcglobal.net mailto:gl...@sbcglobal.net wrote: On 05/02/2014 07:19 AM, Tom Cloyd wrote: Stuart, Update and status report - good news! - 1. I've installed Version: 4.3.0.0.alpha1 Build ID: 46cfcd5a05aa1d13fecd73f5a25b64b8d8dd6781. Did you by chance experience any dependency errors during your install? See: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7823 (Dependency errors with LibreOfficeDev_4.3.0.0.alpha1_Linux_x86-64_deb install) -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org mailto:users%2bunsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org mailto:users%2bunsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org mailto:users%252bunsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org mailto:users%2bunsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- ~~~ Tom Cloyd, MS MA (LMHC, WA State) Cedar City / St. George, UT, U.S.A: (435) 272-3332 * t...@tomcloyd.com (email) TomCloyd.com (website) * Sleight of Mind blog: Sleightmind.com (mental health issues) * Founder: Google+ Trauma and Dissociation Education and Advocacy community ~~~ -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: crash - crash - crash - crash. !@#$#@!
Hi Tom :) Good answers to Urmas there. Considerate, understanding and light-hearted. Nicely done! :) I've almost never found 'professional' proprietary stuff to be any better than OpenSource. Indeed a new study by an independant security company found that OpenSource had slightly less errors per 1,000 lines of code. There is also the usual faster response time to fixing issues due to even mere normal users being able to report issues quickly and fairly easily and perhaps even getting involved in solving the problem and discovering coding skills. Regards from Tom :) On 4 May 2014 00:39, Tom Cloyd tomcloydm...@gmail.com wrote: No I didn't. It went fine. I've been using it all day. Some problems have arisen, but I'm working through them and trying to find the pattern so I can report them usefully. t. On Sat, May 3, 2014 at 5:08 PM, NoOp gl...@sbcglobal.net mailto: gl...@sbcglobal.net wrote: On 05/02/2014 07:19 AM, Tom Cloyd wrote: Stuart, Update and status report - good news! - 1. I've installed Version: 4.3.0.0.alpha1 Build ID: 46cfcd5a05aa1d13fecd73f5a25b64b8d8dd6781. Did you by chance experience any dependency errors during your install? See: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7823 (Dependency errors with LibreOfficeDev_4.3.0.0.alpha1_Linux_x86-64_deb install) -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org mailto:users%2bunsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to- unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: Request for review: (Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: crash - crash - crash - crash. !@#$#@!)
+1 Virgil There is no worse contempt that not to do appreciation. Miguel Ángel -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/crash-crash-crash-crash-tp4106932p4107580.html Sent from the Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: crash - crash - crash - crash. !@#$#@!
Stuart, Using Version: 4.3.0.0.alpha1 Build ID: 46cfcd5a05aa1d13fecd73f5a25b64b8d8dd6781 on Kubuntu 4.04. In about 20 hours of fairly intense use I've had exactly one vector::_M_range_check, and I was unable to replicate it. I'll keep watching. This is the most solid, stable version I've worked with for many weeks, if not months. A real pleasure. There a few remaining issue, but not show-stoppers and I'll be working to file a bug report on those as soon as I can reliably reproduce them. One I expect to be able to do this with fairly easy. Looks like Kohei Yoshida has done some excellent work. I have subscribed to the CC list for fdo#76607, which appears to be the problem that's been causing me such grief. Onward! Tom C. On 05/02/2014 04:28 PM, V Stuart Foote wrote: Tom, When you get a chance, could you load up a newer nightly build of master, e.g. of the 4.3.0.0alpha1+ build. Found here-- http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/master/ Kohei Yoshida, one of the lead devs on the calc spreadsheet component, made a range of commits on 24 April (the 4.3.0.0alpha1 was wrapped up 20 April so not included yet for it) against bugs fdo#76607 https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=76607 and fdo#72741 https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=72741 . I kind of suspect that your remaining issue may already have been corrected. If so, let us know and perhaps add your bugzilla user ID to the CC list for the issue. Stuart -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/crash-crash-crash-crash-tp4106932p4107376.html Sent from the Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- ~~~ Tom Cloyd, MS MA (LMHC, WA State) Cedar City / St. George, UT, U.S.A: (435) 272-3332 * t...@tomcloyd.com (email) TomCloyd.com (website) * Sleight of Mind blog: Sleightmind.com (mental health issues) * Founder: Google+ Trauma and Dissociation Education and Advocacy community ~~~ -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Request for review: (Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: crash - crash - crash - crash. !@#$#@!)
Re: status of forum participant Urmas - I've examined the past 3 months' posts by this individual - approximately 25% of them are slams of LO software or insults to some individual participating in this forum. Why is this tolerated? Do we not have elementary behavioral guidelines here? Shouldn't we have? If a forum participant behaves here as if they were lost in some pre-adolescent level of maturity, I think they are not ready to be here. This is not a playground for bullies or want-to-be sociopaths. I urge that this individual be suspended from participation in this forum for at least a week. If there's another infraction, then make it a month. Tom C. On 05/03/2014 09:48 AM, Urmas wrote: To: Urmas ; LibreOffice User's Help Forum Don't reply to my E-mail address, you fucking idiot. -- ~~~ Tom Cloyd, MS MA (LMHC, WA State) Cedar City / St. George, UT, U.S.A: (435) 272-3332 * t...@tomcloyd.com (email) TomCloyd.com (website) * Sleight of Mind blog: Sleightmind.com (mental health issues) * Founder: Google+ Trauma and Dissociation Education and Advocacy community ~~~ -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: Request for review: (Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: crash - crash - crash - crash. !@#$#@!)
Hi Tom, Urmas was put to forced moderation only recently. We are under strict orders to let only those posts through, that do not insult anyone on the list. Even though we don't let everything through to the list from him, he still can send out emails directly to the people in question. I don't think that there is much use in banning him from the mailing lists itself, since he could just register a new email address and re-subscribe with this new address. But rest assured, we're trying very hard to keep this list a reasonable family-friendly place where we show respect for the other members. Sigrid -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: Request for review: (Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: crash - crash - crash - crash. !@#$#@!)
Sigrid, I thank you for your attention to this matter. Since his behavior appears to be to send aggressively worded, intimidating messages to forum members which only they see, I STRONGLY URGE anyone receiving such messages to report them publicly to the forum. That way, the privacy which allows such behavior to continue is completely subverted. Helpful, constructive posts are surely welcome here. Intimidating, personally aggressive ones absolutely are not. That is my position, and I doubt that anyone will have much objection to it. Now, just follow through with the suggested response I've outlined, and this behavior should cease. Sigrid, thanks again for your speedy response. Tom C. On 05/03/2014 04:31 PM, Sigrid Carrera wrote: Hi Tom, Urmas was put to forced moderation only recently. We are under strict orders to let only those posts through, that do not insult anyone on the list. Even though we don't let everything through to the list from him, he still can send out emails directly to the people in question. I don't think that there is much use in banning him from the mailing lists itself, since he could just register a new email address and re-subscribe with this new address. But rest assured, we're trying very hard to keep this list a reasonable family-friendly place where we show respect for the other members. Sigrid -- ~~~ Tom Cloyd, MS MA (LMHC, WA State) Cedar City / St. George, UT, U.S.A: (435) 272-3332 * t...@tomcloyd.com (email) TomCloyd.com (website) * Sleight of Mind blog: Sleightmind.com (mental health issues) * Founder: Google+ Trauma and Dissociation Education and Advocacy community ~~~ -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: crash - crash - crash - crash. !@#$#@!
On 05/02/2014 07:19 AM, Tom Cloyd wrote: Stuart, Update and status report - good news! - 1. I've installed Version: 4.3.0.0.alpha1 Build ID: 46cfcd5a05aa1d13fecd73f5a25b64b8d8dd6781. Did you by chance experience any dependency errors during your install? See: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7823 (Dependency errors with LibreOfficeDev_4.3.0.0.alpha1_Linux_x86-64_deb install) -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: crash - crash - crash - crash. !@#$#@!
Thanks. Please remember to reply to the list so that others can benefit from your response. On 05/03/2014 04:14 PM, Tom Cloyd wrote: No I didn't. It went fine. I've been using it all day. Some problems have arisen, but I'm working through them and trying to find the pattern so I can report them usefully. On Sat, May 3, 2014 at 5:08 PM, NoOp gl...@sbcglobal.net wrote: On 05/02/2014 07:19 AM, Tom Cloyd wrote: Stuart, Update and status report - good news! - 1. I've installed Version: 4.3.0.0.alpha1 Build ID: 46cfcd5a05aa1d13fecd73f5a25b64b8d8dd6781. Did you by chance experience any dependency errors during your install? See: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7823 (Dependency errors with LibreOfficeDev_4.3.0.0.alpha1_Linux_x86-64_deb install) -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: Request for review: (Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: crash - crash - crash - crash. !@#$#@!)
I rest my case. Again: if anyone receives privately anything remotely like this, I suggest you share it with the list. This problem should concern us all, I think. Tom C. On 05/03/2014 07:25 PM, Urmas wrote: You piece of fucking idiot, who gave you the permission to publish my messages to you? Then again, STOP adding me to the To section. Am I clear enough this time, idiot? -- ~~~ Tom Cloyd, MS MA (LMHC, WA State) Cedar City / St. George, UT, U.S.A: (435) 272-3332 * t...@tomcloyd.com (email) TomCloyd.com (website) * Sleight of Mind blog: Sleightmind.com (mental health issues) * Founder: Google+ Trauma and Dissociation Education and Advocacy community ~~~ -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: crash - crash - crash - crash. !@#$#@!
No I didn't. It went fine. I've been using it all day. Some problems have arisen, but I'm working through them and trying to find the pattern so I can report them usefully. t. On Sat, May 3, 2014 at 5:08 PM, NoOp gl...@sbcglobal.net mailto:gl...@sbcglobal.net wrote: On 05/02/2014 07:19 AM, Tom Cloyd wrote: Stuart, Update and status report - good news! - 1. I've installed Version: 4.3.0.0.alpha1 Build ID: 46cfcd5a05aa1d13fecd73f5a25b64b8d8dd6781. Did you by chance experience any dependency errors during your install? See: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7823 (Dependency errors with LibreOfficeDev_4.3.0.0.alpha1_Linux_x86-64_deb install) -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org mailto:users%2bunsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: crash - crash - crash - crash. !@#$#@!
Le 02/05/2014 05:51, V Stuart Foote a écrit : Tom, Believe you REALLY should get off of the 4.2.x branch and move onto the 4.3 now in alpha. Devs have really put a lot of effort into exactly these issues for the 4.3 release. First 4.3 alpha pre-release is here: http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/pre-releases/win/x86/ This bugs are fixed in 4.2 branch too. You can find Windows daily builds for 4.2 branch here : http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/libreoffice-4-2/Win-x86@42/ Best regards JBF -- Seuls des formats ouverts peuvent assurer la pérennité de vos documents. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: crash - crash - crash - crash. !@#$#@!
Hi :) Errr, the numbers beyond the 3rd digit don't mean much to most of us here. We do have a few devs here who might notice but it's probably beyond most of us. Splitting off individual worksheets sounds like a great idea. Hopefully none of the sheets do calculations based on figures calculated in other worksheets do they? It's unlikely [crosses fingers behind back] but it does happen sometimes. Each tab at the bottom is a separate worksheet but i guess you know that already. You can probably save individual tabs/worksheets as .csv files so that you can work on them using simple text-editors but csv is so non-standardised that in can be a nightmare trying to export to .csv in such a way that makes it easy to open as a normal spreadsheet afterwards. I guess the key point is whether the spreadsheets are 'just' holding data or whether they are doing tons of calculations. Stuart and Jean-Baptiste know a lot more about what is fixed in each version. I gave broad-brush-strokes but they know the detail. So, scratch my idea about going back to the 4.1.6. It might suit most cases but clearly not yours. Regards from Tom :) On 2 May 2014 09:44, Jean-Baptiste Faure jbf.fa...@sud-ouest.org wrote: Le 02/05/2014 05:51, V Stuart Foote a écrit : Tom, Believe you REALLY should get off of the 4.2.x branch and move onto the 4.3 now in alpha. Devs have really put a lot of effort into exactly these issues for the 4.3 release. First 4.3 alpha pre-release is here: http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/pre-releases/win/x86/ This bugs are fixed in 4.2 branch too. You can find Windows daily builds for 4.2 branch here : http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/libreoffice-4-2/Win-x86@42/ Best regards JBF -- Seuls des formats ouverts peuvent assurer la pérennité de vos documents. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: crash - crash - crash - crash. !@#$#@!
Stuart, Update and status report - good news! - 1. I've installed Version: 4.3.0.0.alpha1 Build ID: 46cfcd5a05aa1d13fecd73f5a25b64b8d8dd6781. It's at least as solid as ver. 4.1.6.2 was for me. I'm still having vector::_M_range_check crashes - but only in one particular situation. As long as all my work is in one sheet - no errors at all. What a relief! But moving data to another sheet crashes it under a very specific situation. I'm working on a replication dataset so I can file a bug and maybe see this problem removed completely while it's still an alpha. That would be fantastic. I'd also be actually contributing a little to development, and I'd love to do that. So, all the work that's gone into this new version has sure paid off for ME, and I'm very grateful. 2. I installed 4.3.0.0 in parallel with 4.1.6.2, in case I had to revert to that, but right now - about 25 minutes into it I don't see that happening. Better to go forward, I think. My experiences can then help to improve the code, maybe. 3. I installed GNUmeric. Gck! Not good. It was incredibly slow. To insert a single new row in one sheet took about 50 seconds. More complicated things took even longer. It wouldn't copy formatting, and I could NOT find a format painter, which I simply must have. A total no-go for me. But, worth a look. So, as of now, I'm back in business and moving forward, and that's a much better place than I was yesterday - all of which was devoted to trying to resolve this problem. Thanks for your help for pushing me into 4.3. I had to study up on a few things, but the LO wiki material was extremely helpful and clear, and it solved all problems that came up. Onward! Tom On 05/01/2014 09:51 PM, V Stuart Foote wrote: Tom, Believe you REALLY should get off of the 4.2.x branch and move onto the 4.3 now in alpha. Devs have really put a lot of effort into exactly these issues for the 4.3 release. First 4.3 alpha pre-release is here: http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/pre-releases/win/x86/ or perhaps work with the nightly builds of master (4.3.0.0alpha1+) from here: http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/master/ you'll very quickly identify if your work flow is going to ever be supported. Try them first in a parallel install, and perhaps side-by-side with GNUmeric. Stuart -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/crash-crash-crash-crash-tp4106932p4107218.html Sent from the Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- ~~~ Tom Cloyd, MS MA (LMHC, WA State) Cedar City / St. George, UT, U.S.A: (435) 272-3332 * t...@tomcloyd.com (email) TomCloyd.com (website) * Sleight of Mind blog: Sleightmind.com (mental health issues) * Founder: Google+ Trauma and Dissociation Education and Advocacy community ~~~ -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: crash - crash - crash - crash. !@#$#@!
Tom, Thanks for your thoughts, as always. I'm copying individual sheets into new blank spreadsheets, not .csv files, which would accomplish nothing. And, yes, they ARE doing tons of calculations. That appears to be the problem - maybe. Alternatively, it appears that moving things around get the program pretty confused pretty quickly. See my next post, to Stuart, for an updated status report - good news. t. On 05/02/2014 04:05 AM, Tom Davies wrote: Hi :) Errr, the numbers beyond the 3rd digit don't mean much to most of us here. We do have a few devs here who might notice but it's probably beyond most of us. Splitting off individual worksheets sounds like a great idea. Hopefully none of the sheets do calculations based on figures calculated in other worksheets do they? It's unlikely [crosses fingers behind back] but it does happen sometimes. Each tab at the bottom is a separate worksheet but i guess you know that already. You can probably save individual tabs/worksheets as .csv files so that you can work on them using simple text-editors but csv is so non-standardised that in can be a nightmare trying to export to .csv in such a way that makes it easy to open as a normal spreadsheet afterwards. I guess the key point is whether the spreadsheets are 'just' holding data or whether they are doing tons of calculations. Stuart and Jean-Baptiste know a lot more about what is fixed in each version. I gave broad-brush-strokes but they know the detail. So, scratch my idea about going back to the 4.1.6. It might suit most cases but clearly not yours. Regards from Tom :) On 2 May 2014 09:44, Jean-Baptiste Faure jbf.fa...@sud-ouest.org wrote: Le 02/05/2014 05:51, V Stuart Foote a écrit : Tom, Believe you REALLY should get off of the 4.2.x branch and move onto the 4.3 now in alpha. Devs have really put a lot of effort into exactly these issues for the 4.3 release. First 4.3 alpha pre-release is here: http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/pre-releases/win/x86/ This bugs are fixed in 4.2 branch too. You can find Windows daily builds for 4.2 branch here : http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/libreoffice-4-2/Win-x86@42/ Best regards JBF -- Seuls des formats ouverts peuvent assurer la pérennité de vos documents. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- ~~~ Tom Cloyd, MS MA (LMHC, WA State) Cedar City / St. George, UT, U.S.A: (435) 272-3332 * t...@tomcloyd.com (email) TomCloyd.com (website) * Sleight of Mind blog: Sleightmind.com (mental health issues) * Founder: Google+ Trauma and Dissociation Education and Advocacy community ~~~ -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: crash - crash - crash - crash. !@#$#@!
Stuart, I'd love to. I just explored around with the link you gave. I run Kubuntu Linux, and the link was to windows releases, but it wasn't hard to find a deb version. I shouldn't have been put off by that /win/ link! I'll load that up and see what I can do. It could hardly be much worse than what I'm experiencing now. That's for tomorrow morning, though. I've been working on this and related issues all day, and I done it. Will let you know what happens. I'm hopeful! I could go the GNUmeric, but I'd like to say with calc. Like you idea of parallel with GNUmeric, though. Will probably try that. THANKS. t. On 05/01/2014 09:51 PM, V Stuart Foote wrote: Tom, Believe you REALLY should get off of the 4.2.x branch and move onto the 4.3 now in alpha. Devs have really put a lot of effort into exactly these issues for the 4.3 release. First 4.3 alpha pre-release is here: http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/pre-releases/win/x86/ or perhaps work with the nightly builds of master (4.3.0.0alpha1+) from here: http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/master/ you'll very quickly identify if your work flow is going to ever be supported. Try them first in a parallel install, and perhaps side-by-side with GNUmeric. Stuart -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/crash-crash-crash-crash-tp4106932p4107218.html Sent from the Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- ~~~ Tom Cloyd, MS MA (LMHC, WA State) Cedar City / St. George, UT, U.S.A: (435) 272-3332 * t...@tomcloyd.com (email) TomCloyd.com (website) * Sleight of Mind blog: Sleightmind.com (mental health issues) * Founder: Google+ Trauma and Dissociation Education and Advocacy community ~~~ -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
RE: [libreoffice-users] Re: crash - crash - crash - crash. !@#$#@!
Tom, Glad you are making progress. Now, if we can impose a bit on you ;-) It would be very helpful if you can now more completely characterize the remaining issue into a formal issue report on our Bugzilla tracker (as hosted by FreeDesktop.org but early in a migration to our own). https://bugs.freedesktop.org/index.cgi where you'd Open a New Account Then, you can File a Bug from there against LibreOffice, selecting component of Spreadsheet, and setting version of 4.3.0.0.alpha1 Or alternatively, use the Bugzilla Submission Assistant as an alternative -- https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/bug/ -- with the Bugzilla log-in just created. All very simple, but the work/pain needed would be that attached to the new bug we'd need you to put a sanitized version of the problem spreadsheet that still produces the crash. And also include the specific steps you perform that are resulting in the vector::_M_range_check crashes. The better the description of steps to reproduce with the sample document, the more likely one of the devs will be able to pin down the specific cause of the crash. And, since you are on Linux, you might also attach a backtrace and strace of the crash--details for that are here: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/BugReport/Debug_Information#GNU.2FLinux I know it will be a bit of work for you to get it submitted, but it is worth the hassle as it may lead to complete support for your work flows. Post back with your Bugzilla issue ID once you get it filed. Stuart -Original Message- From: Tom Cloyd [mailto:tomcloydm...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, May 02, 2014 9:20 AM To: V Stuart Foote; LibreOffice User's Help Forum Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: crash - crash - crash - crash. !@#$#@! Stuart, Update and status report - good news! - 1. I've installed Version: 4.3.0.0.alpha1 Build ID: 46cfcd5a05aa1d13fecd73f5a25b64b8d8dd6781. It's at least as solid as ver. 4.1.6.2 was for me. I'm still having vector::_M_range_check crashes - but only in one particular situation. As long as all my work is in one sheet - no errors at all. What a relief! But moving data to another sheet crashes it under a very specific situation. I'm working on a replication dataset so I can file a bug and maybe see this problem removed completely while it's still an alpha. That would be fantastic. I'd also be actually contributing a little to development, and I'd love to do that. So, all the work that's gone into this new version has sure paid off for ME, and I'm very grateful. 2. I installed 4.3.0.0 in parallel with 4.1.6.2, in case I had to revert to that, but right now - about 25 minutes into it I don't see that happening. Better to go forward, I think. My experiences can then help to improve the code, maybe. 3. I installed GNUmeric. Gck! Not good. It was incredibly slow. To insert a single new row in one sheet took about 50 seconds. More complicated things took even longer. It wouldn't copy formatting, and I could NOT find a format painter, which I simply must have. A total no-go for me. But, worth a look. So, as of now, I'm back in business and moving forward, and that's a much better place than I was yesterday - all of which was devoted to trying to resolve this problem. Thanks for your help for pushing me into 4.3. I had to study up on a few things, but the LO wiki material was extremely helpful and clear, and it solved all problems that came up. Onward! Tom -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: crash - crash - crash - crash. !@#$#@!
Tom, When you get a chance, could you load up a newer nightly build of master, e.g. of the 4.3.0.0alpha1+ build. Found here-- http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/master/ Kohei Yoshida, one of the lead devs on the calc spreadsheet component, made a range of commits on 24 April (the 4.3.0.0alpha1 was wrapped up 20 April so not included yet for it) against bugs fdo#76607 https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=76607 and fdo#72741 https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=72741 . I kind of suspect that your remaining issue may already have been corrected. If so, let us know and perhaps add your bugzilla user ID to the CC list for the issue. Stuart -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/crash-crash-crash-crash-tp4106932p4107376.html Sent from the Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: crash - crash - crash - crash. !@#$#@!
Tom Cloyd: Since the last major update (ver. 4.2.1?), my day begins with a serious of crashes - only after I save both sheets (separately, of course) 6-12 times, each time after some small operation, do they get stable. You are supposed to use commercial software to do serious work. It is rather strange to complain about something made just-for-fun and given you for free. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: crash - crash - crash - crash. !@#$#@!
Urmas - I am supposed to - WHAT? You in da wrong place man. You one lost dude. I cannot recall the last time I did what I was supposed to do. That's simply alien thought. I do what I want to do. Period, which is why I'm here. I will mercifully assume you are exercising your capacity for dry wit. I do that sometimes, and get myself into some interesting pickles. But just for those few who might think you could be serious: Libre - that means 'free to do what you choose'. Free TO choose. Free to complain, to work on solutions, to contribute what you can. Free to acquire a sense of ownership. Free to offer funding, when you can. Free to participate, and learn, and promote the best damned software you ever used to all who will listen you. Man, that sure does NOT describe the relationship I had with Microsoft, Intuit, Apache, and a host of other folks who were giving me da bidness for years, by figuring out new and devious ways to build walled gardens and to force me to pay them every year for newly scrambled interfaces and file formats, and wretched documentation, etc. A quick trip down memory lane: * Internet Explorer 6 - featuring the box model from hell. Torturing web designers for well over a decade, with never even the suggestion of a fix - they didn't flippin' care. * Intuit Quicken - featuring mandatory updates, at a price, every year. You get to subscribe whether you want to or not. * Windows XP - the worst single piece of crap I even loaded onto my computer. It got better after about a decade of updates - 5 years after I stopped using it forever. Does opensource software it always work. Hell no. But then neither do I, so I can only say so much about that. What it DOES do is offer me relentless improvement; the joy of an active, supportive community; documentation that is very often the best I've ever seen; and contact with folks I truly believe are the most dedicated and creative programmers I've ever seen. ...made just for fun... Yeah. Serious fun. The kind that is indistinguishable from the most meaningful work you can imagine. The kind that's a gift to the world. The kind of fun to which my life is dedicated. Before I was a psychotherapist, I was a cultural anthropologist. Let me tell you a little about leadership in primitive society: Very often, leaders are poor. They give away what they have for the benefit of the people, which is why they get such respect, and become leaders. I am very happy, in the software world in which I participate, to be in the company of such leaders. Because I am libre, I choose to be here. I would not choose to be anywhere else. You could not pay me to be anywhere else. Tom On 05/02/2014 05:44 PM, Urmas wrote: Tom Cloyd: Since the last major update (ver. 4.2.1?), my day begins with a serious of crashes - only after I save both sheets (separately, of course) 6-12 times, each time after some small operation, do they get stable. You are supposed to use commercial software to do serious work. It is rather strange to complain about something made just-for-fun and given you for free. -- ~~~ Tom Cloyd, MS MA (LMHC, WA State) Cedar City / St. George, UT, U.S.A: (435) 272-3332 * t...@tomcloyd.com (email) TomCloyd.com (website) * Sleight of Mind blog: Sleightmind.com (mental health issues) * Founder: Google+ Trauma and Dissociation Education and Advocacy community ~~~ -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: crash - crash - crash - crash. !@#$#@!
Tom, Believe you REALLY should get off of the 4.2.x branch and move onto the 4.3 now in alpha. Devs have really put a lot of effort into exactly these issues for the 4.3 release. First 4.3 alpha pre-release is here: http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/pre-releases/win/x86/ or perhaps work with the nightly builds of master (4.3.0.0alpha1+) from here: http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/master/ you'll very quickly identify if your work flow is going to ever be supported. Try them first in a parallel install, and perhaps side-by-side with GNUmeric. Stuart -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/crash-crash-crash-crash-tp4106932p4107218.html Sent from the Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: crash - crash - crash - crash. !@#$#@!
Tom, Tom Cloyd wrote Everyday, I organize my life around two large LO spreadsheets. I'm running ver. 4.2.1.1. Since the last major update (ver. 4.2.1?), my day begins with a serious of crashes - only after I save both sheets (separately, of course) 6-12 times, each time after some small operation, do they get stable. Usually. Mostly. Except when they aren't. I'm doing wild, exotic things like moving rows around, and inserting rows, or filling in columns with data copied from other columns. Not sure your work flow is going to be stable on any spread sheet program--too many moving parts. But if ALL you are interested in is a solid Spreadsheet, perhaps have a look at an alternative. Gnumeric comes to mind--http://www.gnumeric.org/ Otherwise, the mature LibreOffice 4.1.6 is very stable (but at the end of its development life). I'm SO ready for the next version. Anyone have a clue when it's due to land? The 4.2.4 fresh build is just rolling out now. But my suggestion would be to test the calc component for 4.3.0 where there has been very substantive refactoring work to improve its function and stability. It is available now in its initial alpha build--personally I'd give that a go--it is here: http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/pre-releases/win/x86/ Stuart -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/crash-crash-crash-crash-tp4106932p4106936.html Sent from the Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: crash - crash - crash - crash. !@#$#@!
Tom, I should have added a note regards option of doing a parallel installation so you can test the versions side-by-side to identify the best stability for your work flow. See this Wiki page: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Installing_in_parallel Regards, Stuart -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/crash-crash-crash-crash-tp4106932p4106937.html Sent from the Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
