Re: [ovirt-users] Local and Shared storage in same datacenter

2016-10-31 Thread Pavel Gashev 
FTW, attaching physical local drives to VMs also works well.
Disks -> New -> Direct LUN -> Storage Type: Fibre Channel -> Use Host…
Your disk doesn't have to be Fibre Channel. Just any direct attached disk works 
well.

-Original Message-
From: Yedidyah Bar David <d...@redhat.com>
Date: Monday 31 October 2016 at 17:13
To: Pavel Gashev <p...@acronis.com>
Cc: Mike <maill...@probie.nl>, "users@ovirt.org" <users@ovirt.org>
Subject: Re: [ovirt-users] Local and Shared storage in same datacenter

On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 4:02 PM, Pavel Gashev <p...@acronis.com> wrote:
> Mike,
>
> As workaround it's not very hard to create a mount command wrapper that 
> converts local NFS mounts to bind-mounts. The propper way I think is to patch 
> the VDSM service to handle local NFS mounts. In result, a NFS storage will 
> work like a local storage if it's local.

Or write your own hook [1] that will cleanly do whatever
you want without patching anything. Oh, I see we already have one
there [2]! I wonder how no-one mentioned it so far. Are there
known issues with it?

[1] http://www.ovirt.org/develop/developer-guide/vdsm/hooks/
[2] http://www.ovirt.org/develop/developer-guide/vdsm/hook/vmdisk/

>
> -Original Message-
> From: Mike <maill...@probie.nl>
> Date: Monday 31 October 2016 at 16:33
> To: Pavel Gashev <p...@acronis.com>, "users@ovirt.org" <users@ovirt.org>
> Subject: Re: [ovirt-users] Local and Shared storage in same datacenter
>
> Hi Pavel,
>
> Op 31-10-2016 om 11:22 schreef Pavel Gashev:
>> Mike,
>>
>> You can share and use your local storage via NFS. So all your storages are 
>> shared, and can be used in the same datacenter.
> I installed a nfs server on the hypervisor and am using it that way at
> the moment.
> It feels 'wrong' but it seems to work okay and it is fast as far as I
> can tell.
> Still would like to see another solution without the added latency of
> nfs and be able to utilize directio, etc.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: <users-boun...@ovirt.org> on behalf of "Mike (maillinglists)" 
>> <maill...@probie.nl>
>> Date: Sunday 30 October 2016 at 13:02
>> To: "users@ovirt.org" <users@ovirt.org>
>> Subject: [ovirt-users] Local and Shared storage in same datacenter
>>
>> Hi guys,
>>
>> There have been a few related questions already that I could find, but I
>> did not find anything relating to my specific use case.
>>
>> Currently it is not possible to mix local storage with shared storage in
>> the same datacenter.
>> The reason seems to be because of the storage pool manager (SPM).
>> This is a role in the datacenter provided to one specific host.
>>
>> While I understand that this makes having local storage impossible, I
>> believe there is a use case to have local storage in a shared storage
>> datacenter.
>> Consider the following:
>> I have a few applications that require 1 milli second latency and at
>> most 2 milli second.
>> That is not consistenly achievable with shared storage, to that end I
>> added flash storage to a few hypervisors.
>> About 5% of my servers require this and are not that resource hungry to
>> require a dedicated physical server.
>> That same 5% also has no requirement to be migrated if a host fails.
>>
>> So in short I have 5 heavy hosts running ovirt with a shared storage
>> domain on NFS for 95% of my servers.
>> All running fine, but I am now unable to run my remaining 5%.
>>
>> To finish up my summary I have been testing various virtualization
>> technologies, like VmWare and Hyper-V.
>> They allow such configurations as I mentioned.
>>
>> I already had some chat on irc with various guys and they suggested that
>> I put this on the mailing list, so here goes.
>>
>> My suggestion would be to evoluate from SPM to SDM.
>> SDM stands for Storage Domain Manager.
>> This would create the possibility to have all nodes in the datacenter
>> participate in the storage handling.
>> A extra benefit would be that local storage could be added.
>>
>> What do you think?
>>
>> Thanks for reading.
>>
>> Kind regards,
>> Mike van Goor
>> ___
>> Users mailing list
>> Users@ovirt.org
>> http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>>
>>
>
>
>
> ___
> Users mailing list
> Users@ovirt.org
> http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users



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Re: [ovirt-users] Local and Shared storage in same datacenter

2016-10-31 Thread Pavel Gashev 
I think it's all about online VM migration. oVirt doesn't support online VM 
migration together with online storage migration. So any storage has to be 
accessible from any hosts in a datacenter. That's why local storages are too 
restricted.

Converting Local storages to Shared removes the restriction. Avoiding NFS layer 
locally removes the NFS performance drawback. And both allow to adhere to the 
oVirt way.

-Original Message-
From: Fernando Frediani <fernando.fredi...@upx.com.br>
Date: Monday 31 October 2016 at 17:07
To: Pavel Gashev <p...@acronis.com>
Subject: Re: [ovirt-users] Local and Shared storage in same datacenter

Why this 'workdaround' to share a local storage as NFS instead os just 
use it as a 'normal' Local storage ? Looks more like a chewing gum.

Is there any work in progress to change the way this storage pool 
manager works ?


On 31/10/2016 12:02, Pavel Gashev wrote:
> Mike,
>
> As workaround it's not very hard to create a mount command wrapper that 
> converts local NFS mounts to bind-mounts. The propper way I think is to patch 
> the VDSM service to handle local NFS mounts. In result, a NFS storage will 
> work like a local storage if it's local.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Mike <maill...@probie.nl>
> Date: Monday 31 October 2016 at 16:33
> To: Pavel Gashev <p...@acronis.com>, "users@ovirt.org" <users@ovirt.org>
> Subject: Re: [ovirt-users] Local and Shared storage in same datacenter
>
> Hi Pavel,
>
> Op 31-10-2016 om 11:22 schreef Pavel Gashev:
>> Mike,
>>
>> You can share and use your local storage via NFS. So all your storages are 
>> shared, and can be used in the same datacenter.
> I installed a nfs server on the hypervisor and am using it that way at
> the moment.
> It feels 'wrong' but it seems to work okay and it is fast as far as I
> can tell.
> Still would like to see another solution without the added latency of
> nfs and be able to utilize directio, etc.
>> -Original Message-
>> From: <users-boun...@ovirt.org> on behalf of "Mike (maillinglists)" 
>> <maill...@probie.nl>
>> Date: Sunday 30 October 2016 at 13:02
>> To: "users@ovirt.org" <users@ovirt.org>
>> Subject: [ovirt-users] Local and Shared storage in same datacenter
>>
>> Hi guys,
>>
>> There have been a few related questions already that I could find, but I
>> did not find anything relating to my specific use case.
>>
>> Currently it is not possible to mix local storage with shared storage in
>> the same datacenter.
>> The reason seems to be because of the storage pool manager (SPM).
>> This is a role in the datacenter provided to one specific host.
>>
>> While I understand that this makes having local storage impossible, I
>> believe there is a use case to have local storage in a shared storage
>> datacenter.
>> Consider the following:
>> I have a few applications that require 1 milli second latency and at
>> most 2 milli second.
>> That is not consistenly achievable with shared storage, to that end I
>> added flash storage to a few hypervisors.
>> About 5% of my servers require this and are not that resource hungry to
>> require a dedicated physical server.
>> That same 5% also has no requirement to be migrated if a host fails.
>>
>> So in short I have 5 heavy hosts running ovirt with a shared storage
>> domain on NFS for 95% of my servers.
>> All running fine, but I am now unable to run my remaining 5%.
>>
>> To finish up my summary I have been testing various virtualization
>> technologies, like VmWare and Hyper-V.
>> They allow such configurations as I mentioned.
>>
>> I already had some chat on irc with various guys and they suggested that
>> I put this on the mailing list, so here goes.
>>
>> My suggestion would be to evoluate from SPM to SDM.
>> SDM stands for Storage Domain Manager.
>> This would create the possibility to have all nodes in the datacenter
>> participate in the storage handling.
>> A extra benefit would be that local storage could be added.
>>
>> What do you think?
>>
>> Thanks for reading.
>>
>> Kind regards,
>> Mike van Goor
>> ___
>> Users mailing list
>> Users@ovirt.org
>> http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>>
>>
>
>
> ___
> Users mailing list
> Users@ovirt.org
> http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users



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Re: [ovirt-users] Local and Shared storage in same datacenter

2016-10-31 Thread Yedidyah Bar David 
On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 4:02 PM, Pavel Gashev <p...@acronis.com> wrote:
> Mike,
>
> As workaround it's not very hard to create a mount command wrapper that 
> converts local NFS mounts to bind-mounts. The propper way I think is to patch 
> the VDSM service to handle local NFS mounts. In result, a NFS storage will 
> work like a local storage if it's local.

Or write your own hook [1] that will cleanly do whatever
you want without patching anything. Oh, I see we already have one
there [2]! I wonder how no-one mentioned it so far. Are there
known issues with it?

[1] http://www.ovirt.org/develop/developer-guide/vdsm/hooks/
[2] http://www.ovirt.org/develop/developer-guide/vdsm/hook/vmdisk/

>
> -Original Message-
> From: Mike <maill...@probie.nl>
> Date: Monday 31 October 2016 at 16:33
> To: Pavel Gashev <p...@acronis.com>, "users@ovirt.org" <users@ovirt.org>
> Subject: Re: [ovirt-users] Local and Shared storage in same datacenter
>
> Hi Pavel,
>
> Op 31-10-2016 om 11:22 schreef Pavel Gashev:
>> Mike,
>>
>> You can share and use your local storage via NFS. So all your storages are 
>> shared, and can be used in the same datacenter.
> I installed a nfs server on the hypervisor and am using it that way at
> the moment.
> It feels 'wrong' but it seems to work okay and it is fast as far as I
> can tell.
> Still would like to see another solution without the added latency of
> nfs and be able to utilize directio, etc.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: <users-boun...@ovirt.org> on behalf of "Mike (maillinglists)" 
>> <maill...@probie.nl>
>> Date: Sunday 30 October 2016 at 13:02
>> To: "users@ovirt.org" <users@ovirt.org>
>> Subject: [ovirt-users] Local and Shared storage in same datacenter
>>
>> Hi guys,
>>
>> There have been a few related questions already that I could find, but I
>> did not find anything relating to my specific use case.
>>
>> Currently it is not possible to mix local storage with shared storage in
>> the same datacenter.
>> The reason seems to be because of the storage pool manager (SPM).
>> This is a role in the datacenter provided to one specific host.
>>
>> While I understand that this makes having local storage impossible, I
>> believe there is a use case to have local storage in a shared storage
>> datacenter.
>> Consider the following:
>> I have a few applications that require 1 milli second latency and at
>> most 2 milli second.
>> That is not consistenly achievable with shared storage, to that end I
>> added flash storage to a few hypervisors.
>> About 5% of my servers require this and are not that resource hungry to
>> require a dedicated physical server.
>> That same 5% also has no requirement to be migrated if a host fails.
>>
>> So in short I have 5 heavy hosts running ovirt with a shared storage
>> domain on NFS for 95% of my servers.
>> All running fine, but I am now unable to run my remaining 5%.
>>
>> To finish up my summary I have been testing various virtualization
>> technologies, like VmWare and Hyper-V.
>> They allow such configurations as I mentioned.
>>
>> I already had some chat on irc with various guys and they suggested that
>> I put this on the mailing list, so here goes.
>>
>> My suggestion would be to evoluate from SPM to SDM.
>> SDM stands for Storage Domain Manager.
>> This would create the possibility to have all nodes in the datacenter
>> participate in the storage handling.
>> A extra benefit would be that local storage could be added.
>>
>> What do you think?
>>
>> Thanks for reading.
>>
>> Kind regards,
>> Mike van Goor
>> ___
>> Users mailing list
>> Users@ovirt.org
>> http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>>
>>
>
>
>
> ___
> Users mailing list
> Users@ovirt.org
> http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users



-- 
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Re: [ovirt-users] Local and Shared storage in same datacenter

2016-10-31 Thread Pavel Gashev 
Mike,

As workaround it's not very hard to create a mount command wrapper that 
converts local NFS mounts to bind-mounts. The propper way I think is to patch 
the VDSM service to handle local NFS mounts. In result, a NFS storage will work 
like a local storage if it's local.

-Original Message-
From: Mike <maill...@probie.nl>
Date: Monday 31 October 2016 at 16:33
To: Pavel Gashev <p...@acronis.com>, "users@ovirt.org" <users@ovirt.org>
Subject: Re: [ovirt-users] Local and Shared storage in same datacenter

Hi Pavel,

Op 31-10-2016 om 11:22 schreef Pavel Gashev:
> Mike,
>
> You can share and use your local storage via NFS. So all your storages are 
> shared, and can be used in the same datacenter.
I installed a nfs server on the hypervisor and am using it that way at 
the moment.
It feels 'wrong' but it seems to work okay and it is fast as far as I 
can tell.
Still would like to see another solution without the added latency of 
nfs and be able to utilize directio, etc.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: <users-boun...@ovirt.org> on behalf of "Mike (maillinglists)" 
> <maill...@probie.nl>
> Date: Sunday 30 October 2016 at 13:02
> To: "users@ovirt.org" <users@ovirt.org>
> Subject: [ovirt-users] Local and Shared storage in same datacenter
>
> Hi guys,
>
> There have been a few related questions already that I could find, but I
> did not find anything relating to my specific use case.
>
> Currently it is not possible to mix local storage with shared storage in
> the same datacenter.
> The reason seems to be because of the storage pool manager (SPM).
> This is a role in the datacenter provided to one specific host.
>
> While I understand that this makes having local storage impossible, I
> believe there is a use case to have local storage in a shared storage
> datacenter.
> Consider the following:
> I have a few applications that require 1 milli second latency and at
> most 2 milli second.
> That is not consistenly achievable with shared storage, to that end I
> added flash storage to a few hypervisors.
> About 5% of my servers require this and are not that resource hungry to
> require a dedicated physical server.
> That same 5% also has no requirement to be migrated if a host fails.
>
> So in short I have 5 heavy hosts running ovirt with a shared storage
> domain on NFS for 95% of my servers.
> All running fine, but I am now unable to run my remaining 5%.
>
> To finish up my summary I have been testing various virtualization
> technologies, like VmWare and Hyper-V.
> They allow such configurations as I mentioned.
>
> I already had some chat on irc with various guys and they suggested that
> I put this on the mailing list, so here goes.
>
> My suggestion would be to evoluate from SPM to SDM.
> SDM stands for Storage Domain Manager.
> This would create the possibility to have all nodes in the datacenter
> participate in the storage handling.
> A extra benefit would be that local storage could be added.
>
> What do you think?
>
> Thanks for reading.
>
> Kind regards,
> Mike van Goor
> ___
> Users mailing list
> Users@ovirt.org
> http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>
>



___
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Re: [ovirt-users] Local and Shared storage in same datacenter

2016-10-31 Thread Mike 

Hi Pavel,

Op 31-10-2016 om 11:22 schreef Pavel Gashev:

Mike,

You can share and use your local storage via NFS. So all your storages are 
shared, and can be used in the same datacenter.
I installed a nfs server on the hypervisor and am using it that way at 
the moment.
It feels 'wrong' but it seems to work okay and it is fast as far as I 
can tell.
Still would like to see another solution without the added latency of 
nfs and be able to utilize directio, etc.


-Original Message-
From: <users-boun...@ovirt.org> on behalf of "Mike (maillinglists)" 
<maill...@probie.nl>
Date: Sunday 30 October 2016 at 13:02
To: "users@ovirt.org" <users@ovirt.org>
Subject: [ovirt-users] Local and Shared storage in same datacenter

Hi guys,

There have been a few related questions already that I could find, but I
did not find anything relating to my specific use case.

Currently it is not possible to mix local storage with shared storage in
the same datacenter.
The reason seems to be because of the storage pool manager (SPM).
This is a role in the datacenter provided to one specific host.

While I understand that this makes having local storage impossible, I
believe there is a use case to have local storage in a shared storage
datacenter.
Consider the following:
I have a few applications that require 1 milli second latency and at
most 2 milli second.
That is not consistenly achievable with shared storage, to that end I
added flash storage to a few hypervisors.
About 5% of my servers require this and are not that resource hungry to
require a dedicated physical server.
That same 5% also has no requirement to be migrated if a host fails.

So in short I have 5 heavy hosts running ovirt with a shared storage
domain on NFS for 95% of my servers.
All running fine, but I am now unable to run my remaining 5%.

To finish up my summary I have been testing various virtualization
technologies, like VmWare and Hyper-V.
They allow such configurations as I mentioned.

I already had some chat on irc with various guys and they suggested that
I put this on the mailing list, so here goes.

My suggestion would be to evoluate from SPM to SDM.
SDM stands for Storage Domain Manager.
This would create the possibility to have all nodes in the datacenter
participate in the storage handling.
A extra benefit would be that local storage could be added.

What do you think?

Thanks for reading.

Kind regards,
Mike van Goor
___
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Re: [ovirt-users] Local and Shared storage in same datacenter

2016-10-31 Thread Mike 

Op 31-10-2016 om 07:57 schreef Yedidyah Bar David:

On Sun, Oct 30, 2016 at 8:49 PM, Mike  wrote:

Op 30-10-2016 om 12:50 schreef Yaniv Kaul:


Perhaps, if there are no HA requirements, those VMs with local
domain
needs can be in their own DC, a local one? If it's just 5%,
shouldn't be
much of an effort?

Can a host be in 2 datacenters?


No, I suggested to dedicate a host (or several) with their own local DC
for those 5%.
Y.


I have 5 hosts and dedicating 2 hosts for 5% seems a gigantic waste if you
ask me.
So I cannot do that.


Not real solutions, but you might consider:

Using nested-kvm and "virtual hosts"

Copying the data to a local scratchpad upon every reboot, and perhaps rsync
back to shared storage on shutdown.

Thanks, it might be an angle to look at.
I am not there yet :)


Best,


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Re: [ovirt-users] Local and Shared storage in same datacenter

2016-10-31 Thread Pavel Gashev 
Mike,

You can share and use your local storage via NFS. So all your storages are 
shared, and can be used in the same datacenter.

-Original Message-
From: <users-boun...@ovirt.org> on behalf of "Mike (maillinglists)" 
<maill...@probie.nl>
Date: Sunday 30 October 2016 at 13:02
To: "users@ovirt.org" <users@ovirt.org>
Subject: [ovirt-users] Local and Shared storage in same datacenter

Hi guys,

There have been a few related questions already that I could find, but I 
did not find anything relating to my specific use case.

Currently it is not possible to mix local storage with shared storage in 
the same datacenter.
The reason seems to be because of the storage pool manager (SPM).
This is a role in the datacenter provided to one specific host.

While I understand that this makes having local storage impossible, I 
believe there is a use case to have local storage in a shared storage 
datacenter.
Consider the following:
I have a few applications that require 1 milli second latency and at 
most 2 milli second.
That is not consistenly achievable with shared storage, to that end I 
added flash storage to a few hypervisors.
About 5% of my servers require this and are not that resource hungry to 
require a dedicated physical server.
That same 5% also has no requirement to be migrated if a host fails.

So in short I have 5 heavy hosts running ovirt with a shared storage 
domain on NFS for 95% of my servers.
All running fine, but I am now unable to run my remaining 5%.

To finish up my summary I have been testing various virtualization 
technologies, like VmWare and Hyper-V.
They allow such configurations as I mentioned.

I already had some chat on irc with various guys and they suggested that 
I put this on the mailing list, so here goes.

My suggestion would be to evoluate from SPM to SDM.
SDM stands for Storage Domain Manager.
This would create the possibility to have all nodes in the datacenter 
participate in the storage handling.
A extra benefit would be that local storage could be added.

What do you think?

Thanks for reading.

Kind regards,
Mike van Goor
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Re: [ovirt-users] Local and Shared storage in same datacenter

2016-10-31 Thread Yedidyah Bar David 
On Sun, Oct 30, 2016 at 8:49 PM, Mike  wrote:
> Op 30-10-2016 om 12:50 schreef Yaniv Kaul:
>>
>> Perhaps, if there are no HA requirements, those VMs with local
>> domain
>> needs can be in their own DC, a local one? If it's just 5%,
>> shouldn't be
>> much of an effort?
>>
>> Can a host be in 2 datacenters?
>>
>>
>> No, I suggested to dedicate a host (or several) with their own local DC
>> for those 5%.
>> Y.
>
> I have 5 hosts and dedicating 2 hosts for 5% seems a gigantic waste if you
> ask me.
> So I cannot do that.

Not real solutions, but you might consider:

Using nested-kvm and "virtual hosts"

Copying the data to a local scratchpad upon every reboot, and perhaps rsync
back to shared storage on shutdown.

Best,

> ___
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> Users@ovirt.org
> http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users



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Re: [ovirt-users] Local and Shared storage in same datacenter

2016-10-30 Thread Mike 

Op 30-10-2016 om 12:50 schreef Yaniv Kaul:

Perhaps, if there are no HA requirements, those VMs with local
domain
needs can be in their own DC, a local one? If it's just 5%,
shouldn't be
much of an effort?

Can a host be in 2 datacenters?


No, I suggested to dedicate a host (or several) with their own local DC
for those 5%.
Y.
I have 5 hosts and dedicating 2 hosts for 5% seems a gigantic waste if 
you ask me.

So I cannot do that.
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Re: [ovirt-users] Local and Shared storage in same datacenter

2016-10-30 Thread Yaniv Kaul 
On Sun, Oct 30, 2016 at 12:47 PM, Mike (maillinglists) 
wrote:

> Hi Yaniv,
>
> Op 30-10-2016 om 11:35 schreef Yaniv Kaul:
>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 30, 2016 at 12:02 PM, Mike (maillinglists)
>> > wrote:
>>
>> Hi guys,
>>
>> There have been a few related questions already that I could find,
>> but I did not find anything relating to my specific use case.
>>
>> Currently it is not possible to mix local storage with shared
>> storage in the same datacenter.
>> The reason seems to be because of the storage pool manager (SPM).
>> This is a role in the datacenter provided to one specific host.
>>
>> While I understand that this makes having local storage impossible,
>> I believe there is a use case to have local storage in a shared
>> storage datacenter.
>>
>>
>> Indeed, this is one of the more appealing use cases. There are others s
>> well.
>>
>>
>> Consider the following:
>> I have a few applications that require 1 milli second latency and at
>> most 2 milli second.
>>
>>
>> For read, write or both?
>>
> Both I'm afraid.
>
>>
>>
>> That is not consistenly achievable with shared storage, to that end
>> I added flash storage to a few hypervisors.
>>
>>
>> You could have flash on your shared storage.
>>
> The problem with shared flash storage is the storage network required in
> between. I have seen shared NFS storage at 1ms latency, but that has not
> been stable and this application requires stable 1ms latencies.
>
>>
>>
>> About 5% of my servers require this and are not that resource hungry
>> to require a dedicated physical server.
>> That same 5% also has no requirement to be migrated if a host fails.
>>
>> So in short I have 5 heavy hosts running ovirt with a shared storage
>> domain on NFS for 95% of my servers.
>> All running fine, but I am now unable to run my remaining 5%.
>>
>>
>> Perhaps, if there are no HA requirements, those VMs with local domain
>> needs can be in their own DC, a local one? If it's just 5%, shouldn't be
>> much of an effort?
>>
> Can a host be in 2 datacenters?
>

No, I suggested to dedicate a host (or several) with their own local DC for
those 5%.
Y.


> I was not aware of this and I will investigate.
>
>>
>>
>> To finish up my summary I have been testing various virtualization
>> technologies, like VmWare and Hyper-V.
>> They allow such configurations as I mentioned.
>>
>> I already had some chat on irc with various guys and they suggested
>> that I put this on the mailing list, so here goes.
>>
>> My suggestion would be to evoluate from SPM to SDM.
>>
>>
>> Easier said than done... We have worked on this for quite some time,
>> it's not as easy as one might think.
>>
> I appreciate your honousty, but still hope this can be achieved.
>
>>
>>
>> SDM stands for Storage Domain Manager.
>> This would create the possibility to have all nodes in the
>> datacenter participate in the storage handling.
>> A extra benefit would be that local storage could be added.
>>
>> What do you think?
>>
>>
>> There are other use cases we think flash on the host can be used, some
>> may be of use for your use case.
>> For example, dm-cache[1].
>>
>> We are still looking at this. I think Gluster already can make use it
>> for cache, for example.
>> Y.
>>
> Gluster is an angle we are investigating, but takes time to look into.
> Thanks!
>
>>
>> [1] https://people.redhat.com/mskinner/rhug/q1.2016/dm-cache.pdf
>>
> Thanks!
>
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks for reading.
>>
>> Kind regards,
>> Mike van Goor
>> ___
>> Users mailing list
>> Users@ovirt.org 
>> http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>
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Re: [ovirt-users] Local and Shared storage in same datacenter

2016-10-30 Thread Mike (maillinglists) 

Hi Yaniv,

Op 30-10-2016 om 11:35 schreef Yaniv Kaul:



On Sun, Oct 30, 2016 at 12:02 PM, Mike (maillinglists)
> wrote:

Hi guys,

There have been a few related questions already that I could find,
but I did not find anything relating to my specific use case.

Currently it is not possible to mix local storage with shared
storage in the same datacenter.
The reason seems to be because of the storage pool manager (SPM).
This is a role in the datacenter provided to one specific host.

While I understand that this makes having local storage impossible,
I believe there is a use case to have local storage in a shared
storage datacenter.


Indeed, this is one of the more appealing use cases. There are others s
well.


Consider the following:
I have a few applications that require 1 milli second latency and at
most 2 milli second.


For read, write or both?

Both I'm afraid.



That is not consistenly achievable with shared storage, to that end
I added flash storage to a few hypervisors.


You could have flash on your shared storage.
The problem with shared flash storage is the storage network required in 
between. I have seen shared NFS storage at 1ms latency, but that has not 
been stable and this application requires stable 1ms latencies.



About 5% of my servers require this and are not that resource hungry
to require a dedicated physical server.
That same 5% also has no requirement to be migrated if a host fails.

So in short I have 5 heavy hosts running ovirt with a shared storage
domain on NFS for 95% of my servers.
All running fine, but I am now unable to run my remaining 5%.


Perhaps, if there are no HA requirements, those VMs with local domain
needs can be in their own DC, a local one? If it's just 5%, shouldn't be
much of an effort?

Can a host be in 2 datacenters?
I was not aware of this and I will investigate.



To finish up my summary I have been testing various virtualization
technologies, like VmWare and Hyper-V.
They allow such configurations as I mentioned.

I already had some chat on irc with various guys and they suggested
that I put this on the mailing list, so here goes.

My suggestion would be to evoluate from SPM to SDM.


Easier said than done... We have worked on this for quite some time,
it's not as easy as one might think.

I appreciate your honousty, but still hope this can be achieved.



SDM stands for Storage Domain Manager.
This would create the possibility to have all nodes in the
datacenter participate in the storage handling.
A extra benefit would be that local storage could be added.

What do you think?


There are other use cases we think flash on the host can be used, some
may be of use for your use case.
For example, dm-cache[1].

We are still looking at this. I think Gluster already can make use it
for cache, for example.
Y.
Gluster is an angle we are investigating, but takes time to look into. 
Thanks!


[1] https://people.redhat.com/mskinner/rhug/q1.2016/dm-cache.pdf

Thanks!




Thanks for reading.

Kind regards,
Mike van Goor
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Re: [ovirt-users] Local and Shared storage in same datacenter

2016-10-30 Thread Yaniv Kaul 
On Sun, Oct 30, 2016 at 12:02 PM, Mike (maillinglists) 
wrote:

> Hi guys,
>
> There have been a few related questions already that I could find, but I
> did not find anything relating to my specific use case.
>
> Currently it is not possible to mix local storage with shared storage in
> the same datacenter.
> The reason seems to be because of the storage pool manager (SPM).
> This is a role in the datacenter provided to one specific host.
>
> While I understand that this makes having local storage impossible, I
> believe there is a use case to have local storage in a shared storage
> datacenter.
>

Indeed, this is one of the more appealing use cases. There are others s
well.


> Consider the following:
> I have a few applications that require 1 milli second latency and at most
> 2 milli second.
>

For read, write or both?


> That is not consistenly achievable with shared storage, to that end I
> added flash storage to a few hypervisors.
>

You could have flash on your shared storage.


> About 5% of my servers require this and are not that resource hungry to
> require a dedicated physical server.
> That same 5% also has no requirement to be migrated if a host fails.
>
> So in short I have 5 heavy hosts running ovirt with a shared storage
> domain on NFS for 95% of my servers.
> All running fine, but I am now unable to run my remaining 5%.
>

Perhaps, if there are no HA requirements, those VMs with local domain needs
can be in their own DC, a local one? If it's just 5%, shouldn't be much of
an effort?

>
> To finish up my summary I have been testing various virtualization
> technologies, like VmWare and Hyper-V.
> They allow such configurations as I mentioned.
>
> I already had some chat on irc with various guys and they suggested that I
> put this on the mailing list, so here goes.
>
> My suggestion would be to evoluate from SPM to SDM.
>

Easier said than done... We have worked on this for quite some time, it's
not as easy as one might think.


> SDM stands for Storage Domain Manager.
> This would create the possibility to have all nodes in the datacenter
> participate in the storage handling.
> A extra benefit would be that local storage could be added.
>
> What do you think?
>

There are other use cases we think flash on the host can be used, some may
be of use for your use case.
For example, dm-cache[1].

We are still looking at this. I think Gluster already can make use it for
cache, for example.
Y.

[1] https://people.redhat.com/mskinner/rhug/q1.2016/dm-cache.pdf


>
> Thanks for reading.
>
> Kind regards,
> Mike van Goor
> ___
> Users mailing list
> Users@ovirt.org
> http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>
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Re: [ovirt-users] Local and Shared storage in same datacenter

2016-10-30 Thread Barak Korren 
> While I understand that this makes having local storage impossible, I
> believe there is a use case to have local storage in a shared storage
> datacenter.
> Consider the following:
> I have a few applications that require 1 milli second latency and at most 2
> milli second.
> That is not consistenly achievable with shared storage, to that end I added
> flash storage to a few hypervisors.
> About 5% of my servers require this and are not that resource hungry to
> require a dedicated physical server.
> That same 5% also has no requirement to be migrated if a host fails.
>

I mentioned this in another thread already, please look into the VDSM
scratchpad hook. It will allow you to attach (files on) the local SSDs
(as disks) to VMs when those VMs start up. It will perfectly meet your
use case if you only need to keep the data on the SSD while the VM is
up.


-- 
Barak Korren
bkor...@redhat.com
RHEV-CI Team
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[ovirt-users] Local and Shared storage in same datacenter

2016-10-30 Thread Mike (maillinglists) 

Hi guys,

There have been a few related questions already that I could find, but I 
did not find anything relating to my specific use case.


Currently it is not possible to mix local storage with shared storage in 
the same datacenter.

The reason seems to be because of the storage pool manager (SPM).
This is a role in the datacenter provided to one specific host.

While I understand that this makes having local storage impossible, I 
believe there is a use case to have local storage in a shared storage 
datacenter.

Consider the following:
I have a few applications that require 1 milli second latency and at 
most 2 milli second.
That is not consistenly achievable with shared storage, to that end I 
added flash storage to a few hypervisors.
About 5% of my servers require this and are not that resource hungry to 
require a dedicated physical server.

That same 5% also has no requirement to be migrated if a host fails.

So in short I have 5 heavy hosts running ovirt with a shared storage 
domain on NFS for 95% of my servers.

All running fine, but I am now unable to run my remaining 5%.

To finish up my summary I have been testing various virtualization 
technologies, like VmWare and Hyper-V.

They allow such configurations as I mentioned.

I already had some chat on irc with various guys and they suggested that 
I put this on the mailing list, so here goes.


My suggestion would be to evoluate from SPM to SDM.
SDM stands for Storage Domain Manager.
This would create the possibility to have all nodes in the datacenter 
participate in the storage handling.

A extra benefit would be that local storage could be added.

What do you think?

Thanks for reading.

Kind regards,
Mike van Goor
___
Users mailing list
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