Re: emacs is hopeless

[stan via users]

On Wed, 15 Nov 2023 17:37:09 +
Barry Scott  wrote:

> > On 15 Nov 2023, at 17:21, stan via users
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > I work around that by configuring hh and uu as .  Since I
> > (almost) always finish input by pressing one of them, the command
> > mode is available, so I just hit
> > :w 
> > to save.  I guess it is a matter of taste, a trade off.  
> 
> I know few vi commands, one I do know is ZZ that saves the file and
> exits.
> 
> I only know enough vi to boot strap barry's emacs on a machine .

That would be me in emacs.  I used emacs at one point, and liked it.
Then I took a long hiatus, and when I used it again, it just didn't
click with me.  So, I learned vim, and I find it comfortable to use,
it fits my thinking process.  Just like perl and python.  I just
couldn't feel comfortable using perl, but python fits like a glove. To
each their own.
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Re: emacs is hopeless

[Tim via users]

On Wed, 2023-11-15 at 20:11 -0600, Ranjan Maitra via users wrote:
> For good measure, I even mapped out how to get out of the insert mode
> directly, without having to launch a few missiles too:
> 
> inoremap  :q
> 
> These seem to work.

Doesn't just hitting ESCAPE do that?

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Re: emacs is hopeless

[Ranjan Maitra via users]

On Wed Nov15'23 09:58:23AM, Community Support for Fedora Users wrote:
> From: Ranjan Maitra via users 
> Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2023 09:58:23 -0600
> To: Community support for Fedora users 
> Cc: Ranjan Maitra 
> Reply-To: Community support for Fedora users 
> Subject: Re: emacs is hopeless
>
> On Wed Nov15'23 11:21:51AM, George N. White III wrote:
> > From: "George N. White III" 
> > Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2023 11:21:51 -0400
> > To: Community support for Fedora users 
> > Reply-To: Community support for Fedora users 
> > Subject: Re: emacs is hopeless
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 14, 2023 at 6:12 PM Ranjan Maitra via users <
> > users@lists.fedoraproject.org> wrote:
> >
> > > [...]
> > >
> > Still sad about having to give up on emacs, but, oh, well! ESS is not
> > > really that well-supported (on Fedora, at least anymore).
> > >
> >
> > There has been very little activity in the ESS site.  Unless someone steps
> > forward to maintain
> > it on new linux it may slowly die as people upgrade their systems.
> >
>
> Right, there is still some activity on the github site (five months
> ago), but the RPM no longer builds on Fedora (I tried it a couple of
> days ago with the updated github versio).
>
> I have pretty much given up on emacs now and am working to get nvim to a
> (for me) saner state. It is quite amazing how quickly we adapt to new 
> environments, though falling back to old ways of doing things,  out of 
> unthinking old habit, is why readline is important.
>
> My next stop: try to undo something without exiting insert mode. (Ctrl-/
> in emacs).

I figured this out looking at the remapping for Ctrl-x-Ctrl-s. I came up
with:

inoremap  :u

For good measure, I even mapped out how to get out of the insert mode
directly, without having to launch a few missiles too:

inoremap  :q

These seem to work.

Let us see what else I come up with.

Best wishes,
Ranjan




>
> Best wishes,
> Ranjan
>
>
> >
> > --
> > George N. White III
>
> > ___
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Re: emacs is hopeless

[Barry Scott]

> On 15 Nov 2023, at 17:21, stan via users  
> wrote:
> 
> I work around that by configuring hh and uu as .  Since I
> (almost) always finish input by pressing one of them, the command
> mode is available, so I just hit
> :w 
> to save.  I guess it is a matter of taste, a trade off.

I know few vi commands, one I do know is ZZ that saves the file and exits.

I only know enough vi to boot strap barry's emacs on a machine .

Barry

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Re: emacs is hopeless

[stan via users]

On Tue, 14 Nov 2023 13:26:38 -0600
Ranjan Maitra via users  wrote:

> On Mon Nov13'23 11:41:28AM, George N. White III wrote:
> > From: "George N. White III" 
> > Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2023 11:41:28 -0400
> > To: Community support for Fedora users
> >  Reply-To: Community support for
> > Fedora users  Subject: Re: emacs is
> > hopeless
> >
> > On Mon, Nov 13, 2023 at 9:04 AM Ranjan Maitra via users <  
> > users@lists.fedoraproject.org> wrote:  
> >  
> > > [...]
> > > I also tried emacs-nox and have the same problem. Removing my
> > > .emacs did not have any effect.
> > >  
> > I do not mess with my system files so I am a bit confused as to how
> > to  
> > > track this down. Is there a
> > >  
> > verbose mode which allows me to see what to do?  
> > >  
> >
> > Try running emacs as newly created user to rule out something in
> > your ~/.emacs.d or some
> > shell startup script creating variables that confuse emacs. Have
> > you tried "emacs -nw" for text mode
> > to rule out a GUI issue?
> >
> > It might help to have a simple example with a description of what
> > happens. If emacs is failing due to
> > some conflict with libraries you might see an error with
> > journalctl.  Make a note of the time the error
> > occurs to help identify related errors.
> >
> >  
> > >
> > > I have emacs-ess also installed (from Fedora 36) that has not
> > > been updated and is probably obsolete or retired.
> > >  
> >
> > Probably good to remove that old package.  You can reinstall from
> > upstream source if Fedora 39 doesn't have a
> > package.  
> 
> Indeed, the culprit appears to have been the emacs-ess package, which
> was creating issues even with it not being called.
> 
> Unfortunately, for me, emacs-ess was the main selling point of emacs,
> and with that rendering emacs unusable, it appears that I will have to
> move on to nvim which has a good R interface.
> 
> What really irritates me about vi and its friends is that it throws
> you out of editing (insert) mode in order to save the file, and needs
> another key to come back in.

I work around that by configuring hh and uu as .  Since I
(almost) always finish input by pressing one of them, the command
mode is available, so I just hit
:w 
to save.  I guess it is a matter of taste, a trade off.

> I don't know if it is possible to remap a key (say C-x-C-s) that would
> exit the "insert" mode, save the file, and then come back into the
> "insert" mode.

It is possible to record a macro, by assigning it to a key. e.g. for
key r
qr
[record what you want to do here, whatever does what you want above]
q

invoke the macro with @R or @r.

You can map keys to sequences of commands using the map command.
:map  @r

Then whenever you want to invoke the file save, just hit F2.

I haven't tried the above, but it should work.
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Re: emacs is hopeless

[Jeffrey Walton]

On Wed, Nov 15, 2023 at 10:58 AM Ranjan Maitra via users
 wrote:
>
> [...]
> I have pretty much given up on emacs now and am working to get nvim to a
> (for me) saner state. It is quite amazing how quickly we adapt to new 
> environments, though falling back to old ways of doing things,  out of 
> unthinking old habit, is why readline is important.

You might take a quick look at
, and see if any
of them meet your needs.

> My next stop: try to undo something without exiting insert mode. (Ctrl-/
> in emacs).

Pfff.. I'll be damned if I'll use a text editor that makes you do
something special to edit text, like enter insert mode.

Jeff
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Re: emacs is hopeless

[Ranjan Maitra via users]

On Wed Nov15'23 11:21:51AM, George N. White III wrote:
> From: "George N. White III" 
> Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2023 11:21:51 -0400
> To: Community support for Fedora users 
> Reply-To: Community support for Fedora users 
> Subject: Re: emacs is hopeless
>
> On Tue, Nov 14, 2023 at 6:12 PM Ranjan Maitra via users <
> users@lists.fedoraproject.org> wrote:
>
> > [...]
> >
> Still sad about having to give up on emacs, but, oh, well! ESS is not
> > really that well-supported (on Fedora, at least anymore).
> >
>
> There has been very little activity in the ESS site.  Unless someone steps
> forward to maintain
> it on new linux it may slowly die as people upgrade their systems.
>

Right, there is still some activity on the github site (five months
ago), but the RPM no longer builds on Fedora (I tried it a couple of
days ago with the updated github versio).

I have pretty much given up on emacs now and am working to get nvim to a
(for me) saner state. It is quite amazing how quickly we adapt to new 
environments, though falling back to old ways of doing things,  out of 
unthinking old habit, is why readline is important.

My next stop: try to undo something without exiting insert mode. (Ctrl-/
in emacs).

Best wishes,
Ranjan


>
> --
> George N. White III

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Re: emacs is hopeless

[George N. White III]

On Wed, Nov 15, 2023 at 5:14 AM Tim via users 
wrote:

>
> Aha.  I had been using dd as a delete for a long time, never thought of
> it as part of a cut (and keep in a buffer).  The paste one is one I
> always forget, heck knows why since they used the letter P.  It is a
> rarity that I use it that way, so I don't remember these things.
>

If you asked me, I might not remember, but my fingers do things without me
consciously thinking about it.  They seem to understand the difference
between
vi and emacs.

-- 
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Re: emacs is hopeless

[George N. White III]

On Tue, Nov 14, 2023 at 6:12 PM Ranjan Maitra via users <
users@lists.fedoraproject.org> wrote:

> [...]
>
Still sad about having to give up on emacs, but, oh, well! ESS is not
> really that well-supported (on Fedora, at least anymore).
>

There has been very little activity in the ESS site.  Unless someone steps
forward to maintain
it on new linux it may slowly die as people upgrade their systems.



-- 
George N. White III
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Re: emacs is hopeless

[Tim via users]

Tim:
>> Gvim fits that bill, and I can manage to use vim over ssh without a GUI
>> when I need to fix things up, though I can never remember how to do cut
>> and paste that way.
  

home user:
> Tim, I hope I'm not misunderstanding you, but in (g)vim,
> the "dd" command deletes (cuts) the lines, and then
> 'p' pastes the cut lines below the cursor, 'P' pastes them above the cursor.

Aha.  I had been using dd as a delete for a long time, never thought of
it as part of a cut (and keep in a buffer).  The paste one is one I
always forget, heck knows why since they used the letter P.  It is a
rarity that I use it that way, so I don't remember these things.

It's always the obvious things.
 
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Re: emacs is hopeless

[Felix Miata]

Ranjan Maitra via users composed on 2023-11-14 13:26 (UTC-0600):

> What really irritates me about vi and its friends is that it throws you
> out of editing (insert) mode in order to save the file, and needs
> another key to come back in.

I suppose mcedit, from within or without mc, or filecommander's editor, are not
your cup of tea either, perhaps too much like nano? I primarly use both, more
often fc's in X, (not available without), rarely vi, and nano only when my
primaries are unavailable (as in a limited environment), and emacs as yet, 
never.
-- 
Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion,
based on faith, not based on science.

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata
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Re: emacs is hopeless

[home user]

On 11/14/23 7:29 PM, Tim via users wrote:

On Tue, 2023-11-14 at 13:26 -0600, Ranjan Maitra via users wrote:

[... snip ...]> Gvim fits that bill, and I can manage to use

vim over ssh without a GUI when I need to fix things up, though I can
never remember how to do cut and paste that way.
  

Tim, I hope I'm not misunderstanding you, but in (g)vim,
the "dd" command deletes (cuts) the lines, and then
'p' pastes the cut lines below the cursor, 'P' pastes them above the cursor.

Bill.
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Re: emacs is hopeless

[Tim via users]

On Tue, 2023-11-14 at 13:26 -0600, Ranjan Maitra via users wrote:
> What really irritates me about vi and its friends is that it throws you
> out of editing (insert) mode in order to save the file, and needs
> another key to come back in.

That's one thing I like about gvim, you can just click a save button. 
That and being able to use the mouse.  And yet, you still have all the
other keyboard-only things that traditional vi users want.

I'm not a hard-core user, but because I edit a lot of text files
related to web-serving, I like an editor that fires up in a flash, and
isn't over-simplified.  Gvim fits that bill, and I can manage to use
vim over ssh without a GUI when I need to fix things up, though I can
never remember how to do cut and paste that way.
 
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Re: emacs is hopeless

[Ranjan Maitra via users]

On Tue Nov14'23 06:02:27PM, George N. White III wrote:
> From: "George N. White III" 
> Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2023 18:02:27 -0400
> To: Community support for Fedora users 
> Reply-To: Community support for Fedora users 
> Subject: Re: emacs is hopeless
>
> On Tue, Nov 14, 2023 at 3:26 PM Ranjan Maitra via users <
> users@lists.fedoraproject.org> wrote:
>
> >
> > Indeed, the culprit appears to have been the emacs-ess package, which
> > was creating issues even with it not being called.
> >
> > Unfortunately, for me, emacs-ess was the main selling point of emacs,
> > and with that rendering emacs unusable, it appears that I will have to
> > move on to nvim which has a good R interface.
> >
>
> From https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/EmacsSpeaksStatistics: Fun Fact:
> Many current RStudio users, (like Jenny Bryan) used to be ESS users!
>
> I'm a member of that ESS to RStudio crowd, but my use case hs changed from
> writing R code to maintenance, and many colleagues working in enterprise
> environments where access to linux is command-line on data center servers,
> but
> they do have R-studio-server and Jupyer that can be used with web browser
> in
> Windows.

Thanks! I do not care for Rstudio. In my experience, it is **slow**, and wastes 
all the time I gain by
using a WM (non-DE).

But I think I found my answer to the nvim keybinding I would like here:
https://superuser.com/questions/88432/save-in-insert-mode-vim

inoremap  :w

That is good.

Still sad about having to give up on emacs, but, oh, well! ESS is not
really that well-supported (on Fedora, at least anymore).

Ranjan
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Re: emacs is hopeless

[George N. White III]

On Tue, Nov 14, 2023 at 3:26 PM Ranjan Maitra via users <
users@lists.fedoraproject.org> wrote:

>
> Indeed, the culprit appears to have been the emacs-ess package, which
> was creating issues even with it not being called.
>
> Unfortunately, for me, emacs-ess was the main selling point of emacs,
> and with that rendering emacs unusable, it appears that I will have to
> move on to nvim which has a good R interface.
>

>From https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/EmacsSpeaksStatistics: Fun Fact:
Many current RStudio users, (like Jenny Bryan) used to be ESS users!

I'm a member of that ESS to RStudio crowd, but my use case hs changed from
writing R code to maintenance, and many colleagues working in enterprise
environments where access to linux is command-line on data center servers,
but
they do have R-studio-server and Jupyer that can be used with web browser
in
Windows.

-- 
George N. White III
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Re: [Off List] Re: emacs is hopeless

[Ranjan Maitra via users]

On Wed Nov15'23 08:38:07AM, Stephen Morris wrote:
> From: Stephen Morris 
> Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2023 08:38:07 +1100
> To: users@lists.fedoraproject.org
> Reply-To: Community support for Fedora users 
> Subject: Re: [Off List] Re: emacs is hopeless
>
> On 15/11/23 06:36, Joe Zeff wrote:
> > On 11/14/2023 12:26 PM, Ranjan Maitra via users wrote:
> > > What really irritates me about vi and its friends is that it throws you
> > > out of editing (insert) mode in order to save the file, and needs
> > > another key to come back in.
> >
> > You might want to consider nano; the most common commands are listed at
> > the bottom of the window, including the one needed to get to the rest of
> > them.
> The one issue I've found with nano, which might be my lack of understanding
> of it, is you can't paste anything in that has been copied outside of nano,
> the paste listed at the bottom of the window does nothing in this scenario.
>

Thanks, everyone! I have used nano as part of the pine program in
ancient times (never really realized it was an editor, until my students
started using it) as part of the UW produced ecosystem (I am a UW
product from around that time it was developed there). It can perhaps do
syntax highlighting, but I am also looking for C mode, python mode, TeX mode, 
completions and the like which make
editors such as emacs (or vi) so much more powerful.

I have been trying to overcome my aversion to vi(m) and have been using
nvim now for the past several hours. I have recovered at least a few of my
keybindings (really readline things), and I presume I can figure out a better 
way
of dealing with the fact that we have to constantly move between insert
mode and some other mode just to occassionally save a file (in emacs,
I got used to pressing Ctrl-x-Ctrl-s every few minutes just to save
things while typing).

Thanks again!

Best wishes,
Ranjan
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Re: [Off List] Re: emacs is hopeless

[Stephen Morris]

On 15/11/23 06:36, Joe Zeff wrote:

On 11/14/2023 12:26 PM, Ranjan Maitra via users wrote:

What really irritates me about vi and its friends is that it throws you
out of editing (insert) mode in order to save the file, and needs
another key to come back in.


You might want to consider nano; the most common commands are listed 
at the bottom of the window, including the one needed to get to the 
rest of them.
The one issue I've found with nano, which might be my lack of 
understanding of it, is you can't paste anything in that has been copied 
outside of nano, the paste listed at the bottom of the window does 
nothing in this scenario.


regards,
Steve


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Re: emacs is hopeless

[Joe Zeff]

On 11/14/2023 01:40 PM, Tom Horsley wrote:

The problem appears to be wayland, I thought I had tested under
x11 and wayland, but gnome was sneaking a wayland session
into existence behind my back. When I really managed to start
in x11 for sure, emacs no longer seemed wacky.


Two suggestions: first, after a clean boot, switch to a text console, 
log in there and see what happens.  Second, install a DE that doesn't 
use Wayland (I like Xfce, but there are many others.) and start a 
session in that to make sure that Wayland can't be involved and again, 
see what happens.  If the bug manifests in either one, you know that the 
bug is in emacs not your GUI.

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Re: emacs is hopeless

[Tom Horsley]

Incidentally, I've updated my bugzilla:

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2249379

The problem appears to be wayland, I thought I had tested under
x11 and wayland, but gnome was sneaking a wayland session
into existence behind my back. When I really managed to start
in x11 for sure, emacs no longer seemed wacky.
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Re: [Off List] Re: emacs is hopeless

[Andras Simon]

2023-11-14 20:36 UTC+01:00, Joe Zeff :
> On 11/14/2023 12:26 PM, Ranjan Maitra via users wrote:
>> What really irritates me about vi and its friends is that it throws you
>> out of editing (insert) mode in order to save the file, and needs
>> another key to come back in.
>
> You might want to consider nano; the most common commands are listed at
> the bottom of the window, including the one needed to get to the rest of
> them.

If his problem was finding the right keys, he'd continue to use emacs.
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[Off List] Re: emacs is hopeless

[Joe Zeff]

On 11/14/2023 12:26 PM, Ranjan Maitra via users wrote:

What really irritates me about vi and its friends is that it throws you
out of editing (insert) mode in order to save the file, and needs
another key to come back in.


You might want to consider nano; the most common commands are listed at 
the bottom of the window, including the one needed to get to the rest of 
them.

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Re: emacs is hopeless

[Ranjan Maitra via users]

On Mon Nov13'23 11:41:28AM, George N. White III wrote:
> From: "George N. White III" 
> Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2023 11:41:28 -0400
> To: Community support for Fedora users 
> Reply-To: Community support for Fedora users 
> Subject: Re: emacs is hopeless
>
> On Mon, Nov 13, 2023 at 9:04 AM Ranjan Maitra via users <
> users@lists.fedoraproject.org> wrote:
>
> > [...]
> > I also tried emacs-nox and have the same problem. Removing my .emacs did
> > not have any effect.
> >
> I do not mess with my system files so I am a bit confused as to how to
> > track this down. Is there a
> >
> verbose mode which allows me to see what to do?
> >
>
> Try running emacs as newly created user to rule out something in your
> ~/.emacs.d or some
> shell startup script creating variables that confuse emacs. Have you tried
> "emacs -nw" for text mode
> to rule out a GUI issue?
>
> It might help to have a simple example with a description of what happens.
> If emacs is failing due to
> some conflict with libraries you might see an error with journalctl.  Make
> a note of the time the error
> occurs to help identify related errors.
>
>
> >
> > I have emacs-ess also installed (from Fedora 36) that has not been updated
> > and is probably obsolete or retired.
> >
>
> Probably good to remove that old package.  You can reinstall from upstream
> source if Fedora 39 doesn't have a
> package.

Indeed, the culprit appears to have been the emacs-ess package, which
was creating issues even with it not being called.

Unfortunately, for me, emacs-ess was the main selling point of emacs,
and with that rendering emacs unusable, it appears that I will have to
move on to nvim which has a good R interface.

What really irritates me about vi and its friends is that it throws you
out of editing (insert) mode in order to save the file, and needs
another key to come back in.

I don't know if it is possible to remap a key (say C-x-C-s) that would
exit the "insert" mode, save the file, and then come back into the
"insert" mode.

Anyway, this is an off-topic question. At least it appears that I found
the cause of my problems.

Many thanks,
Ranjan
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Re: emacs is hopeless

[George N. White III]

On Mon, Nov 13, 2023 at 9:04 AM Ranjan Maitra via users <
users@lists.fedoraproject.org> wrote:

> [...]
> I also tried emacs-nox and have the same problem. Removing my .emacs did
> not have any effect.
>
I do not mess with my system files so I am a bit confused as to how to
> track this down. Is there a
>
verbose mode which allows me to see what to do?
>

Try running emacs as newly created user to rule out something in your
~/.emacs.d or some
shell startup script creating variables that confuse emacs. Have you tried
"emacs -nw" for text mode
to rule out a GUI issue?

It might help to have a simple example with a description of what happens.
If emacs is failing due to
some conflict with libraries you might see an error with journalctl.  Make
a note of the time the error
occurs to help identify related errors.


>
> I have emacs-ess also installed (from Fedora 36) that has not been updated
> and is probably obsolete or retired.
>

Probably good to remove that old package.  You can reinstall from upstream
source if Fedora 39 doesn't have a
package.

-- 
George N. White III
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Re: emacs is hopeless

[Ranjan Maitra via users]

On Mon Nov13'23 07:55:04AM, Neal Becker wrote:
> From: Neal Becker 
> Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2023 07:55:04 -0500
> To: Community support for Fedora users 
> Reply-To: Community support for Fedora users 
> Subject: Re: emacs is hopeless
>
> On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 12:17 PM Tom Horsley  wrote:
>
> > I reported strange things with emacs earlier, but I thought it might be
> > something wrong with my partially configured system.
> >
> > Nope, it is just plain busted. I've added this bug report:
> >
> > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2249379
> >
> > I guess I'll have to try building from the fedora 38 source rpm
> > on fedora 39 and see if I can get a working emacs that way.
> >
>
> It emacs all day every day here, same as the last 30? years.
>
> I'm using [copr:copr.fedorainfracloud.org:bhavin192:emacs-pretest] on 1
> machine, although the stock emacs on another machine is working also.

I also tried emacs-nox and have the same problem. Removing my .emacs did not 
have any effect. I do not mess with my system files so I am a bit confused as 
to how to track this down. Is there a verbose mode which allows me to see what 
to do?

I have emacs-ess also installed (from Fedora 36) that has not been updated and 
is probably obsolete or retired.

Best wishes,
Ranjan


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Re: emacs is hopeless

[Neal Becker]

On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 12:17 PM Tom Horsley  wrote:

> I reported strange things with emacs earlier, but I thought it might be
> something wrong with my partially configured system.
>
> Nope, it is just plain busted. I've added this bug report:
>
> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2249379
>
> I guess I'll have to try building from the fedora 38 source rpm
> on fedora 39 and see if I can get a working emacs that way.
>

It emacs all day every day here, same as the last 30? years.

I'm using [copr:copr.fedorainfracloud.org:bhavin192:emacs-pretest] on 1
machine, although the stock emacs on another machine is working also.
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Re: emacs is hopeless

[Michael Schwendt]

On Sun, 12 Nov 2023 20:50:04 -0500, Jeffrey Walton wrote:

> I have not encountered any problems (yet?).

Fedora 39 Workstation installation (so Wayland based), launching Emacs
from GNOME Shell as well as terminals. No problems yet. I apply some
font face customizations in ~/.emacs though.
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Re: emacs is hopeless

[Jeffrey Walton]

On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 12:17 PM Tom Horsley  wrote:
>
> I reported strange things with emacs earlier, but I thought it might be
> something wrong with my partially configured system.
>
> Nope, it is just plain busted. I've added this bug report:
>
> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2249379
>
> I guess I'll have to try building from the fedora 38 source rpm
> on fedora 39 and see if I can get a working emacs that way.

I use the emacs-nox package. It provides an emacs binary, and works
both interactive and over ssh.

$ ls -Al $(command -v emacs)
lrwxrwxrwx. 1 root root 23 Nov  7 19:32 /usr/bin/emacs ->
/etc/alternatives/emacs
$ ls -Al /etc/alternatives/emacs
lrwxrwxrwx. 1 root root 23 Nov  7 19:32 /etc/alternatives/emacs ->
/usr/bin/emacs-29.1-nox

I have not encountered any problems (yet?).

Jeff
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Re: emacs is hopeless

[Ranjan Maitra via users]

On Sun Nov12'23 04:12:07PM, George Avrunin wrote:
> From: George Avrunin 
> Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2023 16:12:07 -0500
> To: users@lists.fedoraproject.org
> Reply-To: Community support for Fedora users 
> Subject: Re: emacs is hopeless
>
> On 11/12/23 13:19, Ranjan Maitra via users wrote:
>
> > Thank you for this: downgrading emacs for me to 28.3 (F38) gets rid of
> > the problem that I was having, and that is, that emacs 29.1 can not load
> > a file for me (without emacs -Q).
> >
> > With emacs -Q in 29.1 (F39), I can load the file all right, but I do not
> > have the correct fonts, and I can not seem to load those.
> >
> > I wonder why emacs users have not reported my issue with 29.1 on the emacs
> > mailing list.
> >
> > Best wishes,
> > Ranjan
> >
>
> As a data point, Emacs 29.1 (from emacs-29.1-2.fc39.x86_64) in Fedora 39
> is working fine for me.  I had to upgrade a couple of the elisp packages
> I use and it seems that the very old auto-insert-tkld package that I've
> used for a long time doesn't work anymore, though I did get some
> semi-informative error messages.  (For the moment, I've just taken the
> auto-insert-tkld stuff out of my .emacs; maybe I'll try to figure that
> out later when I have more time, or set up one of the alternatives.)
> "emacs -q" worked without problems from the beginning.
>
> Since I'm using Wayland, I had to install wl-clipboard and add some code
> in .emacs to get paste with the middle mouse button into emacs to work
> (per the Emacs Wiki: https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/CopyAndPaste).  But
> everything else I've tried seems to work fine, including AUCTeX, both
> with opening new files and editing existing ones.
>
> I'm using KDE with an NVidia card and the driver from rpmfusion on my
> desktop and KDE with Intel video on a Dell laptop, also in Fedora 39.
> Emacs is ok on both machines.  I haven't tried it in X.

I see, I use the X11 window system (no desktop environment, but openbox window 
manager).

Thanks for your input!

Best wishes,
Ranjan

>
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Re: emacs is hopeless

[George Avrunin]

On 11/12/23 13:19, Ranjan Maitra via users wrote:

> Thank you for this: downgrading emacs for me to 28.3 (F38) gets rid of
> the problem that I was having, and that is, that emacs 29.1 can not load
> a file for me (without emacs -Q).
> 
> With emacs -Q in 29.1 (F39), I can load the file all right, but I do not
> have the correct fonts, and I can not seem to load those.
> 
> I wonder why emacs users have not reported my issue with 29.1 on the emacs
> mailing list.
> 
> Best wishes,
> Ranjan
> 

As a data point, Emacs 29.1 (from emacs-29.1-2.fc39.x86_64) in Fedora 39
is working fine for me.  I had to upgrade a couple of the elisp packages
I use and it seems that the very old auto-insert-tkld package that I've
used for a long time doesn't work anymore, though I did get some
semi-informative error messages.  (For the moment, I've just taken the
auto-insert-tkld stuff out of my .emacs; maybe I'll try to figure that
out later when I have more time, or set up one of the alternatives.)
"emacs -q" worked without problems from the beginning.

Since I'm using Wayland, I had to install wl-clipboard and add some code
in .emacs to get paste with the middle mouse button into emacs to work
(per the Emacs Wiki: https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/CopyAndPaste).  But
everything else I've tried seems to work fine, including AUCTeX, both
with opening new files and editing existing ones.

I'm using KDE with an NVidia card and the driver from rpmfusion on my
desktop and KDE with Intel video on a Dell laptop, also in Fedora 39.
Emacs is ok on both machines.  I haven't tried it in X.

  George

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Re: emacs is hopeless

[Jeffrey Walton]

On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 1:55 PM Tom Horsley  wrote:
>
> On Sun, 12 Nov 2023 11:46:21 -0700
> Joe Zeff wrote:
>
> > On 11/12/2023 11:33 AM, Ranjan Maitra via users wrote:
> > > On that mailing list, yes.
> >
> > Don't you think that opening a Bugzilla would be a Good Idea?
>
> I started this thread with a mention of this bugzilla:
>
> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2249379

The emacs devs were given a heads up for the Fedora bug report. An
email was sent to . See
.

(I'm an emacs user, too. I hope the problems can be sorted out quickly).

Jeff
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Re: emacs is hopeless

[Tom Horsley]

On Sun, 12 Nov 2023 11:46:21 -0700
Joe Zeff wrote:

> On 11/12/2023 11:33 AM, Ranjan Maitra via users wrote:
> > On that mailing list, yes.  
> 
> Don't you think that opening a Bugzilla would be a Good Idea?

I started this thread with a mention of this bugzilla:

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2249379
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Re: emacs is hopeless

[Joe Zeff]

On 11/12/2023 11:33 AM, Ranjan Maitra via users wrote:

On that mailing list, yes.


Don't you think that opening a Bugzilla would be a Good Idea?
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Re: emacs is hopeless

[Ranjan Maitra via users]

On Sun Nov12'23 11:22:07AM, Joe Zeff wrote:
> From: Joe Zeff 
> Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2023 11:22:07 -0700
> To: users@lists.fedoraproject.org
> Reply-To: Community support for Fedora users 
> Subject: Re: emacs is hopeless
>
> On 11/12/2023 11:19 AM, Ranjan Maitra via users wrote:
> > I wonder why emacs users have not reported my issue with 29.1 on the emacs
> > mailing list.
>
> Have you reported it?

On that mailing list, yes.

Ranjan
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Re: emacs is hopeless

[Joe Zeff]

On 11/12/2023 11:19 AM, Ranjan Maitra via users wrote:

I wonder why emacs users have not reported my issue with 29.1 on the emacs
mailing list.


Have you reported it?
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Re: emacs is hopeless

[Ranjan Maitra via users]

On Sun Nov12'23 07:04:36PM, francis.montag...@inria.fr wrote:
> From: francis.montag...@inria.fr
> Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2023 19:04:36 +0100
> To: Community support for Fedora users 
> Reply-To: Community support for Fedora users 
> Subject: Re: emacs is hopeless
>
> Hi
>
> On Sun, 12 Nov 2023 12:17:04 -0500 Tom Horsley wrote:
>
> > I reported strange things with emacs earlier, but I thought it might be
> > something wrong with my partially configured system.
>
> > Nope, it is just plain busted. I've added this bug report:
>
> > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2249379
>
> I don't have that problem myself, using also X11.
>
> Do you have it also running "emacs -Q" (I don't) ?
>
> I'm using also (not with -Q of course) a legacy terminus font, declared in
> ~/.Xdefaults as:
>
> *Font:-*-terminus-medium-*-*-*-16-*-*-*-*-*-iso10646-1
> *font:-*-terminus-medium-*-*-*-16-*-*-*-*-*-iso10646-1
>
> Install first the terminus-fonts-legacy-x11 RPM.
>
> > I guess I'll have to try building from the fedora 38 source rpm
> > on fedora 39 and see if I can get a working emacs that way.
>
> You can also try to downgrade with:
>
>   dnf --releasever=38 downgrade emacs
>
> dnf accept this, emacs (28.3) starts properly.

Thank you for this: downgrading emacs for me to 28.3 (F38) gets rid of
the problem that I was having, and that is, that emacs 29.1 can not load
a file for me (without emacs -Q).

With emacs -Q in 29.1 (F39), I can load the file all right, but I do not
have the correct fonts, and I can not seem to load those.

I wonder why emacs users have not reported my issue with 29.1 on the emacs
mailing list.

Best wishes,
Ranjan

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Re: emacs is hopeless

[Francis . Montagnac]

Hi

On Sun, 12 Nov 2023 12:17:04 -0500 Tom Horsley wrote:

> I reported strange things with emacs earlier, but I thought it might be
> something wrong with my partially configured system.

> Nope, it is just plain busted. I've added this bug report:

> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2249379

I don't have that problem myself, using also X11.

Do you have it also running "emacs -Q" (I don't) ?

I'm using also (not with -Q of course) a legacy terminus font, declared in
~/.Xdefaults as:

*Font:  -*-terminus-medium-*-*-*-16-*-*-*-*-*-iso10646-1
*font:  -*-terminus-medium-*-*-*-16-*-*-*-*-*-iso10646-1

Install first the terminus-fonts-legacy-x11 RPM.

> I guess I'll have to try building from the fedora 38 source rpm
> on fedora 39 and see if I can get a working emacs that way.

You can also try to downgrade with:

  dnf --releasever=38 downgrade emacs

dnf accept this, emacs (28.3) starts properly.

-- 
francis
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emacs is hopeless

[Tom Horsley]

I reported strange things with emacs earlier, but I thought it might be
something wrong with my partially configured system.

Nope, it is just plain busted. I've added this bug report:

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2249379

I guess I'll have to try building from the fedora 38 source rpm
on fedora 39 and see if I can get a working emacs that way.
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