Re: Reasons for staying on a old version ( Re: Prepping for upgrade)

[Thomas Dineen]

Kevin:

Decaf!


On 3/12/2020 7:55 PM, Kevin Becker wrote:
Could we all just try to stop with the "clever" snarky nonsense and 
keep the list positive and on topic? If you dislike fedora, then feel 
free to try something else. If you have constructive criticism, share 
it. If you just want to bicker and argue about who killed who then 
maybe take it to another venue?




On Thu, 2020-03-12 at 19:41 -0700, Thomas Dineen wrote:

"dude, GO HOME and tell that your barber !"
Not only do you have quality problems, you have lost your sense
of humor, and that is way worse than buggy software.
Maybe a transplant?
BTW: Saying that your better than Windows is not saying much!
Well there is always CentOS, Ubuntu,...
Thomas Dineen
On 3/12/2020 6:15 PM, sixpack13 wrote:

On 13.03.20 01:34, Thomas Dineen wrote:

"Fedora users aren't "customers", we're essentially beta testers."
Having been an observer here since the beginning of Fedora:
I would say more victims than Beta Testers! Where are the Gas
Ovens located these days?
Thomas Dineen

what a bullshit !
observer, victim, gas oven (wording equals mind set ?)
dude, GO HOME and tell that your barber !

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Re: Reasons for staying on a old version ( Re: Prepping for upgrade)

[Kevin Becker]

Could we all just try to stop with the "clever" snarky nonsense and
keep the list positive and on topic?  If you dislike fedora, then feel
free to try something else.  If you have constructive criticism, share
it.  If you just want to bicker and argue about who killed who then
maybe take it to another venue?


On Thu, 2020-03-12 at 19:41 -0700, Thomas Dineen wrote:
> "dude, GO HOME and tell that your barber !"
> Not only do you have quality problems, you have lost your sense
> of humor, and that is way worse than buggy software.
> Maybe a transplant?
> BTW: Saying that your better than Windows is not saying much!
> Well there is always CentOS, Ubuntu,...
> Thomas Dineen
> 
> 
> On 3/12/2020 6:15 PM, sixpack13 wrote:
> > On 13.03.20 01:34, Thomas Dineen wrote:
> > > "Fedora users aren't "customers", we're essentially beta
> > > testers."
> > > Having been an observer here since the beginning of Fedora:I
> > > would say more victims than Beta Testers! Where are the GasOvens
> > > located these days?
> > > Thomas Dineen
> > 
> > what a bullshit !
> > observer, victim, gas oven (wording equals mind set ?)
> > dude, GO HOME and tell that your barber !
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[389-users] Re: Password lockout not working

[William Brown]

> On 12 Mar 2020, at 21:25, Todor Petkov  wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I configured password lockout policy for account (5 retries, 30
> minutes lockout), but if the user tries to log with bad password,
> passwordRetryCount is not being increased (I am tailing the audit
> log).

I think the audit log doesn't show internal modifications by default perhaps? 

Can you see the passwordRetryCount on the entries as directory manager in the 
process? 

> 
> Can someone point me, what am I missing here? Versions of packages:
> 
> 389-admin-console-doc-1.1.12-1.el7.noarch
> 389-ds-base-1.3.9.1-12.el7_7.x86_64
> 389-adminutil-1.1.22-2.el7.x86_64
> 389-ds-base-snmp-1.3.9.1-12.el7_7.x86_64
> 389-admin-1.1.46-1.el7.x86_64
> 389-admin-console-1.1.12-1.el7.noarch
> 389-ds-console-doc-1.2.16-1.el7.noarch
> 389-ds-1.2.2-6.el7.noarch
> 389-console-1.1.19-6.el7.noarch
> 389-ds-console-1.2.16-1.el7.noarch
> 389-dsgw-1.1.11-5.el7.x86_64
> 389-ds-base-libs-1.3.9.1-12.el7_7.x86_64
> 
> Thanks,
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—
Sincerely,

William Brown

Senior Software Engineer, 389 Directory Server
SUSE Labs
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Re: Reasons for staying on a old version ( Re: Prepping for upgrade)

[Thomas Dineen]

"dude, GO HOME and tell that your barber !"

Not only do you have quality problems, you have lost your sense

of humor, and that is way worse than buggy software.

Maybe a transplant?

BTW: Saying that your better than Windows is not saying much!

Well there is always CentOS, Ubuntu,...

Thomas Dineen



On 3/12/2020 6:15 PM, sixpack13 wrote:

On 13.03.20 01:34, Thomas Dineen wrote:

"Fedora users aren't "customers", we're essentially beta testers."

Having been an observer here since the beginning of Fedora:
I would say more victims than Beta Testers! Where are the Gas
Ovens located these days?

Thomas Dineen



what a bullshit !

observer, victim, gas oven (wording equals mind set ?)

dude, GO HOME and tell that your barber !


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Re: Reasons for staying on a old version ( Re: Prepping for upgrade)

[home user]

(On Wed, 2020-03-11 at 4:31 PM, Christopher wrote)
> I am just curious why people stay on old versions of
> Fedora like say FC30 instead of upgrading to 31?

I'm one of those people.

Several years ago, I worked for a contractor for the US National Weather 
Service.  I worked on software called AWIPS, the software used in all 
National Weather Service forecast offices to produce forecasts, 
advisories, watches, and warnings.  It was "mission-critical".  The 
operating system was Redhat Enterprise.  We followed a policy of waiting 
a full year after a new Enterprise release was released before upgrading 
operational workstations.  I saw good wisdom in this.  Though a new 
release was thoroughly tested by Redhat before releasing it, we knew 
some fundamental principles of software testing:

- there's always another bug.
- it's not possible to completely test any non-trivial software.
So any newly-released version of Redhat Enterprise (or any other 
operating system) was guaranteed to still have bugs. By waiting the 
extra year, the number (and severity?) of bugs should be substantially 
less.


I have only my one home workstation; no cell/mobile phone. Moreover, I 
have no training or professional experience in sys.admin.; I'm merely a 
home user, as my handle suggests.  I use my workstation mainly for 
personal business, not to a significant degree for gaming or social 
networking.  Thus for me personally, this workstation is "mission 
critical".  So I apply what I learned from my AWIPS days.  Fedora is an 
excellent operating system, and I believe each release is well tested 
before it goes out.  But it's huge and complex (like all operating 
systems).  It still has bugs.  So I wait about 5 1/2 months before 
upgrading to the new release.  Even then it still has bugs, but fewer, 
and hopefully less impactful.  Less risk. Other people who have 
fallbacks can take more risk and upgrade sooner if they so desire, if 
that's what they believe best for them.


Welcome to Fedora.  I hope you like it; I do (overall much better than 
windows).  As for upgrading, do what you believe works best for you.  
That's what I do.

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Re: Reasons for staying on a old version ( Re: Prepping for upgrade)

[sixpack13]

On 13.03.20 01:34, Thomas Dineen wrote:

"Fedora users aren't "customers", we're essentially beta testers."

Having been an observer here since the beginning of Fedora:
I would say more victims than Beta Testers! Where are the Gas
Ovens located these days?

Thomas Dineen



what a bullshit !

observer, victim, gas oven (wording equals mind set ?)

dude, GO HOME and tell that your barber !

--
sixpack13
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Re: Reasons for staying on a old version ( Re: Prepping for upgrade)

[Thomas Dineen]

"Fedora users aren't "customers", we're essentially beta testers."

Having been an observer here since the beginning of Fedora:
I would say more victims than Beta Testers! Where are the Gas
Ovens located these days?

Thomas Dineen



On 3/12/2020 2:03 PM, Doug Wyatt wrote:

Fedora users aren't "customers", we're essentially beta testers.

On 3/12/2020 3:34 PM, Thomas Dineen wrote:

Gentle People:

"I don't think your opinion is really necessary here"

My god what a ridiculus thing to say! P.S. I am thinking

something much worse!

Quality is in the eye of the User (Customer)!

If the customer says you have a quality problem, *then you have a
quality problem**.*

FIX IT!

P.S. I found that the best upgrade path is to CentOS.

Thomas Dineen





On 3/12/2020 1:12 PM, wi...@code-heads.com wrote:

From: Neil Thompson 
Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2020 3:09 PM
To: Community support for Fedora users 
Subject: Re: Reasons for staying on a old version ( Re: Prepping for upgrade)

Ralf,

With all due respect (i.e. none) I don't think your opinion is really necessary 
here - you've made your feelings clear over the last long while and I have to 
wonder what the heck you're still doing here if you hate the whole thing so 
much.  Surely there's another distribution that meets your strict requirements 
better than Fedora?

Neil,
A agree with you on this!!!  I have may not posted much but I have been working 
with Fedora since release 1!

Ralf,
Maybe you need to find another distro.

Regards,
Will (CodeHeads)
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Re: prep. for upgrade.

[home user]

(On 03/11/2020 3:59 PM, I wrote)

> > Actually, I just noticed there's a dropdown...
> I missed that.  ...  I'll try that tomorrow afternoon
> after the weekly patches.  That's probably what I'm looking for.

The first few tries failed.  In two cases, the system didn't even shut 
down properly after the boot from the USB stick failed.  One of those 
resulted in the CPU overheating.  A friend (now retired; used to work 
for Cray and IBM) said something, I don't remember what, that triggered 
a vague memory that on my work station, booting from a USB stick only 
works from one or two specific ports, which take USB-2 (not USB-3) 
sticks.  So I re-did the mediawriter, this time writing the download to 
a USB-2 stick.  Then I put that stick in the first USB-2 port.  It 
worked.  (I always wanted to stick it to my tower!)  I have not yet 
tried to do anything "rooty" yet.


Tomorrow, I'll stick it to my workstation again, and try to do something 
"rooty", and report.

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Re: Reasons for staying on a old version ( Re: Prepping for upgrade)

[Christopher Marlow]

Wow this post / question turned into a hate fest quite quickly. < Lol >

Chris

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Re: problem with gimp while attempting to upgrade from f30 to f31 [Next]

[Ed Greshko]

On 2020-03-13 00:22, François Patte wrote:
> Thank You! That's done the trick.
>
> Why are these modules installed and activated? It is the first time I
> have encounter this problem.

gimp is a module in F31.  And, I'm guessing, a package in the the others was 
installed at some point.

This issue on updates to F32 was actually discussed on another list.  I think 
the consensus is that all
modules will be reset during the upgrade process.  And, this explains how I 
knew the "fix".

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Re: Reasons for staying on a old version ( Re: Prepping for upgrade)

[Doug Wyatt via users]

Fedora users aren't "customers", we're essentially beta testers.

On 3/12/2020 3:34 PM, Thomas Dineen wrote:
> Gentle People:
> 
> "I don't think your opinion is really necessary here"
> 
> My god what a ridiculus thing to say! P.S. I am thinking
> 
> something much worse!
> 
> Quality is in the eye of the User (Customer)!
> 
> If the customer says you have a quality problem, *then you have a
> quality problem**.*
> 
> FIX IT!
> 
> P.S. I found that the best upgrade path is to CentOS.
> 
> Thomas Dineen
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 3/12/2020 1:12 PM, wi...@code-heads.com wrote:
>> From: Neil Thompson  
>> Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2020 3:09 PM
>> To: Community support for Fedora users 
>> Subject: Re: Reasons for staying on a old version ( Re: Prepping for upgrade)
>>
>> Ralf,
>>
>> With all due respect (i.e. none) I don't think your opinion is really 
>> necessary here - you've made your feelings clear over the last long while 
>> and I have to wonder what the heck you're still doing here if you hate the 
>> whole thing so much.  Surely there's another distribution that meets your 
>> strict requirements better than Fedora?
>>
>> Neil,
>> A agree with you on this!!!  I have may not posted much but I have been 
>> working with Fedora since release 1!
>>
>> Ralf,
>> Maybe you need to find another distro. 
>>
>> Regards,
>> Will (CodeHeads)
>> ___
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> 
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Re: Reasons for staying on a old version ( Re: Prepping for upgrade)

[Thomas Dineen]

Gentle People:

"I don't think your opinion is really necessary here"

Its those dammed annoying customer complaints again!

If you have customers (Users) you will have customer complaints.

I am vehemently against the practice of having customers!

Thomas Dineen



On 3/12/2020 1:34 PM, Thomas Dineen wrote:


Gentle People:

"I don't think your opinion is really necessary here"

My god what a ridiculus thing to say! P.S. I am thinking

something much worse!

Quality is in the eye of the User (Customer)!

If the customer says you have a quality problem, *then you have a 
quality problem**.*


FIX IT!

P.S. I found that the best upgrade path is to CentOS.

Thomas Dineen





On 3/12/2020 1:12 PM, wi...@code-heads.com wrote:
From: Neil Thompson  
Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2020 3:09 PM

To: Community support for Fedora users
Subject: Re: Reasons for staying on a old version ( Re: Prepping for upgrade)

Ralf,

With all due respect (i.e. none) I don't think your opinion is really necessary 
here - you've made your feelings clear over the last long while and I have to 
wonder what the heck you're still doing here if you hate the whole thing so 
much.  Surely there's another distribution that meets your strict requirements 
better than Fedora?

Neil,
A agree with you on this!!!  I have may not posted much but I have been working 
with Fedora since release 1!

Ralf,
Maybe you need to find another distro.

Regards,
Will (CodeHeads)
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Re: Reasons for staying on a old version ( Re: Prepping for upgrade)

[Thomas Dineen]

Gentle People:

"I don't think your opinion is really necessary here"

My god what a ridiculus thing to say! P.S. I am thinking

something much worse!

Quality is in the eye of the User (Customer)!

If the customer says you have a quality problem, *then you have a 
quality problem**.*


FIX IT!

P.S. I found that the best upgrade path is to CentOS.

Thomas Dineen





On 3/12/2020 1:12 PM, wi...@code-heads.com wrote:

From: Neil Thompson 
Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2020 3:09 PM
To: Community support for Fedora users 
Subject: Re: Reasons for staying on a old version ( Re: Prepping for upgrade)

Ralf,

With all due respect (i.e. none) I don't think your opinion is really necessary 
here - you've made your feelings clear over the last long while and I have to 
wonder what the heck you're still doing here if you hate the whole thing so 
much.  Surely there's another distribution that meets your strict requirements 
better than Fedora?

Neil,
A agree with you on this!!!  I have may not posted much but I have been working 
with Fedora since release 1!

Ralf,
Maybe you need to find another distro.

Regards,
Will (CodeHeads)
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RE: Reasons for staying on a old version ( Re: Prepping for upgrade)

[willw]

From: Neil Thompson  
Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2020 3:09 PM
To: Community support for Fedora users 
Subject: Re: Reasons for staying on a old version ( Re: Prepping for upgrade)

Ralf,

With all due respect (i.e. none) I don't think your opinion is really necessary 
here - you've made your feelings clear over the last long while and I have to 
wonder what the heck you're still doing here if you hate the whole thing so 
much.  Surely there's another distribution that meets your strict requirements 
better than Fedora?

Neil,
A agree with you on this!!!  I have may not posted much but I have been working 
with Fedora since release 1!

Ralf,
Maybe you need to find another distro. 

Regards,
Will (CodeHeads)
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Re: Reasons for staying on a old version ( Re: Prepping for upgrade)

[sixpack13]

On 12.03.20 20:08, Neil Thompson wrote:

Ralf,

With all due respect (i.e. none) I don't think your opinion is really 
necessary here - you've made your feelings clear over the last long 
while and I have to wonder what the heck you're still doing here if you 
hate the whole thing so much.  Surely there's another distribution that 
meets your strict requirements better than Fedora?




*ALL* opinions are necessary !

even the crucial let the world move forward.

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Re: Reasons for staying on a old version ( Re: Prepping for upgrade)

[Neil Thompson]

Ralf,

With all due respect (i.e. none) I don't think your opinion is really
necessary here - you've made your feelings clear over the last long while
and I have to wonder what the heck you're still doing here if you hate the
whole thing so much.  Surely there's another distribution that meets your
strict requirements better than Fedora?

On Thu, 12 Mar 2020 at 20:48, Ralf Corsepius  wrote:

> On 3/12/20 5:10 PM, sixpack13 wrote:
> > On 12.03.20 14:05, Ralf Corsepius wrote:
> >> On 3/11/20 11:31 PM, Christopher Marlow wrote:
> >>> I am just curious why people stay on old versions of Fedora like say
> >>> FC30 instead of upgrading to 31?
> >>
> >> Upgrading Fedora is a bit like "installing Win10" updates.
> >>
> >> That said, I usually wait for a couple of weeks before upgrading,
> >> because new Fedora releases tend to suffer from pretty nasty bugs or
> >> changes, which often get fixed or at least documented in the early
> >> phases after a release.
> >>
> >
> > VETO !!!
> >
> > I installed (upgraded to) F31 when it was Beta and used it for daily use.
> > I'm not sure, but I mean I did so with F30.
>
> Mere luck ;)
>
> Seriously, this is a case of YMMV. Throughout the years, I've
> experienced all kind upgrades. From entirely flawless to total disaster.
>
> > Win10 or general Win up{d,gr}ate is a russian roulette with default 5
> > (!) bullets.
> Exactly. Though Fedora upgrades in general are not as much russian
> roulette as MS update, they also carry a non-zero risk.
>
>  From my experience, the probability of success s significantly higher a
> couple of weeks later after release, when a Fedora release has seen some
> "exposure to the wild" and when maintainers had a chance to fix their bugs.
>
> > Even while Fedora documents their bugs your comparison is invalide.
> My point was the Russian roulette character. Fedora upgrades share the
> Russian roulette character with MS-Patch Tuesdays.
>
> Ralf
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Re: Reasons for staying on a old version ( Re: Prepping for upgrade)

[Ralf Corsepius]

On 3/12/20 5:10 PM, sixpack13 wrote:

On 12.03.20 14:05, Ralf Corsepius wrote:

On 3/11/20 11:31 PM, Christopher Marlow wrote:

I am just curious why people stay on old versions of Fedora like say
FC30 instead of upgrading to 31?


Upgrading Fedora is a bit like "installing Win10" updates.

That said, I usually wait for a couple of weeks before upgrading, 
because new Fedora releases tend to suffer from pretty nasty bugs or 
changes, which often get fixed or at least documented in the early 
phases after a release.




VETO !!!

I installed (upgraded to) F31 when it was Beta and used it for daily use.
I'm not sure, but I mean I did so with F30.


Mere luck ;)

Seriously, this is a case of YMMV. Throughout the years, I've 
experienced all kind upgrades. From entirely flawless to total disaster.


Win10 or general Win up{d,gr}ate is a russian roulette with default 5 
(!) bullets.
Exactly. Though Fedora upgrades in general are not as much russian 
roulette as MS update, they also carry a non-zero risk.


From my experience, the probability of success s significantly higher a 
couple of weeks later after release, when a Fedora release has seen some 
"exposure to the wild" and when maintainers had a chance to fix their bugs.



Even while Fedora documents their bugs your comparison is invalide.
My point was the Russian roulette character. Fedora upgrades share the 
Russian roulette character with MS-Patch Tuesdays.


Ralf
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Re: Reasons for staying on a old version ( Re: Prepping for upgrade)

[Neil Thompson]

Sorted out and working properly.  I have no problem admitting I'm letting
other people do the hard work now.  I've done my time.

On Thu, 12 Mar 2020 at 19:36, sixpack13  wrote:

> On 12.03.20 17:29, Neil Thompson wrote:
> > I generally wait a month or so before upgrading, just to make sure that
> > everything on the additional repos is sorted out.
> >
>
> sorted out from whom ?
>
> you're screw if everybody waits.
>
> Hopefully one helps sorting with release+1 in an VM or so
>
> => quicker sorting
>
> --
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Re: Reasons for staying on a old version ( Re: Prepping for upgrade)

[sixpack13]

On 12.03.20 17:29, Neil Thompson wrote:
I generally wait a month or so before upgrading, just to make sure that 
everything on the additional repos is sorted out.




sorted out from whom ?

you're screw if everybody waits.

Hopefully one helps sorting with release+1 in an VM or so

=> quicker sorting

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Re: Reasons for staying on a old version ( Re: Prepping for upgrade)

[Neil Thompson]

I generally wait a month or so before upgrading, just to make sure that
everything on the additional repos is sorted out.

Having said that, apart from the occasional oddity (like this time I had to
uninstall cmake-fedora before upgrading), the cli upgrade process has been
pretty much flawless over at least the past 5 releases.  Kudos to the
developers.

I've been using Red Hat stuff since Mother's Day Plus One, and both Fedora
and RHEL (CentOS) are in their best state ever.

On Thu, 12 Mar 2020 at 00:33, Christopher Marlow  wrote:

> I am just curious why people stay on old versions of Fedora like say
> FC30 instead of upgrading to 31? I am guessing after a new version of
> FC comes out, that the previous version is still supported for a
> limited time?
>
> Thanks,
> Chris
>
> Fedora 31 Workstation
> XFCE Desktop Enviroment.
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Re: problem with gimp while attempting to upgrade from f30 to f31 [Next]

[François Patte]

Le 12/03/2020 à 14:45, Ed Greshko a écrit :
> On 2020-03-12 21:04, François Patte wrote:
>> Le 12/03/2020 à 13:09, Ed Greshko a écrit :
>>> On 2020-03-12 18:53, François Patte wrote:
 Le 12/03/2020 à 11:30, François Patte a écrit :
> Bonjour,
>
> I want to upgrade my f30 system and:
>
> dnf system-upgrade download --refresh --releasever=31
>
> Adobe Systems Incorporated  4.7
> kB/s | 1.9 kB 00:00
> amdgpu-pro-local5.6
> MB/s |  74 kB 00:00
> Fedora Modular 31 - x86_64  982
> kB/s | 5.2 MB 00:05
> Fedora Modular 31 - x86_64 - Updates1.0
> MB/s | 4.0 MB 00:03
> Fedora 31 - x86_64 - Updates1.2
> MB/s |  22 MB 00:18
> Fedora 31 - x86_64  1.2
> MB/s |  71 MB 00:57
> google-chrome20
> kB/s | 3.5 kB 00:00
> RPM Fusion for Fedora 31 - Free - Updates   262
> kB/s | 387 kB 00:01
> RPM Fusion for Fedora 31 - Free 557
> kB/s | 663 kB 00:01
> RPM Fusion for Fedora 31 - Nonfree - Updates111
> kB/s |  67 kB 00:00
> RPM Fusion for Fedora 31 - Nonfree  336
> kB/s | 241 kB 00:00
> terminate called after throwing an instance of
> 'libdnf::ModulePackageContainer::EnableMultipleStreamsException'
>   what():  Cannot enable multiple streams for module 'gimp'
> Abandon (core dumped)
>
> What's this? And what can I do?
 I tried to remove gimp  and proceed but:

 RPM Fusion for Fedora 31 - Nonfree
49 kB/s |  10 kB 00:00
 terminate called after throwing an instance of
 'libdnf::ModulePackageContainer::EnableMultipleStreamsException'
   what():  Cannot enable multiple streams for module 'maven'
 Abandon (core dumped)

 What is this module "maven"?
>>> Well, for that you just do "dnf info maven".
>> maven is not installed
>>
>>> But, what is the output of
>>>
>>> dnf module list --enabled
>> Fedora Modular 30 - x86_64
>> NameStream   ProfilesSummary
>>
>> gimp2.10 [d][e]  default [d], devel  GIMP
>>
>> maven   3.5 [d][e]   default [d] Java project
>> management and project comprehension tool
>> scala   2.10 [d][e]  default [d] A hybrid
>> functional/object-oriented language for the JVM
>>
>> Fedora Modular 30 - x86_64 - Updates
>> NameStream   ProfilesSummary
>>
>> gimp2.10 [d][e]  default [d], devel  GIMP
>>
>> maven   3.5 [d][e]   default [d] Java project
>> management and project comprehension tool
>>
>> And?
> 
> Try doing
> 
> dnf module reset maven
> dnf module reset scala

Thank You! That's done the trick.

Why are these modules installed and activated? It is the first time I
have encounter this problem.

-- 
François Patte
UFR de mathématiques et informatique
Laboratoire CNRS MAP5, UMR 8145
Université Paris Descartes
45, rue des Saints Pères
F-75270 Paris Cedex 06
Tél. +33 (0)6 7892 5822
http://www.math-info.univ-paris5.fr/~patte
FSF
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Re: Reasons for staying on a old version ( Re: Prepping for upgrade)

[sixpack13]

On 12.03.20 14:05, Ralf Corsepius wrote:

On 3/11/20 11:31 PM, Christopher Marlow wrote:

I am just curious why people stay on old versions of Fedora like say
FC30 instead of upgrading to 31?


Upgrading Fedora is a bit like "installing Win10" updates.

That said, I usually wait for a couple of weeks before upgrading, 
because new Fedora releases tend to suffer from pretty nasty bugs or 
changes, which often get fixed or at least documented in the early 
phases after a release.




VETO !!!

I installed (upgraded to) F31 when it was Beta and used it for daily use.
I'm not sure, but I mean I did so with F30.

I do nothing special on my box, but all needs to run and it did (at 
least in the past)



Win10 or general Win up{d,gr}ate is a russian roulette with default 5 
(!) bullets.


And with Win10 M$ loads your gun again and again, every 6 month you'll 
get new bullets, maybe 6 this time. [1]


"Good night and good luck".


Even while Fedora documents their bugs your comparison is invalide.


M$ declares their Beta's as release (and on top of it they want to get 
paid (Money, private data).


Fedora declares their beta's as beta's and they are - maybe not for 
everyone - useable as release.


that's just my view over the last ~ 20 years.

your mileage may vary...


[1]
cause I'm not convinced M$ is able to calculate (apart dollars):

try to calculate 2 x 4 + 1 x 4 with their buildin calculator (win7, 8.1, 
10 ?) !


=> 36

the answer of all questions ! :-)



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Re: Reasons for staying on a old version ( Re: Prepping for upgrade)

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Thu, 2020-03-12 at 14:05 +0100, Ralf Corsepius wrote:
> On 3/11/20 11:31 PM, Christopher Marlow wrote:
> > I am just curious why people stay on old versions of Fedora like say
> > FC30 instead of upgrading to 31?
> 
> Upgrading Fedora is a bit like "installing Win10" updates.

I'd say it's almost entirely unlike installing Windows 10 updates. For
one thing, you can choose when (and if) to do it, and for another you
update everything (system, user software, libraries etc.) at the same
time and in the same way, one of the main advantages of a repo-based
system which Windows doesn't have.

poc
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Re: problem with gimp while attempting to upgrade from f30 to f31 [Next]

[Ed Greshko]

On 2020-03-12 21:04, François Patte wrote:
> Le 12/03/2020 à 13:09, Ed Greshko a écrit :
>> On 2020-03-12 18:53, François Patte wrote:
>>> Le 12/03/2020 à 11:30, François Patte a écrit :
 Bonjour,

 I want to upgrade my f30 system and:

 dnf system-upgrade download --refresh --releasever=31

 Adobe Systems Incorporated  4.7
 kB/s | 1.9 kB 00:00
 amdgpu-pro-local5.6
 MB/s |  74 kB 00:00
 Fedora Modular 31 - x86_64  982
 kB/s | 5.2 MB 00:05
 Fedora Modular 31 - x86_64 - Updates1.0
 MB/s | 4.0 MB 00:03
 Fedora 31 - x86_64 - Updates1.2
 MB/s |  22 MB 00:18
 Fedora 31 - x86_64  1.2
 MB/s |  71 MB 00:57
 google-chrome20
 kB/s | 3.5 kB 00:00
 RPM Fusion for Fedora 31 - Free - Updates   262
 kB/s | 387 kB 00:01
 RPM Fusion for Fedora 31 - Free 557
 kB/s | 663 kB 00:01
 RPM Fusion for Fedora 31 - Nonfree - Updates111
 kB/s |  67 kB 00:00
 RPM Fusion for Fedora 31 - Nonfree  336
 kB/s | 241 kB 00:00
 terminate called after throwing an instance of
 'libdnf::ModulePackageContainer::EnableMultipleStreamsException'
   what():  Cannot enable multiple streams for module 'gimp'
 Abandon (core dumped)

 What's this? And what can I do?
>>> I tried to remove gimp  and proceed but:
>>>
>>> RPM Fusion for Fedora 31 - Nonfree
>>>49 kB/s |  10 kB 00:00
>>> terminate called after throwing an instance of
>>> 'libdnf::ModulePackageContainer::EnableMultipleStreamsException'
>>>   what():  Cannot enable multiple streams for module 'maven'
>>> Abandon (core dumped)
>>>
>>> What is this module "maven"?
>> Well, for that you just do "dnf info maven".
> maven is not installed
>
>> But, what is the output of
>>
>> dnf module list --enabled
> Fedora Modular 30 - x86_64
> NameStream   ProfilesSummary
>
> gimp2.10 [d][e]  default [d], devel  GIMP
>
> maven   3.5 [d][e]   default [d] Java project
> management and project comprehension tool
> scala   2.10 [d][e]  default [d] A hybrid
> functional/object-oriented language for the JVM
>
> Fedora Modular 30 - x86_64 - Updates
> NameStream   ProfilesSummary
>
> gimp2.10 [d][e]  default [d], devel  GIMP
>
> maven   3.5 [d][e]   default [d] Java project
> management and project comprehension tool
>
> And?

Try doing

dnf module reset maven
dnf module reset scala

and then try either removing gimp or upgrading


-- 
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Re: Reasons for staying on a old version ( Re: Prepping for upgrade)

[Ralf Corsepius]

On 3/11/20 11:31 PM, Christopher Marlow wrote:

I am just curious why people stay on old versions of Fedora like say
FC30 instead of upgrading to 31?


Upgrading Fedora is a bit like "installing Win10" updates.

That said, I usually wait for a couple of weeks before upgrading, 
because new Fedora releases tend to suffer from pretty nasty bugs or 
changes, which often get fixed or at least documented in the early 
phases after a release.



I am guessing after a new version of
FC comes out, that the previous version is still supported for a
limited time?

Yes, typically 1/2 year + 1 month.

Ralf
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Re: problem with gimp while attempting to upgrade from f30 to f31 [Next]

[François Patte]

Le 12/03/2020 à 13:09, Ed Greshko a écrit :
> On 2020-03-12 18:53, François Patte wrote:
>> Le 12/03/2020 à 11:30, François Patte a écrit :
>>> Bonjour,
>>>
>>> I want to upgrade my f30 system and:
>>>
>>> dnf system-upgrade download --refresh --releasever=31
>>>
>>> Adobe Systems Incorporated  4.7
>>> kB/s | 1.9 kB 00:00
>>> amdgpu-pro-local5.6
>>> MB/s |  74 kB 00:00
>>> Fedora Modular 31 - x86_64  982
>>> kB/s | 5.2 MB 00:05
>>> Fedora Modular 31 - x86_64 - Updates1.0
>>> MB/s | 4.0 MB 00:03
>>> Fedora 31 - x86_64 - Updates1.2
>>> MB/s |  22 MB 00:18
>>> Fedora 31 - x86_64  1.2
>>> MB/s |  71 MB 00:57
>>> google-chrome20
>>> kB/s | 3.5 kB 00:00
>>> RPM Fusion for Fedora 31 - Free - Updates   262
>>> kB/s | 387 kB 00:01
>>> RPM Fusion for Fedora 31 - Free 557
>>> kB/s | 663 kB 00:01
>>> RPM Fusion for Fedora 31 - Nonfree - Updates111
>>> kB/s |  67 kB 00:00
>>> RPM Fusion for Fedora 31 - Nonfree  336
>>> kB/s | 241 kB 00:00
>>> terminate called after throwing an instance of
>>> 'libdnf::ModulePackageContainer::EnableMultipleStreamsException'
>>>   what():  Cannot enable multiple streams for module 'gimp'
>>> Abandon (core dumped)
>>>
>>> What's this? And what can I do?
>> I tried to remove gimp  and proceed but:
>>
>> RPM Fusion for Fedora 31 - Nonfree
>>49 kB/s |  10 kB 00:00
>> terminate called after throwing an instance of
>> 'libdnf::ModulePackageContainer::EnableMultipleStreamsException'
>>   what():  Cannot enable multiple streams for module 'maven'
>> Abandon (core dumped)
>>
>> What is this module "maven"?
> 
> Well, for that you just do "dnf info maven".

maven is not installed

> 
> But, what is the output of
> 
> dnf module list --enabled

Fedora Modular 30 - x86_64
NameStream   ProfilesSummary

gimp2.10 [d][e]  default [d], devel  GIMP

maven   3.5 [d][e]   default [d] Java project
management and project comprehension tool
scala   2.10 [d][e]  default [d] A hybrid
functional/object-oriented language for the JVM

Fedora Modular 30 - x86_64 - Updates
NameStream   ProfilesSummary

gimp2.10 [d][e]  default [d], devel  GIMP

maven   3.5 [d][e]   default [d] Java project
management and project comprehension tool

And?

-- 
François Patte
UFR de mathématiques et informatique
Laboratoire CNRS MAP5, UMR 8145
Université Paris Descartes
45, rue des Saints Pères
F-75270 Paris Cedex 06
Tél. +33 (0)6 7892 5822
http://www.math-info.univ-paris5.fr/~patte
FSF
https://www.fsf.org/blogs/community/presenting-shoetool-happy-holidays-from-the-fsf



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Re: Reasons for staying on a old version ( Re: Prepping for upgrade)

[Tim via users]

Tim:
>> Like many others, I have two reasons for not being on the latest
>> release:  I don't wish to do lots of bug resolving.  And I don't
>> want to radically change my OS that often.

Patrick O'Callaghan:
> Staying on N-1 doesn't reduce the frequency of updates. N-1 changes
> just as often as N.

I tend to only install every second release.  There's some amount of
overlap before the 3rd release back gets ignored.
 
-- 
 
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Re: problem with gimp while attempting to upgrade from f30 to f31 [Next]

[Ed Greshko]

On 2020-03-12 18:53, François Patte wrote:
> Le 12/03/2020 à 11:30, François Patte a écrit :
>> Bonjour,
>>
>> I want to upgrade my f30 system and:
>>
>> dnf system-upgrade download --refresh --releasever=31
>>
>> Adobe Systems Incorporated  4.7
>> kB/s | 1.9 kB 00:00
>> amdgpu-pro-local5.6
>> MB/s |  74 kB 00:00
>> Fedora Modular 31 - x86_64  982
>> kB/s | 5.2 MB 00:05
>> Fedora Modular 31 - x86_64 - Updates1.0
>> MB/s | 4.0 MB 00:03
>> Fedora 31 - x86_64 - Updates1.2
>> MB/s |  22 MB 00:18
>> Fedora 31 - x86_64  1.2
>> MB/s |  71 MB 00:57
>> google-chrome20
>> kB/s | 3.5 kB 00:00
>> RPM Fusion for Fedora 31 - Free - Updates   262
>> kB/s | 387 kB 00:01
>> RPM Fusion for Fedora 31 - Free 557
>> kB/s | 663 kB 00:01
>> RPM Fusion for Fedora 31 - Nonfree - Updates111
>> kB/s |  67 kB 00:00
>> RPM Fusion for Fedora 31 - Nonfree  336
>> kB/s | 241 kB 00:00
>> terminate called after throwing an instance of
>> 'libdnf::ModulePackageContainer::EnableMultipleStreamsException'
>>   what():  Cannot enable multiple streams for module 'gimp'
>> Abandon (core dumped)
>>
>> What's this? And what can I do?
> I tried to remove gimp  and proceed but:
>
> RPM Fusion for Fedora 31 - Nonfree
>49 kB/s |  10 kB 00:00
> terminate called after throwing an instance of
> 'libdnf::ModulePackageContainer::EnableMultipleStreamsException'
>   what():  Cannot enable multiple streams for module 'maven'
> Abandon (core dumped)
>
> What is this module "maven"?

Well, for that you just do "dnf info maven".

But, what is the output of

dnf module list --enabled



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Re: Reasons for staying on a old version ( Re: Prepping for upgrade)

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Thu, 2020-03-12 at 15:36 +1030, Tim via users wrote:
> On Wed, 2020-03-11 at 17:31 -0500, Christopher Marlow wrote:
> > I am just curious why people stay on old versions of Fedora like say
> > FC30 instead of upgrading to 31? I am guessing after a new version of
> > FC comes out, that the previous version is still supported for a
> > limited time?
> 
> Yes, there's two releases being supported at the time.
> 
> Like many others, I have two reasons for not being on the latest
> release:  I don't wish to do lots of bug resolving.  And I don't want
> to radically change my OS that often.

Staying on N-1 doesn't reduce the frequency of updates. N-1 changes
just as often as N.

poc
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[389-users] Password lockout not working

[Todor Petkov]

Hello,

I configured password lockout policy for account (5 retries, 30
minutes lockout), but if the user tries to log with bad password,
passwordRetryCount is not being increased (I am tailing the audit
log).

Can someone point me, what am I missing here? Versions of packages:

389-admin-console-doc-1.1.12-1.el7.noarch
389-ds-base-1.3.9.1-12.el7_7.x86_64
389-adminutil-1.1.22-2.el7.x86_64
389-ds-base-snmp-1.3.9.1-12.el7_7.x86_64
389-admin-1.1.46-1.el7.x86_64
389-admin-console-1.1.12-1.el7.noarch
389-ds-console-doc-1.2.16-1.el7.noarch
389-ds-1.2.2-6.el7.noarch
389-console-1.1.19-6.el7.noarch
389-ds-console-1.2.16-1.el7.noarch
389-dsgw-1.1.11-5.el7.x86_64
389-ds-base-libs-1.3.9.1-12.el7_7.x86_64

Thanks,
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Re: problem with gimp while attempting to upgrade from f30 to f31 [Next]

[François Patte]

Le 12/03/2020 à 11:30, François Patte a écrit :
> Bonjour,
> 
> I want to upgrade my f30 system and:
> 
> dnf system-upgrade download --refresh --releasever=31
> 
> Adobe Systems Incorporated  4.7
> kB/s | 1.9 kB 00:00
> amdgpu-pro-local5.6
> MB/s |  74 kB 00:00
> Fedora Modular 31 - x86_64  982
> kB/s | 5.2 MB 00:05
> Fedora Modular 31 - x86_64 - Updates1.0
> MB/s | 4.0 MB 00:03
> Fedora 31 - x86_64 - Updates1.2
> MB/s |  22 MB 00:18
> Fedora 31 - x86_64  1.2
> MB/s |  71 MB 00:57
> google-chrome20
> kB/s | 3.5 kB 00:00
> RPM Fusion for Fedora 31 - Free - Updates   262
> kB/s | 387 kB 00:01
> RPM Fusion for Fedora 31 - Free 557
> kB/s | 663 kB 00:01
> RPM Fusion for Fedora 31 - Nonfree - Updates111
> kB/s |  67 kB 00:00
> RPM Fusion for Fedora 31 - Nonfree  336
> kB/s | 241 kB 00:00
> terminate called after throwing an instance of
> 'libdnf::ModulePackageContainer::EnableMultipleStreamsException'
>   what():  Cannot enable multiple streams for module 'gimp'
> Abandon (core dumped)
> 
> What's this? And what can I do?

I tried to remove gimp  and proceed but:

RPM Fusion for Fedora 31 - Nonfree
   49 kB/s |  10 kB 00:00
terminate called after throwing an instance of
'libdnf::ModulePackageContainer::EnableMultipleStreamsException'
  what():  Cannot enable multiple streams for module 'maven'
Abandon (core dumped)

What is this module "maven"?

-- 
François Patte
UFR de mathématiques et informatique
Laboratoire CNRS MAP5, UMR 8145
Université Paris Descartes
45, rue des Saints Pères
F-75270 Paris Cedex 06
Tél. +33 (0)6 7892 5822
http://www.math-info.univ-paris5.fr/~patte
FSF
https://www.fsf.org/blogs/community/presenting-shoetool-happy-holidays-from-the-fsf



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Re: Reasons for staying on a old version ( Re: Prepping for upgrade)

[George N. White III]

On Wed, 11 Mar 2020 at 19:33, Christopher Marlow  wrote:

> I am just curious why people stay on old versions of Fedora like say
> FC30 instead of upgrading to 31? I am guessing after a new version of
> FC comes out, that the previous version is still supported for a
> limited time?
>

There are always 2 supported versions.   Linux is a community effort, so
everyone benefits from the work of people who test new releases and report
any problems.  There is always a period of pre-release testing that helps
minimize the problems in new releases.

If you are using Fedora N for some big project when N+1 is released, you
want to put off updating until you reach a good stopping point.  If you are
using Fedora as your primary desktop environment and it is working well,
then other things may be more important to you than upgrading.   There are
ways to "check out" a new version (Live boot or VM) to see if upgrading is
worthwhile.   Live boot may reveal hardware issues (such as missing drivers
for older kit) that you want to address before upgrading.

There are people whose primary interest is development, documentation,
and/or workflows based on a particular application.   It is important to be
looking ahead to see where newer versions of key libraries and other
software may require changes to the application and related workflows.
Historically, applications often needed to provide capabilities that were
not available in older linux distros.   Over time, these capabilities are
appearing in distros, which means applications can be simplified or can
focus on other improvements.   Fedora releases are well suited to this sort
of work.

-- 
George N. White III
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problem with gimp while attempting to upgrade from f30 to f31

[François Patte]

Bonjour,

I want to upgrade my f30 system and:

dnf system-upgrade download --refresh --releasever=31

Adobe Systems Incorporated  4.7
kB/s | 1.9 kB 00:00
amdgpu-pro-local5.6
MB/s |  74 kB 00:00
Fedora Modular 31 - x86_64  982
kB/s | 5.2 MB 00:05
Fedora Modular 31 - x86_64 - Updates1.0
MB/s | 4.0 MB 00:03
Fedora 31 - x86_64 - Updates1.2
MB/s |  22 MB 00:18
Fedora 31 - x86_64  1.2
MB/s |  71 MB 00:57
google-chrome20
kB/s | 3.5 kB 00:00
RPM Fusion for Fedora 31 - Free - Updates   262
kB/s | 387 kB 00:01
RPM Fusion for Fedora 31 - Free 557
kB/s | 663 kB 00:01
RPM Fusion for Fedora 31 - Nonfree - Updates111
kB/s |  67 kB 00:00
RPM Fusion for Fedora 31 - Nonfree  336
kB/s | 241 kB 00:00
terminate called after throwing an instance of
'libdnf::ModulePackageContainer::EnableMultipleStreamsException'
  what():  Cannot enable multiple streams for module 'gimp'
Abandon (core dumped)

What's this? And what can I do?

Thank you?

-- 
François Patte
UFR de mathématiques et informatique
Laboratoire CNRS MAP5, UMR 8145
Université Paris Descartes
45, rue des Saints Pères
F-75270 Paris Cedex 06
Tél. +33 (0)6 7892 5822
http://www.math-info.univ-paris5.fr/~patte
FSF
https://www.fsf.org/blogs/community/presenting-shoetool-happy-holidays-from-the-fsf



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Re: prep. for upgrade.

[Tim via users]

Just a comment:  If you don't put a blank line between your quotes and
your replies, they're joined together, looking like one big quote.

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