Re: [Users] Setup Host Network dialog - actions availability [ux][BZ#984737]
- Original Message - From: Eldan Hildesheim ehild...@redhat.com Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2013 9:41:55 AM Hi, The SPACE to the right of the text was made originally only for the purpose network icon (crown, vm, monitor...) - at one glance the user should understand the purpose of the network. No other icon (edit) should interfere the understanding of this purpose. 1. Putting a gear instead of a pencil is ok with me - but It shouldn't be static - it should be shown only in rollover: It is totally normal to rollover an item and get more options about it and not having an edit icon next to it. (We don't have an icon inside each line in the grid as well). again - reminding the original subject of my thread / original pain-point mentioned in the description of BZ#984737: the user had a hard time finding the edit icon in the first place. Replacing a tiny pencil icon with a tiny gear icon (but still displaying it only upon hover) kind-of misses the entire point IMO. a static indication will be helpful in this case. [users: it this is NOT a real pain point - please let us know] Moreover, the fact that the area on the right-hand side of the network-rectangle was made originally only for read-only purpose icons is OK, but it doesn't mean that we cannot change that. Alissa made a point about removing the rectangles around the purpose icons (see attached) with which I agree - it will make them look less like buttons and more like read-only icons. if we will graphically distinguish the gear icon (e.g. separator, border, etc.) so that it wouldn't be mistakenly considered as another purpose icon, but as a button, we wouldn't a problem. 2. The implementation as it is now is a bit bizarre, you rollover the box and you get the EDIT TOOL (pencil) and the TOOLTIP. Sketch - Option 1 - merges both of the technics together. was there a sketch that you intended to attach? or did you refer to one of the attachments in one of the previous e-mails in the thread? But in case we don't really need a tool tip as Lior suggests, we can eliminated the tooltip and go with option 2 (wheel + arrow in rollover) I assume that you mean that gear + arrow will appear upon rollover, not that gear + arrow will always be displayed and the actual available actions (edit, remove) will appear upon hover (which is what I suggested). Which means that in your suggestion - actual available actions (edit, remove) will appear only upon mouse-click (which means that in order to edit a network, two clicks will be required, instead of one today / my suggestion)? Eldan - Original Message - From: Einav Cohen eco...@redhat.com To: users users@ovirt.org Cc: Lior Vernia lver...@redhat.com, info i...@eldanet.com, Eldan Hildesheim ehild...@redhat.com, j...@cs.yorku.ca, Karli Sjöberg karli.sjob...@slu.se, René Koch (ovido) r.k...@ovido.at, Malini Rao m...@redhat.com Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 9:23:31 PM Subject: Re: [Users] Setup Host Network dialog - actions availability [ux][BZ#984737] [top posting] Many thanks, everyone, for your valuable input - it is highly appreciated! I would like to do an interim summary of our conclusions / open issues so far, towards converging to a concrete solution. your feedback will be highly appreciated. (1) [open issue] actions availability indication: (a) always visible (e.g. as a gear icon, see attached HostSetupNetworks-DropDownMenu.png) (b) visible only upon hover (see attached HostSetupNetworks-HoverPopUp.png) (c) combination (see attached SetupHostNetworks-StaticAndHoverCombination.png) [ignore the exact design details for now (e.g. hover solution contains / doesn't contain some network details, gear icon drop-down items panel opens upon hover / upon click, etc.] I think we all agree that (c) is a bad redundancy; (a) may somewhat clutter the existing view, however it best resolves the original pain point mentioned in the BZ/this thread, which is not fully resolved in solution (b). according to the input provided in this thread, it seems that most of the people are in favor of adding the gear icon, which implies that they support (a) [I could be wrong, please correct me if I am]. (2) [open issue] displaying a details-pop-up upon hover on a logical network is needed / not needed. we received here a couple of opinions that it isn't needed, I would like to verify that everyone are comfortable with that; also need to keep in mind that we currently have a details pop-up when hovering on a NIC, and I assume that we have one for hovering on a Bond - are everyone comfortable with getting rid of all of these? (3) [open issue] actions availability upon click vs. upon hover. [note: this is not about the indication mentioned in (1) (e.g. gear icon), but about actually showing the available actions (edit, remove, etc.). revealing the available actions upon click would mean that two clicks
Re: [Users] Setup Host Network dialog - actions availability [ux][BZ#984737]
- Original Message - From: Einav Cohen eco...@redhat.com To: Eldan Hildesheim ehild...@redhat.com Cc: info i...@eldanet.com, users users@ovirt.org, j...@cs.yorku.ca, Malini Rao m...@redhat.com, Lior Vernia lver...@redhat.com, Karli Sjöberg karli.sjob...@slu.se, René Koch (ovido) r.k...@ovido.at Sent: Monday, August 26, 2013 9:48:31 AM Subject: Re: [Users] Setup Host Network dialog - actions availability [ux][BZ#984737] - Original Message - From: Eldan Hildesheim ehild...@redhat.com Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2013 9:41:55 AM Hi, The SPACE to the right of the text was made originally only for the purpose network icon (crown, vm, monitor...) - at one glance the user should understand the purpose of the network. No other icon (edit) should interfere the understanding of this purpose. 1. Putting a gear instead of a pencil is ok with me - but It shouldn't be static - it should be shown only in rollover: It is totally normal to rollover an item and get more options about it and not having an edit icon next to it. (We don't have an icon inside each line in the grid as well). again - reminding the original subject of my thread / original pain-point mentioned in the description of BZ#984737: the user had a hard time finding the edit icon in the first place. Replacing a tiny pencil icon with a tiny gear icon (but still displaying it only upon hover) kind-of misses the entire point IMO. a static indication will be helpful in this case. [users: it this is NOT a real pain point - please let us know] Moreover, the fact that the area on the right-hand side of the network-rectangle was made originally only for read-only purpose icons is OK, but it doesn't mean that we cannot change that. Alissa made a point about removing the rectangles around the purpose icons (see attached) with which I agree - it will make them look less like buttons and more like read-only icons. if we will graphically distinguish the gear icon (e.g. separator, border, etc.) so that it wouldn't be mistakenly considered as another purpose icon, but as a button, we wouldn't a problem. MR: I agree that removing the boxes around the read only informational labels will help in distinguishing an action from a label and the separator is also a great idea. I understand Eldan's thinking in terms of revealing the Actions on rollover but I think given that this is a dense graphic screen with lots of visual elements, users may be finding it hard to detect a tiny addition in the form of a icon. For this reason, I suggested this to be static. 2. The implementation as it is now is a bit bizarre, you rollover the box and you get the EDIT TOOL (pencil) and the TOOLTIP. Sketch - Option 1 - merges both of the technics together. was there a sketch that you intended to attach? or did you refer to one of the attachments in one of the previous e-mails in the thread? But in case we don't really need a tool tip as Lior suggests, we can eliminated the tooltip and go with option 2 (wheel + arrow in rollover) I assume that you mean that gear + arrow will appear upon rollover, not that gear + arrow will always be displayed and the actual available actions (edit, remove) will appear upon hover (which is what I suggested). Which means that in your suggestion - actual available actions (edit, remove) will appear only upon mouse-click (which means that in order to edit a network, two clicks will be required, instead of one today / my suggestion)? Eldan - Original Message - From: Einav Cohen eco...@redhat.com To: users users@ovirt.org Cc: Lior Vernia lver...@redhat.com, info i...@eldanet.com, Eldan Hildesheim ehild...@redhat.com, j...@cs.yorku.ca, Karli Sjöberg karli.sjob...@slu.se, René Koch (ovido) r.k...@ovido.at, Malini Rao m...@redhat.com Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 9:23:31 PM Subject: Re: [Users] Setup Host Network dialog - actions availability [ux][BZ#984737] [top posting] Many thanks, everyone, for your valuable input - it is highly appreciated! I would like to do an interim summary of our conclusions / open issues so far, towards converging to a concrete solution. your feedback will be highly appreciated. (1) [open issue] actions availability indication: (a) always visible (e.g. as a gear icon, see attached HostSetupNetworks-DropDownMenu.png) (b) visible only upon hover (see attached HostSetupNetworks-HoverPopUp.png) (c) combination (see attached SetupHostNetworks-StaticAndHoverCombination.png) [ignore the exact design details for now (e.g. hover solution contains / doesn't contain some network details, gear icon drop-down items panel opens upon hover / upon click, etc.] I think we all agree that (c) is a bad redundancy; (a) may somewhat clutter the existing view, however it best resolves the original pain point mentioned in the BZ
Re: [Users] Setup Host Network dialog - actions availability [ux][BZ#984737]
Hi Einav,
I think that the dropdown menu that is always visible (option 1.a) is better -
it's more clear.
Also, not related to the raised issue - the 2 icons of 'usage' ('management'
and 'VM') also resemble buttons because of their black frame , especially since
they are located close to the gear icon (which opens the edit/remove). I
suggest to remove the black frame and leave just the icons to reduce the
confusion.
- Original Message -
From: Einav Cohen eco...@redhat.com
To: users users@ovirt.org
Cc: info i...@eldanet.com, Eldan Hildesheim ehild...@redhat.com,
j...@cs.yorku.ca
Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 9:23:31 PM
Subject: Re: [Users] Setup Host Network dialog - actions availability
[ux][BZ#984737]
[top posting]
Many thanks, everyone, for your valuable input - it is highly appreciated!
I would like to do an interim summary of our conclusions / open issues so
far, towards converging to a concrete solution.
your feedback will be highly appreciated.
(1) [open issue] actions availability indication:
(a) always visible (e.g. as a gear icon, see attached
HostSetupNetworks-DropDownMenu.png)
(b) visible only upon hover (see attached HostSetupNetworks-HoverPopUp.png)
(c) combination (see attached
SetupHostNetworks-StaticAndHoverCombination.png)
[ignore the exact design details for now (e.g. hover solution contains /
doesn't
contain some network details, gear icon drop-down items panel opens upon
hover /
upon click, etc.]
I think we all agree that (c) is a bad redundancy;
(a) may somewhat clutter the existing view, however it best resolves the
original pain point mentioned in the BZ/this thread, which is not fully
resolved in solution (b).
according to the input provided in this thread, it seems that most of the
people are in favor of adding the gear icon, which implies that they support
(a) [I could be wrong, please correct me if I am].
(2) [open issue] displaying a details-pop-up upon hover on a logical network
is needed / not needed.
we received here a couple of opinions that it isn't needed, I would like
to verify that everyone are comfortable with that; also need to keep in
mind that we currently have a details pop-up when hovering on a NIC, and I
assume that we have one for hovering on a Bond - are everyone comfortable
with getting rid of all of these?
(3) [open issue] actions availability upon click vs. upon hover.
[note: this is not about the indication mentioned in (1) (e.g. gear icon),
but about actually showing the available actions (edit, remove, etc.).
revealing the available actions upon click would mean that two clicks will
be needed in order to edit a logical network, for example, vs. one click
that will be needed in the current state / hover solution.
moreover, if everyone are comfortable with removing the details-pop-up upon
hover (see (2)), then there would be no hover conflicts in that sense.
[even if we decide to keep the details-pop-up - we can include the actions
in it, just like demonstrated in HostSetupNetworks-HoverPopUp.png, so there
will be only one consistent behavior upon hovering on the logical network
area]
my suggestion:
add a static action indication (e.g. gear icon), and upon hovering on it
(or hovering on the logical network rectangle in general), the actions-pop
-up (which may or may not contain also some network details - again, see (2))
will appear [see attached HostSetupNetworks-EinavSuggestion.png]
* NOTE: Although we are discussing mainly logical networks, the solution (or
the relevant parts of it) should be applied also to Bonds and NICs within
the same dialog.
+1s / -1s / comments / additional suggestions are welcome.
Thanks,
Einav
- Original Message -
From: Karli Sjöberg karli.sjob...@slu.se
To: Lior Vernia lver...@redhat.com
Cc: Einav Cohen eco...@redhat.com, info i...@eldanet.com, Eldan
Hildesheim ehild...@redhat.com,
j...@cs.yorku.ca, users users@ovirt.org
Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 8:46:52 AM
Subject: Re: [Users] Setup Host Network dialog - actions availability
[ux][BZ#984737]
fre 2013-08-23 klockan 15:42 +0300 skrev Lior Vernia:
On 23/08/13 08:51, Karli Sjöberg wrote:
tor 2013-08-22 klockan 20:43 +0300 skrev Lior Vernia:
On 22/08/13 20:04, Einav Cohen wrote:
Hi,
This is about attempting to address the difficulty of finding the
edit-action in
the Setup Host Network dialog, as documented in Bug 984737 -
usability:
webadmin
difficulty in assigning client ip, no gateway possible in bugzilla.
We have a suggestion from Eldan (see attached
HostSetupNetworks-HoverPopUp.png)
which was described in the BZ (comment #3) and seemed acceptable by
the
reporter
(comment #4), however IIUC - one of the main pain points described in
the BZ was
the fact that the user could not find the option to Edit the
connection
properties
since he
Re: [Users] Setup Host Network dialog - actions availability [ux][BZ#984737]
On Thu, 2013-08-22 at 13:04 -0400, Einav Cohen wrote: Hi, This is about attempting to address the difficulty of finding the edit-action in the Setup Host Network dialog, as documented in Bug 984737 - usability: webadmin difficulty in assigning client ip, no gateway possible in bugzilla. We have a suggestion from Eldan (see attached HostSetupNetworks-HoverPopUp.png) which was described in the BZ (comment #3) and seemed acceptable by the reporter (comment #4), however IIUC - one of the main pain points described in the BZ was the fact that the user could not find the option to Edit the connection properties since he was looking in the wrong place, and needed to hover on the correct place, in order to find that option. So although the idea is somewhat helpful, my concern is that this solution is not enough (comment #5). Another proposal from Malini (comment #6) is to add an actions drop-down menu in the form of a small gear icon-button - see attached HostSetupNetworks-DropDownMenu.png. This proposal addresses my concern, however I have a question about another concern with this solution: would the actions-drop-down menu-items panel be revealed appear upon click or upon hover? In my opinion this is the better solution but still not enough. Let me explain why: There are 4 reasons (or did I forgot one?) why I want to change the network configuration: 1. Add new logical networks 2. Remove logical networks 3. Change ip addresses of 1 (or more) logical networks 4. Configure/change bonding options Ad 1 and 2: In the Setup hosts networks dialog the behavior is ok - improvements should be done when creating new logical networks. I think neutron integration will improve this... Ad 3: When changing (or adding) an ip address I first have to verify what's the current ip configuration of this host. If I don't use dns/static hosts entry I can see the current ip address of ovirtmgmt host in hosts tab, but for all other networks or when having hostnames configured I have to go to the Network Interfaces subtab of each host. In this tab I can already see the address I (properly) want to change or the interface where I want to add a new ip address. So why not allowing to edit ip addresses here? I don't mean going back to oVirt 3.0 style but just make existing ip addresses changeable here already by making the existing ip address clickable and open the edit network window. Bondings/logical networks should stay in setup host networks and there should also be a gear icon to edit/remove logical networks like in the DropDownMenu.png screenshot which reveals when clicking on it. Then you have the possibility to change the ip config wherever it's easier for you. I also vote for removing the tooltip on logical networks and instead display the ip address (and maybe MTU) below the logical network name. e.g. ovirtmgmt (VLAN 1) IP: 192.168.0.1 - logical network 1 - logical network 2 As ip addresses will most likely be configured only for ovirtmgmt, display network and storage network this dialog wouldn't get floated with too many information... Ad 4: Add a gear icon in the same way as for 3, but keep the ability to change the configuration only in Setup hosts networks dialog, no need imho in Network Interfaces subtab... Regards, René if it will be upon hover, it might seem weird/be conflicted/be somewhat confusing with the hover functionality that reveals the logical-network details pop-up. if it will be upon click, it means that in order to edit a logical network, two clicks will be required in order to get to the edit dialog, as opposed to one click in the current state and in Eldan's suggestion. maybe having two clicks in order to get to the edit dialog is acceptable, however there may be some solutions for that: one possible solution would be to combine both attached suggestions, i.e. the actions within the hover pop-up, as well as the actions drop-down menu, however it means that there will be some redundancy of the actions availability. another possible solution is to keep only the gear + down-arrow icon (or maybe only the down-arrow icon), without the actual drop-down menu there, just in order to indicate that there are some options available in that area, and have Eldan's pop-up appear when hovering on that icon (or even on the entire logical-network area, as happens today with the current details pop-up) thoughts? Regards, Einav ___ Users mailing list Users@ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users ___ Users mailing list Users@ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Re: [Users] Setup Host Network dialog - actions availability [ux][BZ#984737]
On 23/08/13 08:51, Karli Sjöberg wrote: tor 2013-08-22 klockan 20:43 +0300 skrev Lior Vernia: On 22/08/13 20:04, Einav Cohen wrote: Hi, This is about attempting to address the difficulty of finding the edit-action in the Setup Host Network dialog, as documented in Bug 984737 - usability: webadmin difficulty in assigning client ip, no gateway possible in bugzilla. We have a suggestion from Eldan (see attached HostSetupNetworks-HoverPopUp.png) which was described in the BZ (comment #3) and seemed acceptable by the reporter (comment #4), however IIUC - one of the main pain points described in the BZ was the fact that the user could not find the option to Edit the connection properties since he was looking in the wrong place, and needed to hover on the correct place, in order to find that option. So although the idea is somewhat helpful, my concern is that this solution is not enough (comment #5). Another proposal from Malini (comment #6) is to add an actions drop-down menu in the form of a small gear icon-button - see attached HostSetupNetworks-DropDownMenu.png. This proposal addresses my concern, however I have a question about another concern with this solution: would the actions-drop-down menu-items panel be revealed appear upon click or upon hover? if it will be upon hover, it might seem weird/be conflicted/be somewhat confusing with the hover functionality that reveals the logical-network details pop-up. If this proposal is accepted (see my comments below about both proposals), one solution might be to get rid of the network details tooltip. Most people probably don't use MTU, Just a FYI there Lior; we do:) And when 10GbE becomes available, Jumbo Frames is going to be required to use all that bandwidth. Otherwise you are capped at about half(500MB/s as opposed to 1,2GB/s). And is it at all helpful to see it in the Host Setup Networks context? It is set in the DC context when adding or editing a network, to my understanding it doesn't have much to do with a specific host. I'm guessing the main reason it's there is to give people a shot at guessing why their network appears out-of-sync, when it's caused by the MTU being configured differently on the host, but I don't think that would be easy to figure out anyway. /Karli and the rest is just explaining the network role icons; so maybe not that useful. if it will be upon click, it means that in order to edit a logical network, two clicks will be required in order to get to the edit dialog, as opposed to one click in the current state and in Eldan's suggestion. maybe having two clicks in order to get to the edit dialog is acceptable, however there may be some solutions for that: one possible solution would be to combine both attached suggestions, i.e. the actions within the hover pop-up, as well as the actions drop-down menu, however it means that there will be some redundancy of the actions availability. That sounds bad to me regardless of the other alternatives. another possible solution is to keep only the gear + down-arrow icon (or maybe only the down-arrow icon), without the actual drop-down menu there, just in order to indicate that there are some options available in that area, and have Eldan's pop-up appear when hovering on that icon (or even on the entire logical-network area, as happens today with the current details pop-up) thoughts? I like the gear icon because it's noticeable and easily recognizable. However, keep in mind that bonds should also have the same icon to keep a consistent design. Now imagine a configuration with several bonds on the left-hand-side and quite a few networks on the right-hand-side; I'm no designer, but it could get cluttered with all those gear icons. It MIGHT be preferable to use the other design (tooltip with action bar) and risk the odd person not easily finding it (no disrespect intended, Jason). I have no idea, however, if it's gonna be just the odd person or most people. I'd love to hear others' opinions. Regards, Einav ___ Users mailing list Users@ovirt.org mailto:Users@ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users -- Med Vänliga Hälsningar --- Karli Sjöberg Swedish University of Agricultural Sciences Box 7079 (Visiting Address Kronåsvägen 8) S-750 07 Uppsala, Sweden Phone: +46-(0)18-67 15 66 karli.sjob...@slu.se mailto:karli.sjob...@adm.slu.se ___ Users mailing list Users@ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Re: [Users] Setup Host Network dialog - actions availability [ux][BZ#984737]
fre 2013-08-23 klockan 15:42 +0300 skrev Lior Vernia: On 23/08/13 08:51, Karli Sjöberg wrote: tor 2013-08-22 klockan 20:43 +0300 skrev Lior Vernia: On 22/08/13 20:04, Einav Cohen wrote: Hi, This is about attempting to address the difficulty of finding the edit-action in the Setup Host Network dialog, as documented in Bug 984737 - usability: webadmin difficulty in assigning client ip, no gateway possible in bugzilla. We have a suggestion from Eldan (see attached HostSetupNetworks-HoverPopUp.png) which was described in the BZ (comment #3) and seemed acceptable by the reporter (comment #4), however IIUC - one of the main pain points described in the BZ was the fact that the user could not find the option to Edit the connection properties since he was looking in the wrong place, and needed to hover on the correct place, in order to find that option. So although the idea is somewhat helpful, my concern is that this solution is not enough (comment #5). Another proposal from Malini (comment #6) is to add an actions drop-down menu in the form of a small gear icon-button - see attached HostSetupNetworks-DropDownMenu.png. This proposal addresses my concern, however I have a question about another concern with this solution: would the actions-drop-down menu-items panel be revealed appear upon click or upon hover? if it will be upon hover, it might seem weird/be conflicted/be somewhat confusing with the hover functionality that reveals the logical-network details pop-up. If this proposal is accepted (see my comments below about both proposals), one solution might be to get rid of the network details tooltip. Most people probably don't use MTU, Just a FYI there Lior; we do:) And when 10GbE becomes available, Jumbo Frames is going to be required to use all that bandwidth. Otherwise you are capped at about half(500MB/s as opposed to 1,2GB/s). And is it at all helpful to see it in the Host Setup Networks context? It is set in the DC context when adding or editing a network, to my understanding it doesn't have much to do with a specific host. No I agree, it´s not helpful at all, maybe even destructive. Why allow admins to mess around with different MTU's on different Hosts for the same network. Since MTU is set in the switches, the MTU must be the same for all Hosts on the same network, or one could wreak all kinds of havoc. What I was saying is not to forget that, for admins, MTU is a big deal, and makes a big difference in performance, is all. I'm guessing the main reason it's there is to give people a shot at guessing why their network appears out-of-sync, when it's caused by the MTU being configured differently on the host, but I don't think that would be easy to figure out anyway. /Karli and the rest is just explaining the network role icons; so maybe not that useful. if it will be upon click, it means that in order to edit a logical network, two clicks will be required in order to get to the edit dialog, as opposed to one click in the current state and in Eldan's suggestion. maybe having two clicks in order to get to the edit dialog is acceptable, however there may be some solutions for that: one possible solution would be to combine both attached suggestions, i.e. the actions within the hover pop-up, as well as the actions drop-down menu, however it means that there will be some redundancy of the actions availability. That sounds bad to me regardless of the other alternatives. another possible solution is to keep only the gear + down-arrow icon (or maybe only the down-arrow icon), without the actual drop-down menu there, just in order to indicate that there are some options available in that area, and have Eldan's pop-up appear when hovering on that icon (or even on the entire logical-network area, as happens today with the current details pop-up) thoughts? I like the gear icon because it's noticeable and easily recognizable. However, keep in mind that bonds should also have the same icon to keep a consistent design. Now imagine a configuration with several bonds on the left-hand-side and quite a few networks on the right-hand-side; I'm no designer, but it could get cluttered with all those gear icons. It MIGHT be preferable to use the other design (tooltip with action bar) and risk the odd person not easily finding it (no disrespect intended, Jason). I have no idea, however, if it's gonna be just the odd person or most people. I'd love to hear others' opinions. Regards, Einav ___ Users mailing list Users@ovirt.orgmailto:Users@ovirt.org mailto:Users@ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users -- Med Vänliga Hälsningar --- Karli Sjöberg Swedish University of
Re: [Users] Setup Host Network dialog - actions availability [ux][BZ#984737]
On 23/08/13 15:46, Karli Sjöberg wrote: fre 2013-08-23 klockan 15:42 +0300 skrev Lior Vernia: On 23/08/13 08:51, Karli Sjöberg wrote: tor 2013-08-22 klockan 20:43 +0300 skrev Lior Vernia: On 22/08/13 20:04, Einav Cohen wrote: Hi, This is about attempting to address the difficulty of finding the edit-action in the Setup Host Network dialog, as documented in Bug 984737 - usability: webadmin difficulty in assigning client ip, no gateway possible in bugzilla. We have a suggestion from Eldan (see attached HostSetupNetworks-HoverPopUp.png) which was described in the BZ (comment #3) and seemed acceptable by the reporter (comment #4), however IIUC - one of the main pain points described in the BZ was the fact that the user could not find the option to Edit the connection properties since he was looking in the wrong place, and needed to hover on the correct place, in order to find that option. So although the idea is somewhat helpful, my concern is that this solution is not enough (comment #5). Another proposal from Malini (comment #6) is to add an actions drop-down menu in the form of a small gear icon-button - see attached HostSetupNetworks-DropDownMenu.png. This proposal addresses my concern, however I have a question about another concern with this solution: would the actions-drop-down menu-items panel be revealed appear upon click or upon hover? if it will be upon hover, it might seem weird/be conflicted/be somewhat confusing with the hover functionality that reveals the logical-network details pop-up. If this proposal is accepted (see my comments below about both proposals), one solution might be to get rid of the network details tooltip. Most people probably don't use MTU, Just a FYI there Lior; we do:) And when 10GbE becomes available, Jumbo Frames is going to be required to use all that bandwidth. Otherwise you are capped at about half(500MB/s as opposed to 1,2GB/s). And is it at all helpful to see it in the Host Setup Networks context? It is set in the DC context when adding or editing a network, to my understanding it doesn't have much to do with a specific host. No I agree, it´s not helpful at all, maybe even destructive. Why allow admins to mess around with different MTU's on different Hosts for the same network. Since MTU is set in the switches, the MTU must be the same for all Hosts on the same network, or one could wreak all kinds of havoc. What I was saying is not to forget that, for admins, MTU is a big deal, and makes a big difference in performance, is all. Worry not :) I was only referring to the Host Setup Networks tooltip displayed when hovering over a network, I probably should have phrased it better. I'm guessing the main reason it's there is to give people a shot at guessing why their network appears out-of-sync, when it's caused by the MTU being configured differently on the host, but I don't think that would be easy to figure out anyway. /Karli and the rest is just explaining the network role icons; so maybe not that useful. if it will be upon click, it means that in order to edit a logical network, two clicks will be required in order to get to the edit dialog, as opposed to one click in the current state and in Eldan's suggestion. maybe having two clicks in order to get to the edit dialog is acceptable, however there may be some solutions for that: one possible solution would be to combine both attached suggestions, i.e. the actions within the hover pop-up, as well as the actions drop-down menu, however it means that there will be some redundancy of the actions availability. That sounds bad to me regardless of the other alternatives. another possible solution is to keep only the gear + down-arrow icon (or maybe only the down-arrow icon), without the actual drop-down menu there, just in order to indicate that there are some options available in that area, and have Eldan's pop-up appear when hovering on that icon (or even on the entire logical-network area, as happens today with the current details pop-up) thoughts? I like the gear icon because it's noticeable and easily recognizable. However, keep in mind that bonds should also have the same icon to keep a consistent design. Now imagine a configuration with several bonds on the left-hand-side and quite a few networks on the right-hand-side; I'm no designer, but it could get cluttered with all those gear icons. It MIGHT be preferable to use the other design (tooltip with action bar) and risk the odd person not easily finding it (no disrespect intended, Jason). I have no idea, however, if it's gonna be just the odd person or most people. I'd love to hear others' opinions. Regards, Einav
Re: [Users] Setup Host Network dialog - actions availability [ux][BZ#984737]
[top posting] Hi René, thanks for the feedback. I will soon send an e-mail summarizing all of the feedback regarding the main issue. In your particular feedback, you have mentioned a couple of potential improvements that are not directly related to the main issue. These are: (1) So why not allowing to edit ip addresses here? I don't mean going back to oVirt 3.0 style but just make existing ip addresses changeable here already by making the existing ip address clickable and open the edit network window. [IIUC: 'here' == Logical Networks sub-tab in the Hosts main tab] Can you please file a new BZ on that issue? [https://bugzilla.redhat.com/enter_bug.cgi?product=oVirt] (2) display the ip address (and maybe MTU) below the logical network name. e.g. ovirtmgmt (VLAN 1) IP: 192.168.0.1 - logical network 1 - logical network 2 currently, the appropriate location for this information is the details-pop-up that is displayed upon hovering on the logical network; however, in case we will decide to get rid of that pop-up, your suggestion above should be taken into consideration, and it would be great if you will file a new BZ on that issue as well. Thanks, Einav - Original Message - From: René Koch (ovido) r.k...@ovido.at To: Einav Cohen eco...@redhat.com Cc: info i...@eldanet.com, Eldan Hildesheim ehild...@redhat.com, users users@ovirt.org, j...@cs.yorku.ca Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 4:34:28 AM Subject: Re: [Users] Setup Host Network dialog - actions availability [ux][BZ#984737] On Thu, 2013-08-22 at 13:04 -0400, Einav Cohen wrote: Hi, This is about attempting to address the difficulty of finding the edit-action in the Setup Host Network dialog, as documented in Bug 984737 - usability: webadmin difficulty in assigning client ip, no gateway possible in bugzilla. We have a suggestion from Eldan (see attached HostSetupNetworks-HoverPopUp.png) which was described in the BZ (comment #3) and seemed acceptable by the reporter (comment #4), however IIUC - one of the main pain points described in the BZ was the fact that the user could not find the option to Edit the connection properties since he was looking in the wrong place, and needed to hover on the correct place, in order to find that option. So although the idea is somewhat helpful, my concern is that this solution is not enough (comment #5). Another proposal from Malini (comment #6) is to add an actions drop-down menu in the form of a small gear icon-button - see attached HostSetupNetworks-DropDownMenu.png. This proposal addresses my concern, however I have a question about another concern with this solution: would the actions-drop-down menu-items panel be revealed appear upon click or upon hover? In my opinion this is the better solution but still not enough. Let me explain why: There are 4 reasons (or did I forgot one?) why I want to change the network configuration: 1. Add new logical networks 2. Remove logical networks 3. Change ip addresses of 1 (or more) logical networks 4. Configure/change bonding options Ad 1 and 2: In the Setup hosts networks dialog the behavior is ok - improvements should be done when creating new logical networks. I think neutron integration will improve this... Ad 3: When changing (or adding) an ip address I first have to verify what's the current ip configuration of this host. If I don't use dns/static hosts entry I can see the current ip address of ovirtmgmt host in hosts tab, but for all other networks or when having hostnames configured I have to go to the Network Interfaces subtab of each host. In this tab I can already see the address I (properly) want to change or the interface where I want to add a new ip address. So why not allowing to edit ip addresses here? I don't mean going back to oVirt 3.0 style but just make existing ip addresses changeable here already by making the existing ip address clickable and open the edit network window. Bondings/logical networks should stay in setup host networks and there should also be a gear icon to edit/remove logical networks like in the DropDownMenu.png screenshot which reveals when clicking on it. Then you have the possibility to change the ip config wherever it's easier for you. I also vote for removing the tooltip on logical networks and instead display the ip address (and maybe MTU) below the logical network name. e.g. ovirtmgmt (VLAN 1) IP: 192.168.0.1 - logical network 1 - logical network 2 As ip addresses will most likely be configured only for ovirtmgmt, display network and storage network this dialog wouldn't get floated with too many information... Ad 4: Add a gear icon in the same way as for 3, but keep the ability to change the configuration only in Setup hosts networks dialog, no need imho in Network Interfaces subtab... Regards, René if it will be upon
Re: [Users] Setup Host Network dialog - actions availability [ux][BZ#984737]
On 22/08/13 20:04, Einav Cohen wrote: Hi, This is about attempting to address the difficulty of finding the edit-action in the Setup Host Network dialog, as documented in Bug 984737 - usability: webadmin difficulty in assigning client ip, no gateway possible in bugzilla. We have a suggestion from Eldan (see attached HostSetupNetworks-HoverPopUp.png) which was described in the BZ (comment #3) and seemed acceptable by the reporter (comment #4), however IIUC - one of the main pain points described in the BZ was the fact that the user could not find the option to Edit the connection properties since he was looking in the wrong place, and needed to hover on the correct place, in order to find that option. So although the idea is somewhat helpful, my concern is that this solution is not enough (comment #5). Another proposal from Malini (comment #6) is to add an actions drop-down menu in the form of a small gear icon-button - see attached HostSetupNetworks-DropDownMenu.png. This proposal addresses my concern, however I have a question about another concern with this solution: would the actions-drop-down menu-items panel be revealed appear upon click or upon hover? if it will be upon hover, it might seem weird/be conflicted/be somewhat confusing with the hover functionality that reveals the logical-network details pop-up. If this proposal is accepted (see my comments below about both proposals), one solution might be to get rid of the network details tooltip. Most people probably don't use MTU, and the rest is just explaining the network role icons; so maybe not that useful. if it will be upon click, it means that in order to edit a logical network, two clicks will be required in order to get to the edit dialog, as opposed to one click in the current state and in Eldan's suggestion. maybe having two clicks in order to get to the edit dialog is acceptable, however there may be some solutions for that: one possible solution would be to combine both attached suggestions, i.e. the actions within the hover pop-up, as well as the actions drop-down menu, however it means that there will be some redundancy of the actions availability. That sounds bad to me regardless of the other alternatives. another possible solution is to keep only the gear + down-arrow icon (or maybe only the down-arrow icon), without the actual drop-down menu there, just in order to indicate that there are some options available in that area, and have Eldan's pop-up appear when hovering on that icon (or even on the entire logical-network area, as happens today with the current details pop-up) thoughts? I like the gear icon because it's noticeable and easily recognizable. However, keep in mind that bonds should also have the same icon to keep a consistent design. Now imagine a configuration with several bonds on the left-hand-side and quite a few networks on the right-hand-side; I'm no designer, but it could get cluttered with all those gear icons. It MIGHT be preferable to use the other design (tooltip with action bar) and risk the odd person not easily finding it (no disrespect intended, Jason). I have no idea, however, if it's gonna be just the odd person or most people. I'd love to hear others' opinions. Regards, Einav ___ Users mailing list Users@ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Re: [Users] Setup Host Network dialog - actions availability [ux][BZ#984737]
On 08/22/2013 01:43 PM, Lior Vernia wrote: On 22/08/13 20:04, Einav Cohen wrote: Hi, This is about attempting to address the difficulty of finding the edit-action in the Setup Host Network dialog, as documented in Bug 984737 - usability: webadmin difficulty in assigning client ip, no gateway possible in bugzilla. We have a suggestion from Eldan (see attached HostSetupNetworks-HoverPopUp.png) which was described in the BZ (comment #3) and seemed acceptable by the reporter (comment #4), however IIUC - one of the main pain points described in the BZ was the fact that the user could not find the option to Edit the connection properties since he was looking in the wrong place, and needed to hover on the correct place, in order to find that option. So although the idea is somewhat helpful, my concern is that this solution is not enough (comment #5). Another proposal from Malini (comment #6) is to add an actions drop-down menu in the form of a small gear icon-button - see attached HostSetupNetworks-DropDownMenu.png. This proposal addresses my concern, however I have a question about another concern with this solution: would the actions-drop-down menu-items panel be revealed appear upon click or upon hover? if it will be upon hover, it might seem weird/be conflicted/be somewhat confusing with the hover functionality that reveals the logical-network details pop-up. The suggestion from Lior did include redesigning the tooltip frame to include an Edit command, which is certainly more intuitive than a pencil. That being said, I do agree that the gear solution which has been proposed is *more* intuitive and honestly more in line with what I was expecting. I didn't complain about Lior's response even though it didn't completely address my issue because it came from a designer, and I realized, looking at my desktop, that configurable elements often *do not* have hints that they are configurable. If this proposal is accepted (see my comments below about both proposals), one solution might be to get rid of the network details tooltip. Most people probably don't use MTU, and the rest is just explaining the network role icons; so maybe not that useful. if it will be upon click, it means that in order to edit a logical network, two clicks will be required in order to get to the edit dialog, as opposed to one click in the current state and in Eldan's suggestion. maybe having two clicks in order to get to the edit dialog is acceptable, however there may be some solutions for that: one possible solution would be to combine both attached suggestions, i.e. the actions within the hover pop-up, as well as the actions drop-down menu, however it means that there will be some redundancy of the actions availability. That sounds bad to me regardless of the other alternatives. another possible solution is to keep only the gear + down-arrow icon (or maybe only the down-arrow icon), without the actual drop-down menu there, just in order to indicate that there are some options available in that area, and have Eldan's pop-up appear when hovering on that icon (or even on the entire logical-network area, as happens today with the current details pop-up) thoughts? I like the gear icon because it's noticeable and easily recognizable. However, keep in mind that bonds should also have the same icon to keep a consistent design. Now imagine a configuration with several bonds on the left-hand-side and quite a few networks on the right-hand-side; I'm no designer, but it could get cluttered with all those gear icons. It MIGHT be preferable to use the other design (tooltip with action bar) and risk the odd person not easily finding it (no disrespect intended, Jason). I have no idea, however, if it's gonna be just the odd person or most people. I'd love to hear others' opinions. Having not used bridging/multiple VLANS prior to my experimentation with ovirt, it's always been the network interface itself that I have configured with IP/subnet/etc (eg. /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-eth0). Most of my machines (hundreds) have single network interfaces, and I've never needed to use bonding/bridging/etc which kept my network configuration very simple. After experimenting with oVirt, and doing my share of reading, I certainly understand the concept of logical networks and their configuration with oVirt, and yes, it all makes a lot of sense NOW (well, except for the fact that really when it comes down to it, the Linux configuration for anything but basic networking is, in my opinion, anything but intuitive.) Nonetheless, please keep in mind that a concept which might be completely crystal clear to someone who uses it on a daily basis might be a little less intuitive to someone who is using it for the first time. Fortunately, I've got *plenty* of patience. :) Regards, Einav Thanks for your help! Jason. ___ Users mailing list Users@ovirt.org
Re: [Users] Setup Host Network dialog - actions availability [ux][BZ#984737]
tor 2013-08-22 klockan 20:43 +0300 skrev Lior Vernia: On 22/08/13 20:04, Einav Cohen wrote: Hi, This is about attempting to address the difficulty of finding the edit-action in the Setup Host Network dialog, as documented in Bug 984737 - usability: webadmin difficulty in assigning client ip, no gateway possible in bugzilla. We have a suggestion from Eldan (see attached HostSetupNetworks-HoverPopUp.png) which was described in the BZ (comment #3) and seemed acceptable by the reporter (comment #4), however IIUC - one of the main pain points described in the BZ was the fact that the user could not find the option to Edit the connection properties since he was looking in the wrong place, and needed to hover on the correct place, in order to find that option. So although the idea is somewhat helpful, my concern is that this solution is not enough (comment #5). Another proposal from Malini (comment #6) is to add an actions drop-down menu in the form of a small gear icon-button - see attached HostSetupNetworks-DropDownMenu.png. This proposal addresses my concern, however I have a question about another concern with this solution: would the actions-drop-down menu-items panel be revealed appear upon click or upon hover? if it will be upon hover, it might seem weird/be conflicted/be somewhat confusing with the hover functionality that reveals the logical-network details pop-up. If this proposal is accepted (see my comments below about both proposals), one solution might be to get rid of the network details tooltip. Most people probably don't use MTU, Just a FYI there Lior; we do:) And when 10GbE becomes available, Jumbo Frames is going to be required to use all that bandwidth. Otherwise you are capped at about half(500MB/s as opposed to 1,2GB/s). /Karli and the rest is just explaining the network role icons; so maybe not that useful. if it will be upon click, it means that in order to edit a logical network, two clicks will be required in order to get to the edit dialog, as opposed to one click in the current state and in Eldan's suggestion. maybe having two clicks in order to get to the edit dialog is acceptable, however there may be some solutions for that: one possible solution would be to combine both attached suggestions, i.e. the actions within the hover pop-up, as well as the actions drop-down menu, however it means that there will be some redundancy of the actions availability. That sounds bad to me regardless of the other alternatives. another possible solution is to keep only the gear + down-arrow icon (or maybe only the down-arrow icon), without the actual drop-down menu there, just in order to indicate that there are some options available in that area, and have Eldan's pop-up appear when hovering on that icon (or even on the entire logical-network area, as happens today with the current details pop-up) thoughts? I like the gear icon because it's noticeable and easily recognizable. However, keep in mind that bonds should also have the same icon to keep a consistent design. Now imagine a configuration with several bonds on the left-hand-side and quite a few networks on the right-hand-side; I'm no designer, but it could get cluttered with all those gear icons. It MIGHT be preferable to use the other design (tooltip with action bar) and risk the odd person not easily finding it (no disrespect intended, Jason). I have no idea, however, if it's gonna be just the odd person or most people. I'd love to hear others' opinions. Regards, Einav ___ Users mailing list Users@ovirt.orgmailto:Users@ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users -- Med Vänliga Hälsningar --- Karli Sjöberg Swedish University of Agricultural Sciences Box 7079 (Visiting Address Kronåsvägen 8) S-750 07 Uppsala, Sweden Phone: +46-(0)18-67 15 66 karli.sjob...@slu.semailto:karli.sjob...@adm.slu.se ___ Users mailing list Users@ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users
