Re: [ovirt-users] Backups take sooo long, how can I improve the situation, where is the bottleneck?

[Yaniv Kaul]

On Jan 5, 2017 7:27 PM, "Florian Nolden"  wrote:

Hallo everyone,

I would like to update my Ovirt installation but, before that I would like
to create proper VM backups. Currently I try to automate the backups and I
use the implementation of the following project.
https://github.com/wefixit-AT/oVirtBackup

The main idea is to use the Ovirt-API to trigger a snapshot, create a new
VM from the snapshot, delete the snapshot, export the vm to the export
domain, delete the vm.

This process takes even with only a 20 GB vm disk 55 Minutes. I have now 21
VMs with average 30 GB HDD space, that would mean that the backup job runs
22 hours.

Is there something wrong with my setup?
Config?
Is there a better way to automate backups?
Is anyone else doing VM Exports as backup or are you just using snapshots?


Specs:
HA Cluster 3 Nodes each has:
2x 6x 2.96 GHz, 96 GB RAM, 120 GB HDD for CentOS7, 1 TB SSD VM-Storage
(Gluster FS), 4x 1 GBit LAN Bond, 4x 1GBit SAN Bond (Gluster Network,
connection to Backup NAS/ Export Domain)


If you are using Gluster I'd utilize geo-replication.
See https://github.com/sabose/ovirt-georep-backup

Ovirt 4.0.3


I'd upgrade.
Y.


The script output:
Jan 05 14:12:16: Start backup for: wiki (20 GB)
Jan 05 14:12:17: Snapshot creation started ...
Jan 05 14:12:30: Snapshot created
Jan 05 14:12:40: Clone into VM started ...
Jan 05 14:36:37: Cloning finished
Jan 05 14:36:38: Snapshot deletion started ...
Jan 05 14:59:27: Snapshots deleted
Jan 05 14:59:28: Export started ...
Jan 05 15:07:09: Exporting finished
Jan 05 15:07:09: Delete cloned VM started ...
Jan 05 15:07:15: Cloned VM deleted
Jan 05 15:07:15: Duration: 55:0 minutes
Jan 05 15:07:15: VM exported as wiki_BACKUP_010516
Jan 05 15:07:15: Backup done for: wiki
Jan 05 15:07:15: All backups done


Thanks,
Florain

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Re: [ovirt-users] Backups take sooo long, how can I improve the situation, where is the bottleneck?

[Ernest Beinrohr]

On 05.01.2017 18:26, Florian Nolden wrote:

Hallo everyone,

I would like to update my Ovirt installation but, before that I would 
like to create proper VM backups. Currently I try to automate the 
backups and I use the implementation of the following project.

https://github.com/wefixit-AT/oVirtBackup

The problem is that ovirt does not support exporting from a snapshot. 
Because of that, the data is copied twice, first for the VM and then for 
export. you can wait for ovirt to support direct export. Or hack it like 
I have, and export the data yourself directly from the SPM via lvm.

--
Ernest Beinrohr, AXON PRO
Ing , RHCE 
, RHCVA 
, LPIC 
, VCA ,

+421-2-62410360 +421-903-482603
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Re: [ovirt-users] Backups take sooo long, how can I improve the situation, where is the bottleneck?

[Arman Khalatyan]

Hi Florian,
Did you check the IO  load on the SPM host during the backup? If you have
1Gbit network then the maximum theoretical  IO is restricted to 100MB/s .
So if you get 20GB raw preallocated disk then a single disk backup will be
about: 20/0.08/3600 hours x 3times~10mins: .08 is 20% overhead,3time for
the clone-export-deletesnap process.
Vdsm has also restriction on the migration process to avoid the network
saturation. Check the Cluster properties: this is available for the 4.0
capable clusters. or set the migration_max_bandwidth in vdsm.conf on the
hosts.


Am 05.01.2017 6:27 nachm. schrieb "Florian Nolden" :

> Hallo everyone,
>
> I would like to update my Ovirt installation but, before that I would like
> to create proper VM backups. Currently I try to automate the backups and I
> use the implementation of the following project.
> https://github.com/wefixit-AT/oVirtBackup
>
> The main idea is to use the Ovirt-API to trigger a snapshot, create a new
> VM from the snapshot, delete the snapshot, export the vm to the export
> domain, delete the vm.
>
> This process takes even with only a 20 GB vm disk 55 Minutes. I have now
> 21 VMs with average 30 GB HDD space, that would mean that the backup job
> runs 22 hours.
>
> Is there something wrong with my setup?
> Config?
> Is there a better way to automate backups?
> Is anyone else doing VM Exports as backup or are you just using snapshots?
>
>
> Specs:
> HA Cluster 3 Nodes each has:
> 2x 6x 2.96 GHz, 96 GB RAM, 120 GB HDD for CentOS7, 1 TB SSD VM-Storage
> (Gluster FS), 4x 1 GBit LAN Bond, 4x 1GBit SAN Bond (Gluster Network,
> connection to Backup NAS/ Export Domain)
> Ovirt 4.0.3
>
> The script output:
> Jan 05 14:12:16: Start backup for: wiki (20 GB)
> Jan 05 14:12:17: Snapshot creation started ...
> Jan 05 14:12:30: Snapshot created
> Jan 05 14:12:40: Clone into VM started ...
> Jan 05 14:36:37: Cloning finished
> Jan 05 14:36:38: Snapshot deletion started ...
> Jan 05 14:59:27: Snapshots deleted
> Jan 05 14:59:28: Export started ...
> Jan 05 15:07:09: Exporting finished
> Jan 05 15:07:09: Delete cloned VM started ...
> Jan 05 15:07:15: Cloned VM deleted
> Jan 05 15:07:15: Duration: 55:0 minutes
> Jan 05 15:07:15: VM exported as wiki_BACKUP_010516
> Jan 05 15:07:15: Backup done for: wiki
> Jan 05 15:07:15: All backups done
>
>
> Thanks,
> Florain
>
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[ovirt-users] Backups take sooo long, how can I improve the situation, where is the bottleneck?

[Florian Nolden]

Hallo everyone,

I would like to update my Ovirt installation but, before that I would like
to create proper VM backups. Currently I try to automate the backups and I
use the implementation of the following project.
https://github.com/wefixit-AT/oVirtBackup

The main idea is to use the Ovirt-API to trigger a snapshot, create a new
VM from the snapshot, delete the snapshot, export the vm to the export
domain, delete the vm.

This process takes even with only a 20 GB vm disk 55 Minutes. I have now 21
VMs with average 30 GB HDD space, that would mean that the backup job runs
22 hours.

Is there something wrong with my setup?
Config?
Is there a better way to automate backups?
Is anyone else doing VM Exports as backup or are you just using snapshots?


Specs:
HA Cluster 3 Nodes each has:
2x 6x 2.96 GHz, 96 GB RAM, 120 GB HDD for CentOS7, 1 TB SSD VM-Storage
(Gluster FS), 4x 1 GBit LAN Bond, 4x 1GBit SAN Bond (Gluster Network,
connection to Backup NAS/ Export Domain)
Ovirt 4.0.3

The script output:
Jan 05 14:12:16: Start backup for: wiki (20 GB)
Jan 05 14:12:17: Snapshot creation started ...
Jan 05 14:12:30: Snapshot created
Jan 05 14:12:40: Clone into VM started ...
Jan 05 14:36:37: Cloning finished
Jan 05 14:36:38: Snapshot deletion started ...
Jan 05 14:59:27: Snapshots deleted
Jan 05 14:59:28: Export started ...
Jan 05 15:07:09: Exporting finished
Jan 05 15:07:09: Delete cloned VM started ...
Jan 05 15:07:15: Cloned VM deleted
Jan 05 15:07:15: Duration: 55:0 minutes
Jan 05 15:07:15: VM exported as wiki_BACKUP_010516
Jan 05 15:07:15: Backup done for: wiki
Jan 05 15:07:15: All backups done


Thanks,
Florain
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[ovirt-users] [BACKUPS] oVirt 3.6 Backups

[Julian De Marchi]

heya--

Trying to get oVirt backups working after seeing the notifications in my 
admin interface that no backups have occurred.


I am having a few dramas running it. First if I just run engine-backup 
mode=backup it fails as it does not have a default option for a log 
file. So I musy run engine-backup --mode=backup --log=/var/log/ovirt-backup


Next once it runs it fails to notify the engine. Here is the output from 
the log file:


2015-11-16 09:34:57 28124: OUTPUT: Notifying engine
2015-11-16 09:34:57 28124: pg_cmd running: psql -w -U engine -h 
localhost -p 5432  engine -t -c SELECT LogEngineBackupEvent('files', 
now(), -1, 'Failed', '$HOSTNAME', '/tmp/test');

psql: fe_sendauth: no password supplied
2015-11-16 09:34:57 28124: FATAL: Failed notifying engine
2015-11-16 09:34:57 28124: OUTPUT: Notifying engine
2015-11-16 09:34:57 28124: pg_cmd running: psql -w -U engine -h 
localhost -p 5432  engine -t -c SELECT LogEngineBackupEvent('files', 
now(), -1, 'Failed notifying engine', '$HOSTNAME', '/tmp/test');

psql: fe_sendauth: no password supplied
2015-11-16 09:34:57 28124: FATAL: Failed notifying engine
2015-11-16 09:34:57 28124: OUTPUT: Notifying engine
2015-11-16 09:34:57 28124: pg_cmd running: psql -w -U engine -h 
localhost -p 5432  engine -t -c SELECT LogEngineBackupEvent('files', 
now(), -1, 'Failed notifying engine', '$HOSTNAME', '/tmp/test');

psql: fe_sendauth: no password supplied
2015-11-16 09:34:57 28124: FATAL: Failed notifying engine
2015-11-16 09:34:57 28124: OUTPUT: Notifying engine
2015-11-16 09:34:57 28124: pg_cmd running: psql -w -U engine -h 
localhost -p 5432  engine -t -c SELECT LogEngineBackupEvent('files', 
now(), -1, 'Failed notifying engine', '$HOSTNAME', '/tmp/test');

psql: fe_sendauth: no password supplied

Any help with this would be great!

Thanks a lot.

--julian
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Re: [ovirt-users] [BACKUPS] oVirt 3.6 Backups

[Yedidyah Bar David]

On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 1:37 AM, Julian De Marchi
 wrote:
> heya--
>
> Trying to get oVirt backups working after seeing the notifications in my
> admin interface that no backups have occurred.
>
> I am having a few dramas running it. First if I just run engine-backup
> mode=backup it fails as it does not have a default option for a log file. So
> I musy run engine-backup --mode=backup --log=/var/log/ovirt-backup
>
> Next once it runs it fails to notify the engine. Here is the output from the
> log file:
>
> 2015-11-16 09:34:57 28124: OUTPUT: Notifying engine
> 2015-11-16 09:34:57 28124: pg_cmd running: psql -w -U engine -h localhost -p
> 5432  engine -t -c SELECT LogEngineBackupEvent('files', now(), -1, 'Failed',
> '$HOSTNAME', '/tmp/test');
> psql: fe_sendauth: no password supplied
> 2015-11-16 09:34:57 28124: FATAL: Failed notifying engine
> 2015-11-16 09:34:57 28124: OUTPUT: Notifying engine
> 2015-11-16 09:34:57 28124: pg_cmd running: psql -w -U engine -h localhost -p
> 5432  engine -t -c SELECT LogEngineBackupEvent('files', now(), -1, 'Failed
> notifying engine', '$HOSTNAME', '/tmp/test');
> psql: fe_sendauth: no password supplied
> 2015-11-16 09:34:57 28124: FATAL: Failed notifying engine
> 2015-11-16 09:34:57 28124: OUTPUT: Notifying engine
> 2015-11-16 09:34:57 28124: pg_cmd running: psql -w -U engine -h localhost -p
> 5432  engine -t -c SELECT LogEngineBackupEvent('files', now(), -1, 'Failed
> notifying engine', '$HOSTNAME', '/tmp/test');
> psql: fe_sendauth: no password supplied
> 2015-11-16 09:34:57 28124: FATAL: Failed notifying engine
> 2015-11-16 09:34:57 28124: OUTPUT: Notifying engine
> 2015-11-16 09:34:57 28124: pg_cmd running: psql -w -U engine -h localhost -p
> 5432  engine -t -c SELECT LogEngineBackupEvent('files', now(), -1, 'Failed
> notifying engine', '$HOSTNAME', '/tmp/test');
> psql: fe_sendauth: no password supplied

It's most probably [1]. If it's something else, please provide full command
line and log. Thanks!

[1] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1240923

Best,
-- 
Didi
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Re: [ovirt-users] [BACKUPS] oVirt 3.6 Backups

[Julian De Marchi]

On 16/11/2015 4:43 PM, Yedidyah Bar David wrote:

It's most probably [1]. If it's something else, please provide full command
line and log. Thanks!


The below command worked flawlessly. Thanks so much!

/usr/bin/engine-backup --mode=backup --file=`pwd`/test.tar --log=/tmp/test

--julian
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[Users] Backups

[Maurice James]

What is the recommended enterprise backup solution for RHEV/oVirt?

Symantec, Veem, Backula

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Re: [Users] backups

[Itamar Heim]

On 11/30/2013 10:36 PM, Blaster wrote:

On 11/27/2013 10:52 AM, Sander Grendelman wrote:

The main problem in oVirt with this strategy would be the lack of live
snapshot deletion.
Having to shut down the VM to delete/merge a snapshot is not nice :(


Ouch?!  Is there an ETA as to when you'll be able to delete a live
snapshot ?

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it requires some heavy lifting in changing some storage aspects which 
would have other benefits as well - we are very focused on resolving 
this one.

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Re: [Users] backups

[Juan Pablo Lorier]

Thanks, just to check I was not missing something I can use myself to
ease my days :-)
Regards,

On 30/11/13 18:40, Blaster wrote:


 On 11/27/2013 11:27 AM, Juan Pablo Lorier wrote:
 Hi,

 Just curious, is it really the porpoise of the snapshot to backup both
 the vm and the application data? I think snapshot is appropriate to
 backup the vm and the you should have your regular backup for the app,
 as a database backup that can be done online. In this scenario you take
 a backup of the vm when something changes (updates, new software,
 configs, etc) and not all the time and do regular backups of the db as
 it's the information that changes all the time.
 I said this because I'm curious about the benefits of doing backups the
 way it's been posted.
 Regards,

 Contrary to my other post, which was more educational than practical,
 yes, you generally would not back up app data via a hypervisor
 snapshot.  Generally you would only backup the OS disk and perhaps the
 application binaries.  This would be for quick restore of the OS and
 app, so you don't have to spend hours reconfiguring your OS. 
 (especially Windows based OSes)

 I also do an IN OS backup as well, for individual file restores in the
 instances you accidentally destroy something in /etc for example.


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Re: [Users] backups

[Martijn Grendelman]

Blaster schreef op 30-11-2013 21:40:
 Contrary to my other post, which was more educational than practical, 
 yes, you generally would not back up app data via a hypervisor 
 snapshot.  Generally you would only backup the OS disk and perhaps the 
 application binaries.  This would be for quick restore of the OS and 
 app, so you don't have to spend hours reconfiguring your OS.  
 (especially Windows based OSes)
 
 I also do an IN OS backup as well, for individual file restores in the 
 instances you accidentally destroy something in /etc for example.

If your backups are 1) recent and 2) consistent (to a level that suits
you), what does it matter how you make them?

Cheers,
Martijn.
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Re: [Users] backups

[Blaster]

On 11/27/2013 10:52 AM, Sander Grendelman wrote:

The main problem in oVirt with this strategy would be the lack of live
snapshot deletion.
Having to shut down the VM to delete/merge a snapshot is not nice :(


Ouch?!  Is there an ETA as to when you'll be able to delete a live 
snapshot ?


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Re: [Users] backups

[Blaster]

On 11/27/2013 11:27 AM, Juan Pablo Lorier wrote:

Hi,

Just curious, is it really the porpoise of the snapshot to backup both
the vm and the application data? I think snapshot is appropriate to
backup the vm and the you should have your regular backup for the app,
as a database backup that can be done online. In this scenario you take
a backup of the vm when something changes (updates, new software,
configs, etc) and not all the time and do regular backups of the db as
it's the information that changes all the time.
I said this because I'm curious about the benefits of doing backups the
way it's been posted.
Regards,


Contrary to my other post, which was more educational than practical, 
yes, you generally would not back up app data via a hypervisor 
snapshot.  Generally you would only backup the OS disk and perhaps the 
application binaries.  This would be for quick restore of the OS and 
app, so you don't have to spend hours reconfiguring your OS.  
(especially Windows based OSes)


I also do an IN OS backup as well, for individual file restores in the 
instances you accidentally destroy something in /etc for example.


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Re: [Users] backups

[Itamar Heim]

On 11/27/2013 10:41 PM, Lindsay Mathieson wrote:

On Thu, 28 Nov 2013 06:28:26 AM you wrote:

Yes and no. Backups of the VM for disaster recover purposes, and regular
*separate* data backups done from within the VM.



NB - quiescising/ windows stylle VSS for vm backups is desirable to ensure DB
tables etc aren't corrupted on restore, but it isn't a replacement for data
backups.


just a btw that the qemu-guest-agent if installed on a windows guest is 
supposed to interact with VSS during live snapshot.


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Re: [Users] backups

[Lindsay Mathieson]

On Thu, 28 Nov 2013 11:34:13 AM Itamar Heim wrote:
 just a btw that the qemu-guest-agent if installed on a windows guest is
 supposed to interact with VSS during live snapshot.


I was wondering that - do you have a reference to the docs online?

thanks,
--
Lindsay

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Re: [Users] backups

[Itamar Heim]

On 11/28/2013 12:58 PM, Lindsay Mathieson wrote:

On Thu, 28 Nov 2013 11:34:13 AM Itamar Heim wrote:

just a btw that the qemu-guest-agent if installed on a windows guest is
supposed to interact with VSS during live snapshot.



I was wondering that - do you have a reference to the docs online?

thanks,



best i can offer, from rhel 6.5:
Bug 948017 - VSS support for qemu-ga-win
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Re: [Users] backups

[Lindsay Mathieson]

On Thu, 28 Nov 2013 01:16:28 PM you wrote:
 best i can offer, from rhel 6.5:
 Bug 948017 - VSS support for qemu-ga-win

Thanks Itamer

from my reading of the bug report can I assume its implemented and made its
way into the windows packages Oct-30th?

thanks,
--
Lindsay

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Re: [Users] backups

[Itamar Heim]

On 11/28/2013 02:22 PM, Lindsay Mathieson wrote:

On Thu, 28 Nov 2013 01:16:28 PM you wrote:

best i can offer, from rhel 6.5:
Bug 948017 - VSS support for qemu-ga-win


Thanks Itamer

from my reading of the bug report can I assume its implemented and made its
way into the windows packages Oct-30th?


that's my understanding. the packages were released with rhel 6.5 last 
week probably.


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Re: [Users] backups

[Andrew Cathrow]

- Original Message -
 From: Itamar Heim ih...@redhat.com
 To: Lindsay Mathieson lindsay.mathie...@gmail.com, users@ovirt.org
 Sent: Thursday, November 28, 2013 7:24:09 AM
 Subject: Re: [Users] backups
 
 On 11/28/2013 02:22 PM, Lindsay Mathieson wrote:
  On Thu, 28 Nov 2013 01:16:28 PM you wrote:
  best i can offer, from rhel 6.5:
  Bug 948017 - VSS support for qemu-ga-win
 
  Thanks Itamer
 
  from my reading of the bug report can I assume its implemented and
  made its
  way into the windows packages Oct-30th?
 
 that's my understanding. the packages were released with rhel 6.5
 last
 week probably.

yes, VSS support for QEMU-GA was added and released in RHEL 6.5
http://rhn.redhat.com/errata/RHBA-2013-1729.html



 
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Re: [Users] backups

[Martijn Grendelman]

Hi Charles,

 How are you folks doing your hypervisor level backups?
 
 Under ESXi I used GhettoVCB which basically took a snap shot, copied the 
 disk image to another location, then deleted the snap.

Thank you for this hint, I didn't know about GhettoVCB and I'm
definately going to have a look at it.

 I haven't been able to find too much information on how this can be done 
 with ovirt.  I see discussions on the new backup API, but I'm not 
 interested in spending big bucks on an enterprise backup solution for a 
 home lab.
 
 Only discussion I saw on using snapshots for backups said don't do it 
 because the tools don't sync memory when the snapshots are taken.

The problem with snapshot-based backups is, that they are usually only
crash-consistent, meaning that they contain the state of a system's
disks as they would be if you pulled the power plug on a server. If you
restore a system from this type of backup, you would see file system
recovery happening at the first boot, and you risk data loss from -for
example- database servers.

The process that GhettoVCB uses according to your description above is
the same. Your backups are only crash-consistent.

If you need application-level consistency, you need a mechanism to
inform applications that a backup is going to take place (or rather: a
snapshot will be taken) and that they should place themselves in a
consistent state. For example: sync data to disk, flush transaction
logs, stuff like that. Microsoft Windows has VSS for that. For Linux,
there is no such thing (that I know of). Common practice for quiescing
database servers and such on Linux is making consistent SQL dumps in a
pre-backup job.

I my case, for most guests a crash-consistent backup, containing a
recent MySQL or PostgreSQL dump is sufficient. I use LVM snapshots (not
oVirt snapshots) for backups, and I use Rsync to transfer the data. I
have been experimenting with Virtsync [1], but I'm having a bit of
trouble with that, so for the moment, it's just Rsync.

Efficiently backing up sparse images with Rsync can be a bit of a
challenge (that's why Virtsync was created in the first place, IIRC),
but using '--sparse' on the inital backup and '--inplace' on subsequent
backups seems to do the trick.

[1] http://www.virtsync.com/

I hope this helps.

Cheers,
Martijn.
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Re: [Users] backups

[Blaster]

On 11/27/2013 4:24 AM, Martijn Grendelman wrote:
The problem with snapshot-based backups is, that they are usually only 
crash-consistent, meaning that they contain the state of a system's 
disks as they would be if you pulled the power plug on a server. If 
you restore a system from this type of backup, you would see file 
system recovery happening at the first boot, and you risk data loss 
from -for example- database servers. 


The work-around for this is to SSH into the guest first, put the 
database into backup mode(maybe run sync a time or two to flush out as 
much from RAM as possible), take the snap shot, ssh back in to resume 
the database, backup the snap, delete the snap.






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Re: [Users] backups

[Martijn Grendelman]

Blaster schreef op 27-11-2013 17:23:
 On 11/27/2013 4:24 AM, Martijn Grendelman wrote:
 The problem with snapshot-based backups is, that they are usually only 
 crash-consistent, meaning that they contain the state of a system's 
 disks as they would be if you pulled the power plug on a server. If 
 you restore a system from this type of backup, you would see file 
 system recovery happening at the first boot, and you risk data loss 
 from -for example- database servers. 
 
 The work-around for this is to SSH into the guest first, put the 
 database into backup mode(maybe run sync a time or two to flush out as 
 much from RAM as possible), take the snap shot, ssh back in to resume 
 the database, backup the snap, delete the snap.

Yes, for example for MySQL, you could

1. issue a FLUSH TABLES WITH READ LOCK statement
2. create a snapshot
3. issue a UNLOCK TABLES statement

before starting a backup from the snapshot, to get a consistent backup
of the binary table space.

Cheers,
Martijn.
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Re: [Users] backups

[Sander Grendelman]

 The work-around for this is to SSH into the guest first, put the database
 into backup mode(maybe run sync a time or two to flush out as much from RAM
 as possible), take the snap shot, ssh back in to resume the database, backup
 the snap, delete the snap.

The main problem in oVirt with this strategy would be the lack of live
snapshot deletion.
Having to shut down the VM to delete/merge a snapshot is not nice :(
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Re: [Users] backups

[Juan Pablo Lorier]

Hi,

Just curious, is it really the porpoise of the snapshot to backup both
the vm and the application data? I think snapshot is appropriate to
backup the vm and the you should have your regular backup for the app,
as a database backup that can be done online. In this scenario you take
a backup of the vm when something changes (updates, new software,
configs, etc) and not all the time and do regular backups of the db as
it's the information that changes all the time.
I said this because I'm curious about the benefits of doing backups the
way it's been posted.
Regards,
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Re: [Users] backups

[Lindsay Mathieson]

On Wed, 27 Nov 2013 03:27:24 PM Juan Pablo Lorier wrote:
 ust curious, is it really the porpoise of the snapshot to backup both
 the vm and the application data?


Yes and no. Backups of the VM for disaster recover purposes, and regular
*separate* data backups done from within the VM.
--
Lindsay

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[Users] backups

[Charles]

How are you folks doing your hypervisor level backups?

Under ESXi I used GhettoVCB which basically took a snap shot, copied the 
disk image to another location, then deleted the snap.


I haven't been able to find too much information on how this can be done 
with ovirt.  I see discussions on the new backup API, but I'm not 
interested in spending big bucks on an enterprise backup solution for a 
home lab.


Only discussion I saw on using snapshots for backups said don't do it 
because the tools don't sync memory when the snapshots are taken.




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