Re: Modern Dual-Boot Setup Prcoedure (Dell XPS)

[Michael Hennebry]

On Thu, 7 Dec 2023, Samuel Sieb wrote:

Usually there's a key you can press to get a boot selection menu so you can 
one-time boot from the USB without having to change the boot order.


In my experiencem, external drives come before internal drives anyway.
I've been bitten by this.

--
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reasons* why it is necessary to sacrifice a young
goat to your SCSI chain now and then."   --   John Woods
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Re: Modern Dual-Boot Setup Prcoedure (Dell XPS)

[Felix Miata]

George N. White III composed on 2023-12-07 19:38 (UTC-0400):

> Samuel Sieb wrote:

>> Usually there's a key you can press to get a boot selection menu so you
>> can one-time boot from the USB without having to change the boot order.

> F12 on my Dell systems.  On my desktop the monitor is slow to start (using a
> cheap USBC to HDMI adapter) so I often miss the window when F12 is active.

I have at least one Dell with same issue. Dell is not my only source of such
trouble. I just don't bother waiting before hitting F12 (or F2). I repeat 
hitting
it each second or so until I see ack that menu or setup have been triggered. If 
I
miss, C-A-D usually beats init starting to trigger a reset.
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Re: Modern Dual-Boot Setup Prcoedure (Dell XPS)

[George N. White III]

On Thu, Dec 7, 2023 at 6:22 PM Samuel Sieb  wrote:

>
> Usually there's a key you can press to get a boot selection menu so you
> can one-time boot from the USB without having to change the boot order.
>

F12 on my Dell systems.  On my desktop the monitor is slow to start (using
a
cheap USBC to HDMI adapter) so I often miss the window when F12 is active.
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Re: Modern Dual-Boot Setup Prcoedure (Dell XPS)

[Samuel Sieb]

On 12/7/23 13:39, Tim Evans wrote:
o    Go into the PC BIOS and disable "Secure Boot." (Apparently, there 
is a workaround that allows you to skip this, but I didn't explore it.)


Did you try without doing this?  It should just work.

o    While in the BIOS, change the boot device order to put your thumb 
drive first (I had the thumb drive inserted when I went into the BIOS 
and it offered it as a boot choice--again, this was Dell's BIOS, so YMMV.


Usually there's a key you can press to get a boot selection menu so you 
can one-time boot from the USB without having to change the boot order.

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Re: Modern Dual-Boot Setup Prcoedure (Dell XPS)

[Peter Boy]

> Am 07.12.2023 um 22:39 schrieb Tim Evans :
> 
> Closing the loop on this. Thanks to everyone who replied.  This turned out to 
> be fairly simple, and everyone who replied had something good to add.

Hi Tim and all participants here,

This thread is a permanent and recurring topic. Wouldn't it be useful and 
beneficial to transfer this discussion and your summary into a "Quick Docs" 
document (https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/quick-docs/)? Then it would be 
easier for Fedora users to find and easier to upgrade to the next Fedora 
version. 

Could you imagine doing this or working on it together with me? 

(It’s easy using the pagure web based editor)


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https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Pboy
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Timezone: CET (UTC+1) / CEST (UTC+2)

Fedora Server Edition Working Group member
Fedora Docs team contributor and board member
Java developer and enthusiast



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Re: Modern Dual-Boot Setup Prcoedure (Dell XPS)

[Tim Evans]

On 12/2/23 15:48, Tim Evans wrote:
Brand New Dell XPS 15 coming tomorrow, to replace my venerable Lenovo 
T530.  (Looking forward to something a little lighter to lug around.)


It's been 10 years since I set the T530 up to dual-boot Fedora and Windows.

I'm sure I can figure out how to reduce the size of the Windows 
partition to make space for Fedora, but am unsure of the process for 
current PC BIOS and grub setup for dual boot. Or is the Fedora installer 
smart enough to handle it for me?


Are there docs for this?  Thanks.



Closing the loop on this. Thanks to everyone who replied.  This turned 
out to be fairly simple, and everyone who replied had something good to add.


Process is pretty straightforward:

On Windows:

o	Disable Fast Boot (Control Panel->Hardware and Sound->Power 
Options->System Settings).  This makes it easier for you to get into the 
PC's BIOS, although I had no trouble on the Dell XPS.


o	Shrink the size of the PC's C: drive (assuming you have just one 
drive). Use the Window Disk Management app.


o	Download the Fedora ISO and burn it to a thumb drive using MediaWriter 
or another similar tool like 'Rufus.' Be sure the set the "Target 
System" to "BIOS or UEFI" and the partion scheme to "MBR."


o	Go into the PC BIOS and disable "Secure Boot." (Apparently, there is a 
workaround that allows you to skip this, but I didn't explore it.)


o	While in the BIOS, change the boot device order to put your thumb 
drive first (I had the thumb drive inserted when I went into the BIOS 
and it offered it as a boot choice--again, this was Dell's BIOS, so YMMV.


Once this is done, reboot the PC with the bootable thumb drive in place 
and install Fedora. (I walked through the manaul partition screens to 
make sure the Windows install wouldn't be touched, but could have just 
accepted all the defaults, as it Just Worked.


As noted, all of these items were mentioned by one or another of you in 
your replies; thanks, again.


I did find a number of online doc's for dual booting, as well as several 
You-Tube video tutorials.  The one I followd most closely was at: 
https://www.techhut.tv/how-to-dual-boot-fedora-and-windows-11/

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Re: Modern Dual-Boot Setup Prcoedure (Dell XPS)

[George N. White III]

On Sun, Dec 3, 2023 at 8:35 AM Neal Becker  wrote:

>
> About 1 yr back I installed fedora onto my wife's dell laptop with windows
> 10 for
>
dual boot.  Despite significant and lengthy efforts to follow online guides
> to get
>
windows to free up space I never got that to work - windows never gave up
> the
>
space.  In the end installed into a spare 2G partition instead.
>

At work we had a "mission critical" application that was developed on
IRIX64 and
ported to linux and macOS, but not Windows.  Since Windows was the
"enterprise
standard" I've configured many systems for dual boot.  That sometimes
required moving files out of the primary Windows partition to a network
server or
removable drive to allow shrinking the Windows filesystem.   These days,
enterprise
Windows used encrypted drives managed by IT.  The "mission critical"
application
runs in WSL (and users realized that many other applications run faster in
WSL
than they do in Windows).

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Re: Modern Dual-Boot Setup Prcoedure (Dell XPS)

[Neal Becker]

On Sun, Dec 3, 2023 at 7:00 AM George N. White III  wrote:

> On Sat, Dec 2, 2023 at 4:48 PM Tim Evans  wrote:
>
>> Brand New Dell XPS 15 coming tomorrow, to replace my venerable Lenovo
>> T530.  (Looking forward to something a little lighter to lug around.)
>>
>> It's been 10 years since I set the T530 up to dual-boot Fedora and
>> Windows.
>>
>> I'm sure I can figure out how to reduce the size of the Windows
>> partition to make space for Fedora, but am unsure of the process for
>> current PC BIOS and grub setup for dual boot. Or is the Fedora installer
>> smart enough to handle it for me?
>>
>> Are there docs for this?  Thanks.
>>
>
> You should check the LHWDB  for issues
> encountered by
> linux users (sometimes there are comments suggesting workarounds.
>
> You should use Windows tools to 1) update device firmware and 2) create
> "free space"
> for linux.  Dell has the "SupportAssist" app you should run immediately to
> update
> firmware and verify that everything works properly.   On my Dell I need to
> use F2 to
> get to the "BIOS" configuration, and "F12" to get a list of boot options.
> The problem is
> that the system starts faster than my monitor (using DP to HDMI adapter
> cable) wakes
> up so on cold boot I have to guess about the timing to hit a function
> key.  I usually end
> up in Windows a couple times before I get into the BIOS screen I want.
>
> The Windows tools have changed with recent updates to Windows 11
> as I discovered when installing F39 on a Dell desktop.  I just converted
> an existing linux partition to free space so didn't need to shrink the
> Windows
> partition.  A common mistake is allowing Windows assign a drive letter to
> the free space -- the Fedora installer looks for "free space".
>
> About 1 yr back I installed fedora onto my wife's dell laptop with windows
10 for dual boot.  Despite significant and lengthy efforts to follow online
guides to get windows to free up space I never got that to work - windows
never gave up the space.  In the end installed into a spare 2G partition
instead.
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Re: Modern Dual-Boot Setup Prcoedure (Dell XPS)

[George N. White III]

On Sat, Dec 2, 2023 at 4:48 PM Tim Evans  wrote:

> Brand New Dell XPS 15 coming tomorrow, to replace my venerable Lenovo
> T530.  (Looking forward to something a little lighter to lug around.)
>
> It's been 10 years since I set the T530 up to dual-boot Fedora and Windows.
>
> I'm sure I can figure out how to reduce the size of the Windows
> partition to make space for Fedora, but am unsure of the process for
> current PC BIOS and grub setup for dual boot. Or is the Fedora installer
> smart enough to handle it for me?
>
> Are there docs for this?  Thanks.
>

You should check the LHWDB  for issues
encountered by
linux users (sometimes there are comments suggesting workarounds.

You should use Windows tools to 1) update device firmware and 2) create
"free space"
for linux.  Dell has the "SupportAssist" app you should run immediately to
update
firmware and verify that everything works properly.   On my Dell I need to
use F2 to
get to the "BIOS" configuration, and "F12" to get a list of boot options.
The problem is
that the system starts faster than my monitor (using DP to HDMI adapter
cable) wakes
up so on cold boot I have to guess about the timing to hit a function key.
I usually end
up in Windows a couple times before I get into the BIOS screen I want.

The Windows tools have changed with recent updates to Windows 11
as I discovered when installing F39 on a Dell desktop.  I just converted
an existing linux partition to free space so didn't need to shrink the
Windows
partition.  A common mistake is allowing Windows assign a drive letter to
the free space -- the Fedora installer looks for "free space".

-- 
George N. White III
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Re: Modern Dual-Boot Setup Prcoedure (Dell XPS)

[Felix Miata]

Samuel Sieb composed on 2023-12-02 13:04 (UTC-0800):

Tim Evans wrote:

>> Brand New Dell XPS 15 coming tomorrow, to replace my venerable Lenovo 
>> T530.  (Looking forward to something a little lighter to lug around.)

>> It's been 10 years since I set the T530 up to dual-boot Fedora and Windows.

>> I'm sure I can figure out how to reduce the size of the Windows 
>> partition to make space for Fedora, but am unsure of the process for 
>> current PC BIOS and grub setup for dual boot. Or is the Fedora installer 
>> smart enough to handle it for me?

> I suggest using the windows disk tool to shrink the windows partition. 
>  From there the Fedora installer can handle the rest.

What I would do first is make sure Windows boots and works as expected.

#2: Remove the disk and put it in a safe place for reinstallation if a warranty
issue appears.

#3: Put in a different disk and install Fedora.

#4: install Windows in a VM.

> If you can't get into the BIOS setup or boot selection, you might have 
> to go through windows to get there and enable it.  Disabling fast boot 
> might be necessary as well.
-- 
Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion,
based on faith, not based on science.

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata
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Re: Modern Dual-Boot Setup Prcoedure (Dell XPS)

[Chris Adams]

Once upon a time, Samuel Sieb  said:
> On 12/2/23 13:02, Chris Adams wrote:
> >Also, after installing Fedora (which made GRUB the default UEFI boot
> >option), booting Windows from GRUB gave an error because of the
> >Bitlocker disk encryption and measured boot.  I had to enter the key
> >(logged in to my mandatory MS account to get it, I think you can also
> >copy it to a USB drive from within Windows first) to get it to boot, and
> >then it adjusted the security to handle booting from GRUB (with no error
> >or key entry) after that.
> 
> I thought Windows was no longer added to the grub menu because of
> this. You're expected to use the UEFI boot menu instead.

Like I said, this is what I saw (with Fedora 39).
-- 
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Re: Modern Dual-Boot Setup Prcoedure (Dell XPS)

[Samuel Sieb]

On 12/2/23 13:02, Chris Adams wrote:

Also, after installing Fedora (which made GRUB the default UEFI boot
option), booting Windows from GRUB gave an error because of the
Bitlocker disk encryption and measured boot.  I had to enter the key
(logged in to my mandatory MS account to get it, I think you can also
copy it to a USB drive from within Windows first) to get it to boot, and
then it adjusted the security to handle booting from GRUB (with no error
or key entry) after that.


I thought Windows was no longer added to the grub menu because of this. 
You're expected to use the UEFI boot menu instead.

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Re: Modern Dual-Boot Setup Prcoedure (Dell XPS)

[Samuel Sieb]

On 12/2/23 12:48, Tim Evans wrote:
Brand New Dell XPS 15 coming tomorrow, to replace my venerable Lenovo 
T530.  (Looking forward to something a little lighter to lug around.)


It's been 10 years since I set the T530 up to dual-boot Fedora and Windows.

I'm sure I can figure out how to reduce the size of the Windows 
partition to make space for Fedora, but am unsure of the process for 
current PC BIOS and grub setup for dual boot. Or is the Fedora installer 
smart enough to handle it for me?


I suggest using the windows disk tool to shrink the windows partition. 
From there the Fedora installer can handle the rest.


If you can't get into the BIOS setup or boot selection, you might have 
to go through windows to get there and enable it.  Disabling fast boot 
might be necessary as well.

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Re: Modern Dual-Boot Setup Prcoedure (Dell XPS)

[Chris Adams]

Once upon a time, Tim Evans  said:
> Brand New Dell XPS 15 coming tomorrow, to replace my venerable
> Lenovo T530.  (Looking forward to something a little lighter to lug
> around.)
> 
> It's been 10 years since I set the T530 up to dual-boot Fedora and Windows.
> 
> I'm sure I can figure out how to reduce the size of the Windows
> partition to make space for Fedora, but am unsure of the process for
> current PC BIOS and grub setup for dual boot. Or is the Fedora
> installer smart enough to handle it for me?

I just got a new Thinkpad and went through this.  The only extra step I
had for installing Fedora was that the UEFI settings had the "Microsoft
3rd-party OS" certificate for Secure Boot disabled by default - went
into the settings and enabled that, and then the Fedora installer would
run.

Also, after installing Fedora (which made GRUB the default UEFI boot
option), booting Windows from GRUB gave an error because of the
Bitlocker disk encryption and measured boot.  I had to enter the key
(logged in to my mandatory MS account to get it, I think you can also
copy it to a USB drive from within Windows first) to get it to boot, and
then it adjusted the security to handle booting from GRUB (with no error
or key entry) after that.

-- 
Chris Adams 
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Re: Modern Dual-Boot Setup Prcoedure (Dell XPS)

[Patrick Dupre via users]

>
> Brand New Dell XPS 15 coming tomorrow, to replace my venerable Lenovo
> T530.  (Looking forward to something a little lighter to lug around.)
>
> It's been 10 years since I set the T530 up to dual-boot Fedora and Windows.
>
> I'm sure I can figure out how to reduce the size of the Windows
> partition to make space for Fedora, but am unsure of the process for
> current PC BIOS and grub setup for dual boot. Or is the Fedora installer
> smart enough to handle it for me?
>
> Are there docs for this?  Thanks.

In my opinion, first thing to do
fdisk
and/or gparted
from a live distribution (like fedora-live or gparted-live)
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Modern Dual-Boot Setup Prcoedure (Dell XPS)

[Tim Evans]

Brand New Dell XPS 15 coming tomorrow, to replace my venerable Lenovo 
T530.  (Looking forward to something a little lighter to lug around.)


It's been 10 years since I set the T530 up to dual-boot Fedora and Windows.

I'm sure I can figure out how to reduce the size of the Windows 
partition to make space for Fedora, but am unsure of the process for 
current PC BIOS and grub setup for dual boot. Or is the Fedora installer 
smart enough to handle it for me?


Are there docs for this?  Thanks.
--
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