Re: [Scilab-users] Toolboxes startup

2021-04-28 Thread Stéphane Mottelet 

So, did you understand the concept of a journal ?

S.

Le 26/04/2021 à 16:26, Stéphane Mottelet a écrit :



Le 26/04/2021 à 15:15, Samuel Gougeon a écrit :

Le 26/04/2021 à 14:51, Samuel Gougeon a écrit :

Le 26/04/2021 à 14:15, Stéphane Mottelet a écrit :

.../...

Such a wish was reported 10 years ago as bug 6801 
.


To me, the only way to overcome any mprintf or disp made in 
*.start files of external modules would be to become able to 
redirect the standard output to null (or anywhere else as in a 
file, as with diary, that forks the stream instead of redirecting it).
I don't think that %toolboxes aims to become public. 
atomsGetInstalled() and atomsGetLoaded() (and others) would likely 
be more suited to test the atoms status.


For contribution,
Samuel


Yeah that's the idea. But better than redirection of the standard 
output, all the stuff displayed in the .start file should go in a 
Journal, to which display methods can be associated. So instead of 
explicitely calling disp or mprinf, etc. the .start script should 
just add some stuff + associated verbosity level to the journal. 
What would be actually really displayed


Whatever is the method -- redirection of stdout to a file or special 
diary  --, i am afraid that the analysis of contents vs verbosity 
would then be done only after completing the whole loading process.
This would prevent displaying information in a progressive way : 
immediately after loading macros, then after loading the 
documentation, etc... that will anyway be required in some occasion.


A Journal is not a diary, neither a redirection to a file and there is 
no analysis of content for verbosity of user output. The verbosity is 
chosen when creating the journal. Here is a small example of what I meant:


function  j=journal(level, fun)
 j  =  mlist(["journal","level","displayfun"],level,fun)
endfunction

function  out=%journal_e(varargin)
 j  =  varargin($);
 level  =  varargin(1);
 if  level  <=  j.level
 j.displayfun(varargin(2:$-1));
 end
 out=[];
endfunction

function  loadmacros(jnl)
 jnl(3,"\t Warning library MD5SUM invalid 
abf4bffa3651a44fdd550e2dbffbe912\n")

 jnl(3,"\t-->Warning, macros are obsolete, rebuild lib please\n")
endfunction

function  loadhelp(jnl)
 jnl(3,"\t-->Help files traduction courtesy of W. Shakespeare\n")
endfunction

function  loaddemos(jnl)
 jnl(3,"\t-->TODO: awesome demo missing\n")
endfunction

function  start(jnl)
 jnl(1,"Start Apifun %s\n","0.4")
 jnl(2,"\tLoad macros\n")
 loadmacros(jnl)
 jnl(2,"\tLoad help\n")
 loadhelp(jnl)
 jnl(2,"\tLoad demos\n")
 loaddemos(jnl)
endfunction

console1  =  journal(1,mprintf);
console2  =  journal(2,mprintf);
console3  =  journal(3,mprintf);

mprintf("\n-Level 1-\n\n")
start(console1)

mprintf("\n-Level 2-\n\n")
start(console2)

mprintf("\n-Level 3-\n\n")
start(console3) -Level 1- Start Apifun 0.4 -Level 2- 
Start Apifun 0.4 Load macros Load help Load demos -Level 3- 
Start Apifun 0.4 Load macros Warning library MD5SUM invalid 
abf4bffa3651a44fdd550e2dbffbe912 --> Warning, macros are obsolete, 
rebuild lib please Load help --> Help files traduction courtesy of W. 
Shakespeare Load demos --> TODO: awesome demo missing S.





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Ingénieur de recherche
EA 4297 Transformations Intégrées de la Matière Renouvelable
Département Génie des Procédés Industriels
Sorbonne Universités - Université de Technologie de Compiègne
CS 60319, 60203 Compiègne cedex
Tel : +33(0)344234688
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--
Stéphane Mottelet
Ingénieur de recherche
EA 4297 Transformations Intégrées de la Matière Renouvelable
Département Génie des Procédés Industriels
Sorbonne Universités - Université de Technologie de Compiègne
CS 60319, 60203 Compiègne cedex
Tel : +33(0)344234688
http://www.utc.fr/~mottelet

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Re: [Scilab-users] Toolboxes startup

2021-04-26 Thread Stéphane Mottelet 


Le 26/04/2021 à 15:15, Samuel Gougeon a écrit :

Le 26/04/2021 à 14:51, Samuel Gougeon a écrit :

Le 26/04/2021 à 14:15, Stéphane Mottelet a écrit :

.../...

Such a wish was reported 10 years ago as bug 6801 
.


To me, the only way to overcome any mprintf or disp made in *.start 
files of external modules would be to become able to redirect the 
standard output to null (or anywhere else as in a file, as with 
diary, that forks the stream instead of redirecting it).
I don't think that %toolboxes aims to become public. 
atomsGetInstalled() and atomsGetLoaded() (and others) would likely 
be more suited to test the atoms status.


For contribution,
Samuel


Yeah that's the idea. But better than redirection of the standard 
output, all the stuff displayed in the .start file should go in a 
Journal, to which display methods can be associated. So instead of 
explicitely calling disp or mprinf, etc. the .start script should 
just add some stuff + associated verbosity level to the journal. 
What would be actually really displayed


Whatever is the method -- redirection of stdout to a file or special 
diary  --, i am afraid that the analysis of contents vs verbosity 
would then be done only after completing the whole loading process.
This would prevent displaying information in a progressive way : 
immediately after loading macros, then after loading the 
documentation, etc... that will anyway be required in some occasion.


A Journal is not a diary, neither a redirection to a file and there is 
no analysis of content for verbosity of user output. The verbosity is 
chosen when creating the journal. Here is a small example of what I meant:


function  j=journal(level, fun)
j  =  mlist(["journal","level","displayfun"],level,fun)
endfunction

function  out=%journal_e(varargin)
j  =  varargin($);
level  =  varargin(1);
if  level  <=  j.level
j.displayfun(varargin(2:$-1));
end
out=[];
endfunction

function  loadmacros(jnl)
jnl(3,"\t Warning library MD5SUM invalid 
abf4bffa3651a44fdd550e2dbffbe912\n")

jnl(3,"\t-->Warning, macros are obsolete, rebuild lib please\n")
endfunction

function  loadhelp(jnl)
jnl(3,"\t-->Help files traduction courtesy of W. Shakespeare\n")
endfunction

function  loaddemos(jnl)
jnl(3,"\t-->TODO: awesome demo missing\n")
endfunction

function  start(jnl)
jnl(1,"Start Apifun %s\n","0.4")
jnl(2,"\tLoad macros\n")
loadmacros(jnl)
jnl(2,"\tLoad help\n")
loadhelp(jnl)
jnl(2,"\tLoad demos\n")
loaddemos(jnl)
endfunction

console1  =  journal(1,mprintf);
console2  =  journal(2,mprintf);
console3  =  journal(3,mprintf);

mprintf("\n-Level 1-\n\n")
start(console1)

mprintf("\n-Level 2-\n\n")
start(console2)

mprintf("\n-Level 3-\n\n")
start(console3) -Level 1- Start Apifun 0.4 -Level 2- 
Start Apifun 0.4 Load macros Load help Load demos -Level 3- 
Start Apifun 0.4 Load macros Warning library MD5SUM invalid 
abf4bffa3651a44fdd550e2dbffbe912 --> Warning, macros are obsolete, 
rebuild lib please Load help --> Help files traduction courtesy of W. 
Shakespeare Load demos --> TODO: awesome demo missing S.





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--
Stéphane Mottelet
Ingénieur de recherche
EA 4297 Transformations Intégrées de la Matière Renouvelable
Département Génie des Procédés Industriels
Sorbonne Universités - Université de Technologie de Compiègne
CS 60319, 60203 Compiègne cedex
Tel : +33(0)344234688
http://www.utc.fr/~mottelet

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Re: [Scilab-users] Toolboxes startup

2021-04-26 Thread Clément David 
It is not documented but there is some reference to it on atomsLoad and 
etc/Scilab.start . IMHO we can make it widely available and document it for 
this usage.

Clément

From: users  On Behalf Of Stéphane Mottelet
Sent: Monday, April 26, 2021 11:38 AM
To: users@lists.scilab.org
Subject: Re: [Scilab-users] Toolboxes startup


Is %toolboxes already used ? If so where is it documented ?

S.
Le 26/04/2021 à 10:57, Clément David a écrit :
Hi all,

Thanks for the proposal Stephane, this is a good idea!

As a reminder, currently each toolbox is free to display anything at startup 
and the toolbox skeleton provides a default “Start ” + TOOLBOX_NAME then 
display information that ease development (gateways, help and so on). Migrating 
to another display is only a matter of convention, for example by checking if 
the global %toolboxes variable is available than do not display anything.

Clément

From: users 
<mailto:users-boun...@lists.scilab.org> On 
Behalf Of Stéphane Mottelet
Sent: Monday, April 26, 2021 9:42 AM
To: Users mailing list for Scilab 
<mailto:users@lists.scilab.org>
Subject: [Scilab-users] Toolboxes startup


Hi all,

I just made available for macOS and Linux the toolboxes stixbox depends upon 
for macOS (distfun and linalg) and my remark is that when a lot of modules are 
loaded at startup then the output can become very long and sometimes messy, 
since we don't impose a normalized output:

Scilab branch-6.1 (Apr 19 2021, 23:19:29)

Start Distfun

Start Helptbx

Start Specfun

Start Makematrix

Start Apifun
Load macros
Type "help apifun_overview" for a quick start.

Start Linalg

Start Stixbox

I would rather expect something like:



Scilab branch-6.1 (Apr 19 2021, 23:19:29)

Start modules: Distfun, Helptbx, Specfun, Makematrix, Apifun, Linalg, Stixbox.

-->

The verbosity level of the output (with the above default)  could be defined in 
user preferences, and checked in module startup script in order to output the 
required amount of information.

That's just a propostion to be discussed, of course.

S.

--

Stéphane Mottelet

Ingénieur de recherche

EA 4297 Transformations Intégrées de la Matière Renouvelable

Département Génie des Procédés Industriels

Sorbonne Universités - Université de Technologie de Compiègne

CS 60319, 60203 Compiègne cedex

Tel : +33(0)344234688

http://www.utc.fr/~mottelet<https://antispam.utc.fr/proxy/1/c3RlcGhhbmUubW90dGVsZXRAdXRjLmZy/www.utc.fr/~mottelet>



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--

Stéphane Mottelet

Ingénieur de recherche

EA 4297 Transformations Intégrées de la Matière Renouvelable

Département Génie des Procédés Industriels

Sorbonne Universités - Université de Technologie de Compiègne

CS 60319, 60203 Compiègne cedex

Tel : +33(0)344234688

http://www.utc.fr/~mottelet
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Re: [Scilab-users] Toolboxes startup

2021-04-26 Thread Samuel Gougeon 

Le 26/04/2021 à 14:51, Samuel Gougeon a écrit :

Le 26/04/2021 à 14:15, Stéphane Mottelet a écrit :

.../...

Such a wish was reported 10 years ago as bug 6801 
.


To me, the only way to overcome any mprintf or disp made in *.start 
files of external modules would be to become able to redirect the 
standard output to null (or anywhere else as in a file, as with 
diary, that forks the stream instead of redirecting it).
I don't think that %toolboxes aims to become public. 
atomsGetInstalled() and atomsGetLoaded() (and others) would likely 
be more suited to test the atoms status.


For contribution,
Samuel


Yeah that's the idea. But better than redirection of the standard 
output, all the stuff displayed in the .start file should go in a 
Journal, to which display methods can be associated. So instead of 
explicitely calling disp or mprinf, etc. the .start script should 
just add some stuff + associated verbosity level to the journal. What 
would be actually really displayed


Whatever is the method -- redirection of stdout to a file or special 
diary  --, i am afraid that the analysis of contents vs verbosity would 
then be done only after completing the whole loading process.
This would prevent displaying information in a progressive way : 
immediately after loading macros, then after loading the documentation, 
etc... that will anyway be required in some occasion.



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Re: [Scilab-users] Toolboxes startup

2021-04-26 Thread Samuel Gougeon 

Le 26/04/2021 à 14:15, Stéphane Mottelet a écrit :

.../...

Such a wish was reported 10 years ago as bug 6801 
.


To me, the only way to overcome any mprintf or disp made in *.start 
files of external modules would be to become able to redirect the 
standard output to null (or anywhere else as in a file, as with 
diary, that forks the stream instead of redirecting it).
I don't think that %toolboxes aims to become public. 
atomsGetInstalled() and atomsGetLoaded() (and others) would likely be 
more suited to test the atoms status.


For contribution,
Samuel


Yeah that's the idea. But better than redirection of the standard 
output, all the stuff displayed in the .start file should go in a 
Journal, to which display methods can be associated. So instead of 
explicitely calling disp or mprinf, etc. the .start script should just 
add some stuff + associated verbosity level to the journal. What would 
be actually really displayed will depend on the level of the used 
Journal. That's the way the output is controlled in Ipopt, for example 
(but at the C++ level).


We can't prevent authors to actually add and use mprintf or/and disp in 
their .start external file. They will be always free to use such 
statements  in the .start file template instanciated for their actual 
toolbox.
Now, if for instance a special syntax and parsing on .start comments is 
proposed, it could be comprehensive enough to be actually and 
exclusively used.
But, likely, only static information would be possible in comments. 
Formatted information like with printf placeholders could not be provided.


By the way, i am not sure that the most compact display should be the 
default mode. Out of the only module name, information displayed when 
loading might be important.


We tend to consider these displays as boring. But i am wondering that 
this is because loading can be quite long... unrelated to the display.
When working afterward in the session, any displayed matrix or handle 
gets most often immediately taller in the console than any initial 
autoloading information (that occurs only once).

So, to me, this is not really critical.

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Re: [Scilab-users] Toolboxes startup

2021-04-26 Thread Stéphane Mottelet 

Hello again,

Le 26/04/2021 à 12:38, Samuel Gougeon a écrit :

Hello,

Le 26/04/2021 à 09:41, Stéphane Mottelet a écrit :


Hi all,

I just made available for macOS and Linux the toolboxes stixbox 
depends upon for macOS (distfun and linalg) and my remark is that 
when a lot of modules are loaded at startup then the output can 
become very long and sometimes messy, since we don't impose a 
normalized output:


*Scilab branch-6.1 (Apr 19 2021, 23:19:29)**
*

*Start Distfun**
**
**Start Helptbx**
**
**Start Specfun**
**
**Start Makematrix**
**
**Start Apifun**
**    Load macros**
**    Type "help apifun_overview" for a quick start.**
**
**Start Linalg**
**
**Start Stixbox*

I would rather expect something like:


*Scilab branch-6.1 (Apr 19 2021, 23:19:29)**
*

*Start modules: Distfun, Helptbx, Specfun, Makematrix, Apifun, 
Linalg, Stixbox.*


*--> *

The verbosity level of the output (with the above default) could be 
defined in user preferences, and checked in module startup script in 
order to output the required amount of information.


That's just a propostion to be discussed, of course.



Such a wish was reported 10 years ago as bug 6801 
.


To me, the only way to overcome any mprintf or disp made in *.start 
files of external modules would be to become able to redirect the 
standard output to null (or anywhere else as in a file, as with diary, 
that forks the stream instead of redirecting it).
I don't think that %toolboxes aims to become public. 
atomsGetInstalled() and atomsGetLoaded() (and others) would likely be 
more suited to test the atoms status.


For contribution,
Samuel


Yeah that's the idea. But better than redirection of the standard 
output, all the stuff displayed in the .start file should go in a 
Journal, to which display methods can be associated. So instead of 
explicitely calling disp or mprinf, etc. the .start script should just 
add some stuff + associated verbosity level to the journal. What would 
be actually really displayed will depend on the level of the used 
Journal. That's the way the output is controlled in Ipopt, for example 
(but at the C++ level).


S.





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--
Stéphane Mottelet
Ingénieur de recherche
EA 4297 Transformations Intégrées de la Matière Renouvelable
Département Génie des Procédés Industriels
Sorbonne Universités - Université de Technologie de Compiègne
CS 60319, 60203 Compiègne cedex
Tel : +33(0)344234688
http://www.utc.fr/~mottelet

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Re: [Scilab-users] Toolboxes startup

2021-04-26 Thread Samuel Gougeon 

Hello,

Le 26/04/2021 à 09:41, Stéphane Mottelet a écrit :


Hi all,

I just made available for macOS and Linux the toolboxes stixbox 
depends upon for macOS (distfun and linalg) and my remark is that when 
a lot of modules are loaded at startup then the output can become very 
long and sometimes messy, since we don't impose a normalized output:


*Scilab branch-6.1 (Apr 19 2021, 23:19:29)**
*

*Start Distfun**
**
**Start Helptbx**
**
**Start Specfun**
**
**Start Makematrix**
**
**Start Apifun**
**    Load macros**
**    Type "help apifun_overview" for a quick start.**
**
**Start Linalg**
**
**Start Stixbox*

I would rather expect something like:


*Scilab branch-6.1 (Apr 19 2021, 23:19:29)**
*

*Start modules: Distfun, Helptbx, Specfun, Makematrix, Apifun, Linalg, 
Stixbox.*


*--> *

The verbosity level of the output (with the above default) could be 
defined in user preferences, and checked in module startup script in 
order to output the required amount of information.


That's just a propostion to be discussed, of course.



Such a wish was reported 10 years ago as bug 6801 
.


To me, the only way to overcome any mprintf or disp made in *.start 
files of external modules would be to become able to redirect the 
standard output to null (or anywhere else as in a file, as with diary, 
that forks the stream instead of redirecting it).
I don't think that %toolboxes aims to become public. atomsGetInstalled() 
and atomsGetLoaded() (and others) would likely be more suited to test 
the atoms status.


For contribution,
Samuel

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Re: [Scilab-users] Toolboxes startup

2021-04-26 Thread Stéphane Mottelet 

Is %toolboxes already used ? If so where is it documented ?

S.

Le 26/04/2021 à 10:57, Clément David a écrit :


Hi all,

Thanks for the proposal Stephane, this is a good idea!

As a reminder, currently each toolbox is free to display anything at 
startup and the toolbox skeleton provides a default “Start ” + 
TOOLBOX_NAME then display information that ease development (gateways, 
help and so on). Migrating to another display is only a matter of 
convention, for example by checking if the global %toolboxes variable 
is available than do not display anything.


Clément

*From:* users  *On Behalf Of *Stéphane 
Mottelet

*Sent:* Monday, April 26, 2021 9:42 AM
*To:* Users mailing list for Scilab 
*Subject:* [Scilab-users] Toolboxes startup

Hi all,

I just made available for macOS and Linux the toolboxes stixbox 
depends upon for macOS (distfun and linalg) and my remark is that when 
a lot of modules are loaded at startup then the output can become very 
long and sometimes messy, since we don't impose a normalized output:


*Scilab branch-6.1 (Apr 19 2021, 23:19:29)*

*Start Distfun

Start Helptbx

Start Specfun

Start Makematrix

Start Apifun
    Load macros
    Type "help apifun_overview" for a quick start.

Start Linalg

Start Stixbox*

I would rather expect something like:

*Scilab branch-6.1 (Apr 19 2021, 23:19:29)*

*Start modules: Distfun, Helptbx, Specfun, Makematrix, Apifun, Linalg, 
Stixbox.*


*--> *

The verbosity level of the output (with the above default) could be 
defined in user preferences, and checked in module startup script in 
order to output the required amount of information.


That's just a propostion to be discussed, of course.

S.

--
Stéphane Mottelet
Ingénieur de recherche
EA 4297 Transformations Intégrées de la Matière Renouvelable
Département Génie des Procédés Industriels
Sorbonne Universités - Université de Technologie de Compiègne
CS 60319, 60203 Compiègne cedex
Tel : +33(0)344234688
http://www.utc.fr/~mottelet  
<https://antispam.utc.fr/proxy/1/c3RlcGhhbmUubW90dGVsZXRAdXRjLmZy/www.utc.fr/~mottelet>

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--
Stéphane Mottelet
Ingénieur de recherche
EA 4297 Transformations Intégrées de la Matière Renouvelable
Département Génie des Procédés Industriels
Sorbonne Universités - Université de Technologie de Compiègne
CS 60319, 60203 Compiègne cedex
Tel : +33(0)344234688
http://www.utc.fr/~mottelet

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Re: [Scilab-users] Toolboxes startup

2021-04-26 Thread Clément David 
Hi all,

Thanks for the proposal Stephane, this is a good idea!

As a reminder, currently each toolbox is free to display anything at startup 
and the toolbox skeleton provides a default “Start ” + TOOLBOX_NAME then 
display information that ease development (gateways, help and so on). Migrating 
to another display is only a matter of convention, for example by checking if 
the global %toolboxes variable is available than do not display anything.

Clément

From: users  On Behalf Of Stéphane Mottelet
Sent: Monday, April 26, 2021 9:42 AM
To: Users mailing list for Scilab 
Subject: [Scilab-users] Toolboxes startup


Hi all,

I just made available for macOS and Linux the toolboxes stixbox depends upon 
for macOS (distfun and linalg) and my remark is that when a lot of modules are 
loaded at startup then the output can become very long and sometimes messy, 
since we don't impose a normalized output:

Scilab branch-6.1 (Apr 19 2021, 23:19:29)

Start Distfun

Start Helptbx

Start Specfun

Start Makematrix

Start Apifun
Load macros
Type "help apifun_overview" for a quick start.

Start Linalg

Start Stixbox

I would rather expect something like:



Scilab branch-6.1 (Apr 19 2021, 23:19:29)

Start modules: Distfun, Helptbx, Specfun, Makematrix, Apifun, Linalg, Stixbox.

-->

The verbosity level of the output (with the above default)  could be defined in 
user preferences, and checked in module startup script in order to output the 
required amount of information.

That's just a propostion to be discussed, of course.

S.

--

Stéphane Mottelet

Ingénieur de recherche

EA 4297 Transformations Intégrées de la Matière Renouvelable

Département Génie des Procédés Industriels

Sorbonne Universités - Université de Technologie de Compiègne

CS 60319, 60203 Compiègne cedex

Tel : +33(0)344234688

http://www.utc.fr/~mottelet
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[Scilab-users] Toolboxes startup

2021-04-26 Thread Stéphane Mottelet 

Hi all,

I just made available for macOS and Linux the toolboxes stixbox depends 
upon for macOS (distfun and linalg) and my remark is that when a lot of 
modules are loaded at startup then the output can become very long and 
sometimes messy, since we don't impose a normalized output:


*Scilab branch-6.1 (Apr 19 2021, 23:19:29)**
*

*Start Distfun**
**
**Start Helptbx**
**
**Start Specfun**
**
**Start Makematrix**
**
**Start Apifun**
**    Load macros**
**    Type "help apifun_overview" for a quick start.**
**
**Start Linalg**
**
**Start Stixbox*

I would rather expect something like:


*Scilab branch-6.1 (Apr 19 2021, 23:19:29)**
*

*Start modules: Distfun, Helptbx, Specfun, Makematrix, Apifun, Linalg, 
Stixbox.*


*--> *

The verbosity level of the output (with the above default)  could be 
defined in user preferences, and checked in module startup script in 
order to output the required amount of information.


That's just a propostion to be discussed, of course.

S.

--
Stéphane Mottelet
Ingénieur de recherche
EA 4297 Transformations Intégrées de la Matière Renouvelable
Département Génie des Procédés Industriels
Sorbonne Universités - Université de Technologie de Compiègne
CS 60319, 60203 Compiègne cedex
Tel : +33(0)344234688
http://www.utc.fr/~mottelet

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