Re: Questions on DNF's UUID

[Samuel Sieb]

On 2021-05-02 8:52 a.m., None via users wrote:
Is there a way to disable non-HTTPS mirrors? I don't see any reason why 
your ISP should be able to see what distribution you use, and most 
importantly, the exact package versions you're installing/updating. (I 
know DNF will only install signed packages, so I don't have any concerns 
regarding security.)


I actually try to do the opposite, because I made a caching proxy and it 
can't cache https requests.  However, things like COPR only have an 
https option.

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Re: Questions on DNF's UUID

[None via users]

Michal Domonkos  wrote:

> Another correction - turns out I didn't read Stan's reply carefully;
he says it's sent to a mirror, however that's not the case :)  It's
just the MirrorManager instance that receives it.

Ah, I see. Many thanks for the clarification. 


Matthew Miller  wrote: 

> I hope you won't, though, because this information is really helpful to us in
planning, and as you can see is designed to be minimally invasive. The goal
is to count, not track.

I don't plan to, since disabling it would itself open up doors for 
fingerprinting, haha. Anyhow, your answer was well detailed. Thanks!

Another question:

Is there a way to disable non-HTTPS mirrors? I don't see any reason why your 
ISP should be able to see what distribution you use, and most importantly, the 
exact package versions you're installing/updating. (I know DNF will only 
install signed packages, so I don't have any concerns regarding security.)

Thanks



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Re: Questions on DNF's UUID

[Matthew Miller]

On Sun, May 02, 2021 at 03:35:48AM +0200, None via users wrote:
> I recently got to know that Fedora's DNF creates an UUID to help keep
> track of the number of unique Fedora users.

It does not. I initially proposed this, similar to what openSUSE does, but
the actual implementation does not use a UUID at all. You can read about the
actual implementation here:

https://dnf.readthedocs.io/en/latest/conf_ref.html#options-for-both-main-and-repo


> As per my understanding, before implementing this UUID mechanism, they
> obtained their user-base estimate through the use of IP addresses.  

That's correct.

> I would appreciate it if someone could clarify these concerns of mine: 

>  - Is the generated UUID based on the hardware configuration of the
> Fedora user, or is it a random UUID?  (If the user re-installs Fedora,
> will the re-generated UUID be alike to the first one, in any way?)  

There is no UUID; all sytems of the same general age (1 week, 2-4 weeks,
5-24 weeks, > 24 weeks) with the same release, os_variant, and architecture
are all aggregated together.

> - Will the user's UUID be sent to package mirrors each time they perform
>   an update/installation of packages? (If so, would this mean that a
>   malicious mirror could potentially map a user's UUID with all the
>   associated package-requests?)

No; there is no UUID. Additionally, the countme value is sent once per week
and not with every request.


> - Is there any way to opt out of providing data for this user-base
>   statistical analysis?

Yes; disable "countme" in the DNF repo configs as documented above. I hope
you won't, though, because this information is really helpful to us in
planning, and as you can see is designed to be minimally invasive. The goal
is to count, not track.

> Could someone also point to the file in the source-code
> (https://github.com/rpm-software-management/dnf) where this UUID-feature
> has been implemented?


https://github.com/rpm-software-management/libdnf/pull/807


-- 
Matthew Miller

Fedora Project Leader
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Re: Questions on DNF's UUID

[Michal Domonkos]

On Sun, May 2, 2021 at 3:47 PM Michal Domonkos  wrote:
>
> On Sun, May 2, 2021 at 3:15 PM stan via users
>  wrote:
> > I think the answer to your question is that the variable is sent to
> > the mirror, so yes, a mirror will receive the flag. However, they
> > appear to have gone to great lengths to avoid leaking any
> > identifiable information.  See this link:
> >
> > https://github.com/rpm-software-management/dnf/pull/1450/commits/24e6fadf03284b7892c9a7e9bc5e154c1138d854
>
> That's correct.  The flag is only sent with a metalink or mirrorlink
> request, which is, in case of Fedora, done centrally to the
> mirrors.fedoraproject.org (so called MirrorManager) server.  The
> subsequent requests for the repodata itself sent to a specific mirror
> won't include that flag.

Another correction - turns out I didn't read Stan's reply carefully;
he says it's sent to a mirror, however that's not the case :)  It's
just the MirrorManager instance that receives it.
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Re: Questions on DNF's UUID

[Michal Domonkos]

On Sun, May 2, 2021 at 3:47 PM Michal Domonkos  wrote:
> 1) the age of the installation (one of 4 values, see the link above)

Oh, just a little correction - there were some later changes made to
that man page (the age "buckets" in particular) that are not reflected
in the linked PR, so please check out the current dnf.conf(5) man page
instead.
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Re: Questions on DNF's UUID

[Michal Domonkos]

On Sun, May 2, 2021 at 3:15 PM stan via users
 wrote:
> I think the answer to your question is that the variable is sent to
> the mirror, so yes, a mirror will receive the flag. However, they
> appear to have gone to great lengths to avoid leaking any
> identifiable information.  See this link:
>
> https://github.com/rpm-software-management/dnf/pull/1450/commits/24e6fadf03284b7892c9a7e9bc5e154c1138d854

That's correct.  The flag is only sent with a metalink or mirrorlink
request, which is, in case of Fedora, done centrally to the
mirrors.fedoraproject.org (so called MirrorManager) server.  The
subsequent requests for the repodata itself sent to a specific mirror
won't include that flag.

There are two pieces of information the countme flag carries:

1) the age of the installation (one of 4 values, see the link above)

2) the fact it's one of the first N metalink requests made that week
from that particular system (i.e. we randomly pick a number from 1 to
N during the first request that week, and then decrement it on every
subsequent request; when it hits 1, we add the countme flag).
Currently, we've hardcoded N to be 4, based on some very rough
estimation of how many requests there usually are on a typical
(workstation) installation throughout a week, but it's quite arbitrary
at the moment.

The goal of 2) was to avoid signaling "hey, look everybody, this is my
first DNF metadata refresh this week", as that alone could indicate
some usage patterns of that system (e.g. when it was booted up) and
thus is, in a way, user-specific.  So adding this little randomization
component helps mitigate this.  The idea was to minimize any kind of
information leakage with this flag, as Stan puts it.
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Re: Questions on DNF's UUID

[stan via users]

On Sun, 2 May 2021 05:12:55 +0200 (CEST)
None via users  wrote:

> ed.gres...@greshko.com wrote:
> 
> > This would also be of interest to you...
> >
> > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1672504
> >  
> The link was helpful. I have one more question:
> 
> - Where is this countme variable sent? Is it to Fedora itself (the
> host getfedora.org), or the package mirrors, that are mostly hosted
> by third-parties? (In other words, when I install a package, will a
> mirror receive the value of my countme variable?)

I think the answer to your question is that the variable is sent to
the mirror, so yes, a mirror will receive the flag. However, they
appear to have gone to great lengths to avoid leaking any
identifiable information.  See this link:

https://github.com/rpm-software-management/dnf/pull/1450/commits/24e6fadf03284b7892c9a7e9bc5e154c1138d854
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Re: Questions on DNF's UUID

[None via users]

ed.gres...@greshko.com wrote:

> This would also be of interest to you...
>
> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1672504
>
The link was helpful. I have one more question:

- Where is this countme variable sent? Is it to Fedora itself (the host 
getfedora.org), or the package mirrors, that are mostly hosted by 
third-parties? (In other words, when I install a package, will a mirror receive 
the value of my countme variable?)

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Re: Questions on DNF's UUID

[Ed Greshko]

On 02/05/2021 10:28, ml-de...@keemail.me wrote:

- And, have you read https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/DNF_Better_Counting 


I went through it; it seems like there's no UUID created—just a "countme" 
variable. Is that right?


This would also be of interest to you...

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1672504


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Re: Questions on DNF's UUID

[Ed Greshko]

On 02/05/2021 10:28, ml-de...@keemail.me wrote:

- And, have you read https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/DNF_Better_Counting 


I went through it; it seems like there's no UUID created—just a "countme" 
variable. Is that right?


Correct.

"For this reason, we don’t want to use any identifier like /etc/machine-id which may 
be used for other purposes — or in fact any UUID at all."


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Re: Questions on DNF's UUID

[ml-devel]

- And, have you read https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/DNF_Better_Counting
I went through it; it seems like there's no UUID created—just a "countme" 
variable. Is that right?

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Re: Questions on DNF's UUID

[Ed Greshko]

On 02/05/2021 09:35, None via users wrote:
I recently got to know that Fedora's DNF creates an UUID to help keep track of the number of unique Fedora users. As per my understanding, before implementing this UUID mechanism, they obtained their user-base estimate through the use of IP addresses. 


And, have you read https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/DNF_Better_Counting

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Re: Questions on DNF's UUID

[Ed Greshko]

On 02/05/2021 09:35, None via users wrote:
- Is there any way to opt out of providing data for this user-base statistical analysis? 


Yes.

Go to /etc/yum.repos.d and remove "countme=1" from any of *.repo files.

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