Re: dnf upgrade to Fedora 35 using --downloaddir just wiped out my entire home dir !

[Roberto Ragusa]

On 11/18/21 5:20 AM, linux guy wrote:

Sorry, I've been using Redhat/Fedora for 20 years.  Never once lost data like 
this.  This is bad programming, period !



I agree.
It would be a strange pattern to point a tool to a dir and expect it to use
it and then remove everything (including previously existing stuff), because
what is a user then expected to do?
1) create a new dir
2) run the tool, which finally deletes the files but leaves the dir
3) remove the dir

This appears more convoluted than:
1) point a tool to a dir with enough space available, the tool then creates its 
own temp dir,
does its stuff and removes the temp dir
Indeed, this is exactly what every tool does with $TMPDIR.

(but I have to say I have once seen a badly written software running by default with 
"its dir"
set to $TMPDIR and willingfully deleting any "too old file" there without 
distinction between
its stuff and other files: as a results it removed completely the 
/tmp/.X11-unix/ dir
causing bizarre problems with programs not starting anymore. it was commercial 
software.)

Regards.

--
   Roberto Ragusamail at robertoragusa.it
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Re: dnf upgrade to Fedora 35 using --downloaddir just wiped out my entire home dir !

[lejeczek via users]

On 18/11/2021 01:45, linux guy wrote:
dnf upgrade to Fedora 35 using --downloaddir just wiped 
out my entire home dir... !


So... went to do an upgrade to Fedora 35 and found that I 
was lacking room for the downloads.   I have /home set up 
on a separate drive, so I did the following:


dnf system-upgrade download --downloaddir=/home 
--releasever=35


The upgrade went well, except when I rebooted into F35 I 
couldn't log into my home directory.  So I rebooted and 
logged into a console session.  When I did, I got an error 
message stating that /home/ was missing.   ls /home 
showed me that all my home directories are missing.


I'm guessing that dnf downloaded all the packages for the 
upgrade to /home and then did a rm -rf * on them, taking 
out my home directories in the process.  Can someone 
confirm this ?


Any chance I can recover the files ?


(I do not see my email and I wonder if it got "stripped" in 
some weird way, or mailman/my Yahoo malfunctioned...hmm)


If you have not heard of & nobody suggested I'd recommend 
'testdisk' - but that one takes some 'forensic' work & 
depends of what if anything was overwritten with new data


zdrówko, L
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Re: dnf upgrade to Fedora 35 using --downloaddir just wiped out my entire home dir !

[linux guy]

Bug filed with Fedora:  https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2024430

DNF developers notified:
https://github.com/rpm-software-management/dnf-plugins-extras/issues/200
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Re: dnf upgrade to Fedora 35 using --downloaddir just wiped out my entire home dir !

[lejeczek via users]

On 18/11/2021 01:45, linux guy wrote:
dnf upgrade to Fedora 35 using --downloaddir just wiped 
out my entire home dir... !


So... went to do an upgrade to Fedora 35 and found that I 
was lacking room for the downloads.   I have /home set up 
on a separate drive, so I did the following:


dnf system-upgrade download --downloaddir=/home 
--releasever=35


The upgrade went well, except when I rebooted into F35 I 
couldn't log into my home directory.  So I rebooted and 
logged into a console session.  When I did, I got an error 
message stating that /home/ was missing.   ls /home 
showed me that all my home directories are missing.


I'm guessing that dnf downloaded all the packages for the 
upgrade to /home and then did a rm -rf * on them, taking 
out my home directories in the process.  Can someone 
confirm this ?


Any chance I can recover the files ?



And yes - it's a bad program logic design in my view - I 
remember 'rdiff-backup' which would 'recover' to a manually 
given target path which it then would empty if there was 
nothing to recover - so whatever was there in that 'target' 
was lost.
So yes, file a bugzilla, I'd vote it up - if/when you do 
mail it back here.


good luck, L.
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Re: dnf upgrade to Fedora 35 using --downloaddir just wiped out my entire home dir !

[Sam Varshavchik]

linux guy writes:


« HTML content follows »

Sorry, I've been using Redhat/Fedora for 20 years.  Never once lost data like  
this.  This is bad programming, period !


I partially agree. I've been updating since Fedora Core 4, and I never  
needed to make a backup of anything.


I think this goes down to a practical point. I wouldn't be comfortable  
pointing any tool to any directory, ostensibly for the purpose of letting  
the tool use it for its internal purposes, where I had important data.


At the very least I would create an empty subdirectory there, and point the  
tool there. This removes all ambiguity in my mind.


Especially in this case: I know that after a system-upgrade the download  
directory gets automatically wiped. I'm keenly aware of it, I have several  
machines to update, and after the initial download I make a copy of the  
/var/lib/dnf/system-upgrade directory to the next machine before starting  
this one's upgrade, to avoid having to redownload all this stuff. If I don't  
do that, it gets wiped and everything needs to get downloaded again.


I would be quite nervous at repointing this to /home, that's too close to  
comfort.


I wouldn't even repoint anything. If this partition was full I'd just  
replace /var/lib/dnf/system-upgrade with a symbolic link to an empty  
directory on another partition, and don't change a thing for the download  
and the reboot.





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Re: dnf upgrade to Fedora 35 using --downloaddir just wiped out my entire home dir !

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Thu, 2021-11-18 at 10:05 -0700, linux guy wrote:
> > > Except that this is a very different case.  You're not telling
> > > dnf where
> > > it can create its own directory.  You are saying "this is your
> > > directory, use it".
> > 
> 
> Yes, use it.  But don't destroy data in it that the app didn't create
> !  rm
> -rf ?  Really ? That is a lot strong handed.
> 
> Yes, you have a point. It's a much better argument, than "it could,
> > because it did". I still think the prudent (and simple) thing is to
> > create a subdirectory and wipe that. Or at least put a scary
> > warning
> > in the documentation.
> > 
> 
> Why didn't dnf create its own sub dir within the given directory and
> then
> just wipe that ?  Absolutely no chance of destroying user data if you
> do
> that.

IMHO the proper policy would be to ask the user before proceeding,
e.g.:

   This will remove all existing content in . Continue? [N, y]

Dnf already asks for confirmation for some other actions, so I don't
see the problem with this.

poc
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Re: dnf upgrade to Fedora 35 using --downloaddir just wiped out my entire home dir !

[linux guy]

> > Except that this is a very different case.  You're not telling dnf where
> > it can create its own directory.  You are saying "this is your
> > directory, use it".
>

Yes, use it.  But don't destroy data in it that the app didn't create !  rm
-rf ?  Really ? That is a lot strong handed.

Yes, you have a point. It's a much better argument, than "it could,
> because it did". I still think the prudent (and simple) thing is to
> create a subdirectory and wipe that. Or at least put a scary warning
> in the documentation.
>

Why didn't dnf create its own sub dir within the given directory and then
just wipe that ?  Absolutely no chance of destroying user data if you do
that.
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Re: dnf upgrade to Fedora 35 using --downloaddir just wiped out my entire home dir !

[Andras Simon]

2021-11-18 11:25 UTC+01:00, Samuel Sieb :
> On 11/18/21 02:21, Andras Simon wrote:
>> 2021-11-18 5:08 UTC+01:00, Ed Greshko :
>>> On 18/11/2021 11:39, linux guy wrote:
 "And the "rm" man page also does not warn what would happen if one
 enters
 "rm -rf /home"."

 Sorry, not the same context.   Giving an app a directory to use does
 not
 allow the app to delete data it didn't create.

>>>
>>> Quite apparently, it does in this case.
>>
>> Just because dnf does it, it doesn't mean that it is allowed to do it.
>> In a very technical sense, yes, but then, say, firefox is also allowed
>> to wipe your home directory. dnf should've created a subdirectory of
>> /home and wiped *that*, afterwards. Just as other apps are creating
>> subdirectories of .config and do their thing there.
>
> Except that this is a very different case.  You're not telling dnf where
> it can create its own directory.  You are saying "this is your
> directory, use it".

Yes, you have a point. It's a much better argument, than "it could,
because it did". I still think the prudent (and simple) thing is to
create a subdirectory and wipe that. Or at least put a scary warning
in the documentation.
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Re: dnf upgrade to Fedora 35 using --downloaddir just wiped out my entire home dir !

[Samuel Sieb]

On 11/18/21 02:21, Andras Simon wrote:

2021-11-18 5:08 UTC+01:00, Ed Greshko :

On 18/11/2021 11:39, linux guy wrote:

"And the "rm" man page also does not warn what would happen if one enters
"rm -rf /home"."

Sorry, not the same context.   Giving an app a directory to use does not
allow the app to delete data it didn't create.



Quite apparently, it does in this case.


Just because dnf does it, it doesn't mean that it is allowed to do it.
In a very technical sense, yes, but then, say, firefox is also allowed
to wipe your home directory. dnf should've created a subdirectory of
/home and wiped *that*, afterwards. Just as other apps are creating
subdirectories of .config and do their thing there.


Except that this is a very different case.  You're not telling dnf where 
it can create its own directory.  You are saying "this is your 
directory, use it".  You normally don't even use that parameter at all. 
 I've never used it even when low on disk space.  I just create a link 
from the default directory to where I want it to put the files. 
Sometimes that has even been on an external flash drive.

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Re: dnf upgrade to Fedora 35 using --downloaddir just wiped out my entire home dir !

[Andras Simon]

2021-11-18 5:08 UTC+01:00, Ed Greshko :
> On 18/11/2021 11:39, linux guy wrote:
>> "And the "rm" man page also does not warn what would happen if one enters
>> "rm -rf /home"."
>>
>> Sorry, not the same context.   Giving an app a directory to use does not
>> allow the app to delete data it didn't create.
>>
>
> Quite apparently, it does in this case.

Just because dnf does it, it doesn't mean that it is allowed to do it.
In a very technical sense, yes, but then, say, firefox is also allowed
to wipe your home directory. dnf should've created a subdirectory of
/home and wiped *that*, afterwards. Just as other apps are creating
subdirectories of .config and do their thing there.

It's not even a question of which directory we're talking about. dnf
shouldn't even wipe /tmp
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Re: dnf upgrade to Fedora 35 using --downloaddir just wiped out my entire home dir !

[Marcel J.E. Mol]

It is also a bit risky to to just give your whole /home to a
application when it probably contains lots uf subdirectories with
valuable data.
I would have created a /home/dnf supbir and use that as downloaddir.

Cheers,

Marcel

On Thu, Nov 18, 2021 at 08:53:43AM +, Andy Paterson via users wrote:
> This is why my /home has its own dedicated 2 disk md mirror 
> The disks are physically powered off before i do a dnf upgrade of my system 
> disk
> I then fix fstab to mount my /home as the very last stage!!!
> 
> > On 18 Nov 2021, at 04:39, Joe Zeff  wrote:
> > 
> > On 11/17/21 9:20 PM, linux guy wrote:
> >> Sorry, I've been using Redhat/Fedora for 20 years.  Never once lost data 
> >> like this.  This is bad programming, period !
> >> On Wed, Nov 17, 2021 at 9:15 PM Joe Zeff  >> > wrote:
> >>On 11/17/21 6:45 PM, linux guy wrote:
> >> > Any chance I can recover the files ?
> >>I very seriously doubt it because in Linux, gone is gone.  I hope I'm
> >>wrong here, but this is why you should never upgrade your system
> >>without
> >>first backing up your /home and anything else you consider important.
> > 
> > There's always a first time.  And, programming errors aren't the only 
> > causes of data loss.  It doesn't take much time to back up /home and the 
> > peace of mind you get from knowing that no matter what happens your data is 
> > safe is well worth it.
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Re: dnf upgrade to Fedora 35 using --downloaddir just wiped out my entire home dir !

[Andy Paterson via users]

This is why my /home has its own dedicated 2 disk md mirror 
The disks are physically powered off before i do a dnf upgrade of my system disk
I then fix fstab to mount my /home as the very last stage!!!

> On 18 Nov 2021, at 04:39, Joe Zeff  wrote:
> 
> On 11/17/21 9:20 PM, linux guy wrote:
>> Sorry, I've been using Redhat/Fedora for 20 years.  Never once lost data 
>> like this.  This is bad programming, period !
>> On Wed, Nov 17, 2021 at 9:15 PM Joe Zeff > > wrote:
>>On 11/17/21 6:45 PM, linux guy wrote:
>> > Any chance I can recover the files ?
>>I very seriously doubt it because in Linux, gone is gone.  I hope I'm
>>wrong here, but this is why you should never upgrade your system
>>without
>>first backing up your /home and anything else you consider important.
> 
> There's always a first time.  And, programming errors aren't the only causes 
> of data loss.  It doesn't take much time to back up /home and the peace of 
> mind you get from knowing that no matter what happens your data is safe is 
> well worth it.
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Re: dnf upgrade to Fedora 35 using --downloaddir just wiped out my entire home dir !

[linux guy]

Bug filed with Fedora:  https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2024430

Developers notified:
https://github.com/rpm-software-management/dnf-plugins-extras/issues/200
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Re: dnf upgrade to Fedora 35 using --downloaddir just wiped out my entire home dir !

[Ed Greshko]

On 18/11/2021 12:29, linux guy wrote:

Sorry, the use of #rm -rf like that is unacceptable.  The developer knows what 
directories s/he created.  No need to do an rm -rf and kill everything on the 
directory tree from there down.  That is overkill and dangerous.



Well, file a bugzilla.  This is the first time I've heard of anyone running 
into this situation.

BTW, https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/quick-docs/dnf-system-upgrade/

Does tell users

"Warning

Back up your data before performing a system-wide upgrade as every system upgrade is 
potentially risky. As a precaution, download the Fedora Workstation Live image in 
the event something goes wrong."

I'm not sure that placing warnings in the man pages would do much good.  
History has shown that users tend not to read the
man pages.  Especially if they are sure they know what they are doing.

--
Did 황준호 die?
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Re: dnf upgrade to Fedora 35 using --downloaddir just wiped out my entire home dir !

[Joe Zeff]

On 11/17/21 9:29 PM, linux guy wrote:
Sorry, the use of #rm -rf like that is unacceptable.  The developer 
knows what directories s/he created.  No need to do an rm -rf and kill 
everything on the directory tree from there down.  That is overkill and 
dangerous.


So file a bug.
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Re: dnf upgrade to Fedora 35 using --downloaddir just wiped out my entire home dir !

[Joe Zeff]

On 11/17/21 9:20 PM, linux guy wrote:
Sorry, I've been using Redhat/Fedora for 20 years.  Never once lost data 
like this.  This is bad programming, period !


On Wed, Nov 17, 2021 at 9:15 PM Joe Zeff > wrote:


On 11/17/21 6:45 PM, linux guy wrote:
 > Any chance I can recover the files ?

I very seriously doubt it because in Linux, gone is gone.  I hope I'm
wrong here, but this is why you should never upgrade your system
without
first backing up your /home and anything else you consider important.


There's always a first time.  And, programming errors aren't the only 
causes of data loss.  It doesn't take much time to back up /home and the 
peace of mind you get from knowing that no matter what happens your data 
is safe is well worth it.

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Re: dnf upgrade to Fedora 35 using --downloaddir just wiped out my entire home dir !

[Samuel Sieb]

On 11/17/21 20:29, linux guy wrote:
Sorry, the use of #rm -rf like that is unacceptable.  The developer 
knows what directories s/he created.  No need to do an rm -rf and kill 


That is not true.  Any particular run of dnf does not know when a 
previous run was done or what files or directories it might have made. 
The best option is to clean the cache directory before and/or after 
running.  If it didn't clean up then people would complain about it like 
they did (quite validly) about PackageKit.  GBs of data left hanging 
around filling the drive.  Guess what PackageKit does now?

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Re: dnf upgrade to Fedora 35 using --downloaddir just wiped out my entire home dir !

[linux guy]

Sorry, the use of #rm -rf like that is unacceptable.  The developer knows
what directories s/he created.  No need to do an rm -rf and kill everything
on the directory tree from there down.  That is overkill and dangerous.
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Re: dnf upgrade to Fedora 35 using --downloaddir just wiped out my entire home dir !

[Samuel Sieb]

On 11/17/21 19:39, linux guy wrote:
"And the "rm" man page also does not warn what would happen if one 
enters "rm -rf /home"."


Sorry, not the same context.   Giving an app a directory to use does not 
allow the app to delete data it didn't create.


If you give an application a cache directory to use, you most definitely 
should consider anything in that directory unimportant.  You are giving 
it full control to do whatever it wants in that directory unless there 
are clear definitions of what it will do.

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Re: dnf upgrade to Fedora 35 using --downloaddir just wiped out my entire home dir !

[linux guy]

At least WARN the user, either in the man page or on the command line or
both that you are about to destroy data.
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Re: dnf upgrade to Fedora 35 using --downloaddir just wiped out my entire home dir !

[linux guy]

Sorry, I've been using Redhat/Fedora for 20 years.  Never once lost data
like this.  This is bad programming, period !

On Wed, Nov 17, 2021 at 9:15 PM Joe Zeff  wrote:

> On 11/17/21 6:45 PM, linux guy wrote:
> > Any chance I can recover the files ?
>
> I very seriously doubt it because in Linux, gone is gone.  I hope I'm
> wrong here, but this is why you should never upgrade your system without
> first backing up your /home and anything else you consider important.
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Re: dnf upgrade to Fedora 35 using --downloaddir just wiped out my entire home dir !

[Joe Zeff]

On 11/17/21 6:45 PM, linux guy wrote:

Any chance I can recover the files ?


I very seriously doubt it because in Linux, gone is gone.  I hope I'm 
wrong here, but this is why you should never upgrade your system without 
first backing up your /home and anything else you consider important.

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Re: dnf upgrade to Fedora 35 using --downloaddir just wiped out my entire home dir !

[linux guy]

Just confirmed the dnf system-upgrade probably does a rm-rf on the
"download" dir.

>From dnf-plugins-extras/plugins/system_upgrade.py:

===
def clear_dir(path):
if not os.path.isdir(path):
return

for entry in os.listdir(path):
fullpath = os.path.join(path, entry)
try:
if os.path.isdir(fullpath):
dnf.util.rm_rf(fullpath)
else:
os.unlink(fullpath)
except OSError:
pass


Guess what dnf.util.rm_rf does !   I'm guessing #rm -rf !  Which explains
where my home directories went !

This is crazy coding !
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Re: dnf upgrade to Fedora 35 using --downloaddir just wiped out my entire home dir !

[Ed Greshko]

On 18/11/2021 11:39, linux guy wrote:

"And the "rm" man page also does not warn what would happen if one enters "rm -rf 
/home"."

Sorry, not the same context.   Giving an app a directory to use does not allow 
the app to delete data it didn't create.



Quite apparently, it does in this case.

So, file a bugzilla.

--
Did 황준호 die?
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Re: dnf upgrade to Fedora 35 using --downloaddir just wiped out my entire home dir !

[linux guy]

"And the "rm" man page also does not warn what would happen if one enters
"rm -rf /home"."

Sorry, not the same context.   Giving an app a directory to use does not
allow the app to delete data it didn't create.
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Re: dnf upgrade to Fedora 35 using --downloaddir just wiped out my entire home dir !

[Ed Greshko]

On 18/11/2021 11:00, linux guy wrote:

"'I'm not surprised.  You just told dnf that /home was its working
directory, so it can do whatever it wants with it.  It's going to want
to clean it out so only the relevant files are there."

Sorry, I did not give dnf the right to delete files it did not create in that 
directory.    Note that it also wiped sub directories, which I did not agree to.

Here is what the man page says:

"--downloaddir=, --destdir=
 Redirect  downloaded  packages to provided directory. The option 
has to be used to‐
 gether with the --downloadonlycommand  line  option,  with  the 
download command
 (dnf-plugins-core) or with the system-upgrade command 
(dnf-plugins-extras)."

No warnings about wiping other data !


And the "rm" man page also does not warn what would happen if one enters "rm -rf 
/home".

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Re: dnf upgrade to Fedora 35 using --downloaddir just wiped out my entire home dir !

[linux guy]

"'I'm not surprised.  You just told dnf that /home was its working
directory, so it can do whatever it wants with it.  It's going to want
to clean it out so only the relevant files are there."

Sorry, I did not give dnf the right to delete files it did not create in
that directory.Note that it also wiped sub directories, which I did not
agree to.

Here is what the man page says:

" --downloaddir=, --destdir=
 Redirect  downloaded  packages to provided directory. The
option has to be used to‐
 gether with the --downloadonly command  line  option,  with
 the  download  command
 (dnf-plugins-core) or with the system-upgrade command
(dnf-plugins-extras)."

No warnings about wiping other data !
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Re: dnf upgrade to Fedora 35 using --downloaddir just wiped out my entire home dir !

[Samuel Sieb]

On 11/17/21 17:45, linux guy wrote:
dnf upgrade to Fedora 35 using --downloaddir just wiped out my entire 
home dir... !


So... went to do an upgrade to Fedora 35 and found that I was lacking 
room for the downloads.   I have /home set up on a separate drive, so I 
did the following:


dnf system-upgrade download --downloaddir=/home --releasever=35

The upgrade went well, except when I rebooted into F35 I couldn't log 
into my home directory.  So I rebooted and logged into a console 
session.  When I did, I got an error message stating that /home/ was 
missing.   ls /home showed me that all my home directories are missing.


I'm not surprised.  You just told dnf that /home was its working 
directory, so it can do whatever it wants with it.  It's going to want 
to clean it out so only the relevant files are there.


I'm guessing that dnf downloaded all the packages for the upgrade to 
/home and then did a rm -rf * on them, taking out my home directories in 
the process.  Can someone confirm this ?


Any chance I can recover the files ?


That depends on the filesystem, but you'll most likely need some sort of 
data recovery software and it won't be easy to get the files back.  How 
much you can get back depends on when the delete happened relative to 
the rpm downloading.

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Re: dnf upgrade to Fedora 35 using --downloaddir just wiped out my entire home dir !

[linux guy]

Or maybe the home directory isn't getting mounted to /home ?

On Wed, Nov 17, 2021 at 6:45 PM linux guy  wrote:

> dnf upgrade to Fedora 35 using --downloaddir just wiped out my entire home
> dir... !
>
> So... went to do an upgrade to Fedora 35 and found that I was lacking room
> for the downloads.   I have /home set up on a separate drive, so I did the
> following:
>
> dnf system-upgrade download --downloaddir=/home --releasever=35
>
> The upgrade went well, except when I rebooted into F35 I couldn't log into
> my home directory.  So I rebooted and logged into a console session.  When
> I did, I got an error message stating that /home/ was missing.   ls
> /home showed me that all my home directories are missing.
>
> I'm guessing that dnf downloaded all the packages for the upgrade to /home
> and then did a rm -rf * on them, taking out my home directories in the
> process.  Can someone confirm this ?
>
> Any chance I can recover the files ?
>
> I am beyond angry that this happened.  I've been using Fedora forever.
> I'm sure I've used --downloaddir before without this happening.
>
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dnf upgrade to Fedora 35 using --downloaddir just wiped out my entire home dir !

[linux guy]

dnf upgrade to Fedora 35 using --downloaddir just wiped out my entire home
dir... !

So... went to do an upgrade to Fedora 35 and found that I was lacking room
for the downloads.   I have /home set up on a separate drive, so I did the
following:

dnf system-upgrade download --downloaddir=/home --releasever=35

The upgrade went well, except when I rebooted into F35 I couldn't log into
my home directory.  So I rebooted and logged into a console session.  When
I did, I got an error message stating that /home/ was missing.   ls
/home showed me that all my home directories are missing.

I'm guessing that dnf downloaded all the packages for the upgrade to /home
and then did a rm -rf * on them, taking out my home directories in the
process.  Can someone confirm this ?

Any chance I can recover the files ?

I am beyond angry that this happened.  I've been using Fedora forever.  I'm
sure I've used --downloaddir before without this happening.
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