Re: Fedora Android
Timothy Murphy wrote: I imagine most people running Fedora on their laptops have one or more Android phones and other devices. I'm wondering what applications people use to link the two? I've found this to be surprisingly difficult. I'm running Fedora-21/KDE on my laptops so naturally tried KDE Connect, which is supposed to do the job. But I have found this very unsatisfactory - it works occasionally, but simply fails to pair on most occasions. As there is essentially no documentation with this program it is difficult to know if I am using it correctly, or if the problem lies with the app on my phone. ssh client ConnectBot - let's me used CLI on remote machines sftp client DroidSCP - I paid for the bulk transfer license, it's clunky but functional, vs. glitzy and and unreliable from a few other things I tried. They claim to do rsync, I haven't put much effort into finding the details. I'm more about works than ease of use and features. Both are desirable, but if I must choose I pass on debugging. HTH -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: palimpsest - is there a replacement
Tom Horsley wrote: On Thu, 18 Dec 2014 19:13:57 -0500 Bill Davidsen wrote: Until quite recently there was a package, palimpsest The hopelessly opaque name palimpset was renamed to the moderately sensible gnome-disks (though it would be nice if a gnome-discs link were installed by default :-). Was this at one time called gnome-system-disks? That's the name in the offending script, with a comment saying palimpsest. This seems to be the problem, I must have added the link at some time in the past on fc19, and skipped 20 for various reasons. Free fix for the same script on RHEL7 as well. Thanks. -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
palimpsest - is there a replacement
Until quite recently there was a package, palimpsest, which was used to graphically view the layout of the drives on the system, making it easy to see RAID, and volume groups, etc, and view the health of the individual drives using SMART data. Later this was renames gnome-system-disk (is this a fork, or did GNOME just grab it as their own?) but was sill available. I never fould the action items in the program all that useful, I prefer to use other tools to creat RAID arrays, play with LVM, etc, but the tool was really useful to visualize complex storage setups, particularly if you are going into a system you didn't set up, or did so long ago. What's the tool which replaces this? This should be maintained by Redhat as a system tool, since I can't find anything in RHEL7 which seems to provide the information, and I am considering upgrading a server farm, with at most any two servers alike. They bought what IBM told them was the best buy, some have hardware RAID, some software RAID, some whatever dm sets up. There must be some visualization tool, right? -- bill davidsen david...@tmr.com CTO TMR Associates, Inc Unsigned numbers may not be negative. However, unsigned numbers may be less than zero for suffiently large values of zero. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
A first in bug reporting
I was reporting a bug in fc21-x86 (polkitd hung 100% busy) and in the process discovered that the last upgrade caused eog to generate warnings about the accessibility bus which are not in the original install, at least from the fc21-Live-MATE-x86_64 ISO I used. Never found one bug while reporting another before, and I go back to Redhat desktop 6 or so. Just a fun thing for me, trying fc21 on a weekend instead of having time off. -- bill davidsen david...@tmr.com CTO TMR Associates, Inc Unsigned numbers may not be negative. However, unsigned numbers may be less than zero for suffiently large values of zero. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Latest systemd news
Chris Adams wrote: Once upon a time, Sam Varshavchik mr...@courier-mta.com said: Making the rounds of various technical mailing lists yesterday, with a subject that's typically a variation of Just for yucks, and giggles is a link to a commit to systemd's git, adding DNS caching to systemd; in one, huge 857 line glop. Here's its entire commit message: resolved: add DNS cache. Yet more unreasonable scope creep for the systemd project, and this time reinventing the wheel for no good reason. There are already perfectly good resolver libraries, caches, etc.; there is no good reason for systemd to grow its own. More bloat to fail, it may come as a shock, but there are computers running Linux and not network connected at all (as in no NIC devices). Bloat for no benefit. -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Latest systemd news
Joe Zeff wrote: On 11/15/2014 08:27 AM, Tom Horsley wrote: I've always called systemd the world's fist computer fungus - it wants to grow over everything. Resistance is futile! Your functionality will be assimilated. Or in this case approximated. -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Xfce and the windows key
Robert Moskowitz wrote: On 12/11/2014 02:44 PM, poma wrote: On 11.12.2014 19:25, Robert Moskowitz wrote: On F21 I have not found anything in the Xfce keyboard shortcut on using the windows keys. The menu button seems to be working ok. The windows start button does not seem to do anything. I would think it would bring down the applications menu, but it doesn't. The start button + P does bring up the monitor switcher (better than GNOME just rolling through the modes). Start + L does not lock the screen. Don't know of any others, but this is my experience so far. Start+L would be nicer than ctl-alt-del. Have not I already explained what 'xflock4' is? Well, actually I just did a search of this list back into september and this is the only message that comes up with the string 'xflock4' in it. Now it might be my Thunderbird emailer search is having some challenges, or I dropped some messages when I changed my server. What list and what message did you explain xflock4 in? Note that there is neither man page nor /usr/share/doc descriping it, and -? -h and --help all fail to generate useful guidance. Why is an undocumented executable included in fc21 at all? -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Fedora 21 64bit ram usage
kc8...@ohioham.com wrote: I installed 21 yesterday and I seen that I was using 1.5 g of ram. I didn't have anything running but the os it self I have a Dell I7 3.9 g and 8 g of ram . Has anyone else ham this problem and no how to fix it . When I opened my mail and open Firefox I go up to 3.6g of ram . All the fans pick up to pull the heat off like they should That is double bizarre... First that you think you're using that much memory, and second that you perceive the fans picking up because of it. Memory always has data, even if it's random bits, and memory refresh takes the same power keeping your data and junk intact. Either you're utterly wrong, or something in the system is using the CPU in a big way, which will definitely draw a boat load of power. FC21-MATE-x86_64 free totalusedfree shared buff/cache available Mem:1193672 263880 6182203812 311572 772148 Swap:630780 0 630780 FC21-MATE-x86_64 top (by CPU) top - 16:39:19 up 58 min, 3 users, load average: 0.00, 0.02, 0.05 Tasks: 150 total, 2 running, 148 sleeping, 0 stopped, 0 zombie %Cpu(s): 0.6 us, 0.1 sy, 0.0 ni, 99.4 id, 0.0 wa, 0.0 hi, 0.0 si, 0.0 st KiB Mem : 1193672 total, 617924 free, 264104 used, 311644 buff/cache KiB Swap: 630780 total, 630780 free,0 used. 771904 avail Mem PID USER PR NIVIRTRESSHR S %CPU %MEM TIME+ COMMAND 836 root 20 0 232304 43544 20164 S 0.9 3.6 0:31.18 Xorg.bin 1709 davidsen 20 0 486788 32820 26696 S 0.7 2.7 0:20.75 mate-system-mon 1582 davidsen 20 0 607408 24472 19984 S 0.1 2.1 0:02.45 mate-terminal 573 root 20 0 408560 8364 7312 S 0.0 0.7 0:00.19 accounts-daemon 1 root 20 0 41400 9080 3604 S 0.0 0.8 0:01.18 systemd 2 root 20 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 kthreadd 3 root 20 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.01 ksoftirqd/0 FC21-MATE-x86_64 top (by memory) top - 16:40:25 up 59 min, 3 users, load average: 0.00, 0.01, 0.05 Tasks: 150 total, 2 running, 148 sleeping, 0 stopped, 0 zombie %Cpu(s): 0.5 us, 0.1 sy, 0.0 ni, 99.3 id, 0.2 wa, 0.0 hi, 0.0 si, 0.0 st KiB Mem : 1193672 total, 617808 free, 264236 used, 311628 buff/cache KiB Swap: 630780 total, 630780 free,0 used. 771828 avail Mem PID USER PR NIVIRTRESSHR S %CPU %MEM TIME+ COMMAND 836 root 20 0 232304 43544 20164 S 1.2 3.6 0:31.92 Xorg.bin 1724 davidsen 20 0 703592 33368 22208 S 0.0 2.8 0:02.68 mateweather-app 1709 davidsen 20 0 486788 32820 26696 S 0.7 2.7 0:21.23 mate-system-mon 609 root 20 0 353032 29780 12500 S 0.0 2.5 0:00.51 firewalld 1440 davidsen 20 0 581532 28320 23100 S 0.0 2.4 0:00.12 nm-applet 1364 davidsen 20 0 866524 27232 22556 S 0.0 2.3 0:00.77 caja 1355 davidsen 20 0 722332 27040 21608 S 0.0 2.3 0:01.78 mate-panel 1386 davidsen 20 0 366036 24704 12324 S 0.0 2.1 0:00.25 applet.py 1582 davidsen 20 0 607408 24472 19984 S 0.2 2.1 0:02.61 mate-terminal In short, with a terminal and system monitor running, I see no excessive memory or CPU usage. If you are seeing a real symptom, something other than fc21 is involved. HTH -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: SATA II causes system freeze
David A. De Graaf wrote: On Fri, Oct 03, 2014 at 02:19:55PM -0400, David A. De Graaf wrote: On Fri, Oct 03, 2014 at 04:01:30AM +0930, Tim wrote: Allegedly, on or about 02 October 2014, Chris Murphy sent: Cables are often the source of weird problems. Specifically it's the connectors that are flakey, not the cable portion itself. Though, if you savagely bend SATA leads, the way some of them are supplied in a flattened up zig-zag style, with a rubber band around them, you can mess up the data transmission. Some quick feedback: It's now apparent that the cables or SATA sockets have nothing to do with my problem. The finger of guilt now seems to point to the RAM sticks. However, experiments are slow. More later. After weeks of experimentation it's clear that my machine crashes have nothing to do with the SATA connections or the harddrives. They are caused by a too-small swap space! Zero is OK; large is OK; but small is NG. For reasons I can't recall, the system is set up with only a 2 GB swap partition, and for a long while it had a single 4 GB RAM memory stick. This was OK. Then I added a second 4 GB memory stick, identical to the first. With 8 GB RAM and 2 GB swap the system crashed - froze - after a random few hours. This was maddening. Not knowing the real cause, I bought a different motherboard, changed power supply, tried different SATA and ATA harddrive connections, changed the SATA cable, removed the extra data drive, removed the ATA CD drive, used one or the other RAM stick, disconnected everything and ran with only a Live F20 Xfce USB stick. I ran memtest86 for days without error. The only thing that worked was to revert to only a single memory stick - 4 GB. Either stick was OK. I put everything back together, using an ATA/SATA converter for the 350 GB primary disk, the SATA 1TB data harddrive, and the ATA CD. Then I noticed the size of the swap partition was 2 GB and, having nothing else to try, added an 8 GB swap file. Eureka! It ran. I have a matrix of test cases which I won't bore you with. They can be summarized as follows: 1 - with 4 GB RAM, either 0 or 2 GB swap space is OK. 2 - with 8 GB RAM, 0 swap space is OK. 3 - with 8 GB RAM, 2 GB swap space will reliably freeze the system 4 - with 8 GB RAM, 4 GB swap file is OK. 5 - with 8 GB RAM, 2 GB swap partition + 8 GB swap file is OK, even if the priority of the smaller one is forced higher. At no time during these experiments was swap space actually used according to the gkrellm display; the RAM usage remained well below what was available. This is clearly a bug. No rational design would work like this. Is it a kernel bug? Some other component? Which one gets the Bugzilla? It's probably too late to check now, but did you try taking the 2GB swap offline and running mkswap on it to check for a glitch somewhere? Yes, I know that's nominally a can't happen thing, but having had success with that, I mention it. My sample size (one) is pretty small. -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: SATA II causes system freeze
Bill Davidsen wrote: David A. De Graaf wrote: On Fri, Oct 03, 2014 at 02:19:55PM -0400, David A. De Graaf wrote: On Fri, Oct 03, 2014 at 04:01:30AM +0930, Tim wrote: Allegedly, on or about 02 October 2014, Chris Murphy sent: Cables are often the source of weird problems. Specifically it's the connectors that are flakey, not the cable portion itself. Though, if you savagely bend SATA leads, the way some of them are supplied in a flattened up zig-zag style, with a rubber band around them, you can mess up the data transmission. Some quick feedback: It's now apparent that the cables or SATA sockets have nothing to do with my problem. The finger of guilt now seems to point to the RAM sticks. However, experiments are slow. More later. After weeks of experimentation it's clear that my machine crashes have nothing to do with the SATA connections or the harddrives. They are caused by a too-small swap space! Zero is OK; large is OK; but small is NG. For reasons I can't recall, the system is set up with only a 2 GB swap partition, and for a long while it had a single 4 GB RAM memory stick. This was OK. Then I added a second 4 GB memory stick, identical to the first. With 8 GB RAM and 2 GB swap the system crashed - froze - after a random few hours. This was maddening. Not knowing the real cause, I bought a different motherboard, changed power supply, tried different SATA and ATA harddrive connections, changed the SATA cable, removed the extra data drive, removed the ATA CD drive, used one or the other RAM stick, disconnected everything and ran with only a Live F20 Xfce USB stick. I ran memtest86 for days without error. The only thing that worked was to revert to only a single memory stick - 4 GB. Either stick was OK. I put everything back together, using an ATA/SATA converter for the 350 GB primary disk, the SATA 1TB data harddrive, and the ATA CD. Then I noticed the size of the swap partition was 2 GB and, having nothing else to try, added an 8 GB swap file. Eureka! It ran. I have a matrix of test cases which I won't bore you with. They can be summarized as follows: 1 - with 4 GB RAM, either 0 or 2 GB swap space is OK. 2 - with 8 GB RAM, 0 swap space is OK. 3 - with 8 GB RAM, 2 GB swap space will reliably freeze the system 4 - with 8 GB RAM, 4 GB swap file is OK. 5 - with 8 GB RAM, 2 GB swap partition + 8 GB swap file is OK, even if the priority of the smaller one is forced higher. At no time during these experiments was swap space actually used according to the gkrellm display; the RAM usage remained well below what was available. This is clearly a bug. No rational design would work like this. Is it a kernel bug? Some other component? Which one gets the Bugzilla? It's probably too late to check now, but did you try taking the 2GB swap offline and running mkswap on it to check for a glitch somewhere? Yes, I know that's nominally a can't happen thing, but having had success with that, I mention it. My sample size (one) is pretty small. And to reply to my own suggestion, my notes on that also say you may want to change to deadline scheduler on the swap device. -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: rc.local not start at the boot
Angelo Moreschini wrote: I would say that this thread is the continuation of a my preceding thread : “selecting some kind of files using the resync command” There I got help in order to make the backup of some my critical files. Now I am able to backing up these files using a shell script from the line command. But I would like also that this backup runs automatically when the computer boots. I know that this task is performed by the rc.local file, in Linux. Ed Greshko gave me a link about an announcement of Fedora concerning rc.local there is wrote : - - - - - - - - - - The |/etc/rc.d/rc.local| local customization script is no longer included by default. Administrators who need this functionality merely have to create this file, make it executable, and it will run on boot. - - - - - - - - - - After I read this announcement, I create the the file rc.local and I made it executable: [angelo_dev@zorro rc.d]$ ls -l /etc/rc.d/rc.local -rwxr-xr-x. 1 root root 1262 Oct 27 12:18 /etc/rc.d/rc.local But, doing some tests, I saw that the scripts stored inside rc.local not run at boot, ...on my computer. I would like to have some advice concerning the way to manage tests, in order to understand because the content of rc.local is not executed at the start... and toobtain thatscripts run atthe boot Having followed the thread as of the time of this message, a few comments about scripts and such. 1 - redirection You don't need to do separate redirects to put everything in the same place, exec /tmp/rc.local.log will do it, and make it clear what your doing. Interestingly, if you are running from a terminal, you can echo foo 0 and still write the terminal as long as STDIN is the terminal. 2 - directories When you run a command, script or not, you may not be in the directory you expect, or have the right PATH. When running from rc.local, you will be starting as root (unless you use su) in /root, using the root PATH. The trick is to force a login as yourself: su -c 'My cmd1; My cmd2' My_log_optional - My-username This will get you in your usual login directory, PATH, and UID. 3 - more on directories and PATH when you run a command with the 'batch' or 'at' commands, they start in the current directory, and in most cases the current PATH and UID. Sometimes when I create working files, logs, command output, I want to save for a few days. I use the 'at' command to delete them in a few days so I leave less clutter if I don't use them. Starting in the current directory is a benefit if you remember it will happen. 4 - logging For crying out loud use the damn logger command to log stuff like rc.local: logger -t rc.local Started # or on commands, use || to log fails: My_cmd1 || logger -t rc.local My_cmd1 exit with $! status # and when done: logger -t rc.local Complete, reached end Then you have a trail in the system log which you can find: grep rc.local /var/log/messages You can still put errors from a command in a file of its own, if that provides documentation, but the note in the log remains you it failed. Hope this is going to help the original problem and some others as well. -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: A Linux for the totally maintenance free
Ed Greshko wrote: On 10/28/14 11:37, jd1008 wrote: Oooops! I do not have your public key :) :) So, it all looks like greek to me Sent in error from my tablet courtesy of Mei-Mei.a cat. I have sent many things like that, and cats regularly contribute to my chat activities. -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: A Linux for the totally maintenance free
jd1008 wrote: On 10/28/2014 12:16 PM, Robert Moskowitz wrote: On 10/28/2014 07:04 PM, Steven Rosenberg wrote: On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 10:58 AM, Joe Zeff j...@zeff.us wrote: When I learned what Gnome 3 was going to be like, I started looking for a different DE and ended up with Xfce. One of the minor things I like about it is that you can configure it so that a right-click anywhere on the desktop brings up your main menu; no need to go to the corner of the panel. After a year working with Unity, my sister had me migrate her from Ubuntu to Xubuntu. If nothing else, try a LiveUSB with the Xfce spin; you may be pleasantly surprised because it's much less of a resource hog than either Gnome or KDE without being minimalist. +1 for Xfce I got introduced to it via Fedora for arm. With ONLY 1Gb on my Cubieboard2, it is nice that the desktop does not eat up all your memory. Particularly when I am only running with a SD card (I do have sata drive builds as well). So I am more using Xfce and might even do my F21 beta on a notebook with it as well. Skip gnome all together on the next upgrade. So, between xfce and lxde, which one consumes less ram? I booted all of the FC20 Live CDs I have on hand, and I share this for your edification: CD RAM used MB Idle CPU XFCE-64 204 99.[6-8] LXDE-32 123 99.[4-6] MATE-32 143 99.[7-9] MATE-64 237 99.8-100 Each was booted in KVM, I opened a singe terminal, ran top -d10 and recorded the highest and lowest idle in one minute. Then I used free to see the RAM in use. The CPU matters to me, when Cinnamon came out I liked it, but it used about 4% of the CPU at idle, and more if anything was updating the screen. I would call all of these a tie on CPU, I'm tempted to call memory a tie, too, if it's really tight the 32bit release will make some difference. HTH -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: A Linux for the totally maintenance free
Joe Zeff wrote: On 10/28/2014 05:25 PM, jd1008 wrote: As my time is not infinite :) I decided to install pclinuxos with kde DE and bfs-PAE kernel. Yes, I will be spending some time, maybe 8 or 16 hours bringing this lady up to speed on basic things. I will certainly automate the updates, so she will not have to interact with the process at all. I don't know how PCLinuxOS handles updates, but generally speaking you either need to supply the root password (or, if you're in the wheel group your password) to authorize installing the updates. Is this going to be an issue, or is it something she's willing to put up with? In any event, please keep us informed. I doubt that I'm the only one here other than you who gets asked about installing/using Linux by people who want to get away from Windows but want something that Just Works. Up until now, I've been pointing them at Ubuntu, but if PCLinuxOS is even easier, that gives me another option. Certainly Fedora or CentOS can update by magic if needed. Nut the user needs to avoid powering down while that happens. You can start: yum --downloadonly upgrade and get the RPMs staged in /var/cache/yum, then offer to complete as part of the shutdown: yum -y upgrade yum clean all Just a thought, I run the upgrade by hand, but the download once a day, or on boot, depending on the machine being up. Since the upgrade can end in a power off, the user need not wait until the process completes. -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Running Fedora or RHEL7 with NetworkManager
I have a complex firewall setup running on an older version of Fedora, and I'd like to upgrade to RHEL7 or recent Fedora. Unfortunately, I can't really do what I need using firewalld, so two questions: 1 - has anyone done this and were there any serious gotcha's? 2 - is it as easy as removing firewalld and installing networkmanager with yum? This setup uses two (soon three) ISP connections, any of which can be used as default, two secure internal networks, and one DMZ for servers. Some connections must be forced out via a defined ISP, and since Linux doesn't source route like BSD, I can't just set the source IP and have the packet go out the right interface, hoops must be jumped. Any experience to share? -- bill davidsen david...@tmr.com CTO TMR Associates, Inc Unsigned numbers may not be negative. However, unsigned numbers may be less than zero for suffiently large values of zero. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Running Fedora or RHEL7 with NetworkManager
Matthew Miller wrote: On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 11:45:10AM -0400, Bill Davidsen wrote: I have a complex firewall setup running on an older version of Fedora, and I'd like to upgrade to RHEL7 or recent Fedora. Unfortunately, I can't really do what I need using firewalld, so two questions: 1 - has anyone done this and were there any serious gotcha's? 2 - is it as easy as removing firewalld and installing networkmanager with yum? NetworkManager should already be installed by default (in everything but Fedora Cloud). Firewalld can be removed and replaced with something else — although it might be nice to file an RFE so that it has support for the hoops you need jumped, because the eventual intention is to make it _easier_ to support complex setups like this. This is such a custom setup, I'm not sure that resources would be justified in doing so, although I would be happy to see it. Off the top of my head: - source IP is forced for some outgoing connections: by protocol (port, actually) by destination IP - Packets with a given source IP must go out of the appropriate interface. Why Linux does any other thing is either politics or religion, but must happen. - FORWARDing rules based on the NIC getting the connection, not the IP address. I didn't make up the requirements, I did actually write the rules which make the magic happen. -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Running Fedora or RHEL7 with NetworkManager
Tom Horsley wrote: On Fri, 24 Oct 2014 11:45:10 -0400 Bill Davidsen wrote: 2 - is it as easy as removing firewalld and installing networkmanager with yum? They have nothing to do with one another as far as I know. Just copy your /etc/sysconfig/iptables (and ip6tables) from your old system and systemctl disable firewalld systemctl mask firewalld systemctl enable iptables systemctl enable ip6tables and all the easy firewalld crap you have no idea how to use and don't want to waste time learning is gone and all the complicated iptables stuff you already spent years learning and know how to use is back :-). Thanks, this is the assurance I was hoping to get, I fear that the firewalld interface leans toward making do it the way the UI author would easy, and it never occurred to him/her/them to do anything like what I'm doing. And I can/do use firewalld for clients, and even servers, but for forwarding rules, and routing efforts, it's not an optimal UI. -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: f21 workstation(gnome) ping fedora servers every 300seconds
Rahul Sundaram wrote: HI On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 6:39 PM, Bill Davidsen wrote: bitlord wrote: This is about Fedora 21 which is still not released!!! Please read carefully. And it is only default on Workstation image (that is what I know) Thank you for the warning! I have to read up on Captive Portal, but I'm willing to bet that most people who run servers which are not specifically intended to be such would rather not have a bunch of pings added to their network load. Workstation != server. Please see subject It sounds as if you are disagreeing with me while saying the same thing... People running servers on a distribution other than a server setup (ie. workstation). How often does someone's desktop get a server dropped on it during development, then moved to production? Developers have done that since the SunOS (no, not Solaris) days, so good to know that workstation builds are different when testing. -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: A Linux for the totally maintenance free
Tom Horsley wrote: On Thu, 23 Oct 2014 12:35:58 -0500 Michael Cronenworth wrote: There is no 32-bit environment. This is a feature of RHEL 7. https://access.redhat.com/solutions/509373 Do you need additional proof? That article explicitly says they will continue to support 32 bit libraries, they just aren't shipping a 32 bit kernel. User level 32 bit apps will continue to run. User level apps that need some closed source driver that only works in 32 bit kernels will have a problem :-). Thanks, I guess that would be the use case for 32 bit kernel (why the 64bit data 32bit code model isn't done, I don't know). In any case, there would not be any such drivers if there is no 32bit kernel to build against, would there. Using a driver built against another kernel is too risky to contemplate someone deliberately making that a production case (I hope). -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: A Linux for the totally maintenance free
Tom Horsley wrote: On Thu, 23 Oct 2014 11:53:42 +0300 Gilboa Davara wrote: I'd personally go with CentOS 7.0 (if all the required software is there) or Ubuntu 14.04 LTS. Or if you find the horror that is the Ubuntu Unity interface too much to bear, Linux Mint is essentially Ubuntu with a different UI plugged in by default. (I used to think Unity was the most horrible interface ever invented, then I had to use Windows 8 and I apologized to Ubuntu :-). I was going to say either Mint (to stay mostly up-to-date) or CentOS 6 or 7 to provide a stable platform with security updates. I would not wish Ubuntu on anyone, and GNOME3 doesn't think the way I do, although the new interface is less bad. Mint rocks. -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Convert MP4 video file to Image file
Klaus-Peter Schrage wrote: Am 02.09.2014 19:07, schrieb Mickey: On 09/02/2014 12:55 PM, Sudhir Khanger wrote: On Tuesday, September 02, 2014 12:50:44 PM Mickey wrote: Yes a Video DVD You can do that directly from K3b. Google k3b video dvd should get you plenty of help. In K3B I selected DVD video project and K3B gave me a Error message Could not determine size of resulting image file the file i submitted is video.mp4 file. Into a K3b video-dvd project, you cant't submit a video.mp4 file directly (I maybe corrected). K3b expects the transcoded VOB, IFO, BUP, ... files in its VIDEO_TS directory. So again, I recommend dvdstyler, which is not difficult to handle if you don't need complicated stuff like titles and menues in your dvd. Just start a new project, drop in your mp4 and click the burn button. There you'll find an option to create an iso file for your video dvd. I haven't needed titles, but menus and submenus are well supported. I grab recipes from various TV cooking shows, and save until they add up to enough to put on a DVD. I have a main (start) menu which points to submenus, like Italian, Mexican, Snacks, Slow cooker, Beef, White meats, Spicy, etc. Not surprisingly some recipes fall into multiple categories, and appear on multiple menus. This works fine, one copy of the video, multiple links from multiple menus. I usually have room to add the error recovery stuff, costs me nothing to add, might save digging out a backup copy some day. So dvdstyler will handle a reasonable amount of menu complexity, and will accept as input a number of file formats, I think including mp4, although I have none handy to check my memory. -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: f21 workstation(gnome) ping fedora servers every 300seconds
bitlord wrote: This is about Fedora 21 which is still not released!!! Please read carefully. And it is only default on Workstation image (that is what I know) Thank you for the warning! I have to read up on Captive Portal, but I'm willing to bet that most people who run servers which are not specifically intended to be such would rather not have a bunch of pings added to their network load. As long as this behavior is something which applies only to those using it, bravo, another new capability. But if it means that every server, or worse yet every damn socket, is going to get pinged all the time, Hopefully this is not what it seems, and will only apply to servers wishing to offer the feature, rather than a ping attack on the network stack. There is a new feature introduced in Gnome and NetworkManager which allows 'Captive Portal'[1] services to work. This may be useful feature for some users (that is why it is implemented), but most users won't use it, and it pings fedora servers every '300seconds', it is enabled by NetworkManager and 'NetworkManager-config-connectivity-fedora' (package/config file) which is default installed in Workstation image only (currently, unless someone explicitly pull it in for other live images), 'gnome-shell' package only depends on it. Because I'm not a security expert, I don't want to say this is security issue, but privacy issue to some level (probably not critical), as I understand it, no more information than request to get a file is being sent (so only your 'IP' is exposed)), It currently uses HTTP to communicate with fedora servers, but it is planed to use HTTPS [2], without that you cannot verify who serves that file? (n00b here). At the moment users aren't aware of this feature, and most users probably never will find it working in the background, but I think it shouldn't be enable by default silently, so I filed a 'fesco' ticket for it [3] (PLEASE DON'T SPAM ON FESCO TICKET!, keep discussion here as much as it is possible) Please don't turn this thread to something which it shouldn't be. Be constructive. I don't want to insult anyone, just want this to be discussed, and features like this to be discussed/announced with/to users and developers in future. (English is not my native language, I learned some basics from reading/writing/listening, so, sorry for mistakes) [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captive_portal [2] - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1135777 [3] - https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1337 -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: is it the future?
Richard Hughes wrote: On 9 September 2014 08:55, Balint Szigeti balint.s...@gmail.com wrote: Maybe I have watched too many films... Yes, you have. If you don't like the direction systemd is taking then please install one of the BSD's and stop the discussion on this user list. Thanks. Spoken like a true fascist, Richard. I checked the duty roster and it's not your week to be God, either. I agree that systemd is totally failing at its original direction, and note that it has delayed migration to newer RHEL versions due to the need to find budget for sysadmin training. That said, I am not claiming that it has not use, just that it addresses (some say creates) problems many sites don't have. If RHEL7 allows, systemd will be removed and sysvinit installed rather than do that. There are a lot of sysvinit packages there, I suspect they will do the job. Pushing the init migration out another five years will let people skip systemd and go to the next big thing (possibly fatsock from CMU, however they do odd capitalization). Like many things it is a huge server solution fitted awkwardly to medium servers, introducing a high complexity to benefit ratio. -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Convert MP4 video file to Image file
Mickey wrote: On 09/02/2014 11:57 AM, Sudhir Khanger wrote: On Tuesday, September 02, 2014 11:14:21 AM Mickey wrote: How do you convert a Video.mp4 to a Image to burn in K3B or Brasero ? What do you mean by an image? Are you looking into creating a Video DVD? Yes a Video DVD. dvdstyler -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: High CPU usage, load average and system temperature
Sudhir Khanger wrote: On Mon, Aug 25, 2014 at 11:35 PM, jd1008 jd1...@gmail.com wrote: perhaps you will have to accept the consequences :) :) I think it's more than fan or GPU load issue. There are two reasons. Firstly, GPUs are not suddenly start eating CPU one day. System has been running fine for 3 years and months on exactly same setup. Secondly, if you look into this screenshot[1] I have just booted ON the laptop and it was already running at 84C. The only thing that was started was Chrome newtab. You see load is way to high but none of the processes are taking up too much resources. [1] http://i.imgur.com/0cBa9eg.png Actually, the load is not too hugh, with 80% idle it leaves 20% doing anything, that shouldn't present a heat problem. I really think you have a *cooling* problem, not getting rid of the normal heat you have. Two ideas: Have you opened up the case and removed the dust? I don't mean open one of the little doors and saying oh, pretty, but open all the case bits the vendor says not to. That is my first and most likely thought. You can measure power use by hooking up the power supply and using a Kill-o-Watt or similar meter. Each watt is 3.4 BTU/hr. NOTE: If your battery life is good, that tells you you are NOT using too much power, which tells you that you ARE keeping too much heat. I'm betting dust. Finally (bonus 3rd idea) boot a non-KDE live DVD and watch the temperature with that. Unlikely to be related issue, but you can feel as if you now know it not something running hidden in the background and doing something you don't see. -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: WiFi permanently disappeared after booting test kernel
Ed Greshko wrote: On 02/01/2013 06:19 AM, Mike Fleetwood wrote: Hi, On my netbook I booted a test kernel 3.8.0-rc4+ I compiled. Now after booting back into my regular Fedora kernel 3.6.11-5.fc17.i686.PAE my wifi network device remains permanently disappeared. No wifi networks displayed in Network Manager gui. Also the Network Manager syslog messages make it look like the device has completely disappeared. Suggestions for restoring wifi welcome. Thanks Mike Fragment of Network Manager syslog messages when working before --8-- Jan 18 23:01:53 edge NetworkManager[479]: info WiFi enabled by radio killswitch; enabled by state file Fragment of Network Manager syslog messages when broken after --8-- Jan 28 18:43:26 edge NetworkManager[466]: info WiFi disabled by radio killswitch; enabled by state file yum install rfkill Then provide the output of rfkill list I once tracked a similar issue down to someone picking up a laptop in such a way that they hit the hardware disable switch on the front of a laptop, which was a toggle and went into permanent OFF state. Saw that with the bluetooth switch togglrf ON as well, tracking down why smart phone battery life went down when working from home. The laptop was trying to mate with the phone. -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: HD Video editing
Jonathan Allen wrote: Ed Greshko said: A quick test shows that avidemux can edit the file. I've not checked to see if some components from RPM Fusion are required. And, I've not check to see if there is any loss in quality when standard defaults are used to copy the video. For the ignorant among us, I want to copy/convert an MTS file to standard MPEG. How can I do this? Is this something avidemux can do? Jonathan Yes, assuming you know what standard MPEG you want, or are happy with the defaults. That's probably fine unless you need to match some finicky player like early video iPods. Alternately you can look at ffmpeg. -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: HD Video editing
Anders Wegge Keller wrote: On Fri, 22 Aug 2014 18:07:36 +0800 Ed Greshko ed.gres...@greshko.com wrote: On 08/22/14 18:05, Ed Greshko wrote: A quick test shows that avidemux can edit the file. I've not checked to see if some components from RPM Fusion are required. And, I've not check to see if there is any loss in quality when standard defaults are used to copy the video. Ooops... Just realized that avidemux-qt does come from RPM Fusion Free. I'm not a Fedora-purist, so rpmfusion is fine. A quick check show that I can open and convert the file to other formats. But the timestamp in the stream is missing. It's encoded as a subtitle strem in the videofile, but I can't get that to show. Also, what are the editing capabilities of avidemux? If I want to assemble a complete video from several parts of the input, and add crossfades or other transitions, captions, overlayes and so on, will avidemux still be the proper choice? avidecode is easiest to use as a cut and snip editor, other choices have been posted. You can also look at ffmpeg, which is nice for bulk convert tasks. I have found avidecode does the best job of the tools I have used in terms of keeping the sound and audio in sync, ffmpeg with async option comes right behind, and has some offset options which are sometimes helpful if the out of sync is a constant in the source material. -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: systemd never starts ntpd.service even though it is enabled
Thomas Horsley wrote: Probably this: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/users/2014-July/451332.html Thanks, this is undoubtedly why I have had to start (or restart) a bunch of stuff after the net-fs is working. My rc.local is basically a while net-not-up; do sleep 1 done stuff that failed Have to look and see how hard it is to go back to sysvinit, which is dumb but reliable within its limited capabilities. -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: 4 USB TTL uarts on a USB hub - keeping them straight
Robert Moskowitz wrote:
On 08/22/2014 05:06 PM, Joe Zeff wrote:
On 08/22/2014 02:00 PM, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
I found out about the lsusb command.
It is reporting that they all have the same ID:
Of course they do. They all have the same characteristics so there's nothing
to tell them apart until you attach something to them.
They are by the same company and I bought a lot of 5, so they are the same. But
no burnt in USB device number. Nothing like RFID for USB devices. Sigh.
Thus I need to bring up screen and get the host to respond to figure out which
host is which ttyusb.
That sounds wrong. I'm not saying I'm sure it's wrong, but I working on a system
which was using a setup like that for status displays. They found four extra
video screens really confusing to set up, and had some serial terminals around
to use. From memory, they did a rule in
/etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-{something}.rules
and that always gave the right names to the same devices.
I saw this in action, but I didn't set it up, I'm still looking for an easy to
understand doc on multiple monitor setup, because I do it at most once a year
when I get paid to relearn it. ;-)
--
Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com
We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from
the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot
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Re: F20 is fubar
Chris Murphy wrote: I'll answer the question I wish you had asked (classic politician's strategy): It's well understood that wireless is something of a CF on linux in general. So I'd say this is both Not News and yes that sucks. You're probably best off wired for starters to get kernel, wpa_supplicant, NetworkManager and their dependencies updated. It is good that the networking comes up on boot, however it would be nice, when the system encountered a nfs mount in the fstab, it would mount them before completing the boot process. Absolutely true, but honestly I would settle for an option in fstab to manually provide that info. Just as there is a noauto option, an option use-net would be good, and if something is to be mounted on another filesystem, that should be delayed, not errored out. This might be better setup with systemd.mount or systemd.automount than with fstab so that you can specify that networking be pulled in before trying to do the mount. Maybe someone could argue that systemd-fstab-generator should be creating .mount units this way automatically from fstab when the filesystem is NFS, but I don't know a lot about this and is a question for a systemd-devel search. Me, I'll argue that the mounts should all be in fstab and work. I'm not against options to clarify what I expect, but having to edit a bunch of files really makes administration complex, which is a synonym for error-prone. I have long felt that Fedora distro sometimes fails to consider complexity, because developers deal with one environment and aren't in the real world, with Windows, AIX, HP-UX, IOS, and maybe firewalls using BSD. Simple and easy to use have a real impact on TCO for the typical mixed bag of a corporate environment. Glad to know everything is working now. Chris Murphy -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Jitsi - Open Source Video Calls and Chat, Web Conferences, Desktop Sharing, Secure communications, Multi Platform, 32 64 bit version
Ranjan Maitra wrote: On Fri, 20 Jun 2014 15:44:10 +0200 poma pomidorabelis...@gmail.com wrote: On 20.06.2014 13:58, Ranjan Maitra wrote: On Fri, 20 Jun 2014 13:52:39 +0200 poma pomidorabelis...@gmail.com wrote: For those who do not wait: https://jitsi.org/ Thanks! So, I have never used jitsi. Can I use it to communicate with these confused souls using skype? Ranjan Jitsi certainly supports SIP. ;) Sorry, poma: I don't know what SIP means. THis is you, but you have to be less cryptic for me to make sense!:-) Or you could broaden your understanding with Google or wikipedia... -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Fedora Present and Future: a Fedora.next 2014 Update (Part I,?“Why?”)
Chris Murphy wrote: On Mar 25, 2014, at 2:41 AM, lee l...@yun.yagibdah.de wrote: Chris Murphy li...@colorremedies.com writes: What I ought to do is not QA Manual Partitioning anymore and just let the people who actually think they need or want it do all the testing and bug reporting for it and let it become whatever it becomes. Most of the size reporting problems like this are non-contiguous sections of free space being added up and reported as Available space; but the request is for a partition size greater than the largest contiguously available space. Maybe it begins with the installer messing together all the disks in some weird way rather than to treat them separately and just let you partition them the way you want to. IIRC, there wasn`t even a way to tell it which partition to put where. It is possible although the UI isn't obvious. You click on the mount point in question, and then there is this 3rd or 4th button under the mount points section that looks like a wrench and screwdriver (?) that you click. And that brings up a dialog where you choose which drive that mount point's underlying partition appears on. You say this as if having to dig down to get at what should be the first thing was reasonable. Even you admit it isn't obvious. Why not? It was. The makers of the installer can always look into this list and see what ppl say about the installer and learn from that. No they will not do this, and it's inappropriate to even suggest it. That you don't get that simply means you're ignorant of how the process works. The process does not include listening to users. Bug reports are not suited for this, and complaining that ppl don`t make enough of them doesn`t get you anywhere. Filing a bug report is the process. That's it. It works this way for everything: gnome, kde, and even commercial projects do it this way. They do not have developers hanging out in user forums ever. Sometimes QA people hang out in user forums. So how will filing a bug report help, when the issue isn't that it fails to perform as intended, but that the intended UI is, by design,in-obvious and hard to use? This is how I know your problem isn't really serious, because it's so unimportant to you, you won't lift a finger to contribute to any improvement. Why should I help you since you won't even help yourself? How much attention and fixing do you think that would get? It`ll probably be closed with WONTFIX, one reason being that what is said here doesn`t refers much more to installers from F17 to F19. It will be closed with NOTABUG, because it works as intended. Poor design is not a bug. Those two above sentences are as close as memory allows to a direct quote of what a developer told me on another matter. Perhaps the installer of F20 has be re-designed from scratch, at least when it comes to partitioning, and now works fine. The installer is redesigned as of Fedora 18. And therefore a bug report suggesting a rededign (or roll back to the old, easy to use,) installer is not happening. you just do country and keyboard setup --- which is missing in Fedoras installer, there was no way to tell it that I have a German keyboard --- Fedora 18, 19 and 20 have a keyboard spoke in the installer which is how you tell it you want to use a German keyboard layout. Whatever they might have, I tried several times (because I had to start over many times because it refused to do the partitioning) to tell the installer of F19 that I have a German keyboard, and there was no way. OK well I just tried it on Fedora 19 Netinstall and Fedora 20 Live Desktop and I could easily choose a German keyboard, so I don't know what you're doing wrong. It's right there under Localization in the Keyboard option on the main menu right after choosing language. I don`t even know what you mean by spoke. You boot the life system, search for install to find the installer, then you get an icon and start the installer, and pretty soon you get stuck with trying to do the partitioning. Hub = the main menu that comes after language selection. On the hub are spokes which are paths for various things like Time Date and Keyboard and Installation Destination. In English we would call that a menu item -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Fedora Present and Future: a Fedora.next 2014 Update (Part I,?“Why?”)
Joe Zeff wrote: On 03/25/2014 12:10 PM, Powell, Michael wrote: I disagree; if a user is presented with the following filesystem choices, btrfs, ext2, ext3, ext4, JFS, reiser4, reiserFS, and ZFS, and each is presented equally with a single paragraph describing its benefits, unless the user has prior knowledge about what is the best choice for the intended installation goal, they're most likely going to spend a great deal of time reading each paragraph. If you simplify the choices to 4 instead of 8, the user has less paragraphs to read and can make a decision faster. Agreed. However, it might be a good compromise to list only the most common selections, with a button marked Advanced Options (There's probably a better label, but if so, I can't think of it right now.) containing the rest. Beginners will, most likely, avoid that, but those who need/want the more specialized file systems will still have access to them. This is absolutely just what is needed. Any hope it could get into fc21? If I could pick three things for some future release, they would be: - better install for controlling allocation of storage by device (but keep the serial number visible!!) - install without using network, even if available (because slow nets and/or per-byte charges prohibit upgrade to current) - a more minimal minimal install would be nice. Anyway, having access to full control, somewhere easy to find, would probably solve many complaints. Thanks for listening. -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Fedora Present and Future: a Fedora.next 2014 Update (Part I,?“Why?”)
Powell, Michael wrote:
It doesn`t give you choices. It leaves you in the dark about that it is somehow
possible to use an non-gui installer and to do a minimal install. It leaves you
in the dark about what exactly happens when you do the partitioning and
with trying to figure out how get the partitioning you want.
As I said before, the entire installer was rebuilt to promote a more laid back
approach. The user can choose the order they wish to customize / experience the
GUI installation instead of being forced down a specific path. There might be a
couple mandatories, but for the most part it's all about choice.
A non-gui installation is not something that the majority of users will choose
so it's not apparent, but if you want that method, here you go:
http://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/20/html/Installation_Guide/ch-guimode-x86.html#idm219166212128
Thank you, I'll look at this. It's also possible some of the issues mentioned
come from installing off a live CD instead of an install disk. I'm assuming that
what life disk meant...
Partitioning took me about three hours with the installer of F19, with a very
simple setup and not even data to preserve and neither RAID, nor
encryption, and it was only possible after I created the partitions outside the
installer. There was no way to do it with the installer, it kept saying there
isn`t enough room despite there was plenty, and it did what it wanted rather
than what I wanted.
It was seriously awful. It would have taken 10--15 minutes with the Debian
installer.
I definitely think the usability of the partitioning scheme in the current
installer needs work, but as I stated earlier, I think some people are just
griping about the change instead of there actually being an issue; although, it
does sounds like you actually had an issue with it not detecting the correct
size / free space of your drives. You might want to submit a defect, because in
comparison, I have a multi-drive setup with LUKs encryption and I can have both
drives wiped and start all over with encryption in less than a minute or if I
want to retain one disk scheme but clobber the other it takes about 3 minutes.
On this we agree, it needs a manual partition mode which really does just that,
allows the user to create and remove partitions, share partitions between
release versions installed, etc. The old installer wasn't perfect at this, I
have booted live {CD,USB} and partitioned the drives manually, as mentioned
above, but that was some really complex layout. I don't consider sharing /home
and SWAP between two bootable releases to be so complex it must be done in rc.local.
The computer industry knows that more and more people want installations to be
less scary and faster. This trend has been seen in the evolution of the Windows
installer, MacOS, most Linux distros, and even iOS or Android. There are going
to be some Linux distros that don't embrace this, you mentioned Debian and I'm
sure slackware and Arch won't either, but in the end it's all about attracting
more users to the product. The choices are there, but us hardcore users just
have to look more since we're the minority.
One of my issues with Fedora is that at times the make it easier flag is
waved, and other times the marching song is we are cutting edge. There really
seems to be division in the policy, or an assumption that choice and easy
are somehow mutually exclusive.
Easier install means a good default, and clear unambiguous ways to do complex
configurations. Note, I don't suggest that simple or easy are requirements,
but ways to see the raw hardware clearly and tell the OS how to utilize it seem
to fit unambiguous perfectly.
--
Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com
We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from
the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot
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Re: Fedora Present and Future: a Fedora.next 2014 Update (Part I, “Why?”)
Tim wrote: Allegedly, on or about 21 March 2014, Powell, Michael sent: The system name or hostname is important to networking; so, I can see why it's under networking, but I believe your frustration is more related to the lack of guidance and quality than anything else. Well, actually, for a lot of people, the system name is simply what they want to call the computer. The computer may not even be on a network, at all. There's certainly cause for having a process of naming the computer. For LANs, the hostname may not actually be set on the computer. A DHCP server may dole out IPs and hostnames, or simply dole out hostnames and a DNS lookup discovers what name is given to that IP. In that scenario there's some logic to using the network configuration to fill in the name. Though there's still the reverse case, where I want to name a computer, and let the rest of the network find out what my name is, from me (well, /this/ computer, not actually me, personally). This is useful in a large site, but also in virtual machines. I have a single VM image which works thus: - set MAC on startup - DHCP returns IP and name from MAC - rc.local uses the name to start services on the VM, dhcp, mail, nntp, dns, pop, etc. - can include dedicated user machine or app, network mounting other partitions as needed. -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Fedora Present and Future: a Fedora.next 2014 Update (Part I,?“Why?”)
Paul Cartwright wrote: On 03/26/2014 01:32 AM, Robin Laing wrote: I`m not an expert with Fedoras installers in any way. This is simply my user experience. Maybe the user experience the installer provides should be different. It is hidden. I do use it. If you were trying the live disk, then I believe that the manual partitioning isn't there. I was told on this list to use the full DVD. Yes, I use DVD as an install medium. There is a reason. I came from Debian recently with Fedora 20. I was told to use the net install ISO, I did. I have windows and another linux distro installed and used manual partitioning without a problem. I have 2 drives and used my existing /home on drive A and installed Fedora on drive B. works fine. I can only say that I am in awe of your ability to do this using the installer. After many attempts to get this working, I have taken to install with a dummy user, then edit fstab to get the /home mount, then mounting, then adding the user(s) with the UID they need to have and using the existing home directory for each. -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Fedora Present and Future: a Fedora.next 2014 Update (Part I, Why?)
the error message that the disk can't be partitioned, and that I had to obliterate the whole drive and reinstall OS X from scratch in order to install Windows side by side. So really, anaconda is extremely tolerant and I think that's something of a problem too. It probably should be disqualifying a lot of nut case layouts, and just saying no. And would it be easier to test improvements on an existing project (yes), or more responsible not to release software which doesn't work (yes, again)? In trying to install, it erased one of the spare-root partitions and was unable to recreate it in the available empty space. And you have a bug for this? It's *really* difficult to get the installer to inadvertently delete partitions. It requires two clicks: selection, then deletion. For guided partitioning, the button is labeled delete whereas the button in manual partitioning is labeled as a minus symbol. Is there a case where a partition of a certain partition type will be considered up for grabs and used without asking? Real question, not being snarky, I think I've seen this as well, the boot partition of one install was reused as the boot for a newer total install, and had it asked I would not have clicked a [reuse-partition] button. One thing that some people don't easily grok is that Manual Partitioning isn't partitioning oriented. Why not? And why isn't there a mode which is, so the user can set up ther system as they need it? It's mount point oriented. And that's because mount points can be partitions, subvolumes, logical volumes, or md block devices. It's not correct to call all of those things partitions. But all of them ultimately are assigned mount points. This is a top down view, rather than the typical bottom up view where you always have partitions, and then maybe you have raid devices or LVs or subvolumes. The idea is to think less about the details of the layout and more about the outcome you want. It doesn't seem to know about using nbd, either, or creating array with a deliberately missing member (nbd to be added later, write mostly). I don't fault the lack of nbd support, I do the missing way to create RAID with missing members. Did the install team ever consider just letting people drop into a shell and use command line tools to do a tiny bit of magic, then rescan the physical devices again to be sure the configuration is understood? It might save a huge pile of user frustration and cries for support of flexible configuration options. This is understandably confusing if you're really familiar with storage stack creation. But most people aren't. Nevertheless, one of the first steps is drive selection, which is about the most bottom layer there is. And then the very next step is the top most layer, which are the mount points. So it's an unexpected context shift from bottom to top, seemingly without any conversation about what's happening in the middle. It's a different approach. If you remain attached that what you're doing in Manual Partitioning is in fact partitioning, you'll continue to be frustrated. Then why not provide manual partitioning, or rename the mode to something pretending you have any say in how we do install? Frustrated is exactly the issue here. Now, if you didn't file a bug about your anecdote, I want you to imagine me staring at you with a look of really? Because this much effort complaining yet no bug report? How exactly do you expect it to get better? I've been a user since fc3 or 4, and I have learned that complaints about design issues are treated as suggestions for future enhancement rather than bugs. If the software functions as designed it's not a bug, it's a design decision. I have said that on (rare) occasions, although I try to say the software doesn't currently do that. -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Fedora Present and Future: a Fedora.next 2014 Update (Part I, Why?)
Tom Horsley wrote: On Sat, 22 Mar 2014 16:40:36 + Liam Proven wrote: Meantime, for further Fedora eval, it's going in a VirtualBox. Sad, but that's all it seems able to handle. Actually, that's the key to installing on disk in a sensibly created partition layout: Install in a virtual machine 1st, then copy the VM disk image to a real disk and fiddle with the grub config and fstab. I install that way all the time now since the new installer appeared, and find it actually make things lots more convenient since I don't have to have the machine down while I'm doing the install. Because of the write speed of USB sticks, I find that's a good way to do a portable install as well, create a drive image and install on that. When done, then you just copy to the USB stick. -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: poweroff command reboots?
Aero Maxx wrote: Hi Everyone, I have an issue where the poweroff command reboots my system. Using /sbin/shutdown -h also reboot the system. If you want to powerdown the -P (powerdown) option is often useful, the -h (halt) gets to choose if it does halt or powerdown, and halt often reboots. I am unsure whats causing this or how to go about finding the cause, I am not sure if its something I have done when I installed fedora or not. Pressing the power button on the front of my cause also makes the system reboot and not shutdown as expected. Thanks Daniel. -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: IPv6 mtu restriction
Robert Moskowitz wrote: On 03/27/2014 03:40 PM, Rick Stevens wrote: On 03/27/2014 09:50 AM, Robert Moskowitz issued this missive: This is from a Fedora 20 client testing to a Centos 6.5 server. I can do a ping6 with no problems, but I cannot 'ssh -6' to the server (ssh -4 works). I have reason to suspect the challenge is in my PPPoE link with a restricted MTU size that v6's PMTU is not working right with. So my question is: Is there a way to specify the MTU size for things like ssh (and http) to use? The odds are that your PPoE stuff has problems with IPV6 addressing (as many things do). I really doubt the MTU has anything to do with it since MTU sets the maximum size of a packet and has nothing to do with the addressing mechanisms. You could have a router that doesn't like big packets, but that would affect both IPV4 and IPV6. ping6 works in both directions no problem. Addressing is right. I actually have my own /48 allocation here. It seems to be something with the firewall. You can set the myu using the route command (or ip, if that's what you know). The option is mss, used to set the payload size, when mtu discovery doesn't work due to firewall. See 'man route' mss section for some discussion. -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: no default mta [was Re: Fedora Present and Future: a Fedora.next 2014 Update (Part I, “Why?”)]
Rick Stevens wrote: On 03/21/2014 10:30 AM, Matthew Miller issued this missive: On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 10:27:02AM -0700, Joe Zeff wrote: If you do need to use sendmail, and your ISP is blocking Port 25, it's not that hard to configure things to use a smarthost. As an example, I have my own (vanity) domain and use its mail servers, over Port 587. I also have sendmail configured to use that server and port, along with the appropriate username/password. If anybody out there needs to do the same thing, instructions are at http://www.zeff.us/SMTPAuth.txt Absolutely. But since you need to configure it before it's useful, it's arguably actively harmful to have it running by default. That's all. No one is removing MTAs from the distro. I agree that an MTA needs to be installed unless you're installing a server (and Fedora really doesn't offer that model anymore). For quite a while, Fedora had installed an MTA and started it. By default, it was configured to only listen to localhost on port 25 so it was more-or-less innocuous. The fact that F19 stopped installing an MTA by default caught a lot of people off guard. Sure did. And made it hard to get sendmail working usefully, IIRC both sendmail.mc and firewall were set to force you to talk only to yourself. Unlike others, however, I find the new system logging and analysis tools cumbersome and painful to use. Having a program send an email to me if it encounters issues is FAR superior to me having to plow through the logs to see if it ran correctly or not. In general I like logs, but that's me. That way I can go through and get what I want with perl, or grep, or sed, or whatever I need. Easier than making emails recombine for a moving overview. -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Fedora Present and Future: a Fedora.next 2014 Update (Part I, “Why?”)
Tom Horsley wrote: On Fri, 21 Mar 2014 13:13:28 -0400 Matthew Miller wrote: Saying something sucks isn't very helpful. Not only is it needlessly negative, it is intangible. Name a real problem and we can talk about it. Every single aspect of it is a real problem. In the dictionary they have a picture of it next to the word disaster. The whole random wheel/spoke thing is an invitation to forget to do something important. And who the hell would think that network would be the spoke where you set the system name? Why is the screen full of blank space and cryptic meaningless icons when it could use some of that space for valuable hints in actual text you can read? I'd love to give detail of how badly it sucks, but just as an example, I had a machine with fc14 and fc17 installed. They shared /home, swap, and /local/appgrafix. Trying to get rid of fc17 and put in fc19 or fc20 also sharing those partitions was a long futile endeavor trying to find the do what I say and shut up option. Nice to protect people who don't know what they're doing, but the whole effort to overcome the protection was a waste of half a day using man pages, shared doc, wiki pages, search engines, and mailing list postings. On the specific you do give, I'm pretty confident in saying that you're actually wrong. And therein lies the problem. Everyone who worked on partitioning has been congratulating each other for so long you can't see any problems. The partitioning is actually absolutely impossible to use: I won't waste time agreeing point by point, I'll just agree that anyone who didn't write this or help develop it is likely to do things the way you wanted or go elsewhere. And frankly if I wanted someone making decisions for me I would use Windows. If there are multiple disks, it provides you only the size, model, and serial number to distinguish them, as though everyone has that memorized. Your only actually choice is to pick them all and hope you can see a clue later. After picking which disks to partition, you are presented with a single choice: You can press the Done button even though you are not anywhere close to done, or you can say Screw this and install a different distro. Should you work up the courage to press the Done button, you then reach the next layer of total obfuscation. It names the partitions by what operating systems are installed on them. Who the hell thinks that way? And where do I look for partitions that don't have any operating system on them. Why not name them by the biggest video file that lives on the partition or some other random choice? The adjectives intuitive or useful cannot be applied to any part of this interface. It is absolute and total junk. Our only hope is for redhat to use this in the next RHEL and then we can probably get changes as wave after wave of enterprise users descend on redhat HQ with pitchforks and torches. I hate to say it, but enterprise users will either use it as the great crimson chapeau thinks best, or figure out how to game the system, or go to another distro. Only the last and least desirable action will be visible to management. Doing real installs on real machines, complex stuff with hardware and software RAID, other things already on the disk, etc, installs by a mix of people coming from Windows admin, old hands who expect the old way, and fresh from RHEL6 without any help but the docs which come with the machine. Very few admins do a lot of installs, at peak I doubt I did more than 30 a year, and almost all servers, so few will be install gurus. If Fedora is to be the icebreaker for RHEL, it has to be better. -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Fedup Failure
Chris Murphy wrote: On Dec 17, 2013, at 7:47 PM, Joe Zeff j...@zeff.us wrote: On 12/17/2013 06:34 PM, Mark Bidewell wrote: I tried upgrading from Fedora 19 to 20. When the System Upgrade task starts I get a failure around /run/initramfs (it moves fast). Then it boots back to Fedora 19. Any thoughts on how to debug? There are several threads on this at fedoraforum.org. One suggestion is to update fedup to version 0.8 and try again. Detail version is here: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/test-announce/2013-December/000842.html It includes renaming two folders so that files downloaded with 0.7 don't have to be redownloaded by 0.8. Chris Murphy Thanks much for this, my success with fedup has been so slight (worked 1 of 11) that I have gone to the yum upgrade route. So far 4 for 4. I like yum better, it puts the rpms where they get updated to my local repository, that makes every future upgrade or update faster, as any package I download is only pulled once. -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Post upgrade woes
I did fc18-19 upgrade via yum (having had many failures with fedup) and one issue and two questions remain. Issue, XFCE doesn't save the desktop when I logout and ask for save. I have a console open, it isn't opened on next login, but was with fc18. thoughts? Q1: I can't find where to install or configure alternate boot animations. Can someone point me to the info, or even give me a search string which will find it in either google or fedora wiki? Q2: is there a way to make fedora-upgrade use an iso (I did a hack so I could specify). -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: yum update
Michael Schwendt wrote:
On Sun, 01 Dec 2013 15:38:18 +0100, Patrick Dupre wrote:
Hello,
ON a fedora 19, everey time I launch
yum update, I get:
-- Processing Dependency: /usr/bin/nxssh for package: qtnx-0.9-16.fc19.i686
-- Finished Dependency Resolution
Error: Package: qtnx-0.9-16.fc19.i686 (@fedora)
Requires: /usr/bin/nxssh
Removing: nx-3.5.0-17.fc19.i686 (@fedora)
Not found
Obsoleted By: nx-libs-3.5.0.21-3.fc19.i686 (updates)
Not found
You could try using --skip-broken to work around the problem
** Found 28 pre-existing rpmdb problem(s), 'yum check' output follows:
intel-compilerpro-common-192-13.1-5.noarch has missing requires of lsb = ('0',
'3.0', None)
It seems that there are several issues here.
What should I remove? nx? qtnx? nxclient?
freenx-server and -client are installed.
Working around package bugs like this may be quick fix for you,
but more productive would be to open a ticket in bugzilla.
I generally don't, most package bugsare caused by delayed updates on a mirror
and will change before investigation. After checking the rpmdb, time usuall
fixes the issue.
Yes, I know, not in all cases...
Stuff you may want to use more often:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/
- https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/search/nx-libs
http://bugz.fedoraproject.org/nx-libs
- https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1034046
--
Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com
We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from
the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot
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Re: OT: cron help
Gregory Hosler wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 12/13/2013 09:02 AM, T.C. Hollingsworth wrote: On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 3:31 PM, Mike Wright mike.wri...@mailinator.com wrote: Hi all, I'm trying to execute a command once a minute. As a test I place this: 0,1 * * * * /bin/ping -c1 w.x.y.z /dev/null 21 in /etc/cron.d/everyMinute but nothing is happening. I've done service crond restart. Any ideas? That 0,1 tells cron to run your command at N:00 and N:01 every hour. You want 0-59 instead. or */1 e.g. */1 * * * * /bin/ping -c1 w.x.y.z /dev/null 21 All the best, Don't think that does what you want, */5 is every 5th time, but /1 is a NOP, I think. All asterisks should be once a minute. - -Greg -T.C. - -- +-+ Please also check the log file at /dev/null for additional information. (from /var/log/Xorg.setup.log) | Greg Hosler ghos...@redhat.com| +-+ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.15 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iEYEARECAAYFAlKqYJkACgkQ404fl/0CV/RyVACgzzsXcWfi3efH9pd7kdj+G/Mq jOsAoLGutetMqZDlP6jH4qLbHkQVVMmX =fSMA -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: International phonetic alphabet fonts.
Rolf Turner wrote: I apologise for the lack of articulateness in this question; I am floundering a bit. Basically --- how can I obtain a font which will render the symbols of the international phonetic alphabet? 1 - find the font in any supported format, like TrueType (file.ttf) 2 - drop it in your .fonts directory -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: install fedora via usb stick
Pasha R wrote: An issue I recently encountered: USB created with dd or LiveUSB creator might not boot on EFI systems. The only tool that worked for me was livecd-iso-to-disk with --efi option (required me to add --format, too, so it is destructive). I thought the LiveCD had the appropriate UEFI stuff already, I have booted the CD on UEFI machines, so I didn't have to think about it. So far all the machines I use have worked with the dd to USB, although that doesn't give you persistent storage. Been playing with fc20beta3 Live in just that way. Don't forget untbootin as well, another tool to build USB. On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 10:21 AM, Ian Malone ibmal...@gmail.com mailto:ibmal...@gmail.com wrote: On 11 December 2013 22:23, D. Hugh Redelmeier h...@mimosa.com mailto:h...@mimosa.com wrote: The LiveUSB creator lets you 2) create a persistent store so changes you make on the live � �system will be there next time you boot. � �(But I've had some live USBs stop working, perhaps due to this.) A persistent overlay is used to do this, but it isn't re-writeable: it accumulates changes. Once you run out of space to record any more then things go wrong. (There's an option in the command line tool, but not LiveUSB, to add a home filesystem which is a normal loopback mount.) -- imalone http://ibmalone.blogspot.co.uk -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org mailto:users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: failed updates
Frank McCormick wrote: On 08/12/13 07:31 AM, Michael Schwendt wrote: On Sat, 7 Dec 2013 20:23:42 -0700, Chris Murphy wrote: http://mirror.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/fedora/linux/updates/19/i386/repodata/repomd.xml: [Errno -1] repomd.xml does not match metalink for updates Trying other mirror. I'm getting this message for pretty much every mirror on an F20 system, it seems to be an actual problem. However, dnf uses slightly different metadata and it's still working where yum fails. That's a new bug in yum-3.4.3-119 for both F19 and F20 with updates-testing. The -120 update fixes that: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/search/yum Well that solves the problem. What I don't understand is that so few reported the difficulties. Michael you saved the day for me again ! Thanks May I take an educated guess? If you have no IPv6, no problem, IPv4 is used.So you never see the problem.My problem was that I do have IPv6, but got it by getting a cheap (ie. slow) connection from a 2nd ISP. So yum uses IPv6 at 1Mbit instead of IPv4 at 20Mbit. Really slow updates until I shut down IPv6 during upgrades. HTH -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Can't stand Gnome3, I think it's time for Fedora to move on
Eddie G. O'Connor Jr. wrote: On 11/26/2013 04:44 AM, Andrew Haley wrote: On 11/22/2013 01:05 AM, Rahul Sundaram wrote: You know what you prefer and it is available in the repo. It shouldn't matter much to you what the default is. I don't think that's entirely true. Those of us who use a lot of systems and support others need a reasonably sane set of defaults. We don't want to be in a Windows 8 situation where you can't do anything with a machine before you've spent 20 minutes installing add-ons and changing defaults. Andrew. I agree with this as long as it doesn't remove choice from the menu, if all of a sudden i have no choice but to use, say...LXDE (which I'm not too fond of!) then I see us heading down the same path as Windows. but maybe if there was an extra step in the installer?like just before you do the reboot into the first boot screen?...offering you ONLY like maybe 6 DE's? (Cinnamon / XFCE / LXDE / Gnome / MATE / KDE...this way you can install as many machines with the same default settings with no juggling act to make sure they're all the samesort of a standard' without the standard overhead!.. The issue is not to offer many, but to offer AT LEAST ONE which runs on dumb video, so people who can't run gnome have an easy option and will be able to install another DE without having to try to get GNOME classic without knowing GNOME, or install from command line. And there should be a WARNING at install time if the video hardware is questionable, suggesting installing another DE first. Once you can see the screen you can take it from there, experience is needed otherwise. I still find about 40-60% of my machines using Radeon or Nvidea will be more stable with the vendor drivers. -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Better way to upgrade fc18-fc19
Suvayu Ali wrote: On Fri, Nov 22, 2013 at 07:05:17PM -0500, Bill Davidsen wrote: Is there a better way than fedup, and why is it so slow? The last few upgrades, I went by the yum method. Despite all the warnings on the wiki, this seems to be the smoothest of all upgrade methods I have tried since F10. Hope this helps, Appreciated! Having just wasted a lot of time with fedup, it may, I'll go check the wiki in the morning. On the first try I started with about 2G free, and got this: 18-fedup-64:root time fedup --iso /mnt/10space/Downloads/ISO/Fedora/Fedora- 19/Fedora-19-x86_64-DVD/Fedora-19-x86_64-DVD.iso setting up repos... getting boot images... setting up update... finding updates 100% [=] testing upgrade transaction rpm transaction 100% [=] Upgrade test failed with the following problems: insufficient disk space need 395M free on / (447M free) fedup ERROR: Upgrade test failed. rpm transaction 100% [=] real1m35.615s user0m17.963s sys 0m3.339s 18-fedup-64:root Which wasn't obvious, since the error message appears to say I have more than I need. So I cleared more space and tried again, which ran to completion and told me to reboot. There was about a GB of stuff in the /var/tmp/fedora-upgrade tree, which was encouraging. I did the reboot, and the default boot option was Fedora upgrade, which started, put up a screen with a crawling white line, and when done booted back into Fedora18. Checking /boot there are no Fedora19 images, and /var/tmp/fedora-upgrade is now empty of all the stuff it had there before the reboot. Nothing is changed as far as I can see. I got this behavior with both a network upgrade and upgrade from an iso image with no visible network activity. I'm very ready to try the yum method, since fedup is no more functional for me than ever, less actually, since it did eventually complete the last time I updated these machines. -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Can't stand Gnome3, I think it's time for Fedora to move on
Joe Zeff wrote: On 11/22/2013 04:29 PM, Bill Davidsen wrote: This is a VERY good point which I had overlooked, the hardware requirements of GNOME are much higher that XFCE (and I believe MATE) and represent choice which is very likely to frustrate potential converts. That's especially true if you consider that many people are installing Linux on older computers, especially laptops, so as to get some more use out of computers that aren't up to running the latest versions of Windows. If they don't know about the various DEs and/or spins, they may just look at the requirements for Fedora with Gnome, see that they don't have the hardware to run it properly and give up. Maybe what we need is a beginner's spin that gives you a choice of DE, but grays out any choices that your system can't handle. It would probably have to be based on the full DVD installation, but with a specially modified version of Anaconda that checks your CPU, RAM, video and so on, to make sure that it offers you the correct choices. That is a brilliant idea, but why a beginners spin? Why shouldn't a major choice like UI deserve a screen at startup. And values which are unlikely to work could be identified so the installer is warned, giving some hope that at least one functional choice will be made. In my opinion every install should add one more choice to the boot menu, boot in VESA (simple) graphics mode. That way people who who have video cards which aren't supported by the open source video drivers can have a way to use their computers. Hopefully some features council will actually pick up these ideas and we can see them in FC20 or FC21. -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Can't stand Gnome3, I think it's time for Fedora to move on
Rahul Sundaram wrote: HI On Fri, Nov 22, 2013 at 7:54 PM, Joe Zeff wrote: That's especially true if you consider that many people are installing Linux on older computers, especially laptops, so as to get some more use out of computers that aren't up to running the latest versions of Windows. If they don't know about the various DEs and/or spins, they may just look at the requirements for Fedora with Gnome, see that they don't have the hardware to run it properly and give up. The requirements for the installer is more than any desktop environment in Fedora making Fedora not really a good choice for lower end systems anyway. Other than GNOME not running well on low end video, I haven't seen any issues with the installer through FC18, anyway. The upgrade process seems troubled (see my other thread) but the install has been good to me, all the way down to a laptop running a Pentium-M setup (which I love for its 17in screen and perfect touch on the keyboard). I have four ATOM system, none of which cost more than $300 to buy or build, and they work fine on 18, will try 19 one of these days. Not for gaming, and probably heavy graphics, rendering, etc, but for mail and browsing normal websites I have no issues. One handles two security cameras and a 8TB RAID array for backups, another is a firewall, etc. Caution noted, I'm aware that there are limitations, but a lot of us have modest graphics needs and if XFCE will install, that's all we need. -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Can't stand Gnome3, I think it's time for Fedora to move on
Rahul Sundaram wrote: On Fri, Nov 22, 2013 at 7:10 PM, Sanne Grinovero wrote: FWIW, I'm absolutely in love with Gnome3. Best thing ever happened to UI. That said, it would be nice indeed if users had a choice during installation, something simple like 3 screenshots to choose from. There are around a dozen choices here - GNOME (Shell and Classic), KDE, Xfce, MATE, LXDE, Sugar, GNU Step, Cinnamon, Enlightenment (both 17 and 16) and so on. It is hardly going to be simple to present 3 screenshots. The DVD image does have a few of them but it really is a waste of space to include all of them. Just install it from the repository or download the specific spin you want Perhaps this has been stated badly, the issue is that if a user doesn't know about the other options, or has small hardware, he can't Just install at all. If there were just a screen to offer any one of the light weight UI choices and warn that GNOME is not optimal for the hardware, that would do it. Only a few k of screen code, don't need more UI options that are present now, but even the two or three now present would be fine with thumbnails. Just default to something which will work on the system being installed, I'm certainly not asking for more than that. I admit that if MATE was ready for serious use when I went to XFCE I would have used that, but it's hardly work changing at this point, for my usage practices. Sorry if it sounded as if we ere asking for more than warning the user if GNOME won't work. -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Better way to upgrade fc8-fc19
I have has miserable luck with fedup, is there a better way, anything? I really don't want to leave this machine down for days, and the 18-19 on a test machine took about 36 hours to complete, and another 3-4 to redo all the scripts from the ones on other machines which all use ethN to meaningless interface names. In 18 I just changed a single script to use (or not use) biosnames, and all was well, but on my test conversion to 19 that doesn't work, or the file was rewritten, and I finally used the name which changes every time the machine gets shuffled a bit. Is there a better way? -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com 'Nothing to hide' does not imply 'nothing to fear' - me ATT could not seriously contend that a reasonable entity in its position could have believed that the alleged domestic dragnet was legal. -judge Vaughn R. Walker of the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of California, EFF vs. ATT -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Better way to upgrade fc18-fc19
NOTE: an early draft of this question was sent somehow, ignore it I have has miserable luck with fedup, is there a better way, anything? I really don't want to leave this machine down for days, and the 18-19 on a test machine took about 36 hours to complete, and another 3-4 to redo all the scripts from the ones on other machines which all use ethN to meaningless interface names. In 18 I just changed a single script to use (or not use) biosnames, and all was well, but on my test conversion to 19 that doesn't work, or the file was rewritten, and I finally used the name which changes every time the machine gets shuffled a bit. Is there a better way than fedup, and why is it so slow? -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com 'Nothing to hide' does not imply 'nothing to fear' - me ATT could not seriously contend that a reasonable entity in its position could have believed that the alleged domestic dragnet was legal. -judge Vaughn R. Walker of the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of California, EFF vs. ATT -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Dual boot Fedora -- Windows 8
Andre Costa wrote: Hi, I have the following partitions on a 1TB disk: * 1M BIOS boot partition * 500M Linux boot partition * 733G Linux LVM partition (Fedora 19) * 200G unused space I would like to install Windows 8 on this last partition. Anyone knows if this will mess up with my current boot manager? Can Windows 8 coexist with GRUB? How comfortable are you with virtual machines, assuming that your CPU supports it? You could set Windows in a VM on that partition, and the overhead is minimal enough that it shouldn't hurt unless you really beat on Windows. Just a thought, -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Can't stand Gnome3, I think it's time for Fedora to move on
Tim wrote: Allegedly, on or about 22 November 2013, Rahul Sundaram sent: What I was trying to convey is that If I am as an user unaware of other desktop environments, the defaults impact my experience a lot more than if I already know of the choices and have picked something that matches my preferences. The moment I pick something else, I have satisfied my need and the argument about defaults should really be considered in a more objective way than just as an expression of my preferences I'm of the opinion that the computer should work, as much as possible, out of the box. It shouldn't require high end graphics cards, and special drivers that we don't have (whether because you need to get them from an external repo, or that they just don't exist). The simpler windowing systems ought to be the defaults, and the more convoluted ones a deliberate choice for those who want to tart things up, and are prepared to go through the nightmares of trying to get 3D graphics acceleration to work. This is a VERY good point which I had overlooked, the hardware requirements of GNOME are much higher that XFCE (and I believe MATE) and represent choice which is very likely to frustrate potential converts. Let me make another point. MATE or XFCE are close enough to Windows 8 that almost anyone can use them. And from what I've seen, a lot of Win8 users are running in a similar UI, indicating others don't like Win8. The point is that no matter what other computer you have used, GNOME3 is not like that. There is a big learning curve before you know to hover here, and use ALT there, and do all the other stuff which just has to be learned. That makes a good case in my mind for choosing a default which is likely to work and be somewhat familiar. And speaking of fancying things up beyond practicality. Can we have a better bootloader than GRUB2? GRUB 1 was always a small bit of a pain to configure, but far less worse than LILO. GRUB 2 requires programming to customise, not just a slight tweak of one config file. My current bugbear is that it always loads some old kernel, rather than the latest, because it sorts them in a peculiar order. Top of the list isn't the latest, and picking number whatever as default isn't going to work after the next kernel update. I'm going to have to hand re-organise the grub2.cfg file after each time a kernel is updated, to get it to work sensibly. Why in hell is there no default line saying what you want, or is there somewhere and I haven't stumbled on it because a kernel update doesn't set that? -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: WTF happened to ssh?
Roger wrote: If I'm unsure I sometimes just type the ssh password in a new terminal or gedit page then copy and paste to the ssh terminal and hit enter almost straight away. Making sure not to copy spaces before or after the password. Have found that freehand typing password in ssh fails occasionally. Roger Write it on the screen a printing mode where anyone can see it? Really? What could possibly go wrong? May I suggest using key access only, and password the key locally? Then the password never goes over the network and you have a nice commented line in authorized_hosts in case you change or invalidate the key, not using a key for more than one computer? Can I suggest that, please? -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Better way to upgrade fc18-fc19
David wrote: On 11/22/2013 7:05 PM, Bill Davidsen wrote: NOTE: an early draft of this question was sent somehow, ignore it I have has miserable luck with fedup, is there a better way, anything? I really don't want to leave this machine down for days, and the 18-19 on a test machine took about 36 hours to complete, and another 3-4 to redo all the scripts from the ones on other machines which all use ethN to meaningless interface names. In 18 I just changed a single script to use (or not use) biosnames, and all was well, but on my test conversion to 19 that doesn't work, or the file was rewritten, and I finally used the name which changes every time the machine gets shuffled a bit. Is there a better way than fedup, and why is it so slow? My experience with Fedup is that it works. As long as you don't have some really 'strange', 3rd party, packages installed, that replace standard Fedora packages, and do not have any 'strange' repos enabled. Work it did, but it took about a day and a half to work, have no idea what it was doing. That's on a modest machine I know i7-950 quad, 32GB RAM, root on 128GB SSD (Intel, I think). I was hoping to have it sooner than that. Strange repos, like rpmfusion so graphics work or adobe because people have things in flash (work things) I have to see. I do have those. Maybe that's the issue, if I didn't need to USE the system, I could do without them :-( Thanks for the warning, maybe I can disable, upgrade, then put in the needed things from single user mode. -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: openssh-6.3p1-5.fc20 fails with EC_KEY_new_by_curve_name failed
Corinna Vinschen wrote: On Nov 11 20:44, Corinna Vinschen wrote: On Nov 11 12:14, Michael Cronenworth wrote: Corinna Vinschen wrote: Does anybody have an idea what the problem could be? Only ECC NIST Suite B curves were enabled in Fedora packages. If your keys use a different curve then they wouldn't work. If you call ssh-keygen -t ecdsa, there's no choice of curves to be made. An ECDSA openssh key should work on any machine which has ECDSA openssh keys enabled. In theory. If I generate a new ECDSA key with ssh-keygen from openssh-6.3p1-5, the error message is the same when trying to use that key. I see OpenSSL was patched a few days ago to enable another curve, but no update has been pushed yet. I hope that will fix it. I'm just a bit puzzled that nobody seems to have a problem yet. I can't believe I'm trying to do something unusual. That change, reenabling the ecdsa-sha2-nistp521 curves, in fact fixes the problem, since my ECDSA key is actually a 521 bit key. Policy to use those, or are you in the more secure camp on curves vs. legacy public keys? -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Fedora = the darker side of the Internet?
Jeff Gustafson wrote: On Fri, 2013-10-11 at 17:53 -0400, Bill Oliver wrote: Sigh. Yes, I know you have to go through 17 to get to 18, Mr. Harald. And, no, it's not just a matter of following instructions. In fact, almost nothing that requires significant technical skill is just a matter of following instructions. Arrogant savants forget the fact that they paid a lot of dues learning the little tricks that *aren't* in the instructions. Your tell, for instance, is that you brag about upgrading 20 machines from F9 to F18. You may not be willing to admit it, but I suspect *somewhere* in there, there were a few gliches. But, because you have done it a bunch of times, you know how to deal with them. That's very different that doing it for the first time. This page helps quite a bit: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Upgrading_Fedora_using_yum Note that is the live update via yum which can be a bit more trickier. I can't recall serious issues with upgrades using the normal upgrade procedure. I'm sure there have been some, but none that were serious enough to note. What do you consider normal upgrade? preupdate? fedup? vudo (sp?) or someone's scripts? It used to be easy, now in general it hangs some percent of the time, or takes many times the time to reinstall. If an upgrade won't complete in four hours on a 4 core, 32GB RAM, SSD system, it's hung, and advice to let it run is silly, the fedup procedure is worthless on many machines.Posts saying things like worked for me, be patient, finished in about 30 hours confirm that. ...Jeff -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Fedora = the darker side of the Internet?
Tim wrote: On Fri, 2013-10-11 at 00:00 -0300, Fernando Cassia wrote: But someone should tell them that there is plenty of light on RPM-land (considering they put Fedora, RHEL and CentOS in the same bag). I think you all missed their point about wanting an install that has a longer lifespan. They're jumping ship from Debian, and avoiding Red Hat derived distros, because they all change versions too often, and abandon prior releases too quickly for them. I understand how they feel. Yes, CentOS, et cetera, have long life span versions, too. But I haven't compared the length of theirs to the long term Ubuntu one. And if you already came from a Debian background, Ubuntu is a closer move than a Red Hat styled release. I would love to have just security bug fix on the system software for an extra year. I'm still running FC13, FC6 and RH8 in virtual machines because there are apps which are useful. Bless kvm. -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Fedora = the darker side of the Internet?
Reindl Harald wrote: Am 11.10.2013 12:40, schrieb Tim: On Fri, 2013-10-11 at 00:00 -0300, Fernando Cassia wrote: But someone should tell them that there is plenty of light on RPM-land (considering they put Fedora, RHEL and CentOS in the same bag). I think you all missed their point about wanting an install that has a longer lifespan. They're jumping ship from Debian, and avoiding Red Hat derived distros, because they all change versions too often, and abandon prior releases too quickly for them. I understand how they feel. that must be why RHEL/CentOS has a lifespan of 10 years Yes, CentOS, et cetera, have long life span versions, too. But I haven't compared the length of theirs to the long term Ubuntu one. they also did not otherwise they would not write bullshit like they are happy about 5 years support while Redhat has 10 years and a extended support of 13 years https://www.google.at/search?q=rhel+lifecycle and click on the first link https://access.redhat.com/site/support/policy/updates/errata/ no idea why people who can't use Google all the time spread FUD if you already came from a Debian background, Ubuntu is a closer move than a Red Hat styled release. which has *nothing* to do with the darker side of the Internet it's a matter of expierience and qualification There are a lot of people who don't want experience and qualifications, they want to use the computer. I really find Mint is the ideal OS for them, rather than Fedora. -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Fedora = the darker side of the Internet?
Tom Horsley wrote: On Fri, 11 Oct 2013 12:24:40 +0100 Ian Malone wrote: Ubuntu is increasingly being customised away from Debian. Yep. In fact if I wanted to pick something to point at as the dark side I'd take the Ubuntu unity desktop as the worst example of utter awfulness anywhere in linux. Gnome 3 is working hard to catch up, but even it has a long way to go before reaching the depth that unity has sunk to. GNOME3 is a badly written video game, hard to play, little benefit to experience, and no treasure anywhere. -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: 4in6 tunnel
William Brown wrote: Hi, I am currently attempting to run an experiment with a segment of my network that is ipv6 only. As such, I would like to run a 4 in 6 tunnel to allow my systems to connect to v4 systems. The ability to do this is described here: http://tldp.org/HOWTO/Linux+IPv6-HOWTO/x1373.html I would like to find a way to automate this process by the addition of these commands to my ifcfg-enp0s25 file. I have been reading the ifup files and cannot find an (obvious) method of doing this. Has anyone done this before? Has anyone got ideas on how to approach this. You should be able to put it in rc.local -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: how can i make restart not require root password
Jehan PROCACCIA wrote:
hello,
I've got hundred of fedora19 station installed on computer lab for our students.
these are self service multi-user stations, users needs to restart the station
whenever they want to
unfortunatly apparently polkit prevents them to restart when another user is
(or had been ?) connected .
I know it is a safe behavior, but we defenitively want to enable users to
restart the station themself whenever they want to, but without requiring the
root password !
indeed, often student leave the room without disconecting (bad !) , then the
screen locks but still allows someone else to connect, but that second student
then cannot restart :-( .
I've tried lot of things:
http://askubuntu.com/questions/1190/how-can-i-make-shutdown-not-require-admin-password
apparently .pkla files a deprecated , and I confirmed that creating a
/etc/polkit-1/localauthority/50-local.d/allow_all_users_to_restart.pkla
containi
ng Action=org.freedesktop.consolekit.system.restart-multiple-users
AllowActive=yes doesn't work
then, from #fedora IRC I've been proposed to create rules in
/etc/polkit-1/rules.d :
http://paste.fedoraproject.org/36844/
[root@b06-02 rules.d]# cat 00-early-checks.rules
/* Allow shutdown when others are logged in */
polkit.addRule(function(action, subject) {
if (action.id == org.freedesktop.consolekit.system.stop-multiple-users ||
action.id ==
org.freedesktop.consolekit.system.restart-multiple-users) {
return polkit.Result.YES;
}
});
it still fails, when user click on their username on the top right corner of the
gnome-session, schroll down to shutdown, then click restart, a window appears
warning that there are other user conencted and that authentification is
required for rebooting the system while other users are logged in, and ends by
asking to enter the Administrator password :-(
Where can I remove that feature ?
1 - Do the students ever have to initiate a long running job and wait for
results? If so, having someone else reboot the machine is not desirable.
2 - It might be better to just log out idle users.
3 - However, if it is your intention to let any user reboot at any time, use
visudo to add a line:
%bootersALL=(ALL) NOPASSWD: /sbin/reboot
so the next student could log in and reboot from command line with
sudo su /sbin/reboot
Note that this requires putting all students allowed to do this (all of them?)
into a secondary group allowed to reboot.
My though is that there is a reason why this isn't the default, if there is no
legitimate use which justifies not rebooting, you certainly can do that. In
particular, you probably don't want people logging in remotely and just
rebooting the machine, students have been known to prank one another.
--
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We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from
the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot
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Re: Copy-pasting without transferring format
Oliver Ruebenacker wrote: Hello, I would like to be able to copy-paste text without transferring the format. I'm using F19 with KDE. Currently, when I copy-paste (between Firefox, LibreOffice, etc), formatting like font, font size and font attributes get also copied and pasted. But I am looking for a way to copy-paste such that the format of the original text is discarded and instead the format of the target document is used, as if I had typed the text on the keyboard. (My wife uses the following trick on Windows: copy-paste text into URL-field of the browser, then copy-paste from URL-field to destination). Thanks! Best, Oliver In many applications shift-ctrl-V calls paste-without-formatting. In some shift-ctrl-C does a cut-without-formatting (grab text only). At other times the past-without-formatting appears on the right click menu. -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: how can i make restart not require root password
Jehan Procaccia wrote:
Le 04/09/2013 17:08, Bill Davidsen a écrit :
Jehan PROCACCIA wrote:
hello,
I've got hundred of fedora19 station installed on computer lab for our
students.
these are self service multi-user stations, users needs to restart the station
whenever they want to
unfortunatly apparently polkit prevents them to restart when another user is
(or had been ?) connected .
I know it is a safe behavior, but we defenitively want to enable users to
restart the station themself whenever they want to, but without requiring the
root password !
indeed, often student leave the room without disconecting (bad !) , then the
screen locks but still allows someone else to connect, but that second student
then cannot restart :-( .
I've tried lot of things:
http://askubuntu.com/questions/1190/how-can-i-make-shutdown-not-require-admin-password
apparently .pkla files a deprecated , and I confirmed that creating a
/etc/polkit-1/localauthority/50-local.d/allow_all_users_to_restart.pkla
containi
ng Action=org.freedesktop.consolekit.system.restart-multiple-users
AllowActive=yes doesn't work
then, from #fedora IRC I've been proposed to create rules in
/etc/polkit-1/rules.d :
http://paste.fedoraproject.org/36844/
[root@b06-02 rules.d]# cat 00-early-checks.rules
/* Allow shutdown when others are logged in */
polkit.addRule(function(action, subject) {
if (action.id ==
org.freedesktop.consolekit.system.stop-multiple-users ||
action.id ==
org.freedesktop.consolekit.system.restart-multiple-users) {
return polkit.Result.YES;
}
});
it still fails, when user click on their username on the top right corner of
the
gnome-session, schroll down to shutdown, then click restart, a window appears
warning that there are other user conencted and that authentification is
required for rebooting the system while other users are logged in, and
ends by
asking to enter the Administrator password :-(
Where can I remove that feature ?
1 - Do the students ever have to initiate a long running job and wait for
results? If so, having someone else reboot the machine is not desirable.
2 - It might be better to just log out idle users.
3 - However, if it is your intention to let any user reboot at any time, use
visudo to add a line:
%bootersALL=(ALL) NOPASSWD: /sbin/reboot
so the next student could log in and reboot from command line with
sudo su /sbin/reboot
Note that this requires putting all students allowed to do this (all of
them?) into a secondary group allowed to reboot.
My though is that there is a reason why this isn't the default, if there is
no legitimate use which justifies not rebooting, you certainly can do that.
In particular, you probably don't want people logging in remotely and just
rebooting the machine, students have been known to prank one another.
unfortunatly , some user never use a terminal and would'nt know how to use a
command line as sudo su /sbin/reboot
the purpose here was to enable restart from the drop down menu withing the
gnome session .
as ahmad samir replied earlier, I have the solution with setting this:
[root@b06-01 ~]# cat /etc/polkit-1/rules.d/00-early-checks.rules
/* Allow shutdown when others are logged in */
polkit.addRule(function(action, subject) {
if (action.id == org.freedesktop.login1.reboot-multiple-sessions ||
action.id == org.freedesktop.login1.power-off-multiple-sessions) {
return polkit.Result.YES;
}
});
thanks .
Actually command lines are specified in menu items and icons...
--
Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com
'Nothing to hide' does not imply 'nothing to fear'
- me
ATT could not seriously contend that a reasonable entity in its position
could have believed that the alleged domestic dragnet was legal.
-judge Vaughn R. Walker of the U.S. District Court
for the Northern District of California, EFF vs. ATT
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Re: The state of blu-ray burning in linux is terrible
Richard Shaw wrote:
On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 6:42 PM, Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com
mailto:david...@tmr.com wrote:
Richard Shaw wrote:
... skip spending time getting cdrtools 3.01 to build ...
Don't know what issues you have building, it always built flawlessly for me,
and installed in /opt/schily/{bin,lib,man,etc}. Add /opt/schily/bin to the
*FRONT* of PATH, MANPATH, and you are good to go, replaces the stuff Fedora
includes which makes a lot of it start working better.
I never run make install directly. Since I'm a Fedora packager I always build
EVERYTHING in an RPM. So I'm trying to get it to play nice with cdrkit but it
may be more trouble than it's worth.
Sorry, I didn't catch that. As you say, it conflicts, due to the cdrkit using
the same names as the well established and supported software.
I'm still working on getting the kinks out of that... conflicts with several
cdrkit packages (genisoimage, wodim, icedax)
Icedax? Never tried it, too many alternate way to do that.
It provides the cdrkit alternatives to cdda2wav and cdda2ogg and is pulled in by
brasero. I've never used it directly.
I know what it does, but I've had good luck with the tools I've been using, so I
didn't feel the need. If that's a GUI tool I never will, I find scripting a good
way to keep my computer from getting bored. Somewhere around I have scripts to
create INF files for burning tracks rather than a total CD clone, and to grab
info and add it to the MP3 output files so tools which use them can get artist
and title.
Ok! Last resort, do it the PITA way...
$ dd if=/dev/zero of=/bdimage.udf bs=2048 count=12219392
$ mkudffs bdimage.udf
# sudo mount -t udf -o loop bdimage /mnt/disc
currently copying files into the image file... HOPEFULLY brasero will at
least
burn the image...
The loop mount stuff is a good way to go, you can keep an image fresh and
just burn it when you need a current copy.
Yeah, I don't have a problem doing things from the command line but sometimes I
just want drag-n-drop and click a button :)
Thank you for the laugh, sounds like me talking about driving the car with the
automatic transmission.
--
Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com
We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from
the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot
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Re: howto do test update
Neal Becker wrote: I see emacs has been updated to 24.3. I'm pretty sure I don't want it. I have built/installed 24.3 earlier, and found some problems. Specifically, tramp doesn't seem to work (hangs), and I need it. Any thoughts on how I might be able to do a yum update, and then backout if I don't like it? I know yum has history rollback - but that would depend on being able to find the earlier 24.2 rpms. Which are probably gone. Which I find rather annoying. Then why didn't you save them? If you set the keepcache flag in yum.conf it will save RPMs in /var/cache/yum for future use. I put just the update RPMs in a local repository, so I only download any package once. I can put the repository on a DVD and upgrade from it if I want, after installing a new machine with no (or slow) net access. -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: howto do test update
Neal Becker wrote: I see emacs has been updated to 24.3. I'm pretty sure I don't want it. I have built/installed 24.3 earlier, and found some problems. Specifically, tramp doesn't seem to work (hangs), and I need it. Any thoughts on how I might be able to do a yum update, and then backout if I don't like it? I know yum has history rollback - but that would depend on being able to find the earlier 24.2 rpms. Which are probably gone. Which I find rather annoying. Sorry, forgot to suggest trying stuff like that in a VM using a snapshot file. That way, if you don't like what you get you can just delete it. -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Don't mount luks partition at boot but with gdm login.
Cor Legemaat wrote: Hi all: I try to get a Fedora 18 laptop with an encrypted home partition to not mount at start up but when the user log into gdm with pam_mount. The encrypted partition is created during install by anaconda, just created an partition and set the mount point to the user's home directory with the option to encrypt the partition. What I tried in order to eliminate the requirement for the password at boot without success: 1) Via the gui disks utility in gnome and set it to not mount at start up. 2) Commented the relevant entry in /etc/fstab 3) Commented the entry in /etc/cryptab I see the pam mount options are also not added automatically to the files in /etc/pam.d/ but that's not a problem for me, that was also the case on my Gentoo system, will use that as guide. For now I only need to eliminate the password request at boot, any ideas? Depending on the level of security you need, you might consider envfs. I thought I did this using noauto in fstab and allowing user mount, but at best that was a few releases ago. -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Do I need avahi?
Joe Zeff wrote: On 07/28/2013 02:41 PM, lee wrote: Yes, so why don't they use 'disable' to disable something rather than masking it so it isn't started during booting? I think that the idea is that a service that's enabled is always started at boot, one that's disabled doesn't get started until it's needed (and only then) and one that's masked doesn't get started at all. (In fact, you can't start it while it's masked, even manually.) Exactly so, and thanks for saving me from having to clarify. stop - the running service disable - disable the auto-start of the service mask - make the service unavailable by any means. Do the native English speakers here agree that 'disable' means to turn something off so it's not available for use? If so, I'll make a bug report about this. Don't bother, the confusion is that the auto-start is being disabled, not the service itself. There is only so much you can put in one word which removes the need to learn what the options for a command are and mean. If we were starting over I would have used auto/noauto instead of enable/disable, but that's not enough better to justify breaking scripts at this point. Those forms could be added as synonyms if people like them, however, breaking nothing. If nothing else, the meanings of the term are sufficiently ambiguous that even native English speakers don't find them intuitively obvious. If you do file a bug report, I'd suggest that it be listed as being UI related, and that you post a link here so that those of us who feel the same can add some me too comments and maybe give the maintainer more of a sense of how much of a problem it really is. Also, you should be aware that the entry for mask in the man page for systemctl explains just how thorough it is, because whoever maintains it might feel that the existing warning is all that's needed. Lewis Carroll said it best, When I use a word, it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less. -Humpty Dumpty -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Do I need avahi?
David Beveridge wrote: On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 11:19 AM, Robert Arkiletian rob...@gmail.com wrote: It's not that bad. This page explains it clearly. http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/three-levels-of-off That does describe what it does quite clearly, however, if you did not read that and tried to assume which did what, it would be easy to get them wrong. According to English language, it would have been better to put them around the other way. However what's done is done and I think it would be very bad to simply reverse them. I think it would be more clear, if mask was changed to prohibit. And perhaps as I suggested earlier, disable could be augmented by noauto as well. This is a old guy vs. new guy thing, perhaps, people who started with command line are used to reading documentation and having some idea what things do before using them. In this case it is auto start being disabled, not the service. People who only use GUI expect the interface will prevent them from shooting themselves in the foot. I do like adding noauto and autorun, and prohibit and allow as synonyms and preferred usage. -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: The state of blu-ray burning in linux is terrible
Richard Shaw wrote: On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 8:35 AM, Tom Horsley horsley1...@gmail.com mailto:horsley1...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, 29 Jul 2013 07:50:38 -0500 Richard Shaw wrote: Still ran out of writable space on the disc at about 97.7% complete so I guess it needs to be a little smaller. If anyone is wondering I'm getting the count from: Blu-rays are exceedingly funky. There is total space, then there is formatted space, where there is space reserved for the hardware to try writing a new copy of a sector that failed. A lot of writer software turns on the formatted mode by default. I went through a lot of this getting my isopack software to write to blu-ray, and wrote up some of it here: http://home.comcast.net/~tomhorsley/software/isopack/isopack.html Of course I also had a batch of media that would always fail around 97, 98%. The new media I got is working fine. Well I installed the real cdrtools cdrecord and used dconf to change the plugin priority of cdrecord in brasero but it was still a no go. Ended up using cdrecord directly and it successfully burned my UDF image that growisofs failed on. YAY! I've also got an idea that MIGHT get cdrtools into Fedora but I'm not going to hold my breath. As a last ditch effort if that doesn't work I'm going to go ahead and see if I can get it into RPM nonfree. I've been doing a TON of reading on the subject I understand the license (and personality) issues but at the end of the day cdrkit is crap and cdrtools works. Actually my big complaint is that Fedora took the name(s) of programs which have been continuously maintained for about 20 years (I first used it when a CD burner was a SCSI device and the fast one did 2X). But his software works! I really wish he had trademarked the names of the programs, I think offering a knock-off under the same name is like one of the $50 Rolex watches. Fedora prides themselves on having only open source software, but the ethics of including an ersatz hack under the original, still maintained, name is ethically murky. They could have modified every package to call wooden instead. So please, if you can get it into RPMfusion or similar, that would be great.It would give us a more functional alternative. Note that I'm surprised that growisofs didn't work to burn the data once you put it in an image file, though. You might join the burning mailing list and discuss with the authors and maintainers. On occasion my problems have been user error, the documentation and examples of some features are NOT up the quality of the code. -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Fedora crash
Martin Skjöldebrand wrote: On Monday 29 July 2013 15.47.49 Bill Davidsen wrote: Martin Skjöldebrand wrote: Would you expect a crash in this situation? I brought my laptop to work for some reason and left it running on battery. I also had Banshee running, albeith on low volume. I had to leave my place for a bit and when I got back the laptop had gone into hiberantion. Then when getting home, I booted it and found Banshee playing, and the screen all scrambled impossibly to see anything (large sheets of colourful squares). The only way to get out of this mess was to open a console and enter reboot as root. Is it some bad handling in Banshee/KDE/Fedora or something? I cautiously offer that it might have been the screen saver kicking in, but in general video doesn't get properly initialized after hibernate. On many machines it doesn't need to have the video hardware reset, so it doesn't matter, and I'm told that using a vendor driver may solve the problem. That's information, not suggestion, treat with care. One thing which may work, and has worked for me, is to switch to a text mode console, and instead of logging in or anything, switch back to the graphic screen. I think this resets the video back to a sane graphic mode, but that's a guess. Another thing which has worked for me on some laptops is to switch to a text mode before doing the hibernate. That implies you know you're going to do it. Sometimes killing and restarting X will fix the issue. May some of this be useful, these are tricks which have worked for me or friends, hardware and drivers differ enough for me to help any more. Ah ... This all sounds familiar. Some of it I've resorted to before. I'm so rusty using desktop Linux =) I used desktop Linux from the early days of the MCC four floppy distribution but didn't get rid of my last Windows machine until about 1998. I keep a VM just to test web pages against IE, but other than that 15 years without MSFT. -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: The state of blu-ray burning in linux is terrible
Richard Shaw wrote:
DISCLAIMER: Yes I'm whining, but hopefully someone who wants to user their BD
writer will find this useful...
Well I thought I would try to make my first blu-ray movie from some home movies
instead of down converting them to DVD like I have been... Only to find out not
only is it currently laborious process, it's actually technically impossible for
FOSS.
The laborious part is trying to get it into the right format (x264 with very
specific settings and separate audio file), but even if you manage that part,
there's no UDF 2.5 write support in linux. If you're lucky, you BD player may
not care.
No problem, I'll worry about that later, I'll just burn a backup of my pictures
that were getting to hard to backup on DVD's
Put in disc... Check!
Detected in Brasero... Check!
copy into new data project... Check!
BURN!
ejects immediately with no helpful error message...
... skip some time spent googling only to get really mad about the whole cdrkit
vs. cdrtools debacle...
... skip spending time getting cdrtools 3.01 to build ...
Don't know what issues you have building, it always built flawlessly for me, and
installed in /opt/schily/{bin,lib,man,etc}. Add /opt/schily/bin to the *FRONT*
of PATH, MANPATH, and you are good to go, replaces the stuff Fedora includes
which makes a lot of it start working better.
I'm still working on getting the kinks out of that... conflicts with several
cdrkit packages (genisoimage, wodim, icedax)
Icedax? Never tried it, too many alternate way to do that.
Ok! Last resort, do it the PITA way...
$ dd if=/dev/zero of=/bdimage.udf bs=2048 count=12219392
$ mkudffs bdimage.udf
# sudo mount -t udf -o loop bdimage /mnt/disc
currently copying files into the image file... HOPEFULLY brasero will at least
burn the image...
The loop mount stuff is a good way to go, you can keep an image fresh and just
burn it when you need a current copy.
--
Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com
We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from
the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot
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Re: Fedora crash
Martin Skjöldebrand wrote: Would you expect a crash in this situation? I brought my laptop to work for some reason and left it running on battery. I also had Banshee running, albeith on low volume. I had to leave my place for a bit and when I got back the laptop had gone into hiberantion. Then when getting home, I booted it and found Banshee playing, and the screen all scrambled impossibly to see anything (large sheets of colourful squares). The only way to get out of this mess was to open a console and enter reboot as root. Is it some bad handling in Banshee/KDE/Fedora or something? I cautiously offer that it might have been the screen saver kicking in, but in general video doesn't get properly initialized after hibernate. On many machines it doesn't need to have the video hardware reset, so it doesn't matter, and I'm told that using a vendor driver may solve the problem. That's information, not suggestion, treat with care. One thing which may work, and has worked for me, is to switch to a text mode console, and instead of logging in or anything, switch back to the graphic screen. I think this resets the video back to a sane graphic mode, but that's a guess. Another thing which has worked for me on some laptops is to switch to a text mode before doing the hibernate. That implies you know you're going to do it. Sometimes killing and restarting X will fix the issue. May some of this be useful, these are tricks which have worked for me or friends, hardware and drivers differ enough for me to help any more. -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Howto make Firewalld allow remote SSH into a Virtual Machine?
Reindl Harald wrote: Am 24.07.2013 14:55, schrieb Patrick Lists: Hi, I just did a fresh F19 x86_64 install on my workstation, copied a Virtual Machine to it and started the VM (has IP addr 192.168.122.20). Now I would like to be able to ssh into the VM from another box on my local LAN like my laptop. Thus far I can't make it work. Steps: Opened firewall-config Set the firewall zone of my Ethernet interface to Trusted: Options - Change Zone of Connections - interface - Edit - General - Firewall zone - Trusted Click on the reload icon Set the default zone to Trusted: Options - Change Default Zone - Trusted Click on the reload icon Results: Can not ping VM from laptop: [patrick@laptop ~]$ ping 192.168.122.20 PING 192.168.122.20 (192.168.122.20) 56(84) bytes of data. From 10.0.0.135 icmp_seq=1 Destination Port Unreachable Can not ssh from the laptop to the VM: [patrick@laptop ~]$ ssh 192.168.122.20 ssh: connect to host 192.168.122.20 port 22: Connection refused On the workstation IPv4 forwarding is on: $ cat /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward 1 So how do I make firewalld allow pings and ssh from remote hosts? no idea about firewalld, with iptables.service it is easy however you need iptables-forwarding and masquerade for NAT * vmnet8- virtual interface the VM's are running on * eth0 - LAN interface of the host * 10.0.0.0/24 - LAN network (host and other machines) * 192.168.197.0 - Network with the VMs iptables -A FORWARD -i eth0 -o vmnet8 -s 10.0.0.0/24 -d 192.168.197.0 -j ACCEPT iptables -A FORWARD -i vmnet8 -o eth0 -s 192.168.197.0 -d 10.0.0.0/24 -j ACCEPT iptables -A POSTROUTING -o vmnet8 -t nat -s 10.0.0.0/24 -j MASQUERADE Several thoughts on this, first this should come after the rule Fedora provides, to ACCEPT packets ESTABLISHED or RELATED. That means that once the connection is set up, the first rule will accept the packets, and reduce CPU usage as well as latency. The other is less obvious, these rules should be qualified with tests for NEW connections, so some tricks involving sending in a packet as if it were part of an existing connection won't work. So if you add: -m state --state NEW to those rules before -j, you will cheaply protect machines beyond the firewall. Yes, there are some obscure protocols which fail to be set ESTABLISHED, hopefully these are uncommon enough that if you use them you can put other qualifiers on the connect. I have run several years without having a legitimate packet dropped, but logging shows people sending crafted packets which do (and should) get dropped. Just the musings of an old paranoid, I like firewalls based on everything not explicitly allowed is forbidden. Oh, I drop all protocols except the ones I use like udp, tcp, and icmp. Amazing what my logs show. -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Howto make Firewalld allow remote SSH into a Virtual Machine?
Darryl L. Pierce wrote: On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 05:25:29AM +0800, Ed Greshko wrote: On 07/24/13 22:38, Patrick Lists wrote: With the Firewalld service stopped I can ping and ssh fine into the VM from my laptop. FWIW, it has been a long time but I always had FW trouble when dealing with a NAT configuration. I don't know virt-manager, but if possible I'd switch to a bridged network configuration so the VM has a 10.X.X.X IP. I'd only do that if you absolutely need to access the VM from the outside, or at least outside of the host machine. Your caution is correct, but in many cases sites run web servers, mail, DNS, DHCP,and other services on a VM. A bridge is not the only way to do that, but it is one approach. -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Howto make Firewalld allow remote SSH into a Virtual Machine?
Anthony Messina wrote: On Wednesday, July 24, 2013 02:55:56 PM Patrick Lists wrote: [patrick@laptop ~]$ ping 192.168.122.20 PING 192.168.122.20 (192.168.122.20) 56(84) bytes of data. From 10.0.0.135 icmp_seq=1 Destination Port Unreachable Can not ssh from the laptop to the VM: [patrick@laptop ~]$ ssh 192.168.122.20 ssh: connect to host 192.168.122.20 port 22: Connection refused To access the VM through the host system without using bridged networking, it seems like you'd need to forward port 22 from the host's IP address to the VM's IP address via. You may or may not want to do this for port 22, as you'd then bypass the ability to access port 22 on the host machine (since it would be forwarded to the VM). The bridged network works wonders to solve this issue: http://wiki.libvirt.org/page/Networking#Host_configuration_2 If you have another IP available, you can bind that to the same NIC and use iptables to forward the connection. iptables -p tcp -d 288.41.42.43 --dport ssh -j DNAT 10.40.51.22 or use a non-standard port and send it to the ssh port on the VM. That allows running a stock sshd on the VM. I have a script in my firewall rules, which defines a bash function to do all the stuff, then a one liner with parameters to do the setup. You can even do some (very) crude load leveling by putting multiple machines on the DNAT rule. -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Video Transcoder Screen Recorder
Junayeed Ahnaf wrote: Hello, I couldn't install handbrake on fedora (a search showed me that Handbrake doesn't compile on F19 due to some issue in llvm). So, I was wondering what better alternate is there for video transcoding? And I couldn't install Kazam either. So what's the best alternate for kazam, which is a screen recorder, by the way. After reading the thread(s). I pretty much use ffmpeg for everything, although some of my tools use transcode, so I have that loaded. It will do screen capture, although I figured out how once, put it in a script, and haven't looked at it again. Glad you get stuff working. -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Install fc18 from DVD demands network connection
Junk wrote: On 24 Jul 2013, at 21:31, Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com wrote: Junk wrote: On Tue, 2013-07-23 at 11:08 -0400, Bill Davidsen wrote: Darryl L. Pierce wrote: On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 02:01:43PM -0400, Bill Davidsen wrote: This is back, sigh again. Having found out that fedup fails totally to work on drives with encrypted partitions, I don't think this is still the case: I did F18-F19 on my laptop (encrypted /home and swap) using fedup and it worked just fine. Not sure what you mean by still the case, it was as of 1PM yesterday when I posted, and since it's burned on DVD I doubt it's changes. Some systems refuse to install without network. That was the response I got when I reported the bug before, Can't reproduce and WFM don't cover the ground with anything but a hard fail on all systems. And you must be doing something wrong really doesn't fit a process which consists of load DVD followed by power on. I've been installing Linux since it hit usenet in 91 or so, and it works on other systems. It's clearly a Fedora bug, does not happen on the same machine with Mint, Ubuntu, or Puppy, and the other machine which has this issue installed Slackware fine. Note: after installing Slackware the problem went away, installing Ubentu didn't fix the machine of interest. -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot Firstly. Calm down. I believe your preconceptions are mostly at issue here. If you mean the preconception that install from DVD should not need a network connection, that's exactly the issue. After install the upgrade comes from another DVD holding a local repo of common things which have been updated. The posts you responded to are talking about the fedup over a network onto an encrypted partition. Not the DVD install. It works but your too het up on your issue to realise what they are talking about notice. Go back, read my post. I put a DVD into the machine with no network connection to do an install from scratch because fedup didn't work. Clear? My original post was clear that I was doing an install from DVD, and if they thought it was something else, I reread my original post and it still seems clear. Re-read the first line of your initial email. The one with the word 'fedup' in it. Are you, or are you not, talking about fedup? The one that says because fedup didn't work I was doing a clean install? That seems totally clear to be talking about the clean install. Booted from DVD, did scratch install, system demanded network. Can't say it any clearer than that, can't do it simpler than that. Just as have have done on all the ones which worked. Can't be explained away, if it's user error it wouldn't work on some systems but not all. I've been doing this a decade or two, after the first two fails the rest of the tests were carefully noted step by step, trying things like different filesystem types, reformatting the partitions or not, etc. In no case did I return to trying to use fedup, because after an early attempt the install could not recognize the boot or root partitions in any way. Secondly, people are responding to your bugs with Can't Reproduce because they can't. I can't. I've just now set up a machine with no network card at all and successfully installed Fedora 19 from a DVD. What makes this all the more fun is that the answer you want is in the screenshot you posted. Experience tells me that doesn't happen every time is not the same as doesn't happen. No matter what's on that screen, that screen shouldn't come up on install from DVD. Ok. The clear short version. The screenshot you posted. Click continue. The machine installs. Glad it does that for you. Doesn't here, but you have concluded that if it works for you there's no problem. That screen is not saying network is a requirement for install. But that it is required to get updates once the machine is installed. It gives you an opportunity to get things sorted. You can ignore it. And as Reindl has been getting all the action recently I'll finish with this. You, Sir, are what Aristotle would call a 'tard Now you can get angry again, Don't know what prompted the personal attack, perhaps frustration at not being able to explain the problem, and not convincing me that it isn't a problem? -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- And thus the case of The Crown versus Davidson was proven. Junk. -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki
Re: Install fc18 from DVD demands network connection
Darryl L. Pierce wrote: On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 11:08:19AM -0400, Bill Davidsen wrote: Darryl L. Pierce wrote: On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 02:01:43PM -0400, Bill Davidsen wrote: This is back, sigh again. Having found out that fedup fails totally to work on drives with encrypted partitions, I don't think this is still the case: I did F18-F19 on my laptop (encrypted /home and swap) using fedup and it worked just fine. Not sure what you mean by still the case, I mean still an issue with fedup being unable to upgrade a system with encrypted filesystems. That's why I ended the piece being quoted with fedup fails totally to workon drives with encrypted partitions,. it was as of 1PM yesterday when I posted, and since it's burned on DVD I doubt it's changes. Some systems refuse to install without network. I'm not sure we're talking the same thing then. I may have misread, we have a lot of depth to quotes here. There seem to be two issues, fedup on LUKS, and clean install looping asking for network. I may only see the network issue after fedup has been run, and I did find that if I write 100MB of /dev/zero to the partitions I'm going to use (from rescue CD) no issues on clean install. There MAY be an issue with reading the partitions and saving data, don't care as long as it can be done. I'm trying a yum upgrade in LUKS next week, I am taking a few days off from anything challenging to deal with real life. May wait and test more when the 18-19 cycle comes. -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Install fc18 from DVD demands network connection
Junk wrote: On Tue, 2013-07-23 at 11:08 -0400, Bill Davidsen wrote: Darryl L. Pierce wrote: On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 02:01:43PM -0400, Bill Davidsen wrote: This is back, sigh again. Having found out that fedup fails totally to work on drives with encrypted partitions, I don't think this is still the case: I did F18-F19 on my laptop (encrypted /home and swap) using fedup and it worked just fine. Not sure what you mean by still the case, it was as of 1PM yesterday when I posted, and since it's burned on DVD I doubt it's changes. Some systems refuse to install without network. That was the response I got when I reported the bug before, Can't reproduce and WFM don't cover the ground with anything but a hard fail on all systems. And you must be doing something wrong really doesn't fit a process which consists of load DVD followed by power on. I've been installing Linux since it hit usenet in 91 or so, and it works on other systems. It's clearly a Fedora bug, does not happen on the same machine with Mint, Ubuntu, or Puppy, and the other machine which has this issue installed Slackware fine. Note: after installing Slackware the problem went away, installing Ubentu didn't fix the machine of interest. -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot Firstly. Calm down. I believe your preconceptions are mostly at issue here. If you mean the preconception that install from DVD should not need a network connection, that's exactly the issue. After install the upgrade comes from another DVD holding a local repo of common things which have been updated. The posts you responded to are talking about the fedup over a network onto an encrypted partition. Not the DVD install. It works but your too het up on your issue to realise what they are talking about notice. Go back, read my post. I put a DVD into the machine with no network connection to do an install from scratch because fedup didn't work. Clear? My original post was clear that I was doing an install from DVD, and if they thought it was something else, I reread my original post and it still seems clear. Booted from DVD, did scratch install, system demanded network. Can't say it any clearer than that, can't do it simpler than that. Just as have have done on all the ones which worked. Can't be explained away, if it's user error it wouldn't work on some systems but not all. I've been doing this a decade or two, after the first two fails the rest of the tests were carefully noted step by step, trying things like different filesystem types, reformatting the partitions or not, etc. In no case did I return to trying to use fedup, because after an early attempt the install could not recognize the boot or root partitions in any way. Secondly, people are responding to your bugs with Can't Reproduce because they can't. I can't. I've just now set up a machine with no network card at all and successfully installed Fedora 19 from a DVD. What makes this all the more fun is that the answer you want is in the screenshot you posted. Experience tells me that doesn't happen every time is not the same as doesn't happen. No matter what's on that screen, that screen shouldn't come up on install from DVD. And as Reindl has been getting all the action recently I'll finish with this. You, Sir, are what Aristotle would call a 'tard Now you can get angry again, Don't know what prompted the personal attack, perhaps frustration at not being able to explain the problem, and not convincing me that it isn't a problem? -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Howto make Firewalld allow remote SSH into a Virtual Machine?
Darryl L. Pierce wrote: On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 02:55:56PM +0200, Patrick Lists wrote: Hi, I just did a fresh F19 x86_64 install on my workstation, copied a Virtual Machine to it and started the VM (has IP addr 192.168.122.20). Now I would like to be able to ssh into the VM from another box on my local LAN like my laptop. Thus far I can't make it work. Steps: Opened firewall-config Set the firewall zone of my Ethernet interface to Trusted: Options - Change Zone of Connections - interface - Edit - General - Firewall zone - Trusted Click on the reload icon Set the default zone to Trusted: Options - Change Default Zone - Trusted Click on the reload icon Results: Can not ping VM from laptop: [patrick@laptop ~]$ ping 192.168.122.20 PING 192.168.122.20 (192.168.122.20) 56(84) bytes of data. From 10.0.0.135 icmp_seq=1 Destination Port Unreachable Can not ssh from the laptop to the VM: [patrick@laptop ~]$ ssh 192.168.122.20 ssh: connect to host 192.168.122.20 port 22: Connection refused On the workstation IPv4 forwarding is on: $ cat /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward 1 So how do I make firewalld allow pings and ssh from remote hosts? So I'll be honest: I originally uninstalled firewalld because (at the time) I didn't want to mess with learning to set it up. :D I installed it today and played around with it and have a question for you: were you editing the Runtime or the Permanent configuration? If you were editing runtime and then hit reload then you overwrote your changes with the permanent config which you didn't modify. Yes, I found that when I was first using firewalld, I kept looking for a button or menu item like install my changes. And it might be a good thing not to make changes active until all changes have been entered. It's a user interface issue, for the moment I don't use it for tricky stuff, but it works well for typical cases. I'm not sure it's really easier to use than iptables rules, but choices are good. -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: WARNING: Your hard drive is failing
Joe Zeff wrote: On 07/24/2013 11:57 AM, Andre Robatino wrote: I saw this once, with a portable hard drive. It happened when I had the drive plugged in while booting, and unplugged it later. It didn't realize that it was okay for the drive to be unplugged afterwards. I didn't check if there is an existing bug report. Did you always unmount the drive before unplugging it? If not, that might explain the warnings. Depending on the filesystem type, NOT unmounting it might leave it in some dirty state which could be anything from annoying but trivial to actual data loss. I unmount mine as well, but not using GNOME I can't say what eject does, I thought that was for media like CD. -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Install fc18 from DVD demands network connection
Darryl L. Pierce wrote: On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 02:01:43PM -0400, Bill Davidsen wrote: This is back, sigh again. Having found out that fedup fails totally to work on drives with encrypted partitions, I don't think this is still the case: I did F18-F19 on my laptop (encrypted /home and swap) using fedup and it worked just fine. Not sure what you mean by still the case, it was as of 1PM yesterday when I posted, and since it's burned on DVD I doubt it's changes. Some systems refuse to install without network. That was the response I got when I reported the bug before, Can't reproduce and WFM don't cover the ground with anything but a hard fail on all systems. And you must be doing something wrong really doesn't fit a process which consists of load DVD followed by power on. I've been installing Linux since it hit usenet in 91 or so, and it works on other systems. It's clearly a Fedora bug, does not happen on the same machine with Mint, Ubuntu, or Puppy, and the other machine which has this issue installed Slackware fine. Note: after installing Slackware the problem went away, installing Ubentu didn't fix the machine of interest. -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: OpenVPN disapeared
Diego Vargas wrote: Hi Bill, I've just fixed. I've installed this package: NetworkManager-openvpn-gnome.x86_64 Now it works. Thanks for your help anyway. Diego That sounds like a problem with something you installed putting in a different (probably newer) version of something. If you have a hardware issue I assume you would notice. -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Install fc18 from DVD demands network connection
This is back, sigh again. Having found out that fedup fails totally to work on drives with encrypted partitions, I tried to install from DVD. The DVD is good, the system is good, I booted in recovery but the partitions were not recognized as anything at all, so I rebooted to do full install from DVD. That's not happening, the DVD demands to do a network install. Why does this happen and how can I get by it? There is nothing to configure and [QUIT] works as expected. NOTE: no, it's not practical to transport the system to a useful net, or do a network install over dialup. Install from DVD normally just works, what's triggering this issue? I realize that fedup isn't going to get fixed, I filed this as a bug against earlier releases, without getting a fix or workaround. Screenshot of the drop dead screen at http://public.tmr.com/~davidsen/NeedNetwork-1.jpg -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com 'Nothing to hide' does not imply 'nothing to fear' - me ATT could not seriously contend that a reasonable entity in its position could have believed that the alleged domestic dragnet was legal. -judge Vaughn R. Walker of the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of California, EFF vs. ATT -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: unimpressive btrfs benchmark results
Rex Dieter wrote: Neal Becker wrote: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=articleitem=linux_311_filesystemsnum=1 I installed using btrfs on my SSD. Maybe I should be feeling some buyer's remorse? While being fast is nice, after reading, http://btrfs.wiki.kernel.org/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Btrfs It seems clear to me btrfs primary focus is not pure performance, but advanced features. Some choice quotes: ... focusing on fault tolerance, repair and easy administration. ... intended to address the lack of pooling, snapshots, checksums and integral multi-device spanning it offers improvements in scalability, reliability, and ease of management In short, if you expected btrfs to be significantly faster (than ext4, for example) for general use, you probably ought to adjust your expectations. If you expect more recent kernels to be faster than previous releases, adjust your expectations again. I have noticed this, and it would be nice if Linux would bang on people to make things at least as fast in new releases. I question if journaling is the right thing to do with SSD, putting a beating on the device with repeated writes. Is order optimal, given that either directory and metadata get written ahead of data, or vice versa and have other issues? Have to read up on F2FS and see if that's really a good way to go overall, In any case and thought provoking data set, suggests areas to test, although the number of possible combinations is already large for a small shop. -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Fedup from 18 to 19, fingers crossed
lee wrote: Rahul Sundaram methe...@gmail.com writes: Hi My guess at this point is that fedup assumed that because my local repository was local (over nfs) that it didn't need to add these packages to /var/lib/fedora-upgrade. If this is indeed the case that is a VERY bad assumption. It's nuts to not include ALL the packages needed for the upgrade transaction. And even if there's a good reason not to (I can't think of one) then if you're missing 1100 packages, it should refuse to do the upgrade. Richard Have you filed a bug report? Making a bug report would be a good idea, with /var/log/fedup.log attached. If any of my filesystems were left functional I would have, but that seems not to be the case. -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Etiquette and changing of threads
Reindl Harald wrote: Am 15.07.2013 20:10, schrieb Robert Holtzman: On Sun, Jul 14, 2013 at 10:55:15PM -0300, Fernando Lozano wrote: Hi Reindl, first: my intention is *not* to start another epic thread since i am always the unholy prick here after i lose patience maybe others should also reconsider *not* hijacking threads by Thanks for clarification. Changing the subject (and keeping the original one with a [Re:]) is standard procedures in many mailing lists, I didn't know it was not accepted here. My apologies. Re: means the message is a reply to a previous post. If the subject line on the same thread is changed then [was..] is appended. What lists are you referring to? the real problem is thread-view you have to open a growing tree-structure and look if there is something related to the topic you are interested in if it is a new thread you can have it in the archive but closed and only open the ones you are currently interested in and the next problem that over time it becomes unclear to what people responded - the original thread or subthreads, that feels like if you have a tech meeting with 10 people and then one marketing guy steps in the room and fire his statements Well my reader has delete subthread so I can at least take a whack at it. -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Etiquette and changing of threads
lee wrote: Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net writes: the real problem is thread-view Perhaps you'd be happier with a different MUA. You seem to be using something similar to the MUA built into seamonkey. I have always found it totally unsuited for managing more than a very few mails. Yes, Seamonkey has watched threads, ignore either thread or subthreads,and has message filters of many capabilities. Mind you, the filters do benefit from a bit of talent in programming or they will eat your cpu on a busy machine, but it's a great MUA. I'm writing on it now. -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Etiquette and changing of threads
Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: On Mon, 2013-07-15 at 21:40 +0200, Ralf Corsepius wrote: Just think about what you'd tell me, if I tell you: You must do it this way ... You'd likely take it as a rudity. However, this is the 1:1 translation of what Germans would use to express what US Americans are likely to express as You may want to consider doing it this way ... A phrase I would take as pretended politeness, when being used in German, My ignorance of German is almost perfect, but I'm fluent in Spanish. There one has the alternative of saying hay que hacerlo así (roughly one should do it this way) which is more neutral than a direct reference to the other speaker and wouldn't normally be offensive. This also works similarly in English. You may consider, ... is to my mind a specifically American idiom which I've mostly seen in mailing lists, though I have caught myself using it. I have no problem with I would try or have you considered. I have had several people tell me I was doing things the wrong way because I didn't give a long explanation of why what I was doing is the only acceptable solution. I realize I don't always have all the context, so being a bit polite rather than assuming that (a) I have the only solution, and (b) I have the right to ignore their question and provide an alternate solution instead of providing the solution they requested. -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Etiquette and changing of threads
lee wrote: Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com writes: lee wrote: Queue your posts before sending them. I tried that, and wound up not remembering to post afterword. It sounds better than it works, at least for me. It can happen --- since I got used to it, I don't forget it anymore. Even if I do, nothing terrible happens. Some threads happen to diverge into, sometimes multiple, different directions, with many posters becoming inspired to come forward with what they are interested in. When this happens, it doesn't mean that the thread has been hijacked. That's your opinion, I can agree if the diversion is a subtopic of the original post, otherwise I disagree. Let's take the 'Schrödingers' Cat' thread as an example. Does it constitute hijacking the thread when someone asks why it's Schrödingers' rather than Schrödingers? Implementation details of a relevant answer are fine, too often a How do I question results in a you want to do something less answer, which is (a) often not helpful, and (b) comes with the assumption that the original poster asked the wrong question, or is using a wrong approach, usually without understanding the reason why an approach has been chosen. That isn't hijacking, or is it? I have had some success with starting a post with a statement that I'm not seeking alternate solution, just information on how to make the chosen approach work. I don't do it unless I'm really closed to alternatives, I have had a fair number of good alternatives brought to my attention. And you don't like it when alternatives are brought to your attention because of (a) and (b)? More to save someone the effort of writing a long response intended to help, but not actually useful. If there's a reason to use the solution I chose, everyone benefits from useful answers, or requests for context, why I chose to do it the way I did. I'm often happy to have any solution, but there are times when it must go the hard way. -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: USB Lan Adapter
Ranjan Maitra wrote: Hello, My Dell XPS 13 is one of those without an ethernet outlet (for want of a better term). So I purchased a Keydex UG-ND1118-SV USB Lan Adapter and hooked it on, but it does not appear to be recognized (F19). Looking at the packaging, it looks like there is a driver download site at download.keydex.com.tw/drivers. I can try that, but I was wondering if there are open-source alternatives available (perhaps from RPMfusion, etc). Not sure what additional information to provide here, but if some more is needed, let me know. The product in question is available on Amazon and is this: http://www.amazon.com/KEYDEX-Ethernet-Network-Adapter-Memory/dp/B007VG5OYS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8qid=1373935036sr=8-1keywords=keydex+USB+lan+adapter Many thanks and best wishes, Ranjan I know nothing about your device, but I got a number of USB/100Mbit adaptors from Newegg which have drivers in RPMfusion. They were about $5-7 each, and they work so well I use two on my firewall one per ISP) and save my Gbit NIC for internal. If you are determined to make what you have work, I can't help you but I have gone down that road. If you want the part number I'm using let me know by email so I see it, and I'll have some breaks from 2-4PM GMT-4 tomorrow. I'm installing content on a new web server and will have lots of 2-3 minute breaks to fill.\ -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: i can't install Fedora 14
Skander Bahloul wrote: Hi, I have a multiboot system which contain Fedora 18. I try to install Fedora 14, but when i boot and i choose the seconde option of the boot menu, the screen become dark and i haven't the installation process. I try the same install DVD in another PC and it seems ok. Could help me. Not having any idea what that option is, not directly. However, I have a thought, if there is an option for install using basic graphics mode or something like that, I would try that, since your problem could be caused by video driver suckage. The newer kernels aren't a lot better about deciding when to use 'nomodeset' and when not, although when you force the option the new drivers do work much better in most case. The text mode install is your last resort, if nothing else works try that. I have to fight that on many installs, and (sorry to say) use the vendor drivers from RPMfusion. I'm just happy they exist, no matter how much Linus dislikes the vendors, I do know about NDA on chips. HTH -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
