Re: [libreoffice-users] Printing with HP 960C Deskjet
Hi :) Errr, sorry about my little outburst earlier. C410 looks like it might be an even earlier model than the 960C. However the 960C is specifically listed on Hewlett Packard page of printers that have recently had support withdrawn, at least withdrawn from newer versions of OS X http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?docname=c01856359cc=ukdlc=enlc=enproduct=77146tmp_track_link=ot_search with the extra note Installing older HP drivers and software on a Mac running these operating systems might create conflicts. A lot of times i find that sort of warning is wrong and that ignoring it worked fine for me. On the other hand ignoring such things has also left me with horribly broken systems that have taken a lot of time and resources to fix. I never know whether to risk it or not. Hmmm, another approach that is a lot more feasible in GnuLinux and probably Mac too is to install a Virtual Machine, such as Oracle's Virtualbox (which is actually quite good despite being Oracle's) and then install some other OS on there. I tend to go for something really light-weight that only just does the 1 task i need it for. For me that's often SliTaz but i don't know how good it is for printers. I usually just need a disk partitioner, a file-browser and text-editor and a web-browser. Alternatively a dual-boot into another system but 1. i think that's quite tough to set-up on Macs 2. it means rebooting every time you want to, in this case print, so i would tend to save all my printing and then do it all in one big batch. I tried looking up date of manufacture but am in a bit of a rush for a meeting i don't want to go to. Regards from Tom :) From: Steve Edmonds steve.edmo...@ptglobal.com To: Tom Davies tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk Cc: Kracked_P_P---webmaster webmas...@krackedpress.com; users@global.libreoffice.org users@global.libreoffice.org Sent: Thursday, 18 July 2013, 23:07 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Printing with HP 960C Deskjet Hi. I have LO 4.1 dev build on a macbook pro 10.6.8 (I think) and can print duplex to a Brother 2040D and an HP C410. Steve On 2013-07-19 05:37, Tom Davies wrote: Hi :) Upgrading LO to 4.0.x sounds like a good plan, as does File - Export to Pdf and then print the Pdf through whatever you view Pdfs with. Errr i only had a go on 1 Macbook once and i wasn't able to fully explore it. it was quite a big deal for me as it's been about a decade since i last used a Mac. I have seen quite a few people on these mailing lists deal with Mac issues and documentation is pretty good at providing a conversion table to deal with a couple of issues. So i listen to other people and copypaste parts of their previous answers if it seems appropriate. These lists are great for learning tons of useful stuff or just increasing understanding general understanding. As Tim said Mac is kinda a brother or sister of GnuLinux so advice based on one might help with the other but there are some odd differences between the platforms. The main problem seemed to be that because the drivers were built-in to OS X 10.5 it's very difficult to get hold of a package that is just the driver or installer. However, i think the op has found 3 drivers that are almost right but just not quite there. Perhaps upgrading LO might help them. Regards from Tom :) From: Kracked_P_P---webmaster webmas...@krackedpress.com To: users@global.libreoffice.org Sent: Wednesday, 17 July 2013, 5:03 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Printing with HP 960C Deskjet For now, as a big work around. . . Do you have luck printing a PDF file to the HP 960? If so, then just export to PDF and print that file. That will work till we get the direct printing from LO issue fixed. For the longest time, that was what I did to print a duplex document on the Epson printer. Do you have the ability to use the OSX 10.5 driver? Or the more generic 10.1.5 to 10.4.x driver? HP has those drivers on their web site for download. I am not a Mac person, but since it is sort of a Linux-like OS [do not tell me how it is not a Linux OS, since I am using a generic comparison] then there must be a way to install this older driver and use it. I know that for Linux and Windows, drivers for earlier version of the OS can work, most times, when there is no newer version for the newer OS. I have used 10.04 and 11.x drivers for my Ubuntu system when there has not been one made for my 12.04 version of the OS. Actually I have done that with several packages. So I am hoping that the 10.5.x driver would work on a 10.7 OSX, since there is none listed for 10.6 or 10.7. Also, LO 3.4.1 may not be the best version for your needs. I had a lot of trouble with dialogs and duplex printing till the 3.6.x line. I use 4.0.4.2 on a Linux system at this time. So it is possible for you to download and install
Re: [libreoffice-users] Printing with HP 960C Deskjet
Hi :) Yes, duplexing and other features do work on some other printers. The problem is that we can't always be certain of what will and what wont work. As Virgil often grumbles it seems organisations like to change things around just to break things. In this case the HP 960C Deskjet was working fine in OS X 10.5 but now doesn't work so well with 10.7. rant On the one side we have manufacturers that want you to pay money for their newer models, preferably directly from them. Supplies would then only need to stock the newer inks and toners. Fersh faced kids out of college would only have to know how to support/use newer stuff. On the other side we have Operating Systems that don't want to be too bloated and don't want to have bitsbobs floating around to support things that hardly anyone is using any more. It's not really a conspiracy as such, it's just that it's in 'everyone's' best interest to keep on buying into the constant upgrade cycle. Everyone except the consumers and environmentalists and athsemtic kids but who cares about them. We have to spend more to make the economy recover don't we?! /rant [hopefully] side issue In GnuLinux land it is supposedly possible to 'just' find the appropriate old kernel module and do something to it and then kinda graft it on to a newer system. I have no idea if that is even possible for Macs. It's a proprietary system and i don't think they like the idea of people diving into the code. Even on GnuLinux i have no idea how to actually do that sort of thing anyway. I was hoping that someone might have a much easier fix! ;) /side issue It is good to know that duplexing does work before FUD starts being generated about this sort of thing. Regards from Tom :) From: Steve Edmonds steve.edmo...@ptglobal.com To: Tom Davies tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk Cc: Kracked_P_P---webmaster webmas...@krackedpress.com; users@global.libreoffice.org users@global.libreoffice.org Sent: Thursday, 18 July 2013, 23:07 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Printing with HP 960C Deskjet Hi. I have LO 4.1 dev build on a macbook pro 10.6.8 (I think) and can print duplex to a Brother 2040D and an HP C410. Steve On 2013-07-19 05:37, Tom Davies wrote: Hi :) Upgrading LO to 4.0.x sounds like a good plan, as does File - Export to Pdf and then print the Pdf through whatever you view Pdfs with. Errr i only had a go on 1 Macbook once and i wasn't able to fully explore it. it was quite a big deal for me as it's been about a decade since i last used a Mac. I have seen quite a few people on these mailing lists deal with Mac issues and documentation is pretty good at providing a conversion table to deal with a couple of issues. So i listen to other people and copypaste parts of their previous answers if it seems appropriate. These lists are great for learning tons of useful stuff or just increasing understanding general understanding. As Tim said Mac is kinda a brother or sister of GnuLinux so advice based on one might help with the other but there are some odd differences between the platforms. The main problem seemed to be that because the drivers were built-in to OS X 10.5 it's very difficult to get hold of a package that is just the driver or installer. However, i think the op has found 3 drivers that are almost right but just not quite there. Perhaps upgrading LO might help them. Regards from Tom :) From: Kracked_P_P---webmaster webmas...@krackedpress.com To: users@global.libreoffice.org Sent: Wednesday, 17 July 2013, 5:03 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Printing with HP 960C Deskjet For now, as a big work around. . . Do you have luck printing a PDF file to the HP 960? If so, then just export to PDF and print that file. That will work till we get the direct printing from LO issue fixed. For the longest time, that was what I did to print a duplex document on the Epson printer. Do you have the ability to use the OSX 10.5 driver? Or the more generic 10.1.5 to 10.4.x driver? HP has those drivers on their web site for download. I am not a Mac person, but since it is sort of a Linux-like OS [do not tell me how it is not a Linux OS, since I am using a generic comparison] then there must be a way to install this older driver and use it. I know that for Linux and Windows, drivers for earlier version of the OS can work, most times, when there is no newer version for the newer OS. I have used 10.04 and 11.x drivers for my Ubuntu system when there has not been one made for my 12.04 version of the OS. Actually I have done that with several packages. So I am hoping that the 10.5.x driver would work on a 10.7 OSX, since there is none listed for 10.6 or 10.7. Also, LO 3.4.1 may not be the best version for your needs. I had a lot of trouble with dialogs and duplex printing till the 3.6.x line. I use 4.0.4.2 on a Linux
Re: [libreoffice-users] Printing with HP 960C Deskjet
Hi :) Upgrading LO to 4.0.x sounds like a good plan, as does File - Export to Pdf and then print the Pdf through whatever you view Pdfs with. Errr i only had a go on 1 Macbook once and i wasn't able to fully explore it. it was quite a big deal for me as it's been about a decade since i last used a Mac. I have seen quite a few people on these mailing lists deal with Mac issues and documentation is pretty good at providing a conversion table to deal with a couple of issues. So i listen to other people and copypaste parts of their previous answers if it seems appropriate. These lists are great for learning tons of useful stuff or just increasing understanding general understanding. As Tim said Mac is kinda a brother or sister of GnuLinux so advice based on one might help with the other but there are some odd differences between the platforms. The main problem seemed to be that because the drivers were built-in to OS X 10.5 it's very difficult to get hold of a package that is just the driver or installer. However, i think the op has found 3 drivers that are almost right but just not quite there. Perhaps upgrading LO might help them. Regards from Tom :) From: Kracked_P_P---webmaster webmas...@krackedpress.com To: users@global.libreoffice.org Sent: Wednesday, 17 July 2013, 5:03 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Printing with HP 960C Deskjet For now, as a big work around. . . Do you have luck printing a PDF file to the HP 960? If so, then just export to PDF and print that file. That will work till we get the direct printing from LO issue fixed. For the longest time, that was what I did to print a duplex document on the Epson printer. Do you have the ability to use the OSX 10.5 driver? Or the more generic 10.1.5 to 10.4.x driver? HP has those drivers on their web site for download. I am not a Mac person, but since it is sort of a Linux-like OS [do not tell me how it is not a Linux OS, since I am using a generic comparison] then there must be a way to install this older driver and use it. I know that for Linux and Windows, drivers for earlier version of the OS can work, most times, when there is no newer version for the newer OS. I have used 10.04 and 11.x drivers for my Ubuntu system when there has not been one made for my 12.04 version of the OS. Actually I have done that with several packages. So I am hoping that the 10.5.x driver would work on a 10.7 OSX, since there is none listed for 10.6 or 10.7. Also, LO 3.4.1 may not be the best version for your needs. I had a lot of trouble with dialogs and duplex printing till the 3.6.x line. I use 4.0.4.2 on a Linux system at this time. So it is possible for you to download and install the 3.6.6 version or the 4.0.4 version for OSX and see if some of your dialog issues are fixed. To get duplex working on all my duplexing printers [HP laser, Canon inkjet, and Epson inkjet] I had to check the use LO dialog option for the print dialogs. That was listed as an option for Linux but did not show up for the Windows version. So I would expect that the OSX version might have some different dialog options. Before I found that Linux only option, no one could figure out how to get my Epson printer to duplex when my HP laser would. Now I have a Canon inkjet and the check box option works with that duplexing printer as well. I know that Tom is a Linux person, but he has access to Mac systems, so he may know some OSX specific option, but I have used 3 duplexing printer and I know what works for me. On 07/16/2013 07:26 PM, Tom Davies wrote: Hi :) 2 approaches to fix this, i've not thought about which should be number 1 1. To use the LO dialogues ... When the printer dialogue-box pops-up note there are 4 tabs at the top. On the 1st tab you should see a list of all the printers installed. Select the Hp 960 but instead of printing click on the Properties button. It's just under the list. The Properties pop-up also has a couple of tabs. The 1st should be Paper. Duplex is about the 4h drop-down. Long-edge for Portrait but Short-edge for landscape. My boss can never figure out that short-edge refers to the shortest edge of the paper, or perhaps he is just being kind. 2. To change to normal dialogues ... LibreOffice - Preferences - General - Print dialogues - UNtick the tick-box that says Use LO dialogues. Errr, are you sure that duplex is installed? When you install the driver it should ask you if you want duplex to be included. It might do it automatically. Regards from Tom :) From: Cliff Scott c...@intergate.com To: users@global.libreoffice.org Sent: Tuesday, 16 July 2013, 22:29 Subject: [libreoffice-users] Printing with HP 960C Deskjet Fellow LibreOffice users - I am running LO on a Mac, OSx 10.7.5 and the printer is a HP 960C Deskjet. There are no native OSx drivers
Re: [libreoffice-users] Printing with HP 960C Deskjet
Hi. I have LO 4.1 dev build on a macbook pro 10.6.8 (I think) and can print duplex to a Brother 2040D and an HP C410. Steve On 2013-07-19 05:37, Tom Davies wrote: Hi :) Upgrading LO to 4.0.x sounds like a good plan, as does File - Export to Pdf and then print the Pdf through whatever you view Pdfs with. Errr i only had a go on 1 Macbook once and i wasn't able to fully explore it. it was quite a big deal for me as it's been about a decade since i last used a Mac. I have seen quite a few people on these mailing lists deal with Mac issues and documentation is pretty good at providing a conversion table to deal with a couple of issues. So i listen to other people and copypaste parts of their previous answers if it seems appropriate. These lists are great for learning tons of useful stuff or just increasing understanding general understanding. As Tim said Mac is kinda a brother or sister of GnuLinux so advice based on one might help with the other but there are some odd differences between the platforms. The main problem seemed to be that because the drivers were built-in to OS X 10.5 it's very difficult to get hold of a package that is just the driver or installer. However, i think the op has found 3 drivers that are almost right but just not quite there. Perhaps upgrading LO might help them. Regards from Tom :) From: Kracked_P_P---webmaster webmas...@krackedpress.com To: users@global.libreoffice.org Sent: Wednesday, 17 July 2013, 5:03 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Printing with HP 960C Deskjet For now, as a big work around. . . Do you have luck printing a PDF file to the HP 960? If so, then just export to PDF and print that file. That will work till we get the direct printing from LO issue fixed. For the longest time, that was what I did to print a duplex document on the Epson printer. Do you have the ability to use the OSX 10.5 driver? Or the more generic 10.1.5 to 10.4.x driver? HP has those drivers on their web site for download. I am not a Mac person, but since it is sort of a Linux-like OS [do not tell me how it is not a Linux OS, since I am using a generic comparison] then there must be a way to install this older driver and use it. I know that for Linux and Windows, drivers for earlier version of the OS can work, most times, when there is no newer version for the newer OS. I have used 10.04 and 11.x drivers for my Ubuntu system when there has not been one made for my 12.04 version of the OS. Actually I have done that with several packages. So I am hoping that the 10.5.x driver would work on a 10.7 OSX, since there is none listed for 10.6 or 10.7. Also, LO 3.4.1 may not be the best version for your needs. I had a lot of trouble with dialogs and duplex printing till the 3.6.x line. I use 4.0.4.2 on a Linux system at this time. So it is possible for you to download and install the 3.6.6 version or the 4.0.4 version for OSX and see if some of your dialog issues are fixed. To get duplex working on all my duplexing printers [HP laser, Canon inkjet, and Epson inkjet] I had to check the use LO dialog option for the print dialogs. That was listed as an option for Linux but did not show up for the Windows version. So I would expect that the OSX version might have some different dialog options. Before I found that Linux only option, no one could figure out how to get my Epson printer to duplex when my HP laser would. Now I have a Canon inkjet and the check box option works with that duplexing printer as well. I know that Tom is a Linux person, but he has access to Mac systems, so he may know some OSX specific option, but I have used 3 duplexing printer and I know what works for me. On 07/16/2013 07:26 PM, Tom Davies wrote: Hi :) 2 approaches to fix this, i've not thought about which should be number 1 1. To use the LO dialogues ... When the printer dialogue-box pops-up note there are 4 tabs at the top. On the 1st tab you should see a list of all the printers installed. Select the Hp 960 but instead of printing click on the Properties button. It's just under the list. The Properties pop-up also has a couple of tabs. The 1st should be Paper. Duplex is about the 4h drop-down. Long-edge for Portrait but Short-edge for landscape. My boss can never figure out that short-edge refers to the shortest edge of the paper, or perhaps he is just being kind. 2. To change to normal dialogues ... LibreOffice - Preferences - General - Print dialogues - UNtick the tick-box that says Use LO dialogues. Errr, are you sure that duplex is installed? When you install the driver it should ask you if you want duplex to be included. It might do it automatically. Regards from Tom :) From: Cliff Scott c...@intergate.com To: users@global.libreoffice.org Sent: Tuesday, 16 July 2013, 22:29 Subject: [libreoffice-users] Printing with HP 960C Deskjet Fellow LibreOffice users - I am running
Re: [libreoffice-users] Printing with HP 960C Deskjet
Hi :) 2 approaches to fix this, i've not thought about which should be number 1 1. To use the LO dialogues ... When the printer dialogue-box pops-up note there are 4 tabs at the top. On the 1st tab you should see a list of all the printers installed. Select the Hp 960 but instead of printing click on the Properties button. It's just under the list. The Properties pop-up also has a couple of tabs. The 1st should be Paper. Duplex is about the 4h drop-down. Long-edge for Portrait but Short-edge for landscape. My boss can never figure out that short-edge refers to the shortest edge of the paper, or perhaps he is just being kind. 2. To change to normal dialogues ... LibreOffice - Preferences - General - Print dialogues - UNtick the tick-box that says Use LO dialogues. Errr, are you sure that duplex is installed? When you install the driver it should ask you if you want duplex to be included. It might do it automatically. Regards from Tom :) From: Cliff Scott c...@intergate.com To: users@global.libreoffice.org Sent: Tuesday, 16 July 2013, 22:29 Subject: [libreoffice-users] Printing with HP 960C Deskjet Fellow LibreOffice users - I am running LO on a Mac, OSx 10.7.5 and the printer is a HP 960C Deskjet. There are no native OSx drivers for the 960C so I've loaded drivers from Guten Print, Hpijs and also an HP 9800. All three work fine with every OSx app including OpenOffice 3.4.1. In LO the print dialog does not use the normal OSx dialog that every other app uses, but has its own. That dialog does not allow me to select Dual sided printing or Print Quality other than Draft, among other missing, but not so important settings. Is there any way around this? Why does LO do its own thing and not use the normal dialogs? I have to have OpenOffice installed just to print properly. Very wasteful of time and resources. LO has fixed a number of things that are not fixed in OO so I'd much rather use LO all the way, except for this one issue. Thanks for any help. Cliff -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Printing with HP 960C Deskjet
Hi :) The Hp website says that no driver is needed for OS X 10.5. That is the closest i could get to a 10.7 http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?cc=usdlc=endocname=c01234224lc=en I had a look at a walk-through for the hplip driver and it didn't mention about duplexing so maybe i am just getting muddled with a windows installer for something else. Apols and regards from Tom :) From: Cliff Scott c...@intergate.com To: users@global.libreoffice.org Sent: Tuesday, 16 July 2013, 22:29 Subject: [libreoffice-users] Printing with HP 960C Deskjet Fellow LibreOffice users - I am running LO on a Mac, OSx 10.7.5 and the printer is a HP 960C Deskjet. There are no native OSx drivers for the 960C so I've loaded drivers from Guten Print, Hpijs and also an HP 9800. All three work fine with every OSx app including OpenOffice 3.4.1. In LO the print dialog does not use the normal OSx dialog that every other app uses, but has its own. That dialog does not allow me to select Dual sided printing or Print Quality other than Draft, among other missing, but not so important settings. Is there any way around this? Why does LO do its own thing and not use the normal dialogs? I have to have OpenOffice installed just to print properly. Very wasteful of time and resources. LO has fixed a number of things that are not fixed in OO so I'd much rather use LO all the way, except for this one issue. Thanks for any help. Cliff -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Printing with HP 960C Deskjet
For now, as a big work around. . . Do you have luck printing a PDF file to the HP 960? If so, then just export to PDF and print that file. That will work till we get the direct printing from LO issue fixed. For the longest time, that was what I did to print a duplex document on the Epson printer. Do you have the ability to use the OSX 10.5 driver? Or the more generic 10.1.5 to 10.4.x driver? HP has those drivers on their web site for download. I am not a Mac person, but since it is sort of a Linux-like OS [do not tell me how it is not a Linux OS, since I am using a generic comparison] then there must be a way to install this older driver and use it. I know that for Linux and Windows, drivers for earlier version of the OS can work, most times, when there is no newer version for the newer OS. I have used 10.04 and 11.x drivers for my Ubuntu system when there has not been one made for my 12.04 version of the OS. Actually I have done that with several packages. So I am hoping that the 10.5.x driver would work on a 10.7 OSX, since there is none listed for 10.6 or 10.7. Also, LO 3.4.1 may not be the best version for your needs. I had a lot of trouble with dialogs and duplex printing till the 3.6.x line. I use 4.0.4.2 on a Linux system at this time. So it is possible for you to download and install the 3.6.6 version or the 4.0.4 version for OSX and see if some of your dialog issues are fixed. To get duplex working on all my duplexing printers [HP laser, Canon inkjet, and Epson inkjet] I had to check the use LO dialog option for the print dialogs. That was listed as an option for Linux but did not show up for the Windows version. So I would expect that the OSX version might have some different dialog options. Before I found that Linux only option, no one could figure out how to get my Epson printer to duplex when my HP laser would. Now I have a Canon inkjet and the check box option works with that duplexing printer as well. I know that Tom is a Linux person, but he has access to Mac systems, so he may know some OSX specific option, but I have used 3 duplexing printer and I know what works for me. On 07/16/2013 07:26 PM, Tom Davies wrote: Hi :) 2 approaches to fix this, i've not thought about which should be number 1 1. To use the LO dialogues ... When the printer dialogue-box pops-up note there are 4 tabs at the top. On the 1st tab you should see a list of all the printers installed. Select the Hp 960 but instead of printing click on the Properties button. It's just under the list. The Properties pop-up also has a couple of tabs. The 1st should be Paper. Duplex is about the 4h drop-down. Long-edge for Portrait but Short-edge for landscape. My boss can never figure out that short-edge refers to the shortest edge of the paper, or perhaps he is just being kind. 2. To change to normal dialogues ... LibreOffice - Preferences - General - Print dialogues - UNtick the tick-box that says Use LO dialogues. Errr, are you sure that duplex is installed? When you install the driver it should ask you if you want duplex to be included. It might do it automatically. Regards from Tom :) From: Cliff Scott c...@intergate.com To: users@global.libreoffice.org Sent: Tuesday, 16 July 2013, 22:29 Subject: [libreoffice-users] Printing with HP 960C Deskjet Fellow LibreOffice users - I am running LO on a Mac, OSx 10.7.5 and the printer is a HP 960C Deskjet. There are no native OSx drivers for the 960C so I've loaded drivers from Guten Print, Hpijs and also an HP 9800. All three work fine with every OSx app including OpenOffice 3.4.1. In LO the print dialog does not use the normal OSx dialog that every other app uses, but has its own. That dialog does not allow me to select Dual sided printing or Print Quality other than Draft, among other missing, but not so important settings. Is there any way around this? Why does LO do its own thing and not use the normal dialogs? I have to have OpenOffice installed just to print properly. Very wasteful of time and resources. LO has fixed a number of things that are not fixed in OO so I'd much rather use LO all the way, except for this one issue. Thanks for any help. Cliff -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
