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Re: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of platform independence

[Mark Eggers]

Walter / Gj,

One of the problems with running multiple versions of Java on Windows is
the inclusion of the following on the path (as I wrote up earlier):

C:\Program Files (x86)\Common Files\Oracle\Java\javapath

This MUST be removed from the PATH environment variable otherwise you
will see errors like those reported in the log.

I just ran the OpenJFX sample from NetBeans 11.1 using Maven and OpenJDK
11.0.4. It ran as expected with no errors.

. . . . just my two cents
/mde/

On 9/28/2019 12:31 PM, Geertjan Wielenga wrote:
> Yup, it seems to me that the Java environment isn't set up right -- some
> JDK 8 of some kind appears to be set up system wide.
> 
> Running 'java -version' would probably confirm that.
> 
> Gj
> 
> On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 9:29 PM Neil C Smith  wrote:
> 
>>
>>
>> On Sat, 28 Sep 2019, 19:28 Walter Oney,  wrote:
>>
>>> Sure it does. You just didn't see the stackoverflow thread where I got
>>> help installing JNA, which I need as part of my app. I wandered down the
>>> rathole of newer JDK versions trying to solve the problem. I'm back to
>>> being a happy bunny now that I've reverted to JDK 8.
>>>
>>
>> Well, I don't think you linked to the thread! ;-) What I meant was that
>> JNA isn't relevant to getting a working OpenJFX sample on your system. I
>> get that it's a library dependency of your app.
>>
>> JavaFX was never, strictly, part of the JDK. But was sometimes shipped
>> with it. From JavaFX 8 to OpenJFX 11 is a shift, you need to treat it as a
>> library dependency like you're doing with JNA. Unfortunately sticking with
>> JDK 8 and JavaFX 8 is unlikely a good long term strategy.
>>
>>
>>> As I said I would, I'm attaching the log from trying to run
>>> HelloFXWithMaven. I would like to return to my regularly scheduled nap. I
>>> realize that I'm probably cutting myself off from getting any help in the
>>> future, but I'm massively sleep deprived and have no choice today.
>>
>>
>> No, you're not. Just come back to it when suits you. We're usually a
>> friendly bunch of volunteers here. :-)
>>
>> The thing that strikes me in that log is the error on --module-path.
>> Sounds like something in the build is still picking up Java 8 somewhere?
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Neil
>>
> 




signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of platform independence

[Geertjan Wielenga]

Great advice, thanks.

Gj

On Sat, 28 Sep 2019 at 22:21, William Reynolds <
wnreyno...@stellarscience.com> wrote:

> TL;DR - edit your system path, and remove the jdk1.8 from it. Make sure
> your jdk11 is first.
>
> The problem is that the javafx maven plugin is trying to execute the java
> that is first on your PATH variable. You have both a JDK 11 and a JDK 8,
> the JDK 8 is first on your path. The maven-compiler-plugin is (correctly)
> looking at your java platform and using that to compile things, but the
> javafx maven plugin is incorrectly using your path (I don't see an option
> to configure the jdk you use for the javafx plugin, it seems to ignore
> JAVA_HOME). Anyways, fix your path and things will work.
>
>
> On 9/28/2019 1:53 PM, Geertjan Wielenga wrote:
>
> Possibly, but unless we can reproduce this or get a better understanding
> of the environment in question, we won't know.
>
> Gj
>
> On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 9:51 PM Neil C Smith 
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, 28 Sep 2019, 20:31 Geertjan Wielenga, 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Yup, it seems to me that the Java environment isn't set up right -- some
>>> JDK 8 of some kind appears to be set up system wide.
>>>
>>
>> Yes, but shouldn't cause an issue should it? The Maven support should set
>> up the environment for the build platform? Just wondering whether it might
>> be the sign of a bug in NetBeans or the Gluon projects.
>>
>> Neil
>>
>>>
> --
> William Reynolds, Ph.D.
> Stellar Science, llcwnreyno...@stellarscience.comwww.stellarscience.com
> 877-763-8268 x710 (v)
>
>

Re: The last straw

[Malcolm Fitzgerald]

Alan,

NetBeans v11 is an excellent IDE for PHP development. I use it everyday for 
that purpose. 


Malcolm



> On 29/09/2019, at 4:05 AM, Alan Cameron 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi All,
>  
> Walter Oney’s email is the last straw for me.
>  
> I had been a user of NetBeans 8.2 , using it for self-training in C, C++ and 
> PHP when this Apache incubation thing started and NetBeans 8.2 was dropped 
> from any sort of support. I have been watching the emails to this list with 
> increasing worries that it would never get around to PHP let alone C, C++.
>  
> The organisation has lost its way and is not helping itself by diverging from 
> some sort of common ground.
>  
> A radical rethink is long overdue and I wonder how commercial shops can stand 
> the ever mounting problems with this and that. I am surprised there are any 
> commercial users left using NetBeans.
>  
> I will be cancelling my subscription to this and other list tarred with the 
> Apache name.
>  
> Goodbye.
>  
> From Alan Cameron
> Please reply to alan.camer...@virginmedia.com 
> 

Re: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of platform independence

[Scott Palmer]

Fair enough, but the Java 7u6 release notes are quite stale. The Java 11 notes 
at 
https://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/11-relnote-issues-5012449.html#Removed
lists JavaFX among the many things that were removed. 

Java 11 was a very significant milestone with major changes. It was perhaps the 
turning point that the subject of this thread eludes to. I suspect most 
companies are still on Java 8 because of the mess that was created when Java 11 
dropped many features. (Without the path forward being ready. It still isn’t.)

It is confusing, which is why it is necessary to keep up with the changes in 
each release. 

Anyway, let’s build that path forward and get NB smoothly operating. With the 
right tool support we can get rid of some of these pain points. 

Scott

> On Sep 28, 2019, at 1:50 PM, Walter Oney  wrote:
> 
> From: Scott Palmer  
> Oracle does not state that JavaFX is included in Java 11. 
> 
> From https://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javafx/overview/index.html: "As 
> of JDK 7u6 JavaFX is included with the standard JDK and JRE bundles.  Please 
> download the JDK or JRE to use JavaFX." The link is to a download page for 
> several versions of the JDK. I think I can be excused confusion for not 
> realizing that version 11 is not "as of 7u6".
> 
> --
> Walter C. Oney, Jr., Esq.
> 267 Pearl Hill Rd., Fitchburg, MA 01420
> Tel.: 978-343-3390
> http://www.oneylaw.com

Re: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of platform independence

[Geertjan Wielenga]

Possibly, but unless we can reproduce this or get a better understanding of
the environment in question, we won't know.

Gj

On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 9:51 PM Neil C Smith  wrote:

>
>
> On Sat, 28 Sep 2019, 20:31 Geertjan Wielenga,  wrote:
>
>> Yup, it seems to me that the Java environment isn't set up right -- some
>> JDK 8 of some kind appears to be set up system wide.
>>
>
> Yes, but shouldn't cause an issue should it? The Maven support should set
> up the environment for the build platform? Just wondering whether it might
> be the sign of a bug in NetBeans or the Gluon projects.
>
> Neil
>
>>

Re: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of platform independence

[Neil C Smith]

On Sat, 28 Sep 2019, 20:31 Geertjan Wielenga,  wrote:

> Yup, it seems to me that the Java environment isn't set up right -- some
> JDK 8 of some kind appears to be set up system wide.
>

Yes, but shouldn't cause an issue should it? The Maven support should set
up the environment for the build platform? Just wondering whether it might
be the sign of a bug in NetBeans or the Gluon projects.

Neil

>

Re: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of platform independence

[Geertjan Wielenga]

Yup, it seems to me that the Java environment isn't set up right -- some
JDK 8 of some kind appears to be set up system wide.

Running 'java -version' would probably confirm that.

Gj

On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 9:29 PM Neil C Smith  wrote:

>
>
> On Sat, 28 Sep 2019, 19:28 Walter Oney,  wrote:
>
>> Sure it does. You just didn't see the stackoverflow thread where I got
>> help installing JNA, which I need as part of my app. I wandered down the
>> rathole of newer JDK versions trying to solve the problem. I'm back to
>> being a happy bunny now that I've reverted to JDK 8.
>>
>
> Well, I don't think you linked to the thread! ;-) What I meant was that
> JNA isn't relevant to getting a working OpenJFX sample on your system. I
> get that it's a library dependency of your app.
>
> JavaFX was never, strictly, part of the JDK. But was sometimes shipped
> with it. From JavaFX 8 to OpenJFX 11 is a shift, you need to treat it as a
> library dependency like you're doing with JNA. Unfortunately sticking with
> JDK 8 and JavaFX 8 is unlikely a good long term strategy.
>
>
>> As I said I would, I'm attaching the log from trying to run
>> HelloFXWithMaven. I would like to return to my regularly scheduled nap. I
>> realize that I'm probably cutting myself off from getting any help in the
>> future, but I'm massively sleep deprived and have no choice today.
>
>
> No, you're not. Just come back to it when suits you. We're usually a
> friendly bunch of volunteers here. :-)
>
> The thing that strikes me in that log is the error on --module-path.
> Sounds like something in the build is still picking up Java 8 somewhere?
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Neil
>

Re: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of platform independence

[Neil C Smith]

On Sat, 28 Sep 2019, 19:28 Walter Oney,  wrote:

> Sure it does. You just didn't see the stackoverflow thread where I got
> help installing JNA, which I need as part of my app. I wandered down the
> rathole of newer JDK versions trying to solve the problem. I'm back to
> being a happy bunny now that I've reverted to JDK 8.
>

Well, I don't think you linked to the thread! ;-) What I meant was that JNA
isn't relevant to getting a working OpenJFX sample on your system. I get
that it's a library dependency of your app.

JavaFX was never, strictly, part of the JDK. But was sometimes shipped with
it. From JavaFX 8 to OpenJFX 11 is a shift, you need to treat it as a
library dependency like you're doing with JNA. Unfortunately sticking with
JDK 8 and JavaFX 8 is unlikely a good long term strategy.


> As I said I would, I'm attaching the log from trying to run
> HelloFXWithMaven. I would like to return to my regularly scheduled nap. I
> realize that I'm probably cutting myself off from getting any help in the
> future, but I'm massively sleep deprived and have no choice today.


No, you're not. Just come back to it when suits you. We're usually a
friendly bunch of volunteers here. :-)

The thing that strikes me in that log is the error on --module-path. Sounds
like something in the build is still picking up Java 8 somewhere?

Best wishes,

Neil

RE: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of platform independence

[Walter Oney]

Look, I'm just tired. This isn't the main focus of my life, after all. If I can 
recreate the build that failed so spectacularly, I will post the log. But I'm 
in the middle of reverting to JDK right now. Once again, thanks for your 
efforts.

-Original Message-
From: Geertjan Wielenga  
Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2019 2:10 PM
To: Walter Oney 
Cc: Neil C Smith ; NetBeans Mailing List 

Subject: Re: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of platform independence

The OpenJFX samples work out of the box.

However, it appears your Java environment is misconfigured in some way -- 
though we're not going to know unless you provide the error messages you're 
seeing with the OpenJFX samples. Is it during the build, or during deployment? 
What are the error messages, please?

Gj

On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 8:08 PM Walter Oney mailto:walter.o...@oneylaw.com> > wrote:


From: Geertjan Wielenga mailto:geert...@apache.org> > 

> You're going to have to do better than this in terms of error 
reporting.

I don't want to be on the leading edge here -- I just want to get back 
to developing my app. I got sidetracked by not knowing I needed JNA.JAR in 
addition to JNA-PLATFORM.JAR. But thanks all the same -- today's experience 
reinforces my notion that the toolset, considered as a whole, isn't yet ready 
for prime time. In the fullness of time, I may try to help fix the installers 
so they're more robust in terms of version management.

--
Walter C. Oney, Jr., Esq.
267 Pearl Hill Rd., Fitchburg, MA 01420
Tel.: 978-343-3390
http://www.oneylaw.com








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RE: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of platform independence

[Walter Oney]

Sure it does. You just didn't see the stackoverflow thread where I got help 
installing JNA, which I need as part of my app. I wandered down the rathole of 
newer JDK versions trying to solve the problem. I'm back to being a happy bunny 
now that I've reverted to JDK 8.

As I said I would, I'm attaching the log from trying to run HelloFXWithMaven. I 
would like to return to my regularly scheduled nap. I realize that I'm probably 
cutting myself off from getting any help in the future, but I'm massively sleep 
deprived and have no choice today.

-Original Message-
From: Geertjan Wielenga  
Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2019 2:21 PM
To: Walter Oney 
Cc: Neil C Smith ; NetBeans Mailing List 

Subject: Re: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of platform independence



On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 8:14 PM Walter Oney mailto:walter.o...@oneylaw.com> > wrote:


Look, I'm just tired. This isn't the main focus of my life, after all. 
If I can recreate the build that failed so spectacularly,


But that's a question of creating a new sample from the OpenJFX category and 
then building it and running it -- how is that hard to achieve, we just need to 
see the error message so we can help you further and the above takes about 3 
minutes?

Indeed, JNA has nothing at all to do with any of this.

Gj


 

I will post the log. But I'm in the middle of reverting to JDK right 
now. Once again, thanks for your efforts.

-Original Message-
From: Geertjan Wielenga mailto:geert...@apache.org> > 
Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2019 2:10 PM
To: Walter Oney mailto:walter.o...@oneylaw.com> >
Cc: Neil C Smith mailto:neilcsm...@apache.org> 
>; NetBeans Mailing List mailto:users@netbeans.apache.org> >
Subject: Re: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of platform 
independence

The OpenJFX samples work out of the box.

However, it appears your Java environment is misconfigured in some way 
-- though we're not going to know unless you provide the error messages you're 
seeing with the OpenJFX samples. Is it during the build, or during deployment? 
What are the error messages, please?

Gj

On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 8:08 PM Walter Oney mailto:walter.o...@oneylaw.com>   > > wrote:


From: Geertjan Wielenga mailto:geert...@apache.org>   > > 

> You're going to have to do better than this in terms of error 
reporting.

I don't want to be on the leading edge here -- I just want to 
get back to developing my app. I got sidetracked by not knowing I needed 
JNA.JAR in addition to JNA-PLATFORM.JAR. But thanks all the same -- today's 
experience reinforces my notion that the toolset, considered as a whole, isn't 
yet ready for prime time. In the fullness of time, I may try to help fix the 
installers so they're more robust in terms of version management.

--
Walter C. Oney, Jr., Esq.
267 Pearl Hill Rd., Fitchburg, MA 01420
Tel.: 978-343-3390
http://www.oneylaw.com









cd C:\railroad\HelloFXWithMaven1; "JAVA_HOME=C:\\Program 
Files\\Java\\jdk-11.0.4" cmd /c "\"\"C:\\Program 
Files\\NetBeans-11.1\\netbeans\\java\\maven\\bin\\mvn.cmd\" 
-Dmaven.ext.class.path=\"C:\\Program 
Files\\NetBeans-11.1\\netbeans\\java\\maven-nblib\\netbeans-eventspy.jar\" 
-Dfile.encoding=UTF-8 clean javafx:run\""
Scanning for projects...


Building HelloFXWithMaven 1.0-SNAPSHOT


--- maven-clean-plugin:2.5:clean (default-clean) @ HelloFXWithMaven ---
Deleting C:\railroad\HelloFXWithMaven1\target

--- javafx-maven-plugin:0.0.2:run (default-cli) @ HelloFXWithMaven ---
Using 'UTF-8' encoding to copy filtered resources.
Copying 1 resource
Changes detected - recompiling the module!
Compiling 3 source files to C:\railroad\HelloFXWithMaven1\target\classes
Error: Could not create the Java Virtual Machine.
Error: A fatal exception has occurred. Program will exit.
Unrecognized option: --module-path
Command execution failed.
org.apache.commons.exec.ExecuteException: Process exited with an error: 1 (Exit 
value: 1)
at 
org.apache.commons.exec.DefaultExecutor.executeInternal(DefaultExecutor.java:404)
at 
org.apache.commons.exec.DefaultExecutor.execute(DefaultExecutor.java:166)
at 
org.openjfx.JavaFXBaseMojo.executeCommandLine(JavaFXBaseMojo.java:447)
at 
org.openjfx.JavaFXBaseMojo.executeCommandLine(JavaFXBaseMojo.java:409)
at 

Re: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of platform independence

[Geertjan Wielenga]

On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 8:14 PM Walter Oney  wrote:

> Look, I'm just tired. This isn't the main focus of my life, after all. If
> I can recreate the build that failed so spectacularly,


But that's a question of creating a new sample from the OpenJFX category
and then building it and running it -- how is that hard to achieve, we just
need to see the error message so we can help you further and the above
takes about 3 minutes?

Indeed, JNA has nothing at all to do with any of this.

Gj




> I will post the log. But I'm in the middle of reverting to JDK right now.
> Once again, thanks for your efforts.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Geertjan Wielenga 
> Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2019 2:10 PM
> To: Walter Oney 
> Cc: Neil C Smith ; NetBeans Mailing List <
> users@netbeans.apache.org>
> Subject: Re: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of platform
> independence
>
> The OpenJFX samples work out of the box.
>
> However, it appears your Java environment is misconfigured in some way --
> though we're not going to know unless you provide the error messages you're
> seeing with the OpenJFX samples. Is it during the build, or during
> deployment? What are the error messages, please?
>
> Gj
>
> On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 8:08 PM Walter Oney   > wrote:
>
>
> From: Geertjan Wielenga  geert...@apache.org> >
>
> > You're going to have to do better than this in terms of error
> reporting.
>
> I don't want to be on the leading edge here -- I just want to get
> back to developing my app. I got sidetracked by not knowing I needed
> JNA.JAR in addition to JNA-PLATFORM.JAR. But thanks all the same -- today's
> experience reinforces my notion that the toolset, considered as a whole,
> isn't yet ready for prime time. In the fullness of time, I may try to help
> fix the installers so they're more robust in terms of version management.
>
> --
> Walter C. Oney, Jr., Esq.
> 267 Pearl Hill Rd., Fitchburg, MA 01420
> Tel.: 978-343-3390
> http://www.oneylaw.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

RE: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of platform independence

[Walter Oney]

From: Scott Palmer  
Oracle does not state that JavaFX is included in Java 11. 

>From https://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javafx/overview/index.html: "As 
>of JDK 7u6 JavaFX is included with the standard JDK and JRE bundles.  Please 
>download the JDK or JRE to use JavaFX." The link is to a download page for 
>several versions of the JDK. I think I can be excused confusion for not 
>realizing that version 11 is not "as of 7u6".

--
Walter C. Oney, Jr., Esq.
267 Pearl Hill Rd., Fitchburg, MA 01420
Tel.: 978-343-3390
http://www.oneylaw.com




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Re: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of platform independence

[Neil C Smith]

On Sat, 28 Sep 2019, 19:08 Walter Oney,  wrote:

>
> I don't want to be on the leading edge here -- I just want to get back to
> developing my app. I got sidetracked by not knowing I needed JNA.JAR in
> addition to JNA-PLATFORM.JAR.
>

What has JNA got to do with this conversation exactly?! It feels like
you're trying to solve multiple problems at the same time.

Neil

Re: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of platform independence

[Geertjan Wielenga]

The OpenJFX samples work out of the box.

However, it appears your Java environment is misconfigured in some way --
though we're not going to know unless you provide the error messages you're
seeing with the OpenJFX samples. Is it during the build, or during
deployment? What are the error messages, please?

Gj

On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 8:08 PM Walter Oney  wrote:

> From: Geertjan Wielenga 
>
> > You're going to have to do better than this in terms of error reporting.
>
> I don't want to be on the leading edge here -- I just want to get back to
> developing my app. I got sidetracked by not knowing I needed JNA.JAR in
> addition to JNA-PLATFORM.JAR. But thanks all the same -- today's experience
> reinforces my notion that the toolset, considered as a whole, isn't yet
> ready for prime time. In the fullness of time, I may try to help fix the
> installers so they're more robust in terms of version management.
>
> --
> Walter C. Oney, Jr., Esq.
> 267 Pearl Hill Rd., Fitchburg, MA 01420
> Tel.: 978-343-3390
> http://www.oneylaw.com
>
>
>
>
>

RE: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of platform independence

[Walter Oney]

From: Geertjan Wielenga  

> You're going to have to do better than this in terms of error reporting.

I don't want to be on the leading edge here -- I just want to get back to 
developing my app. I got sidetracked by not knowing I needed JNA.JAR in 
addition to JNA-PLATFORM.JAR. But thanks all the same -- today's experience 
reinforces my notion that the toolset, considered as a whole, isn't yet ready 
for prime time. In the fullness of time, I may try to help fix the installers 
so they're more robust in terms of version management.

--
Walter C. Oney, Jr., Esq.
267 Pearl Hill Rd., Fitchburg, MA 01420
Tel.: 978-343-3390
http://www.oneylaw.com





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Re: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of platform independence

[Geertjan Wielenga]

On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 7:59 PM Walter Oney  wrote:

> Still not working -- many error messages.



You're going to have to do better than this in terms of error reporting.

If you like, I can take a look on Skype, I'm on there now with my name:
geertjanwielenga

Gj



> How about I just revert to version 8-something of the JDK?
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Geertjan Wielenga 
> Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2019 1:52 PM
> To: Walter Oney 
> Cc: Neil C Smith ; NetBeans Mailing List <
> users@netbeans.apache.org>
> Subject: Re: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of platform
> independence
>
> Whatever it is you're trying to do, please do not try and download any
> JavaFX SDK or whatever.
>
> Use the samples in the OpenJFX category, which means you're using the
> Gluon samples, which download the JARs that you need via Maven.
>
> https://netbeans.apache.org/download/nb111/index.html
>
>
> Gj
>
>
> On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 7:50 PM Geertjan Wielenga   > wrote:
>
>
> https://netbeans.apache.org/download/nb111/index.html
>
>
> Gj
>
> On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 7:50 PM Geertjan Wielenga <
> geert...@apache.org  > wrote:
>
>
> The samples in the OpenJFX category use Maven, they are
> the Gluon samples, yes, they will build with JDK 11 or later.
>
> The category, as stated by Neil, is named OpenJFX, you can
> see a picture of them in the 11.1 features page:
>
>
> On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 7:46 PM Walter Oney <
> walter.o...@oneylaw.com  > wrote:
>
>
> I just noticed that you said to pick a "JavaFX"
> sample. Duh. I got a message to the effect that my JDK doesn't support
> JavaFX, so the wizard doesn't even build an app.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Geertjan Wielenga   >
> Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2019 1:41 PM
> To: Walter Oney  walter.o...@oneylaw.com> >
> Cc: Neil C Smith  neilcsm...@apache.org> >; NetBeans Mailing List   >
> Subject: Re: A Bad Thing has happened to the
> promise of platform independence
>
> What is the name of the sample that you picked?
>
> Gj
>
> On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 7:40 PM Walter Oney <
> walter.o...@oneylaw.com    walter.o...@oneylaw.com  > > wrote:
>
>
> A follow-on: I *did* previously change the
> value of JAVA_HOME. I happened to check in a stale cmd window.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Walter Oney     > >
> Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2019 1:39 PM
> To: 'Geertjan Wielenga' <
> geert...@apache.org    geert...@apache.org  > >
> Cc: 'Neil C Smith'     > >; 'NetBeans Mailing List' <
> users@netbeans.apache.org    users@netbeans.apache.org  > >
> Subject: RE: A Bad Thing has happened to
> the promise of platform independence
>
> Well, Maven downloaded a whole bunch of
> things (probably good). The run step failed with these three messages:
>
> Error: opening registry key
> 'Software\JavaSoft\Java Runtime Environment' [sure enough, it's not there]
> Error: could not find java.dll [it's in
> \Program Files\Java\jdk-11.0.4\bin, whereas JAVA_HOME is still pointing to
> jdk-13 even though I thought I previously changed it by hand.]
> Error: Could not find the Java SE Runtime
> Environment
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Geertjan Wielenga <
> geert...@apache.org    geert...@apache.org  > >
> Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2019 1:25 PM
> To: Walter Oney     > >
> Cc: Neil C Smith     > >; NetBeans Mailing List <
> users@netbeans.apache.org    users@netbeans.apache.org 

RE: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of platform independence

[Walter Oney]

Still not working -- many error messages. How about I just revert to version 
8-something of the JDK?

-Original Message-
From: Geertjan Wielenga  
Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2019 1:52 PM
To: Walter Oney 
Cc: Neil C Smith ; NetBeans Mailing List 

Subject: Re: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of platform independence

Whatever it is you're trying to do, please do not try and download any JavaFX 
SDK or whatever.

Use the samples in the OpenJFX category, which means you're using the Gluon 
samples, which download the JARs that you need via Maven.

https://netbeans.apache.org/download/nb111/index.html


Gj


On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 7:50 PM Geertjan Wielenga mailto:geert...@apache.org> > wrote:


https://netbeans.apache.org/download/nb111/index.html


Gj

On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 7:50 PM Geertjan Wielenga mailto:geert...@apache.org> > wrote:


The samples in the OpenJFX category use Maven, they are the 
Gluon samples, yes, they will build with JDK 11 or later.

The category, as stated by Neil, is named OpenJFX, you can see 
a picture of them in the 11.1 features page:


On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 7:46 PM Walter Oney 
mailto:walter.o...@oneylaw.com> > wrote:


I just noticed that you said to pick a "JavaFX" sample. 
Duh. I got a message to the effect that my JDK doesn't support JavaFX, so the 
wizard doesn't even build an app.

-Original Message-
From: Geertjan Wielenga mailto:geert...@apache.org> > 
Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2019 1:41 PM
To: Walter Oney mailto:walter.o...@oneylaw.com> >
Cc: Neil C Smith mailto:neilcsm...@apache.org> >; NetBeans Mailing List 
mailto:users@netbeans.apache.org> >
Subject: Re: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of 
platform independence

What is the name of the sample that you picked?

Gj

On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 7:40 PM Walter Oney 
mailto:walter.o...@oneylaw.com>  
 > > wrote:


A follow-on: I *did* previously change the 
value of JAVA_HOME. I happened to check in a stale cmd window.

-Original Message-
From: Walter Oney mailto:walter.o...@oneylaw.com>   > > 
Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2019 1:39 PM
To: 'Geertjan Wielenga' mailto:geert...@apache.org>   > >
Cc: 'Neil C Smith' mailto:neilcsm...@apache.org>   > >; 'NetBeans Mailing List' 
mailto:users@netbeans.apache.org>  
 > >
Subject: RE: A Bad Thing has happened to the 
promise of platform independence

Well, Maven downloaded a whole bunch of things 
(probably good). The run step failed with these three messages:

Error: opening registry key 
'Software\JavaSoft\Java Runtime Environment' [sure enough, it's not there]
Error: could not find java.dll [it's in 
\Program Files\Java\jdk-11.0.4\bin, whereas JAVA_HOME is still pointing to 
jdk-13 even though I thought I previously changed it by hand.]
Error: Could not find the Java SE Runtime 
Environment

-Original Message-
From: Geertjan Wielenga mailto:geert...@apache.org>   > > 
Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2019 1:25 PM
To: Walter Oney mailto:walter.o...@oneylaw.com>   > >
Cc: Neil C Smith mailto:neilcsm...@apache.org>   > >; NetBeans Mailing List 
mailto:users@netbeans.apache.org>  
 > >
Subject: Re: A Bad Thing has happened to the 
promise of platform independence

Now don't do anything other than this -- open 

RE: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of platform independence

[Walter Oney]

I just noticed that you said to pick a "JavaFX" sample. Duh. I got a message to 
the effect that my JDK doesn't support JavaFX, so the wizard doesn't even build 
an app.

-Original Message-
From: Geertjan Wielenga  
Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2019 1:41 PM
To: Walter Oney 
Cc: Neil C Smith ; NetBeans Mailing List 

Subject: Re: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of platform independence

What is the name of the sample that you picked?

Gj

On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 7:40 PM Walter Oney mailto:walter.o...@oneylaw.com> > wrote:


A follow-on: I *did* previously change the value of JAVA_HOME. I 
happened to check in a stale cmd window.

-Original Message-
From: Walter Oney mailto:walter.o...@oneylaw.com> > 
Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2019 1:39 PM
To: 'Geertjan Wielenga' mailto:geert...@apache.org> >
Cc: 'Neil C Smith' mailto:neilcsm...@apache.org> >; 'NetBeans Mailing List' 
mailto:users@netbeans.apache.org> >
Subject: RE: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of platform 
independence

Well, Maven downloaded a whole bunch of things (probably good). The run 
step failed with these three messages:

Error: opening registry key 'Software\JavaSoft\Java Runtime 
Environment' [sure enough, it's not there]
Error: could not find java.dll [it's in \Program 
Files\Java\jdk-11.0.4\bin, whereas JAVA_HOME is still pointing to jdk-13 even 
though I thought I previously changed it by hand.]
Error: Could not find the Java SE Runtime Environment

-Original Message-
From: Geertjan Wielenga mailto:geert...@apache.org> > 
Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2019 1:25 PM
To: Walter Oney mailto:walter.o...@oneylaw.com> >
Cc: Neil C Smith mailto:neilcsm...@apache.org> 
>; NetBeans Mailing List mailto:users@netbeans.apache.org> >
Subject: Re: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of platform 
independence

Now don't do anything other than this -- open the New Project dialog, 
go to the Samples category, in the JavaFX category pick one of the two samples 
you see there. Complete the wizard. Run the sample.

Gj

On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 7:23 PM Walter Oney mailto:walter.o...@oneylaw.com>   > > wrote:


Here you go.

-Original Message-
From: Geertjan Wielenga mailto:geert...@apache.org>   > > 
Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2019 1:17 PM
To: Walter Oney mailto:walter.o...@oneylaw.com>   > >
Cc: Neil C Smith mailto:neilcsm...@apache.org>   > >; NetBeans Mailing List 
mailto:users@netbeans.apache.org>  
 > >
Subject: Re: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of 
platform independence

Cab you go to Help | About in Apache NetBeans 11.1 and copy 
what you see there and paste it here and send it so we can really see what the 
environment is that you're making use of?

Gj

On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 7:12 PM Walter Oney 
mailto:walter.o...@oneylaw.com>  
 >  
  
 > > > wrote:


I'm doing this particular project on Windows 10. By 
"installing" I mean running the .exe (if there is one) from a web site or 
downloading a JAR file and putting it some place where I can find it.

I keep having private conversations with Geertjan 
without meaning to -- from long habit, I hardly ever hit reply-all. Anyhow, he 
wondered what version of the JDK I was using. Initially, I think I had 11.0 or 
11.1. Then I decided to get the latest and greatest, so I uninstalled that and 
installed 13 without realizing it didn't come with JavaFX (which I need for the 
graphics). I'm back to 11.1 now, which I downloaded from Oracle. It appears not 
to have JavaFX built-in like Oracle says it should. 

I'm grateful that you guys are working on a Saturday 
and trying to help a newbie out.

-Original Message-
From: Neil C Smith mailto:neilcsm...@apache.org>   >     > > > 
  

Re: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of platform independence

[Geertjan Wielenga]

Whatever it is you're trying to do, please do not try and download any
JavaFX SDK or whatever.

Use the samples in the OpenJFX category, which means you're using the Gluon
samples, which download the JARs that you need via Maven.

https://netbeans.apache.org/download/nb111/index.html

Gj


On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 7:50 PM Geertjan Wielenga 
wrote:

> https://netbeans.apache.org/download/nb111/index.html
>
> Gj
>
> On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 7:50 PM Geertjan Wielenga 
> wrote:
>
>> The samples in the OpenJFX category use Maven, they are the Gluon
>> samples, yes, they will build with JDK 11 or later.
>>
>> The category, as stated by Neil, is named OpenJFX, you can see a picture
>> of them in the 11.1 features page:
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 7:46 PM Walter Oney 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I just noticed that you said to pick a "JavaFX" sample. Duh. I got a
>>> message to the effect that my JDK doesn't support JavaFX, so the wizard
>>> doesn't even build an app.
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Geertjan Wielenga 
>>> Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2019 1:41 PM
>>> To: Walter Oney 
>>> Cc: Neil C Smith ; NetBeans Mailing List <
>>> users@netbeans.apache.org>
>>> Subject: Re: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of platform
>>> independence
>>>
>>> What is the name of the sample that you picked?
>>>
>>> Gj
>>>
>>> On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 7:40 PM Walter Oney >>  > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> A follow-on: I *did* previously change the value of JAVA_HOME. I
>>> happened to check in a stale cmd window.
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Walter Oney >> walter.o...@oneylaw.com> >
>>> Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2019 1:39 PM
>>> To: 'Geertjan Wielenga' >> geert...@apache.org> >
>>> Cc: 'Neil C Smith' >> neilcsm...@apache.org> >; 'NetBeans Mailing List' <
>>> users@netbeans.apache.org  >
>>> Subject: RE: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of platform
>>> independence
>>>
>>> Well, Maven downloaded a whole bunch of things (probably good).
>>> The run step failed with these three messages:
>>>
>>> Error: opening registry key 'Software\JavaSoft\Java Runtime
>>> Environment' [sure enough, it's not there]
>>> Error: could not find java.dll [it's in \Program
>>> Files\Java\jdk-11.0.4\bin, whereas JAVA_HOME is still pointing to jdk-13
>>> even though I thought I previously changed it by hand.]
>>> Error: Could not find the Java SE Runtime Environment
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Geertjan Wielenga >> geert...@apache.org> >
>>> Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2019 1:25 PM
>>> To: Walter Oney >> walter.o...@oneylaw.com> >
>>> Cc: Neil C Smith >> neilcsm...@apache.org> >; NetBeans Mailing List <
>>> users@netbeans.apache.org  >
>>> Subject: Re: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of platform
>>> independence
>>>
>>> Now don't do anything other than this -- open the New Project
>>> dialog, go to the Samples category, in the JavaFX category pick one of the
>>> two samples you see there. Complete the wizard. Run the sample.
>>>
>>> Gj
>>>
>>> On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 7:23 PM Walter Oney <
>>> walter.o...@oneylaw.com   >> walter.o...@oneylaw.com  > > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Here you go.
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Geertjan Wielenga >> geert...@apache.org>  > geert...@apache.org> > >
>>> Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2019 1:17 PM
>>> To: Walter Oney >> walter.o...@oneylaw.com>  > walter.o...@oneylaw.com> > >
>>> Cc: Neil C Smith >> neilcsm...@apache.org>  > neilcsm...@apache.org> > >; NetBeans Mailing List <
>>> users@netbeans.apache.org   >> users@netbeans.apache.org  > >
>>> Subject: Re: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of
>>> platform independence
>>>
>>> Cab you go to Help | About in Apache NetBeans 11.1 and
>>> copy what you see there and paste it here and send it so we can really see
>>> what the environment is that you're making use of?
>>>
>>> Gj
>>>
>>> On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 7:12 PM Walter Oney <
>>> walter.o...@oneylaw.com   >> walter.o...@oneylaw.com  >  >> walter.o...@oneylaw.com   >> walter.o...@oneylaw.com  > > > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm doing this particular project on Windows 10.
>>> By "installing" I mean running the .exe (if there is one) from a web site
>>> or downloading a JAR file 

Re: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of platform independence

[Geertjan Wielenga]

https://netbeans.apache.org/download/nb111/index.html

Gj

On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 7:50 PM Geertjan Wielenga 
wrote:

> The samples in the OpenJFX category use Maven, they are the Gluon samples,
> yes, they will build with JDK 11 or later.
>
> The category, as stated by Neil, is named OpenJFX, you can see a picture
> of them in the 11.1 features page:
>
>
> On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 7:46 PM Walter Oney 
> wrote:
>
>> I just noticed that you said to pick a "JavaFX" sample. Duh. I got a
>> message to the effect that my JDK doesn't support JavaFX, so the wizard
>> doesn't even build an app.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Geertjan Wielenga 
>> Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2019 1:41 PM
>> To: Walter Oney 
>> Cc: Neil C Smith ; NetBeans Mailing List <
>> users@netbeans.apache.org>
>> Subject: Re: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of platform
>> independence
>>
>> What is the name of the sample that you picked?
>>
>> Gj
>>
>> On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 7:40 PM Walter Oney >  > wrote:
>>
>>
>> A follow-on: I *did* previously change the value of JAVA_HOME. I
>> happened to check in a stale cmd window.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Walter Oney > walter.o...@oneylaw.com> >
>> Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2019 1:39 PM
>> To: 'Geertjan Wielenga' > geert...@apache.org> >
>> Cc: 'Neil C Smith' > neilcsm...@apache.org> >; 'NetBeans Mailing List' <
>> users@netbeans.apache.org  >
>> Subject: RE: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of platform
>> independence
>>
>> Well, Maven downloaded a whole bunch of things (probably good).
>> The run step failed with these three messages:
>>
>> Error: opening registry key 'Software\JavaSoft\Java Runtime
>> Environment' [sure enough, it's not there]
>> Error: could not find java.dll [it's in \Program
>> Files\Java\jdk-11.0.4\bin, whereas JAVA_HOME is still pointing to jdk-13
>> even though I thought I previously changed it by hand.]
>> Error: Could not find the Java SE Runtime Environment
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Geertjan Wielenga > geert...@apache.org> >
>> Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2019 1:25 PM
>> To: Walter Oney > walter.o...@oneylaw.com> >
>> Cc: Neil C Smith > neilcsm...@apache.org> >; NetBeans Mailing List <
>> users@netbeans.apache.org  >
>> Subject: Re: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of platform
>> independence
>>
>> Now don't do anything other than this -- open the New Project
>> dialog, go to the Samples category, in the JavaFX category pick one of the
>> two samples you see there. Complete the wizard. Run the sample.
>>
>> Gj
>>
>> On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 7:23 PM Walter Oney <
>> walter.o...@oneylaw.com   > walter.o...@oneylaw.com  > > wrote:
>>
>>
>> Here you go.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Geertjan Wielenga > geert...@apache.org>   geert...@apache.org> > >
>> Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2019 1:17 PM
>> To: Walter Oney > walter.o...@oneylaw.com>   walter.o...@oneylaw.com> > >
>> Cc: Neil C Smith > neilcsm...@apache.org>   neilcsm...@apache.org> > >; NetBeans Mailing List <
>> users@netbeans.apache.org   > users@netbeans.apache.org  > >
>> Subject: Re: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of
>> platform independence
>>
>> Cab you go to Help | About in Apache NetBeans 11.1 and
>> copy what you see there and paste it here and send it so we can really see
>> what the environment is that you're making use of?
>>
>> Gj
>>
>> On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 7:12 PM Walter Oney <
>> walter.o...@oneylaw.com   > walter.o...@oneylaw.com  >  > walter.o...@oneylaw.com   > walter.o...@oneylaw.com  > > > wrote:
>>
>>
>> I'm doing this particular project on Windows 10.
>> By "installing" I mean running the .exe (if there is one) from a web site
>> or downloading a JAR file and putting it some place where I can find it.
>>
>> I keep having private conversations with Geertjan
>> without meaning to -- from long habit, I hardly ever hit reply-all. Anyhow,
>> he wondered what version of the JDK I was using. Initially, I think I had
>> 11.0 or 11.1. Then I decided to get the latest and greatest, so I
>> uninstalled that and installed 13 without realizing it didn't come with
>> JavaFX (which I need for the graphics). I'm 

Re: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of platform independence

[Geertjan Wielenga]

The samples in the OpenJFX category use Maven, they are the Gluon samples,
yes, they will build with JDK 11 or later.

The category, as stated by Neil, is named OpenJFX, you can see a picture of
them in the 11.1 features page:


On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 7:46 PM Walter Oney  wrote:

> I just noticed that you said to pick a "JavaFX" sample. Duh. I got a
> message to the effect that my JDK doesn't support JavaFX, so the wizard
> doesn't even build an app.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Geertjan Wielenga 
> Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2019 1:41 PM
> To: Walter Oney 
> Cc: Neil C Smith ; NetBeans Mailing List <
> users@netbeans.apache.org>
> Subject: Re: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of platform
> independence
>
> What is the name of the sample that you picked?
>
> Gj
>
> On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 7:40 PM Walter Oney   > wrote:
>
>
> A follow-on: I *did* previously change the value of JAVA_HOME. I
> happened to check in a stale cmd window.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Walter Oney  walter.o...@oneylaw.com> >
> Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2019 1:39 PM
> To: 'Geertjan Wielenga'  geert...@apache.org> >
> Cc: 'Neil C Smith'  neilcsm...@apache.org> >; 'NetBeans Mailing List' <
> users@netbeans.apache.org  >
> Subject: RE: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of platform
> independence
>
> Well, Maven downloaded a whole bunch of things (probably good).
> The run step failed with these three messages:
>
> Error: opening registry key 'Software\JavaSoft\Java Runtime
> Environment' [sure enough, it's not there]
> Error: could not find java.dll [it's in \Program
> Files\Java\jdk-11.0.4\bin, whereas JAVA_HOME is still pointing to jdk-13
> even though I thought I previously changed it by hand.]
> Error: Could not find the Java SE Runtime Environment
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Geertjan Wielenga  geert...@apache.org> >
> Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2019 1:25 PM
> To: Walter Oney  walter.o...@oneylaw.com> >
> Cc: Neil C Smith  neilcsm...@apache.org> >; NetBeans Mailing List   >
> Subject: Re: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of platform
> independence
>
> Now don't do anything other than this -- open the New Project
> dialog, go to the Samples category, in the JavaFX category pick one of the
> two samples you see there. Complete the wizard. Run the sample.
>
> Gj
>
> On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 7:23 PM Walter Oney <
> walter.o...@oneylaw.com    walter.o...@oneylaw.com  > > wrote:
>
>
> Here you go.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Geertjan Wielenga  geert...@apache.org>   > >
> Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2019 1:17 PM
> To: Walter Oney  walter.o...@oneylaw.com>   > >
> Cc: Neil C Smith  neilcsm...@apache.org>   > >; NetBeans Mailing List <
> users@netbeans.apache.org    users@netbeans.apache.org  > >
> Subject: Re: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of
> platform independence
>
> Cab you go to Help | About in Apache NetBeans 11.1 and
> copy what you see there and paste it here and send it so we can really see
> what the environment is that you're making use of?
>
> Gj
>
> On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 7:12 PM Walter Oney <
> walter.o...@oneylaw.com    walter.o...@oneylaw.com  >   walter.o...@oneylaw.com    walter.o...@oneylaw.com  > > > wrote:
>
>
> I'm doing this particular project on Windows 10.
> By "installing" I mean running the .exe (if there is one) from a web site
> or downloading a JAR file and putting it some place where I can find it.
>
> I keep having private conversations with Geertjan
> without meaning to -- from long habit, I hardly ever hit reply-all. Anyhow,
> he wondered what version of the JDK I was using. Initially, I think I had
> 11.0 or 11.1. Then I decided to get the latest and greatest, so I
> uninstalled that and installed 13 without realizing it didn't come with
> JavaFX (which I need for the graphics). I'm back to 11.1 now, which I
> downloaded from Oracle. It appears not to have JavaFX built-in like Oracle
> says it should.
>
> I'm grateful that you guys are working on a
> Saturday and trying to help a newbie out.
>
> 

RE: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of platform independence

[Walter Oney]

A follow-on: I *did* previously change the value of JAVA_HOME. I happened to 
check in a stale cmd window.

-Original Message-
From: Walter Oney  
Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2019 1:39 PM
To: 'Geertjan Wielenga' 
Cc: 'Neil C Smith' ; 'NetBeans Mailing List' 

Subject: RE: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of platform independence

Well, Maven downloaded a whole bunch of things (probably good). The run step 
failed with these three messages:

Error: opening registry key 'Software\JavaSoft\Java Runtime Environment' [sure 
enough, it's not there]
Error: could not find java.dll [it's in \Program Files\Java\jdk-11.0.4\bin, 
whereas JAVA_HOME is still pointing to jdk-13 even though I thought I 
previously changed it by hand.]
Error: Could not find the Java SE Runtime Environment

-Original Message-
From: Geertjan Wielenga  
Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2019 1:25 PM
To: Walter Oney 
Cc: Neil C Smith ; NetBeans Mailing List 

Subject: Re: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of platform independence

Now don't do anything other than this -- open the New Project dialog, go to the 
Samples category, in the JavaFX category pick one of the two samples you see 
there. Complete the wizard. Run the sample.

Gj

On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 7:23 PM Walter Oney mailto:walter.o...@oneylaw.com> > wrote:


Here you go.

-Original Message-
From: Geertjan Wielenga mailto:geert...@apache.org> > 
Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2019 1:17 PM
To: Walter Oney mailto:walter.o...@oneylaw.com> >
Cc: Neil C Smith mailto:neilcsm...@apache.org> 
>; NetBeans Mailing List mailto:users@netbeans.apache.org> >
Subject: Re: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of platform 
independence

Cab you go to Help | About in Apache NetBeans 11.1 and copy what you 
see there and paste it here and send it so we can really see what the 
environment is that you're making use of?

Gj

On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 7:12 PM Walter Oney mailto:walter.o...@oneylaw.com>   > > wrote:


I'm doing this particular project on Windows 10. By 
"installing" I mean running the .exe (if there is one) from a web site or 
downloading a JAR file and putting it some place where I can find it.

I keep having private conversations with Geertjan without 
meaning to -- from long habit, I hardly ever hit reply-all. Anyhow, he wondered 
what version of the JDK I was using. Initially, I think I had 11.0 or 11.1. 
Then I decided to get the latest and greatest, so I uninstalled that and 
installed 13 without realizing it didn't come with JavaFX (which I need for the 
graphics). I'm back to 11.1 now, which I downloaded from Oracle. It appears not 
to have JavaFX built-in like Oracle says it should. 

I'm grateful that you guys are working on a Saturday and trying 
to help a newbie out.

-Original Message-
From: Neil C Smith mailto:neilcsm...@apache.org>   > > 
Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2019 11:37 AM
To: Walter Oney mailto:walter.o...@oneylaw.com>   > >
Cc: NetBeans Mailing List mailto:users@netbeans.apache.org>   > >
Subject: Re: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of 
platform independence

On Sat, 28 Sep 2019 at 12:04, Walter Oney 
mailto:walter.o...@oneylaw.com>  
 > > wrote:
> My current self-assigned task is to port the app to Linux in 
the hope that I’ll find more robust WiFi support than Win10 has. I was hopping 
along as a happy little bunny with NetBeans 8.4 and some version or another of 
the JDK that included JavaFX. I was misled by the incomplete instructions for 
installing JNA to omit downloading jna.jar. Someone later corrected my mistake 
on the stackoverflow forum, but not before I had installed JDK 13, a current 
release of OpenJFX, and NetBeans 11.1. I ended up in Version Hell, which is 
where you go when you have mismatched versions of your tools. I don’t even know 
what the path back might be.

My first thought is are you doing this on the Linux machine you 
talk
about or still on Windows 10?  If Linux, which OS?  And what 
exactly
do you mean by "installing"?  Some of the things you mention 
there
should probably be part of your project but not installed.  
Relying on
Linux packages for anything other than perhaps OpenJDK is very 
hit and
miss!

Best 

RE: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of platform independence

[Walter Oney]

HelloFXWithMaven

-Original Message-
From: Geertjan Wielenga  
Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2019 1:41 PM
To: Walter Oney 
Cc: Neil C Smith ; NetBeans Mailing List 

Subject: Re: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of platform independence

What is the name of the sample that you picked?

Gj

On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 7:40 PM Walter Oney mailto:walter.o...@oneylaw.com> > wrote:


A follow-on: I *did* previously change the value of JAVA_HOME. I 
happened to check in a stale cmd window.

-Original Message-
From: Walter Oney mailto:walter.o...@oneylaw.com> > 
Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2019 1:39 PM
To: 'Geertjan Wielenga' mailto:geert...@apache.org> >
Cc: 'Neil C Smith' mailto:neilcsm...@apache.org> >; 'NetBeans Mailing List' 
mailto:users@netbeans.apache.org> >
Subject: RE: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of platform 
independence

Well, Maven downloaded a whole bunch of things (probably good). The run 
step failed with these three messages:

Error: opening registry key 'Software\JavaSoft\Java Runtime 
Environment' [sure enough, it's not there]
Error: could not find java.dll [it's in \Program 
Files\Java\jdk-11.0.4\bin, whereas JAVA_HOME is still pointing to jdk-13 even 
though I thought I previously changed it by hand.]
Error: Could not find the Java SE Runtime Environment

-Original Message-
From: Geertjan Wielenga mailto:geert...@apache.org> > 
Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2019 1:25 PM
To: Walter Oney mailto:walter.o...@oneylaw.com> >
Cc: Neil C Smith mailto:neilcsm...@apache.org> 
>; NetBeans Mailing List mailto:users@netbeans.apache.org> >
Subject: Re: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of platform 
independence

Now don't do anything other than this -- open the New Project dialog, 
go to the Samples category, in the JavaFX category pick one of the two samples 
you see there. Complete the wizard. Run the sample.

Gj

On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 7:23 PM Walter Oney mailto:walter.o...@oneylaw.com>   > > wrote:


Here you go.

-Original Message-
From: Geertjan Wielenga mailto:geert...@apache.org>   > > 
Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2019 1:17 PM
To: Walter Oney mailto:walter.o...@oneylaw.com>   > >
Cc: Neil C Smith mailto:neilcsm...@apache.org>   > >; NetBeans Mailing List 
mailto:users@netbeans.apache.org>  
 > >
Subject: Re: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of 
platform independence

Cab you go to Help | About in Apache NetBeans 11.1 and copy 
what you see there and paste it here and send it so we can really see what the 
environment is that you're making use of?

Gj

On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 7:12 PM Walter Oney 
mailto:walter.o...@oneylaw.com>  
 >  
  
 > > > wrote:


I'm doing this particular project on Windows 10. By 
"installing" I mean running the .exe (if there is one) from a web site or 
downloading a JAR file and putting it some place where I can find it.

I keep having private conversations with Geertjan 
without meaning to -- from long habit, I hardly ever hit reply-all. Anyhow, he 
wondered what version of the JDK I was using. Initially, I think I had 11.0 or 
11.1. Then I decided to get the latest and greatest, so I uninstalled that and 
installed 13 without realizing it didn't come with JavaFX (which I need for the 
graphics). I'm back to 11.1 now, which I downloaded from Oracle. It appears not 
to have JavaFX built-in like Oracle says it should. 

I'm grateful that you guys are working on a Saturday 
and trying to help a newbie out.

-Original Message-
From: Neil C Smith mailto:neilcsm...@apache.org>   >     > > > 
Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2019 11:37 AM
To: Walter Oney mailto:walter.o...@oneylaw.com>  

Re: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of platform independence

[Geertjan Wielenga]

What is the name of the sample that you picked?

Gj

On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 7:40 PM Walter Oney  wrote:

> A follow-on: I *did* previously change the value of JAVA_HOME. I happened
> to check in a stale cmd window.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Walter Oney 
> Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2019 1:39 PM
> To: 'Geertjan Wielenga' 
> Cc: 'Neil C Smith' ; 'NetBeans Mailing List' <
> users@netbeans.apache.org>
> Subject: RE: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of platform
> independence
>
> Well, Maven downloaded a whole bunch of things (probably good). The run
> step failed with these three messages:
>
> Error: opening registry key 'Software\JavaSoft\Java Runtime Environment'
> [sure enough, it's not there]
> Error: could not find java.dll [it's in \Program
> Files\Java\jdk-11.0.4\bin, whereas JAVA_HOME is still pointing to jdk-13
> even though I thought I previously changed it by hand.]
> Error: Could not find the Java SE Runtime Environment
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Geertjan Wielenga 
> Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2019 1:25 PM
> To: Walter Oney 
> Cc: Neil C Smith ; NetBeans Mailing List <
> users@netbeans.apache.org>
> Subject: Re: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of platform
> independence
>
> Now don't do anything other than this -- open the New Project dialog, go
> to the Samples category, in the JavaFX category pick one of the two samples
> you see there. Complete the wizard. Run the sample.
>
> Gj
>
> On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 7:23 PM Walter Oney   > wrote:
>
>
> Here you go.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Geertjan Wielenga  geert...@apache.org> >
> Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2019 1:17 PM
> To: Walter Oney  walter.o...@oneylaw.com> >
> Cc: Neil C Smith  neilcsm...@apache.org> >; NetBeans Mailing List   >
> Subject: Re: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of platform
> independence
>
> Cab you go to Help | About in Apache NetBeans 11.1 and copy what
> you see there and paste it here and send it so we can really see what the
> environment is that you're making use of?
>
> Gj
>
> On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 7:12 PM Walter Oney <
> walter.o...@oneylaw.com    walter.o...@oneylaw.com  > > wrote:
>
>
> I'm doing this particular project on Windows 10. By
> "installing" I mean running the .exe (if there is one) from a web site or
> downloading a JAR file and putting it some place where I can find it.
>
> I keep having private conversations with Geertjan without
> meaning to -- from long habit, I hardly ever hit reply-all. Anyhow, he
> wondered what version of the JDK I was using. Initially, I think I had 11.0
> or 11.1. Then I decided to get the latest and greatest, so I uninstalled
> that and installed 13 without realizing it didn't come with JavaFX (which I
> need for the graphics). I'm back to 11.1 now, which I downloaded from
> Oracle. It appears not to have JavaFX built-in like Oracle says it should.
>
> I'm grateful that you guys are working on a Saturday and
> trying to help a newbie out.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Neil C Smith  neilcsm...@apache.org>   > >
> Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2019 11:37 AM
> To: Walter Oney  walter.o...@oneylaw.com>   > >
> Cc: NetBeans Mailing List      > >
> Subject: Re: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of
> platform independence
>
> On Sat, 28 Sep 2019 at 12:04, Walter Oney <
> walter.o...@oneylaw.com    walter.o...@oneylaw.com  > > wrote:
> > My current self-assigned task is to port the app to
> Linux in the hope that I’ll find more robust WiFi support than Win10 has. I
> was hopping along as a happy little bunny with NetBeans 8.4 and some
> version or another of the JDK that included JavaFX. I was misled by the
> incomplete instructions for installing JNA to omit downloading jna.jar.
> Someone later corrected my mistake on the stackoverflow forum, but not
> before I had installed JDK 13, a current release of OpenJFX, and NetBeans
> 11.1. I ended up in Version Hell, which is where you go when you have
> mismatched versions of your tools. I don’t even know what the path back
> might be.
>
> My first thought is are you doing this on the Linux
> machine you talk
> about or still on Windows 10?  If Linux, which OS?  And
> what exactly
> do you mean by "installing"?  Some of the things you
> mention there
>  

Re: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of platform independence

[Neil C Smith]

On Sat, 28 Sep 2019, 18:25 Geertjan Wielenga,  wrote:

> Now don't do anything other than this -- open the New Project dialog, go
> to the Samples category, in the JavaFX category pick one of the two samples
> you see there. Complete the wizard. Run the sample.
>

Note in 11.1 that's the OpenJFX category IIRC.

Best wishes,

Neil

>

RE: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of platform independence

[Walter Oney]

Well, Maven downloaded a whole bunch of things (probably good). The run step 
failed with these three messages:

Error: opening registry key 'Software\JavaSoft\Java Runtime Environment' [sure 
enough, it's not there]
Error: could not find java.dll [it's in \Program Files\Java\jdk-11.0.4\bin, 
whereas JAVA_HOME is still pointing to jdk-13 even though I thought I 
previously changed it by hand.]
Error: Could not find the Java SE Runtime Environment

-Original Message-
From: Geertjan Wielenga  
Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2019 1:25 PM
To: Walter Oney 
Cc: Neil C Smith ; NetBeans Mailing List 

Subject: Re: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of platform independence

Now don't do anything other than this -- open the New Project dialog, go to the 
Samples category, in the JavaFX category pick one of the two samples you see 
there. Complete the wizard. Run the sample.

Gj

On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 7:23 PM Walter Oney mailto:walter.o...@oneylaw.com> > wrote:


Here you go.

-Original Message-
From: Geertjan Wielenga mailto:geert...@apache.org> > 
Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2019 1:17 PM
To: Walter Oney mailto:walter.o...@oneylaw.com> >
Cc: Neil C Smith mailto:neilcsm...@apache.org> 
>; NetBeans Mailing List mailto:users@netbeans.apache.org> >
Subject: Re: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of platform 
independence

Cab you go to Help | About in Apache NetBeans 11.1 and copy what you 
see there and paste it here and send it so we can really see what the 
environment is that you're making use of?

Gj

On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 7:12 PM Walter Oney mailto:walter.o...@oneylaw.com>   > > wrote:


I'm doing this particular project on Windows 10. By 
"installing" I mean running the .exe (if there is one) from a web site or 
downloading a JAR file and putting it some place where I can find it.

I keep having private conversations with Geertjan without 
meaning to -- from long habit, I hardly ever hit reply-all. Anyhow, he wondered 
what version of the JDK I was using. Initially, I think I had 11.0 or 11.1. 
Then I decided to get the latest and greatest, so I uninstalled that and 
installed 13 without realizing it didn't come with JavaFX (which I need for the 
graphics). I'm back to 11.1 now, which I downloaded from Oracle. It appears not 
to have JavaFX built-in like Oracle says it should. 

I'm grateful that you guys are working on a Saturday and trying 
to help a newbie out.

-Original Message-
From: Neil C Smith mailto:neilcsm...@apache.org>   > > 
Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2019 11:37 AM
To: Walter Oney mailto:walter.o...@oneylaw.com>   > >
Cc: NetBeans Mailing List mailto:users@netbeans.apache.org>   > >
Subject: Re: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of 
platform independence

On Sat, 28 Sep 2019 at 12:04, Walter Oney 
mailto:walter.o...@oneylaw.com>  
 > > wrote:
> My current self-assigned task is to port the app to Linux in 
the hope that I’ll find more robust WiFi support than Win10 has. I was hopping 
along as a happy little bunny with NetBeans 8.4 and some version or another of 
the JDK that included JavaFX. I was misled by the incomplete instructions for 
installing JNA to omit downloading jna.jar. Someone later corrected my mistake 
on the stackoverflow forum, but not before I had installed JDK 13, a current 
release of OpenJFX, and NetBeans 11.1. I ended up in Version Hell, which is 
where you go when you have mismatched versions of your tools. I don’t even know 
what the path back might be.

My first thought is are you doing this on the Linux machine you 
talk
about or still on Windows 10?  If Linux, which OS?  And what 
exactly
do you mean by "installing"?  Some of the things you mention 
there
should probably be part of your project but not installed.  
Relying on
Linux packages for anything other than perhaps OpenJDK is very 
hit and
miss!

Best wishes,

Neil




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To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@netbeans.apache.org 
 
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Re: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of platform independence

[Scott Palmer]

Oracle does not state that JavaFX is included in Java 11.  Java 11 is the 
release where many modules were removed.
Java 11 and later must use the modules from the JavaFX SDK.  The Maven and 
Gradle plugins should make that fairly easy.  Though working with external 
modules is awkward in general because of how they are not supported at runtime 
and modules are the delivery mechanism for the native libraries that go with 
the java classes,

Scott 

> On Sep 28, 2019, at 1:23 PM, Walter Oney  wrote:
> 
> Here you go.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Geertjan Wielenga mailto:geert...@apache.org>> 
> Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2019 1:17 PM
> To: Walter Oney mailto:walter.o...@oneylaw.com>>
> Cc: Neil C Smith mailto:neilcsm...@apache.org>>; 
> NetBeans Mailing List  >
> Subject: Re: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of platform independence
> 
> Cab you go to Help | About in Apache NetBeans 11.1 and copy what you see 
> there and paste it here and send it so we can really see what the environment 
> is that you're making use of?
> 
> Gj
> 
> On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 7:12 PM Walter Oney    > > wrote:
> 
> 
>   I'm doing this particular project on Windows 10. By "installing" I mean 
> running the .exe (if there is one) from a web site or downloading a JAR file 
> and putting it some place where I can find it.
>   
>   I keep having private conversations with Geertjan without meaning to -- 
> from long habit, I hardly ever hit reply-all. Anyhow, he wondered what 
> version of the JDK I was using. Initially, I think I had 11.0 or 11.1. Then I 
> decided to get the latest and greatest, so I uninstalled that and installed 
> 13 without realizing it didn't come with JavaFX (which I need for the 
> graphics). I'm back to 11.1 now, which I downloaded from Oracle. It appears 
> not to have JavaFX built-in like Oracle says it should. 
>   
>   I'm grateful that you guys are working on a Saturday and trying to help 
> a newbie out.
>   
>   -Original Message-
>   From: Neil C Smith    > > 
>   Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2019 11:37 AM
>   To: Walter Oney    > >
>   Cc: NetBeans Mailing List    > >
>   Subject: Re: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of platform 
> independence
>   
>   On Sat, 28 Sep 2019 at 12:04, Walter Oney    > > wrote:
>   > My current self-assigned task is to port the app to Linux in the hope 
> that I’ll find more robust WiFi support than Win10 has. I was hopping along 
> as a happy little bunny with NetBeans 8.4 and some version or another of the 
> JDK that included JavaFX. I was misled by the incomplete instructions for 
> installing JNA to omit downloading jna.jar. Someone later corrected my 
> mistake on the stackoverflow forum, but not before I had installed JDK 13, a 
> current release of OpenJFX, and NetBeans 11.1. I ended up in Version Hell, 
> which is where you go when you have mismatched versions of your tools. I 
> don’t even know what the path back might be.
>   
>   My first thought is are you doing this on the Linux machine you talk
>   about or still on Windows 10?  If Linux, which OS?  And what exactly
>   do you mean by "installing"?  Some of the things you mention there
>   should probably be part of your project but not installed.  Relying on
>   Linux packages for anything other than perhaps OpenJDK is very hit and
>   miss!
>   
>   Best wishes,
>   
>   Neil
>   
>   
> 
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@netbeans.apache.org 
> 
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@netbeans.apache.org 
> 
> 
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists 
> 

RE: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of platform independence

[Walter Oney]

I thought I was an old-timer by decades. Guess not -- my first program was 
written on paper tape for an Alwac 3-E (tubes, you know) at a math camp in 
1967. I've been a professional programmer since 1969, but my interests and 
economic realities steered me through IBM and Microsoft products.

My observation still stands, though. The world of Java and its offshoots is 
pretty much the wild west right now. When this kind of thing happened to 
hardware in the 70's, people banded together to define standards that were much 
easier to describe and enforce. Getting a bunch of programmers to agree on 
anything is like herding cats.

-Original Message-
From: Chris Olsen  
Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2019 12:56 PM
To: Jack Woehr 
Cc: NetBeans Mailing List 
Subject: Re: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of platform independence

Jack and All --

  I fear that my jpackage question of a few days ago unintentionally ignited 
something of a contentious discussion, for which I must apologize!  I beat Jack 
by 5 years having been in this game (as a hobby mostly) for about 45 years.  I 
agree with Jack's sentiments below -- programming IS a pain in the butt -- but 
also brings the excitement of the hunt and pride of problem solved. (Easy for 
me to say -- I work in an academic environment without the real-world time 
pressure most of you probably work under.)

  As I try to move from 8 to 11 I, too, wish it were easier -- but until it is 
I (mostly) enjoy the hunt and (totally) appreciate the assistance and wisdom of 
the people on this list.

  -- Chris

  

- Original Message -
From: Jack Woehr 
To: Neil C Smith 
Cc: Walter Oney , NetBeans Mailing List 

Sent: Sat, 28 Sep 2019 12:14:35 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of platform independence

I apologize if my comment was unclear. I was trying to be light. I think
Mosca and Oney pretty much got what I was saying.

I've been in this game for about 40 years.

Stuff comes and goes.

Programming is always a pain in the butt. If it wasn't, everyone would do
it and it would be a minimum wage job.

You learn something and then it's gone and you learn something else.

You wrestle with other people's code.

The late Stan Kelly-Bootle was joking about this decades ago in his *Devil's
DP Dictionary*.

I feel everyone's pain because it's my pain, too. Still wrestling with it.
Such is the life of the programmer!


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Re: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of platform independence

[Geertjan Wielenga]

Now don't do anything other than this -- open the New Project dialog, go to
the Samples category, in the JavaFX category pick one of the two samples
you see there. Complete the wizard. Run the sample.

Gj

On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 7:23 PM Walter Oney  wrote:

> Here you go.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Geertjan Wielenga 
> Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2019 1:17 PM
> To: Walter Oney 
> Cc: Neil C Smith ; NetBeans Mailing List <
> users@netbeans.apache.org>
> Subject: Re: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of platform
> independence
>
> Cab you go to Help | About in Apache NetBeans 11.1 and copy what you see
> there and paste it here and send it so we can really see what the
> environment is that you're making use of?
>
> Gj
>
> On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 7:12 PM Walter Oney   > wrote:
>
>
> I'm doing this particular project on Windows 10. By "installing" I
> mean running the .exe (if there is one) from a web site or downloading a
> JAR file and putting it some place where I can find it.
>
> I keep having private conversations with Geertjan without meaning
> to -- from long habit, I hardly ever hit reply-all. Anyhow, he wondered
> what version of the JDK I was using. Initially, I think I had 11.0 or 11.1.
> Then I decided to get the latest and greatest, so I uninstalled that and
> installed 13 without realizing it didn't come with JavaFX (which I need for
> the graphics). I'm back to 11.1 now, which I downloaded from Oracle. It
> appears not to have JavaFX built-in like Oracle says it should.
>
> I'm grateful that you guys are working on a Saturday and trying to
> help a newbie out.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Neil C Smith  neilcsm...@apache.org> >
> Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2019 11:37 AM
> To: Walter Oney  walter.o...@oneylaw.com> >
> Cc: NetBeans Mailing List  users@netbeans.apache.org> >
> Subject: Re: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of platform
> independence
>
> On Sat, 28 Sep 2019 at 12:04, Walter Oney   > wrote:
> > My current self-assigned task is to port the app to Linux in the
> hope that I’ll find more robust WiFi support than Win10 has. I was hopping
> along as a happy little bunny with NetBeans 8.4 and some version or another
> of the JDK that included JavaFX. I was misled by the incomplete
> instructions for installing JNA to omit downloading jna.jar. Someone later
> corrected my mistake on the stackoverflow forum, but not before I had
> installed JDK 13, a current release of OpenJFX, and NetBeans 11.1. I ended
> up in Version Hell, which is where you go when you have mismatched versions
> of your tools. I don’t even know what the path back might be.
>
> My first thought is are you doing this on the Linux machine you
> talk
> about or still on Windows 10?  If Linux, which OS?  And what
> exactly
> do you mean by "installing"?  Some of the things you mention there
> should probably be part of your project but not installed.
> Relying on
> Linux packages for anything other than perhaps OpenJDK is very hit
> and
> miss!
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Neil
>
>
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@netbeans.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@netbeans.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists

RE: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of platform independence

[Walter Oney]

Here you go.

-Original Message-
From: Geertjan Wielenga  
Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2019 1:17 PM
To: Walter Oney 
Cc: Neil C Smith ; NetBeans Mailing List 

Subject: Re: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of platform independence

Cab you go to Help | About in Apache NetBeans 11.1 and copy what you see there 
and paste it here and send it so we can really see what the environment is that 
you're making use of?

Gj

On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 7:12 PM Walter Oney mailto:walter.o...@oneylaw.com> > wrote:


I'm doing this particular project on Windows 10. By "installing" I mean 
running the .exe (if there is one) from a web site or downloading a JAR file 
and putting it some place where I can find it.

I keep having private conversations with Geertjan without meaning to -- 
from long habit, I hardly ever hit reply-all. Anyhow, he wondered what version 
of the JDK I was using. Initially, I think I had 11.0 or 11.1. Then I decided 
to get the latest and greatest, so I uninstalled that and installed 13 without 
realizing it didn't come with JavaFX (which I need for the graphics). I'm back 
to 11.1 now, which I downloaded from Oracle. It appears not to have JavaFX 
built-in like Oracle says it should. 

I'm grateful that you guys are working on a Saturday and trying to help 
a newbie out.

-Original Message-
From: Neil C Smith mailto:neilcsm...@apache.org> > 
Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2019 11:37 AM
To: Walter Oney mailto:walter.o...@oneylaw.com> >
Cc: NetBeans Mailing List mailto:users@netbeans.apache.org> >
Subject: Re: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of platform 
independence

On Sat, 28 Sep 2019 at 12:04, Walter Oney mailto:walter.o...@oneylaw.com> > wrote:
> My current self-assigned task is to port the app to Linux in the hope 
that I’ll find more robust WiFi support than Win10 has. I was hopping along as 
a happy little bunny with NetBeans 8.4 and some version or another of the JDK 
that included JavaFX. I was misled by the incomplete instructions for 
installing JNA to omit downloading jna.jar. Someone later corrected my mistake 
on the stackoverflow forum, but not before I had installed JDK 13, a current 
release of OpenJFX, and NetBeans 11.1. I ended up in Version Hell, which is 
where you go when you have mismatched versions of your tools. I don’t even know 
what the path back might be.

My first thought is are you doing this on the Linux machine you talk
about or still on Windows 10?  If Linux, which OS?  And what exactly
do you mean by "installing"?  Some of the things you mention there
should probably be part of your project but not installed.  Relying on
Linux packages for anything other than perhaps OpenJDK is very hit and
miss!

Best wishes,

Neil




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RE: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of platform independence

[Walter Oney]

I'm doing this particular project on Windows 10. By "installing" I mean running 
the .exe (if there is one) from a web site or downloading a JAR file and 
putting it some place where I can find it.

I keep having private conversations with Geertjan without meaning to -- from 
long habit, I hardly ever hit reply-all. Anyhow, he wondered what version of 
the JDK I was using. Initially, I think I had 11.0 or 11.1. Then I decided to 
get the latest and greatest, so I uninstalled that and installed 13 without 
realizing it didn't come with JavaFX (which I need for the graphics). I'm back 
to 11.1 now, which I downloaded from Oracle. It appears not to have JavaFX 
built-in like Oracle says it should. 

I'm grateful that you guys are working on a Saturday and trying to help a 
newbie out.

-Original Message-
From: Neil C Smith  
Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2019 11:37 AM
To: Walter Oney 
Cc: NetBeans Mailing List 
Subject: Re: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of platform independence

On Sat, 28 Sep 2019 at 12:04, Walter Oney  wrote:
> My current self-assigned task is to port the app to Linux in the hope that 
> I’ll find more robust WiFi support than Win10 has. I was hopping along as a 
> happy little bunny with NetBeans 8.4 and some version or another of the JDK 
> that included JavaFX. I was misled by the incomplete instructions for 
> installing JNA to omit downloading jna.jar. Someone later corrected my 
> mistake on the stackoverflow forum, but not before I had installed JDK 13, a 
> current release of OpenJFX, and NetBeans 11.1. I ended up in Version Hell, 
> which is where you go when you have mismatched versions of your tools. I 
> don’t even know what the path back might be.

My first thought is are you doing this on the Linux machine you talk
about or still on Windows 10?  If Linux, which OS?  And what exactly
do you mean by "installing"?  Some of the things you mention there
should probably be part of your project but not installed.  Relying on
Linux packages for anything other than perhaps OpenJDK is very hit and
miss!

Best wishes,

Neil


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Re: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of platform independence

[Geertjan Wielenga]

Cab you go to Help | About in Apache NetBeans 11.1 and copy what you see
there and paste it here and send it so we can really see what the
environment is that you're making use of?

Gj

On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 7:12 PM Walter Oney  wrote:

> I'm doing this particular project on Windows 10. By "installing" I mean
> running the .exe (if there is one) from a web site or downloading a JAR
> file and putting it some place where I can find it.
>
> I keep having private conversations with Geertjan without meaning to --
> from long habit, I hardly ever hit reply-all. Anyhow, he wondered what
> version of the JDK I was using. Initially, I think I had 11.0 or 11.1. Then
> I decided to get the latest and greatest, so I uninstalled that and
> installed 13 without realizing it didn't come with JavaFX (which I need for
> the graphics). I'm back to 11.1 now, which I downloaded from Oracle. It
> appears not to have JavaFX built-in like Oracle says it should.
>
> I'm grateful that you guys are working on a Saturday and trying to help a
> newbie out.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Neil C Smith 
> Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2019 11:37 AM
> To: Walter Oney 
> Cc: NetBeans Mailing List 
> Subject: Re: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of platform
> independence
>
> On Sat, 28 Sep 2019 at 12:04, Walter Oney  wrote:
> > My current self-assigned task is to port the app to Linux in the hope
> that I’ll find more robust WiFi support than Win10 has. I was hopping along
> as a happy little bunny with NetBeans 8.4 and some version or another of
> the JDK that included JavaFX. I was misled by the incomplete instructions
> for installing JNA to omit downloading jna.jar. Someone later corrected my
> mistake on the stackoverflow forum, but not before I had installed JDK 13,
> a current release of OpenJFX, and NetBeans 11.1. I ended up in Version
> Hell, which is where you go when you have mismatched versions of your
> tools. I don’t even know what the path back might be.
>
> My first thought is are you doing this on the Linux machine you talk
> about or still on Windows 10?  If Linux, which OS?  And what exactly
> do you mean by "installing"?  Some of the things you mention there
> should probably be part of your project but not installed.  Relying on
> Linux packages for anything other than perhaps OpenJDK is very hit and
> miss!
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Neil
>
>

Re: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of platform independence

[Chris Olsen]

Jack and All --

  I fear that my jpackage question of a few days ago unintentionally ignited 
something of a contentious discussion, for which I must apologize!  I beat Jack 
by 5 years having been in this game (as a hobby mostly) for about 45 years.  I 
agree with Jack's sentiments below -- programming IS a pain in the butt -- but 
also brings the excitement of the hunt and pride of problem solved. (Easy for 
me to say -- I work in an academic environment without the real-world time 
pressure most of you probably work under.)

  As I try to move from 8 to 11 I, too, wish it were easier -- but until it is 
I (mostly) enjoy the hunt and (totally) appreciate the assistance and wisdom of 
the people on this list.

  -- Chris

  

- Original Message -
From: Jack Woehr 
To: Neil C Smith 
Cc: Walter Oney , NetBeans Mailing List 

Sent: Sat, 28 Sep 2019 12:14:35 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of platform independence

I apologize if my comment was unclear. I was trying to be light. I think
Mosca and Oney pretty much got what I was saying.

I've been in this game for about 40 years.

Stuff comes and goes.

Programming is always a pain in the butt. If it wasn't, everyone would do
it and it would be a minimum wage job.

You learn something and then it's gone and you learn something else.

You wrestle with other people's code.

The late Stan Kelly-Bootle was joking about this decades ago in his *Devil's
DP Dictionary*.

I feel everyone's pain because it's my pain, too. Still wrestling with it.
Such is the life of the programmer!


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Re: The last straw

[Geertjan Wielenga]

On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 5:05 PM Alan Cameron
 wrote:

> Hi All,
>
>
>
> Walter Oney’s email is the last straw for me.
>

You're referring to someone whose problem isn't JavaFX or anything else --
other than that he's been struggling to start up NetBeans itself and all
his other issues stem from that.

Gj




>
>
> I had been a user of NetBeans 8.2 , using it for self-training in C, C++
> and PHP when this Apache incubation thing started and NetBeans 8.2 was
> dropped from any sort of support. I have been watching the emails to this
> list with increasing worries that it would never get around to PHP let
> alone C, C++.
>
>
>
> The organisation has lost its way and is not helping itself by diverging
> from some sort of common ground.
>
>
>
> A radical rethink is long overdue and I wonder how commercial shops can
> stand the ever mounting problems with this and that. I am surprised there
> are any commercial users left using NetBeans.
>
>
>
> I will be cancelling my subscription to this and other list tarred with
> the Apache name.
>
>
>
> Goodbye.
>
>
>
> From Alan Cameron
>
> Please reply to alan.camer...@virginmedia.com
>
>
>

Re: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of platform independence

[Jack Woehr]

I apologize if my comment was unclear. I was trying to be light. I think
Mosca and Oney pretty much got what I was saying.

I've been in this game for about 40 years.

Stuff comes and goes.

Programming is always a pain in the butt. If it wasn't, everyone would do
it and it would be a minimum wage job.

You learn something and then it's gone and you learn something else.

You wrestle with other people's code.

The late Stan Kelly-Bootle was joking about this decades ago in his *Devil's
DP Dictionary*.

I feel everyone's pain because it's my pain, too. Still wrestling with it.
Such is the life of the programmer!

Re: The last straw

[Emilian Bold]

Curious why you mean by "the organization" and what you think should happen
more concretely.

--emi

sâm., 28 sept. 2019, 18:05 Alan Cameron
 a scris:

> Hi All,
>
>
>
> Walter Oney’s email is the last straw for me.
>
>
>
> I had been a user of NetBeans 8.2 , using it for self-training in C, C++
> and PHP when this Apache incubation thing started and NetBeans 8.2 was
> dropped from any sort of support. I have been watching the emails to this
> list with increasing worries that it would never get around to PHP let
> alone C, C++.
>
>
>
> The organisation has lost its way and is not helping itself by diverging
> from some sort of common ground.
>
>
>
> A radical rethink is long overdue and I wonder how commercial shops can
> stand the ever mounting problems with this and that. I am surprised there
> are any commercial users left using NetBeans.
>
>
>
> I will be cancelling my subscription to this and other list tarred with
> the Apache name.
>
>
>
> Goodbye.
>
>
>
> From Alan Cameron
>
> Please reply to alan.camer...@virginmedia.com
>
>
>

Re: The last straw

[Thomas Wolf]

Cameron,
I think you’re severely mischaracterizing the situation - NB hasn’t lost its 
way, but it has lost corporate sponsorship.

In the old days, Sun, flush with cash and a desire to promote Java, bought the 
little startup from Europe and provided the financial resources to make it  
flourish.  I think the turning point for NB came when Oracle bought Sun.   I 
think Java in general and NB in particular weren’t important to the Database 
giant.  Java itself didn’t suffer much as it had become one of the top 
languages of the world and millions of developers and thousands of 
organizations depended on it and were, thus, willing to support its continued 
growth.  But NB, even in the days of Sun, had to compete with other IDEs - 
initially Symantec’s Visual Cafe and later IntelliJ and Eclipse.  The latter, 
“free” like NB, became the 800lb gorilla in the room.  Always supported by IBM 
and then also other companies.  But NB managed to hold its own until Oracle 
decided to no longer support it at the level it needed.  IMO, the spin-off to 
Apache was just Oracle trying to shed itself of this “cost center” and try to 
have the folks that use NB become more responsible for its future.

I applaud the devs who came from Sun & Oracle to continue to diligently direct 
NB’s development and future.  But it’s up to to its users to make this work.  
If you need a feature, don’t simply complain about it not being there - help 
develop it!  Otherwise you’re really just a whining freeloader.

If you helped work to make NB better, goodbye.  Otherwise, goodbye and good 
riddance.

Tom Wolf
(another freeloader - but one who’s not whining.)

> On Sep 28, 2019, at 11:05 AM, Alan Cameron 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi All,
>  
> Walter Oney’s email is the last straw for me.
>  
> I had been a user of NetBeans 8.2 , using it for self-training in C, C++ and 
> PHP when this Apache incubation thing started and NetBeans 8.2 was dropped 
> from any sort of support. I have been watching the emails to this list with 
> increasing worries that it would never get around to PHP let alone C, C++.
>  
> The organisation has lost its way and is not helping itself by diverging from 
> some sort of common ground.
>  
> A radical rethink is long overdue and I wonder how commercial shops can stand 
> the ever mounting problems with this and that. I am surprised there are any 
> commercial users left using NetBeans.
>  
> I will be cancelling my subscription to this and other list tarred with the 
> Apache name.
>  
> Goodbye.
>  
> From Alan Cameron
> Please reply to alan.camer...@virginmedia.com
>  

Re: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of platform independence

[Neil C Smith]

On Sat, 28 Sep 2019 at 12:04, Walter Oney  wrote:
> My current self-assigned task is to port the app to Linux in the hope that 
> I’ll find more robust WiFi support than Win10 has. I was hopping along as a 
> happy little bunny with NetBeans 8.4 and some version or another of the JDK 
> that included JavaFX. I was misled by the incomplete instructions for 
> installing JNA to omit downloading jna.jar. Someone later corrected my 
> mistake on the stackoverflow forum, but not before I had installed JDK 13, a 
> current release of OpenJFX, and NetBeans 11.1. I ended up in Version Hell, 
> which is where you go when you have mismatched versions of your tools. I 
> don’t even know what the path back might be.

My first thought is are you doing this on the Linux machine you talk
about or still on Windows 10?  If Linux, which OS?  And what exactly
do you mean by "installing"?  Some of the things you mention there
should probably be part of your project but not installed.  Relying on
Linux packages for anything other than perhaps OpenJDK is very hit and
miss!

Best wishes,

Neil

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Re: The last straw

[Glenn Holmer]

On 9/28/19 10:21 AM, Neil C Smith wrote:
> On Sat, 28 Sep 2019 at 16:05, Alan Cameron
>  wrote:
>> A radical rethink is long overdue.
> 
> Apache *is* the radical rethink!

+1

-- 
Glenn Holmer (Linux registered user #16682)
"After the vintage season came the aftermath -- and Cenbe."
<>
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Re: The last straw

[Neil C Smith]

On Sat, 28 Sep 2019 at 16:05, Alan Cameron
 wrote:
> Walter Oney’s email is the last straw for me.

Why?!

> I had been a user of NetBeans 8.2 , using it for self-training in C, C++ and 
> PHP when this Apache incubation thing started and NetBeans 8.2 was dropped 
> from any sort of support. I have been watching the emails to this list with 
> increasing worries that it would never get around to PHP let alone C, C++.

PHP is in, C/C++ should be coming in 11.3 in January, or you can still
install the old plugins as far as I know.

> A radical rethink is long overdue and I wonder how commercial shops can stand 
> the ever mounting problems with this and that. I am surprised there are any 
> commercial users left using NetBeans.

Apache *is* the radical rethink!  Another radical rethink is the last
thing we need right now.

These things take time to happen, like any other community driven
software - I still wouldn't choose to use anything else.  But choose
to use what is right for you!

Best wishes,

Neil

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Re: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of platform independence

[Geertjan Wielenga]

On Sat, 28 Sep 2019 at 15:41, Jack Woehr  wrote:

>
> Programmers gotta program. If that includes figuring out the rat's nest
> that Other Programmers has created, well, that's why they pay us.
>

There are no Other Programmers in Apache projects. Just you and me and
everyone as equals working together on the project that is Apache NetBeans.

What can be better? Define the issue you have and your proposals to solve
it and we’ll work on it, together.

Gj





>

Re: Question on Netbeans 11 and C++

[Scott Palmer]

I respect their efforts and what they accomplished, but I disagree entirely 
with their approach if your intent is to develop native windows code.  It is 
primarily useful for academic purposes. It is an incompatible system that 
exists in a parallel universe.  

Anyway my point was to express the real need for C/C++ support on Windows that 
works with native Windows SDKs. The JDK itself uses some Cygwin tools in the 
build process, but is ultimately compiled with Visual Studio compilers. I’m 
pretty sure there’s a good reason for not using the GNU compilers as it would 
be much less effort to have a common compiler on Linux and Windows. 

Scott


> On Sep 28, 2019, at 4:55 AM, Peter Kovacs  wrote:
> 
> This kind of picking winners has no place in the ASF. 
> Don't get me wrong I would like to see a better integration within windows. 
> OpenOffice build environment is very awkward in windows. But please Fokus on 
> the integration and not on history you seem at least not to care about, or 
> you do not know. 
> Cygwin has earned its respect by providing a tool chain and Unix tools to 
> windows. this made it possible to deliver software for Windows, Linux, and 
> Mac OS.
> Something a lot of professional windows based software fails to provide. The 
> open source community builds wine to counter this. Which again is an awesome 
> effort mostly not understood. 
> 
> Please show some respect. Degrade efforts of others is not what makes open 
> source community work. 
> 
> 
> Am 28. September 2019 03:32:41 MESZ schrieb Scott Palmer :
>> 
>> The other option is MinGW, both it and Cygwin are *NEVER* used by 
>> professional developers on Windows.
>> 
>> They don’t work with the Windows SDK but instead attempt to supply their own 
>> version of Windows header files.
>> Both options rely on awkward hacks to make Windows appear to have some more 
>> unix-like  APIs. As a result you often end up with writing code that is very 
>> much not the way you would typically do things on  Windows.  This results in 
>> half-assed ports of native bits that never quite align with what Windows 
>> users expect.
>> Those tools may be suitable for students to experiment with, but they just 
>> don’t cut it for writing proper native code for Windows.
>> 
>> Proper C/C++ support on Windows means using a native Windows toolset.  
>> Visual C++, or perhaps Intel’s compiler.  Or at least something that can 
>> compile and  link with actual binaries and headers from the official Windows 
>> SDK.
>> 
>> Gradle’s cpp-library plugin properly uses Windows tools on Windows instead 
>> of trying to make Windows look like unix and only working with an awkward 
>> compatibility layer.
>> 
>> Sorry… rant over.
>> 
>> Scott
>> 
>>> On Sep 27, 2019, at 1:56 PM, Alonso Del Arte  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Scott wrote:
>>> 
>>> > Existing NetBeans C/C++ support on Windows is not very practical. 
>>> > Bordering on almost unusable actually.  (It requires use of a toolset 
>>> > that is virtually never used on Windows for native development, is 
>>> > incompatible with Windows SDKs, and difficult to maintain and configure.) 
>>> 
>>> For what it's worth, I've had no problem with simple C++ console 
>>> applications in NetBeans 8.2 under Windows 8.2 (neither of those are going 
>>> to get upgraded). I went with Cygwin64, I remember there was another option 
>>> but I don't remember why I rejected it. I've found Java AWT and Swing to be 
>>> quite adequate for when I need a GUI.
>>> 
>>> I have yet to try to do anything with C++ on my Mac, on which I now have 
>>> both NetBeans 8.2 and 11.1. Worst case scenario if I ever need to work on 
>>> C++ on my Mac, I can probably use GCC on the command line if XCode won't 
>>> cut it.
>>> 
>>> Al
>>> 
>>> On Fri, Sep 27, 2019 at 9:51 AM Scott Palmer  wrote:
 Would be great to see C/C++ support via Gradle’s 'cpp-library’ plugin.  A 
 smooth Java + JNI   project setup would be welcome along with it.
 
 Existing NetBeans C/C++ support on Windows is not very practical. 
 Bordering on almost unusable actually.  (It requires use of a toolset that 
 is virtually never used on Windows for native development, is incompatible 
 with Windows SDKs, and difficult to maintain and configure.)
 
> On Sep 27, 2019, at 4:25 AM, Geertjan Wielenga  
> wrote:
> 
> Yes, that is called the Apache Software Foundation.
> 
> Gj
> 
> On Fri, 27 Sep 2019 at 09:24, Ulf Zibis  wrote:
>> 
>> Am 26.09.19 um 23:02 schrieb Peter Kovacs:
>> > I do not understand the question. Can you elaborate?
>> 
>> My understanding of "donation" was, that there is a kind of crowdfunding
>> to support the C/C++ plugin.
>> 
>> -Ulf
 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Alonso del Arte
>>> Author at SmashWords.com
>>> Musician at ReverbNation.com
>> 

Re: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of platform independence

[Carl Mosca]

+1 Jack

On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 9:40 AM Jack Woehr  wrote:

>
>
> On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 6:57 AM Emilian Bold 
> wrote:
>
>> If it's of any help it is almost impossible to get all the Python
>> dependencies for Machine Learning. This is in spite of virtualenv, anaconda
>> and whatever other solutions exist specifically to fix this. Don't get me
>> started on doing this on macOS vs Linux.
>>
>
> I feel your pain! We could talk about Python for hours ... :)
>
> Programmers gotta program. If that includes figuring out the rat's nest
> that Other Programmers has created, well, that's why they pay us.
>
> --
Regards,
Carl

Re: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of platform independence

[Jack Woehr]

On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 6:57 AM Emilian Bold  wrote:

> If it's of any help it is almost impossible to get all the Python
> dependencies for Machine Learning. This is in spite of virtualenv, anaconda
> and whatever other solutions exist specifically to fix this. Don't get me
> started on doing this on macOS vs Linux.
>

I feel your pain! We could talk about Python for hours ... :)

Programmers gotta program. If that includes figuring out the rat's nest
that Other Programmers has created, well, that's why they pay us.

Re: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of platform independence

[Emilian Bold]

If it's of any help it is almost impossible to get all the Python
dependencies for Machine Learning. This is in spite of virtualenv, anaconda
and whatever other solutions exist specifically to fix this. Don't get me
started on doing this on macOS vs Linux.

So it looks like platform independence is a far away dream regardless of
tech stack. We are supposed to just put Dockers inside VMs until we
virtualize everything and the we know that two libraries will talk to each
other.

In other words QA has gone downhill.

--emi

sâm., 28 sept. 2019, 13:58 Walter Oney  a scris:

> As a very experienced developer who is new to the world of Java, JavaFX,
> and NetBeans I have to share a lament about the current state of the tools.
>
>
>
> It should be possible for an untutored user to obtain a working
> development environment with trivial ease. It is not. Instead, one appears
> to have to navigate a maze of version and vendor incompatibilities with no
> certainty of success. Do I get my JDK from Oracle or someone else? Ditto
> JAVAFX and NetBeans. And which of the dozens of downloads do I pick?
>
>
>
> In my particular situation, I’m trying to develop a Java version of an MFC
> app I built for my model railroad. As a hobbyist, that is – no commercial
> product is in prospect. My current self-assigned task is to port the app to
> Linux in the hope that I’ll find more robust WiFi support than Win10 has.
> I was hopping along as a happy little bunny with NetBeans 8.4 and some
> version or another of the JDK that included JavaFX. I was misled by the
> incomplete instructions for installing JNA to omit downloading jna.jar.
> Someone later corrected my mistake on the stackoverflow forum, but not
> before I had installed JDK 13, a current release of OpenJFX, and NetBeans
> 11.1. I ended up in Version Hell, which is where you go when you have
> mismatched versions of your tools. I don’t even know what the path back
> might be.
>
>
>
> My point here is that Java is supposed to be a platform independent
> language. To encourage its use, though, those of you who are responsible
> for its development and evangelism need to do a better job of bundling
> self-consistent versions of the tools and/or providing a tool manifest that
> someone like me can easily find and follow in order to download the tools
> separately. NetBeans would be a logical place to test for AND CORRECT
> version incompatibilities. I don’t have the patience to help in that
> effort, so it looks like I’ll have to abandon Java and craft a Linux-only
> solution in C++.
>
>
>
> --
>
> Walter C. Oney, Jr., Esq.
> 267 Pearl Hill Rd., Fitchburg, MA 01420
> Tel.: 978-343-3390
> http://www.oneylaw.com
>
>
>

sâm., 28 sept. 2019, 13:58 Walter Oney  a scris:

> As a very experienced developer who is new to the world of Java, JavaFX,
> and NetBeans I have to share a lament about the current state of the tools.
>
>
>
> It should be possible for an untutored user to obtain a working
> development environment with trivial ease. It is not. Instead, one appears
> to have to navigate a maze of version and vendor incompatibilities with no
> certainty of success. Do I get my JDK from Oracle or someone else? Ditto
> JAVAFX and NetBeans. And which of the dozens of downloads do I pick?
>
>
>
> In my particular situation, I’m trying to develop a Java version of an MFC
> app I built for my model railroad. As a hobbyist, that is – no commercial
> product is in prospect. My current self-assigned task is to port the app to
> Linux in the hope that I’ll find more robust WiFi support than Win10 has.
> I was hopping along as a happy little bunny with NetBeans 8.4 and some
> version or another of the JDK that included JavaFX. I was misled by the
> incomplete instructions for installing JNA to omit downloading jna.jar.
> Someone later corrected my mistake on the stackoverflow forum, but not
> before I had installed JDK 13, a current release of OpenJFX, and NetBeans
> 11.1. I ended up in Version Hell, which is where you go when you have
> mismatched versions of your tools. I don’t even know what the path back
> might be.
>
>
>
> My point here is that Java is supposed to be a platform independent
> language. To encourage its use, though, those of you who are responsible
> for its development and evangelism need to do a better job of bundling
> self-consistent versions of the tools and/or providing a tool manifest that
> someone like me can easily find and follow in order to download the tools
> separately. NetBeans would be a logical place to test for AND CORRECT
> version incompatibilities. I don’t have the patience to help in that
> effort, so it looks like I’ll have to abandon Java and craft a Linux-only
> solution in C++.
>
>
>
> --
>
> Walter C. Oney, Jr., Esq.
> 267 Pearl Hill Rd., Fitchburg, MA 01420
> Tel.: 978-343-3390
> http://www.oneylaw.com
>
>
>

Re: Hopefully close to the finish line with Java 11 & FX

[Geertjan Wielenga]

On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 1:05 AM Scott Palmer  wrote:

> This is a good first step. I think some rough edges remain though.
>
> For example, if you go to the project properties ->Build->Compile and flip
> the JDK between Java from 8 to 11+, I’m guessing everything breaks. Can we
> do anything helpful in that situation?
>

Yes: https://github.com/openjfx/javafx-maven-plugin/pull/44

Are you going to comment in the above to add your voice to it?

Here is the related issue for NetBeans:

https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS-3175

And the pull request:

https://github.com/apache/netbeans/pull/1535

Time to move from these lengthy e-mail discussions, I think we all agree
what the problem is, to moving towards a solution, via pull requests and
issues, i.e., the above, which are all ready for you to comment on and try
out, today.

Gj





>
> JavaFX 13 requires Java 11. What version of JavaFX is used by default when
> you pick a JDK 11 JavaFX project? I think it makes sense to default to the
> latest version that runs on Java 11., but rather than having two different
> project types for JavaFX, the new project wizard should have choices for
> JDK version (when more than one JDK is configured) and a selection for
> JavaFX version where the available options depend on the selected JDK
> version.
>
>
> Scott
>
> On Sep 27, 2019, at 11:09 AM, Geertjan Wielenga 
> wrote:
>
> 
> Also, please comment your support for this PR, which updates the Maven
> plugin for OpenJFX to support both JDK 8 and beyond:
>
> https://github.com/openjfx/javafx-maven-plugin/pull/44
>
> Gj
>
> On Fri, Sep 27, 2019 at 3:30 PM Geertjan Wielenga 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 27, 2019 at 3:27 PM Chuck Davis  wrote:
>>
>>> I think that is a fabulous idea I've been advocating for since JDK11 was
>>> released.  What is on the "create a new project" menu needs to create a
>>> project that will build and run in the IDE.
>>>
>>
>> There is a very simple way to advocate anything at all with Maven and
>> NetBeans, just tweak this file whenever you have an improvement, new
>> archetypes, new versions, and provide a pull request. Just this file is all
>> you need, print it out and stick it on your ceiling so you see it whenever
>> you wake up in the morning:
>>
>>
>> https://github.com/apache/netbeans/blob/master/java/maven/src/org/netbeans/modules/maven/newproject/MavenWizardIterator.java
>>
>> Gj
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Sep 27, 2019 at 7:24 AM Geertjan Wielenga 
>>> wrote:
>>>

 On Fri, Sep 27, 2019 at 3:21 PM Chuck Davis  wrote:

> I don't know what archetype should be "registered".  I just know what
> we've got doesn't work as expected by users.
>

 Great. So let's fix it. The idea would be to remove the "JavaFX
 Application" that is currently there and causing you so much headache.
 Instead of that, we'll have the two samples from Gluon there that are
 hidden right now in the Samples category.

 What do you think?

Re: A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of platform independence

[Geertjan Wielenga]

On Sat, 28 Sep 2019 at 12:58, Walter Oney  wrote:

> As a very experienced developer who is new to the world of Java, JavaFX,
> and NetBeans I have to share a lament about the current state of the tools.
>
>
>
> It should be possible for an untutored user to obtain a working
> development environment with trivial ease. It is not. Instead, one appears
> to have to navigate a maze of version and vendor incompatibilities with no
> certainty of success. Do I get my JDK from Oracle or someone else? Ditto
> JAVAFX and NetBeans. And which of the dozens of downloads do I pick?
>
>
>
> In my particular situation, I’m trying to develop a Java version of an MFC
> app I built for my model railroad. As a hobbyist, that is – no commercial
> product is in prospect. My current self-assigned task is to port the app to
> Linux in the hope that I’ll find more robust WiFi support than Win10 has.
> I was hopping along as a happy little bunny with NetBeans 8.4 and some
> version or another of the JDK that included JavaFX. I was misled by the
> incomplete instructions for installing JNA to omit downloading jna.jar.
> Someone later corrected my mistake on the stackoverflow forum, but not
> before I had installed JDK 13, a current release of OpenJFX, and NetBeans
> 11.1. I ended up in Version Hell, which is where you go when you have
> mismatched versions of your tools. I don’t even know what the path back
> might be.
>
>
>
> My point here is that Java is supposed to be a platform independent
> language. To encourage its use, though, those of you who are responsible
> for its development and evangelism need to do a better job of bundling
> self-consistent versions of the tools and/or providing a tool manifest that
> someone like me can easily find and follow in order to download the tools
> separately. NetBeans would be a logical place to test for AND CORRECT
> version incompatibilities. I don’t have the patience
>

Patience is what you’ll need regardless of the technology stack you choose.

In Apache NetBeans 11.1, what happens when you run the two OpenJFX samples
in the New Project dialog’s Samples/JavaFX category?

Gj




to help in that effort, so it looks like I’ll have to abandon Java and
> craft a Linux-only solution in C++.
>
>
>
> --
>
> Walter C. Oney, Jr., Esq.
> 267 Pearl Hill Rd., Fitchburg, MA 01420
> 
> Tel.: 978-343-3390
> http://www.oneylaw.com
>
>
>

A Bad Thing has happened to the promise of platform independence

[Walter Oney]

As a very experienced developer who is new to the world of Java, JavaFX, and
NetBeans I have to share a lament about the current state of the tools.
 
It should be possible for an untutored user to obtain a working development
environment with trivial ease. It is not. Instead, one appears to have to
navigate a maze of version and vendor incompatibilities with no certainty of
success. Do I get my JDK from Oracle or someone else? Ditto JAVAFX and
NetBeans. And which of the dozens of downloads do I pick?
 
In my particular situation, I'm trying to develop a Java version of an MFC
app I built for my model railroad. As a hobbyist, that is - no commercial
product is in prospect. My current self-assigned task is to port the app to
Linux in the hope that I'll find more robust WiFi support than Win10 has. I
was hopping along as a happy little bunny with NetBeans 8.4 and some version
or another of the JDK that included JavaFX. I was misled by the incomplete
instructions for installing JNA to omit downloading jna.jar. Someone later
corrected my mistake on the stackoverflow forum, but not before I had
installed JDK 13, a current release of OpenJFX, and NetBeans 11.1. I ended
up in Version Hell, which is where you go when you have mismatched versions
of your tools. I don't even know what the path back might be.
 
My point here is that Java is supposed to be a platform independent
language. To encourage its use, though, those of you who are responsible for
its development and evangelism need to do a better job of bundling
self-consistent versions of the tools and/or providing a tool manifest that
someone like me can easily find and follow in order to download the tools
separately. NetBeans would be a logical place to test for AND CORRECT
version incompatibilities. I don't have the patience to help in that effort,
so it looks like I'll have to abandon Java and craft a Linux-only solution
in C++.
 
--
Walter C. Oney, Jr., Esq.
267 Pearl Hill Rd., Fitchburg, MA 01420
Tel.: 978-343-3390
  http://www.oneylaw.com
 

Re: Question on Netbeans 11 and C++

[Peter Kovacs]

This kind of picking winners has no place in the ASF. 
Don't get me wrong I would like to see a better integration within windows. 
OpenOffice build environment is very awkward in windows. But please Fokus on 
the integration and not on history you seem at least not to care about, or you 
do not know. 
Cygwin has earned its respect by providing a tool chain and Unix tools to 
windows. this made it possible to deliver software for Windows, Linux, and Mac 
OS.
Something a lot of professional windows based software fails to provide. The 
open source community builds wine to counter this. Which again is an awesome 
effort mostly not understood. 

Please show some respect. Degrade efforts of others is not what makes open 
source community work. 


Am 28. September 2019 03:32:41 MESZ schrieb Scott Palmer :
>The other option is MinGW, both it and Cygwin are *NEVER* used by
>professional developers on Windows.
>
>They don’t work with the Windows SDK but instead attempt to supply
>their own version of Windows header files.
>Both options rely on awkward hacks to make Windows appear to have some
>more unix-like  APIs. As a result you often end up with writing code
>that is very much not the way you would typically do things on 
>Windows.  This results in half-assed ports of native bits that never
>quite align with what Windows users expect.
>Those tools may be suitable for students to experiment with, but they
>just don’t cut it for writing proper native code for Windows.
>
>Proper C/C++ support on Windows means using a native Windows toolset. 
>Visual C++, or perhaps Intel’s compiler.  Or at least something that
>can compile and  link with actual binaries and headers from the
>official Windows SDK.
>
>Gradle’s cpp-library plugin properly uses Windows tools on Windows
>instead of trying to make Windows look like unix and only working with
>an awkward compatibility layer.
>
>Sorry… rant over.
>
>Scott
>
>> On Sep 27, 2019, at 1:56 PM, Alonso Del Arte
> wrote:
>> 
>> Scott wrote:
>> 
>> > Existing NetBeans C/C++ support on Windows is not very practical.
>Bordering on almost unusable actually.  (It requires use of a toolset
>that is virtually never used on Windows for native development, is
>incompatible with Windows SDKs, and difficult to maintain and
>configure.) 
>> 
>> For what it's worth, I've had no problem with simple C++ console
>applications in NetBeans 8.2 under Windows 8.2 (neither of those are
>going to get upgraded). I went with Cygwin64, I remember there was
>another option but I don't remember why I rejected it. I've found Java
>AWT and Swing to be quite adequate for when I need a GUI.
>> 
>> I have yet to try to do anything with C++ on my Mac, on which I now
>have both NetBeans 8.2 and 11.1. Worst case scenario if I ever need to
>work on C++ on my Mac, I can probably use GCC on the command line if
>XCode won't cut it.
>> 
>> Al
>> 
>> On Fri, Sep 27, 2019 at 9:51 AM Scott Palmer > wrote:
>> Would be great to see C/C++ support via Gradle’s 'cpp-library’
>plugin.  A smooth Java + JNI   project setup would be welcome along
>with it.
>> 
>> Existing NetBeans C/C++ support on Windows is not very practical.
>Bordering on almost unusable actually.  (It requires use of a toolset
>that is virtually never used on Windows for native development, is
>incompatible with Windows SDKs, and difficult to maintain and
>configure.)
>> 
>>> On Sep 27, 2019, at 4:25 AM, Geertjan Wielenga > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Yes, that is called the Apache Software Foundation.
>>> 
>>> Gj
>>> 
>>> On Fri, 27 Sep 2019 at 09:24, Ulf Zibis > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Am 26.09.19 um 23:02 schrieb Peter Kovacs:
>>> > I do not understand the question. Can you elaborate?
>>> 
>>> My understanding of "donation" was, that there is a kind of
>crowdfunding
>>> to support the C/C++ plugin.
>>> 
>>> -Ulf
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Alonso del Arte
>> Author at SmashWords.com
>
>> Musician at ReverbNation.com
>