Re: OT: Re: Issue-wise Crowdfunding platform for Maven
Hi Benson Then I think that all will be well indeed. Building that kind of relationship with ASF is very much aligned with our goals. Right now we're working on multiple fronts to improve our service and get a small scale operation going, so we can make the necessary tweaks to make the model actually work. When the time comes, I believe approaching ASF (and Codehaus, JBoss, etc) will come very naturally. And donating part of what we get just makes a lot of sense (even if we were thinking as investors). FreedomSponsors is made by developers who love open source, and our main goal is to serve the OSS community, while also being able to work on the open source projects that we love ourselves! But those are still dreams for the future. Now is the time for us to do the best we can to get there. So... Wish us luck! :-) Thanks for getting involved! Tony Lâmpada PS: Speaking of OSS, just as a side note: We are going to open source FreedomSponsor's website code as well (there's some code cleanup we have to do first, though) On 17 July 2012 15:41, Benson Margulies bimargul...@gmail.com wrote: It is extremely unlikely that the Foundation will be interested in any participation except to gratefully accept any unrestricted donations your organization might happen to make. If you want to state on your website that you are going to donate something to the ASF when the issue is an ASF project JIRA, and you conform the ASF trademark and branding guidelines, I predict (speaking without wearing any official ASF hat) that all will be well. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@maven.apache.org
Re: OT: Re: Issue-wise Crowdfunding platform for Maven
The biggest danger is that projects will get funded that do not fit into the strategic direction being followed by the ASF committers. When the funded artifacts are turned over to the ASF team (assuming that they are not doing the work) and they refuse to incorporate the changes into an official release, there will be a fork in the project which will be supported by the companies that paid for the enhancement. ASF will have to be very careful not to let egos interfere with good long-term management. On the whole, this could be a good thing for ASF, if it is handled properly. Ron On 18/07/2012 9:19 AM, Tony Lâmpada wrote: Hi Benson Then I think that all will be well indeed. Building that kind of relationship with ASF is very much aligned with our goals. Right now we're working on multiple fronts to improve our service and get a small scale operation going, so we can make the necessary tweaks to make the model actually work. When the time comes, I believe approaching ASF (and Codehaus, JBoss, etc) will come very naturally. And donating part of what we get just makes a lot of sense (even if we were thinking as investors). FreedomSponsors is made by developers who love open source, and our main goal is to serve the OSS community, while also being able to work on the open source projects that we love ourselves! But those are still dreams for the future. Now is the time for us to do the best we can to get there. So... Wish us luck! :-) Thanks for getting involved! Tony Lâmpada PS: Speaking of OSS, just as a side note: We are going to open source FreedomSponsor's website code as well (there's some code cleanup we have to do first, though) On 17 July 2012 15:41, Benson Margulies bimargul...@gmail.com wrote: It is extremely unlikely that the Foundation will be interested in any participation except to gratefully accept any unrestricted donations your organization might happen to make. If you want to state on your website that you are going to donate something to the ASF when the issue is an ASF project JIRA, and you conform the ASF trademark and branding guidelines, I predict (speaking without wearing any official ASF hat) that all will be well. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@maven.apache.org -- Ron Wheeler President Artifact Software Inc email: rwhee...@artifact-software.com skype: ronaldmwheeler phone: 866-970-2435, ext 102 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@maven.apache.org
Re: OT: Re: Issue-wise Crowdfunding platform for Maven
Hi Benson, thankings for bringing that subject up. We have been giving a lot of thought into questions like 1) What problem-scenarios might arise when a lot of people starts using FreedomSponsors? 2) And what would be the best way to address those problems? 3) How should FreedomSponsors evolve to best serve the open source community? And forking is one of our concerns as well. It surely fits (1) We believe that, generally speaking, forking is a bad thing. Please take a look at this Feedback issue (which is curently an improvement under develeopment) -- http://www.freedomsponsors.org/core/issue/7/add-two-checkboxes-to-the-offer-form-1-no-forking-2-require-release We want to encourage sponsors to fund the original projects - so the No forking checkbox will come checked by default in the Sponsor Issue screen. If the user unchecks it, a popup window will be displayed, explaining the bad effects of forking, and maybe that decision should be reconsidered. Hopefully what will happen is that most offers will have no_forking = true on their acceptance criteria. Developers then will have to actually get involved with the already well-established OSS communities to have access to bounties. If you have more thoughts regarding (1), (2) or (3), we're listening! :-) Thanks Tony Lâmpada On 18 July 2012 11:09, Ron Wheeler rwhee...@artifact-software.com wrote: The biggest danger is that projects will get funded that do not fit into the strategic direction being followed by the ASF committers. When the funded artifacts are turned over to the ASF team (assuming that they are not doing the work) and they refuse to incorporate the changes into an official release, there will be a fork in the project which will be supported by the companies that paid for the enhancement. ASF will have to be very careful not to let egos interfere with good long-term management. On the whole, this could be a good thing for ASF, if it is handled properly. Ron On 18/07/2012 9:19 AM, Tony Lâmpada wrote: Hi Benson Then I think that all will be well indeed. Building that kind of relationship with ASF is very much aligned with our goals. Right now we're working on multiple fronts to improve our service and get a small scale operation going, so we can make the necessary tweaks to make the model actually work. When the time comes, I believe approaching ASF (and Codehaus, JBoss, etc) will come very naturally. And donating part of what we get just makes a lot of sense (even if we were thinking as investors). FreedomSponsors is made by developers who love open source, and our main goal is to serve the OSS community, while also being able to work on the open source projects that we love ourselves! But those are still dreams for the future. Now is the time for us to do the best we can to get there. So... Wish us luck! :-) Thanks for getting involved! Tony Lâmpada PS: Speaking of OSS, just as a side note: We are going to open source FreedomSponsor's website code as well (there's some code cleanup we have to do first, though) On 17 July 2012 15:41, Benson Margulies bimargul...@gmail.com wrote: It is extremely unlikely that the Foundation will be interested in any participation except to gratefully accept any unrestricted donations your organization might happen to make. If you want to state on your website that you are going to donate something to the ASF when the issue is an ASF project JIRA, and you conform the ASF trademark and branding guidelines, I predict (speaking without wearing any official ASF hat) that all will be well. --**--** - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.**apache.orgusers-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@maven.apache.org -- Ron Wheeler President Artifact Software Inc email: rwhee...@artifact-software.com skype: ronaldmwheeler phone: 866-970-2435, ext 102 --**--**- To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.**apache.orgusers-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@maven.apache.org
Re: OT: Re: Issue-wise Crowdfunding platform for Maven
On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 12:27 PM, Tony Lâmpada t...@freedomsponsors.com wrote: Hi Benson, thankings for bringing that subject up. We have been giving a lot of thought into questions like Tony, I'm just one Foundation member. This isn't the list to be communicating with if you want to engage with the Foundation in a more formal way. Anything I write here is just my opinion. The community development project would be better. It seems to me that this model of yours has the least risk of community problems when the issues are relatively small and compact -- 'fix this bug.' Often, though not always, a bug is a bug, and a clean patch for a bugfix, complete with test case, will be gratefully committed. However, even this has room for entertainment. When I commit patches, sometimes I do some pretty serious rework on them. If I thought that the poster was going to get paid as a result of my efforts, I might be troubled. Even bug fixes can be the subject of design and architecture disagreement. If someone has money riding on getting a patch committed, I could see some additional friction. I don't see the fuss about forks. The person either putting up the money either wants the change integrated into the trunk or not. If they are happy with a fix made in their very own fork, why should anyone else care? The AL is fork-friendly. The other side of this coin is that forking, as a development strategy, is a great way to fail to get your work into the trunk, especially forking without community engagement. The Apache approach works best with small, incremental, changes. If the posted bounty is for some gigantic feature, this creates friction. The person doing the work only gets paid for the whole thing, but the process will extend over time and might bog down in the middle. The Foundation has a very strong set of values around volunteer status. Yes, people get paid for their work on ASF projects. However, they interact with with the projects as individuals, not as employees or contractors. Once again, for small stuff, this is fine. Contributing a patch works fine so long as the contributor is willing to work with the community. For a bigger, strategic, contribution, the expectation is that someone is going to earn the respect of the community on small stuff before proposing something major. People who show up and say, 'I'd like to add this giant thing' often are met with some resistance. 1) What problem-scenarios might arise when a lot of people starts using FreedomSponsors? 2) And what would be the best way to address those problems? 3) How should FreedomSponsors evolve to best serve the open source community? And forking is one of our concerns as well. It surely fits (1) We believe that, generally speaking, forking is a bad thing. Please take a look at this Feedback issue (which is curently an improvement under develeopment) -- http://www.freedomsponsors.org/core/issue/7/add-two-checkboxes-to-the-offer-form-1-no-forking-2-require-release We want to encourage sponsors to fund the original projects - so the No forking checkbox will come checked by default in the Sponsor Issue screen. If the user unchecks it, a popup window will be displayed, explaining the bad effects of forking, and maybe that decision should be reconsidered. Hopefully what will happen is that most offers will have no_forking = true on their acceptance criteria. Developers then will have to actually get involved with the already well-established OSS communities to have access to bounties. If you have more thoughts regarding (1), (2) or (3), we're listening! :-) Thanks Tony Lâmpada On 18 July 2012 11:09, Ron Wheeler rwhee...@artifact-software.com wrote: The biggest danger is that projects will get funded that do not fit into the strategic direction being followed by the ASF committers. When the funded artifacts are turned over to the ASF team (assuming that they are not doing the work) and they refuse to incorporate the changes into an official release, there will be a fork in the project which will be supported by the companies that paid for the enhancement. ASF will have to be very careful not to let egos interfere with good long-term management. On the whole, this could be a good thing for ASF, if it is handled properly. Ron On 18/07/2012 9:19 AM, Tony Lâmpada wrote: Hi Benson Then I think that all will be well indeed. Building that kind of relationship with ASF is very much aligned with our goals. Right now we're working on multiple fronts to improve our service and get a small scale operation going, so we can make the necessary tweaks to make the model actually work. When the time comes, I believe approaching ASF (and Codehaus, JBoss, etc) will come very naturally. And donating part of what we get just makes a lot of sense (even if we were thinking as investors). FreedomSponsors is made by developers who love open source, and our main goal is to serve the OSS
Re: OT: Re: Issue-wise Crowdfunding platform for Maven
It is extremely unlikely that the Foundation will be interested in any participation except to gratefully accept any unrestricted donations your organization might happen to make. If you want to state on your website that you are going to donate something to the ASF when the issue is an ASF project JIRA, and you conform the ASF trademark and branding guidelines, I predict (speaking without wearing any official ASF hat) that all will be well. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@maven.apache.org
RE: Issue-wise Crowdfunding platform for Maven
Would be good if each funding item would contain a link to the particular item in the project's tracker, so it is easier to learn about the issue's details. -Original Message- From: tony Tony [mailto:t...@freedomsponsors.com] Sent: Freitag, 13. Juli 2012 22:38 To: users@maven.apache.org; d...@maven.apache.org Subject: Issue-wise Crowdfunding platform for Maven Hi all, I have set up a website where people can place small money bounties for open issues on Maven JIRA http://jira.codehaus.org/browse/MNG (or Jenkins, or Hibernate, or whatever). So far it's only got two real offers - and one of them I placed myself (JENKINS-9216: Make OpenID work with Google Apps accountshttp://www.freedomsponsors.com/core/issue/11/make-openid-work- with-google-apps-accounts ), but I really think that as it gets more popular, such a tool can have a big positive impact on a lot of open source projects, especially popular ones like Maven. If you think so too, I welcome you to use it -- www.freedomsponsors.com :-) Cheers Tony Lâmpada - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@maven.apache.org
RE: Issue-wise Crowdfunding platform for Maven
Just found it... It's a bit small and hidden due to the black colour. -Original Message- From: Markus KARG [mailto:mar...@headcrashing.eu] Sent: Sonntag, 15. Juli 2012 09:17 To: 'Maven Users List'; d...@maven.apache.org Subject: RE: Issue-wise Crowdfunding platform for Maven Would be good if each funding item would contain a link to the particular item in the project's tracker, so it is easier to learn about the issue's details. -Original Message- From: tony Tony [mailto:t...@freedomsponsors.com] Sent: Freitag, 13. Juli 2012 22:38 To: users@maven.apache.org; d...@maven.apache.org Subject: Issue-wise Crowdfunding platform for Maven Hi all, I have set up a website where people can place small money bounties for open issues on Maven JIRA http://jira.codehaus.org/browse/MNG (or Jenkins, or Hibernate, or whatever). So far it's only got two real offers - and one of them I placed myself (JENKINS-9216: Make OpenID work with Google Apps accountshttp://www.freedomsponsors.com/core/issue/11/make-openid- work - with-google-apps-accounts ), but I really think that as it gets more popular, such a tool can have a big positive impact on a lot of open source projects, especially popular ones like Maven. If you think so too, I welcome you to use it -- www.freedomsponsors.com :-) Cheers Tony Lâmpada - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@maven.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@maven.apache.org
Re: Issue-wise Crowdfunding platform for Maven
Yup, we should make it more visible. Got it :-) Thanks On 15 July 2012 04:48, Markus KARG mar...@headcrashing.eu wrote: Just found it... It's a bit small and hidden due to the black colour. -Original Message- From: Markus KARG [mailto:mar...@headcrashing.eu] Sent: Sonntag, 15. Juli 2012 09:17 To: 'Maven Users List'; d...@maven.apache.org Subject: RE: Issue-wise Crowdfunding platform for Maven Would be good if each funding item would contain a link to the particular item in the project's tracker, so it is easier to learn about the issue's details. -Original Message- From: tony Tony [mailto:t...@freedomsponsors.com] Sent: Freitag, 13. Juli 2012 22:38 To: users@maven.apache.org; d...@maven.apache.org Subject: Issue-wise Crowdfunding platform for Maven Hi all, I have set up a website where people can place small money bounties for open issues on Maven JIRA http://jira.codehaus.org/browse/MNG (or Jenkins, or Hibernate, or whatever). So far it's only got two real offers - and one of them I placed myself (JENKINS-9216: Make OpenID work with Google Apps accountshttp://www.freedomsponsors.com/core/issue/11/make-openid- work - with-google-apps-accounts ), but I really think that as it gets more popular, such a tool can have a big positive impact on a lot of open source projects, especially popular ones like Maven. If you think so too, I welcome you to use it -- www.freedomsponsors.com :-) Cheers Tony Lâmpada - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@maven.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@maven.apache.org
OT: Re: Issue-wise Crowdfunding platform for Maven
Tony, I hate to rain on your parade because it's a very good idea, but isn't this something that the Apache Foundation should also be collecting at least as much as you are collecting (3%) for the service? To keep things honest and since 3% is barely more than Paypal charges to intermediate the funds in the first place, I'd alternately suggest a Jira plugin project that Apache could use to manage this through Apache Jira itself. Because Apache is a large non-profit, it may be able to negotiate better terms with services like Paypal such that more of the money stays in the family. While this may not sound as glorious as running this yourself, as eventual founder and PMC of the project, you'll still get all the recognition for changing the world of OSS for the better and will never have to worry about someone else getting a lead on your idea (nobody will be able to give more to developers than a non-profit with 0% holdback will). $0.02... On Jul 13, 2012, at 11:38 PM, tony Tony wrote: Hi all, I have set up a website where people can place small money bounties for open issues on Maven JIRA http://jira.codehaus.org/browse/MNG (or Jenkins, or Hibernate, or whatever). So far it's only got two real offers - and one of them I placed myself (JENKINS-9216: Make OpenID work with Google Apps accountshttp://www.freedomsponsors.com/core/issue/11/make-openid-work-with-google-apps-accounts ), but I really think that as it gets more popular, such a tool can have a big positive impact on a lot of open source projects, especially popular ones like Maven. If you think so too, I welcome you to use it -- www.freedomsponsors.com :-) Cheers Tony Lâmpada - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@maven.apache.org
Re: OT: Re: Issue-wise Crowdfunding platform for Maven
Hi Brian, Actually this is exactly where we are aimed to. Since we do want to see open source projects growing from our initiative it just makes sense to get open-source communities (such as Apache) involved. Right now we're focused on getting the platform up and running so we can put together enough material for engaging into conversation. Thanks for getting involved! Cheers, On 13 July 2012 18:16, Brian Topping topp...@codehaus.org wrote: Tony, I hate to rain on your parade because it's a very good idea, but isn't this something that the Apache Foundation should also be collecting at least as much as you are collecting (3%) for the service? To keep things honest and since 3% is barely more than Paypal charges to intermediate the funds in the first place, I'd alternately suggest a Jira plugin project that Apache could use to manage this through Apache Jira itself. Because Apache is a large non-profit, it may be able to negotiate better terms with services like Paypal such that more of the money stays in the family. While this may not sound as glorious as running this yourself, as eventual founder and PMC of the project, you'll still get all the recognition for changing the world of OSS for the better and will never have to worry about someone else getting a lead on your idea (nobody will be able to give more to developers than a non-profit with 0% holdback will). $0.02... On Jul 13, 2012, at 11:38 PM, tony Tony wrote: Hi all, I have set up a website where people can place small money bounties for open issues on Maven JIRA http://jira.codehaus.org/browse/MNG (or Jenkins, or Hibernate, or whatever). So far it's only got two real offers - and one of them I placed myself (JENKINS-9216: Make OpenID work with Google Apps accounts http://www.freedomsponsors.com/core/issue/11/make-openid-work-with-google-apps-accounts ), but I really think that as it gets more popular, such a tool can have a big positive impact on a lot of open source projects, especially popular ones like Maven. If you think so too, I welcome you to use it -- www.freedomsponsors.com:-) Cheers Tony Lâmpada - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@maven.apache.org
Re: OT: Re: Issue-wise Crowdfunding platform for Maven
Crowdfunding is the way of the future and will accelerate the growth of open source and proprietary software. Apache will have to come to grips with it since it is a way for companies to ensure that their priorities get to the top of the pile if they are only interested in providing money. It will erode the power of the PMC since private groups will be able to fund specific enhancements that have value to an audience rather than features that appeal to the developers. If the management of the Apache project leads the effort, it should be able to collect something but if someone else is doing the job, it is not clear where Apache fits in. This means that the PMC will have to get a structure in place to focus user financial contributions onto worthwhile projects and guarantee that specific functionality gets incorporated into the project. This will not replace the current collection of funds that are not dedicated or contingent on a specific result but will provide additional funding for specific features. Ron On 13/07/2012 5:16 PM, Brian Topping wrote: Tony, I hate to rain on your parade because it's a very good idea, but isn't this something that the Apache Foundation should also be collecting at least as much as you are collecting (3%) for the service? To keep things honest and since 3% is barely more than Paypal charges to intermediate the funds in the first place, I'd alternately suggest a Jira plugin project that Apache could use to manage this through Apache Jira itself. Because Apache is a large non-profit, it may be able to negotiate better terms with services like Paypal such that more of the money stays in the family. While this may not sound as glorious as running this yourself, as eventual founder and PMC of the project, you'll still get all the recognition for changing the world of OSS for the better and will never have to worry about someone else getting a lead on your idea (nobody will be able to give more to developers than a non-profit with 0% holdback will). $0.02... On Jul 13, 2012, at 11:38 PM, tony Tony wrote: Hi all, I have set up a website where people can place small money bounties for open issues on Maven JIRA http://jira.codehaus.org/browse/MNG (or Jenkins, or Hibernate, or whatever). So far it's only got two real offers - and one of them I placed myself (JENKINS-9216: Make OpenID work with Google Apps accountshttp://www.freedomsponsors.com/core/issue/11/make-openid-work-with-google-apps-accounts ), but I really think that as it gets more popular, such a tool can have a big positive impact on a lot of open source projects, especially popular ones like Maven. If you think so too, I welcome you to use it -- www.freedomsponsors.com :-) Cheers Tony Lâmpada - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@maven.apache.org -- Ron Wheeler President Artifact Software Inc email: rwhee...@artifact-software.com skype: ronaldmwheeler phone: 866-970-2435, ext 102 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@maven.apache.org
