Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...
Am 12.09.2011 20:47, schrieb Joe Zeff: On 09/12/2011 11:05 AM, Frederick N. Brier wrote: Wow. Thank you. I was hesitant to try KDE after reading about 4.x, but XFCE has brought most of the snappiness back to my machine. There's an old trick that most of the early window managers used that I hadn't seen in years until I tried XFCE: the context menu you get when you right-click on the desktop contains your complete main menu, including Preferences and Administration. well you can configure KDE to do so with some clicks in the preferences signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...
On 09/12/2011 07:47 PM, Joe Zeff wrote: On 09/12/2011 11:05 AM, Frederick N. Brier wrote: Wow. Thank you. I was hesitant to try KDE after reading about 4.x, but XFCE has brought most of the snappiness back to my machine. There's an old trick that most of the early window managers used that I hadn't seen in years until I tried XFCE: the context menu you get when you right-click on the desktop contains your complete main menu, including Preferences and Administration. No more need to go over to the panel to launch a program or control panel, just right-click wherever your mouse happens to be. Lack of it isn't a show-stopper, of course, but once you get used to it, it's very convenient. I mention it mostly because you may not have found it yet. I certainly hadn't. Mind you, I haven't seen my desktop for years. I suppose it must be under there somewhere... Andrew. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...
On 09/09/2011 03:57 PM, Clemens Eisserer wrote: A lot of people dismissed KDE after the rough time of version 4.0, in a similar way that Gnome3 is now losing its userbase. But today KDE4 is a beautiful, stable and very user-friendly DE. Stable? I had to wait until KDE-4.6 until I finally decided that waiting and reporting bugs won't fix its buginess. Switched to XFCE a few months ago, and didn't regret it. A traditional desktop as I like it (a lot like KDE3). - Clemens Wow. Thank you. I was hesitant to try KDE after reading about 4.x, but XFCE has brought most of the snappiness back to my machine. The Chrome bookmarks pop-up dialog and IntelliJ's smart code completion are still slower than they were under F14, but faster than Gnome3. And it was SO easy to install. I have done a lot with Fedora, but I have never installed a second Window Manager. Just stuck with Gnome. Yeah Fedora! Gee, now I might try IceWM just for giggles. :) Fred -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...
On 09/12/2011 11:05 AM, Frederick N. Brier wrote: Wow. Thank you. I was hesitant to try KDE after reading about 4.x, but XFCE has brought most of the snappiness back to my machine. There's an old trick that most of the early window managers used that I hadn't seen in years until I tried XFCE: the context menu you get when you right-click on the desktop contains your complete main menu, including Preferences and Administration. No more need to go over to the panel to launch a program or control panel, just right-click wherever your mouse happens to be. Lack of it isn't a show-stopper, of course, but once you get used to it, it's very convenient. I mention it mostly because you may not have found it yet. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...
A lot of people dismissed KDE after the rough time of version 4.0, in a similar way that Gnome3 is now losing its userbase. But today KDE4 is a beautiful, stable and very user-friendly DE. Stable? I had to wait until KDE-4.6 until I finally decided that waiting and reporting bugs won't fix its buginess. Switched to XFCE a few months ago, and didn't regret it. A traditional desktop as I like it (a lot like KDE3). - Clemens -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...
On Wed, 2011-09-07 at 23:05 +, Mark Eggers wrote: The left-screen / right-screen tango with a large monitor is cumbersome. Many have commented on this. I find it unpleasant as well. The work-around I use is Ctrl-Alt up-arrow and down-arrow. This allows me to easily page through my virtual desktops. The virtual desktops don't wrap around, and they're not labeled, but it's certainly better than the mouse equivalents. I think it's a fundamental screw-up to make someone use the keyboard with a WIMP (Windows Icons Mouse Pointer) GUI. Sure, you're probably not actually /forced/ to, but if it's a major pain to mouse about, it comes to the same issue. And I mean that in regards to either swapping between mousing and keyboard, or worse, having to use both simultaneously. 4B. Organization Alphabetic? Really? Yes, there are menus on the right hand side, but this does not come up by default. I'll diverge from your comment, a bit, but since you called it organisation, and things are being redesigned all over the place, I'll stick in a pet peeve of mine. The scroll bars are generally on the right of the screen, and the menus are generally on the left. LIkewise with commonly used buttons at the top of the window (they're far away from the scroll bar). As far as GUI designs go, this is horrible. If you want to be nice to users, it'd be more convenient to bring the two closer together, such as menus being right justified in a big window. / name of window ---+++\ | file edit view other menus | | S | C | R | O | L | L Or, being able to move the scroll bar onto the left side. Lots of quote snippage that'd have many me toos written with them... -- [tim@localhost ~]$ uname -r 2.6.27.25-78.2.56.fc9.i686 Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored. I read messages from the public lists. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...
Too much work. I'd recommend either Gnome's fallback mode or use a taskbar like tint2, which is what I'm doing now :) On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 1:18 PM, Darryl L. Pierce dpie...@redhat.com wrote: I liked Gnome2. Mostly I liked all the nice GUI utilities built on top of it. And now I am not sure what I am going to do. I think that everybody who wants to have Gnome2 need to get together and do things the Open Source Way: 1. fork the Gnome2 codebase (maybe give it a new project name) 2. keep it updated with fixes, new features, etc. 3. make it available to others who want to keep using that paradigm Then everybody can be happy and have what they want. :) -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...
On 09/08/2011 09:32 AM, Pedro Francisco wrote: Too much work. I'd recommend either Gnome's fallback mode or use a taskbar like tint2, which is what I'm doing now :) It makes far more sense to do what many have already done and switch to a stable and configurable DE that better suits your needs. Seriously, Gnome 2 is dead - move on. Choose one of the alternatives - [Gnome 3 or] KDE or LXDE or XFCE or ... Everyone is required to change - if you don't like G-3 there are several great DE's ... fedora makes it super easy to try them - then pick the one that suits your needs. Fiddling and diddling and painting the donkey to look like a horse wont get you a horse :-) If indeed G-3 is targeted at the tablet market as some say, then perhaps one day it will be able to compete against Android, perhaps that will be its home. For those who use their computers for real work (not just browsing and tweeting) the other DE's offer a superior environment (for many). In fact, I would suggest that G-3 be changed to a tablet spin and lets make KDE the default DE for [lap/desk]/tops. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...
On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 2:46 PM, Genes MailLists li...@sapience.com wrote: Everyone is required to change - if you don't like G-3 there are several great DE's ... fedora makes it super easy to try them - then pick the one that suits your needs. Fiddling and diddling and painting the donkey to look like a horse wont get you a horse :-) If indeed G-3 is targeted at the tablet market as some say, then perhaps one day it will be able to compete against Android, perhaps that will be its home. For those who use their computers for real work (not just browsing and tweeting) the other DE's offer a superior environment (for many). In fact, I would suggest that G-3 be changed to a tablet spin and lets make KDE the default DE for [lap/desk]/tops. Actually I wonder how many people who have posted so much about G-2 being retained, and how difficult G-3 is, have actually used KDE current in f15? I have been using it for a while now and it really is nice - and a completely different DE to the first shaky new KDE 4.0 that emerged only a couple of versions ago it is very usable and worthy of daily use now as KDE4.6 or 4.7... You are right G-2 is yesterday's desktop - today we have G-3 for those that like it, and it may be a hard pill for some to swallow, even if it does head down the tablet route (sorry - could not resist!) but if it is impossible to swallow then I would really recommend people do try KDE or one of the other DEs that have been mentioned. There are good alternatives to G-3. -- mike c -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...
On 09/02/2011 07:31 AM, Stefan Held wrote: Am Freitag, den 02.09.2011, 09:44 -0400 schrieb Darryl L. Pierce: Great points. If we didn't have change and innovation we'd all still be using 80x25 monochrome text mode terminals. What was wrong with 80x25 monochrome? I liked the Hercules display :). No, but seriously, Gnome3 is irritating. To have to click on Activities to change and repaint the whole screen, and then select the category of an item you want (if you have not added it to your favorites), then click on it, then repaint the screen again. And the screen real estate for the Activities text does nothing else. Nothing. You can't even right click on it. You also can't right click on the desktop menu items and bring up their properties. Can't copy and edit them (I like that for rdesktop and other commands that have parameters). No, you have to find the old MainMenu utility and create an item in the non-existent menu so it will show up. Maybe there is another way, but it ain't intuitive. What's with no right clicks? Only one mouse button? Instead of Unix's 3 buttons? Is this a lowest common denominator solution for someone who installs Linux on a Mac? I have been using Gnome3 for over 3 weeks now. I tried adding AWN. Tweaking different parameters. It is STILL annoying. And SLW. There is a reason why menus have been around so long. So yeah, I guess I think the Gnome guys fumbled the ball. I liked Gnome2. Mostly I liked all the nice GUI utilities built on top of it. And now I am not sure what I am going to do. It was only a change, no innovation . http://www.songmeanings.net/songs/view/76280/ -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...
On Wed, 07 Sep 2011 11:23:26 -0700, Frederick N. Brier wrote: On 09/02/2011 07:31 AM, Stefan Held wrote: Am Freitag, den 02.09.2011, 09:44 -0400 schrieb Darryl L. Pierce: Great points. If we didn't have change and innovation we'd all still be using 80x25 monochrome text mode terminals. What was wrong with 80x25 monochrome? I liked the Hercules display :). No, but seriously, Gnome3 is irritating. To have to click on Activities to change and repaint the whole screen, and then select the category of an item you want (if you have not added it to your favorites), then click on it, then repaint the screen again. And the screen real estate for the Activities text does nothing else. Nothing. You can't even right click on it. You also can't right click on the desktop menu items and bring up their properties. Can't copy and edit them (I like that for rdesktop and other commands that have parameters). No, you have to find the old MainMenu utility and create an item in the non-existent menu so it will show up. Maybe there is another way, but it ain't intuitive. What's with no right clicks? Only one mouse button? Instead of Unix's 3 buttons? Is this a lowest common denominator solution for someone who installs Linux on a Mac? I have been using Gnome3 for over 3 weeks now. I tried adding AWN. Tweaking different parameters. It is STILL annoying. And SLW. There is a reason why menus have been around so long. So yeah, I guess I think the Gnome guys fumbled the ball. I liked Gnome2. Mostly I liked all the nice GUI utilities built on top of it. And now I am not sure what I am going to do. It was only a change, no innovation . http://www.songmeanings.net/songs/view/76280/ This is going to be long, and I'm commenting late. First of all, a few general comments and caveats. Comment: Notice how the person responsible for starting this flame-fest wrote one message and hasn't reappeared? Caveat: I am a KDE user (mostly) or a WindowMaker user. However, I've been using Gnome 3 on and off since Fedora 15 was released. Take my comments with the above caveat in mind. Like many people, I find a lot of the UI changes in Gnome 3 to be a bit irritating. However, I have found several reasonable work-arounds. 1. Switching virtual desktops The left-screen / right-screen tango with a large monitor is cumbersome. Many have commented on this. I find it unpleasant as well. The work-around I use is Ctrl-Alt up-arrow and down-arrow. This allows me to easily page through my virtual desktops. The virtual desktops don't wrap around, and they're not labeled, but it's certainly better than the mouse equivalents. 2. Applets Quite frankly, I don't miss these at all. I have a weather plugin for Chrome, and I use gkrellm for system monitoring. If you alt-right-mouse click on gkrellm, you can choose Always on visible Workspace which lets you see your machine's suffering on every desktop :-p. 3. Items on desktop I've never been a fan of items on the desktop. I usually have too many things running so double-clicking on a desktop item is counter-productive. That said, you can probably manage a lot with having Nautilus show up on every workspace. Again, just right-mouse click on the title bar and select Always on visible Workspace. 4. Right-mouse click on the desktop I've not missed this nearly as much as I thought I would. I find that Alt- F2 and entering a command works for most of my needs. I actually use this a lot (see Applications menu below). Things I don't like 1. Performance On this old machine (2.6 GHz P4, 1.5 GB memory, overclocked Nvidia 7600GS AGPx4 card), Gnome 3 consumes the most memory and renders the slowest of KDE 4 / WindowMaker / Gnome 3. Hopefully the Gnome developers will improve performance in the upcoming releases. Early versions of KDE 4 had performance problems as well, so one can hope. 2. Uncontrollable workspaces This one is irritating. I tend to lay out my workspaces in a particular order. I group running tasks on particular workspace based on what I'm doing. Think of it as an alternative to the KDE activities concept. I find now that if I don't open programs in a certain order, then they get placed on an unfamiliar workspace. While this isn't a huge problem, it makes setting up workspaces based on tasks more cumbersome than it should be. I can get around some of this with alt-tab (through all programs), but this is less than optimal. 3. Workspace behavior when ending last program This one is a bit convoluted to explain. I have gkrellm visible on all of the workspaces. If I go to the last workspace and start a new program, everything works as expected. However, if I close that program, I get the same view as if I put my mouse cursor in the upper left-hand corner of the screen - the activities view. I have to hit the escape key to bring me back to a workspace view. This also happens if I launch a KDE program -
Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...
On 09/02/2011 12:53 PM, Tom Horsley wrote: Joe Zeff wrote: Since when has there been the slightest sign of the Gnome devs giving a rats ass about what mere users think? They care enormously about what the imaginary user they have created thinks. Real users, not so much. They can always imagine overwhelmingly greater numbers of imaginary users than real users :-). Wow. I hope you guys are just as effusive with your praise to developers for software that you actually like... - Mike -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...
On 09/06/2011 05:17 AM, Dr. Michael J. Chudobiak wrote: Wow. I hope you guys are just as effusive with your praise to developers for software that you actually like... It's not that we don't like Gnome. I used Gnome 2.x and liked it. What I never liked is the attitude of the devs, even then. Unless you were actively working on Gnome development, they not only wouldn't discuss your suggestions, they'd tell you to start developing or Go Away. And, the attitude of the users on the support forums at gnome.org is The Developers Can Do No Wrong. If you post anything there that doesn't fit that mindset, you get flamed, and that's about the only way to get a response to a post. Aside from that, it's a write only forum. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...
On 09/02/2011 02:46 AM, DJ Delorie wrote: Does it support Gnome 2 ? That seems to be what everyone who complains about Gnome 3 actually wants... http://k3rnel.net/2011/06/15/bluebubble-faq/ Rahul -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...
On Fri, Sep 02, 2011 at 04:32:07AM +, Amadeus W.M. wrote:
Why did the UI have to change to something that looks and feels
like a giant smart phone?
Integrated chat and messaging? Where did that come from?
Maybe because in the not too distant future all PCs will
become giant (or dwarf) smart phones {^+^}
http://shop.lenovo.com/us/products/Desktops/IdeaCentre/b-series/b520/index.html
Alexander (who does not own or use a smart phone).
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Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...
On Thu, 01 Sep 2011 23:20:19 -0400 Matthew Saltzman m...@clemson.edu wrote: On Thu, 2011-09-01 at 14:34 -0700, Joe Zeff wrote: On 09/01/2011 02:18 PM, Matthew Saltzman wrote: gnome-shell-extension-righthotcorner-1.0-1.fc15.noarch Why do you have to install an extension to make such a small change? Shouldn't this be configurable? Think of it as a different configuration mechanism. You mean like the C compiler is the configuration mechanism for some options in gnome 2.x 8) Ease of use. We've replaced option boxes with magic impenetrable extensions and for the rest you have to code them yourself. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...
On Thu, 1 Sep 2011 21:04:18 -0400 Mark W. Jeanmougin mar...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 18:03, Rudolf Kastl che...@gmail.com wrote: 2011/9/1 Alan Cox a...@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk: If you really want everything to just get out of the way and don't need the user niceness stuff you might also want to look at Enlightement yum search enlightenment Alan e17 will be removed from f16 because of a for it unfortunately (afaik it has been orphaned). because of that id recommend at this point aswell to try xfce and/or lxde for a serious work environment. Nooo! Well you know what to do 8) lack of maintainer ... Shouldn't be too hard to deal with anyway as its just a few packages to feed to rpmbuild again, unlike Gnome 2 where it will clash with Gnome 3 -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...
2011/9/2 Alan Cox a...@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk: On Thu, 1 Sep 2011 21:04:18 -0400 Mark W. Jeanmougin mar...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 18:03, Rudolf Kastl che...@gmail.com wrote: 2011/9/1 Alan Cox a...@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk: If you really want everything to just get out of the way and don't need the user niceness stuff you might also want to look at Enlightement yum search enlightenment Alan e17 will be removed from f16 because of a for it unfortunately (afaik it has been orphaned). because of that id recommend at this point aswell to try xfce and/or lxde for a serious work environment. Nooo! Well you know what to do 8) lack of maintainer ... Shouldn't be too hard to deal with anyway as its just a few packages to feed to rpmbuild again, unlike Gnome 2 where it will clash with Gnome 3 Id be willing to offer help to anyone going to maintain e17 again to resolve technical issues and questions. Just drop me an email with the subject e17 or enlightenment. kind regards, Rudolf Kastl -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...
On 1 September 2011 21:15, Linda McLeod lindavald...@fastmail.fm wrote: I love this Fedora-14, and everything Red Hat, but Fedora-15 is a lot like those vile Windows OS's.. Essentially, every time I see a post like this I stop reading as soon as it tries to argue that something is wrong because it's like Windows. Reductio ad Gates is not a valid demonstration that something is undesireable and successive attempts at doing it commonly vary between 'this is obscure', 'this is oversimplified', 'this isn't configurable to my liking' and 'I don't like it'. All of those on their own might be good reasons to object to a design or feature and might be points worth discussing, but lots of people seem to thing that the Linux community is about Not Being Windows and that if you can equate something you don't like to Windows in some way then you've proved that it's undesireable. This is simply not true. -- imalone -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
R: Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...
Messaggio originale Da: ibmal...@gmail.com Data: 2-set-2011 11.51 A: Community support for Fedora usersusers@lists.fedoraproject.org Ogg: Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS#39;s.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try... On 1 September 2011 21:15, Linda McLeod lindavald...@fastmail.fm wrote: I love this Fedora-14, and everything Red Hat, but Fedora-15 is a lot like those vile Windows OS's.. Essentially, every time I see a post like this I stop reading as soon as it tries to argue that something is wrong because it's like Windows. Reductio ad Gates is not a valid demonstration that something is undesireable and successive attempts at doing it commonly vary between 'this is obscure', 'this is oversimplified', 'this isn't configurable to my liking' and 'I don't like it'. All of those on their own might be good reasons to object to a design or feature and might be points worth discussing, but lots of people seem to thing that the Linux community is about Not Being Windows and that if you can equate something you don't like to Windows in some way then you've proved that it's undesireable. This is simply not true. -- imalone -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/usersGuidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines For sure, Gnome 3 is far from Windows. I suggest an easy test: install a brand new Fedora 15 and let a Windows user start to use it (someone who never saw a Linux system), report his experience -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...
2011/9/2 Amadeus W.M. amadeu...@verizon.net: But it's a sin to take something good - granted, possibly not perfect - and turn it into something unusable for so many people. Why did the UI have to change to something that looks and feels like a giant smart phone? Integrated chat and messaging? Where did that come from? Thank God you guys didn't integrate that into the kernel! I can't find much information about the gnome3 developers, but they must be generation Facebook - it's the stay connected philosophy that I see in gnome3. There's more to computing than that. I wish someone from the old guard found the time and energy to step up and straighten things up. I know, I know, different times, different priorities. The gnome2 UI was good, only the internals would have to be changed as needed. Don't forget about people like me who really likes new gnome3. You want change distribution only cause you doesn't like new gnome3. Did you write all your problems at F-15 alpha stage or earlier stage when everything was possible to do ? Guess not, but now you want to back some support only cause you doesn't like it. Of course there are many people who wrote here how they doesn't like gnome3, but did you think when people who like something doesn't special write about it. -- Łukasz Jagiełło lukaszatjagiellodotorg -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...
On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 01:32, Amadeus W.M. amadeu...@verizon.net wrote: I can't find much information about the gnome3 developers, but they must be generation Facebook - it's the stay connected philosophy that I see in gnome3. There's more to computing than that. I wish someone from the old guard found the time and energy to step up and straighten things up. You certainly meant generation stupid. Not to mention the young kids at Gurgle (Google) screwing user interfaces in every way you can imagine, ditching CUA menus and making others like the Firefox team imitate them, by ditching well thought out useful features like the status bar. FC -- Si, yo creo en los objetos. Inclusive más que en los seres humanos. Creo que son más fieles ¿no?. Porque, claro, los seres humanos pueden traicionarte, pero los objetos no, a los objetos los traicionamos nosotros. -Manuel Mujica Laines -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...
On 09/02/2011 12:43 PM, Łukasz Jagiełło wrote: 2011/9/2 Amadeus W.M. amadeu...@verizon.net: But it's a sin to take something good - granted, possibly not perfect - and turn it into something unusable for so many people. Why did the UI have to change to something that looks and feels like a giant smart phone? Integrated chat and messaging? Where did that come from? Thank God you guys didn't integrate that into the kernel! I can't find much information about the gnome3 developers, but they must be generation Facebook - it's the stay connected philosophy that I see in gnome3. There's more to computing than that. I wish someone from the old guard found the time and energy to step up and straighten things up. I know, I know, different times, different priorities. The gnome2 UI was good, only the internals would have to be changed as needed. Don't forget about people like me who really likes new gnome3. You want change distribution only cause you doesn't like new gnome3. Did you write all your problems at F-15 alpha stage or earlier stage when everything was possible to do ? Guess not Fedora 15 is the first real outing for GNOME 3. Most people, perhaps understandably, don't want to spend much of their lives experimenting with alpha operating systems just in case the developers do something they don't like. Clearly there are, for many people, severe usability problems with GNOME 3. I hope that the GNOME developers will make good use of this feedback. Andrew. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...
On 1 September 2011 21:29, Digimer li...@alteeve.com wrote: Also, Linux is all about choice. https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2008-January/msg00861.html Richard. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...
On Thu, Sep 01, 2011 at 04:29:59PM -0400, Digimer wrote: When Red hat 8 (original) came out, I hated Gnome and wanted Enlightenment back. When Windows 95 came out, I hated it's new UI and wanted 3.1 back. Great points. If we didn't have change and innovation we'd all still be using 80x25 monochrome text mode terminals. Things change, it's part of computers (and everything else). So when F15 came out, I decided to let go of my old ways of working and try to understand the logic and flow of Gnome 3. Now I love it, and get frustrated back on Gnome2 machines. Also, Linux is all about choice. Gnome 3 is what it is. You are welcome to use KDE, XFCE, Ubuntu's Ubiquity or any one of the numerous other window managers and/or distros. +1 to all of the above. The system is flexible enough that users can go to another desktop environment, or mix and match what's there, without giving up the whole OS. If your work is completely tied to a single implementation of one version of a desktop environment then I think you might be doing it wrong... -- Darryl L. Pierce, Sr. Software Engineer @ Red Hat, Inc. Delivering value year after year. Red Hat ranks #1 in value among software vendors. http://www.redhat.com/promo/vendor/ pgpiwNoUpW761.pgp Description: PGP signature -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...
On Fri, 2 Sep 2011 14:43:42 +0100 Richard Hughes hughsi...@gmail.com wrote: On 1 September 2011 21:29, Digimer li...@alteeve.com wrote: Also, Linux is all about choice. https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2008-January/msg00861.html Yeah its a very naïve viewpoint. The problem starts here Software is hard. The way to fix it is to fix it, not sweep it under the rug. That presupposes there is a definition of fixed that is global, absolute and measurable. There isn't. You can fix certain bits of software because they have a tightly definable purpose. A desktop UI doesn't because everyone who is involved with it has a different definition of fixed. Instead it is either about balancing those tradeoffs, or in some cases just accepting the two differing viewpoints actually don't easily reconcile and can't be wrapped nicely in one package. Yes it should be fixed too - Gnome3 shouldn't have such a lousy compositor performance, it shouldn't rely on GL when it's completely excessive for what it does (take a look at the E canvas in comparison) etc, and it really ought to handle smaller machines better rather than aping the Windows 'gee thats hard, it, fallback to a naff emulation of the old code' behaviour. Desktops are a a bit more like the old Star Wars quote - The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers. . Equally the less grip you have the less managable it all gets. No easy answers but there is a free market, and weaker solutions go away (amazingly fast some times - fvwm went from hero to zero in a few years for example) Alan -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...
2011/9/2, Alan Cox a...@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk: No easy answers but there is a free market, and weaker solutions go away (amazingly fast some times - fvwm went from hero to zero in a few years for example) I assume you meant fvwm became stable :-) Andras -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...
On Fri, 2 Sep 2011 15:01:56 +0100 Alan Cox wrote: fvwm went from hero to zero in a few years Who says? I use it all the time because it doesn't obsessively change out from under me just because it can. Some faction of linux geeks seem to believe that if something isn't radically changed every few months it is dead. I, on the other hand, appreciate software that doesn't keep making me relearn everything when I could be doing useful work instead. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...
Am Freitag, den 02.09.2011, 09:44 -0400 schrieb Darryl L. Pierce:
Great points. If we didn't have change and innovation we'd all still be
using 80x25 monochrome text mode terminals.
It was only a change, no innovation .
http://www.songmeanings.net/songs/view/76280/
--
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obi unixkiste orgThe first one is for beeping all the time,
FreeNode: foo_barthe second destroys the text.
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Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...
On 09/01/2011 04:24 PM, Marko Vojinovic wrote: A lot of people dismissed KDE after the rough time of version 4.0, in a similar way that Gnome3 is now losing its userbase. But today KDE4 is a beautiful, stable and very user-friendly DE. I guess Gnome3 will get back on its feet in the next couple of Fedora versions, but atm KDE is the most polished environment available. ;-) I've been very surprised at how many former KDE 3.x users, are not even looking at KDE again. I suppose it's a great illustration of the once bitten, twice shy effect. -- Ian Pilcher arequip...@gmail.com If you're going to shift my paradigm ... at least buy me dinner first. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...
On 09/02/2011 01:21 AM, Alan Cox wrote: Ease of use. We've replaced option boxes with magic impenetrable extensions and for the rest you have to code them yourself. No. Ease of coding for the devs and to hell with the users. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...
On 09/02/2011 05:51 AM, Andrew Haley wrote: I hope that the GNOME developers will make good use of this feedback. Since when has there been the slightest sign of the Gnome devs giving a rats ass about what mere users think? -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...
On Fri, 02 Sep 2011 09:41:10 -0700 Joe Zeff wrote: Since when has there been the slightest sign of the Gnome devs giving a rats ass about what mere users think? They care enormously about what the imaginary user they have created thinks. Real users, not so much. They can always imagine overwhelmingly greater numbers of imaginary users than real users :-). -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...
On 09/02/2011 05:41 PM, Joe Zeff wrote: On 09/02/2011 05:51 AM, Andrew Haley wrote: I hope that the GNOME developers will make good use of this feedback. Since when has there been the slightest sign of the Gnome devs giving a rats ass about what mere users think? I take your point. However, I think they're human; if you prick them, do they not bleed? Surely they must be a little bit hurt by all these complaints from their users. Andrew. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...
On 09/02/2011 11:03 AM, Andrew Haley wrote: I take your point. However, I think they're human; if you prick them, do they not bleed? Surely they must be a little bit hurt by all these complaints from their users. Yes, they're human, just as Bill Gates and all of his minions are. However, when it comes to the Gnome devs, I've never seen the slightest indication that they even pay attention to what the users want or need, let alone their complaints. This is one of the many reasons I don't use Gnome any more. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...
On Fri, 02 Sep 2011 11:24:24 -0700 Joe Zeff wrote: Yes, they're human, just as Bill Gates and all of his minions are. However, when it comes to the Gnome devs, I've never seen the slightest indication that they even pay attention to what the users want or need, let alone their complaints. For a fun historical read, try this bugzilla: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=136541 -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...
Yes, they're human, just as Bill Gates and all of his minions are. However, when it comes to the Gnome devs, I've never seen the slightest indication that they even pay attention to what the users want or need, let alone their complaints. This is one of the many reasons I don't use Gnome any more. Well in some senses I'm not surprised - I think there is a bit of siege mentality, but they even systematically blocked a proposal to do a user survey recently. One job of any developer is to stop things being done as quick fixes or adjustments to fix things for a specific use case to the detriment of the others. Giving users what they want as opposed to what they need sometimes leads to very bad results. In a lot of cases the users are other programmers but the UI people have an enormous number of folks they interface to very directly. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...
On Fri, 2011-09-02 at 13:43 +0200, Łukasz Jagiełło wrote: Don't forget about people like me who really likes new gnome3. You want change distribution only cause you doesn't like new gnome3. Did you write all your problems at F-15 alpha stage or earlier stage when everything was possible to do ? Guess not, but now you want to back some support only cause you doesn't like it. Of course there are many people who wrote here how they doesn't like gnome3, but did you think when people who like something doesn't special write about it. I like it, too. Yes, there are some rough edges. In fact, there are some things that don't make sense, at all. But, overall I like it. I took a while to get used to it, and I had to change my desktop habits. Now, I like it. I wouldn't say I prefer it to Gnome 2, but I can definitely live with Gnome 3. Ranbir -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...
I love this Fedora-14, and everything Red Hat, but Fedora-15 is a lot like those vile Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, and gosh awful gaudy... Sorry, but to me it just is.. I tried it for a week, and formatted it off the hard drive, and snapped the CD in-two.. And I'm told that F-14 dies in a few months, which I suppose means that there won't be any more security an function updates.. A sad day on planet-earth when F-14 dies... Would someone please tell me.. Why is F-15 such a mess..? The worst thing is the jumbled up desktop.. And there's nothing in right click.. And you can't run two home files simultaneous.. I need that for script and photo editing... You can't remove a desktop image from the file.. You can't delete the top toolbar, nor the other bits of junk, to make a clean desktop... Office isn't in the program options... All in all Fedora-15 is a mess as far as I'm concerned... No offence meant in the slightest to the geniuses and lords at Red Hat.. I love the Linux core people for what they do for humanity, but this F-15 is a very bad change.. I just can't use that horrid F-15 OS.. It fights me.. It feels like it hates me.. It doesn't do what I need an OS to do.. F-15 is a just a big mistake.. You'll see... -- http://www.fastmail.fm - The way an email service should be -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
RANT DETECTED!!!! Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...
On 1 September 2011 20:15, Linda McLeod lindavald...@fastmail.fm wrote: rant snipped! And there's nothing in right click.. And you can't run two home files simultaneous.. I need that for script and photo editing... You can't rant snipped! Yes, you can. Just open another tab or window from file menu in nautilus. -- Hiisi. Registered Linux User #487982. Be counted at: http://counter.li.org/ -- Spandex is a privilege, not a right. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...
On Thu, Sep 01, 2011 at 01:15:25PM -0700, Linda McLeod wrote: snip Try to differentiate: Gnome 3 is not Fedora 15, and vice versa. There are other desktop environments that you can use rather than Gnome 3. -- Darryl L. Pierce, Sr. Software Engineer @ Red Hat, Inc. Delivering value year after year. Red Hat ranks #1 in value among software vendors. http://www.redhat.com/promo/vendor/ pgplLw8hBp6QP.pgp Description: PGP signature -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...
On 09/01/2011 04:15 PM, Linda McLeod wrote: snip You'll see... When Red hat 8 (original) came out, I hated Gnome and wanted Enlightenment back. When Windows 95 came out, I hated it's new UI and wanted 3.1 back. Things change, it's part of computers (and everything else). So when F15 came out, I decided to let go of my old ways of working and try to understand the logic and flow of Gnome 3. Now I love it, and get frustrated back on Gnome2 machines. Also, Linux is all about choice. Gnome 3 is what it is. You are welcome to use KDE, XFCE, Ubuntu's Ubiquity or any one of the numerous other window managers and/or distros. -- Digimer E-Mail: digi...@alteeve.com Freenode handle: digimer Papers and Projects: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org At what point did we forget that the Space Shuttle was, essentially, a program that strapped human beings to an explosion and tried to stab through the sky with fire and math? -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...
On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 11:29 PM, Digimer li...@alteeve.com wrote: On 09/01/2011 04:15 PM, Linda McLeod wrote: snip You'll see... When Red hat 8 (original) came out, I hated Gnome and wanted Enlightenment back. When Windows 95 came out, I hated it's new UI and wanted 3.1 back. Things change, it's part of computers (and everything else). So when F15 came out, I decided to let go of my old ways of working and try to understand the logic and flow of Gnome 3. Now I love it, and get frustrated back on Gnome2 machines. Also, Linux is all about choice. Gnome 3 is what it is. You are welcome to use KDE, XFCE, Ubuntu's Ubiquity or any one of the numerous other window managers and/or distros. When Win95 came out it took me less than 1 day to adapt (btw, do you know that you could use Win3.1-like program manager in Win95). When RH8 came out, it took me less than 1 day to adapt. Same for Gnome2, different versions of KDE/XFCE I tried over time. Gnome3 is the only exception - used it for few weeks and returned to F14. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...
On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 3:50 PM, William Henry whe...@redhat.com wrote: +1. Gotten used to Gnome 3 and now love it. Still trying to figure some things out. (Why has my Xchat no pull down menus anymore? I can't modify anything.) I was considering a not quite rant I'm OK with Gnome 3 after adding a few extensions so I can actually use my Desktop and access my folders from the panel. I only have two things that REALLY bother me at this point: 1. Why are apps/icons being hidden in the menu? I didn't notice until working on a package that had an icon. I used the most appropriate groups from the free desktop spec in creating my desktop file and when I tried to run the app I couldn't find the icon! Not even in Other. The only way I found it was to use the search! I then looked at what all was in /usr/share/applications and found out that LOTS of stuff was being hidden from me. I would like to know the justification for that... 2. Who thought it was a good idea to make someone put their cursor to the upper left corner in order to switch desktops that are all the way on the right? How is that ergonomic? I actually don't mind doing that for switching apps or bringing up the menu so much but to switch desktops it's really irritating. Richard -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...
Would someone please tell me.. Why is F-15 such a mess..? The worst thing is the jumbled up desktop.. The great thing about Linux is that the desktop is not wired into the system. The great thing about Fedora is it supports and packages many desktops. So yum groupinstall Xfce exit to the graphical login, set the desktop type in the options to Xfce, log back in. Xfce is a traditional desktop, complete with sharp edges you can cut yourself on rather than a padded cell like Gnome 3. It is actually more configurable than Gnome 2.x in many ways as well as a lot faster and lighter on memory. If you really want everything to just get out of the way and don't need the user niceness stuff you might also want to look at Enlightement yum search enlightenment Alan -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...
On 09/01/2011 01:54 PM, Pasha R wrote: When Win95 came out it took me less than 1 day to adapt (btw, do you know that you could use Win3.1-like program manager in Win95). When RH8 came out, it took me less than 1 day to adapt. Same for Gnome2, different versions of KDE/XFCE I tried over time. Gnome3 is the only exception - used it for few weeks and returned to F14. F/OSS is all about choice, so kudos! Although I would recommend going to another window manager, e.g. XFCE. By now it's fairly mature and well supported. And as a bonus, it uses a lot less system resources, and feels a lot faster than KDE Gnome. To try, # yum groupinstall Xfce then select Xfce as a session before entering your password -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...
Alan Cox a...@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk writes: The great thing about Fedora is it supports and packages many desktops. Does it support Gnome 2 ? That seems to be what everyone who complains about Gnome 3 actually wants... -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...
On Thu, 2011-09-01 at 16:01 -0500, Richard Shaw wrote: 2. Who thought it was a good idea to make someone put their cursor to the upper left corner in order to switch desktops that are all the way on the right? How is that ergonomic? I actually don't mind doing that for switching apps or bringing up the menu so much but to switch desktops it's really irritating. Richard gnome-shell-extension-righthotcorner-1.0-1.fc15.noarch -- Matthew Saltzman Clemson University Mathematical Sciences mjs AT clemson DOT edu -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...
On Thu, 2011-09-01 at 23:54 +0300, Pasha R wrote: On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 11:29 PM, Digimer li...@alteeve.com wrote: On 09/01/2011 04:15 PM, Linda McLeod wrote: snip You'll see... When Red hat 8 (original) came out, I hated Gnome and wanted Enlightenment back. When Windows 95 came out, I hated it's new UI and wanted 3.1 back. Things change, it's part of computers (and everything else). So when F15 came out, I decided to let go of my old ways of working and try to understand the logic and flow of Gnome 3. Now I love it, and get frustrated back on Gnome2 machines. Also, Linux is all about choice. Gnome 3 is what it is. You are welcome to use KDE, XFCE, Ubuntu's Ubiquity or any one of the numerous other window managers and/or distros. When Win95 came out it took me less than 1 day to adapt (btw, do you know that you could use Win3.1-like program manager in Win95). When RH8 came out, it took me less than 1 day to adapt. Same for Gnome2, different versions of KDE/XFCE I tried over time. Gnome3 is the only exception - used it for few weeks and returned to F14. I found a quick orientation at gnome.org. Saved me a lot of frustration and helped me adapt much more quickly. Not sure it's love yet, but I'm comfortable working with it. Also, there are a bunch of extensions (and more coming. I'm sure) to help overcome some of the annoyances. yum list gnome-shell-\* to get a list of the ones already supported. -- Matthew Saltzman Clemson University Mathematical Sciences mjs AT clemson DOT edu -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...
On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 4:18 PM, Matthew Saltzman m...@clemson.edu wrote: On Thu, 2011-09-01 at 16:01 -0500, Richard Shaw wrote: 2. Who thought it was a good idea to make someone put their cursor to the upper left corner in order to switch desktops that are all the way on the right? How is that ergonomic? I actually don't mind doing that for switching apps or bringing up the menu so much but to switch desktops it's really irritating. gnome-shell-extension-righthotcorner-1.0-1.fc15.noarch Installed! Thanks, Richard -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...
On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 11:11 PM, Alan Cox a...@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk wrote: Would someone please tell me.. Why is F-15 such a mess..? The worst thing is the jumbled up desktop.. The great thing about Linux is that the desktop is not wired into the system. The great thing about Fedora is it supports and packages many desktops. So yum groupinstall Xfce exit to the graphical login, set the desktop type in the options to Xfce, log back in. Xfce is a traditional desktop, complete with sharp edges you can cut yourself on rather than a padded cell like Gnome 3. It is actually more configurable than Gnome 2.x in many ways as well as a lot faster and lighter on memory. If you really want everything to just get out of the way and don't need the user niceness stuff you might also want to look at Enlightement yum search enlightenment And then there is also KDE, not as lightweight as XFCE, but very powerful and very configurable. A lot of people dismissed KDE after the rough time of version 4.0, in a similar way that Gnome3 is now losing its userbase. But today KDE4 is a beautiful, stable and very user-friendly DE. I guess Gnome3 will get back on its feet in the next couple of Fedora versions, but atm KDE is the most polished environment available. ;-) :-) Marko -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...
On 09/01/2011 02:15 PM, Konstantin Svist wrote: On 09/01/2011 01:54 PM, Pasha R wrote: When Win95 came out it took me less than 1 day to adapt (btw, do you know that you could use Win3.1-like program manager in Win95). When RH8 came out, it took me less than 1 day to adapt. Same for Gnome2, different versions of KDE/XFCE I tried over time. Gnome3 is the only exception - used it for few weeks and returned to F14. F/OSS is all about choice, so kudos! Although I would recommend going to another window manager, e.g. XFCE. By now it's fairly mature and well supported. And as a bonus, it uses a lot less system resources, and feels a lot faster than KDE Gnome. To try, # yum groupinstall Xfce then select Xfce as a session before entering your password Whoops, didn't notice you've tried XFCE already :) -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...
On 09/01/2011 02:18 PM, Matthew Saltzman wrote: gnome-shell-extension-righthotcorner-1.0-1.fc15.noarch Why do you have to install an extension to make such a small change? Shouldn't this be configurable? -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...
On 09/01/2011 04:11 PM, Alan Cox wrote: Would someone please tell me.. Why is F-15 such a mess..? The worst thing is the jumbled up desktop.. The great thing about Linux is that the desktop is not wired into the system. The great thing about Fedora is it supports and packages many desktops. So yum groupinstall Xfce exit to the graphical login, set the desktop type in the options to Xfce, log back in. Xfce is a traditional desktop, complete with sharp edges you can cut yourself on rather than a padded cell like Gnome 3. It is actually more configurable than Gnome 2.x in many ways as well as a lot faster and lighter on memory. If you really want everything to just get out of the way and don't need the user niceness stuff you might also want to look at Enlightement yum search enlightenment Alan Here's my desktop, using XFCE and Avant Window Navigator. I stopped using Gnome Shell not because I don't like it but because it's unstable on my system. https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/el89OuwhilZBUiv4E62nkA?feat=directlink -- -- Steve -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...
2011/9/1 Alan Cox a...@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk: Would someone please tell me.. Why is F-15 such a mess..? The worst thing is the jumbled up desktop.. The great thing about Linux is that the desktop is not wired into the system. The great thing about Fedora is it supports and packages many desktops. So yum groupinstall Xfce exit to the graphical login, set the desktop type in the options to Xfce, log back in. Xfce is a traditional desktop, complete with sharp edges you can cut yourself on rather than a padded cell like Gnome 3. It is actually more configurable than Gnome 2.x in many ways as well as a lot faster and lighter on memory. If you really want everything to just get out of the way and don't need the user niceness stuff you might also want to look at Enlightement yum search enlightenment Alan e17 will be removed from f16 because of a lack of maintainer for it unfortunately (afaik it has been orphaned). because of that id recommend at this point aswell to try xfce and/or lxde for a serious work environment. kind regards, Rudolf Kastl -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...
On Thu, 01 Sep 2011 17:16:54 -0400 DJ Delorie d...@delorie.com wrote: Alan Cox a...@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk writes: The great thing about Fedora is it supports and packages many desktops. Does it support Gnome 2 ? That seems to be what everyone who complains about Gnome 3 actually wants... But none of them enough to maintain it apparently. Nothing in Fedora magically appears - someone has to maintain it. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...
On 09/01/2011 03:35 PM, Alan Cox wrote: But none of them enough to maintain it apparently. Nothing in Fedora magically appears - someone has to maintain it. Maintaining a package takes specific programming skills and the time to do the work. If Fedora had been able to fork Gnome and keep a Gnome 2 version alive I'd have used it but I haven't done any programming in fifteen years, and when I did, it wasn't on that type of program. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...
On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 18:03, Rudolf Kastl che...@gmail.com wrote: 2011/9/1 Alan Cox a...@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk: If you really want everything to just get out of the way and don't need the user niceness stuff you might also want to look at Enlightement yum search enlightenment Alan e17 will be removed from f16 because of a lack of maintainer for it unfortunately (afaik it has been orphaned). because of that id recommend at this point aswell to try xfce and/or lxde for a serious work environment. Nooo! I've been a hard-core Enlightenment user for years. I can't imagine having to give it up! I love that it doesn't auto-mount every disk I plug in! I love the Ctrl-Alt-Ins to get a new terminal. I love the low system resources. Man, I'm going to miss it... MJ -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...
On 09/01/2011 02:18 PM, Matthew Saltzman wrote: On Thu, 2011-09-01 at 16:01 -0500, Richard Shaw wrote: 2. Who thought it was a good idea to make someone put their cursor to the upper left corner in order to switch desktops that are all the way on the right? How is that ergonomic? I actually don't mind doing that for switching apps or bringing up the menu so much but to switch desktops it's really irritating. Richard gnome-shell-extension-righthotcorner-1.0-1.fc15.noarch Apropos: The designer who put the cursor on the upper left corner is a 'lefty' and felt justified. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...
where'd the OP go? On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 8:26 PM, Daniel B. Thurman d...@cdkkt.com wrote: On 09/01/2011 02:18 PM, Matthew Saltzman wrote: On Thu, 2011-09-01 at 16:01 -0500, Richard Shaw wrote: 2. Who thought it was a good idea to make someone put their cursor to the upper left corner in order to switch desktops that are all the way on the right? How is that ergonomic? I actually don't mind doing that for switching apps or bringing up the menu so much but to switch desktops it's really irritating. Richard gnome-shell-extension-righthotcorner-1.0-1.fc15.noarch Apropos: The designer who put the cursor on the upper left corner is a 'lefty' and felt justified. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...
On Thu, 2011-09-01 at 14:34 -0700, Joe Zeff wrote: On 09/01/2011 02:18 PM, Matthew Saltzman wrote: gnome-shell-extension-righthotcorner-1.0-1.fc15.noarch Why do you have to install an extension to make such a small change? Shouldn't this be configurable? Think of it as a different configuration mechanism. -- Matthew Saltzman Clemson University Mathematical Sciences mjs AT clemson DOT edu -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...
On 09/01/2011 06:04 PM, Mark W. Jeanmougin wrote: On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 18:03, Rudolf Kastlche...@gmail.com wrote: 2011/9/1 Alan Coxa...@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk: If you really want everything to just get out of the way and don't need the user niceness stuff you might also want to look at Enlightement yum search enlightenment Alan e17 will be removed from f16 because of a lack of maintainer for it unfortunately (afaik it has been orphaned). because of that id recommend at this point aswell to try xfce and/or lxde for a serious work environment. Nooo! I've been a hard-core Enlightenment user for years. I can't imagine having to give it up! I love that it doesn't auto-mount every disk I plug in! I love the Ctrl-Alt-Ins to get a new terminal. I love the low system resources. Man, I'm going to miss it... MJ I love it too! http://bodhilinux.com - The best E17 distro John -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...
On Thu, 01 Sep 2011 22:11:57 +0100, Alan Cox wrote: Would someone please tell me.. Why is F-15 such a mess..? The worst thing is the jumbled up desktop.. The great thing about Linux is that the desktop is not wired into the system. The great thing about Fedora is it supports and packages many desktops. So yum groupinstall Xfce exit to the graphical login, set the desktop type in the options to Xfce, log back in. Certainly there are alternatives. Certainly we can find our way in Gnome3 - eventually - for we are not retarded, and certainly we can decide whether to use it or not. But it's a sin to take something good - granted, possibly not perfect - and turn it into something unusable for so many people. Why did the UI have to change to something that looks and feels like a giant smart phone? Integrated chat and messaging? Where did that come from? Thank God you guys didn't integrate that into the kernel! I can't find much information about the gnome3 developers, but they must be generation Facebook - it's the stay connected philosophy that I see in gnome3. There's more to computing than that. I wish someone from the old guard found the time and energy to step up and straighten things up. I know, I know, different times, different priorities. The gnome2 UI was good, only the internals would have to be changed as needed. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
