[ovirt-users] Re: Oracle Virtualization Manager 4.5 anyone?
oVirt isn't exactly a trivial piece of software. Actually I'd say it's not even a piece of software, as the integration of the various companies whose fully independent products now make up oVirt, never fully happened. oVirt is Redhat Linux, Qumranet (KVM+Spice), Ansible (Ansible), GlusterFS (Z Research), VDO (Permabit), and I don't know how many others, and you currently need knowledge, perhaps even control over all of them to deliver the product. Oracle has somewhat duplicated RHEL and oVirt, but even for those two components I don't see how they could continue them without the upstream project. RHEL isn't going away very soon, but you've all watched the CentOS battle and how Redhat is turning [IBM] blue. VDO has been upstreamed, the fate of Gluster isn't publicly known but without a commercial product earning some revenue, it just can't survive for long. And all this is in a niche that even with Broadcom raising the stakes high enough to cause a stampede, is going up in clouds, unless the political fragmentation of the IT space becomes much, much stronger. oVirt needs a strong sponsor, but anyone but IBM making big bucks from oVirt cannot happen, because Redhat has both means and motivation to block that. Of course, that's just me thinking aloud and I could be all wrong... ___ Users mailing list -- users@ovirt.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@ovirt.org Privacy Statement: https://www.ovirt.org/privacy-policy.html oVirt Code of Conduct: https://www.ovirt.org/community/about/community-guidelines/ List Archives: https://lists.ovirt.org/archives/list/users@ovirt.org/message/3B24XOVYBJXS23BRQYUNMMM4JGFW2UNX/
[ovirt-users] Re: Oracle Virtualization Manager 4.5 anyone?
Hi all, The one big question I have, is: is Oracle contributing back to oVirt or do they plan to do so? It seems there are still some talented people working on both, so why not pool that talent? Best Alex ___ Users mailing list -- users@ovirt.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@ovirt.org Privacy Statement: https://www.ovirt.org/privacy-policy.html oVirt Code of Conduct: https://www.ovirt.org/community/about/community-guidelines/ List Archives: https://lists.ovirt.org/archives/list/users@ovirt.org/message/VRNRPWOCGQFXPMXPGFLU4PO3U6SOWRTC/
[ovirt-users] Re: Oracle Virtualization Manager 4.5 anyone?
Chance of a reprieve perhaps? On 12/03/2024 19:37, itsav...@gmail.com wrote: Oracle employee here, don't be surprised if you see an uptick in development activity, with the changes going in the virtualization market. That is all I can say. ___ Users mailing list -- users@ovirt.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@ovirt.org Privacy Statement: https://www.ovirt.org/privacy-policy.html oVirt Code of Conduct: https://www.ovirt.org/community/about/community-guidelines/ List Archives: https://lists.ovirt.org/archives/list/users@ovirt.org/message/VRTWU65BRXLICCLFICQNQO7YH457BZQL/ ___ Users mailing list -- users@ovirt.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@ovirt.org Privacy Statement: https://www.ovirt.org/privacy-policy.html oVirt Code of Conduct: https://www.ovirt.org/community/about/community-guidelines/ List Archives: https://lists.ovirt.org/archives/list/users@ovirt.org/message/JQZBBKZUQZYHV3HFGXAEYVPDNUQRDUT5/
[ovirt-users] Re: Oracle Virtualization Manager 4.5 anyone?
Oracle employee here, don't be surprised if you see an uptick in development activity, with the changes going in the virtualization market. That is all I can say. ___ Users mailing list -- users@ovirt.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@ovirt.org Privacy Statement: https://www.ovirt.org/privacy-policy.html oVirt Code of Conduct: https://www.ovirt.org/community/about/community-guidelines/ List Archives: https://lists.ovirt.org/archives/list/users@ovirt.org/message/VRTWU65BRXLICCLFICQNQO7YH457BZQL/
[ovirt-users] Re: Oracle Virtualization Manager 4.5 anyone?
Hi, Am Mittwoch, 27. Dezember 2023, 16:01:49 CET schrieb Jorge Visentini: > Hi Julian, > > As far as I know, Ceph with managed block storage is not supported by > oVirt... During Engine installation, you are asked if you want to enable Cinderlib (this is in Technology Preview) > Out of curiosity, did you use any documentation? Can you briefly describe > us or give us a step-by-step guide on how you did the configuration? This > interests me a lot. High level "documentation" is available in a design document[0]. More concrete examples are given in a blog post[1]. > I would like to use managed block storage here. As it stands right now, Cinderlib is usable but has some issues with VM migration where vdsm has some false assumptions about state. In my opinion, if we see any meaningful development of ovirt or its forks again, Cinderlib and Ceph would be the big features that can keep the software relevant for the future. [0] https://www.ovirt.org/develop/release-management/features/storage/ cinderlib-integration.html [1] https://blogs.ovirt.org/2021/07/using-ceph-only-storage-for-ovirt-datacenter/ -- Julian Fölsch Arbeitsgemeinschaft Dresdner Studentennetz (AG DSN) Tel.: +49 351 271816 69 E-Mail: julian.foel...@agdsn.de Studentenrat der TU Dresden Helmholtzstr. 10 01069 Dresden signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Users mailing list -- users@ovirt.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@ovirt.org Privacy Statement: https://www.ovirt.org/privacy-policy.html oVirt Code of Conduct: https://www.ovirt.org/community/about/community-guidelines/ List Archives: https://lists.ovirt.org/archives/list/users@ovirt.org/message/EPZVAT23VE45BEAPNB7PS5DZJG6O7KWP/
[ovirt-users] Re: Oracle Virtualization Manager 4.5 anyone?
In the future... maybe... https://harvesterhci.io/ Em qua., 3 de jan. de 2024 às 02:14, escreveu: > If Oracle is smart they would poach all the oVirt programmers from IBM and > take the lead in development. With Broadcom destroying VMWare, we are in a > real need for an alternative to Xen and Proxmox. I wouldn't have included > Proxmox a few months ago, but at least it's being actively developed. > ___ > Users mailing list -- users@ovirt.org > To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@ovirt.org > Privacy Statement: https://www.ovirt.org/privacy-policy.html > oVirt Code of Conduct: > https://www.ovirt.org/community/about/community-guidelines/ > List Archives: > https://lists.ovirt.org/archives/list/users@ovirt.org/message/KSMO32EJKM62KNGUIMBP2EETXSYK2OSW/ > -- Att, Jorge Visentini +55 55 98432-9868 ___ Users mailing list -- users@ovirt.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@ovirt.org Privacy Statement: https://www.ovirt.org/privacy-policy.html oVirt Code of Conduct: https://www.ovirt.org/community/about/community-guidelines/ List Archives: https://lists.ovirt.org/archives/list/users@ovirt.org/message/OBWEUIPEMQD26UJVYBUMHCIEN457QEVA/
[ovirt-users] Re: Oracle Virtualization Manager 4.5 anyone?
If Oracle is smart they would poach all the oVirt programmers from IBM and take the lead in development. With Broadcom destroying VMWare, we are in a real need for an alternative to Xen and Proxmox. I wouldn't have included Proxmox a few months ago, but at least it's being actively developed. ___ Users mailing list -- users@ovirt.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@ovirt.org Privacy Statement: https://www.ovirt.org/privacy-policy.html oVirt Code of Conduct: https://www.ovirt.org/community/about/community-guidelines/ List Archives: https://lists.ovirt.org/archives/list/users@ovirt.org/message/KSMO32EJKM62KNGUIMBP2EETXSYK2OSW/
[ovirt-users] Re: Oracle Virtualization Manager 4.5 anyone?
In theory, if oVirt supports it, the Oracle variant would do it to... unless they manage to break it. And since there is zero information on what they test, that could happen at any time. Same for HCI with GlusterFS or VDO. HCI has been removed as "a tested feature", but if you use the Cockpit GUI, it will just continue to work quite happily. I haven't actually tried it in combination with VDO, though. I've used oVirt deployed Gluster storage in Proxmox w/o any issue and I'm tempted to do the opposite, too (use Proxmox provided Ceph storage in oVirt). oVirt is all abstractions, so it *should* work. But until somebody actually tests, validates and fixes it (if necessary), it's simply a house of cards that can break with every change. Ich würde meine Hoffnungen nicht allzu hoch schrauben, momentan sehe ich das Projekt quasi dank seines Trägheitsmoments weiter laufen, aber ohne daß jemand das so richtig treibt oder gar Budget bereithält... was ausgesprochen schade ist, denn da steck eine riesige Menge Arbeit und weit mehr Potential (für die Anwender, weniger für die Hersteller) drinn. ___ Users mailing list -- users@ovirt.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@ovirt.org Privacy Statement: https://www.ovirt.org/privacy-policy.html oVirt Code of Conduct: https://www.ovirt.org/community/about/community-guidelines/ List Archives: https://lists.ovirt.org/archives/list/users@ovirt.org/message/ZPGD3UNQPC2WARWRZQLW4ETZADKKUAUE/
[ovirt-users] Re: Oracle Virtualization Manager 4.5 anyone?
Hi Julian, As far as I know, Ceph with managed block storage is not supported by oVirt... Out of curiosity, did you use any documentation? Can you briefly describe us or give us a step-by-step guide on how you did the configuration? This interests me a lot. I would like to use managed block storage here. Cheers! Em qua., 27 de dez. de 2023 às 06:16, escreveu: > Hi, > > Definitely surprising news. > What I am very curious about: I could not find any mention of managed > block > storage with Ceph in Oracles documentation. > We are currently using that in our Ovirt 4.5.5 cluster and seeing Oracle > releasing something gives me hope that our issues with it may be fixed and > we > would not need to migrate to a different solution. > > -- > > Julian Fölsch > > Arbeitsgemeinschaft Dresdner Studentennetz (AG DSN) > > Tel.: +49 351 271816 69 > E-Mail: julian.foel...@agdsn.de > > Studentenrat der TU Dresden > Helmholtzstr. 10 > 01069 Dresden___ > Users mailing list -- users@ovirt.org > To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@ovirt.org > Privacy Statement: https://www.ovirt.org/privacy-policy.html > oVirt Code of Conduct: > https://www.ovirt.org/community/about/community-guidelines/ > List Archives: > https://lists.ovirt.org/archives/list/users@ovirt.org/message/DHR3DJT6M7H2V5ZME2IYW3X32NUNY4ZN/ > -- Att, Jorge Visentini +55 55 98432-9868 ___ Users mailing list -- users@ovirt.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@ovirt.org Privacy Statement: https://www.ovirt.org/privacy-policy.html oVirt Code of Conduct: https://www.ovirt.org/community/about/community-guidelines/ List Archives: https://lists.ovirt.org/archives/list/users@ovirt.org/message/OJVIDB2INSA3D7FFGTWCV5KIYOS73Y7K/
[ovirt-users] Re: Oracle Virtualization Manager 4.5 anyone?
Hi, Definitely surprising news. What I am very curious about: I could not find any mention of managed block storage with Ceph in Oracles documentation. We are currently using that in our Ovirt 4.5.5 cluster and seeing Oracle releasing something gives me hope that our issues with it may be fixed and we would not need to migrate to a different solution. -- Julian Fölsch Arbeitsgemeinschaft Dresdner Studentennetz (AG DSN) Tel.: +49 351 271816 69 E-Mail: julian.foel...@agdsn.de Studentenrat der TU Dresden Helmholtzstr. 10 01069 Dresden signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Users mailing list -- users@ovirt.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@ovirt.org Privacy Statement: https://www.ovirt.org/privacy-policy.html oVirt Code of Conduct: https://www.ovirt.org/community/about/community-guidelines/ List Archives: https://lists.ovirt.org/archives/list/users@ovirt.org/message/DHR3DJT6M7H2V5ZME2IYW3X32NUNY4ZN/
[ovirt-users] Re: Oracle Virtualization Manager 4.5 anyone?
> Thomas, your e-mail created too much food for thought... as usual I would > say, remembering the past ;-) > I try to reply to some of them online below, putting my own personal > considerations on the table > Hi Gianluca, nice to meet you again! > On Thu, Dec 21, 2023 at 11:44 AM Thomas Hoberg > > I don't think so. I tried for quite some time their previous solution, > based on Xen, and simply it didn't work as expected in terms of many > enterprise class needed functionalities. Then I switched to oVirt and/or > RHV, depending on customer needs. And I think Oracle did the same. If I > remember correctly there was also a migration path. Xen is in dire straits. Which is a shame, given its history and its sometimes unique qualities e.g in the area of Library operating systems... The biggest technical issue I see is x86 architecture deficits, but in the mean-time it's simply eco-system size and some choices like OCAML that have turned into one big technical debt that nobody is going to pay. I think the Xcp-ng guys are heros, on older (supported) hardware Xcp-ng runs like a charm, but there are on an extiction branch of virtualization evolution. > > > > I don't agree. Even if not crystal clear and somehow confusing for > newcomers, they called it Oracle Linux Virtualization Manager (OLVM) since > the beginning, making it clear that in their regard they see it as an > extension of the operating system (Oracle Linux). In fact if you buy the > Premier Support level of the OS, you automatically get also support for > OLVM. if you use it. > Their previous solution branding was Oracle VM (or sometimes Oracle VM > Server) > Here you can still find all the solutions described, including VirtualBox > (and recently Kata Containers): > https://www.oracle.com/virtualization/ > Not a fight I want to pick, but Google fails me.. and I don't think it's Google's fault > > > In the past I asked and they told me that they planned to continue with > OLVM and its support even after RHV EOL. > And the 12th December announcement seems to confirm that. > Their product is a fork of oVirt. Without a roadmap and committed life cycles, nothing is a product. And with oVirt lacking both, Oracle's "fork relation" is nothing to build on. > > > > Great news, in my opinion > I didn't spot it yet, but you are right and here you can find the announce > page: > https://blogs.oracle.com/virtualization/post/oracle-linux-virtualization-... > It breathes life into what is potentially a carcass with lots of potential... But for how long? > > > The whole point here is that in my opinion GlusterFS is totally not ready > for enterprise use, based on my past tests in oVirt context. > In other terms, possibly the problems you are describing was more dependant > on GlusterFS configuration/tuning/bugs than on oVirt/OLVM versions > themselves > Just my opinion It was Redhat who spread the fiction of GlusterFS as the one solution without any scaling limits. Your opinion seems to resonate even with Redhat, who decided to discontinue any commercial product based on GlusterFS. But I need HCI, and Redhat/Oracle/oVirt isn't providing an [integrated] alternative. Ceph seems ok for that, but nobody is working on instrumentation. > > > > I don't think that. Based on licensing they have to let their sources > publicly available. > And in fact here you find all you need in case you want to crosscheck: > https://yum.oracle.com/oracle-linux-8.html > > In the link above you can find both 4.4 and 4.5 sources, together with the > OS and UEK kernels ones, because as said above, they consider OLVM an > extension of the operating system functionalities I've round Oracle Linux sources on Githubu, but their fork of oVirt is nowhere to be found... > > > > They support both Red Hat Compatible kernels and UEK ones. In case of > problems I think you can submit bugs. > The correct entry point for that for not paying customers should be this > one if I'm not wrong: > https://github.com/oracle/oracle-linux/issues I've seen that, and it looks like it's being monitored. But the equivalent for oVirt or OV is missing! > > > > I think you well understand that sw developer processing is not an easy > one, and that it comprises feature freezes and such... > If Oracle well before planned to come out with a 4.5 release based on a > fork of a well established 4.5.4 release, it is not so important to rebase > all the work on the just released oVirt 4.5.5. They had better release it > anyway after their quality testing and then update inside the normal > maintenance phase. And based on what oVirt 4.5.5 contains, it could be that > some of oVirt 4.5.5 features/fixes are already there in OLVM 4.5 > At the moment, from release notes we know that: > " > Release 4.5 of Oracle Linux Virtualization Manager is based on oVirt > community release version 4.5.4, which includes a number of bug fixes and > support for new features: > " I'd be more than happy with QA
[ovirt-users] Re: Oracle Virtualization Manager 4.5 anyone?
Thomas, your e-mail created too much food for thought... as usual I would say, remembering the past ;-) I try to reply to some of them online below, putting my own personal considerations on the table On Thu, Dec 21, 2023 at 11:44 AM Thomas Hoberg wrote: > Redhat's decision to shut down RHV caught Oracle pretty unprepared, I'd > guess, who had just shut down their own vSphere clone in favor of a RHV > clone a couple of years ago. > I don't think so. I tried for quite some time their previous solution, based on Xen, and simply it didn't work as expected in terms of many enterprise class needed functionalities. Then I switched to oVirt and/or RHV, depending on customer needs. And I think Oracle did the same. If I remember correctly there was also a migration path. > > Oracle is even less vocal about their "Oracle Virtualization" strategy, > they don't even seem to have a proper naming convention or branding. > I don't agree. Even if not crystal clear and somehow confusing for newcomers, they called it Oracle Linux Virtualization Manager (OLVM) since the beginning, making it clear that in their regard they see it as an extension of the operating system (Oracle Linux). In fact if you buy the Premier Support level of the OS, you automatically get also support for OLVM. if you use it. Their previous solution branding was Oracle VM (or sometimes Oracle VM Server) Here you can still find all the solutions described, including VirtualBox (and recently Kata Containers): https://www.oracle.com/virtualization/ > But they have been pushing out OV releases without a publicly announced > EOL almost a year behind Redhat for the last years. > In the past I asked and they told me that they planned to continue with OLVM and its support even after RHV EOL. And the 12th December announcement seems to confirm that. Their product is a fork of oVirt. > > And after a 4.4 release in September 22, a few days ago on December 12th > actually a release 4.5 was made public. > Great news, in my opinion I didn't spot it yet, but you are right and here you can find the announce page: https://blogs.oracle.com/virtualization/post/oracle-linux-virtualization-manager-delivers-enhanced-monitoring-and-reporting > I've operated oVirt 4.3 with significant quality issues for some years and > failed to make oVirt 4.4 work with any degree of acceptable stability but > Oracle's variant of 4.4 proved to be rather better than 4.3 on CentOS7 with > no noticable bugs, especially in the Hyperconverged setup that I am using > with GlusterFS. > The whole point here is that in my opinion GlusterFS is totally not ready for enterprise use, based on my past tests in oVirt context. In other terms, possibly the problems you are describing was more dependant on GlusterFS configuration/tuning/bugs than on oVirt/OLVM versions themselves Just my opinion > I assumed that this was because Oracle based their 4.4 in fact on RHV 4.4 > and not oVirt, but since they're not telling, who knows? > I don't think that. Based on licensing they have to let their sources publicly available. And in fact here you find all you need in case you want to crosscheck: https://yum.oracle.com/oracle-linux-8.html In the link above you can find both 4.4 and 4.5 sources, together with the OS and UEK kernels ones, because as said above, they consider OLVM an extension of the operating system functionalities > One issue with 4.4 was that Oracle is pushing their UE-Kernel and that > created immediate issues e.g. with VDO missing modules for UEK and other > stuff, but that was solved easily enough by using the RHEL kernel. > They support both Red Hat Compatible kernels and UEK ones. In case of problems I think you can submit bugs. The correct entry point for that for not paying customers should be this one if I'm not wrong: https://github.com/oracle/oracle-linux/issues > > With 4.5 Oracle obviously can't use RHV 4.5 as a base, because there is no > such thing with RHV declared EOL and according to Oracle their 4.5 is based > on oVirt 4.5.4, which made the quality of that release somewhat > questionable, but perhaps they have spent the year that has passed since > productively killing bugs... only to be caught by surprise again, I > presume, by an oVirt release 4.5.5 on December 1st, that no one saw coming! > I think you well understand that sw developer processing is not an easy one, and that it comprises feature freezes and such... If Oracle well before planned to come out with a 4.5 release based on a fork of a well established 4.5.4 release, it is not so important to rebase all the work on the just released oVirt 4.5.5. They had better release it anyway after their quality testing and then update inside the normal maintenance phase. And based on what oVirt 4.5.5 contains, it could be that some of oVirt 4.5.5 features/fixes are already there in OLVM 4.5 At the moment, from release notes we know that: " Release 4.5 of Oracle Linux Virtualization Manager is based on oVirt
