Re: Nouveau Blacklisting not in /etc/default/grub

[Samuel Sieb]

On 10/30/22 19:26, Stephen Morris wrote:



On 31/10/22 09:12, Samuel Sieb wrote:

On 10/30/22 14:54, Stephen Morris wrote:

         I then ran lsmod | grep -i nvidia
         Does the following display from lsmod indicate that the 
nvidia module has not installed properly? I don't have the drm module 
and the blacklisting of nouveau and the nvidia modeset parameter have 
not been added to the kernel parameters in /etc/default/grub, or is 
it that I did not force a rebuild of the kernel module and I did not 
force an update of the boot image?


lsmod | grep -i nvidia
nvidia_drm 73728  32
nvidia_modeset   1187840  65 nvidia_drm
nvidia_uvm   1318912  0
nvidia 55242752  2950 nvidia_uvm,nvidia_modeset


Which drm module don't you have?  The listing shows it.  Also, there 
are no nouveau modules listed, so the blacklisting is working.


/etc/default/grub is only used if you fully regenerate the grub.cfg file.
I use /etc/default/grub as I always fully regenerate the grub.cfg file 
via grub2-mkconfig.
Normally the install of akmod-nvidia, kmod-nvidia put the blacklisting 
of nouveau and the nvidia modeset parameters in /etc/default/grub, but 
this time they didn't, which is the first time I've seen that issue. I'm 
also not sure how the nvidia driver has been loaded when there are no 
kernel parameters to do so.


The kernel module will get auto-loaded because it matches the hardware. 
There's probably a blacklist file in /etc/modprobe.d.


The reason I was querying the display from lsmod is that the web link 
where I got the instructions from for updating the secure boot data for 
fedora showed sample lsmod output as evidence that the signing and 
rebuild had worked correctly, and it was the last two lines in the 
display that I'm querying whether I should have as well (the i915 is not 
relevant to me)?


|nvidia_drm 73728 1 nvidia_modeset 1150976 2 nvidia_drm nvidia 36954112 
129 nvidia_modeset drm_kms_helper 311296 2 nvidia_drm,i915 drm 630784 28 
drm_kms_helper,nvidia,nvidia_drm,i915,ttm |


It looks like they have dual graphics.  Assuming your display is 
working, it's fine.

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Re: Can I see an iMac drive with a Live USB?

[ToddAndMargo via users]

On 10/30/22 17:55, Felix Miata wrote:

I use ordinary cheap sticky duct tape




You know what, since these are being tossed,
why not!
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Re: Nouveau Blacklisting not in /etc/default/grub

[Stephen Morris]

On 31/10/22 09:12, Samuel Sieb wrote:

On 10/30/22 14:54, Stephen Morris wrote:

         I then ran lsmod | grep -i nvidia
         Does the following display from lsmod indicate that the 
nvidia module has not installed properly? I don't have the drm module 
and the blacklisting of nouveau and the nvidia modeset parameter have 
not been added to the kernel parameters in /etc/default/grub, or is 
it that I did not force a rebuild of the kernel module and I did not 
force an update of the boot image?


lsmod | grep -i nvidia
nvidia_drm 73728  32
nvidia_modeset   1187840  65 nvidia_drm
nvidia_uvm   1318912  0
nvidia 55242752  2950 nvidia_uvm,nvidia_modeset


Which drm module don't you have?  The listing shows it.  Also, there 
are no nouveau modules listed, so the blacklisting is working.


/etc/default/grub is only used if you fully regenerate the grub.cfg file.
I use /etc/default/grub as I always fully regenerate the grub.cfg file 
via grub2-mkconfig.
Normally the install of akmod-nvidia, kmod-nvidia put the blacklisting 
of nouveau and the nvidia modeset parameters in /etc/default/grub, but 
this time they didn't, which is the first time I've seen that issue. I'm 
also not sure how the nvidia driver has been loaded when there are no 
kernel parameters to do so.
The reason I was querying the display from lsmod is that the web link 
where I got the instructions from for updating the secure boot data for 
fedora showed sample lsmod output as evidence that the signing and 
rebuild had worked correctly, and it was the last two lines in the 
display that I'm querying whether I should have as well (the i915 is not 
relevant to me)?


|nvidia_drm 73728 1 nvidia_modeset 1150976 2 nvidia_drm nvidia 36954112 
129 nvidia_modeset drm_kms_helper 311296 2 nvidia_drm,i915 drm 630784 28 
drm_kms_helper,nvidia,nvidia_drm,i915,ttm |


|regards,|
|Steve|
||

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Re: Can I see an iMac drive with a Live USB?

[ToddAndMargo via users]

On 10/30/22 17:55, Felix Miata wrote:

ToddAndMargo via users composed on 2022-10-30 16:51 (UTC-0700):


iMacs I will need a glass puller, etc..


I use ordinary cheap sticky duct tape. All the tape or pullers do is overpower
magnets that hold the glass in place. Suction cup pullers are cheap and less 
messy
than cleaning tape residue from glass.

Booting Knoppix & openSUSE on my 2007 iMac is little bigger deal than on an
ordinary PC, mostly just different startup keystrokes instead of F11, F12 or
whatever to boot from USB instead of internal HD. The fun part is never knowing
which Grub from which Linux installation is going to provide the menu for any
particular HD boot. Mac firmware likes vexing Linux users by playing puzzling
games that drive many to use various alternatives to Grub.

Newer Macs can reinstall MacOS directly off the internet after a drive 
replacement
or wipe. This probably means simply wiping a partition table wouldn't be enough
for real protection against data recovery, so don't bet anything less than a 
full
wipe is nearly as good as drive removal.




I have used that BIOS reinstall several times
on corrupted Macs.  It never worked.
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Re: Can I see an iMac drive with a Live USB?

[Felix Miata]

ToddAndMargo via users composed on 2022-10-30 16:51 (UTC-0700):

> iMacs I will need a glass puller, etc..

I use ordinary cheap sticky duct tape. All the tape or pullers do is overpower
magnets that hold the glass in place. Suction cup pullers are cheap and less 
messy
than cleaning tape residue from glass.

Booting Knoppix & openSUSE on my 2007 iMac is little bigger deal than on an
ordinary PC, mostly just different startup keystrokes instead of F11, F12 or
whatever to boot from USB instead of internal HD. The fun part is never knowing
which Grub from which Linux installation is going to provide the menu for any
particular HD boot. Mac firmware likes vexing Linux users by playing puzzling
games that drive many to use various alternatives to Grub.

Newer Macs can reinstall MacOS directly off the internet after a drive 
replacement
or wipe. This probably means simply wiping a partition table wouldn't be enough
for real protection against data recovery, so don't bet anything less than a 
full
wipe is nearly as good as drive removal.
-- 
Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion,
based on faith, not based on science.

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata
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Re: Can I see an iMac drive with a Live USB?

[ToddAndMargo via users]

On 10/30/22 17:22, Slade Watkins via users wrote:

On 10/30/22 7:51 PM, ToddAndMargo via users wrote:

Hi All,

I have an upcoming appointment with a customer
who wants a number of his old computers
(mostly iMacs) removed from service.

With other computers, if I can remove the
drives, I just remove them and give them
to the customer to hit with a hammer.

But iMacs I will need a glass puller, etc..

Hey,

UGH, I wish Apple just let you get access from the back and replace the
drive yourself. Alas, they "need" (read: want) "a trained professional"
to do it.


And they wear the proper, Apple approved Micky Mouse
ears whilst doing it.




So what I usually do when I can not get the
drive out is to boot into a Linux (Fedora)
Live USB and run

  # dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sd[x]


Where sd[x] is the drive to be blanked.
This will write 0x00H across every section
of the drive.

Then give it to the computer local charity used
computer store (or the dumpster)

"dev" only has to see the drive.  I do not
need or want to be able to mount or read
the drive, just see it. dd is a block
device and does not care what format is.

Do any of you guys know if I will be able
to see the drive on a iMac?



Not an iMac, but I've been able to see the drive of my (Late 2014) Mac
mini in my live environment. Should come right up in the disk utility,
unless something has changed or your client has it configured differently.

LMK if you have any other questions and I'd be willing to test them for you.

Cheers,

-srw



Thank you!  Sound like I will be able to
accomplish it.
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Re: Can I see an iMac drive with a Live USB?

[Slade Watkins via users]

On 10/30/22 7:51 PM, ToddAndMargo via users wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> I have an upcoming appointment with a customer
> who wants a number of his old computers
> (mostly iMacs) removed from service.
> 
> With other computers, if I can remove the
> drives, I just remove them and give them
> to the customer to hit with a hammer.
> 
> But iMacs I will need a glass puller, etc..
Hey,

UGH, I wish Apple just let you get access from the back and replace the
drive yourself. Alas, they "need" (read: want) "a trained professional"
to do it.

> So what I usually do when I can not get the
> drive out is to boot into a Linux (Fedora)
> Live USB and run
> 
>  # dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sd[x]
> 
> 
> Where sd[x] is the drive to be blanked.
> This will write 0x00H across every section
> of the drive.
> 
> Then give it to the computer local charity used
> computer store (or the dumpster)
> 
> "dev" only has to see the drive.  I do not
> need or want to be able to mount or read
> the drive, just see it. dd is a block
> device and does not care what format is.
> 
> Do any of you guys know if I will be able
> to see the drive on a iMac?
> 

Not an iMac, but I've been able to see the drive of my (Late 2014) Mac
mini in my live environment. Should come right up in the disk utility,
unless something has changed or your client has it configured differently.

LMK if you have any other questions and I'd be willing to test them for you.

Cheers,

-srw
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Can I see an iMac drive with a Live USB?

[ToddAndMargo via users]

Hi All,

I have an upcoming appointment with a customer
who wants a number of his old computers
(mostly iMacs) removed from service.

With other computers, if I can remove the
drives, I just remove them and give them
to the customer to hit with a hammer.

But iMacs I will need a glass puller, etc..
So what I usually do when I can not get the
drive out is to boot into a Linux (Fedora)
Live USB and run

# dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sd[x]


Where sd[x] is the drive to be blanked.
This will write 0x00H across every section
of the drive.

Then give it to the computer local charity used
computer store (or the dumpster)

"dev" only has to see the drive.  I do not
need or want to be able to mount or read
the drive, just see it. dd is a block
device and does not care what format is.

Do any of you guys know if I will be able
to see the drive on a iMac?

Many thanks,
-T

--
~~
Computers are like air conditioners.
They malfunction when you open windows
~~
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Re: New kernel install had issues. (6.0.5-200.fc36.x86_64)

[Slade Watkins via users]

On 10/30/22 4:33 PM, Barry Scott wrote:
> 
>> On 30 Oct 2022, at 16:54, Doug H.  wrote:
>>
>> Today was
>> the big kernel jump to 6.x kernel.

As someone who tests 6.0 stable regularly, I can *assure you* it's
nothing major.

> No it is not a big jump it the one after 5.19.
> After 20 minors Linux runs out of fingers and toes and bumps the major.
> So after 6.19 with me 7.0 for example.
Exactly!
The "major number" means *nothing*, even Linus says that himself _a lot_.

-srw
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Re: Fwd: [Undeliverable: Re: Mailing lists and Discourse]

[Slade Watkins via users]

On 10/30/22 3:57 PM, Wolfgang Pfeiffer wrote:
> no such -owner or similar addresses seem to be available in the
> mail-headers sent to this list.

I believe it's .

-srw
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Re: [OT] Xorg, X11, Wayland

[Neal Becker]

On Sun, Oct 30, 2022 at 11:38 AM Jonathan Billings 
wrote:

> On Oct 30, 2022, at 07:42, Neal Becker  wrote:
>
> I have been watching Wayland with interest since it's beginning.  There is
> still one thing which prevents me from switching.  I need to attend remote
> meetings, using teams, zoom, etc.  I always prefer to use the web
> interfaces for those, through chrome (firefox won't work on teams).  If I
> use wayland and I try to share a window, only some windows are available to
> share - presumably the native X11 ones are not available choices.  Until
> this is resolved it's X11 for me.
>
>
> I’ve shared individual Wayland windows through Chrome and Google Meet:
>
> 1. ⁠Go to chrome://flags
> 2. ⁠Search "Preferred Ozone platform"
> 3. ⁠Set it to "Wayland"
> 4. ⁠Restart Chrome
>
> You can also launch Chrome with: --ozone-platform=wayland
>
> When you go to share, it’ll ask you for permission and you can choose
> whole screen or certain windows.  It might be something that requires
> GNOME’s mutter though, I haven’t tried any other Wayland-compatible desktop
> environment. I’ve used it with Zoom too, although not recently since my job
> requires Meet.
>
> --
> Jonathan Billings
>

Thanks, but just tried it - doesn't work.  I only see one window available
to share.  I have also a konsole window and okular running, but these are
not shown as choices under share window.  I started chrome with
--ozone-platorm=wayland in a waland-plasma session.  Then I started google
meet from this chrome browser.  I believe only wayland-native windows show
as choices in the 'share window'.  Interesting that emacs shows up - it is
recent 28.1.91 (a pre-release of 28.2 I guess).  Tried opening several
other apps, including firefox with MOZ_ENABLE_WAYLAND=1, but none show as
choices to share except emacs.
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Re: New kernel install had issues. (6.0.5-200.fc36.x86_64)

[Samuel Sieb]

On 10/30/22 10:06, Doug Herr wrote:

Let this be a reminder to people upgrading over many version of Fedora. It does 
not hurt to update your grub boot sector every now and then. Maybe worth doing 
after each major Fedora version update.


This only applies if you are still using legacy BIOS boot, which is 
quite rare now.

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Re: Nouveau Blacklisting not in /etc/default/grub

[Samuel Sieb]

On 10/30/22 14:54, Stephen Morris wrote:

             I then ran lsmod | grep -i nvidia
             Does the following display from lsmod indicate that the 
nvidia module has not installed properly? I don't have the drm module 
and the blacklisting of nouveau and the nvidia modeset parameter have 
not been added to the kernel parameters in /etc/default/grub, or is it 
that I did not force a rebuild of the kernel module and I did not force 
an update of the boot image?


lsmod | grep -i nvidia
nvidia_drm 73728  32
nvidia_modeset   1187840  65 nvidia_drm
nvidia_uvm   1318912  0
nvidia 55242752  2950 nvidia_uvm,nvidia_modeset


Which drm module don't you have?  The listing shows it.  Also, there are 
no nouveau modules listed, so the blacklisting is working.


/etc/default/grub is only used if you fully regenerate the grub.cfg file.
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Re: New kernel install had issues. (6.0.5-200.fc36.x86_64)

[Go Canes]

On Sun, Oct 30, 2022 at 1:00 PM Tom Horsley  wrote:
>
> On Sun, 30 Oct 2022 09:54:28 -0700
> Doug H. wrote:
>
> > Everything seems to be working, so I don't need any help, but wanted to
> > report this just in case.
>
> As an additional report, I did a dnf update this morning, got the same
> kernel, and had no problems at all. Must be one of those things mankind
> was not meant to know :-).

And an additional report - updated 7 systems this morning - no
apparent issues so far.
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Re: Nouveau Blacklisting not in /etc/default/grub

[Joe Zeff]

On 10/30/2022 03:54 PM, Stephen Morris wrote:

Then once in KDE I reinstalled akmod-nvidia and kmod-nvidia


Installing both akmod-nvidia and kmod-nvidia is redundant.  At boot, 
akmod-nvidia checks to see if you have the appropriate kmod for the 
running kernel. If so, it exits; if not, it builds it.  The only time 
it's going to make a difference is in the fairly rare case that the new 
kmod-nvidia is delayed.

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Nouveau Blacklisting not in /etc/default/grub

[Stephen Morris]

Hi,
    Having secureboot in the bios set to "Windows Mode" I have manually 
signed the nvidia drivers after uninstalling akmod-nvidia and 
kmod-nvidia and all the associated packages.

    I then:
             generated a signing key using kmodgenca
            ran mokutil to import the generated key
            rebooted
            And at the MOK Manager interface I enrolled the key and 
rebooted again

            Then once in KDE I reinstalled akmod-nvidia and kmod-nvidia
            I then ran lsmod | grep -i nvidia
            Does the following display from lsmod indicate that the 
nvidia module has not installed properly? I don't have the drm module 
and the blacklisting of nouveau and the nvidia modeset parameter have 
not been added to the kernel parameters in /etc/default/grub, or is it 
that I did not force a rebuild of the kernel module and I did not force 
an update of the boot image?


lsmod | grep -i nvidia
nvidia_drm 73728  32
nvidia_modeset   1187840  65 nvidia_drm
nvidia_uvm   1318912  0
nvidia 55242752  2950 nvidia_uvm,nvidia_modeset

regards,
Steve
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Re: [Undeliverable: Re: Mailing lists and Discourse]

[Wolfgang Pfeiffer]

On Sun, Oct 30, 2022 at 04:08:00PM -0400, Jonathan Billings wrote:

On Oct 30, 2022, at 15:57, Wolfgang Pfeiffer  wrote:


On Sun, Oct 30, 2022 at 11:01:55PM +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:


There are addresses specifically for that purpose.  It is very
frequently the case that list admins manage many lists they are not
subscribed to.  If you have specific requests for the list admins, use
the -owner address.


.. no such -owner or similar addresses seem to be available in the
mail-headers sent to this list.


If you read the footer of every post to this list:


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You will see a list guidance link.

Specifically read this:

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines#Mailing_list


You're right, in the page above there is actually this address, slightly
hidden, but nevertheless, it's there:
users-ow...@lists.fedoraproject.org

My mistake. I just searched email headers and footers going to this
list for an address like this. Where, sadly, it cannot be found.

Wolfgang

PS: I wrote a message to this thread that the problem is solved -
that's wrong: meantime the issue re-appeared.

And I already accidentally wrote an email reporting that this issue
still is not resolved into a new message - but sadly disconnected to
this thread, starting actually a new topic. Sorry about that.
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Re: New kernel install had issues. (6.0.5-200.fc36.x86_64)

[Barry Scott]

> On 30 Oct 2022, at 16:54, Doug H.  wrote:
> 
> Today was
> the big kernel jump to 6.x kernel.

No it is not a big jump it the one after 5.19.
After 20 minors Linux runs out of fingers and toes and bumps the major.
So after 6.19 with me 7.0 for example.

Barry

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Re: [Undeliverable: Re: Mailing lists and Discourse]

[Jonathan Billings]

On Oct 30, 2022, at 15:57, Wolfgang Pfeiffer  wrote:
> 
> On Sun, Oct 30, 2022 at 11:01:55PM +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
>> > So yes: this email is explicitly meant to be also read the Fedora list
>> > administrators.
>> 
>> There are addresses specifically for that purpose.  It is very
>> frequently the case that list admins manage many lists they are not
>> subscribed to.  If you have specific requests for the list admins, use
>> the -owner address.
> 
> .. no such -owner or similar addresses seem to be available in the
> mail-headers sent to this list.

If you read the footer of every post to this list:

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> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org
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> https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue

You will see a list guidance link. 

Specifically read this:

 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines#Mailing_list

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Re: Fwd: [Undeliverable: Re: Mailing lists and Discourse]

[Wolfgang Pfeiffer]

On Sun, Oct 30, 2022 at 11:01:55PM +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:


However, with respect to Wolfgang's posts, the official DMARC (RFC
7489) protocol is not involved here since gmx.net publishes a policy
of "none", which means receivers should take no action merely on the
basis of failure of From alignment.  That said, the reason Google gave
for refusing your email is based on From alignment.  I suspect they
have other reasons, my own organization (a university that has
pretensions to world-class STEM research :-( ) marked your post as
SPAM.


Good to know.


Sorry, I can't tell you what the rationale is, the reason
report is encoded.  I myself don't see anything spammy about any of
your posts. :-(


I'm using this email address since around 20 years - and I actually
see since a few years occasionally that emails I sent to recipients I
know personally are probably tagged as spam - meaning, recipients only
find them after having a look to their spam folders. It rarely
happened, but it happened.

I know some "let's save the world" chain mail senders (one topic
something along the line of: "Don't eat chocolate from the bad guys" -
no kidding) sent me emails I wasn't interested in: they put my email
address together with hundreds of others into the Cc: header - didn't
happen too often, but I suspect often enough to ruin the non-spam
status of my address.

Lesson taken: don't give your email address to people that don't know
what they're doing on their computer.


> So yes: this email is explicitly meant to be also read the Fedora list
> administrators.

There are addresses specifically for that purpose.  It is very
frequently the case that list admins manage many lists they are not
subscribed to.  If you have specific requests for the list admins, use
the -owner address.


.. no such -owner or similar addresses seem to be available in the
mail-headers sent to this list.


But think carefully about whether you need to do that.  It's very
likely they'll just tell you what I just told you, and there's nothing
they can do.  If you repeatedly get DSNs from the same domain, you can
send them to the list owner, and they might unsubscribe those
accounts.  But that's up to them.


By now the list management - provided there is one - should know about
the problem. If they can't fix it I will by sending those DSNs to
/dev/null - or I just unsubscribe.

Thanks a lot for your time - goes out equally to everyone having
contributed to this thread.

Regards,
Wolfgang
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Fwd: [Undeliverable: [Not Resolved, sorry] Re: Fwd: [Undeliverable: Re: Mailing lists and Discourse]]

[Wolfgang Pfeiffer]

Here we are again: because shortly after sending the message at the
very end of this forwarded message I got the message attached below.

One thing that y.antoniowat...@gmail.com (see below) should know of:
After this thread is over: all emails that are sent to me that
*anywhere* contain this email address will go straight to
/dev/null.

My promise to this precious mailing list:
I might take part debating this or any other topic on this list, but I
won't forward again a message like below that contains
y.antoniowat...@gmail.com

Thanks,
Wolfgang




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Subject: Undeliverable: [Resolved] Re: Fwd: [Undeliverable: Re: Mailing lists
and Discourse]
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Re: no sound

[Michael Hennebry]

On Tue, 25 Oct 2022, Michael Hennebry wrote:


Thanks much.
'Twas the connection to the computer.
I don't get back there very much.
Movies talk to me now.


I get some hum even when the speakers are not connected to the computer.
That is clearly not the software.
When actually playing a movie,
it's not very noticeable if there is any other sound.

--
Michael   henne...@web.cs.ndsu.nodak.edu
"I was just thinking about the life of a pumpkin.
Grow up in the sun, happily entwined with others,
and then someone comes along, cuts you open, and rips your guts out." -- Buffy
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Re: New kernel install had issues. (6.0.5-200.fc36.x86_64)

[Doug Herr]

On Sun, Oct 30, 2022, at 9:54 AM, Doug H. wrote:
> I do dnf upgrade any morning where something shows up as new. Today was
> the big kernel jump to 6.x kernel. Was not worried I guess since I just
> ran the update like normal and rebooted to it.
>
> Ended up at:
>
> error: ../../grub-core/kern/dl.c:429:symbol `grub_debug_is_enabled' not
> found.
> Entering rescue mode...
> gruub rescue> _

[snip]

> Note that this is a very "old" system, having been dnf upgraded from
> F19 all the way to today. I notice that the grub menu looks a bit
> different, so it could be an issue of having an old grub on the disk
> that needed an update.

Posting the above got me thinking. I have a 3 drive raided system, so I can 
boot from any of sda, sdb or sdc.

I ran a grub2-install on sdb and rebooted, stopping at bios to reboot from sdc 
and then sdb. Yup, each drive needed a new grub install or else it had that 
issue. So I am 99% sure that this is just a case of me not having updated my 
grub version on disk for so long.

Let this be a reminder to people upgrading over many version of Fedora. It does 
not hurt to update your grub boot sector every now and then. Maybe worth doing 
after each major Fedora version update.

P.S. Thanks to Tom for confirming that this is rare.
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Re: New kernel install had issues. (6.0.5-200.fc36.x86_64)

[Tom Horsley]

On Sun, 30 Oct 2022 09:54:28 -0700
Doug H. wrote:

> Everything seems to be working, so I don't need any help, but wanted to
> report this just in case.

As an additional report, I did a dnf update this morning, got the same
kernel, and had no problems at all. Must be one of those things mankind
was not meant to know :-).
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New kernel install had issues. (6.0.5-200.fc36.x86_64)

[Doug H.]

I do dnf upgrade any morning where something shows up as new. Today was
the big kernel jump to 6.x kernel. Was not worried I guess since I just
ran the update like normal and rebooted to it.

Ended up at:

error: ../../grub-core/kern/dl.c:429:symbol `grub_debug_is_enabled' not
found.
Entering rescue mode...
gruub rescue> _


Booted to the F36 install media and did the rescue option. It found my
system and setup my chroot. I simply ran:

chroot /mnt/sysroot
grub2-install /dev/sda
(no errors)
exit

And rebooted to that. All seems great.

Note that this is a very "old" system, having been dnf upgraded from
F19 all the way to today. I notice that the grub menu looks a bit
different, so it could be an issue of having an old grub on the disk
that needed an update.

Also note that I am pretty sure I have not rebooted since doing a disk
clone from my laptop (not this system) where I mounted old and new
laptop on this system and did a variety of dd, rsync, grub2-install,
reset UUIDs, etc. If I accidentally touch my sda instead of the sdd and
sde that I was working on then I might have created a bomb that went
off at reboot. I don't *think* that happened but not 100% sure.

Everything seems to be working, so I don't need any help, but wanted to
report this just in case.

-- 
Doug H.
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[Resolved] Re: Fwd: [Undeliverable: Re: Mailing lists and Discourse]

[Wolfgang Pfeiffer]

More than 24 hours ago I sent the message below to this list without
an error message as a follow-up being sent to me: Looks good, and I'd
guess the problem's solved.

Thanks a lot to everyone who helped fixing it. :)

Wolfgang


On Sat, Oct 29, 2022 at 03:01:52PM +0200, Wolfgang Pfeiffer wrote:

On Fri, Oct 28, 2022 at 12:12:21PM +1030, Tim via users wrote:

On Thu, 2022-10-27 at 23:09 +0200, Wolfgang Pfeiffer wrote:

2: Does anyone understand what happened according to the message
   attached below from postmas...@outlook.com


[ ... ]
You''ll notice that my messages don't come from my address, but the
list server has changed them to:

Tim via users 

And I see the same for some other people.

I think this is the list's approach to re-authoring certain addresses
to deal with dumb mail receivers.  I don't have a problem with this, as
I don't want any private replies.  And there are other approaches to
still enable private replies, such as I can see the list has CC'd me
(though I'm only getting one message, not two).


I wouldn't have a problem with the list maintainers setting up a
similiar procedure like in your case to deliver my emails to this
list - if it solves the problem: great!

So yes: this email is explicitly meant to be also read the Fedora list
administrators.

Wolfgang

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Re: How do I rebuild Grub/Boot/initramfs from a Live USB?

[Felix Miata]

stan via users composed on 2022-10-30 07:23 (UTC-0700):

>> Finally, I build /boot/grub2/custom.cfg from scratch that uses volume
>> LABELs and symlinks to kernels and initrds, and customize
>> /etc/grub.d/ to cause its entries to head Grub's menu.

> I think this means that if you update any of the installed OSs, you
> have to recreate the custom.cfg menu to incorporate the changes.  And

Depends on the nature of the update. Only major updates may require updates,
depending on specificity of labels used in building custom.cfg. If in upgrading 
a
release, and you change the LABEL of the / filesystem, and depend on LABELs in
boot stanzas, updating is required. Ordinary updates, such as new kernels, 
require
no updates, because the symlinks used in custom.cfg don't change, only the 
initrds
and kernels they point to. Distros I use other than Fedora create the required
symlinks automatically, e.g. all Debians & its derivatives, openSUSE, Mageia.

> that you have to have a custom utility you run in order to do that.
> Would you be willing to share that utility, and your customizations of
> /etc/grub.d?

I have had no compulsion to create any such utility. All it would to would be to
automate symlink creation on Fedora when new kernels are installed that is done
automatically by other distros.

My method of /etc/grub.d/ customization only requires making a copy of 40_custom
named 06_custom, which puts custom.cfg's entries at the top of  Grub's boot 
menu.

> This will work great, but I wouldn't consider it trivial for a new
> user of Fedora.

That would depend on what makes a Fedora user a "new" Fedora user. New to Fedora
but not new to Linux multibooting it ought to have already become trivial if
multiple versions of any same distro had been employed. New to multibooting,
whether or not new to Fedora, not so trivial, but it's newness to multibooting
and/or UEFI that would be the bigger part of making it non-trivial.


has an example of the simplicity of custom.cfg.


has an even simpler method, chainloading, which I don't use because I don't want
more than one distro messing with NVRAM's boot order.
-- 
Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion,
based on faith, not based on science.

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata
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Re: [OT] Xorg, X11, Wayland

[Jonathan Billings]

On Oct 30, 2022, at 07:42, Neal Becker  wrote:I have been watching Wayland with interest since it's beginning.  There is still one thing which prevents me from switching.  I need to attend remote meetings, using teams, zoom, etc.  I always prefer to use the web interfaces for those, through chrome (firefox won't work on teams).  If I use wayland and I try to share a window, only some windows are available to share - presumably the native X11 ones are not available choices.  Until this is resolved it's X11 for me.I’ve shared individual Wayland windows through Chrome and Google Meet:1.	⁠Go to chrome://flags2.	⁠Search "Preferred Ozone platform"3.	⁠Set it to "Wayland"4.	⁠Restart ChromeYou can also launch Chrome with: --ozone-platform=waylandWhen you go to share, it’ll ask you for permission and you can choose whole screen or certain windows.  It might be something that requires GNOME’s mutter though, I haven’t tried any other Wayland-compatible desktop environment. I’ve used it with Zoom too, although not recently since my job requires Meet.-- Jonathan BillingsOn Sat, Oct 29, 2022 at 4:40 PM Slade Watkins via users  wrote:On 10/28/22 2:51 AM, Mike Wright wrote:
> 
> 
> I just found the best explanation of the linux graphics system ever.  It
> covers the history of Xorg, X11, and Wayland, and explains why Wayland
> is the future.  Ironically, the future is always in the future...
> 
> As informative as they come.

Will definitely have to check it out at some point! Thanks for sharing.

I still use X11, even though both the distros I use (Fedora and Pop!_OS)
have support for it. I am just ancient and set in my ways, haha.

-srw
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Re: How do I rebuild Grub/Boot/initramfs from a Live USB?

[stan via users]

On Fri, 28 Oct 2022 18:31:41 -
"Jake D"  wrote:

> I have an internal drive that used to successfully dual boot windows
> and a LUKS-encrypted F36 installation with BTRFS.
> 
> I also had some spare unpartitioned space, which I used to fully
> install some other linux distros (including another F36 installation)
> to troubleshoot other minor problems (a tri-boot, so to speak)
> 
> **What went wrong**
> 
> The new distros installed fine, but I discovered afterwards I could
> no longer find/boot into my original LUKS F36 installation. In my
For completeness:
The new installation of F36 overwrote the /boot/efi/EFI/fedora
partition, preventing the old F36 from booting. At this point you could
have booted into the new F36, mounted the old F36, chrooted to the old
F36, by performing the steps you did from the system recovery below, 

> I’ve managed to chroot (a very dumb word) thru a LiveUSB session,
> with the following commands:
> 
> >>cryptsetup luksOpen /dev/nvme0n1p6 fedora_crypt 
> >>mount /dev/mapper/fedora_crypt /mnt/ -t btrfs -o subvol=root
> >>mount /dev/mapper/fedora_crypt /mnt/home -t btrfs -o subvol=home
> >>mount /dev/nvme0n1p5 /mnt/boot
> >>mkdir /mnt/boot/efi
> >>mount /dev/nvme0n1p1 /mnt/boot/efi
> >>mount --bind /dev /mnt/dev
> >>mount -t proc /proc /mnt/proc
> >>mount -t sysfs /sys /mnt/sys
> >>mount -t tmpfs tmpfs /mnt/run
> >>mkdir -p /mnt/run/systemd/resolve/
> >>nano /mnt/run/systemd/resolve/stub-resolv.conf (enter 'nameserver
> >>1.1.1.1', save) chroot /mnt  
> 
 
> >>dnf reinstall grub2-efi grub2-efi-modules shim  

This would have fixed the problem, allowing you to boot the original
F36, and no longer boot the new F36.

The problem is that both F36 installations used the same directory on
the ESP, and so collided.  There can only be one ESP (EFI partition)
per drive, I think that is a requirement of EFI.  So, you would have
to use either sdboot, or the technique Felix described in a later post
in order to boot multiple version of F36 using grub.  I don't think
either is trivial for a new user of Fedora, but your mileage might
differ.
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Re: How do I rebuild Grub/Boot/initramfs from a Live USB?

[Samuel Sieb]

On 10/30/22 07:23, stan via users wrote:

On Sat, 29 Oct 2022 18:38:53 -0400
Felix Miata  wrote:


stan via users composed on 2022-10-29 11:55 (UTC-0700):


I hadn't even looked into creating a new partition under
/boot/efi/EFI with a unique name, and what would be required for
it to work.  Is it really as simple as changing GRUB_DISTRIBUTOR=
in /etc/default/grub, and everything else happens automatically?



How would dnf know about that changed name in order to install the
shim?


DNF knows because it's a front-end to RPM, which operates according
to the content of the grub2-efi rpm and /etc/default/grub, Grub's
config file. Pretend it has .conf appended if necessary to
understand. The value set for GRUB_DISTRIBUTOR= establishes the
location on the ESP where the efi file(s) must be located.


This is good to know.  I had assumed that the shim location was
hardcoded in the rpm, so this is more flexible.


The shim location *is* hardcoded in the rpm.  I don't know what that 
setting will affect.

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Re: How do I rebuild Grub/Boot/initramfs from a Live USB?

[stan via users]

On Sat, 29 Oct 2022 18:38:53 -0400
Felix Miata  wrote:

> stan via users composed on 2022-10-29 11:55 (UTC-0700):
> 
> >> I hadn't even looked into creating a new partition under
> >> /boot/efi/EFI with a unique name, and what would be required for
> >> it to work.  Is it really as simple as changing GRUB_DISTRIBUTOR=
> >> in /etc/default/grub, and everything else happens automatically?  
> 
> > How would dnf know about that changed name in order to install the
> > shim?  
> 
> DNF knows because it's a front-end to RPM, which operates according
> to the content of the grub2-efi rpm and /etc/default/grub, Grub's
> config file. Pretend it has .conf appended if necessary to
> understand. The value set for GRUB_DISTRIBUTOR= establishes the
> location on the ESP where the efi file(s) must be located.

This is good to know.  I had assumed that the shim location was
hardcoded in the rpm, so this is more flexible.
> 
> > How would the OS be installed initially, since the defaults are for
> > the current location?  
> 
> I have no idea whether the default location can be overridden
> /during/ Fedora installation. As long as the location has been made
> unique for each previous installation, it doesn't matter that the
> default is used initially. Just make
> 
>   # dnf reinstall shim-* grub2-efi-* grub2-common
> 
> part of your standard first boot order of business, and the efi
> directory /should/ be good indefinitely. But, be on the lookout for
> unexpected changes to /etc/default/grub that might change it.

It seems that Fedora could facilitate this by appending a (random?)
suffix to the GRUB_DISTRIBUTOR value during install, so that this step
was automatically completed.  A more sophisticated implementation might
examine other entries, and append a sequential value, or ensure that
the suffix was unique.

> There remains the issue of whose bootloader has priority in firmware
> memory, and on what occasions when OS maintenance activity has reason
> to touch it. Efibootmgr is the utility for managing the NVRAM entries
> while fully booted, while BIOS setup includes its own. My solution to
> avoiding OS touching is to install any bootloader at all on a minimal
> selection of installations, such as only one. On others that have a
> bootloader installed, I omit the ESP from their fstabs, preventing
> them from finding conditions prerequisite to touching.
> 
> Finally, I build /boot/grub2/custom.cfg from scratch that uses volume
> LABELs and symlinks to kernels and initrds, and customize
> /etc/grub.d/ to cause its entries to head Grub's menu.

I think this means that if you update any of the installed OSs, you
have to recreate the custom.cfg menu to incorporate the changes.  And
that you have to have a custom utility you run in order to do that.
Would you be willing to share that utility, and your customizations of
/etc/grub.d?

This will work great, but I wouldn't consider it trivial for a new
user of Fedora.

Thanks for the information, filling out my sketchy understanding.  I now
understand how to accomplish running multiple versions of an OS with a
single EFI partition using grub.
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Re: Fwd: [Undeliverable: Re: Mailing lists and Discourse]

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

Wolfgang Pfeiffer writes:
 > On Fri, Oct 28, 2022 at 12:12:21PM +1030, Tim via users wrote:

 > >You''ll notice that my messages don't come from my address, but the
 > >list server has changed them to:
 > >
 > > Tim via users 
 > >
 > >And I see the same for some other people.
 > >
 > >I think this is the list's approach to re-authoring certain addresses
 > >to deal with dumb mail receivers.

This is specifically to deal with the DMARC "from alignment" problem,
which allows a domain to publish a restriction on who may use their
domain in From.  This restriction is respected by most receivers.
Mailing list break both of the authentication protocols.  This means
that if the DMARC policy of the author's domain is "reject", receivers
should refuse mail sent via mailing lists.  So mailing lists
substitute an address in their domain which they can authenticate to
receivers.

However, with respect to Wolfgang's posts, the official DMARC (RFC
7489) protocol is not involved here since gmx.net publishes a policy
of "none", which means receivers should take no action merely on the
basis of failure of From alignment.  That said, the reason Google gave
for refusing your email is based on From alignment.  I suspect they
have other reasons, my own organization (a university that has
pretensions to world-class STEM research :-( ) marked your post as
SPAM.  Sorry, I can't tell you what the rationale is, the reason
report is encoded.  I myself don't see anything spammy about any of
your posts. :-(

 > I wouldn't have a problem with the list maintainers setting up a
 > similiar procedure like in your case to deliver my emails to this
 > list - if it solves the problem: great!

I don't think there is a problem with the lists.  I suppose Fedora
lists have thousands of subscribers.  The weird thing is that you only
received a few Delivery Status Notices (DSN).  If something were
broken in the lists you'd get thousands.

I think that what is happening is that either there are a couple of
broken receiver sites that sent DSNs to you rather than the list which
should handle them, or (quite unlikely) Fedora has disabled the
Mailman default of requesting that errors be sent to Mailman which
knows how to parse several dozen styles of DSN, and if it can't sends
to the list administrator (not to the author).

The logic is that although the author sent the mail, the list chooses
the recipients, and if the mail is bad (eg, spam) the list shouldn't
send it at all, and if it's something idiosyncratic at the receiver
(typically disk full or no such user), there's nothing the author of
the post can do anyway (the list can and does disable delivery or even
unsubscribe subscribers who produce lots of DSNs).

 > So yes: this email is explicitly meant to be also read the Fedora list
 > administrators.

There are addresses specifically for that purpose.  It is very
frequently the case that list admins manage many lists they are not
subscribed to.  If you have specific requests for the list admins, use
the -owner address.

But think carefully about whether you need to do that.  It's very
likely they'll just tell you what I just told you, and there's nothing
they can do.  If you repeatedly get DSNs from the same domain, you can
send them to the list owner, and they might unsubscribe those
accounts.  But that's up to them.
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Re: old repo question

[ToddAndMargo via users]

On 10/29/22 10:49, Samuel Sieb wrote:

On 10/29/22 01:36, ToddAndMargo via users wrote:

On 10/29/22 01:30, Samuel Sieb wrote:

On 10/29/22 01:19, ToddAndMargo via users wrote:

Hi All,

I have to dig out Wine version 6 from Fedora 35's
repo (Wine 7 is an absolute disaster).

Question: how long will I be able to use the
dnf's `--releasever=35` option?  How long are
the defunct repo's maintained?


They aren't defunct.  The files are eventually moved to archive and 
the mirror manager is reconfigured to point there.  So there are less 
active mirrors for the content, but you can still access all the way 
back to Fedora Core 1.


With `--releasever` or do I have to get fancy?


As long as your repo configs point to the mirror manager (which is the 
default) instead of a specific site, that will work.


Thank you!


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Re: [OT] Xorg, X11, Wayland

[Neal Becker]

I have been watching Wayland with interest since it's beginning.  There is
still one thing which prevents me from switching.  I need to attend remote
meetings, using teams, zoom, etc.  I always prefer to use the web
interfaces for those, through chrome (firefox won't work on teams).  If I
use wayland and I try to share a window, only some windows are available to
share - presumably the native X11 ones are not available choices.  Until
this is resolved it's X11 for me.

On Sat, Oct 29, 2022 at 4:40 PM Slade Watkins via users <
users@lists.fedoraproject.org> wrote:

> On 10/28/22 2:51 AM, Mike Wright wrote:
> >
> >
> > I just found the best explanation of the linux graphics system ever.  It
> > covers the history of Xorg, X11, and Wayland, and explains why Wayland
> > is the future.  Ironically, the future is always in the future...
> >
> > As informative as they come.
>
> Will definitely have to check it out at some point! Thanks for sharing.
>
> I still use X11, even though both the distros I use (Fedora and Pop!_OS)
> have support for it. I am just ancient and set in my ways, haha.
>
> -srw
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-- 
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