Re: Shredding a removable drive (OT)

[Ian Malone]

On Tue, 29 Jan 2019 at 03:32, Robert Nichols  wrote:
>
> On 1/28/19 8:03 AM, Ian Malone wrote:
> >I wouldn't recommend just doing /dev/zero if the CIA,
> > or even a moderately funded newspaper might specifically be after your
> > data,
>
> I would be interested to know if you can name any data recovery service that 
> has ever demonstrated the ability to recover data from a reasonably modern 
> hard disk that has been overwritten once with zeros.
>

I can't. This doesn't mean nobody can do it though, and of the
possible cases it's the most simple to retrieve the data from, which
there is a theoretical possibility of. It's also not a case with that
many legitimate uses. Given the additional cost of using at least a
single randomised over-write is effectively zero there's basically no
reason not to take that option instead. SSD may also simply ignore a
zero write and mark blocks as unused instead, though as jdow mentioned
the wear-levelling areas can escape an over-write anyway, which is why
the ATA secure erase command exists.



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Re: Shredding a removable drive (OT)

[Ian Malone]

On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 at 15:43, Patrick O'Callaghan  wrote:
>
> On Mon, 2019-01-28 at 14:03 +0000, Ian Malone wrote:

> >
> > /dev/urandom isn't purely pseudorandom, it does use entropy from the
> > pool, it will become pseudorandom when entropy runs out and become
> > random again when more entropy arrives.
>
> Good to know.
>
> > Unless you have a hardware
> > entropy source I suspect using /dev/random will take a much longer
> > time to produce enough data even for a single over-write.
>
> Of course.
>
> > However it's
> > worth noting that the over-write process is not simply XOR with the
> > written bytes (in which case enough plaintext to work out the sequence
> > would definitely let you recover the rest of the data), it's
> > attempting to randomise the hysteresis effect on the media, which is
> > why multiple writes are good, because though they theoretically just
> > increase the number of possible residual states each time you do it
> > the residual size of the signal you're over-writing is reduced, and
> > attempting to get the sequences applied to a known plaintext will
> > become harder.
>
> I assume you mean 'shred' does this. 'dd if=/dev/urandom ...' won't.
>

Yes, default is 3 writes. But since I'm checking, it's been a while
since I read the shred manpage... It turns out the default source is
actually not discussed, so may be a purely pseudorandom algorithm,
rather than /dev/urandom. It's after midnight here, so I'm not
inclined to dig into the source right now to find out. It is possible
to specify urandom if wished by using the --random-source argument.
One old piece of advice that may be outdated now, multiple writes are
a good idea, because the residual signal on magnetic media is less
than the current value, my understanding is that at one point you
could effectively substract out the ideal current signal to retrieve
the last value, which would work even against a random overwrite. Of
course disc technology has moved on a lot and technologies like
shingling may have turned that into an extra data channel by now. The
truely paranoid might still want to use a physical shredder rather
than a software one.


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Re: Shredding a removable drive (OT)

[Ian Malone]

On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 at 10:13, Patrick O'Callaghan  wrote:
>
> On Sun, 2019-01-27 at 20:46 -0800, jdow wrote:
> > On 20190127 14:44:52, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> > > On Sun, 2019-01-27 at 19:56 +0100, Wolfgang Pfeiffer wrote:
> > > > > Given that encrypting the disk means (at a minimum) reading the entire
> > > > > contents and rewriting it,
> > > >
> > > > No. I don't think data is written and rewritten. See below.
> > >
> > > If it's not being read and rewritten, it's not being encrypted. It's as
> > > simple as that. A cryptosystem that doesn't read the plaintext? How
> > > does that work?
> > >
> > > poc
> >
> > Give me an image if the disk and after suitable time and effort I have 
> > access to
> > the whole thing if only the directory entries are encrypted. So the tool in
> > question gives a false sense of security at best.
> > {^_^}
>
> If that's indeed what it does, I agree.
>
> Another point: several people have mentioned using /dev/urandom. It's
> important to note that this is a *pseudo-random* generator. It starts
> from a random seed, but from that generates a completely deterministic
> pattern. If you have the seed, you have everything. And since the idea
> here is to overwrite the disk, the first part of which contains
> "plaintext" that follows a regular layout (partition table etc.) it
> makes the task of decoding the disk even easier as that's the only part
> you would actually have to analyse at a physical level.
>

/dev/urandom isn't purely pseudorandom, it does use entropy from the
pool, it will become pseudorandom when entropy runs out and become
random again when more entropy arrives. Unless you have a hardware
entropy source I suspect using /dev/random will take a much longer
time to produce enough data even for a single over-write. However it's
worth noting that the over-write process is not simply XOR with the
written bytes (in which case enough plaintext to work out the sequence
would definitely let you recover the rest of the data), it's
attempting to randomise the hysteresis effect on the media, which is
why multiple writes are good, because though they theoretically just
increase the number of possible residual states each time you do it
the residual size of the signal you're over-writing is reduced, and
attempting to get the sequences applied to a known plaintext will
become harder. I wouldn't recommend just doing /dev/zero if the CIA,
or even a moderately funded newspaper might specifically be after your
data, but it would certainly be enough to stop a casual user plugging
it in and getting anything back, a few urandom writes is enough to
stop anyone without serious cryptographic expertise and access to the
equipment necessary to read the platters directly getting anything off
the disc.

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Re: Breaking LVM (on purpose)

[Ian Malone]

On Thu, 3 Jan 2019 at 18:13, Roger Heflin  wrote:

>
> On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 11:01 AM Chris Adams  wrote:
> >
> > Once upon a time, Ian Malone  said:
> > > Does anyone have suggestions for easily simulating a missing volume in
> > > LVM on bare metal?
> >
> > Actually make a volume go missing?  The easiest way to do that would be
> > USB volumes (thumb drives), and just yank the drive out.  Even if you
> > don't want to physically pull the drive, I think you can tell a USB
> > device to power down via a sysfs attribute, so that might be sufficient.
> >
>

> echo 1 > /sys/block/sdX/device/delete
>
> And the device should disappear.> > --

Thanks both, I'd thought about a USB drive, but didn't have one to
hand at the time that I didn't mind messing up. The sysfs route sounds
a bit safer though, and I can probably find one I don't need any more.

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Breaking LVM (on purpose)

[Ian Malone]

Does anyone have suggestions for easily simulating a missing volume in
LVM on bare metal? I'm trying to test behaviour like a network
attached physical volume going missing (actually, a network mounted
virtual disc image). The normal loopback approach to testing falls a
bit short, while overwriting the file can corrupt the PV, removing it
seems very hard, as even force removing the loop device seems to leave
it connected to the file handle, meaning a reboot is required to
really clear things, and so at the minute I can only test what happens
if a drive is missing after boot, rather than disappears during
operation. (A bit easier to do with discs on a VM, but doing testing
on a laptop.)

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Re: OT: IBM to buy RedHat

[Ian Malone]

On Tue, 30 Oct 2018 at 05:42, ToddAndMargo via users
 wrote:
>
> On 10/29/18 6:30 PM, Fred Smith wrote:
> > On Mon, Oct 29, 2018 at 04:26:46PM -0700, ToddAndMargo via users wrote:
>
> >> The big question is how will IBM look at it.  RHEL is pretty much
> >> unusable for newer software as RHEL is so bug riddled and out of
> >> date.
>
> > Don't know why you think RHEL is  bug riddled. it's stable and
> > will run for years.
>
> Glad you asked.  I make that statement from my experience with RHEL
> and Clones.
>
> What RHEL does is to make some minor tweaks and freeze a defunct
> version of Fedora.  It is by design, meaning purposefully, an
> anti-Kaisen operating system for the reasons you described.
> If you only run what is in the box, it will  run and run
> as your described.
>

This is not what RHEL is, or how it is made. The rest of your post
illustrates that you don't actually know what RHEL is for. If you need
to support validated systems then you do not want an OS that changes
every six months and wont run unless every component in it is
upgraded. They both have a place.

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Re: Live ISO image creation

[Ian Malone]

On 26 June 2018 at 08:31, Jozsef K via users
 wrote:
> Hi,
> I have a question about live ISO image creation. What I would like to
> achieve is to install exfat-utils and fuse-exfat while I am in live
> environment and then to create a new ISO image file which would be the same
> as the one I booted but with addition of those two packages.
> Is that possible?
>
>

Not exactly like this, however you can create a minimal kickstart
file, use that to build an ISO and then create a live image from that
the way you would a normal ISO.

See https://pagure.io/fedora-kickstarts (you'd just need three lines
really, one to include the kickstart for the spin you wanted to
customise and two to add the packages you want), and
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_create_a_Fedora_install_ISO_for_testing
however it will take quite a while to run.

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Re: Terrible F25 WiFi Performance

[Ian Malone]

On 24 March 2017 at 16:46, Rick Stevens <ri...@alldigital.com> wrote:
> On 03/23/2017 05:40 PM, Ian Malone wrote:
>> On 12 January 2017 at 05:04, Chris Murphy <li...@colorremedies.com> wrote:
>>> Damn strange.
>>>
>>> The computer is in a static location for all tests. This is still using
>>> iperf in all cases, but abbreviated since I'm copying by hand. Each test is
>>> about five seconds apart.
>>>
>>> Fedora 25 live
>>> 58 Mbit/sec
>>> 61
>>> 41
>>>
>>> Fedora 24 live
>>> 54 Mbit/sec
>>> 46
>>> 38
>>> 65
>>>
>>> Fedora 25 installed
>>> 29
>>> 42
>>> 38
>>> 38
>>> co
>>> There are a total of three wireless devices connected to this AP. All are
>>> connected  at the same time but only the test client is actively being used
>>> when the testing is happening. But it's in an apartment building, with
>>> hundreds of units all of which have wireless APs.
>>>
>>
>> Did anyone get to the bottom of this? I installed F25 a couple of
>> weeks ago and network performance is noticeably poorer on this
>> machine. When browsing the internet, or particularly on Ajax based
>> sites like gmail or google search connections seem to just drop. The
>> previous Fedora that was on this machine (23 I think) was fine, and my
>> laptop (still on an older Fedora) and other devices have not
>> experienced any change. Looking in journalctl as root I see frequent
>> renegotiation with the AP, e.g.:
>> Mar 24 00:21:29 atlas wpa_supplicant[864]: wlp2s0: SME: Trying to
>> authenticate with xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx (SSID='X' freq=5200 MHz)
>> Mar 24 00:21:29 atlas kernel: wlp2s0: disconnect from AP
>> xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx for new auth to 00:a4:23:17:18:e5
>> Mar 24 00:21:29 atlas kernel: wlp2s0: authenticate with xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx
>> Mar 24 00:21:29 atlas kernel: wlp2s0: send auth to xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx (try 
>> 1/3)
>> Mar 24 00:21:29 atlas kernel: wlp2s0: authenticated
>> Mar 24 00:21:29 atlas kernel: wlp2s0: associate with xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx (try 
>> 1/3)
>> Mar 24 00:21:29 atlas wpa_supplicant[864]: wlp2s0: Trying to associate
>> with xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx (SSID='X' freq=5200 MHz)
>> While the machine is supposedly connected.
>>
>> There's also this,
>> Mar 24 00:21:29 atlas systemd-udevd[5658]: Process '/usr/sbin/crda'
>> failed with exit code 249.
>> which can't be a good sign.
>
> The first things I'd do is see what hardware you actually have:
>
> # lspci | grep -i wireless
>
> Then see which driver your wifi is using via
>
> # ethtool -i wlp2s0
>
> See if perhaps there's another driver or perhaps newer firmware you can
> use for that chipset. Sometimes the kernel or udev don't necessarily
> make the right decisions about which driver to use. My F25 machines with
> wifi are both using the iwlwifi driver (both use Intel wireless chips):
>
> (Desktop)
> # lspci | grep -i wireless
> 04:00.0 Network controller: Intel Corporation Wireless 3165 (rev 81)
>
> #ethtool -i wlp4s0
> driver: iwlwifi
> version: 4.9.13-201.fc25.x86_64
> firmware-version: 22.361476.0
> ...
>
> (Laptop)
> # lspci | grep -i wireless
> 01:00.0 Network controller: Intel Corporation Centrino Wireless-N 1030
> [Rainbow Peak] (rev 34)
>
> # ethtool -i wlan0
> driver: iwlwifi
> version: 4.9.14-200.fc25.x86_64
> firmware-version: 18.168.6.1
> ...
>
> I've had no issues with performance or the ability to stay connected
> and the laptop goes LOTS of places with me.

The hardware hasn't changed, and was picked specifically because it
has good (and long standing) linux support:


02:00.0 Network controller: Qualcomm Atheros AR93xx Wireless Network
Adapter (rev 01)

driver: ath9k
version: 4.9.14-200.fc25.x86_64
firmware-version: N/A
expansion-rom-version:
bus-info: :02:00.0
supports-statistics: yes
supports-test: no
supports-eeprom-access: no
supports-register-dump: no
supports-priv-flags: no

Which is the correct driver, unless there's been a regression. It
seems like key rotation or something is not taking place smoothly. I
see quite a lot of this while it's connected (journactl output, lines
may be truncated):

Mar 24 22:46:13 atlas wpa_supplicant[898]: wlp2s0:
CTRL-EVENT-REGDOM-CHANGE init=CORE type=WORLD
Mar 24 22:46:13 atlas kde5-nm-connection-editor[2310]:
networkmanager-qt: virtual void
NetworkManager::DevicePrivate::propertyChanged(co
Mar 24 22:46:13 atlas wpa_supplicant[898]: wlp2s0: Associated with
xx

Re: Terrible F25 WiFi Performance

[Ian Malone]

On 12 January 2017 at 05:04, Chris Murphy  wrote:
> Damn strange.
>
> The computer is in a static location for all tests. This is still using
> iperf in all cases, but abbreviated since I'm copying by hand. Each test is
> about five seconds apart.
>
> Fedora 25 live
> 58 Mbit/sec
> 61
> 41
>
> Fedora 24 live
> 54 Mbit/sec
> 46
> 38
> 65
>
> Fedora 25 installed
> 29
> 42
> 38
> 38
> co
> There are a total of three wireless devices connected to this AP. All are
> connected  at the same time but only the test client is actively being used
> when the testing is happening. But it's in an apartment building, with
> hundreds of units all of which have wireless APs.
>

Did anyone get to the bottom of this? I installed F25 a couple of
weeks ago and network performance is noticeably poorer on this
machine. When browsing the internet, or particularly on Ajax based
sites like gmail or google search connections seem to just drop. The
previous Fedora that was on this machine (23 I think) was fine, and my
laptop (still on an older Fedora) and other devices have not
experienced any change. Looking in journalctl as root I see frequent
renegotiation with the AP, e.g.:
Mar 24 00:21:29 atlas wpa_supplicant[864]: wlp2s0: SME: Trying to
authenticate with xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx (SSID='X' freq=5200 MHz)
Mar 24 00:21:29 atlas kernel: wlp2s0: disconnect from AP
xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx for new auth to 00:a4:23:17:18:e5
Mar 24 00:21:29 atlas kernel: wlp2s0: authenticate with xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx
Mar 24 00:21:29 atlas kernel: wlp2s0: send auth to xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx (try 1/3)
Mar 24 00:21:29 atlas kernel: wlp2s0: authenticated
Mar 24 00:21:29 atlas kernel: wlp2s0: associate with xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx (try 1/3)
Mar 24 00:21:29 atlas wpa_supplicant[864]: wlp2s0: Trying to associate
with xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx (SSID='X' freq=5200 MHz)
While the machine is supposedly connected.

There's also this,
Mar 24 00:21:29 atlas systemd-udevd[5658]: Process '/usr/sbin/crda'
failed with exit code 249.
which can't be a good sign.

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Re: OT: what does this expression mean?

[Ian Malone]

On 14 September 2016 at 16:34, Todd Zullinger  wrote:

>
> Thanks to all for the question and discussion.  I enjoy diversions like
> this.  I nearly always pick up some new technique and interesting points of
> view.

Yes, interesting to see these discussions ever so often. I wasn't
aware of the BASH_REMATCH trick Christopher posted in another recent
thread, two other nice Bash tricks I stumbled across recently, extglob
applies to subsitutions in parameter expansion and the base of a
number representation can be explicitly specified (preventing problems
when dealing with numbers potentially starting with 0 being
interpreted as octal), . Not
great to get carried away with doing regexs and string manipulation in
bash, but sometimes it's being able to do something minor along those
lines that's the alternative to recasting things into a different
language.

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Re: Security vulnerability in TCP of linux, patches available, how soon in Fedora?

[Ian Malone]

On 10 August 2016 at 06:44, Rick Walker  wrote:
>
>> 1. Open /etc/sysctl.conf, append a command
>> "/net.ipv4/tcp_challenge_ack_limit = 9".
>
> I'm very skeptical.  The default on my stock machine is 100.  You can check
> your own with:
>
>   sysctl -A | grep tcp | grep limit
>
> In the absence of better documentation, I'm guessing that opening the
> ack limit to several million is essentially setting your machine up to
> unlimited hack attack.
>

"   An implementation SHOULD include an ACK throttling mechanism to be
   conservative.  While we have not encountered a case where the lack of
   ACK throttling can be exploited, as a fail-safe mechanism we
   recommend its use.  An implementation may take an excessive number of
   invocations of the throttling mechanism as an indication that network
   conditions are unusual or hostile."
https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5961
I'm not an expert on this, but it appears that RFC5961 describes the
mitigation of this type of attack and the ACK rate limiting is simply
a SHOULD for conservation of resources.

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Re: sed regex oddness

[Ian Malone]

On 5 May 2016 at 10:27, Patrick O'Callaghan  wrote:
> On Wed, 2016-05-04 at 16:24 -0700, Samuel Sieb wrote:
>> Oh, right.  I never use a regexp that can match nothing, so I missed
>> that. :-)
>
> You never use '*'?
>

I guess he meant "match *only* nothing", most of the time using *
you'll still use it in combination with a non-empty pattern. Easy to
miss that only [something]* can match nothing and therefore first
matches at the start of the line.


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Re: Photo app's -

[Ian Malone]

On 12 April 2016 at 06:25, Samuel Sieb  wrote:
> On 04/11/2016 08:43 AM, Bob Goodwin wrote:
>>
>> I just installed simple-mtpfs and gat the following:
>>
>> [root@Box10 bobg]# simple-mtpfs -l
>> No raw devices found.
>> [root@Box10 bobg]# simple-mtpfs -l
>> No raw devices found.
>>
> You said it is a Nikon S3100?  I just checked the manual and the camera
> should support PTP and MTP.  Check the output of:
> lsusb -v -d 04b0:0320
> It should have lines with "Picture Transfer Protocol" and "MTP".
> For example, the following lines are in the info from my phone:
>   bInterfaceSubClass  1 Still Image Capture
>   bInterfaceProtocol  1 Picture Transfer Protocol (PIMA 15470)
>   iInterface  5 MTP
>
> Try installing the gvfs-mtp package.  It would be easiest to reboot after
> installing that so the system tasks get started properly.  Then try plugging
> in the camera to the USB port.
>

"simple-mtpfs -l" doesn't find my Nikon P300 either, despite being
able to find it in the file explorer (dolphin on kde).

For quite some time (though have just checked and it's working again
for me), the machine didn't show the camera as available hardware in
the file explorer or hardware notifications when connected, but I
could still connect to it from dolphin by entering "camera:/" in the
location bar (without the quotes). Don't know if that will work in
gnome.

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Re: rooting/flashing an android phone from fedora

[Ian Malone]

On 17 March 2016 at 14:50, Ranjan Maitra  wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Mar 2016 11:21:20 +0100 Sjoerd Mullender  wrote:
>
>> On 17/03/16 03:28, Ranjan Maitra wrote:
>> > Hello,
>> >
>> > I have been trying to install Cyanogenmod on a Samsung Galaxy Nexus using 
>> > Fedora 23. According to the documentation available at 
>> > http://wiki.cyanogenmod.org/w/Install_CM_for_maguro I have to use adb and 
>> > fastboot which are available on fedora under android-tools. So, all of it 
>> > is downloaded without a hitch, but I can not get adb or fastboot to 
>> > "work". Reading on, I have tried the workarounds proposed, to no avail. It 
>> > appears that I need to add my username to a group plugdev but there is no 
>> > group by that name. I tried using
>> >
>> > sudo groupadd plugdev
>> >
>> > and that did add the group. Next, I tried:
>> >
>> > sudo gpasswd -a username plugdev
>> >
>> > as per http://wiki.cyanogenmod.org/w/UDEV
>> >
>> > with my username in place but still:
>> >
>> > $ groups
>> > username wheel
>> >
>> > However, system-config-users indicates that the group plugdev is checked.
>> >
>> > Needless to say, I have come to a halt. Is there any workaround (or even a 
>> > better approach using Fedora) for this task?
>> >
>> > Many thanks and best wishes,
>>
>> Logout and back in.  Groups are initialized on login.
>
> Thanks! Btw, this next question is more general: is there any other option 
> other than logout and log back in to initialize groups? (I really do not 
> always want to logout and log back in.)
>

They're picked up at login. For your desktop environment that counts
as when you log in to the desktop. Your console windows will generally
be set to not start as a login shell, so they get whatever groups you
had when you started the desktop. It can be changed within a login
window by starting a new login, either by running "login" or "su -
USERNAMEHERE", or you can alter your terminal program settings to
start new windows as a new login.
http://superuser.com/questions/272061/reload-a-linux-users-group-assignments-without-logging-out
seems to suggest it might be possible without doing a login, but none
of those suggestions look very reliable (maybe newgrp if it works).


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Re: Protecting my network from rogue IoT devices.

[Ian Malone]

On 29 February 2016 at 17:49, Niels Kobschaetzki  wrote:
> On 16/02/29 12:24, Javier Perez wrote:
>>
>> Probably Off Topic, but maybe tangentially related to Fedora.
>>
>> I read with interest this forum piece about IoT devices phoning home.
>>
>>
>> https://isc.sans.edu/forums/diary/IoT+The+Rise+of+the+Machines+Guest+Diary/19173/
>>
>> What caught my attention is the following phrase: " My home network
>> is hardened and any new (unknown) device connected to it receives an IP
>> address from a specific range which has no connectivity with other hosts
>> or
>> the Internet but its packets are logged"
>>
>> I imagine it is done through the Gateway Router at home. Is there any
>> tutorial somewhere to learn how to do this?
>
>
> Out of my head you would need to implement 802.1x with a radius-server
> and depending on the Mac a device gets into one of two VLANs and then a
> DHCP-server hands out an IP-address depending on the VLAN. The
> DHCP-server has one network-device in one VLAN and one in another VLAN,
> both have different subnets. And then there is an additional firewall
> (needs probably 3 network devices, one for each VLAN, one for WAN) that
> manages the traffic between the networks (firewalld, iptables,
> nftables). The subnet that is in the VLAN for the unknown devices
> redirects all traffic that should go into the internet through a proxy
> (squid) which logs everything. The inter-network-traffic can be logged
> by the firewall. At least that's what I would do with a
> wired network.
> I am not sure how you would realize that with WLANs.
> The only idea I would have is that there are two different WLANs. One
> for trusted, one for untrusted devices. The one with the untrusted
> devices routes internet-traffic again through a proxy. And you need a
> again the firewall for the inter-network-traffic. In both cases a router
> might be enough, but tbh I am not sure right now.
> I hope that gives you enough into your hand to be able to get to the
> right answers in google.

I think you and Pete Travis are right that you'd need two wlans, a MAC
address-based approach could be defeated by an attacker (think
compromised device). It doesn't look like RADIUS allows the level of
control where different authentication credentials can be granted
different access, which is the only way I can think of to achieve it
securely, so they have to join separate networks they need to
authenticate too.

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Re: sudo disappears after latest update

[Ian Malone]

On 11 February 2016 at 18:33, jd1008 <jd1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> On 02/11/2016 05:41 AM, Ian Malone wrote:
>>
>> On 10 February 2016 at 23:22, jd1008 <jd1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> I am sorry to burst the bubble that was perpetrated by Sun Microsystems.
>>> I worked at Sun Microsystems as a contractor and talked to a very senior
>>> developer at Menlo Park. I knew this developer from working with him in
>>> a previous company. Under my oath never to reveal his name, he clued me
>>> in
>>> that the fictitious "sandbox" was the entire system. Sun was clever to
>>> use
>>> the
>>> term sandbox as a subterfuge for the silicon of the chips.
>>> This "sandbox=entire system" was confirmed to me in an email from another
>>> very senior developer who is still on this list, but will not expose his
>>> name.
>>> He confirmed that the sandbox is the entirety of the system.
>>> Reason why some people will go to email flame wars on this issue is
>>> because
>>> either it is their penny at stake, or they are obeying their superiors.
>>
>> Without details as to what language and vm it refers to unfortunately
>> this is not a very useful anecdote. The plugin sandbox that firefox or
>> edge use is not the same as a javascript sandbox in netscape (was
>> there one?), or a java sandbox.
>
> So, you keep sanctioning and spreading and supporting the illusion of
> security?
> Such a sad position to adopt.
>
>
>

I'm afraid your only viable solution is to never connect to the internet again.

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Re: sudo disappears after latest update

[Ian Malone]

On 10 February 2016 at 23:22, jd1008  wrote:
>
>

> I am sorry to burst the bubble that was perpetrated by Sun Microsystems.
> I worked at Sun Microsystems as a contractor and talked to a very senior
> developer at Menlo Park. I knew this developer from working with him in
> a previous company. Under my oath never to reveal his name, he clued me in
> that the fictitious "sandbox" was the entire system. Sun was clever to use
> the
> term sandbox as a subterfuge for the silicon of the chips.
> This "sandbox=entire system" was confirmed to me in an email from another
> very senior developer who is still on this list, but will not expose his
> name.
> He confirmed that the sandbox is the entirety of the system.
> Reason why some people will go to email flame wars on this issue is because
> either it is their penny at stake, or they are obeying their superiors.

Without details as to what language and vm it refers to unfortunately
this is not a very useful anecdote. The plugin sandbox that firefox or
edge use is not the same as a javascript sandbox in netscape (was
there one?), or a java sandbox.

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Re: sending data to usb port

[Ian Malone]

On 5 February 2016 at 13:24, Matthew Miller  wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 05, 2016 at 03:06:19PM +0300, Hiisi wrote:
>> > Yes. Well, C. http://libusb.info/
>> Thanks a lot!
>> Stupid gmail webinterface doesn't allow me to change topic. Otherwise I
>> would mark the topic as [solved].
>
> Well, it's a mailing list, so you can't really change the whole thread
> topic. But you _can_, in gmail, change the subject any given reply by
> clicking on the little drop-down triangle to the left of the address
> bar in your reply.
>

Regrettably that will cause gmail to drop the references headers,
breaking threading for everyone reading it (or did last time I looked
at it). Doing it in a real mail client should work properly.

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Re: cdrdao and gcdmaster

[Ian Malone]

On 27 January 2016 at 00:05, jd1008 <jd1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> On 01/26/2016 04:59 PM, Ian Malone wrote:
>>
>> On 26 January 2016 at 21:05, jd1008 <jd1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Have cdrdao-1.2.3-23.fc22.x86_64 installed, but no gcdmaster available.
>>> Does anyone know of whereabouts of it?
>>> dnf says no match for gcdmaster.
>>>
>> Looks gone, merged into cdrdao,
>>
>> http://pkgs.fedoraproject.org/cgit/rpms/gcdmaster.git/
>>
>> Then removed and obsoleted due to dependencies:
>>
>> http://pkgs.fedoraproject.org/cgit/rpms/cdrdao.git/log/
>>
>> Think F15 must have been the last release that had it.
>>
> Alas, your finding are like mine.
> The problem with building from fc15 is that it requires (per the configure
> file)
> something like LIBGUIMM2
> which google fails to find.
>

gnomeuimm, also seems to be long-deprecated, to the point I can't
actually find documentation for it either. gtk3mm may be the
replacement. Would guess it'd be necessary to port it to get it to
work as this stage. Why gcdmaster in particular? Reading toc files?

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Re: selinux??

[Ian Malone]

On 27 January 2016 at 02:41, Shawn Bakhtiar <shashan...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Jan 26, 2016, at 10:33 AM, Ian Malone <ibmal...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On 26 January 2016 at 17:23, Shawn Bakhtiar <shashan...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Jan 26, 2016, at 9:13 AM, Ian Malone <ibmal...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 26 January 2016 at 17:07, Shawn Bakhtiar <shashan...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> I couldn't agree more bruce.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's the 1% who get paid too much for doing too little that have such 
>>>>> indulgent luxuries.
>>>>>
>>>>> The rest of us 99% have to work for it :P
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Remember that next time your bank gets hacked.
>>>>
>>> Seriously!!?!??! You're comparing a multi-bilion dollar multi-national 
>>> institution with a SMB/SOHO engineer. Sorry they fall int the 1% last I 
>>> checked.
>>
>> Every two bit company that leaks other people's data because they
>> can't be bothered makes things worse for its customers. Who are often
>> soon ex-customers. Which means SMBs become former SMBs.
>>
>
> This is such a load of fear mongering crap. You are acting as if SELinux is 
> the end all and be all of security, which any “two bit” sysadmin can tell you 
> it is not. It is a SMALL part of security one that for the pain it causes is 
> simply not worth it.
>
> In fact there isn’t a single good reason to have SELinux enabled out of the 
> box (or SystemD for that matter- whole other story).
>
> The functions it (as with systemD) servers are limited to a select area of 
> operations.
>

It's fairly clear you've understood nothing I said. Pointless to continue.

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Re: selinux??

[Ian Malone]

On 26 January 2016 at 16:57, bruce  wrote:
> What the Heck???
>
> So.. people who think/decide to just disable seLinux, instead of
> diving in to "learn" it are just lazy  Lord.. shaking my head..
>
> How about.. some might be lazy..
>
> Or, some have a bunch of different things to get accomplished, and
> aren't looking to be a sysAdmin, so they want to (if possible) get to
> the quickest way of getting their "project" working/tested.. And if
> the "security/process" of X (in this case selinux) is in the way.. The
> learning required to implement that gets shoved back. It's a
> prioritization process for a bunch of people.
>
> You have a limited amount of resources, you priortize and keep going.
> And yeah, you realize that you might be cutting corners re security,
> but you keep going.
>
> And before people say, "you need to learn security, or you shouldn't
> be writing apps!!".. not going to happen.
>
> Implementing "good" secutiry, doesn't happen by spending a few hours
> on a few sites. You eventually run into issues that "need to be
> solved", etc.. which then adds time/effort/resources. And rightly so,
> this is why you have skilled sysAdmin resources. But smaller projects
> don't have the resources for this process.. so it becomes a matter of
> prioritization/resource allocation..
>
> And I say again.. I've been willing to pay hard $$$ for someone
> willing to work with me on security.. No takers..!!!
>

If you're really interested in that then it would be better to
actually advertise.

The central point here, you seem to be arguing that you should disable
all security because you don't have time to learn it and it's
difficult. But I bet you don't plan to just make everything on the
machine world writable and turn off the firewall. Things like SELinux
are actually there to help you. They can't make you do things like
properly encrypt user logins, but they can reduce the risk it's going
to matter. What I've been trying to say is leave it on and there are
plenty of people that can give you advice if you run into problems.

And yes, there are people that should not write apps if they aren't
going to bother with security. If you're not from the UK then search
google for Talktalk hacked, or imagine what would happen if people
could get at your uber account details. Failing to protect user data
properly over here (UK) can attract serious fines.

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Re: selinux??

[Ian Malone]

On 26 January 2016 at 17:07, Shawn Bakhtiar  wrote:
> I couldn't agree more bruce.
>
> It's the 1% who get paid too much for doing too little that have such 
> indulgent luxuries.
>
> The rest of us 99% have to work for it :P
>
>

Remember that next time your bank gets hacked.


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Re: selinux??

[Ian Malone]

On 26 January 2016 at 17:23, Shawn Bakhtiar <shashan...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Jan 26, 2016, at 9:13 AM, Ian Malone <ibmal...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On 26 January 2016 at 17:07, Shawn Bakhtiar <shashan...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> I couldn't agree more bruce.
>>>
>>> It's the 1% who get paid too much for doing too little that have such 
>>> indulgent luxuries.
>>>
>>> The rest of us 99% have to work for it :P
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Remember that next time your bank gets hacked.
>>
> Seriously!!?!??! You're comparing a multi-bilion dollar multi-national 
> institution with a SMB/SOHO engineer. Sorry they fall int the 1% last I 
> checked.

Every two bit company that leaks other people's data because they
can't be bothered makes things worse for its customers. Who are often
soon ex-customers. Which means SMBs become former SMBs.

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Re: cdrdao and gcdmaster

[Ian Malone]

On 26 January 2016 at 21:05, jd1008  wrote:
> Have cdrdao-1.2.3-23.fc22.x86_64 installed, but no gcdmaster available.
> Does anyone know of whereabouts of it?
> dnf says no match for gcdmaster.
>

Looks gone, merged into cdrdao,

http://pkgs.fedoraproject.org/cgit/rpms/gcdmaster.git/

Then removed and obsoleted due to dependencies:

http://pkgs.fedoraproject.org/cgit/rpms/cdrdao.git/log/

Think F15 must have been the last release that had it.

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Re: selinux??

[Ian Malone]

On 25 January 2016 at 14:28, Tim  wrote:
> Allegedly, on or about 25 January 2016, bruce sent:
>> I fully get the need for security.. But if I can't get the security
>> working as it should, but I still need to build whatever the project
>> might be.. the project is going to get created.
>>
>> If running Selinux in permissive mode is enough, great, so be it.
>
> SELinux in permissive mode is *not* secure.  You're using the computer
> in an insecure mode, and all SELinux is doing is logging the things that
> it would have stopped.
>

I have actually once seen permissive mode preventing login, IIRC this
was something to do with PackageKit doing its own context based
checks.

As for the rest though, Miroslav's reply is spot on, if there are
specific problems or issues then get help from the selinux list to
sort them out, but the policy setup and tools are mature enough at
this point that it's rare. If Bruce is really concerned, run
permissive, check there's no alerts coming up then switch to
enforcing. Worst that happens is you have to kill that instance
because you lose access, and like I've said I think that's hard to do.
It's not something that's suddenly going to kick you out during
operation in any normal circumstance.

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Re: selinux??

[Ian Malone]

On 25 January 2016 at 15:56,   wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Jan 2016, Tim wrote:
>
>>
>> I watched a friend get his box hacked four seconds after establishing a
>> network connection.  He had to re-install to fix the problem.  Same
>> thing happened the next two times he connected up.  I just about wet
>> myself laughing.  It took him three hacks before he wised up that he
>> needed to run protective software all the time.  Drop your guard for a
>> second (or at least a few seconds), and that's enough.
>>
>
> Did you mean "hacked" or "attacked?"  It seems to me that if there are
> successful intrusions by scripted attacks within four seconds of
> installation of a linux distro, it's either the wrong distro or it's wrongly
> installed -- with or without selinux enabled.
>

I have to admit I've heard this often enough (usually about windows),
but not seen it either, Windows or Linux, but I only do installs on
machines that aren't ethernet networked or are behind a NAT.

> The problem I see with selinux is that it is so user-unfriendly.  These
> kinds of things always seem easy and straightforward to someone who knows it
> well.  That's the nature of skill, regardless of the kind of skill it is.
>

> That's what I think of when I read these discussions.  If someone is
> struggling with something like this, they may seem like morons, but it is
> usually someting *other* than simple supidity or laziness that is the
> reason.  It's because the barrier to doing it is greater than the perceived
> benefit.
>

The take-home message, if there is one is this:
*You generally do not need to do anything*
(for SELinux anyway, there are some services I'd normally use that I'd
lock down a bit)

The policies in Fedora are meant to work out of the box. There are
some cases (generally if a file is moved to a location rather than
created there) where you find you need to add labels, and this is
really simple, e.g.
http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=296243, which amounts
to make sure the files are in the right place and run restorecon.

For some things like home directory http you need to confirm that you
want them enabled, install policycoreutils-gui and run
system-config-selinux to get a gui for controlling them.
https://wiki.centos.org/TipsAndTricks/SelinuxBooleans has a list.

Really this thread isn't going to get very far, because it's based
around completely hypothetical problems which are impossible to fix
because their only definition is they are caused by selinux.

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Re: selinux??

[Ian Malone]

On 25 January 2016 at 08:02, bruce  wrote:
> Look.
>
> I fully get the need for security.. But if I can't get the security
> working as it should, but I still need to build whatever the project
> might be.. the project is going to get created.
>
> If running Selinux in permissive mode is enough, great, so be it. But
> when it comes to policies, for differnt users, applications,
> files,etc.. and the possiblity of screwing something up if you go
> wrong, then you have a bit of an issue there...  And you can't simpy
> tell someone, "if you don't know what you're doing, don't mess with
> linux!" Not going to happen..
>
> But hey.. to each his/her own.
>
> My goal wasn't to start a war.. Lord knows there are plenty of those
> on the 'net already!
>
> Thanks to all who've replied.
>

I think it's partly the direction you started from, which is expecting
there's going to be a problem and planning to turn off SELinux to
forestall it. You may run into problems, but these days they're not
that hard to sort out. sealert is useful if do you think SELinux is
preventing something running and then you can check what the context
should be 
https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-US/Red_Hat_Enterprise_Linux/6/html/Security-Enhanced_Linux/sect-Security-Enhanced_Linux-Fixing_Problems-Searching_For_and_Viewing_Denials.html

If starting from nothing then it's probably easier to go from that
direction than start from having it turned off and enabling it once
everything is done. At that point if things stop working then finding
out what the issue is is going to be harder. I think your original
concern was you might have, "an instance that has problems".  If you
have ssh access or something then it's not going to go away due to
SELinux. If your only access into the system is a web interface it's
hosting then that could happen.

What SELinux tries to do is constrain access by services to only the
resources they need, whether that's files (for http servers for
example) or types of memory access, in an attempt to limit the
exposure to a compromised application. The fewer outside facing
services you have the less exposed you are. If you needed to grant
unrestricted access to a service that becomes compromised then you
lost the game anyway, whether you did that by turning off SELinux or
by granting that access to that context. But most of the time the
default policies will do what you want and are trivial to apply if
something goes wrong. You don't have to set them up yourself for users
and applications.

Tools like restorecon and fixfiles
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SELinux/fixfiles can be used to apply
labelling if you've ended up with files that don't have context. "ls
-Z" will quickly tell you if your files are missing context.

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Re: Audio CD burner question

[Ian Malone]

On 24 January 2016 at 20:57, Fred Smith  wrote:
> On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 11:26:42AM -0700, jd1008 wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 01/24/2016 11:20 AM, Klaus-Peter Schrage wrote:
>> >Am 23.01.2016 um 03:39 schrieb jd1008:
>> >>Tried a few audio cd burners, but none of them seem to have
>> >>an option to automagically include each track title as CD text
>> >>for each track.
>> >>If anyone knows of such a burner (Open Source), would like to
>> >>hear about it.
>> >>
>> >>Thanx.
>> >I have had quite a few burners in the last 15 years or so, and as
>> >far as I can remember, none of them was NOT capable of writing CD
>> >Text.
>> >K3B has an option of editing and burning CD Text.
>> K3B pops up a banner, saying:
>>
>> MP3 Audio Decoder plugin not found.
>> K3b could not load or find the MP3 decoder plugin. This means that
>> you will not be able to create Audio CDs from MP3 files. Many Linux
>> distributions do not include MP3 support for legal reasons.
>> Solution: To enable MP3 support, please install the MAD MP3 decoding
>> library as well as the K3b MAD MP3 decoder plugin (the latter may
>> already be installed but not functional due to the missing libmad).
>> Some distributions allow installation of MP3 support via an online
>> update tool.
>
> as far as I recall, K3b wants "lame":
>
> lame.x86_643.99.5-2.el7   
> nux-dextop
> lame-debuginfo.x86_64  3.99.5-2.el7   
> nux-dextop
> lame-devel.x86_64  3.99.5-2.el7   
> nux-dextop
> lame-mp3x.x86_64   3.99.5-2.el7   
> nux-dextop
>

mp3 support is orthogonal to CD text support, to create an audio CD
K3B needs to be able to convert the files to wav format, meaning if
you're using mp3 to create an audio CD then you need mp3 support to do
it. CD text is an option you can turn on when burning audio CDs
https://doc.opensuse.org/documentation/html/openSUSE_113/opensuse-apps/cha.k3b.html
a while since I've created one, I think it will probably automatically
read the metadata for you when you add a track, but you can set
whatever titles you want (within the length limits).

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Re: selinux??

[Ian Malone]

On 24 January 2016 at 15:11, bruce  wrote:
>> I am always amazed that people think shutting off a security
>> something-or-other for some-amount-of-time can be considered safe.
>>
>> It takes virtually the blink of an eye to get compromised.
>>
>> If you need to turn off a security feature to do something, then there's
>> something wrong with that /thing/ that required it.  It could simply be
>> crap programming, or it could be malicious.  And even crap programming
>> can be destructive outside of its own files.
>>
>
> really???
>
> it could also be, prob often is.. is that the person who's doing X is
> simply trying to get something done, and not be a Sys Admin!!!
>
> Doing security right.. is an effort in understanding the nuances.. If
> you've been playing with OS X, than you might have insight into what's
> required. But someone who's not gotten into the "guts" of what
> something like SeLinux requires, might not have an understanding of
> what needs to be configured, or exactly how to configure it, etc..
>
> Or configuring security (firewall, process restrictions, user
> restrictions, port issues, rootkit protections, file restrictions,
> etc.. ) might be fairly easy to setup, just not obvious to the casual
> user on how to do it.
>
> I haven't met a lot of people in my 30+ years of tech who just gloss
> over the impotance of security.. I have met alot who aren't sys
> admins.. and, even thought they create software projects from time to
> time.. wouldn't have a "clue" as to exactly how to set up a good
> secure system.. even thought they'd all say.. would be nice to do it!!
>

You are unlikely to be able to lock yourself out of a system with a
default SELinux setup (I wont say it's impossible, but I think you'd
have to intentionally create a policy to do it). The kinds of problems
you tend to run into for which turning it off is a quick workaround
are trying to serve files that have the wrong context set, e.g. html
not in the right place or java applets with the wrong settings.
(libexec on exectuables that need it is another good one) Usually
things don't work outright.

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Re: pdf-stapler

[Ian Malone]

On 14 January 2016 at 18:38, Raman Gupta <rocketra...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 01/14/2016 01:27 PM, Ian Malone wrote:
>> On 14 January 2016 at 18:19, Ian Malone <ibmal...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 14 January 2016 at 13:58, Ted Roche <tedro...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> This was discussed last year. I think the mcpdf utility also depends
>>>> on iText, which has some licensing issues.
>>>>
>>>> Here is some of that discussion:
>>>>
>>>> https://ask.fedoraproject.org/en/question/65261/pdftk-not-in-f21/
>>>>
>>>> I also have client applications that depend on pdftk. My solution was
>>>> to switch them to Ubuntu.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I'm not sure that was the problem last time, there was also something
>>> about libgcj being needed. I know this keeps going round in circles,
>>> so apologies if I'm repeating old information, but I think this is
>>> what killed it when rpmfusion tried,
>>> http://lists.rpmfusion.org/pipermail/rpmfusion-developers/2009-January/003671.html
>>>
>>
>> Current itext license in case mcpdf is actually a possibility. Would
>> probably need someone from fedora legal to check it's acceptable as
>> they've used some modifications, which may be allowed by the APL, but
>> I know itext has a little history with making non-free modifications
>> to free licenses:
>> https://github.com/itext/itextpdf/blob/master/LICENSE.md
>>
>
> No, I believe the ambiguous additional language at the end of that
> page, requiring a commercial license in certain situations, is the
> actual problem. Here is the relevant post from Redhat legal:
>
> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/legal/2011-June/001656.html
>

Fairly comprehensive then. I didn't look back far enough...

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Re: pdf-stapler

[Ian Malone]

On 9 January 2016 at 16:09, Ranjan Maitra  wrote:
> Dear friends,
>
> pdf-stapler has finally made it to the Fedora testing repos on Bodhi.
>
> See: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1234210
>
> If you are in need of this alternative/workaround to the discontinued pdftk, 
> please test and provide karma feedback.
>
> Many thanks,
> Ranjan
>

Thanks, have missed having pdftk around. Will have a look in a while
if karma still required. Anything in particular need checking?

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Re: pdf-stapler

[Ian Malone]

On 14 January 2016 at 13:58, Ted Roche  wrote:
> This was discussed last year. I think the mcpdf utility also depends
> on iText, which has some licensing issues.
>
> Here is some of that discussion:
>
> https://ask.fedoraproject.org/en/question/65261/pdftk-not-in-f21/
>
> I also have client applications that depend on pdftk. My solution was
> to switch them to Ubuntu.
>

I'm not sure that was the problem last time, there was also something
about libgcj being needed. I know this keeps going round in circles,
so apologies if I'm repeating old information, but I think this is
what killed it when rpmfusion tried,
http://lists.rpmfusion.org/pipermail/rpmfusion-developers/2009-January/003671.html


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Re: pdf-stapler

[Ian Malone]

On 14 January 2016 at 18:19, Ian Malone <ibmal...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 14 January 2016 at 13:58, Ted Roche <tedro...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> This was discussed last year. I think the mcpdf utility also depends
>> on iText, which has some licensing issues.
>>
>> Here is some of that discussion:
>>
>> https://ask.fedoraproject.org/en/question/65261/pdftk-not-in-f21/
>>
>> I also have client applications that depend on pdftk. My solution was
>> to switch them to Ubuntu.
>>
>
> I'm not sure that was the problem last time, there was also something
> about libgcj being needed. I know this keeps going round in circles,
> so apologies if I'm repeating old information, but I think this is
> what killed it when rpmfusion tried,
> http://lists.rpmfusion.org/pipermail/rpmfusion-developers/2009-January/003671.html
>

Current itext license in case mcpdf is actually a possibility. Would
probably need someone from fedora legal to check it's acceptable as
they've used some modifications, which may be allowed by the APL, but
I know itext has a little history with making non-free modifications
to free licenses:
https://github.com/itext/itextpdf/blob/master/LICENSE.md

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Re: mpg123 not included, why?

[Ian Malone]

On 12 January 2016 at 21:34, Fernando Cassia <fcas...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Tue, Jan 12, 2016 at 1:01 PM, Ian Malone <ibmal...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Of course you can have single tools that act on files to get well
>> defined information. But while it's a useful model it doesn't work
>> well in all situations.
>
>
> All I wanted was mpg123 so I could play a darn mp3 file. ;)
> KDE/Gnome wizards can code their brains out until it required a 4-core 4Ghz
> CPU to play a mp3 file, but I'd stick with mpg123 which worked well since
> the days of the AMD K6-III 450 Mhz ;)
>

Peace.


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Re: mpg123 not included, why?

[Ian Malone]

On 13 January 2016 at 06:58, Tim  wrote:
> Tim:
>>> That can't be the only place they're put.
>
>
> Fernando Cassia:
>> The ID3 info is put at the end of MP3 files, that is per design.
>> (Actually, a clever hack, so mp3 player that don't know anything about
>> id3 could still play the files).
>
> But I've listened to radio streams using MP3 encoding, and it's had data
> about what's on while it's on, not after.
>

Various ways this can be done, ID3v2 goes at the start for this
purpose (though later versions can be put at the end too, just to be
confusing). But it can also be communicated out of channel, e.g.
https://forums.radiotoolbox.com/viewtopic.php?t=74 "Client to server"
and "meta title streaming", shoutcast provides titles in the returned
request header, it also includes metadata at intervals (and the header
says what intervals, at least that's my understanding). In both cases
the method is negotiated between client and server, to avoid tripping
up clients that don't understand this information.


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Re: mpg123 not included, why?

[Ian Malone]

On 12 January 2016 at 13:39, Fernando Cassia  wrote:
>
> On Tue, Jan 12, 2016 at 8:24 AM, Michael Schwendt 
> wrote:
>>
>> Which would get funny, if you wanted to seek back and forth in a large
>> chunk of data fed to a program via stdin, such as when searching for ID3
>> tags in an MP3 file.
>
>
> Which gets back to my point, that doesn't prevent big media players from
> implementing their own codecs, internally.
>
> Does Gnome/Nautilus mean that there is no place for the command line "tar"
> command? or 'unzip' ?
>

Of course not. However "the Unix way", while very powerful in certain
contexts, doesn't work at all well for interactive use, or tasks that
require communication between multiple data sources. There are command
line encoders / decoders for many codecs. For some that does mean you
have to wrangle with something like mencoder and worry about things
like transport mechanisms. Which is the first thing you notice when
dealing with anything more complex than mp3, mp3 itself mixes the
transport and encoding, which makes it fairly simple to deal with.
Actually, the various ID3 tags that Michael refers to are separate
binary blocks bunged on at the end. Reading as a stream you can't
actually access those, for example to display while playing, until
*after* you've had all the audio data.

To be stricly consistent with "the Unix way" (which has never really
been the only way of doing things under Unix, but a convenient way of
handling data that can be processed in a stream), you would have to
stream the output of the decoder to the sound device too, probably via
sox to convert the sample format (and possibly resample the
frequency). Want to play back something that has a different sampling
rate to your soundcard's default? You have to force resampling,
because otherwise you'd have to communicate and negotiate sample rates
out-of-channel. Similarly searching within a stream isn't allowed,
because anything except a fixed bitrate input (which is very few audio
codecs and almost no compressed video ones) requires the demuxer to be
able to search through the input file (more trivially, going backwards
is obviously not possible).

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Re: mpg123 not included, why?

[Ian Malone]

On 12 January 2016 at 13:40, Fernando Cassia  wrote:
>
> On Tue, Jan 12, 2016 at 8:24 AM, Michael Schwendt 
> wrote:
>>
>> such as when searching for ID3
>> tags in an MP3 file.
>
>
> You could also use gnu 'tail' part of gnu textutils -I believe it's now
> called coreutils-, to get the last 'n'  bytes of a file, and there's your
> ID3 info...
>

Well, you'd use id3info, because the id3v2 tag is not guaranteed to be
a particular length and may also contain binary information. But,
correct tool aside, the more relevant point is this information is not
actually available to a player that is playing this as an input stream
until the complete stream has been received. If you want to do that
you have to cheat and cache everything before you start playback. Or,
in more general terms, doing anything non-linear with multimedia
information is very difficult to handle in a streamed manner.

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Re: mpg123 not included, why?

[Ian Malone]

On 12 January 2016 at 16:17, Fernando Cassia <fcas...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Tue, Jan 12, 2016 at 10:59 AM, Ian Malone <ibmal...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> You are proposing having an http server in the way as *simpler*?
>> Anyway, again, id3 tag lengths are not fixed.
>
>
> don't twist my words, Ian.
>
> I introduced a web server into the argument that you can't get id3 tags with
> a single tool, and you used the word "stream" by which I thought you mean
> music streaming from a web site (web server).
>
> So you CAN extract id3 data from mp3 files, whether locally (by using tail
> or id3tool or anything else) before loading the entire file. That was my
> point.
>
> And most MP3 files have ID3v1, not id3v2. ID3 v1 is fixed length @ 128
> bytes.
>
> http://id3.org/ID3v1
>

Where do I say anything else? Why are we on this bizarre sidetrack
about whether you can use tail to get id3 information? You're already
proposing effectively rebuilding id3info just because *part* of its
job can be done with text handling tools in some, but not all cases.
That is crazy and pointless. id3info is exactly the minimalist tool to
do this job and handle all the corner cases.

> ID3v2, on the other hand, is added at the start of the file. So you can
> check the last 128 bytes of the file to see if it's got ID3v1, and if not,
> check for ID3v2 at the start...
>

My point is still that you are scanning the whole file to do this. The
simple model for command line utilities that can be chained together
requires that a file argument can be replaced by stdin/stdout, which
for this case it cannot without taking liberties about what that
means. If I do xzcat < somefile > somefile.xz, data gets written as it
gets processed, we don't have to read and cache the whole of somefile
first.

Of course you can have single tools that act on files to get well
defined information. But while it's a useful model it doesn't work
well in all situations.

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Re: mpg123 not included, why?

[Ian Malone]

On 12 January 2016 at 14:31, Fernando Cassia <fcas...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Tue, Jan 12, 2016 at 9:21 AM, Ian Malone <ibmal...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> If you want to do that
>> you have to cheat and cache everything before you start playback. Or,
>> in more general terms, doing anything non-linear with multimedia
>> information is very difficult to handle in a streamed manner
>
>
> No. I never said I wanted to "stream" anything. I wanted to play a local mp3
> file sitting on my hard drive, to the default speakers. Mpg123 serves that
> purpose.
> And as it fits the bill of "the unix way" (a simle, self-contained tool
> doing a single thing and doing it efficiently),IMHO it should be part of the
> standard toolset. That was my reasoning and I stick with that.
>

By stream I mean pipe in this context, a single data stream, which is
what people typically mean when they talk about "the unix way", where
separate processing steps can be chained together. Of course since
there isn't one Unix way people can mean lots of different things.

> Now, if we drift the topic to "how to do a mp3 player" I bet I could design
> a player using mpg123 and standard command line gnu tools that performs much
> faster than one relying on the tons of smegma that come along Gstreamer +
> GUI toolkits that Gnome/KDE multimedia APIs.
>

Of course you could, it's called mpg123. It has terminal controls, you
don't really need to add tar, awk or cpio to it to make it work. Now
let's see it support wav, Vorbis, Opus and AAC.

> What you call "cheating" (pre-loading the id3 info before loading every song
> instead of loading the whole file into ram, seeking to the end, and
> extracting the id3 info as each file is played) is actually efficient
> design, in my book.
>

It is cheating insofar as it does not work in a single data pipe
without caching the entire stream, which doesn't scale well for long
streams.

> Btw: id3 info could be obtained by using the http feature of requesting part
> of a file(*), by first obtaining the file size, closing the connection, then
> requesting the last "x" bytes (total file size - id3), that way you get your
> Id3 over "streaming" before requesting the whole file. :)
>

You are proposing having an http server in the way as *simpler*?
Anyway, again, id3 tag lengths are not fixed.

Media players do not fit well into the 'simple tool does one thing to
a file' model because they are always expected to do other things. An
interactive command line tool like mpg123 is already well beyond the
simple single data stream in single data stream out model.

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Re: mpg123 not included, why?

[Ian Malone]

On 11 January 2016 at 01:35, Tim  wrote:
> Allegedly, on or about 10 January 2016, Philip Brown sent:
>> however, in a couple of very simple steps, this gives me a very usable
>> multimedia system on my default fedora workstation without having to
>> install any additional repos. which for me is awesome.
>>
>> and I can confirm all I had to do was download and extract .so files
>> from the following 2 rpms:
>> http://download1.rpmfusion.org/free/fedora/releases/22/Everything/x86_64/os/repoview/gstreamer1-libav.html
>> http://download1.rpmfusion.org/free/fedora/releases/22/Everything/x86_64/os/repoview/gstreamer-plugins-ugly.html
>>
>> really that simple, no dealing with runtime linker search paths,
>> additional rpm dependencies  or anything like that.
>>
>> ok I admit, in the long run, maybe it is planless, however this is not
>> intended as a complete solution intended to work forever, it will get
>> you up and running now and will probably keep working in the future
>> but as listed above it is not a repo sysyem with dnf/yum updates and
>> there will come a day when dependencies mismatch but... c'est la vie.
>
> That's all very well, if you never intend to do a yum update again, in
> the future.  But if you do, then you've got to deal with all the
> breakage that ensues.  Which is going to be more work than simply
> installing the repo, and installing the files you need, letting the
> system do the work for you.
>

Yes, this is why I don't see any benefit to this approach at all. You
have to manually download the right rpms, extract libraries, move them
into place and then they'll stop working if you ever update the
installed programs. On top of which codecs are a great target for
vulnerabilities, so worth keeping them up to date. To me this seems
much more work than installing the rpmfusion repo, which involves
clicking two links at , and you get a less
reliable setup out of it. The rpmfusion guys do a great job and it
integrates with the fedora repos, many of the people there are also
fedora project packagers. Particularly over things like gstreamer
where the plugins provided will work with fedora gstreamer directly.

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Re: mpg123 not included, why?

[Ian Malone]

On 11 January 2016 at 11:42, Philip Brown <philip.br...@kiwienglish.es> wrote:
> On 01/11/2016 11:48 AM, Ian Malone wrote:
>>
>> On 11 January 2016 at 01:35, Tim <ignored_mail...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
>>>
>>> Allegedly, on or about 10 January 2016, Philip Brown sent:
>>>>
>>>> however, in a couple of very simple steps, this gives me a very usable
>>>> multimedia system on my default fedora workstation without having to
>>>> install any additional repos. which for me is awesome.
>>>>
>>>> and I can confirm all I had to do was download and extract .so files
>>>> from the following 2 rpms:
>>>>
>>>> http://download1.rpmfusion.org/free/fedora/releases/22/Everything/x86_64/os/repoview/gstreamer1-libav.html
>>>>
>>>> http://download1.rpmfusion.org/free/fedora/releases/22/Everything/x86_64/os/repoview/gstreamer-plugins-ugly.html
>>>>
>>>> really that simple, no dealing with runtime linker search paths,
>>>> additional rpm dependencies  or anything like that.
>>>>
>>>> ok I admit, in the long run, maybe it is planless, however this is not
>>>> intended as a complete solution intended to work forever, it will get
>>>> you up and running now and will probably keep working in the future
>>>> but as listed above it is not a repo sysyem with dnf/yum updates and
>>>> there will come a day when dependencies mismatch but... c'est la vie.
>>>
>>> That's all very well, if you never intend to do a yum update again, in
>>> the future.  But if you do, then you've got to deal with all the
>>> breakage that ensues.  Which is going to be more work than simply
>>> installing the repo, and installing the files you need, letting the
>>> system do the work for you.
>>>
>> Yes, this is why I don't see any benefit to this approach at all. You
>> have to manually download the right rpms, extract libraries, move them
>> into place and then they'll stop working if you ever update the
>> installed programs. On top of which codecs are a great target for
>> vulnerabilities, so worth keeping them up to date. To me this seems
>> much more work than installing the rpmfusion repo, which involves
>> clicking two links at <http://rpmfusion.org/>, and you get a less
>> reliable setup out of it. The rpmfusion guys do a great job and it
>> integrates with the fedora repos, many of the people there are also
>> fedora project packagers. Particularly over things like gstreamer
>> where the plugins provided will work with fedora gstreamer directly.
>>
>
> never be able to run yum again?
> I have been running this workaround for close to a year and dnf/yum is still
> fully operational.
> I am merely placing a few library files in my home folder. pray tell, how is
> this going to blow up my system???
>

Not what I said.

> i understand you have nothing against the RPMFusion system and therefore
> there would be absolutely no benefit for you. however the poster whom I
> replied to, like me, had concerns and this is simply my workaround.
>
>

What is your concern about RPMFusion? You seem to imply you have
something against it.

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Re: mpg123 not included, why?

[Ian Malone]

On 11 January 2016 at 16:41, Tim  wrote:
> Allegedly, on or about 11 January 2016, Fernando Cassia sent:
>> Call me old fashioned, but I prefer a static, single binary to perform
>> a simple task like playing a mp3 file - you know, the Unix way, do one
>> thing and do it self-cointained.
>
> There's some logic to that, but all some illogic.  Would you have yet
> another binary program to play wav files, another for oggs, another for
> flac, and have to call the right one for each audio file you want to
> play?  Or would you use the one player for any type of audio file, and
> let it make use of the appropriate codec for the file?
>
> The idea of having a common codec for handling, say mp3 files, has merit
> in itself, along the lines you're promoting for the binary player.  If
> half a dozen programs all use the same codec file, that's more people
> debugging and improving a codec.
>
> Personally, I think that there's far too many different types of media
> file to have a single binary player that handles them all.  There would
> be poorly supported ones that coders didn't really place much priority
> on.  And I certainly wouldn't want to have to use a plethora of
> different binary players for each different audio filetype.

This is sort of what plugin architectures try to do too (like
gstreamer). The trick is having an interface that can handle the
required data while the application is able to look for the presence
of the component it needs for a particular data type. That can be done
with plugins or binaries (see applications like grip which use
separate tools to do encoding). It does take more work, because you
need a framework that can handle that discovery (rather than just
statically link in every needed library, even handing off to the
different demuxing and decoding algorithms is harder than a tool that
works with a single format), and to fill in any gaps in the formats
that are supported through that interface. The result is applications
that use those frameworks end up more complex and have to wait for the
framework to move before they can support new things, while
lightweight tools can move more quickly, but end up becoming
non-lightweight tools in the process. I think this is why new
'minimalist' players appear every so often.

And of course every shiny new video codec starts off supported in one
particular implementation and needs to be taken up by the others (even
before you bring in patent issues).

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Re: Is rfkill new?

[Ian Malone]

On 8 January 2016 at 18:36, Tom Horsley  wrote:
> I've just been getting switched over to fedora 23 from 22, and
> spent a long time figuring out why the heck my wifi dongle
> as access point didn't work any longer.
>
> I finally found log messages about the interface being soft
> blocked by rfkill, which then led me down another rabbit hole
> to figure out what the heck rfkill and soft blocking was about.
>
> Is rfkill completely new in fedora 23, or has it been around
> for a while, but the default recently changed to blocked rather
> than unblocked?
>
> (I do have things working now by adding unblock code to my
> script that starts the access point).

rfkill is just a tool that manipulates the state of the driver for
various radio-type devices (bluetooth, wifi, I think wan) and reports
on power (obviously it can't toggle hardware kill), it doesn't have
it's own default. Not sure why your dongle is defaulting to off, could
be a change in the driver somehow, or whatever tool you use to manage
the connection.

(For a while in Fedora 1x series I had to use rfkill to toggle the
software block on my old iwl3945 card as the driver would get into a
state where it thought hardware kill was on. Eventually even that
stopped working, not sure if there was some problem with the driver,
but towards the end it stopped working in Windows too, so there may
have been some hardware problem involved.)

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partition management in dual-boot laptop / limited space

[Ian Malone]

It's been a while since I touched LVM, I don't use it on my personal
machines since I don't need what it provides and when it was first
introduced in Fedora I found it slowed things down a bit.

Right now I'm changing my laptop to a 250GB SSD (from the 100GB it had
previously). It dual boots and was a little tight for space (since
just getting Win7 installed means about 40GB for the partition).
What's there now is approximately:
- windows c:\ 40GB NTFS
- linux ~30GB ext4, / and /home
- swap 2GB
- /boot 500MB
- shared NTFS remainder (~30GB, no, those don't quite match 100GB total)
* normally on dual boot I put shared data on NTFS, FAT has too many
problems (like file size, naming issues), and I don't really trust
windows not to mess up ext4. There does seem to be a bit of a
performance hit using NTFS from Linux, my desktop has various extra
partitions for different things.

I'm thinking of adding most of the extra space to the shared
partition, but also considering whether it's worth having a separate
/home partition now there's a bit of space for it. But not certain in
advance what the balance of those should be, so it'd be nice to be
able to adjust it after the fact if needed, and I'm wondering what the
most painless way of doing that will be. The nuclear option of course
is take copies of everything, recreate those two partitions and then
copy back on. Is there any less drastic approach?

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Re: partition management in dual-boot laptop / limited space

[Ian Malone]

On 6 January 2016 at 17:01, Patrick O'Callaghan <pocallag...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 2016-01-06 at 13:30 +0000, Ian Malone wrote:
>> Is there any less drastic approach?
>
> You don't really explain your use case. I find it's enough to run the
> occasional Windows session in a VM, but if you depend on high-
> performance 3D graphics (e.g. for gaming) that may not be enough. For
> most everything else it's fine.
>

This is probably better now than it was before, but with a two core
system and not a massive amount of RAM it seems a better use to dual
boot on the laptop (and on my desktop I dual boot because that's
exactly what I use windows for). Allowing access to the shared
partition (music and other data) means I can get at that from both
sides of a dual boot, I can install windows programs there if
necessary to avoid having a large chunk of space stuck in a c:\
partition or VM image. That would be a bit harder from a VM (if
possible at all, not sure filesystem passthrough will work for a
windows client, samba is awful). Also, my windows license is a
hardware one, not for VM. I can only see the windows in a vm helping
in this situation if there's a neat way to give it fairly transparent
access to a filesystem on the host machine.

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Re: OT: On dual boot system - need to expand windoze partition ...

[Ian Malone]

On 6 January 2016 at 17:49, jd1008  wrote:
>
>
> On 01/06/2016 10:32 AM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, 2016-01-06 at 10:16 -0700, jd1008 wrote:
>>>
>>> by catenation to a partition on an external drive.
>>>
>>> I do not want to shrink the fedora partition, but I could
>>> if necessary; in which case does fedora have a partition
>>> resizer?
>>>
>>> I know I can back up the fedora partition, resize it and
>>> and restore from backup. But that could take many hours
>>> of down time. I was wondering if there is a util that
>>> can do it to an unmounted fedora partition.
>>
>> Resizing the partition can be done with gparted, but note that you
>> first have to resize the filesystem within the partition, and how you
>> do that depends on which fs you have as not all of them support
>> reducing the size.
>>
>> poc
>
> The fedora partition is the 2nd partition and sizes are as follows:
>
> $ fdisk -l /dev/sda
> Disk /dev/sda: 931.5 GiB, 1000204886016 bytes, 1953525168 sectors
> Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
> Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 4096 bytes
> I/O size (minimum/optimal): 4096 bytes / 4096 bytes
> Disklabel type: dos
> Disk identifier: 0x0004ccd9
>
> Device Boot  StartEndSectors   Size Id Type
> /dev/sda1  *  2048   84033535   84031488  40.1G  7 HPFS/NTFS/exFAT
> /dev/sda3 84035584 1919970735 1835935152 875.5G 83 Linux
> /dev/sda4   1919970736 1953525167   3355443216G 82 Linux swap /
> Solaris
>
> I want to move sda3 start position some 32GB to the right, thus shrinking it
> by 32GB.
> sda3 is the fedora boot partition and formatted and mounted as ext4.
>
> P.S: Notice that sda2 is missing - because it was a tiny remnant partition
> of windows
> restoration utils (about 100 meg), which had proved to be useless to me,
> since I use backup
> and restore which completely obviated those tools. So, I expanded windows
> partition into what was
> sda2. Of course, I had first deleted sda2 in order to use windows storage
> gui to expand
> C: drive into the space that was sda2.
> But still, windoze needs a little more room, as it is running out of swap
> area.

I think gparted should be able to do this for you, first move the
start of the linux partition and filesystem towards the end of the
disc (you'll have to shrink that filesystem, also done in gparted) and
then move it to create free space next to windows. Moving the start of
a filesystem is more risky than simply shrinking or growing it and
could take a while, you definitely want to have a backup. I'd opt to
use windows tools to do the ntfs growing afterwards (since it's
windows's filesystem). If your linux /boot is on sda3 you may need to
reinstall grub after the move too, so make sure you know how to do
that.

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Re: partition management in dual-boot laptop / limited space

[Ian Malone]

On 6 January 2016 at 18:33, Rick Stevens <ri...@alldigital.com> wrote:
> On 01/06/2016 10:23 AM, Ian Malone wrote:
>>
>> On 6 January 2016 at 17:01, Patrick O'Callaghan <pocallag...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Wed, 2016-01-06 at 13:30 +, Ian Malone wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Is there any less drastic approach?
>>>
>>>
>>> You don't really explain your use case. I find it's enough to run the
>>> occasional Windows session in a VM, but if you depend on high-
>>> performance 3D graphics (e.g. for gaming) that may not be enough. For
>>> most everything else it's fine.
>>>
>>
>> This is probably better now than it was before, but with a two core
>> system and not a massive amount of RAM it seems a better use to dual
>> boot on the laptop (and on my desktop I dual boot because that's
>> exactly what I use windows for). Allowing access to the shared
>> partition (music and other data) means I can get at that from both
>> sides of a dual boot, I can install windows programs there if
>> necessary to avoid having a large chunk of space stuck in a c:\
>> partition or VM image. That would be a bit harder from a VM (if
>> possible at all, not sure filesystem passthrough will work for a
>> windows client, samba is awful). Also, my windows license is a
>> hardware one, not for VM. I can only see the windows in a vm helping
>> in this situation if there's a neat way to give it fairly transparent
>> access to a filesystem on the host machine.
>
>
> Referring to your original post, I don't really see a huge benefit to
> having separate / and /home partitions unless you're planning to do
> partition-based backups and restores. Back in the day when we backed up
> to tape and such with limited capacities, it made sense. Now that
> external hard drives are so prevalent and cost-effective, it doesn't
> track as well.

The thing I've found it most useful for is to keep data through a new
Fedora install.

>
> As to LVM, I like it from the standpoint that it is fairly easy to
> move things around if you want, and should you run out of space on
> your disk, you can add a second drive, make a PV out of it, add it to
> the VG your current LV is on, then grow your LV onto the new disk and
> expand the filesystem. For the vast majority of people, using LVM is
> really is somewhat "six of one, half dozen of the other". For people
> like me who do a lot of development or whose datasets are big (and my
> datasets just keep growing!), LVM (and the minor amount of care and
> feeding it requires) works well.

Yes, at work we use LVM to keep biggish datasets on, where it works
well because we don't always know how big they're going to get. Not
sure it will help here though, seems windows cannot see LVM
partitions.

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Re: OT: On dual boot system - need to expand windoze partition ...

[Ian Malone]

On 6 January 2016 at 23:54, Patrick O'Callaghan <pocallag...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 2016-01-06 at 18:44 +0000, Ian Malone wrote:
>> I think gparted should be able to do this for you, first move the
>> start of the linux partition and filesystem towards the end of the
>> disc (you'll have to shrink that filesystem, also done in gparted)
>> and then move it to create free space next to windows.
>
> Yes, I see gparted that it can manipulate the fs as well, so resize2fs
> isn't needed.
>

Actually, so far as I know, gparted will use resize2fs, it just
manages the trickier aspects of doing so (and takes care of the
partitioning too).

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Re: partition management in dual-boot laptop / limited space

[Ian Malone]

On 6 January 2016 at 22:14, Chris Murphy  wrote:
> You could use LVM thin p for / and /home.
>
> The advantage is LV sizes are virtual, and can be larger than the VG. So
> it's an on demand pool of extents, assigned when needed by whichever LV.
>
> The installer won't let you over commit though. So what you do is create
> only / and set that volume size to a practical max. Post install create a
> new LV for /home and make it also a practical max size. The combined root
> and home can exceed the space in the VG.
>
> The gotcha is if the actual combined used space in those two for systems
> exceeds the pool size. That'll break things.
>
> But in the meantime it obviates filesystem resize. If you set to a practical
> max you won't need to grow an fs. And if you want to shrink, just use fstrim
> and unused extents will be returned to the pool. It's actually a lot more
> efficient and safe than fs resize.

Thanks, that would be a nice solution if I could get it to play well
with NTFS, on the other hand might be combined with the VBox shared
folders Jon mentioned. Have always been a bit wary of
over-provisioning for the reason you mention, but in my experience the
/ size is fairly stable once you've got the system set up as needed.
(Still a few problems running a virtual machine for windows in this
particular case of course, but I'm also interested in knowing what
things are possible.)

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Re: partition management in dual-boot laptop / limited space

[Ian Malone]

On 6 January 2016 at 23:56, Sylvia Sánchez  wrote:
> First, I strongly recommend to put /home in a separated partition. It
> will save you time any time you make a fresh install.

Yes, it's how I've got my desktop set up, previously my laptop didn't
have enough space to make that practical. Though USB sticks with
impressive capacity are now cheap enough that you can just take a copy
of /home and restore it afterwards.

> Second, may I ask what use you give to your Windows? I mean, why you
> keep a dual boot?
>

Stuff. I like having tools around (which is why I usually run
Linux...). Desktop, gaming and any streaming that doesn't work on
Linux (there's only so much messing about with pipelight and making
quesitonable SELinux changes I'll put up with), occasionally bits of
audio software. Laptop similar, less often gaming, VM is maybe
becoming more of a realistic option for what I use it for, but I don't
find a dual boot much different in convenience (and of course there
can be license issues) in exchange for being able to run on full
hardware.

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Re: partition management in dual-boot laptop / limited space

[Ian Malone]

On 6 January 2016 at 20:14, Jon LaBadie <jo...@jgcomp.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 06, 2016 at 06:23:55PM +0000, Ian Malone wrote:

>> I can only see the windows in a vm helping
>> in this situation if there's a neat way to give it fairly transparent
>> access to a filesystem on the host machine.
>
> To the latter point, I run Windows 8.1 as a VirtualBox VM under F22.
> The space for all my VM's is in a single LV with a ext4 filesystem.
> It can be resized as needed.
>
> I don't know about other virtual environments, but under VBox, access
> to the Linux data is simple, called shared folders.  Normally I make
> my F22 home dir available as a share (e: drive).  This is one directory
> tree on an ext4 fs in an LV.
>
> To try other combos today I shared /usr/local, the root of an ext4
> fs again in an LV.  I also shared /tmp, a memory based tempfs.
> Again, a simple "fill out a gui form of 5 items".
>

That sounds quite nice, I've only briefly used VirtualBox in the past,
will have to give it another look. Could actually be useful for some
other projects too.

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Re: The continuous crippling of Fedora LiveCDs by removing usefull stuff for no apparent reason

[Ian Malone]

On 21 December 2015 at 01:17, Chris Murphy <li...@colorremedies.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Dec 20, 2015 at 3:31 PM, Fernando Cassia <fcas...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Sun, Dec 20, 2015 at 6:35 AM, Ian Malone <ibmal...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> It's neither of these,
>>>
>>> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_create_and_use_Live_USB#Data_persistence
>>>
>>> 'currently implemented (as a Device-mapper copy-on-write snapshot),
>>> every single change to it (writes AND deletes) subtracts from its free
>>> space, so it will eventually be "used up"'
>>
>>
>> It confirms what I said: it's broken.
>
> It's not broken. It's working as designed and documented. From
> livecd-iso-to-disk --help
>
> *Note well* that
> deletion of any original files in the read-only root filesystem does 
> not
> recover any storage space on your LiveOS device.  Storage in the
> persistent /LiveOS/overlay- file is allocated as needed, 
> but
> the system will crash *without warning* and fail to boot once the
> overlay has been totally consumed.  If significant changes or updates
> to the root filesystem are to be made, carefully watch the fraction of
> space allocated in the overlay by issuing the 'dmsetup status' command
> at a command line of the running LiveOS image.  Some consumption of 
> root
> filesystem and overlay space can be avoided by specifying a persistent
> home filesystem for user files, see --home-size-mb below.
>
>
>> How about changing the LiveCD creator
>> to allow for "persistent storage" partition that is formatted with F2FS?
>
> Someone needs to volunteer to do the research why that's a better
> option, and include some patches and kickstart scripts so that others
> can test. F2FS does not produce better results just by using it. It's
> highly customizeable/tunable, and it assumes you know things about
> your flash based drive that it can't know (because manufacturer's hide
> this information) so you can tune it. If you don't tune it, you can
> get worse results than just using ext4/XFS/Btrfs or heck even FAT or
> NTFS because the FTL in especially USB flash storage is very well
> tuned for FAT.
>

More than that, the live images are built on squashfs as a compressed
filesystem (would direct Fernando to
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SquashFS), which is where the
requirement to use an overlay to allow persistent storage on root
comes from. There is the option (as I mentioned, removed from the
quote of course) to use a persistent storage image on a normal
filesystem alongside it for home (and whether this is ext4 or f2fs has
nothing to do with the price of fish), but that cannot be done for the
squashfs. So far as I know, you would need to rebuild the image when
creating the live device to allow changing the root filesystem.

If you want a live image with certain packages installed it's not too
hard to roll your own, just create a kickstart file that includes
whatever base kickstart you want and add packages.

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Re: The continuous crippling of Fedora LiveCDs by removing usefull stuff for no apparent reason

[Ian Malone]

On 19 December 2015 at 05:39, Tim  wrote:
> Allegedly, on or about 18 December 2015, Fernando Cassia sent:
>> Thanks for the reply. I choose to stop using so-called "persistent
>> storage" because it eventually goes FUBAR. Something about the loop
>> device if I remember correctly. The issue being that all is well until
>> you fill up all available storage space. Then the "persistent storage"
>> partition becomes "damaged" and unmountable. I lost quite a few
>> folders full of work that way, that's when I decided that was useless.
>
> That sounds like a problem I had on my old Amiga, more than a decade
> ago, where due to some programmer's maths errors, it'd try to fill a
> disc to 101% capacity.
>
> Though, in this case, I suspect it's more to do with flash drives losing
> capacity, over time, as it wears out, and no file system being developed
> in mind of this (so that a reasonable large amount of space is always
> required to be kept free).

It's neither of these,
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_create_and_use_Live_USB#Data_persistence

'currently implemented (as a Device-mapper copy-on-write snapshot),
every single change to it (writes AND deletes) subtracts from its free
space, so it will eventually be "used up"'

This is not the same as choosing to create a live image with an
accompanying filesystem on a USB key, where the extra mounted
filesystem is an ext4 or similar. But system files in a live image are
located in the squashfs and are subject to the overlay limits.

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Re: Why was YUM removed

[Ian Malone]

On 10 December 2015 at 14:44, Ian Malone <ibmal...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 10 December 2015 at 11:51, Tim <ignored_mail...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
>> Allegedly, on or about 09 December 2015, Ralf Corsepius sent:
>>> My view: The only thing that was wrong with yum, was it being
>>> work-in-progress, when its maintainer passed away.
>>
>> One hopes that something as central as the updating/installing tool
>> would be (a) worked on by more than one person, and (b) sufficiently
>> documented that the project could be taken over.
>>
>> My second point seems to be seriously lacking on Fedora.  While I can't
>> personally speak to documentation regarding software coding, the
>> documentation for operating some software is sorely lacking.  There are
>> some distros where good documentation is a prerequisite to software
>> being accepted.
>>
>
> Was that not the case for YUM? It was worked on by more than one
> person and while I don't know what the developer documentation for it
> is like the end user documentation had been around for a long time.
> The case, at least as Ralf put it, is that with the lead developer's
> (tragic) death the people working on it decided to build something
> else instead.
>

Though the chronology of that is wrong, because FESCO approved DNF in
2012, when it was already being suggested as a YUM replacement.

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Re: Why was YUM removed

[Ian Malone]

On 10 December 2015 at 11:51, Tim  wrote:
> Allegedly, on or about 09 December 2015, Ralf Corsepius sent:
>> My view: The only thing that was wrong with yum, was it being
>> work-in-progress, when its maintainer passed away.
>
> One hopes that something as central as the updating/installing tool
> would be (a) worked on by more than one person, and (b) sufficiently
> documented that the project could be taken over.
>
> My second point seems to be seriously lacking on Fedora.  While I can't
> personally speak to documentation regarding software coding, the
> documentation for operating some software is sorely lacking.  There are
> some distros where good documentation is a prerequisite to software
> being accepted.
>

Was that not the case for YUM? It was worked on by more than one
person and while I don't know what the developer documentation for it
is like the end user documentation had been around for a long time.
The case, at least as Ralf put it, is that with the lead developer's
(tragic) death the people working on it decided to build something
else instead.

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Re: It's 2015, and OOM handling still sucks

[Ian Malone]

On 1 December 2015 at 18:47, Neal Becker <ndbeck...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ian Malone wrote:
>
>> On 1 December 2015 at 15:19, Neal Becker <ndbeck...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I have a pretty nice workstation, with 8 cores and 32G RAM.
>>>
>>> A stupid little python program just killed it by consuming all the
>>> memory, driving it into swapping hell.
>>>
>>> I couldn't even ssh into it - I started up ssh and went for coffee.  On
>>> return I still didn't have a prompt.  Had to power cycle it.
>>>

>> Maybe one for the devel list where they can do something about it. I
>> haven't actually checked what the current Fedora policies are, since
>> at work I use RHEL. I'd have thought the oom killer would get this.
>> Really taking out all the memory with no swap available seems more
>> likely to kill a system, possibly memory use can expand too fast, but
>> on systems with some swap I've rarely seen things get to the point you
>> can't get a virtual terminal up.

> cat /proc/meminfo


Well, first time for everything. Can you share what the program was?
There are examples on stackoverflow which intentionally do this kind
of thing, but doing it without meaning to is impressive. For my own
interest, is your swap on SSD?

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Re: Appending the file modified date to the file name

[Ian Malone]

On 1 December 2015 at 02:30, Gordon Messmer  wrote:
> On 11/30/2015 04:49 PM, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
>>>
>>> You could:
>>>  mv "$file" "$file-$(stat -c %y "$file")"
>>
>>
>> Not quite as the script:
>>
>> #!/bin/bash
>> for i in `seq 20 42`;
>>  do
>>  file="Voice "0${i}.m4a
>>  mv $file "$file-$(stat -c %y "$file")"
>>  done
>>
>> is producing:
>>
>> mv: target ‘Voice 036.m4a-2015-05-07 06:51:59.0 -0400’ is not a
>> directory
>
>
> That's why I quoted "$file" in both instances.
>
> Your file name has a space in it, so the command you ran is:
>
> "mv" "Voice" "036.m4a" "Voice 036.m4a-2015-05-07 06:51:59.0 -0400"
>
> And since "mv" got 3 arguments, it requires that the last one is a
> directory.
>
> If you had quoted "$file" after mv, it should have worked properly.
>

Though in general try to avoid adding whitespace when automatically
naming files, it's just a pain. (This doesn't mean you don't need to
be careful about your source files having whitespace, but no need to
inflict more on yourself.)

E.g. ISO time without white space:
date -d "$(stat -c %y "$file")" +"%Y-%m-%dT%H:%M:%S%z"

Substituting spaces in the target name:
echo "$outfile" | tr " " "-"

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Re: It's 2015, and OOM handling still sucks

[Ian Malone]

On 1 December 2015 at 15:19, Neal Becker  wrote:
> I have a pretty nice workstation, with 8 cores and 32G RAM.
>
> A stupid little python program just killed it by consuming all the memory,
> driving it into swapping hell.
>
> I couldn't even ssh into it - I started up ssh and went for coffee.  On
> return I still didn't have a prompt.  Had to power cycle it.
>
> This is F23, everything is setup default regarding kernel memory policies,
> etc.
>
> So, can we configure things to give a better experience?  Can we make this
> default?
>

Maybe one for the devel list where they can do something about it. I
haven't actually checked what the current Fedora policies are, since
at work I use RHEL. I'd have thought the oom killer would get this.
Really taking out all the memory with no swap available seems more
likely to kill a system, possibly memory use can expand too fast, but
on systems with some swap I've rarely seen things get to the point you
can't get a virtual terminal up.

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Re: F22 kernel 4.2.6 - No sound cards

[Ian Malone]

On 23 November 2015 at 03:28, Richard Shaw  wrote:
> Thanks for the quick feedback! I may try that if needed but so far going
> back to the previous kernel has fixed the problem and I don't reboot
> frequently on that machine.
>

If you can confirm that it doesn't work booting into the newer kernel
and does booting into the older one then it's worth reporting as a
bug. Otherwise it may be a regression that will be stuck in all new
kernels till someone notices.


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Re: alternative to Rhythmbox

[Ian Malone]

On 9 November 2015 at 16:02, Sylvia Sánchez  wrote:
> Did you try Parole? It's a very nice player.
> Or Amarok. It's a bit too much for me, but maybe it's what you're looking for.
>
>

A quite like amarok, it is of course a KDE program, some people seem
to object to using things from "the other side". Audacious is another
good one, with a more lightweight philosophy and in the winamp lineage
of players (design-wise, not code-wise).

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Re: alternative to Rhythmbox

[Ian Malone]

On 20 November 2015 at 17:15, Patrick O'Callaghan  wrote:
> On Fri, 2015-11-20 at 11:32 -0500, Erick Ocrospoma wrote:
>> VLC if you only want to listen or watch your favourite media
>> smoothly.
>
> I have nothing against VLC but if you just want to play videos a good
> alternative is mpv.
>
>> Songbird, if you like to organize your library, and a good-looking
>> tool (looks like iTunes, in some way).
>
> Not in the official repos, and appears to have been discontinued
> (according to Wikipedia).
>

Nightingale was forked from songbird http://getnightingale.com/ I was
a very keen songbird user at one point, but stopped using it when they
discontinued linux support. Don't think it really lived up to its
promise in the end (some potential for nice playlist support, this was
also when I was more involved in music metadata which is something
songbird could have done well).

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Re: Get iso 23

[Ian Malone]

On 18 November 2015 at 11:40, Andreas M. Kirchwitz  wrote:
> Patrick Dupre  wrote:
>
>> Now, I am really confuse!
>
> Sorry.
>
>> What is the combined Workstation & Live ISO?
>> I can get: Fedora-Server-DVD-x86_64-23.iso
>> and
>> Fedora-Live-Workstation-i686-23-10.iso
>> Not a "combined" one.
>
> As you may guess from the name, "Fedora-Live-Workstation-i686-23-10.iso"
> is the combined image (sorry, if the word "combined" was confusing you).
>
> This ISO features the "Fedora Live system" (run Fedora directly from DVD
> in memory without any installation) and "Fedora Workstation installation"
> (install Fedora Workstation edition to harddisk) on one ISO image.
>
> "Fedora-Live-Workstation-i686-23-10.iso" combines "Live" and "Workstation"
> in one single ISO image.
>
> Most users prefer this "Fedora-Live-Workstation-i686-23-10.iso".
> It installs a basic Fedora setup (including GUI) pretty fast.
> After installation this can be configured in any way you like.
>

It installs the "Workstation" product with that project's particular
(gnome-centric) configurations. As an ISO it doesn't contain the same
selection of packages that the "Server" image does. Other spins can be
found at https://spins.fedoraproject.org/ almost all are live images,
not all are based on Workstation.

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Re: Get iso 23

[Ian Malone]

On 15 November 2015 at 14:58, Andreas M. Kirchwitz  wrote:
> Patrick Dupre  wrote:
>
>>> > How can I get an iso image for fedora 23 (workstation) ?
>>>
>>> https://getfedora.org/en/workstation/download/
>> There is only the Live version not the DVD iso.
>
> The Fedora Workstation Live image is a combined ISO image for both,
> either running Fedora Live (directly from DVD/USB) or install the
> Fedora Workstation edition (from the same DVD/USB).
>
> This is different from the Server ISO image which is only for
> installation but not for so-called live usage.
>
> Unfortunately, both ISO image work somewhat different. For example,
> the Workstation/Live image does not support mdraid devices or
> encrypted volumes. Only the Server image does. However, the Server
> image does not allow to install the Workstation edition from local
> resources (only via network).
>
> IMHO, the functionality has been split up in a confusing way.
> There should be a "Live" ISO image for live usage and there should
> be an "Installation" ISO image that combines Server and Workstation
> editions (still fits perfectly fine on a single DVD, even on a small
> 4 GB USB stick).
>

Difficult, the different products have their own particular
customisations to the setup you get, it's no longer just a question of
what packages there are. See e.g.
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Workstation_Disable_Firewall

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Re: An interesting sort problem

[Ian Malone]

On 13 November 2015 at 16:54, jd1008  wrote:
>
>
> On 11/12/2015 07:38 PM, Michael Hennebry wrote:
>>
>> Awk can do what you want:
>> {
>> lines[NR]=$NF " " $0
>> }
>>
>> END {
>> PROCINFO["sorted_in"]="@val_type_asc"
>> for line in lines {
>> j=index(line, " ")
>> print substr(line, j+1)
>> }
>>
> Sorry, but, since this is being archived,
> could you please dot the i's and cross the t's ?
>
> I assume $0 is the name of the file ??
> Where is BEGIN?
>
> Why are the single quote marks missing?
>
> As you script stands, it is full of syntax errors.
>

No missing quotes. It's an awk program, not a bash one, $0 is a bash
variable. The only syntax errors I see are no brackets around the for
statement and missing closing brace. My awk here is too old to support
PROCINFO["sorted_in"], so here's a slight tweak using asort:

awktest:

{
lines[NR]=$NF " " $0
}

END {
#PROCINFO["sorted_in"]="@val_type_asc"
asort(lines, ordered)
for (ind = 1 ; ind<=length(ordered) ; ind++) {
   line=ordered[ind]
   j=index(line, " ")
   print substr(line, j+1)
}
}


awktestinput:

Friday Lemon abc xyz
Saturday cucumber cool
Sunday orange citrussy
Monday apple computer


$ awk -f awktest  < awktestinput
Sunday orange citrussy
Monday apple computer
Saturday cucumber cool
Friday Lemon abc xyz


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Re: An interesting sort problem

[Ian Malone]

On 13 November 2015 at 18:32, Ian Malone <ibmal...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 13 November 2015 at 16:54, jd1008 <jd1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 11/12/2015 07:38 PM, Michael Hennebry wrote:
>>>
>>> Awk can do what you want:
>>> {
>>> lines[NR]=$NF " " $0
>>> }

>
> No missing quotes. It's an awk program, not a bash one, $0 is a bash
> variable.

Apparently my brain and my typing move at different speeds, "$0" here
is an *awk* variable, as poc also points out.

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Re: Fedora 22 and 23 don't (fully) recognize Canon camera; Fedora 20 and 21 did

[Ian Malone]

On 11 November 2015 at 17:19, George Avrunin  wrote:
> I have a Canon EOS SL1 camera (also known as an EOS 100D).  With Fedora
> 20 and 21, when I connected the camera to a USB port, it was recognized and
> the KDE device notifier would ask whether I wanted to open it with the
> file manager or download photos with digikam.  Digikam also recognized the
> camera when it was connected.  The camera is supported by libghoto2 and
> uses the PTP protocol.
>
> But with Fedora 22 and 23, the camera is not fully recognized and I can't
> download photos directly from the camera.  (I can use a card reader, of
> course.)  In /var/log/messages, I see the following:
>
> Nov 11 11:17:01 g kernel: usb 4-1.4.1: new high-speed USB device number 9
> using ehci-pci Nov 11 11:17:02 g kernel: usb 4-1.4.1: New USB device
> found, idVendor=04a9, idProduct=3270
> Nov 11 11:17:02 g kernel: usb
> 4-1.4.1: New USB device strings: Mfr=1, Product=2, SerialNumber=0 Nov 11
> 11:17:02 g kernel: usb 4-1.4.1: Product: Canon Digital Camera
> Nov 11 11:17:02 g kernel: usb 4-1.4.1: Manufacturer: Canon Inc.
> Nov 11 11:17:02 g mtp-probe: checking bus 4, device 9:
> "/sys/devices/pci:00/:00:1d.0/usb4/4-1/4-1.4/4-1.4.1"
> Nov 11 11:17:02 g mtp-probe: bus: 4, device: 9 was not an MTP device
>
> The device notifier doesn't notice the camera (it says "no devices
> available) and digikam can't see it. I've tried other cables and usb
> ports (and even another computer). I use KDE, but this doesn't look like
> it's a KDE issue.
>
> The only other camera with a usb connection thta I have at hand right now
> is an old Canon Powershot G9, which gets similar messages about not being
> an MTP device (but /var/log/messages shows a serial number for the camera).
> This also worked with earlier Fedoras.
>
> I'm not sure what changed from F21 to F22.  I was hoping that things would
> work again with F23. Any suggestions?   I don't understand udev very
> well...
>
>

I've also got a Canon not showing up, putting camera:// into the
dolphin address bar while it's connected works and I haven't got
around to finding out why it's doing this.

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Re: Fedora 22 and 23 don't (fully) recognize Canon camera; Fedora 20 and 21 did

[Ian Malone]

On 11 November 2015 at 17:49, George Avrunin <avru...@math.umass.edu> wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Nov 2015 17:31:54 +0000, Ian Malone wrote:
>
>> I've also got a Canon not showing up, putting camera:// into the
>> dolphin address bar while it's connected works and I haven't got
>> around to finding out why it's doing this.
>
> Thanks, Ian.  Just "camera://"?  I tried that just now; when I hit enter,
> I got a big red bar with "Invalid protocol".
>
> But I don't use dolphin in general (or any graphical file manager), so I
> could well be doing something wrong.
>

Just tried it and looks like it should be "camera:/" but "camera://"
would also get corrected t a single /.

This is what I see on F22 in /var/log/messages:
Nov 11 21:42:13 atlas kernel: usb 4-6.3: new high-speed USB device
number 4 using ehci-pci
Nov 11 21:42:13 atlas kernel: usb 4-6.3: New USB device found,
idVendor=04b0, idProduct=0221
Nov 11 21:42:13 atlas kernel: usb 4-6.3: New USB device strings:
Mfr=1, Product=2, SerialNumber=3
Nov 11 21:42:13 atlas kernel: usb 4-6.3: Product: NIKON DSC COOLPIX P300-PTP
Nov 11 21:42:13 atlas kernel: usb 4-6.3: Manufacturer: NIKON
Nov 11 21:42:13 atlas kernel: usb 4-6.3: SerialNumber: 40033678
Nov 11 21:42:13 atlas mtp-probe: checking bus 4, device 4:
"/sys/devices/pci:00/:00:13.2/usb4/4-6/4-6.3"
Nov 11 21:42:13 atlas mtp-probe: bus: 4, device: 4 was not an MTP device

So something different going on. Maybe try
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dolphin/+bug/1256591/comments/30
and also the kio client command from
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dolphin/+bug/1256591/comments/61

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Re: Detecting empty office doc containing virus macro

[Ian Malone]

On 28 October 2015 at 11:56, Gary Stainburn
 wrote:
> We are receiving LOTS of emails that contain empty XLS or DOC documents with
> embedded virus macros.  These are getting past SPAMASSASSIN, Clamav and
> Kaspersky.
>
> I'm trying to write a filter for EXIM to block these emails but I need to know
> a good, quick, command-line to detect an empty doc with a macro.
>
> Is there anything available that I can use??
>
> I have managed to write a PERL script to detect empty xls xlsx, doc and docx
> files but I cannot detect whether they have any macros embedded
>

Don't know how to answer your question, but if you know how to detect
empty documents then why not just assume they're malicious? Don't
think there's any common reason to send empty documents around.

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Re: YouTube videos in full-screen mode block Firefox

[Ian Malone]

On 8 October 2015 at 20:49, Joe Zeff  wrote:
> On 10/08/2015 12:30 PM, Fred Smith wrote:
>>
>> Gee, I get nervous when I have a dozen tabs open... :)
>
>
> I don't think I've ever had as many as half that open at once; can't see the
> point, either.
>

I currently have 7. Admittedly two are blank right now. One is playing
radio, one is displaying a standard operating procedure, another is a
website used for that SOP, yet another (which I could probably close
now) is a data repository and the final one is this email. The day is
still fairly early. If I'm researching a topic I may have six or more
open just for that, a page of search results and five or so pages at
any one time which might be relevant.


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Re: PCI-e SSD recommendation for a F22 machine

[Ian Malone]

On 2 September 2015 at 21:45, Ranjan Maitra
 wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I was wondering if it is possible to use a PCI-e SSD for the root and swap 
> partitions of a workstation running F22. I am thinking of installing F22 and 
> my swap here -- the machine has 64GB memory. So I am considering getting a 
> 128 GB PCI-e SSD, and leaving 96 GB for swap and 32 GB for /. /home will be 
> on a different SATA HDD.
>
> Do you have any suggestions and recommendations for a 128 GB PCI-e SSD?
>

Well, since you've had no more useful answers than I can give, 32GB is
just about enough for /. (I've squeezed home and / into that on my
laptop, but need to keep an eye on space). It should work provided the
motherboard supports it and there are modules in fedora for it
https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/3goigc/anyone_here_running_fedora_22_with_an_nvme_boot/

Out of curiosity, what are you doing that needs that much memory? I
was going to say with 64GB you probably don't need swap until I saw
how much you were planning to allocate...

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Re: PCI-e SSD recommendation for a F22 machine

[Ian Malone]

On 4 September 2015 at 13:50, Ranjan Maitra
<maitra.mbox.igno...@inbox.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Fri, 4 Sep 2015 10:33:16 +0100 Ian Malone <ibmal...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2 September 2015 at 21:45, Ranjan Maitra
>> <maitra.mbox.igno...@inbox.com> wrote:
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > I was wondering if it is possible to use a PCI-e SSD for the root and swap 
>> > partitions of a workstation running F22. I am thinking of installing F22 
>> > and my swap here -- the machine has 64GB memory. So I am considering 
>> > getting a 128 GB PCI-e SSD, and leaving 96 GB for swap and 32 GB for /. 
>> > /home will be on a different SATA HDD.
>> >
>> > Do you have any suggestions and recommendations for a 128 GB PCI-e SSD?
>> >
>>
>> Well, since you've had no more useful answers than I can give, 32GB is
>> just about enough for /. (I've squeezed home and / into that on my
>> laptop, but need to keep an eye on space). It should work provided the
>> motherboard supports it and there are modules in fedora for it
>> https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/3goigc/anyone_here_running_fedora_22_with_an_nvme_boot/
>
> Thanks. Given Fedora mailing list's sudden general lack of activity from 
> around the same time I posted, I was wondering if something had happened to 
> the ML server.
>
> Thank you for the pointer to that webpage.
>
> There are PCI-e SSD slots on the machine, so I will take a look at the 
> motherboard.
>
> Funny, I was looking at a 128 GB Samsung PCI-e SSD referred to in the article 
> -- gLad to know that it works.
>
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820147431_re=pci_ssd-_-20-147-431-_-Product
>
>> Out of curiosity, what are you doing that needs that much memory? I
>> was going to say with 64GB you probably don't need swap until I saw
>> how much you were planning to allocate...
>
> I do a lot of computing with my computers. Some of the alternative methods 
> that I may replace requires a lot of memory. I belong to the old school where 
> swap mattered a great deal, and so it was recommended to put 2x memory in 
> there. But I am not sure if that is needed to be 2x as much anymore, This is 
> the first time I will go down to 1.5x, thought 1x may well be adequate.
>

I can think of some things that would run into that kind of memory,
but not many for normal desktop or office use. (My own area is medical
imaging where what we're doing is often 1-2GB per core, though for
some things like statistical analysis you need RAM to load all the
data into memory, then depending on sample size you could get into 10s
GB). Databases and other high end stuff like video editing also eat
RAM, but I think the 2x recommendation is probably outdated for most
cases now. We typically run machines with only a quarter the swap that
they have in RAM, because running into swap on disc is a serious
slowdown anyway, but don't eliminate it altogether as it provides a
softer landing when you run out of RAM, a system running out of memory
when swapping seems to have time to auto kill processes, while one
with no swap more often just sticks hard.

The other place lots of RAM helps is disc caching, which is of course
not helped by swap and less of a benefit if using SSD.

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Re: Aaugh! Sound devices changed again!

[Ian Malone]

On 2 September 2015 at 12:27, Tom Horsley  wrote:
> Every single fedora release, and sometimes even just from
> an update where there wasn't a full release, the sound
> devices get renumbered or renamed. The last time I
> tried to play a movie and send the sound to the optical
> output connected to my receiver, this worked:
>
> pacmd set-card-profile 1 off
> mplayer -vo gl_nosw -ao alsa:device=hw=1.1 -ac hwdts,hwac3, -monitoraspect 
> 16:9 -fs "$@"
>
> I tried it last night for the first time in a while, and
> it doesn't work. I've had to fiddle this script over and
> over again every time sound devices change.
>
> When are we going to get immutable names for sound devices?
> If they can do it for ethernet ports, surely they can
> do it for sound cards, right? (Though come to think of it
> the "immutable" ethernet port names change in every release
> as well :-).
>

cat /proc/asound/cards
 0 [PCH]: HDA-Intel - HDA Intel PCH
  HDA Intel PCH at 0xf642 irq 82
 1 [NVidia ]: HDA-Intel - HDA NVidia
  HDA NVidia at 0xf608 irq 36

The text in [] can be used as an alsa device name. You can still add
the "," for sub devices.

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Re: pdftk

[Ian Malone]

On 1 September 2015 at 12:54, Patrick Dupre  wrote:
> Hello,
>
> What is the future of pdftk as part of fedora?
> It did not find any good alternative.
>
> Thank.

Not sure, maybe a question for the developers list. itext (I'm
assuming it's the same itext), appears to be back:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/pkgdb/package/itext/

Previously there was a problem with itext licensing, then by the time
that was sorted itext required gcj, which had gone. Would be nice to
see pdftk return.

There does appear to be pypdf2 which provides a pdfcat, there was some
interesting in packaging this earlier this year
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/users/2015-January/457318.html

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Re: This is what I was talking about

[Ian Malone]

On 21 August 2015 at 01:18, Martin Cigorraga martincigorr...@gmail.com wrote:
 What!?
 Is this a part of another thread or what?


It's part of a thread that was posted here by mistake and rightly died
about two weeks ago.

 On Thu, Aug 20, 2015 at 8:38 PM Sylvia Sánchez lailah...@gmail.com wrote:

 Because every one of them are pulling the rope in the direction of its
 own way and benefit.


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Re: LINUX is full of music: K3b identifies kernel images in /boot as audio files :-)

[Ian Malone]

On 1 August 2015 at 10:47, Joachim Backes joachim.bac...@rhrk.uni-kl.de wrote:
 Hi all,

 seems, LINUX is full of sound: Trying to write /boot/vmlinuz... to a
 data CD with k3b. If I drag such a file to the Data Project subwindow
 of k3b, it is identified as audio file, and the CD burning is rejected.
 Same with files like initramfs...

 This happens at least with k3b-2.0.3-3.fc22.x86_64.


That sounds very odd. K3B will burn an audio file to a data CD no
problem. Are you sure you're not trying to create an audio cd?

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Re: How do you store a Live Feed from a guitar

[Ian Malone]

On 1 July 2015 at 10:11, Bob Goodwin - Zuni, Virginia, USA
bobgood...@wildblue.net wrote:


 On 01/07/15 00:08, Doug wrote:

 Any suggestions

 Greg Ennis

 I have seen ads for a setup that will record vinyl records from a
 turntable
 onto a PC thru a gizmo plugged into the USB port. If you were to find any
 of the software that works with this, it may work with your guitar also.
 You might need some sort of preamp between the guitar and the usb device,
 but if it wants to work, you should hear _something_.

 --doug



 How about Audacity? I've used it to record voice announcements. It may look
 like overkill at first but you can do a lot with it, it's an audio editor.


Yes, audacity should work for basic recording (assuming that when Greg
says but was not able to get any software that that was on my F22
machine to recognize the the live feed he just means he couldn't find
software to do it, not that the USB capture device isn't working).

For more complicated work a DAW like Ardour (available in the repos)
will let you record different layers and samples, but you'll have to
use Jack. That will also let you do things like add effects and other
stuff like drum machines (e.g. Hydrogen). You may want to check out
these which I wrote a while back:
Jacking in section of
http://epenguin.imalone.co.uk/2012/04/breaking-in-fender-mustang.html
http://epenguin.imalone.co.uk/2011/10/jack-for-audio-passthrough-on-fedora-15.html
http://epenguin.imalone.co.uk/2011/12/re-amping-with-guitarix-and-ardour.html

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Re: Awk and sort (of text files)

[Ian Malone]

On 29 June 2015 at 02:38, jd1008 jd1...@gmail.com wrote:


 On 06/28/2015 07:02 PM, Stephen Davies wrote:


 On 29/06/15 10:13, jd1008 wrote:



 On 06/28/2015 06:38 PM, jd1008 wrote:

 Hi,
 I have text files made of paragraphs of text, separated by
 blank lines.

 Each paragraph is information about a different item.

 In need to sort these paragraphs based on the first line
 of each paragraph.

 Need some hints how to accomplish this.

 Thanx.

 Forgot to say that each paragraph is made of multiple lines,
 but a paragraph's lines do not contain a blank line.

 I would just concatenate lines until the blank is reached then write out
 the concatenated line.
 The result can then be sorted.

 If you want to revert the result to paragraphs, just reverse the process
 outputting lines of up to N characters ending in a space.

 HTH,
 Stephen

 Too much work to break the one line back into multiple lines because the
 lines are of different lengths.
 Too many files also. Also, to keep original lines of a paragraph unmangled,
 I would have to first
 do something like append each line of a paragraph with a delineating
 character to be used by something
 like sed to change that character into a newline.


Actually, you'd want to replace newlines, except blank ones with a
token, so you can sort your paragraphs, then change that token back to
a newline afterwards. This gives you a problem, the token has to be in
the space of valid characters if you want to do this as a stream, so
actually you need to translate it into an escaped string or something
similar to do this cleanly without risking turning a valid character
into a newline by mistake.

There are three other things you can do, one is, as Stephen suggests,
treat paragraphs as single lines and re-wrap them on output (the fold
command can help here), if preserving exact line breaks doesn't
matter. Two is using awk, you could get it to output a sort token at
the start of each line, this would be something like the paragraph
first word and a paragraph line number (possibly also a paragraph
count to avoid mixing lines from different paragraphs with the same
first word), you'd reset the paragraph line number at each blank line
and increment the paragraph count. Your print would look something
like:
print firstword paranum paraline $0
Then you have to undo it at the other end, this is a rough attempt:
cat somefile|awk ' BEGIN {paranum=1 ; paraline=1 } /^$/{paraline=1;
paranum++} /^.+$/{if (paraline==1) { firstword=$1 } ; print firstword
paranum paraline $0 ; paraline++}'|sort -k1,3 -n|awk '{if (
$3==1) print  ; for (i=1; iNF-2; i++) $i=$(i+3) ; NF=NF-3;  print
$0}'

... but it's limited since actually you may want to sort not by the
first word, but by the first few words of each paragraph, and it will
trash whitespace within the lines (it's the recombining that does
this, the second awk, you could replace it with something more
sophisticated).

Option 3. The trouble is that awk (and sed) really operate on a
per-line basis. Neither really even allows sorting of input, and the
sort command is also per line. Awk gives you sufficient programming
tools that you could solve this problem if you were willing to get
very complicated. However once you're dealing with multi-line text you
need better data structures. Using perl or python you could quite
easily load paragraphs as arrays of lines, and put those together into
a bigger array that can be sorted according to first lines. It
wouldn't be much of an extension either to use instead objects
containing the full paragraph text as a single string together with
the line array and then be able to sort on the full paragraph text.

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Re: F21: why Fedora still has not alternative init?

[Ian Malone]

On 5 May 2015 at 19:57, Antonio Olivares wingat...@inbox.com wrote:

 Well, I'd count the systemd and docker don't work together well
 bit with some degree of skepticism. But, on the larger point:

 Fedora doesn't strive to be bleeding edge. We strive to be the first to
 offer the newest and best of _functional_ open source software. And
 that's a hard balance to get right — sometimes, eager contributors and
 developers get things into Fedora that _aren't_ quite ready. Other
 times, we're too conservative.

 But I also don't see systemd as a crux of this. Another hot new minimal
 startup distribution, CoreOS, is _based around_ systemd.

 In any case, the Fedora.next initiative
 http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora.next is an attempt to work on
 this balance in new and different ways, with Fedora Cloud in particular
 being a space for experimenting with some of these new concepts (as
 that's sort of the incubation space for new OS technologies in the
 world at large right now).


 Debian-- Devuan
 Fedora -- Fedoruan?

 If you're interested in exploring a remix like that, see
 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Remix (although note that Fedoruan
 is probably not acceptable with our trademark guidelines).


 I do not know where I had seen CoreOS?  Maybe I confused it with Tiny Core?  
 At distrowatch, I had seen a distro based on Fedora

 http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20150427

 http://chapeaulinux.org/

 I am surprised that it has not gotten more coverage?  It is a Fedora Remix 
 too! , like old Fedora Remix by Rahul and one by Valent Turkovic.


No, this is CoreOS https://coreos.com/ see e.g.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/05/05/coreos_fest_roundtable/

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Re: WiFi restoration

[Ian Malone]

On 27 April 2015 at 11:02, Timothy Murphy gayle...@eircom.net wrote:
 Ian Malone wrote:

 If restarting the card allows it to reconnect when it gets into the
 connection lost state that does somewhat suggest there are accumulated
 errors somewhere (in the driver maybe) due to the poor connection that
 eventually cause a failure. Increasing the signal by moving the wifi
 access point as suggested may help mask that. One other thing you can
 do is do a modprobe -r on the kernel module for your device and then a
 modprobe to load it again. If it's a problem in the driver triggered
 by connection errors then that may clear it.

 Thanks for the response.
 I suspect from the entries in /var/log/messages that the problem is
 with the kernel module.
 In any case I'll add modprobe -r (which I assume is the same as rmmod ?)
 to the remedies I'll try if and when the problem recurs.


Similar, though modprobe -r deals with module dependencies (provided
they're not in use).

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Re: WiFi restoration

[Ian Malone]

On 25 April 2015 at 11:18, Timothy Murphy gayle...@eircom.net wrote:
 Tim wrote:

 On Sat, 2015-04-25 at 01:22 +0200, Timothy Murphy wrote:
 Airplane mode? Is there such a thing on a laptop?

 I would have thought so, people do use laptops when they travel.

 I'm running Fedora/KDE, and I don't see anything called Airplane mode
 (or Airplane anything) in KNetworkManager.


Plasma 5 has an explicit 'airplane' icon next to the switch which you
tick to disable wireless, in KDE4 it's just the enable wireless
checkbox, but does the same thing (except you uncheck it to disable):

With 'enable wireless' ticked:
[root@atlas ~]# rfkill list
0: phy0: Wireless LAN
Soft blocked: no
Hard blocked: no

With it unchecked:
[root@atlas ~]# rfkill list
0: phy0: Wireless LAN
Soft blocked: yes
Hard blocked: no

On my old Sony laptop there was a slider switch which would toggle
that 'Hard blocked' status. An interesting effect (that I discovered
when the switch became unreliable and I had to use a USB dongle) was
the Hard blocked setting would stop both attached cards running. I
suspect that's handled in networkmanager, as removing the kernel
module for the builtin wifi allowed the USB one to connect okay. On my
new laptop there is a function key which only acts on the 'Soft
blocked' state, in windows it can be configured to act on bluetooth
and wifi or bring up a controller for the different radios on board.

 I'm in the distant room where WiFi sometimes fails - but infrequently -
 and reception is fine at the moment;
 but if WiFi does fail I'll first try turning the wireless switch off
 for a few seconds, and then on again.
 I should have thought of that earlier.


If restarting the card allows it to reconnect when it gets into the
connection lost state that does somewhat suggest there are accumulated
errors somewhere (in the driver maybe) due to the poor connection that
eventually cause a failure. Increasing the signal by moving the wifi
access point as suggested may help mask that. One other thing you can
do is do a modprobe -r on the kernel module for your device and then a
modprobe to load it again. If it's a problem in the driver triggered
by connection errors then that may clear it.

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Re: [OT] For your amusement

[Ian Malone]

On 7 April 2015 at 20:50, jdow j...@earthlink.net wrote:


 Forums don't work after a remarkably short time unless there is a strong
 moderator presence and participation. For over a decade I moderated one of
 the most active Amiga developer related forums on any online service. I have
 grown to prefer mailing lists. They don't search any worse than forums,
 arguably better. And mailing lists tend to feature fewer discussion chains
 that directly contradict each other's advice absent strong participation by
 well clued moderators. I also have found that mailing lists are handier for
 browsing or scanning. Look over all the message subject lines, at least.
 You find things worth opening that way, things you'd never find on forums or
 would tend to ignore because they take too long to load pages and generally
 do not allow proper comment chains. For people who want to maintain
 themselves up to date with the community thoughts the process of reading
 messages sucks dead ponies through garden hoses.

Basically it's unfortunate that usenet is effectively dead.

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Re: Microsoft may lock out other OSes with Windows 10

[Ian Malone]

On 28 March 2015 at 11:33, Ian Malone ibmal...@gmail.com wrote:


 Differential pricing, if a menu option can be disabled it can be monetized.


(Or at least the sales people will think so.)

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Re: Microsoft may lock out other OSes with Windows 10

[Ian Malone]

On 27 March 2015 at 23:26, Pete Travis li...@petetravis.com wrote:
 On 03/27/2015 03:30 PM, Mickey wrote:
 Is this true with Linux, Fedora ?  I though Secure Boot was overcome as a
 problem.


 http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2015/03/23/microsoft-may-lock-out-other-oses-with-windows-10/?intcmp=ob_article_footer_textintcmp=obnetwork

 I'm not worried about this at all.  It just says that Microsoft *might not
 require* the option to allow users to disable.  I don't think any OEMs are
 going to love the marketing benefits of mandatory SecureBoot more than they
 like the business of their large customers that don't want it for $reasons,
 and they aren't going to be producing different hardware for retail and OEM
 because it just doesn't make business sense to do that.  Also, we have shim.


Differential pricing, if a menu option can be disabled it can be monetized.

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Re: Does KDE do offline software updates?

[Ian Malone]

On 26 March 2015 at 01:25, Marko Vojinovic vvma...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Thu, 26 Mar 2015 01:01:36 +
 Patrick O'Callaghan pocallag...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Wed, 2015-03-25 at 16:42 -0700, Rick Stevens wrote:
  If you update libraries a running program uses, it won't get the new
  libraries until it is restarted since it's already got a copy. In
  fact, I think any program that starts and wants that updated library
  will get the old version as it's already in memory.

 Are you sure of that? I always assumed that shared libraries are just
 files and once a file is replaced the normal rules apply, i.e.
 anything that opened it before the replacement gets the old version,
 anything that opens it afterwards gets the new one. That's how
 inconsistencies can arise.

 I'd second that question. I can easily imagine a running program which
 loads a library on *demand*, not on its start-up. So a program may
 start regularly, work for a while, and then try to load some library ---
 only to find out that the library was updated to an incompatible version
 in the meantime.

 Yum will of course make sure that there is a new version of the program
 itself which is compatible with the new library, but that is not
 necessarily the version of the program currently running in memory.

 At least, that's how I tend to explain firefox-updating glitches to
 myself. :-)

It may be that firefox is one of a few applications that work this
way. My understanding, which could be wrong, is that linked dynamic
libraries (those that get found by the compiler and linked while
building, because they are used by a program in a normal 'call this
function' way and without which available it will not build) get found
and loaded at start time. There are system calls to allow you to read
in functions from libraries at run time, these are less commonly used
as it's harder work and only needed for things like providing module
support. Applications doing that are still likely to search for and
load their modules at start-up, but could still try to load more
functions later. Not sure what firefox is having to do to keep tabs
separate from each other, may be loading separate instances of
libraries for that.

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Re: current laptop recommendations

[Ian Malone]

On 9 January 2015 at 14:41, Andras Simon sza...@gmail.com wrote:
 2015-01-09 15:03 GMT+01:00, Ian Malone ibmal...@gmail.com:
 On 9 January 2015 at 13:54, Ranjan Maitra maitra.mbox.igno...@inbox.com
 wrote:

 On Fri, 9 Jan 2015 13:43:58 + Ian Malone ibmal...@gmail.com wrote:

 Anyone have any good suggestions for a new laptop with good Linux
 compatibility? My current one is about 8 years old (IIRC), not looking
 for anything superspecced to replaced it, just annoyances like reduced
 battery life and the wifi switch playing up are starting to build up
 (plus people have poked the screen one too many times). It's a 13.3
 screen with 100GB hard drive and I guess I'd be hoping to find
 something similar with a maximum budget of about £500.


 I like my Dell XPS 13 (2.9 lbs) with 13.3 and 1920x1080 resolution and it
 actually came with Ubuntu (which I promptly stripped for Fedora) which
 also meant that I did not have to pay the Windoze tax.


 Yes, they look really nice! Was browsing them yesterday. Unfortunately
 a bit over budget as not my main computer and wont be getting loads of
 use.

 In that case, you may want to have a look at this:
 http://ktgee.net/post/49423737148/thinkpad-guide

 The one I've got recently (X201 with a Core i5 CPU and 4GB RAM)  for
 about $200 is well supported by Fedora, and may be good enough for
 what you want to use it (it certainly is for me).


Thanks for this pointer, I did go refurb in the end (a UK company
called tier1online, who provided pretty good service), and got a i5
T420 (the machine EGO II mentioned). Everything seemed to work out of
the box and start speed (with an SSD) on F22 beta is shockingly quick.
(A clean windows install for dual boot involved an hour downloading
and installing drivers, though credit to tier1, it had all the right
drivers on it when it got here.)

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calendar servers?

[Ian Malone]

I've got a project I'm developing for the raspberry pi which requires
a calendar server. While it will probably run on raspbian it would be
handy if I could do some of the work on Fedora. Is radicale the only
calendar server? It's the only one that shows up in a DNF search. They
have a pretty webpage, but I'm a little put off by their Development
choices: lazy thing, such as, The Radicale Server assumes that the
clients are perfect and that protocol violations do not exist.
Under raspbian there's the Darwin Calendar server (calendarserver)
though that has it's own problems in lacking TLS support.

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Re: calendar servers?

[Ian Malone]

On 24 March 2015 at 14:51, Dave Ihnat dih...@dminet.com wrote:
 On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 01:04:55PM +, Ian Malone wrote:
 I've got a project I'm developing for the raspberry pi which requires
 a calendar server. ...

 You could consider using ownCloud.  Among all the other services it offers
 is a shared calendar.


Thanks, had given it a look a while back and thought it might be a bit
heavy-duty if I just wanted a caldav facility, but it might do. The
Darwin one seems it should be the most compliant, but doesn't play
well with py-caldav.

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Re: How to increase maximum user cpu usage allowed on a multi core system?

[Ian Malone]

On 9 March 2015 at 19:03, stan stanl-fedorau...@vfemail.net wrote:
 I'm running Fedora 21 with a custom compiled kernel,
 3.19.0-1.20150211.fc21.x86_64.

 I have a multi core system with 6 cores.  All are recognized by the
 kernel.

 But, when I run a compile job with -j6, in order to allow all six cores
 to be used, it limits the total amount of usage to 100% of a *single*
 core.  So, it might use all six cores, but the sum of the percentages
 on those six cores is always around 100% of one core.  This is from
 htop output.

 On large compilations, like the kernel or firefox, even using 4 cores
 could drastically reduce compile time.

 I've looked at /etc/security/limits.conf, but it doesn't seem to have a
 setting for this.  I've also looked at the /proc system to see if there
 is a kernel variable, though that seems unlikely, with no luck.  Online
 searching found ways to limit the amount that a single job can get, but
 not how to set this for a user.  There must be a configuration variable
 somewhere that is limiting the amount of total cpu a user can use.  But
 I can't find it.

 Can anyone help?

Been wondering about this thread for a while, as I use make -j N since
some builds I've had to deal with (including the kernel) have pretty
much shut down the machines they're running on if allowed to run in
unrestricted -j mode.

Some people have said that this is priority related, that's not the
case. I can run make -j10 here (dcmtk-3.6.1 to test if anyone wants
to know) and see multiple ccplus going up to 100% at points, RHEL 6, a
2.6.3 kernel. What I do see during that process though is that early
on multiple jobs run at less than 100% and maybe at approximately
100%/N, this may be due to how make starts parallel jobs, or it may
simple be I/O or other non-CPU limiting on the compilation.
You may want to check the .NOTPARALLEL directive is not present
http://www.gnu.org/software/make/manual/make.html#Parallel though I
think that would simply prevent multiple processes.

To repeat, make -j N should be able to start N processes and they
should not be subject to an overall limit other than hardware.
(Incidentally, one process can use more than 100% if written to use
parallelisation, you can often see jvm doing this.)

Since I can't reproduce this problem I'm not sure what's causing it.
If you really are finding make subprocesses limited to 100% cpu across
the lot then maybe have a look to see if there are any cgroups limits
active 
https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-US/Red_Hat_Enterprise_Linux/6/html/Resource_Management_Guide/ch01.html
may also be worth running on the stock fedora kernel to test that it's
not something that you've turned on in your custom kernel.

Like I mentioned above, -j without N I've found can really make things
drag on heavy builds. Even if you don't care about running other
things at the same time, you can often get better a faster build by
choosing a good N, as too many processes at once compete for other
resources and run inefficiently. Things like hyperthreading can
compound this. The only time I've done that is building the kernel on
a dual core intel machine (no hyperthreading) and N=3 did turn out to
be fastest, but that 50% rule may not always be the case. With
hyperthreading present I've found with other processing tasks that
pushing above 50% total system load (i.e. more than N*100%, due to
virtual cores being counted) can actually slow down the overall task
noticeably.

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Re: Problems while installing NVdivia proprietary drivers

[Ian Malone]

On 24 February 2015 at 19:19, Richard Shaw hobbes1...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Tue, Feb 24, 2015 at 1:12 PM, Paul Smith phh...@gmail.com wrote:

 Dear All,

 I have installed the NVidia property drivers from RPMFusion
 repositories, inside a text session.

 Afterwards, I ran as root:

 nvidia-xconfig

 and rebooted.

 However, no X session is started after the reboot. Could someone
 please give some help?


 There's a reason that the packages came from RPM Fusion and not Fedora,
 namely they are binary proprietary drivers. Therefore it is generally
 inappropriate to seek support here.

 You could start with the RPM Fusion users mailing list but depending on what
 your issue is it may be better to try the Nvidia forums.


This list provides community assistance, encouragement, and advice
for Fedora users.
It may be more effective to ask on the RPM Fusion list (or it may not,
as there are more users here), but it's not at all off-topic here.

Anyway, glad to see the OP has got it sorted. I get by just using the
nv driver these days.

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Re: What is Ghost i.e security hole in the Linux?

[Ian Malone]

On 29 January 2015 at 02:17, Tim ignored_mail...@yahoo.com.au wrote:
 Allegedly, on or about 28 January 2015, Doug sent:
 ... A remote attacker able to call either of these functions could
 exploit the flaw to execute arbitrary code with the permissions of the
 user running the application

 All these security flaws come with the usual flaw allows escalation of
 privileges, able to execute arbitrary commands... red flags, but rarely
 give an understandable note about how easily an external hack can begin
 the attempt while the user is doing something ordinary that exposes them
 to the thing.

 i.e. It's all jargon aimed at programmers.

 In the dim and distant past, when I had a brief dalliance with Windows
 before Linux became realistically usable, you'd commonly get warnings
 about flaws which gave understandable information.  e.g. Opening a
 malicious attachment, or even just reading a malicious email, with
 version of particular program less than x.y, allows the hacker to do
 destructive things to your system.

 I know I've vagued-up the example, but you've got a sample of something
 that you might actually do - simply read an email, not even do anything
 with the attachments, get a virus because your email program stupidly
 executes something embedded in it.  That's probably less of a risk to
 Linux users, because we've never had stupid software like Outlook or
 Outlook express.  But we've certainly got browsers with flash plug-ins
 installed, which (flash) has always been a security nightmare, and it's
 just not feasible to simply forbid it; so many websites that we
 regularly want to use would simply fail to work.


This is to do with the nature of the exploit. You are /potentially/
vulnerable if you access the internet.
As https://www.qualys.com/research/security-advisories/GHOST-CVE-2015-0235.txt
notes, this is a vulnerability which programs may not run into at all
depending how they use the functions in question. You could find out
by doing a code audit on every program you use, or you could apply the
fix.

Warnings about opening emails and such things are to do with threat
vectors. Here the vector is that function and the thing to do to close
it is get a fixed glibc. If your email program is prone to running
javascript or something not opening the email is a work around for
something that needs to be fixed, it might seem nice to have advice
that keeps you safe, but it's a bit like telling someone they
shouldn't use a switch because the housing is live, the safe thing to
do is fix the problem.

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Re: No sound in Skype on Fedora 20 64-bit

[Ian Malone]

On 28 January 2015 at 02:53, Jim Lewis j...@jklewis.com wrote:



 On 01/27/2015 06:37 PM, Jim Lewis wrote:
   Okay, so I installed lpf-skype on Fedora 20 and also got the no sound
 problem. When I tried to fix it by doing what I did on F21:

 yum -y install pulseaudio-libs.i686 alsa-plugins-pulseaudio.i686



   Protected multilib versions: pulseaudio-libs-5.0-25.fc20.i686 !=
 pulseaudio-libs-5.0-7.fc20.x86_64

   How do I fix that one?

jd1008:
 So, how did you install lpf-skype?
 If you used yum, yum would have resolved all dependencies,
 so you would not have had to install anything afterwards.



 I used yum to install lpf-skype.

It sounds like lpf-skype has its dependencies wrong as it probably
should be listing 32bit pulse (it'll run without it, but wont perform
its major function).

Your immediate problem though is getting the 32 bit pulse installed.
The bit you snipped from the error is telling you more about it
Multilib version problems found. This often means that the root
cause is something else and multilib version checking is just
pointing out that there is a problem.

For some reason yum has determined it would be trying to install a
different version of 32bit pulseaudio-libs (5.0-25) to the 64bit one
(5.0-7). Normally it would just update the 64bit one so both are the
same version, something is preventing it from doing that.
Possibilities:
Something with a dependency on the older 64 bit version that doesn't
have an update available. Third party repositories or packages
installed without a repository are the likely culprits. - In this case
if you can find and remove the blocking package then you'll be able to
update, but you may not be able to reinstall.
Repo metadata is not properly updated yet and the newer 32bit library
is visible while the newer 64bit is not. In this case just waiting and
trying again later will probably work.
In either case you could get around it by installing the older 32bit
version, telling yum to install pulseaudio-libs-5.0-7.fc20.i686
(provided it's still available), though if something is holding you at
the older version you will run into it again at some point.

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Re: End of 32-bit support?

[Ian Malone]

On 20 January 2015 at 15:53, poma pomidorabelis...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 20.01.2015 03:24, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
 On Tue, 20 Jan 2015 02:12:23 + (UTC)
 Bill Oliver ven...@billoblog.com wrote:


 I recently read an interesting article recently that suggested that
 Fedora 23 might be 64-bit only:

 See:

 http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_itempx=Fedora-23-64-bit-Proposal

 Note that this is all from a blog post. :)

 There's not been any formal proposal, or even discussion on the devel
 list. Phoronix seems to be picking up any scrap of news. I guess it's
 flattering that Fedora is worth the scrutiny.


 Is this your professional or personal conclusion?


You might say it's Phoronix's.

Leader: An ambitious proposal is seeking to make Fedora 23 -- the
Linux distribution release due out around October -- 64-bit-only for
both x86 and ARM architectures.

Concluding: although no official proposal has yet to be submitted and
likely wouldn't be approved by FESCo for Fedora 23.

RHEL does not support 32bit at this point anyway, though Fedora does.
And it's been pointed out that OLPC represents a very large installed
base of x86 systems.
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/14.1.0

So far as I know raspberry pi is also 32bit ARM. While Pidora is a
remix rather than official Fedora dropping that would be similarly
getting rid of a chunk of users.

There has been some discussion on the dev list about 32 bit support in
relation to changes to PIE (position independent execution) and i686,
which is turning up people who are still using it.

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Re: current laptop recommendations

[Ian Malone]

On 12 January 2015 at 18:12, Steven Rosenberg
stevenhrosenb...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Sat, Jan 10, 2015 at 12:07 AM, Heinz Diehl htd...@fritha.org wrote:
 I've installed some newer Asus machines recently, and all worked
 flawlessly.

 I am taking care of a new Asus that I'm just about to put Linux on, so
 that is good news.

Meant to say, thanks to all who've replied, plenty of food for thought
and hopefully ideas for anyone else looking.

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current laptop recommendations

[Ian Malone]

Anyone have any good suggestions for a new laptop with good Linux
compatibility? My current one is about 8 years old (IIRC), not looking
for anything superspecced to replaced it, just annoyances like reduced
battery life and the wifi switch playing up are starting to build up
(plus people have poked the screen one too many times). It's a 13.3
screen with 100GB hard drive and I guess I'd be hoping to find
something similar with a maximum budget of about £500.

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Re: current laptop recommendations

[Ian Malone]

On 9 January 2015 at 13:49, EGO-II.1 eoconno...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 01/09/2015 08:43 AM, Ian Malone wrote:

 Anyone have any good suggestions for a new laptop with good Linux
 compatibility? My current one is about 8 years old (IIRC), not looking
 for anything superspecced to replaced it, just annoyances like reduced
 battery life and the wifi switch playing up are starting to build up
 (plus people have poked the screen one too many times). It's a 13.3
 screen with 100GB hard drive and I guess I'd be hoping to find
 something similar with a maximum budget of about £500.



 I don't know if this is equivalent to what you currently have, but I have
 a Lenovo T-420...it's not new as per se, but I've had it for quite some
 time and it's not given me any problems. (Its been in service since F-16)
 and I've had no problems with it. Plus parts for it are easily obtained
 online and its built tough. Bear in mind this is the i5 CPU. HTH



Thanks, what I currently have is a Vaio C2M/W
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sony-VAIO-VGN-C2M-W-Laptop-Silver/dp/B0050UPPD2
It has a Core 2 Duo processor, I think I'd be challenged to find
anything currently manufactured less powerful! Screen size and hard
drive space are about the only things from it I'd really compare to,
since screen size varies by intended use and some cheaper SSD fitted
laptops have quite limited hd.

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Re: current laptop recommendations

[Ian Malone]

On 9 January 2015 at 13:54, Ranjan Maitra maitra.mbox.igno...@inbox.com wrote:

 On Fri, 9 Jan 2015 13:43:58 + Ian Malone ibmal...@gmail.com wrote:

 Anyone have any good suggestions for a new laptop with good Linux
 compatibility? My current one is about 8 years old (IIRC), not looking
 for anything superspecced to replaced it, just annoyances like reduced
 battery life and the wifi switch playing up are starting to build up
 (plus people have poked the screen one too many times). It's a 13.3
 screen with 100GB hard drive and I guess I'd be hoping to find
 something similar with a maximum budget of about £500.


 I like my Dell XPS 13 (2.9 lbs) with 13.3 and 1920x1080 resolution and it 
 actually came with Ubuntu (which I promptly stripped for Fedora) which also 
 meant that I did not have to pay the Windoze tax.


Yes, they look really nice! Was browsing them yesterday. Unfortunately
a bit over budget as not my main computer and wont be getting loads of
use.

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Re: pdftk

[Ian Malone]

On 11 December 2014 at 10:59, Jon Ingason jon.inga...@telia.com wrote:
 Den 2014-12-11 05:08, Paul Allen Newell skrev:

 On 12/10/2014 08:02 PM, Ranjan Maitra wrote:
 On Wed, 10 Dec 2014 19:49:55 -0800 Paul Allen Newell
 pnew...@cs.cmu.edu wrote:

 On 12/10/2014 04:07 PM, Ranjan Maitra wrote:
 On Wed, 10 Dec 2014 18:55:10 -0500 Matthew Miller
 mat...@fedoraproject.org wrote:

 On Wed, Dec 10, 2014 at 05:51:59PM -0600, Ranjan Maitra wrote:
 It would be good if someone who could pick it up w/o the issues
 that
 Fedora had would do it -- pdftk was a good package and will be
 missed. Given that Fedora isn't going to continue, I understand it
 is a bit useless to make the comment here. But hopefully senior
 folk
 in Fedora can give a push for pdftk to be somewhere within the
 Linux world that Fedora users can pick up (and also Centos).
 We'd love to have it in Fedora. The itext5 author is really the
 person
 to talk to here.
 Who would that be? Can this go to RPMfusion?
 That's up to the RPMfusion people. But really, that's a lot less
 ideal than having the software licensed in a truly open way so
 everyone
 can benefit.
 Completely agree with this sentiment! But we can not do much here, I
 guess, except hope!

 Ranjan


 Okay, I will hope (and in a positive manner as opposed to sarcastic) ...
 but part of that will be in the spirit of my original use of the word
 hopeful that someone with a voice that matters can give a push to
 either itext5 author or rpmfusion group that it would be a good thing.

 Thanks for giving this thread a let's hope flavor rather than a ain't
 gonna happen so forget it brick wall
 Well, yes it is a fond hope because as I said, it is a fond hope. But
 I can't make it happen because I do not know the issues that this
 entails.

 Ranjan


 I probably know less of the issues involved and understand that I am
 walking a fine line to avoid sounding like a Pollyanna

 Paul

 Well, if you look at ITEXT website the software license is AGPL for
 itext5, (see http://itextpdf.com/agpl), which is Software Licenses that
 are OK for Fedora, (see
 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Licensing:Main?rd=Licensing).

 So it should be OK to use in Fedora or am I missing something?

Regrettably it's a slightly modified AGPL and, though IANAL, it looks
like the problematic additional restriction is still there:
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/legal/2011-June/001656.html

Which is a pity, because I used to like pdftk and have been missing it
since it was dropped. Didn't know about mcpdu which Raman Gupta
mentioned and will check it out. Would be cool if ITEXT could be
brought back (think it does all the heavy lifting for pdftk), but
would be to be approached diplomatically as ITEXT do have a business
they're trying to run.

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Re: Questions about Fedora 14 Workstation

[Ian Malone]

On 9 December 2014 at 22:46, Rahul Sundaram methe...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi

 On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 3:36 PM, Joe Zeff wrote:

 On 12/09/2014 12:25 PM, Rahul Sundaram wrote:

 On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 3:05 PM, Jeffrey Needle  wrote:

 __
 My vote: some ability to install whatever is available in the
 repositories, without having to jump all over the place to find
 stuff.


 Either command line or yumex for a graphical interface can help with that


 Excuse me, but last time I looked (about an hour ago) yumex *was* a
 graphical interface.


 And?  What is your point?


This is just a guess, but looks like Joe thought you were suggesting
using yumex to search for a graphical interface.


-- 
imalone
http://ibmalone.blogspot.co.uk
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Re: Latest systemd news

[Ian Malone]

On 1 December 2014 at 16:27, Rahul Sundaram methe...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi

 On Mon, Dec 1, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Lars E. Pettersson  wrote:

 My question was What part(s) of the systemd suite has not been adopted.
 Note the not part.


 Yes.  I understood that fine.  I was pointing out which parts have been
 adopted so you can count the rest as not adopted.  There are several
 different components which haven't been adopted nor even proposed because
 they are simply not yet ready or not general purpose enough to be used by
 default.


 when they are actually proposed, a discussion about them would be
 warranted.


 I.e. it might very well be adopted and therefor a discussion about it is
 in order. Why wait for the inevitable?


 That makes no sense.  You don't discuss developmental features of upstream
 projects in a users list.


 This is not about a test or development release. It is about new
 functionality finding its way into systemd


 Precisely why it is even more offtopic to discuss them here.  This list is
 meant for helping users on general releases of Fedora. Any features that are
 not part of the general releases of Fedora is not suitable for discussion
 here.  We wrote up the list guidelines for a reason.  Please follow them.


Where should users be discussing things that may negatively impact
them? On the systemd list they will get shouted down by systemd
cheerleaders, on the devel list they will get told the decision has
already been made and they should go to the systemd list.

-- 
imalone
http://ibmalone.blogspot.co.uk
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Re: Wrong sorting order in file managers of Fedora 20

[Ian Malone]

On 27 October 2014 13:48, M. Fioretti mfiore...@nexaima.net wrote:
 On 2014-10-27 07:41, Suvayu Ali wrote:

 I have a workaround that should let you finish your task for now, and
 let you handle the issue with dolphin later.  I would suggest install
 one of the light weight filemanagers where the sorting is like ls; my
 recommendation: Thunar (from XFCE), or pcmanfm (from LXDE).

 Hope this helps,


 it helps as a temporary workaround, yes. I'd really, really prefer to use
 Dolphin/
 Konqueror/Gwenview for this (Konqueror would be best, actually, as I can
 split it
 in as many sub-windows as I want, and see images inline, that is in full
 sub-window instead of opening yet one more window). But in the meantime,
 pcmanfm it is, is an improvement anyway for this part of the work.

 Still looking for a real patch to konqueror/dolphin, of course. Making them
 work as needed through some COLLATE/LOCALE env variables would be perfect,
 but it seems thouroughly undocumented (even the mere fact that it could
 work, or not)


Try this (on a copy of the files!):

for F in * ; do mv $F $(echo $F|sed -r -es'/^([0-9]{6})([0-9])/\1-\2/'
-es'/^([0-9]{4})([0-9])/\1-\2/') ; done

It'll rename 19350530-aunt-jane.jpg to 1935-05-30-aunt-jane.jpg and
194104-elvis.jpg to 1941-04-elvis.jpg, which will give them the right
sort order both in ls and sorts that compare numbers. Don't have a
Fedora to hand, but on RHEL I can't persuade nautilus to obey
LC_COLLATE despite setting the environment and trying various files
under /etc.

-- 
imalone
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