A sound observation
At this time I run all of my Fedora systems as VMs in VMware. My host is RHELv4.8. On this system my sound card is a ancient Creative Labs SB Audigy. When configuring the VM you can select either ALSA or OSS: /dev/dsp and directly access the sound hardware. ALSA is the preferred connection to avoid conflicts between the host and guest. While I am normally a KDE user my F12 system has both KDE and GNOME installed. I don't normally use sound on this VM...but sometime after the initial install sound has gone silent when the sound card is configured as ALSA. Wish I had paid more attention to what update caused the change. But to continue I also have an openSUSE system with only KDE installed and when I installed it I declined to install pulseaudio (they have a check-box for it). It is fully updated and sound with ALSA selected is no problem. So, I just installed F12 from the Live-KDE iso. Immediately after the install I removed all the pulseaudio bits and then fully updated the system. It too has no problem to play sound with ALSA configured. I snapshotted the system, did a yum groupinstall GNOME Desktop, restarted and *poof* sound is no more. pavucontrol did have the Output Devices at 10% and Playback at 0% but putting those at 100% made no difference. kmix had Master and PCM at max. At some point I may do a bit more troubleshooting. But, it is good to experience the frustration other have with sound and apparently pulseaudio. Chances are I'll be acquiring some new hardware in the coming months. I'm considering to run Fedora on it. If that happens...it will be sans GNOME and sans pulseaudio. At this moment pulseaudio seems more of a PITA than anything and kind of crazy that a desktop environment would tie itself to it. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: A sound observation
On Tue, 2010-02-02 at 17:12 +0800, Ed Greshko wrote: At this time I run all of my Fedora systems as VMs in VMware. My host is RHELv4.8. On this system my sound card is a ancient Creative Labs SB Audigy. When configuring the VM you can select either ALSA or OSS: /dev/dsp and directly access the sound hardware. ALSA is the preferred connection to avoid conflicts between the host and guest. While I am normally a KDE user my F12 system has both KDE and GNOME installed. I don't normally use sound on this VM...but sometime after the initial install sound has gone silent when the sound card is configured as ALSA. Wish I had paid more attention to what update caused the change. But to continue I also have an openSUSE system with only KDE installed and when I installed it I declined to install pulseaudio (they have a check-box for it). It is fully updated and sound with ALSA selected is no problem. So, I just installed F12 from the Live-KDE iso. Immediately after the install I removed all the pulseaudio bits and then fully updated the system. It too has no problem to play sound with ALSA configured. I snapshotted the system, did a yum groupinstall GNOME Desktop, restarted and *poof* sound is no more. pavucontrol did have the Output Devices at 10% and Playback at 0% but putting those at 100% made no difference. kmix had Master and PCM at max. At some point I may do a bit more troubleshooting. But, it is good to experience the frustration other have with sound and apparently pulseaudio. Chances are I'll be acquiring some new hardware in the coming months. I'm considering to run Fedora on it. If that happens...it will be sans GNOME and sans pulseaudio. At this moment pulseaudio seems more of a PITA than anything and kind of crazy that a desktop environment would tie itself to it. Hi I use F12 Gnome fully updated and find pulse audio sound preference doesn't offer the control I want for my ntel 82801 (ICH9 family) HD Audio Namely I have radio coming in on audio IN and want it to play through the Desktop speakers. Pulse audio Sound Preferences show the Audio in has content BUT has no ability to route it to the Sound OUPUT I therefore have had to install gmixer as it DOES offer the ability to route Audio IN to Audio Output !! The pulse audio sound preference seems vary limited in controlling a sound card facilities --Andrew Gray -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: A sound observation
Also might be worth running alsamixer or alsamixer -c0 from the terminal, and making sure that things like pcm are set at a sensible level - checking all other levels as well. Occasionally in the past I have been without sound and that approach has almost always fixed things for me - having said that I have not had any sound issues myself in f12. -- View this message in context: http://n3.nabble.com/A-sound-observation-tp182542p182854.html Sent from the Fedora Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: A sound observation
Mike Cloaked wrote: Also might be worth running alsamixer or alsamixer -c0 from the terminal, and making sure that things like pcm are set at a sensible level - checking all other levels as well. Occasionally in the past I have been without sound and that approach has almost always fixed things for me - having said that I have not had any sound issues myself in f12. Sounds like something to check as time permits. Thanks, Ed -- Even bytes get lonely for a little bit. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: A sound observation
Kevin Kofler wrote: Ed Greshko wrote: At this moment pulseaudio seems more of a PITA than anything and kind of crazy that a desktop environment would tie itself to it. We also default to PulseAudio in KDE, this is not just a GNOME thing, PulseAudio is the default in Fedora in general. Your problems seem to be due to proprietary software (VMware) not supporting PulseAudio properly. They're probably doing strange things to the ALSA API. This is not a Fedora problem. First of all I don't know why you use we. I don't think you speak for the Fedora Project. (OK, I'm very sure you don't speak for the Fedora Project) I discount most of what you say. Second, I know that within the Fedora KDE release pulseaudio is installed by default. But, unlike GNOME one can easily dispense with pulseaudio with KDE installed from the start. Third, sound worked just fine on my VM's prior to an update. Others have had their issues with pulse audio even without VMware. IMHO, pulseaudio is a work in progress. Last, but not least, these are my observations. I don't/didn't suggest it was any particular entities problem. Yet, I have come to the conclusion that life without pulseaudio is my preferred path. And, since GNOME seems (unless I can keep it from pulling in PA) to have requirements for pulseaudio life is better off without GNOME. Again, these are my observations and my conclusions. As time goes on, I will revisit them. -- Yow! signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: A sound observation
Ed Greshko wrote: First of all I don't know why you use we. I don't think you speak for the Fedora Project. (OK, I'm very sure you don't speak for the Fedora Project) I discount most of what you say. I am a Fedora KDE packager, so I say we when I speak of the KDE SIG in particular or Fedora packagers in general. (In this case, it was about how KDE is set up in Fedora, so I obviously meant we as in the Fedora KDE packagers. And yes, I'm one of the decision-makers in KDE SIG.) Second, I know that within the Fedora KDE release pulseaudio is installed by default. But, unlike GNOME one can easily dispense with pulseaudio with KDE installed from the start. PulseAudio is getting more and more integrated in KDE as well. See e.g.: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/KDE_PulseAudio_Integration Third, sound worked just fine on my VM's prior to an update. That's because you installed from the F12 KDE spin which had a packaging mistake which made Phonon not use PulseAudio. As a result, Phonon would grab the sound device directly and prevent PulseAudio from grabbing it. The update you complain about is probably the one which fixed that issue. (Phonon does use PulseAudio now in F12 + updates.) Others have had their issues with pulse audio even without VMware. Not all of those are PulseAudio's fault. Sure, PulseAudio also has bugs, but most of the issues are caused either by broken applications or by broken ALSA drivers. Many of those issues have already been fixed. PulseAudio itself also gets many bugfixes. IMHO, pulseaudio is a work in progress. Almost all software is. That doesn't mean it's not already usable now. Kevin Kofler -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: A sound observation
Kevin Kofler wrote: Ed Greshko wrote: First of all I don't know why you use we. I don't think you speak for the Fedora Project. (OK, I'm very sure you don't speak for the Fedora Project) I discount most of what you say. I am a Fedora KDE packager, so I say we when I speak of the KDE SIG in particular or Fedora packagers in general. (In this case, it was about how KDE is set up in Fedora, so I obviously meant we as in the Fedora KDE packagers. And yes, I'm one of the decision-makers in KDE SIG.) That's nice. Yet, you are still only one of the many. I sure hope that when you use we you have consulted with the others in your collective to insure you are speaking for everyone. You certainly didn't ask when you stated that we didn't have the time to help an F9 user with an issue he had. Nor did you see fit to explain the context of we. Second, I know that within the Fedora KDE release pulseaudio is installed by default. But, unlike GNOME one can easily dispense with pulseaudio with KDE installed from the start. PulseAudio is getting more and more integrated in KDE as well. See e.g.: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/KDE_PulseAudio_Integration Yet, it can still be ripped out nicely in KDE. Third, sound worked just fine on my VM's prior to an update. That's because you installed from the F12 KDE spin which had a packaging mistake which made Phonon not use PulseAudio. As a result, Phonon would grab the sound device directly and prevent PulseAudio from grabbing it. The update you complain about is probably the one which fixed that issue. (Phonon does use PulseAudio now in F12 + updates.) It seems I may have not been clear in my original message and left it to open to interpretation. Yet I didn't say my original install was from the KDE spin. The original install was from the Fedora-12-i386-DVD.iso and customized to include both GNOME and KDE. And sound worked just fine. At some point, when I wasn't paying attention, sound died. FWIW, a Ubuntu VM running pulseaudio 0.9.19 works just fine. Going to be interesting to see what happens when Ubuntu updates to 0.9.21. IMHO, pulseaudio is a work in progress. Almost all software is. That doesn't mean it's not already usable now. It is, for me, unusable if updates break things that used to work. -- Cole's Law: Thinly sliced cabbage. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
