Re: open ssh

[Ed Greshko]

On 10/13/19 5:53 AM, Tom Horsley wrote:

On Sat, 12 Oct 2019 22:48:19 +0100
Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:


And that the file /etc/nssswitch.conf contains a line similar to:

Just be aware that file is overwritten by authselect with
whatever values will cause the most headaches :-).


Would "chattr +i /etc/nsswitch.conf" have helped with your headache?


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Re: upgrade to f30: how to recover lost Thunderbird data? [SOLVED]

[Ed Greshko]

On 10/13/19 10:50 AM, Tim via users wrote:

Even that mayn't help.  If, when you log in, your session automatically
starts something to do with Thunderbird, it's messing things up for
you.  In my case, there's Evolution's alarm notify (the calendar)
that's auto started for me, and I don't even use its calendar.


FWIW, that isn't an issue with T-Bird.  Unless you launch it, nothing about it runs by 
"magic".

But, if one is worried about such things, it is very simple to avoid.  Create a 
second user, login as that second
user and then "su - realme" on a terminal and do what you want.

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Re: upgrade to f30: how to recover lost Thunderbird data? [SOLVED]

[Tim via users]

Tim:
>> Just triple-checking: Exiting the program in the usual may not be
>> enough

Bill:
Just to be really really safe, I'll reboot (before my step 1)!

Even that mayn't help.  If, when you log in, your session automatically
starts something to do with Thunderbird, it's messing things up for
you.  In my case, there's Evolution's alarm notify (the calendar)
that's auto started for me, and I don't even use its calendar.


>> I'm not sure about Thunderbird, but many mail programs are often
>> like that.  You end up using some command like "evolution --quit"
>> and/or "killall evolution" (a few times), to get evolution to
>> actually quit.

> Seems like evolution needs some evolution!  Paging Darwin..

You say you want a Rev--o--lution...
We all want to change the world
Well, you know...

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Re: Time to refresh my hardware

[Tim via users]

On Sat, 2019-10-12 at 08:42 -0400, Sam Varshavchik wrote:
> but it's still overkill for me, with their liquid-cooled setup.

If you're considering multi-processor things for lots of actual
computing, then I'd say cooling is going to be a consideration.  A
newer system with all that is probably going to run hotter than older
ones.  They nearly always seem to want more power than ye olde PC.

And liquid cooling has the benefits of being far less noisy, and less
plagued by dust clogging (fans are not drawing air through internal
heatsinks).  
 
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Re: Time to refresh my hardware

[Michael Schwendt]

On Wed, 09 Oct 2019 23:53:39 -0400, Sam Varshavchik wrote:

> And Nvidia's proprietary driver is another thing I'd rather not deal with.  
> it seems that most vendors ship new Nvidia chipsets that x.org lists as not  
> supported.

One issue with Nvidia chipsets is that Fedora works fine without the
proprietary driver but only after you've rebooted from Windows. It's
like the nouveau driver fails to initialise the hardware.
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Re: open ssh

[Samuel Sieb]

On 10/12/19 2:50 PM, Ed Greshko wrote:

On 10/13/19 2:48 AM, Samuel Sieb wrote:

Summary:
In a default setup, host name resolution is, in order of priority: 
/etc/hosts/, mdns, and dns.


The order is controlled by the contents of /etc/nsswitch.conf.  The 
defaults are as discribed.


I was trying to reduce the complication a bit so I didn't mention that.

You probably don't want to maintain a hosts file for all the computers 
on your network, especially if you are using DHCP.

DNS is generally way overkill and more work to manage.
The easiest method is to use mdns, otherwise known as Bonjour on Macs 
and probably some other names.  Use "hostnamectl set-hostname myname" 
to set a unique name on each computer.  Make sure "avahi-daemon" is 
running (should be).  Make sure you have "nss-mdns" installed (should 
be by default).  Then you should be able to do "ping myname" (using 
whatever name you set earlier). 


I'm not well versed in the use of mdns since some  devices on my 
networks don't utilized it.  So, I tend to
setup a DNS server in the routers I use.  This leads me to wonder if it 
is possible to actually "ping myname".

I thought one needed "ping myname.local".


That is correct.  I was confused by the DNS before when I thought this 
was working.  If you set your DNS domain to .local then I think it would 
work.

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Re: open ssh

[Tom Horsley]

On Sat, 12 Oct 2019 22:48:19 +0100
Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:

> And that the file /etc/nssswitch.conf contains a line similar to:

Just be aware that file is overwritten by authselect with
whatever values will cause the most headaches :-).
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Re: open ssh

[Ed Greshko]

On 10/13/19 2:48 AM, Samuel Sieb wrote:

Just a couple of comments


Summary:
In a default setup, host name resolution is, in order of priority: /etc/hosts/, 
mdns, and dns.


The order is controlled by the contents of /etc/nsswitch.conf.  The defaults 
are as discribed.


You probably don't want to maintain a hosts file for all the computers on your 
network, especially if you are using DHCP.
DNS is generally way overkill and more work to manage.
The easiest method is to use mdns, otherwise known as Bonjour on Macs and probably some other names.  Use "hostnamectl set-hostname myname" to set a unique name on each computer.  Make sure "avahi-daemon" is running (should be).  Make sure you have "nss-mdns" installed (should be by default).  Then you should be able to do "ping myname" (using whatever name you set earlier). 


I'm not well versed in the use of mdns since some  devices on my networks don't 
utilized it.  So, I tend to
setup a DNS server in the routers I use.  This leads me to wonder if it is possible to 
actually "ping myname".
I thought one needed "ping myname.local".


[egreshko@meimei ~]$ ping f31bk
ping: f31bk: Name or service not known

[egreshko@meimei ~]$ ping f31bk.local
PING f31bk.local (192.168.1.55) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from 192.168.1.55 (192.168.1.55): icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=0.316 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.1.55 (192.168.1.55): icmp_seq=2 ttl=64 time=0.265 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.1.55 (192.168.1.55): icmp_seq=3 ttl=64 time=0.234 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.1.55 (192.168.1.55): icmp_seq=4 ttl=64 time=0.239 ms

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Re: open ssh

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Sat, 2019-10-12 at 11:48 -0700, Samuel Sieb wrote:
> The easiest method is to use mdns, otherwise known as Bonjour on Macs 
> and probably some other names.  Use "hostnamectl set-hostname myname" to 
> set a unique name on each computer.  Make sure "avahi-daemon" is running 
> (should be).  Make sure you have "nss-mdns" installed (should be by 
> default).  Then you should be able to do "ping myname" (using whatever 
> name you set earlier).

And that the file /etc/nssswitch.conf contains a line similar to:

hosts:  files mdns4_minimal [NOTFOUND=return] dns myhostname

poc
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Re: Time to refresh my hardware

[George N. White III]

On Sat, 12 Oct 2019 at 16:10, Samuel Sieb  wrote:

> On 10/12/19 5:42 AM, Sam Varshavchik wrote:
> > George N. White III writes:
> >
> >>  https://www.titancomputers.com/Titan-W299-Intel-Core-i9-SkyLake-Series-3D-CAD-p/w299.htm
> >
> https://www.titancomputers.com/Titan-W299-Intel-Core-i9-SkyLake-Series-3D-CAD-p/w299.htm
> >>
> >>
> >> offers Fedora on Core i9 workstations.   They only sell the high end
> >> i9's in a case with power
> >> and cooling for multiple graphics cards.   For your needs that is
> >> overkill, but most systems
> >> with high-CPU's are used with multiple graphics cards.
> >
> > Looks like they do have some AMD systems, which appear to give more bang
> > for the buck than Intel; but it's still overkill for me, with their
> > liquid-cooled setup.
>
> At work a couple of years ago, we built two computers for the science
> people with dual 16-core AMD CPUs and there was no special cooling
> needed for those.
>
> There are benchmark results for a 32-core / 64-thread AMD Threadripper
2990WX
(250 Watt TDP) at
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article=amd-2990wx-cooling=1
"Besides the Cooler Master Threadripper heatsink, AMD also included the
Enermax Liqtech TR4 240 with
the Threadripper 2 review hardware."  The Enermax ran consistently cooler
through the benchmarks.
There are plots of temperature over time that show all the coolers
recovered quickly between
iterations, but many of them showed a rising trend for the duration of the
benchmark.   If you know
your workload provides some idle periods then air-cooling seems practical.
If you do have the
odd large task then thermal throttling will slow it down, but that may be
an acceptable trade-off
for a built-by-user system.

Hardware vendors have to configure for demanding workloads heavy on both
I/O and CPU and
include the heat from a caseload of high-end HDD's.  SSD's help to reduce
overall cooling
requirements.

Liquid cooling generally simplifies airflow design issues.   The big
vendors can afford lots of
testing and custom air ducts, etc. that you don't get with the average user
build.

-- 
George N. White III
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Re: Time to refresh my hardware

[Samuel Sieb]

On 10/12/19 5:42 AM, Sam Varshavchik wrote:

George N. White III writes:

https://www.titancomputers.com/Titan-W299-Intel-Core-i9-SkyLake-Series-3D-CAD-p/w299.htm>https://www.titancomputers.com/Titan-W299-Intel-Core-i9-SkyLake-Series-3D-CAD-p/w299.htm 



offers Fedora on Core i9 workstations.   They only sell the high end 
i9's in a case with power
and cooling for multiple graphics cards.   For your needs that is 
overkill, but most systems

with high-CPU's are used with multiple graphics cards.


Looks like they do have some AMD systems, which appear to give more bang 
for the buck than Intel; but it's still overkill for me, with their 
liquid-cooled setup.


At work a couple of years ago, we built two computers for the science 
people with dual 16-core AMD CPUs and there was no special cooling 
needed for those.

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Re: Time to refresh my hardware

[Samuel Sieb]

On 10/12/19 5:19 AM, Sam Varshavchik wrote:

Samuel Sieb writes:
If you don't mind saying, what country are you in?  Would you be 
comfortable with building the system yourself?  You will probably find 
it difficult to get the combination you want otherwise.


USA. I'm ok building everything together, if I can source the 
motherboard, chassis, CPU, RAM, and HDDs from one place, and not have to 
run around everywhere.


I usually order from a store called Memory Express but that's only in 
Canada and I don't know what the shipping would be like.  newegg.com is 
ok, but the selection can be a bit overwhelming.  See if you have any 
local computer stores that sell parts.

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Re: open ssh

[Samuel Sieb]

On 10/12/19 7:25 AM, Angelo Moreschini wrote:
/Thank you for your answers which provided me with useful basics on how 
Linux establishes DNS./


/However, even reading other documentation, I am still not clear what 
mechanisms for which a computer becomes accessible in the LAN through 
its name:/


Details at the end.

/There are two important files: etc / hosts, etc / hostname and a system 
service  which are used to manage this problem, but it is not 
clear to me how (mechanism) they work, collaborate and interact./


"/etc/hosts" contains a manual mapping of names to IP addresses.  It is 
only useful in very limited cases.  I use it to block a lot of ads by 
mapping the ad server names to my localhost.  But I've also used it for 
accessing remote sites that don't have a real DNS name.  "hostname" is 
just a little utility to print out what the name the computer has been 
assigned.  "hostnamectl" is a utility to set (and view) the current and 
permanent computer name.


/The DNS is defined and presented to an unsuspecting reader (also in the 
Fedora manuals) as a telephone directory which provides the telephone 
number of each subscriber to a hypothetical phone company OK./


/It is said that this telephone directory is modeled as a tree structure 
at the top of which we find the domains .com, .org, gov, .fr, it, etc. 
and works as a centralized server of the network that supplies the 
numbers in correspondence of names … //OK, OK…./


/This type of solution applies to large computer networks of course./


This is how the internet works.  It's really a distributed directory. 
The .org, .fr, etc are managed by a top-level server and below that each 
group, company, or person manages their own part.  It can also be used 
in an internal network no matter what size.  I run freeipa which helps 
manage users and dns entries on my home network and at a school.


/But since this clarification is not explicitly highlighted it can be 
confusing to a reader who reads the manual for the first time //in what 
context DNS is applied//...:/


Unless you have a local override, DNS is what is used to resolve a 
network name.


/Another is to get the name of a computer in a LAN and other is to 
create a DNS server .. and context difference (and the different 
solutions) is not highlighted in the manuals ...:/


/It was difficult for me and I am still personally bewildered to 
distinguish which two different contexts may be .../


/That is to say ... when to simply use the Linux kernel service and when 
it can be useful to create a DNS server implemented via BIND./


You would only setup bind if you want to use a full domain setup on your 
local network.  Most people have no need of this.


Summary:
In a default setup, host name resolution is, in order of priority: 
/etc/hosts/, mdns, and dns.
You probably don't want to maintain a hosts file for all the computers 
on your network, especially if you are using DHCP.

DNS is generally way overkill and more work to manage.
The easiest method is to use mdns, otherwise known as Bonjour on Macs 
and probably some other names.  Use "hostnamectl set-hostname myname" to 
set a unique name on each computer.  Make sure "avahi-daemon" is running 
(should be).  Make sure you have "nss-mdns" installed (should be by 
default).  Then you should be able to do "ping myname" (using whatever 
name you set earlier).

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Re: upgrade to f30: how to recover lost Thunderbird data? [SOLVED]

[home user]

(responding to Tim)
> Just triple-checking: Exiting the program in the usual may not be 
enough

Just to be really really safe, I'll reboot (before my step 1)!
> I'm not sure about Thunderbird, but many mail programs are often like 
that.
> You end up using some command like "evolution --quit" and/or "killall 
evolution"

> (a few times), to get evolution to actually quit.
Seems like evolution needs some evolution!  Paging Darwin..

(responding to sixpack13)
>  I would only do the following: - forget all I wrote up so far - 
I saw this post too late.  But thank-you, anyway.

(following up on my last post)
> ... after checking for any further posts on this thread, I'll try to: ...
The 8 steps worked.
* Step 5, the importing address books part, was tedious and took a long 
time.  Some manual editing of the csv files was needed.  But it got done.
* Step 7, copying the filter files had to be done slowly and very 
carefully, as file paths were long and v-e-r-y similar but not 
identical.  Using the two Files GUIs really helped.


Bottom line: success!

(responding to sixpack13)
> be prepared for F31 in two weeks or so !!!
For reasons stated in another thread, I will not upgrade to F31 until 
about 2 weeks before F32 is initially released (April 2020?).


I thank all participants for their time and effort.

I'm tagging this thread SOLVED.

Now (well, maybe in a little while) I can go back to the "upgrade 
problem: space on '/' filesystem".


Bill.

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Re: upgrade to f30: how to recover lost Thunderbird data?

[sixpack13]

> 
> Calendar data exported.
> Paths to filters recorded.
> Address book saved.
> 
> * 6 of my e-mail accounts are free yahoo
> accounts; in Thunderbird they 
> are imap.
> * 1 of my accounts is a comcast account; in Thunderbird it's imap.
> That's all: 7 altogether.
> All are set up to *not* save messages locally, so I think there's no 
> migration to be done.  (Am I correct?)
> 

I'm somewhat confused !
Up to now I thought you were unable to run Thunderbird, so exporting was unable 
too.

Now, since you successful exported your data and your email accounts are all 
imap I would only do the following:
- forget all I wrote up so far -

1.
save your passwords of your email accounts: 
- if you don't know them out of your head -
in TB: Menue "Edit" => "Preferences" => "Security" => Tab "Passwords" => "Saved 
Passwords" => "Show Passwords"

right click on the entries => copy Username 
AND 
right click on the entries again => copy Password  

save them in a text file.

1b.
take a screenshot of your TB AddOn's, if you got one

2.
remove all under ~/.thunderbird

3. 
start thunderbird => a new profile is created
TB should be the lastest you can get via dnf upgrade

4.
setup all your email accounts with the user name and user password from step 1.
you need to know the IMAP server adresses, too !

5.
import all your calendars, adressbooks, etc.
mail filter should go, too via: Menue "Tools" => import => Filter => point to 
your old TB profile ? 
- never done, so I done know -

6. 
reinstall your TB AddOn's

7.
configure your printer under TB

8.
adjust all your TB-Preferences to your need 

advantage: 
all old gruft collected over years under the TB profile, which could cause 
trouble, is removed too. 
Your are up with a shiny new TB and a shiny new AND clean profile and hopefully 
there is any trouble left.

9. 
at last: a backup of the shiny new configured state !

10.
be prepared for F31 in two weeks or so !!!
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Re: Time to refresh my hardware

[George N. White III]

On Sat, 12 Oct 2019 at 09:43, Sam Varshavchik  wrote:

> George N. White III writes:
>
> > https://www.titancomputers.com/Titan-W299-Intel-Core-i9-SkyLake-
> > Series-3D-CAD-p/w299.htm>
> https://www.titancomputers.com/Titan-W299-Intel-
> > Core-i9-SkyLake-Series-3D-CAD-p/w299.htm
> >
> > offers Fedora on Core i9 workstations.   They only sell the high end
> i9's in
> > a case with power
> > and cooling for multiple graphics cards.   For your needs that is
> overkill,
> > but most systems
> > with high-CPU's are used with multiple graphics cards.
>
> Looks like they do have some AMD systems, which appear to give more bang
> for
> the buck than Intel; but it's still overkill for me, with their liquid-
> cooled setup.
>

I think AMD provides/requires their own liquid cooled system.
AMD has: https://www.amd.com/en/where-to-buy/workstations-cpu

If you plan to run a high-end i9 cooling will be an issue.   At my former
work there
are lots of Dell Xeon workstations.   My group snagged one with dual
12-core CPU's
for remote sensing applications, but when I turned it on my 1500kV UPS was
overloaded.  On investigation I discovered it had been configured to run
tasks
in a distributed numerical model at startup.  After configuring for a
softer start the
UPS was OK, but in normal operation it would pull over 800 watts.  I think
those
CPU's were 250 TDP and core i9's are 165, so you might get down to 300 watts
with one i9 at full throttle.   If you are in Alaska or on top of a
mountain and don't
have high-end GPU's you might get away without room A/C and liquid cooling,
but
vendors have to plan for a range of environments.

Have you considered renting cloud capacity for your compiles?  I see many
people using cloud systems who work with large existing C++ codes, fixing
bugs or adding features, but developing a big system from scratch might
be a stretch.  Many people use laptops as their main system, which allows
them to move around and has built-in UPS (in Europe many people work on
trains, using mosh to get a bash shell in the cloud).

https://www.linode.com/products/standard-linodes/

Google has a free introductory offer of $300 worth of cloud services.

-- 
George N. White III
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Re: open ssh

[Angelo Moreschini]

*Thank you for your answers which provided me with useful basics on how
Linux establishes DNS.*

*However, even reading other documentation, I am still not clear what
mechanisms for which a computer becomes accessible in the LAN through its
name:*

*There are two important files: etc / hosts, etc / hostname and a system
service  which are used to manage this problem, but it is not
clear to me how (mechanism) they work, collaborate and interact.*


*There is another aspect of the DSN that I would like to understand better:*

*The DNS is defined and presented to an unsuspecting reader (also in the
Fedora manuals) as a telephone directory which provides the telephone
number of each subscriber to a hypothetical phone company OK.*

*It is said that this telephone directory is modeled as a tree structure at
the top of which we find the domains .com, .org, gov, .fr, it, etc. and
works as a centralized server of the network that supplies the numbers in
correspondence of names … **OK, OK….*

*This type of solution applies to large computer networks of course.*

*But since this clarification is not explicitly highlighted it can be
confusing to a reader who reads the manual for the first time **in what
context DNS is applied**...:*

*Another is to get the name of a computer in a LAN and other is to create a
DNS server .. and context difference (and the different solutions) is not
highlighted in the manuals ...:*

*It was difficult for me and I am still personally bewildered to
distinguish which two different contexts may be ...*

*That is to say ... when to simply use the Linux kernel service and when it
can be useful to create a DNS server implemented via BIND.*


*Thand you*



*Angelo*

On Sat, Oct 5, 2019 at 4:26 PM Ed Greshko  wrote:

> On 10/5/19 3:56 AM, Samuel Sieb wrote:
> > On 10/4/19 6:35 AM, George N. White III wrote:
> >> On Fri, 4 Oct 2019 at 06:41, Angelo Moreschini <
> mrangelo.fed...@gmail.com > wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> currently I perform operations between different computers in my
> >> local network using open SSH; however, when I do this, I always use
> >> the computer's IP number to reference the host. (ex: sudo ssh
> >> angelo_dev@10.0.0.15 )
> >>
> >> I'm wondering without yet finding an answer how to do the same thing
> >> using (instead of the IP address) the name of the computer ..
> >> Do I have to Installase BIND? And then what else is needed? ...
> >>
> >>
> >> Have you tried Multicast DNS <
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multicast_DNS>?See mDNS on Fedora Linux
> 
> >
> > This is what I was just going to suggest.  You need to set on each
> computer a unique hostname with "hostnamectl" and make sure that avahi is
> running.  On the computer you're connecting from, make sure you have
> "nss-mdns" installed (I don't know if it is by default).  Then you can use
> ".local" to connect.  If you don't set a hostname, I think the
> default is "linux", so you end up with linux.local, linux-2.local, etc.
> >
>
> One thing to be aware of, and not mentioned in the fedora magazine article
> is you happen to
> have a network with some hosts using IPv6 only you need to change the
> nsswitch.conf
> host line to mdns_minimal instead of mdns4_minimal.
>
>
> --
> If simple questions can be answered with a simple google query then why
> are there so many of them?
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Re: Time to refresh my hardware

[Sam Varshavchik]

George N. White III writes:

https://www.titancomputers.com/Titan-W299-Intel-Core-i9-SkyLake- 
Series-3D-CAD-p/w299.htm>https://www.titancomputers.com/Titan-W299-Intel- 
Core-i9-SkyLake-Series-3D-CAD-p/w299.htm


offers Fedora on Core i9 workstations.   They only sell the high end i9's in  
a case with power
and cooling for multiple graphics cards.   For your needs that is overkill,  
but most systems

with high-CPU's are used with multiple graphics cards.


Looks like they do have some AMD systems, which appear to give more bang for  
the buck than Intel; but it's still overkill for me, with their liquid- 
cooled setup.





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Re: Time to refresh my hardware

[Sam Varshavchik]

Robert G (Doc) Savage via users writes:


On Wed, 2019-10-09 at 22:08 -0400, Sam Varshavchik wrote:
> My C++ compiles are getting longer. It's time to get new hardware,
> but I'm
> having some difficulty finding Fedora-friendly hardware, that's
> slightly
> above average grade, such as dual CPU and spinning rust (I haven't
> gotten
> quite aboard the SSD train, with its built-in expiration date).
>
> Tips and links appreciated.
> ___

Sam,

If you can stand the price, the Lenovo ThinkPad P73 "mobile
workstation" could be a serious horse for you. It offers two NVME slots
that can support two very fast 2T SSDs. My ThinkPad P72 has those and
64GB of ECC memory. It can be ordered with an internal SATA hard drive
if you really want "spinning rust." The only thing I haven't been able
to figure out is how to disable the touchpad -- I'm a mouse guy.


I love my old W520 Thinkpad. But I want to replace my workstations, with two  
spinning plates of rust inside each one.


Insofar as X, if you want to disable the infernal click-to-tap, just create  
the following file:


[mrsam@thinkpad ~]$ cat /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/10-disable-taps.conf
Section "InputClass"
  Identifier "tap-by-default"
  MatchIsTouchpad "on"
  Option "TapButton1" "0"
EndSection


This gets rid of the biggest annoyance, when it comes to touchpads.



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Re: Time to refresh my hardware

[Sam Varshavchik]

Samuel Sieb writes:


On 10/11/19 6:27 PM, Sam Varshavchik wrote:
My requirements are not very stringent. Onboard video and audio will do, as  
long as it works out of the box with x.org, and has reasonable compositing  
and can keep up with full screen video playback. Dual 1GB NIC, a pair of  
SATA drives, and then as many cores and RAM as I can get, hopefully 12 cores  
at least. I guess what I'm really looking for is some place which offers a  
wide selection of hardware that I can match up to within my budget. But all  
the places that I looked seemed to be limited to 5-6 models, and quite  
limited customizations options. I end up with either having my only video  
choices be the latest and greatest Nvidia chipsets that only work with their  
binary blobs (no thank you), or all the 12+ core options are ridiculously  
overpriced Xeons; or they seem to intentionally hike up their prices by  
having no storage options other than high capacity SSDs, for storage.


If you don't mind saying, what country are you in?  Would you be comfortable  
with building the system yourself?  You will probably find it difficult to  
get the combination you want otherwise.


USA. I'm ok building everything together, if I can source the motherboard,  
chassis, CPU, RAM, and HDDs from one place, and not have to run around  
everywhere.




Dell came pretty close, if slightly pricy. They actually have a workstation  
that they certify RHEL for (but ship with Ubuntu). I would've overlooked  
having to overpay for Xeons (no AMD options), except that I looked at their  
manual. Their motherboards have button cell batteries. Maybe I'm off base,  
but who still puts button cell batteries on their motherboards? Dell can't  
just pay a few more cents for proper NVRAM? So they go with button cells, to  
keep the lights on for the BIOS settings. This is obviously intentional;  
this is their business product, clearly the reason for that is to have the  
CR2032 go flat in a few years, and lose all BIOS settings; but who cares  
since they expect that business will replace their hardware every three  
years. Still, this is just plain silly.


I don't know where you're looking, but pretty much everyone still uses  
batteries on the motherboard.  It's to keep the RTC going when the power is  
off, not just to keep the settings.  The only batteries I've had to replace  
were on computers that were well over 10 years old.


That's a surprise to me. I haven't opened up my two workstations in several  
years, they've been chugging along just fine. I don't recall seeing a button  
cell anywhere. But I could be wrong.




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Re: Time to refresh my hardware

[George N. White III]

On Fri, 11 Oct 2019 at 22:27, Sam Varshavchik  wrote:

> Tim via users writes:
>
> > On Wed, 2019-10-09 at 22:08 -0400, Sam Varshavchik wrote:
> > > My C++ compiles are getting longer. It's time to get new hardware,
> > > but I'm having some difficulty finding Fedora-friendly hardware,
> > > that's slightly above average grade, such as dual CPU and spinning
> > > rust (I haven't gotten quite aboard the SSD train, with its built-in
> > > expiration date).
> >
> > You should probably tell people more of your requirements, if you're
> > after recommendations.  Such as do you need a sound card, graphics
> > card, will on-board do?
>
> My requirements are not very stringent. Onboard video and audio will do,
> as
> long as it works out of the box with x.org, and has reasonable
> compositing
> and can keep up with full screen video playback. Dual 1GB NIC, a pair of
> SATA drives, and then as many cores and RAM as I can get, hopefully 12
> cores
> at least. I guess what I'm really looking for is some place which offers
> a
> wide selection of hardware that I can match up to within my budget. But
> all
> the places that I looked seemed to be limited to 5-6 models, and quite
> limited customizations options. I end up with either having my only video
> choices be the latest and greatest Nvidia chipsets that only work with
> their
> binary blobs (no thank you), or all the 12+ core options are ridiculously
> overpriced Xeons; or they seem to intentionally hike up their prices by
> having no storage options other than high capacity SSDs, for storage.
>

Video and AI drive the market for high-end workstations.   For a niche
application you either configure your own or look for the best match
in mainstream hardware.  When get into heavy processing, the cooling
system becomes an important consideration.   The big vendors have
gone to some lengths to ensure CPU's don't slow down under heavy
workloads.   For remote sensing and video workloads, heat from HDD's
was an issue some years ago.  These days the HDD's are all in
external cabinets and the workstations boot from SSD's.

There are core i9 models with 18 cores and 165 watt TDP (14 nm process)
https://techgage.com/article/intel-core-i9-9980xe-in-linux/

In 2017:
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-core-i9-7900x-skylake-x,5092-9.html
says: "Intel’s Core i9-7900X is a good choice for enthusiasts running
well-threaded
professional tasks, particularly when a Xeon-based workstation might be
overkill. "




> Dell came pretty close, if slightly pricy. They actually have a
> workstation
> that they certify RHEL for (but ship with Ubuntu). I would've overlooked
> having to overpay for Xeons (no AMD options), except that I looked at
> their
> manual. Their motherboards have button cell batteries. Maybe I'm off
> base,
> but who still puts button cell batteries on their motherboards? Dell
> can't
> just pay a few more cents for proper NVRAM? So they go with button cells,
> to
> keep the lights on for the BIOS settings. This is obviously intentional;
> this is their business product, clearly the reason for that is to have
> the
> CR2032 go flat in a few years, and lose all BIOS settings; but who cares
> since they expect that business will replace their hardware every three
> years. Still, this is just plain silly.
>

I've had those batteries die after a couple years in lowest bid
no-name boxes, but the big vendors use higher quality batteries
and maybe lower power demand clock/BIOS backup memory.
Failures were rare under a 5-year replacement schedule.

https://www.custompcreview.com/computer-builds/best-workstation-pc-builds/
says:

"You’ve checked out Dell, you’ve checked out HP. Companies like these want
$5,000+ for a PC that would suit your needs, and unfortunately while you’d
be
happy to blow $2,000, you’re not ready to drop $5,000. Understandable. What
can you do? Well, how about buying some hardware and building it all
yourself!"

They are using Windows, but for $3000 you can afford to swap out problematic
components.  Note the advice on graphics cards.

https://www.titancomputers.com/Titan-W299-Intel-Core-i9-SkyLake-Series-3D-CAD-p/w299.htm
offers Fedora on Core i9 workstations.   They only sell the high end i9's
in a case with power
and cooling for multiple graphics cards.   For your needs that is overkill,
but most systems
with high-CPU's are used with multiple graphics cards.

-- 
George N. White III
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