Re: Most system update requires system reboot or session restart

[James Hogarth]

On 29 December 2016 at 18:34, Javier Perez  wrote:
> I remember reading years back about solutions that allowed Kernel upgrade
> without reboot. Ksplice and Kpatch comes to mind. Whatever happened to them?
>
>

The facilities arrived in kernel 4.0 with Red Hat and Suse working
together with kpatch and kgraft standardising on common infrastructure
for it there (yes Oracle sat out the party with their ksplice).

With regards to Fedora specifically the kernel team commented on this
at the time.

What you need to be aware of is that live patching has many
limitations (eg can't change data structures but just how functions
operate) do it's targeted at very small and specific bug (security)
fixes and can't handle generic kernel upgrades.

This is especially important seeing as the Fedora kernel team will
rebase to new major revisions of the kernel within the Fedora
lifecycle rather than keeping to a specific revision with patches.

As a result it's not really worth the time for them to test the rather
extensive matrix that would be required should live patching the
kernel be supported.

Have a read of this:

http://jwboyer.livejournal.com/50232.html

And yes I know that Oracle permits non-commercial use of ksplice on
Fedora ... but given the hesitation by the Fedora kernel team on the
tech is it really worth it?

Of course this only covers the kernel and not any libraries like glibc
which really do need a full system reboot to avoid mixed libraries
hanging around.
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Re: Most system update requires system reboot or session restart

[Javier Perez]

I remember reading years back about solutions that allowed Kernel upgrade
without reboot. Ksplice and Kpatch comes to mind. Whatever happened to them?

On Dec 21, 2016 07:43, "Matthew Miller"  wrote:

> On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 08:06:27PM -0500, Tom Horsley wrote:
> > > Neither systemd nor dnf are to blame -- but wayland is a lot more
> > > fragile in this regard under the current design.
> > I'm not using wayland, so that isn't it.
>
> It can happen in X, too, it's just that there it's more likely that
> something which crashes GNOME shell doesn't bring down the whole
> system.
>
> --
> Matthew Miller
> 
> Fedora Project Leader
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Re: Most system update requires system reboot or session restart

[Matthew Miller]

On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 08:06:27PM -0500, Tom Horsley wrote:
> > Neither systemd nor dnf are to blame -- but wayland is a lot more
> > fragile in this regard under the current design.
> I'm not using wayland, so that isn't it.

It can happen in X, too, it's just that there it's more likely that
something which crashes GNOME shell doesn't bring down the whole
system.

-- 
Matthew Miller

Fedora Project Leader
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Re: Most system update requires system reboot or session restart

[Sudhir Khanger]

On Wednesday 21 December 2016 2:37:41 AM IST Rahul Sundaram wrote:
> You aren't in a rock and hard place though.   Restarting is not strictly
> necessary.  It is a good idea however.  You can also choose to use a more
> conservative distribution and apply just security updates.  C.f 
> RHEL/CentOS.

I am aware of other options. I just wanted to make sure that I am not missing 
anything.

I <3 Fedora Plasma desktop. I have been using it since F19. I have been in 
fact upgrading from one version to next for 2 years now. AKA it's already 
rolling for me. Fedora Plasma desktop strikes a nice balance for me that is 
fresh packages with no setup time requirements.

I will think about it. I may remove the tracer plugin and just like everyone 
else ignore the warnings. Probably everyone on Fedora, Arch, Slackware, 
Gentoo, and other distros are already doing that.

-- 
Regards,
Sudhir Khanger,
sudhirkhanger.com.
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Re: Most system update requires system reboot or session restart

[Joe Zeff]

On 12/20/2016 10:50 PM, Tim wrote:

Programmers like the easiest solution of doing what they want, and let
the user put up with the consequences.  Users prefer things to be less
intrusive.


Correction: bad programmers do that and arrogant programmers assume that 
everybody is going to want to do things their way so there's no reason 
to make it possible to configure things.  Good programmers try to find 
out what people really want and do what they can to provide it.

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Re: Most system update requires system reboot or session restart

[Tim]

Sudhir Khanger:
>> On my weekly update I notice that I am almost always required to either
>> restart the session or reboot the system. Both of these options are
>> unacceptable because they require closing 10-15 apps and restarting
>> them. That's unnecessary hassle and loss in productivity.

Bryon Adams:
> You don't HAVE to reboot, but some of the updated applications require 
> unloading an loading again. Wouldn't the easy solution be to reboot once 
> you're done with work for the week? I personally don't know why people 
> leave their computers on forever if it's not a server but that's just 
> me. I turn my computer off when I'm done with it.

The "easy solution" always depends on who's point of view it is.
Programmers like the easiest solution of doing what they want, and let
the user put up with the consequences.  Users prefer things to be less
intrusive.

I'm used to having to reboot for things like kernels and base things for
your computer (graphics, etc.), but not for anything else.  Having to
reboot is a time waster, shut down isn't that quick, start-up is longer,
and the interruptions to what I'm doing are annoying.

I'm used to not having to reboot for ordinary software.  I'm used to it
carrying on working during an update, though firefox was one exception
(it usually grinds to a halt and requires quitting and restarting).  I'm
used to the idea that if a program has been updated that I'm in the
middle of using, that it's going to need quitting and restarting to use
the new updated version, but not actually having to do that until I
want.  e.g. I've carried on word processing while the software is
getting updated.

It's one of the major advantages I've had with Linux against other
operating systems, that updates will happen in the background, and
rarely with any annoying consequences.  Windows, on the other hand, and
even Mac, I'm annoyingly used to any update cycle wasting an hour or
more of my time, as the computer is either too thrashed by the update
process to use it for my own purposes at the same time, or highly likely
to need rebooting while I'm in the middle of doing things.  Sometimes,
it'll unceremoniously reboot, while I'm doing things.  And there'll be
another prolonged pause while it boots up that you can't do anything
with it while it fiddles with itself.  Once I watched the entire film,
and extras, of Dr Zhivago (a damn long film), while Windows did its
business.  The computer was unusable during almost the entirety of that
process, and you wouldn't want to try and use it for the few minutes
that it let you.

Leaving that to some time I don't want to use the computer, presumes
that I have the spare time to babysit the computer, while I have other
things to do.

Linux is *not* Windows, don't go down that route.

-- 
[tim@localhost ~]$ uname -rsvp
Linux 3.9.10-100.fc17.x86_64 #1 SMP Sun Jul 14 01:31:27 UTC 2013 x86_64

Boilerplate:  All mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted, there is
no point trying to privately email me, I only get to see the messages
posted to the mailing list.

The internet, your opportunity to learn from other peoples' mistakes.


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Re: Most system update requires system reboot or session restart

[Ralf Corsepius]

On 12/21/2016 02:00 AM, Kevin Fenzi wrote:

On Tue, 20 Dec 2016 15:39:08 -0800
Joe Zeff  wrote:


On 12/20/2016 03:27 PM, Matthew Miller wrote:

Depends on which part.

You can use dnf repoquery to list duplicates, leaf packages (now
"unneeded", which I don't think is an improvement in clarity, but
whatever), orphans ("extras", and ditto), unsatisfied deps (formerly
"problems", now "unsatisfied" — that one is an improvement).

The cleandupes functionality is now "dnf remove --duplicates".


That's good to know.  Somehow, upgrades seem to hang on this system
(but not my laptop) leaving me unable to start a GUI, and with so
many dupes that I'd have to get a list of them (package-cleanup
--dupes | grep
fcXX> dupes.txt with XX representing the older disty because it
fcXX> listed
both sets) and then clean them up a few at a time by hand.  Not the
most pleasant task, but doable as long as I've got a simple way to
get that list.


FYI, If you are looking for a particular dnf command that does something
yum used to do the first place to look is 'man yum2dnf'
(or https://dnf.readthedocs.io/en/latest/cli_vs_yum.html )


While we're at it:

No idea, what "dnf repoquery --unneeded" does, but it by no means is an 
equivalent to "package-cleanup --leaves":


# package-cleanup --leaves | wc -l
...
40

# dnf repoquery --unneeded
[nothing]

It's one of the reasons I still have package-cleanup installed.

Ralf

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Re: Most system update requires system reboot or session restart

[Rahul Sundaram]

Hi

On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 7:09 PM Sudhir Khanger

>
>
> I think the bottom line is that you are caught between a rock and a hard
> place. Either take the productivity hit by updating and restarting or take
> the
> security hit by not updating.
>

You aren't in a rock and hard place though.   Restarting is not strictly
necessary.  It is a good idea however.  You can also choose to use a more
conservative distribution and apply just security updates.  C.f
 RHEL/CentOS.

Rahul
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Re: Most system update requires system reboot or session restart

[Tom Horsley]

On Tue, 20 Dec 2016 18:23:25 -0500
Matthew Miller wrote:

> Neither systemd nor dnf are to blame -- but wayland is a lot more
> fragile in this regard under the current design.

I'm not using wayland, so that isn't it.
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Re: Most system update requires system reboot or session restart

[Kevin Fenzi]

On Tue, 20 Dec 2016 15:39:08 -0800
Joe Zeff  wrote:

> On 12/20/2016 03:27 PM, Matthew Miller wrote:
> > Depends on which part.
> >
> > You can use dnf repoquery to list duplicates, leaf packages (now
> > "unneeded", which I don't think is an improvement in clarity, but
> > whatever), orphans ("extras", and ditto), unsatisfied deps (formerly
> > "problems", now "unsatisfied" — that one is an improvement).
> >
> > The cleandupes functionality is now "dnf remove --duplicates".  
> 
> That's good to know.  Somehow, upgrades seem to hang on this system
> (but not my laptop) leaving me unable to start a GUI, and with so
> many dupes that I'd have to get a list of them (package-cleanup
> --dupes | grep 
> fcXX> dupes.txt with XX representing the older disty because it
> fcXX> listed   
> both sets) and then clean them up a few at a time by hand.  Not the
> most pleasant task, but doable as long as I've got a simple way to
> get that list.

FYI, If you are looking for a particular dnf command that does something
yum used to do the first place to look is 'man yum2dnf' 
(or https://dnf.readthedocs.io/en/latest/cli_vs_yum.html )

kevin


pgpDcZvYppqZ1.pgp
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
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Re: Most system update requires system reboot or session restart

[Sudhir Khanger]

On Wednesday 21 December 2016 7:02:43 AM IST Ed Greshko wrote:
> The bottom line is if someone feels compelled to follow the suggestion that
> you *should* reboot or that "should" is equivalent to *must* then just
> don't apply updates until ready to take the necessary action to *fully*
> apply them.

I think the bottom line is that you are caught between a rock and a hard 
place. Either take the productivity hit by updating and restarting or take the 
security hit by not updating.

-- 
Regards,
Sudhir Khanger,
sudhirkhanger.com.
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Re: Most system update requires system reboot or session restart

[Joe Zeff]

On 12/20/2016 03:27 PM, Matthew Miller wrote:

Depends on which part.

You can use dnf repoquery to list duplicates, leaf packages (now
"unneeded", which I don't think is an improvement in clarity, but
whatever), orphans ("extras", and ditto), unsatisfied deps (formerly
"problems", now "unsatisfied" — that one is an improvement).

The cleandupes functionality is now "dnf remove --duplicates".


That's good to know.  Somehow, upgrades seem to hang on this system (but 
not my laptop) leaving me unable to start a GUI, and with so many dupes 
that I'd have to get a list of them (package-cleanup --dupes | grep 
fcXX> dupes.txt with XX representing the older disty because it listed 
both sets) and then clean them up a few at a time by hand.  Not the most 
pleasant task, but doable as long as I've got a simple way to get that list.

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Re: Most system update requires system reboot or session restart

[Ed Greshko]

On 12/21/16 06:54, Matthew Miller wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 02:27:48PM -0800, Joe Zeff wrote:
>> The package yum-utils included the program needs-restarting, which
>> would tell you what running programs needed to be restarted because
>> of an update, although it didn't seem to go so far as to tell you
>> that you needed to reboot.  Alas, there doesn't seem to be a dnf
>> version yet, along with several other handy yum utilities that we've
>> lost.
> This thead actually *started* as comments about dnf-plugin-tracer,
> which does exactly that.

Note there is also a "dnf needs-restarting" plugin.

https://dnf-plugins-core.readthedocs.io/en/latest/needs_restarting.html


-- 
You're Welcome Zachary Quinto
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Re: Most system update requires system reboot or session restart

[Matthew Miller]

On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 03:20:43PM -0800, Joe Zeff wrote:
> None, actually.  Due to hardware issues and other distractions my
> desktop is still using F 21, so I still have yum and its utilities
> if needed.  BTW, is there a dnf equivalent to package-cleanup?  I've
> had to use it several times after upgrade issues and would hate to
> lose the functionality.

Depends on which part.

You can use dnf repoquery to list duplicates, leaf packages (now
"unneeded", which I don't think is an improvement in clarity, but
whatever), orphans ("extras", and ditto), unsatisfied deps (formerly
"problems", now "unsatisfied" — that one is an improvement).

The cleandupes functionality is now "dnf remove --duplicates".


-- 
Matthew Miller

Fedora Project Leader
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Re: Most system update requires system reboot or session restart

[Matthew Miller]

On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 06:20:37PM -0500, Tom Horsley wrote:
> A far bigger problem that needing to reboot is that
> dnf seems to sometimes wack libraries that are in
> use and make my X session and/or system crash in the middle of
> an update. I never had that happen with yum, but
> I've seen it a couple of times with dnf (though I
> suspect it may have more to do with systemd linking
> in every library on the system rather than being a
> tiny "init" program with no dependencies :-).

Neither systemd nor dnf are to blame -- but wayland is a lot more
fragile in this regard under the current design.

In any case, I've gotten in the habit of running dnf update in a tmux
session as protection against this.

-- 
Matthew Miller

Fedora Project Leader
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Re: Most system update requires system reboot or session restart

[Joe Zeff]

On 12/20/2016 02:54 PM, Matthew Miller wrote:

This thead actually*started*  as comments about dnf-plugin-tracer,
which does exactly that.

What other yum utilities are you, at this point, missing?


None, actually.  Due to hardware issues and other distractions my 
desktop is still using F 21, so I still have yum and its utilities if 
needed.  BTW, is there a dnf equivalent to package-cleanup?  I've had to 
use it several times after upgrade issues and would hate to lose the 
functionality.

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Re: Most system update requires system reboot or session restart

[Tom Horsley]

A far bigger problem that needing to reboot is that
dnf seems to sometimes wack libraries that are in
use and make my X session and/or system crash in the middle of
an update. I never had that happen with yum, but
I've seen it a couple of times with dnf (though I
suspect it may have more to do with systemd linking
in every library on the system rather than being a
tiny "init" program with no dependencies :-).
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Re: Most system update requires system reboot or session restart

[Ed Greshko]

On 12/21/16 06:27, Joe Zeff wrote:
> On 12/20/2016 02:14 PM, Rick Stevens wrote:
>> After a significant number of updates, it's probably be a good idea to
>> reboot just to ensure you are using the latest kernel and that any
>> services that were updated have been restarted. How and when that
>> reboot cycle happens is completely up to you. You can ignore it all
>> together if you wish.
>
> The package yum-utils included the program needs-restarting, which would tell 
> you what
> running programs needed to be restarted because of an update, although it 
> didn't seem to
> go so far as to tell you that you needed to reboot.  Alas, there doesn't seem 
> to be a
> dnf version yet, along with several other handy yum utilities that we've lost.
>



The OP already pointed out the existence of the dnf equivalent.  It is the DNF 
tracer
Plugin.  It tells you what processes you *should* restart as well as when you 
*should*
reboot.  It does as good a job at it as "needs-restarting".

The bottom line is if someone feels compelled to follow the suggestion that you 
*should*
reboot or that "should" is equivalent to *must* then just don't apply updates 
until ready
to take the necessary action to *fully* apply them.

An additional suggestion would be for some folks to disable notifications that 
updates are
available.  I know several people that upon seeing the icon appear in their 
tray will drop
what they are doing to update their systems as they are under the impression 
that failure
to do so will result in dire consequences.


-- 
You're Welcome Zachary Quinto
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Re: Most system update requires system reboot or session restart

[Matthew Miller]

On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 02:27:48PM -0800, Joe Zeff wrote:
> The package yum-utils included the program needs-restarting, which
> would tell you what running programs needed to be restarted because
> of an update, although it didn't seem to go so far as to tell you
> that you needed to reboot.  Alas, there doesn't seem to be a dnf
> version yet, along with several other handy yum utilities that we've
> lost.

This thead actually *started* as comments about dnf-plugin-tracer,
which does exactly that.

What other yum utilities are you, at this point, missing?


-- 
Matthew Miller

Fedora Project Leader
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Re: Most system update requires system reboot or session restart

[Joe Zeff]

On 12/20/2016 02:14 PM, Rick Stevens wrote:

After a significant number of updates, it's probably be a good idea to
reboot just to ensure you are using the latest kernel and that any
services that were updated have been restarted. How and when that
reboot cycle happens is completely up to you. You can ignore it all
together if you wish.


The package yum-utils included the program needs-restarting, which would 
tell you what running programs needed to be restarted because of an 
update, although it didn't seem to go so far as to tell you that you 
needed to reboot.  Alas, there doesn't seem to be a dnf version yet, 
along with several other handy yum utilities that we've lost.

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Re: Most system update requires system reboot or session restart

[Rick Stevens]

On 12/20/2016 01:07 PM, Joe Zeff wrote:
> On 12/20/2016 12:26 PM, Matthew Miller wrote:
>> On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 11:15:19AM -0800, Joe Zeff wrote:
>>> And some of us are using distributed computing, such as BOINC and
>>> don't like interrupting the work.
>>
>> Aren't these things set up to be resiliant to nodes going in and out?
>>
> 
> Yes, of course they are.  However, every time you reboot they have to
> shut themselves down, wait until the system comes up and then restart.
> (Systemd treats them as services, so they're running before you get your
> logon screen.)  Many of us consider that a waste of time.  My system
> only gets rebooted for kernel upgrades and only shuts down for hardware
> issues or power outages.  Linux is designed to run 24/7 and I see no
> reason not to keep my desktop ready to use at a moment's notice.  YMMV,
> of course, and presumably does.

I think the point here is that you don't _have_ to _reboot_ except to
use a newer kernel. The actual programs (or services) can be restarted
as needed (or not). Now, some updates will force a service restart (if
the service is running) because of some dire security issue or
incompatibility between versions (e.g. some selinux updates, some
journald and systemd updates, etc.), but it's not that common and only
done if there are significant reasons to do a restart and the service
restart will be logged.

After a significant number of updates, it's probably be a good idea to
reboot just to ensure you are using the latest kernel and that any
services that were updated have been restarted. How and when that
reboot cycle happens is completely up to you. You can ignore it all
together if you wish.

Fedora is a very dynamic environment and updates happen a LOT. It is,
essentially, the development environment for RHEL. RHEL (and thus
CentOS) are more stable and have relatively fewer updates over any
given period of time--and then they're generally security related. For
stable, production platforms, use RHEL or CentOS, take the updates and
schedule reboots. With Fedora, you're on the "bleeding edge" and you
WILL, on occasion, get hurt (I guarantee it). It's sorta like Santa told
Ralphie in "A Christmas Story"...

You'll shoot your eye out, kid!

--
- Rick Stevens, Systems Engineer, AllDigitalri...@alldigital.com -
- AIM/Skype: therps2ICQ: 226437340   Yahoo: origrps2 -
--
-   When in doubt, mumble.   -
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Re: Most system update requires system reboot or session restart

[Joe Zeff]

On 12/20/2016 12:26 PM, Matthew Miller wrote:

On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 11:15:19AM -0800, Joe Zeff wrote:

And some of us are using distributed computing, such as BOINC and
don't like interrupting the work.


Aren't these things set up to be resiliant to nodes going in and out?



Yes, of course they are.  However, every time you reboot they have to 
shut themselves down, wait until the system comes up and then restart. 
(Systemd treats them as services, so they're running before you get your 
logon screen.)  Many of us consider that a waste of time.  My system 
only gets rebooted for kernel upgrades and only shuts down for hardware 
issues or power outages.  Linux is designed to run 24/7 and I see no 
reason not to keep my desktop ready to use at a moment's notice.  YMMV, 
of course, and presumably does.

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Re: Most system update requires system reboot or session restart

[Matthew Miller]

On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 11:15:19AM -0800, Joe Zeff wrote:
> And some of us are using distributed computing, such as BOINC and
> don't like interrupting the work.

Aren't these things set up to be resiliant to nodes going in and out?

-- 
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Fedora Project Leader
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Re: Most system update requires system reboot or session restart

[Matthew Miller]

On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 04:13:45PM +0530, Sudhir Khanger wrote:
> On my weekly update I notice that I am almost always required to
> either restart the session or reboot the system. Both of these
> options are unacceptable because they require closing 10-15 apps and
> restarting them. That's unnecessary hassle and loss in productivity.

It's an inevitable artifact of the distribution model where we to the
greatest extent possible have only one version of each application and
library.

As a practical matter, you can do online, live updates with dnf and
_not_ restart the various things that need it until its convenient, and
most of the time the application will mostly just work (possibly still
vulnerable to nominally-patched bugs).

Long term, the only practical solution to this is to decouple
application and desktop environment from the system; we're exploring
doing that using OCI (Docker-style) containers and Flatpak. (There are
other *possible* solutions, but I don't see anyone working on them.)

> Fedora's all or none update system also doesn't make it easy. If I
> don't update system then I leave it vulnerable.

Note that with Fedora 26, you will be able to do "dnf upgrade
--security" to get only security-related updates (and any necessary
updated dependencies). This isn't foolproof (sometimes updates turn out
only in retrospect to be security fixes), but should reduce churn. If
you want to live on the bleeding edge, you can enable the new version
of DNF with this feature now on Fedora 24 or Fedora 25 with `sudo dnf
copr enable rpmsoftwaremanagement/dnf-nightly`.





-- 
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Fedora Project Leader
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Re: Most system update requires system reboot or session restart

[Joe Zeff]

On 12/20/2016 11:02 AM, George N. White III wrote:

Yes, some applications have a lengthy setup process and run for days, so
are not appropriate for a system that is rebooted frequently.   At my work,
a window on one day a week is "reserved" for updates and possible reboots,
so users can schedule work to avoid this period.


And some of us are using distributed computing, such as BOINC and don't 
like interrupting the work.

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Re: Most system update requires system reboot or session restart

[George N. White III]

On 20 December 2016 at 14:40, Samuel Sieb  wrote:

> On 12/20/2016 02:43 AM, Sudhir Khanger wrote:
>
>> On my weekly update I notice that I am almost always required to either
>> restart the session or reboot the system. Both of these options are
>> unacceptable because they require closing 10-15 apps and restarting
>> them. That's unnecessary hassle and loss in productivity.
>>
>
Yes, some applications have a lengthy setup process and run for days, so
are not appropriate for a system that is rebooted frequently.   At my work,
a window on one day a week is "reserved" for updates and possible reboots,
so users can schedule work to avoid this period.


> Fedora's all or none update system also doesn't make it easy. If I don't
>> update system then I leave it vulnerable.
>>
>> How would that be different on any other distribution?  It's not all or
> none.  You can choose which updates you want to get and you don't have to
> reboot if you don't want to.  Look at the list of updates and decide if you
> want to reboot or just restart a couple of applications.


Someone with appropriate knowledge of the updates and the associated risks
needs to decide which ones need to be applied ASAP and which can wait.
Few users are in a position to do this, so in practice updates are often
all or none.

The leading edge nature of fedora implies a higher rate of changes.
Distros like Linux MINT put priority on stability, and try to keep reboots
down to important security fixes.  SL7 does an extra layer of "smoke"
testing before updates are released.

Vulnerability is also a function of your internet exposure.


> I am setting up a work machine and I have to decide if Fedora is
>> appropriate for me or not.
>>
>> Is the tracer plugin faulty or Fedora updates do require restarting
>> session or system very frequently?
>>
>> If the update includes a new kernel version, then you will have to reboot
> to use it.  You can run "dnf updateinfo list security" to see what packages
> are marked as security updates.  For now you will have to manually "dnf
> upgrade " to update those specific packages, but there is a
> feature committed but not released yet that will allow "dnf upgrade
> --security".




-- 
George N. White III 
Head of St. Margarets Bay, Nova Scotia
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Re: Most system update requires system reboot or session restart

[Samuel Sieb]

On 12/20/2016 02:43 AM, Sudhir Khanger wrote:

On my weekly update I notice that I am almost always required to either
restart the session or reboot the system. Both of these options are
unacceptable because they require closing 10-15 apps and restarting
them. That's unnecessary hassle and loss in productivity.

Fedora's all or none update system also doesn't make it easy. If I don't
update system then I leave it vulnerable.

How would that be different on any other distribution?  It's not all or 
none.  You can choose which updates you want to get and you don't have 
to reboot if you don't want to.  Look at the list of updates and decide 
if you want to reboot or just restart a couple of applications.



I am setting up a work machine and I have to decide if Fedora is
appropriate for me or not.

Is the tracer plugin faulty or Fedora updates do require restarting
session or system very frequently?

If the update includes a new kernel version, then you will have to 
reboot to use it.  You can run "dnf updateinfo list security" to see 
what packages are marked as security updates.  For now you will have to 
manually "dnf upgrade " to update those specific packages, but 
there is a feature committed but not released yet that will allow "dnf 
upgrade --security".

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Re: Most system update requires system reboot or session restart

[Bryon Adams]

On 12/20/2016 05:43 AM, Sudhir Khanger wrote:

Hi,

I update my Fedora Plasma desktop on a weekly basis. I have dnf tracer
plugin installed.

On my weekly update I notice that I am almost always required to either
restart the session or reboot the system. Both of these options are
unacceptable because they require closing 10-15 apps and restarting
them. That's unnecessary hassle and loss in productivity.

Fedora's all or none update system also doesn't make it easy. If I don't
update system then I leave it vulnerable.

I am setting up a work machine and I have to decide if Fedora is
appropriate for me or not.

Is the tracer plugin faulty or Fedora updates do require restarting
session or system very frequently?

https://dnf-plugins-extras.readthedocs.io/en/latest/tracer.html

Regards,
Sudhir Khanger,
sudhirkhanger.com.



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You don't HAVE to reboot, but some of the updated applications require 
unloading an loading again. Wouldn't the easy solution be to reboot once 
you're done with work for the week? I personally don't know why people 
leave their computers on forever if it's not a server but that's just 
me. I turn my computer off when I'm done with it.


If you want a slower moving distribution you may want to look at 
something else or just not update as often.

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Most system update requires system reboot or session restart

[Sudhir Khanger]

Hi,



I update my Fedora Plasma desktop on a weekly basis. I have dnf tracer plugin 
installed.



On my weekly update I notice that I am almost always required to either restart 
the session or reboot the system. Both of these options are unacceptable 
because they require closing 10-15 apps and restarting them. That's unnecessary 
hassle and loss in productivity.



Fedora's all or none update system also doesn't make it easy. If I don't update 
system then I leave it vulnerable.



I am setting up a work machine and I have to decide if Fedora is appropriate 
for me or not. 



Is the tracer plugin faulty or Fedora updates do require restarting session or 
system very frequently?



https://dnf-plugins-extras.readthedocs.io/en/latest/tracer.html





Regards,
Sudhir Khanger,
sudhirkhanger.com.




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