Re: [DISCUSS][PROPOSAL] "Dark Mode" Color Palette(s) for "Extras>Settings>OpenOffice>Appearance", declutter Menu
Hi Joana, In General volunteers who develop Apache OpenOffice are discussing on d...@openoffice.apache.org The Software is developed by pro bono volunteers. This is open to you if you want to drive change. The project has concluded not to change GUI order by argumentation of pure Intuition or logic. The reason is that we did not see the proposed, benefits on community level. It is a generic issue that ease depends heavily on your individual training. We are open to solutions that target all users. OpenOffice "Dark Theme" fails on all platforms due to lack of icons and other topics. We can use help. All the best Peter Am 05.12.22 um 06:57 schrieb Joana Ottenbacher: Disclaimer: I am new here, just subscribed. Please be kind if this ended up in the wrong place. Hi. I have a mixture of a discussion but also a proposal I would like to make. I ended up here after doing a fair share of search engine digging, not finding a good solution for the initial problem. Apparently, about 12 years ago, there started to be demand for what I'm going to discuss, according to old Open Office forum posts I found in the process. Problem part A: As far as I can understand the software, there is not an easy structure to user-friendly switch color themes in Open Office Writer (I haven't looked at other programs, but it could be true for them as well). Yes, there is one solution to switch colors. You go... What was it? Edit, Settings? No, maybe View... Extras... Appearance? No, not either. The correct way is Extras>Settings>OpenOffice>Appearance (as an example, I'm myself still confused about whether that now applies to all programs under the Open Office wing, or just Writer??). You see the first problem? I as a user/dig my way through the whole interface/, potentially even missing the settings for program appearance. This is not only very difficult to find, it leads to *frustration*. What I've been experiencing through the years of usage is the same problem over and over again. We do have functions, but the amount of clicks required to find them, is inefficient and brain-wrecking. An analogy: Some updates ago, the 3D Software Blender moved their "User Preferences" window from "Files" to "Edit". Why? It's more logical, it's convenient and easy to find by one click, containing everything you need in one single window with a couple of tabs. Blender also lets you choose your "Theme" on first startup and later in the preferences and add new themes as you please. Which leads me to problem part B: There are people who do have issues with bright light screens. Websites these days update to "Dark Mode". I could imagine following scenario: A person who needs accessibility aids like a customized dark theme, would they even manage to find the according settings to change the program appearance to their needs? Would a person who is already puzzled by where to even save their file or how to print find such an option? Maybe, if it were easier to find, AND what I think of an improvement: If there were well-designed pre-installed examplary color themes one could just switch by clicking a button. There is a list of color schemes (for me, there is only the OpenOffice light theme in the list!), but again, until a user finds this option, they might have given up on it already. Users are not designers. They might struggle with color values, how light or dark the font color should be displayed and also, they might worry that changing these colors might make their printer switch colors as well. (I saw somebody in a forum stating you should revert appearance before printing, they were likely scared of exactly that!). The concept of a "Dark Theme" or "Dark Mode" is not so easy for them to understand when they get a long, long list of colors they are to change themselves. So what to do to improve? Instead, let the user have a standard one they could switch by clicking one button a light theme button and a dark theme button with an icon to determine what's going on. Voilà. We have an accessible, easy system to make these changes. Just like clicking a different theme in a PowerPoint presentation. And if there is none the user likes, they can add a new one and have a new button or a list for their themes, as well, selecting each color individually just like you can do right now in version 4.1.7. Now there's one extra point to the mix. We have users who are using OpenOffice under Linux. I read that for some reason there is a Dark Mode, but I don't understand the details at all. I cannot speak for anybody using that OS, so this here is all from a Windows perspective. I though do believe that a standardized option to do this throughout each program *regardless* of OS or the like, would make things so much easier for everybody. In my own POV there are enough reasons to overhaul this part of the system. Possibly, there are menu parts that could be put in one large window containing everything you might need. The problem when you
Re: [DISCUSS][PROPOSAL] "Dark Mode" Color Palette(s) for "Extras>Settings>OpenOffice>Appearance", declutter Menu
Joana Ottenbacher, I got your email, I imagine that everyone on this list got it also. Your idea sounds great to me. If I had a choice everything would be dark mode and there wouldn't be any conflicts or things that don't show. I will tell you that at least for FireFox that doesn't seem possible and I end up turning off my user styles and dark script a lot. That however, is just a click or two. I found a .pdf reader that does colored backgrounds. They say it is impossible to change the font color of a .pdf. Also, some documents override Okular's colors with white. Okular is part of KDE but they made it as a standalone and it works on Windows. New Edge browser has a 'Dark Mode' but it doesn't color Gmail, back to black-on-white again. It would be nice if OO could do documents and spreadsheets in white on black. Thanks for the idea! Linda On Mon, Dec 5, 2022 at 12:57 AM Joana Ottenbacher wrote: > Disclaimer: I am new here, just subscribed. Please be kind if this ended > up in the wrong place. > > Hi. > I have a mixture of a discussion but also a proposal I would like to > make. I ended up here after doing a fair share of search engine digging, > not finding a good solution for the initial problem. Apparently, about > 12 years ago, there started to be demand for what I'm going to discuss, > according to old Open Office forum posts I found in the process. > > Problem part A: > As far as I can understand the software, there is not an easy structure > to user-friendly switch color themes in Open Office Writer (I haven't > looked at other programs, but it could be true for them as well). > Yes, there is one solution to switch colors. > You go... What was it? Edit, Settings? No, maybe View... Extras... > Appearance? No, not either. The correct way is > Extras>Settings>OpenOffice>Appearance (as an example, I'm myself still > confused about whether that now applies to all programs under the Open > Office wing, or just Writer??). > You see the first problem? > I as a user/dig my way through the whole interface/, potentially even > missing the settings for program appearance. This is not only very > difficult to find, it leads to *frustration*. > What I've been experiencing through the years of usage is the same > problem over and over again. We do have functions, but the amount of > clicks required to find them, is inefficient and brain-wrecking. > An analogy: Some updates ago, the 3D Software Blender moved their "User > Preferences" window from "Files" to "Edit". Why? It's more logical, it's > convenient and easy to find by one click, containing everything you need > in one single window with a couple of tabs. Blender also lets you choose > your "Theme" on first startup and later in the preferences and add new > themes as you please. > > Which leads me to problem part B: > There are people who do have issues with bright light screens. Websites > these days update to "Dark Mode". > I could imagine following scenario: A person who needs accessibility > aids like a customized dark theme, would they even manage to find the > according settings to change the program appearance to their needs? > Would a person who is already puzzled by where to even save their file > or how to print find such an option? > Maybe, if it were easier to find, AND what I think of an improvement: If > there were well-designed pre-installed examplary color themes one could > just switch by clicking a button. There is a list of color schemes (for > me, there is only the OpenOffice light theme in the list!), but again, > until a user finds this option, they might have given up on it already. > Users are not designers. They might struggle with color values, how > light or dark the font color should be displayed and also, they might > worry that changing these colors might make their printer switch colors > as well. (I saw somebody in a forum stating you should revert appearance > before printing, they were likely scared of exactly that!). The concept > of a "Dark Theme" or "Dark Mode" is not so easy for them to understand > when they get a long, long list of colors they are to change themselves. > So what to do to improve? Instead, let the user have a standard one they > could switch by clicking one button a light theme button and a dark > theme button with an icon to determine what's going on. > Voilà. We have an accessible, easy system to make these changes. Just > like clicking a different theme in a PowerPoint presentation. And if > there is none the user likes, they can add a new one and have a new > button or a list for their themes, as well, selecting each color > individually just like you can do right now in version 4.1.7. > > Now there's one extra point to the mix. We have users who are using > OpenOffice under Linux. I read that for some reason there is a Dark > Mode, but I don't understand the details at all. I cannot speak for > anybody using that OS, so this here is all from a Windows perspective. I > though do
[DISCUSS][PROPOSAL] "Dark Mode" Color Palette(s) for "Extras>Settings>OpenOffice>Appearance", declutter Menu
Disclaimer: I am new here, just subscribed. Please be kind if this ended up in the wrong place. Hi. I have a mixture of a discussion but also a proposal I would like to make. I ended up here after doing a fair share of search engine digging, not finding a good solution for the initial problem. Apparently, about 12 years ago, there started to be demand for what I'm going to discuss, according to old Open Office forum posts I found in the process. Problem part A: As far as I can understand the software, there is not an easy structure to user-friendly switch color themes in Open Office Writer (I haven't looked at other programs, but it could be true for them as well). Yes, there is one solution to switch colors. You go... What was it? Edit, Settings? No, maybe View... Extras... Appearance? No, not either. The correct way is Extras>Settings>OpenOffice>Appearance (as an example, I'm myself still confused about whether that now applies to all programs under the Open Office wing, or just Writer??). You see the first problem? I as a user/dig my way through the whole interface/, potentially even missing the settings for program appearance. This is not only very difficult to find, it leads to *frustration*. What I've been experiencing through the years of usage is the same problem over and over again. We do have functions, but the amount of clicks required to find them, is inefficient and brain-wrecking. An analogy: Some updates ago, the 3D Software Blender moved their "User Preferences" window from "Files" to "Edit". Why? It's more logical, it's convenient and easy to find by one click, containing everything you need in one single window with a couple of tabs. Blender also lets you choose your "Theme" on first startup and later in the preferences and add new themes as you please. Which leads me to problem part B: There are people who do have issues with bright light screens. Websites these days update to "Dark Mode". I could imagine following scenario: A person who needs accessibility aids like a customized dark theme, would they even manage to find the according settings to change the program appearance to their needs? Would a person who is already puzzled by where to even save their file or how to print find such an option? Maybe, if it were easier to find, AND what I think of an improvement: If there were well-designed pre-installed examplary color themes one could just switch by clicking a button. There is a list of color schemes (for me, there is only the OpenOffice light theme in the list!), but again, until a user finds this option, they might have given up on it already. Users are not designers. They might struggle with color values, how light or dark the font color should be displayed and also, they might worry that changing these colors might make their printer switch colors as well. (I saw somebody in a forum stating you should revert appearance before printing, they were likely scared of exactly that!). The concept of a "Dark Theme" or "Dark Mode" is not so easy for them to understand when they get a long, long list of colors they are to change themselves. So what to do to improve? Instead, let the user have a standard one they could switch by clicking one button a light theme button and a dark theme button with an icon to determine what's going on. Voilà. We have an accessible, easy system to make these changes. Just like clicking a different theme in a PowerPoint presentation. And if there is none the user likes, they can add a new one and have a new button or a list for their themes, as well, selecting each color individually just like you can do right now in version 4.1.7. Now there's one extra point to the mix. We have users who are using OpenOffice under Linux. I read that for some reason there is a Dark Mode, but I don't understand the details at all. I cannot speak for anybody using that OS, so this here is all from a Windows perspective. I though do believe that a standardized option to do this throughout each program *regardless* of OS or the like, would make things so much easier for everybody. In my own POV there are enough reasons to overhaul this part of the system. Possibly, there are menu parts that could be put in one large window containing everything you might need. The problem when you look at your own project for too long is that you cannot see what your users see anymore. You get "designer-blind" as some call that phenomenon. You forget about those who don't have the structure in mind that you had, building this. They just look at it and try to figure out how to solve their problem. I grew up as one of those people, so I know the struggle firsthand. And according to my research, people tried achieving this before. We have 2022 now. I believe this is possible. Still, I would love to hear other voices out there. Any concerns? Are there technical reasons for this specific situation we find ourselves in? I might not know. Do enlighten me. Maybe just nobody actually voiced it