Re: [SOGo] Themes SOGo
Am 08.01.2015 22:04, schrieb Francis Lachapelle: Hallo, The v2 theme hasn't changed for years. It's time to move on. I don't even want to know how much time we waste every year re-training users because someone found it was necessary to move on. I hope the v3 design will be good enough to stay with us for a couple of years as well. I understand your concern. We hope the interfaces of v3 will last as long as the ones of v2. I still hope you will be providing a classic user interface that follows the direction of the good old-style paradigm, which is: - you really can SEE what a button is, because a button is something that can be pressed and as such is elevated (we had buttons which cannot be seen as such in Windows8 but also in the era of black-and-white screens) - you can see what functions a software offers because the functions are offered to the users -- and not hidden in ways like this function is only shown when you select something in exactly this way. This goes against the direction of showing functions ONLY in a context-sensitive way. Context-sensitive showing of functions is something for a context-menu, which is available through the right mouse button-menu or a gear-wheel menu. - you can distinguish icons by its *color* -- the human eye can really distinguish between colors! Many software products and web applications of todays time have grayscale icons which are only distinguishable through their shape, not through their color. But searching for the icon with the red X in it is so much easyier than trying to find an icon wich may look like a trashcan. None is too many, sometimes. Why do we need floating buttons now when we just spent years training users to use the toolbars? I don't think the paradigm is far from the traditional toolbars. The goal is really to have an intuitive interface, simpler to use. I hope that this simpler does not mean the same as the Windows8-like or Apple-like simpler, which does only mean uglier and harder to use. You have to notice that many users really use this kind of software on a daily basis, so it is not necessary to dumb-down the software or its UI. Many users have learned for over 20 years now how to use a user interface which is based on menus, toolbars, lists, real buttons etc. Please do not throw away this knowledge just for being modern. That's just my observations with recent UX improvements from Google/Microsoft/random webapps copying their styles – or rather, the main things my users complain about to me. It takes too long to identify interactive elements (due to the everything must be flat and there can't be any elevated elements craze – Material isn't the worst offender here, thankfully), and when they do, the elements randomly disappear because users try to reach them from a slightly different context, like in Firefox' and Office 2013's context dependant context menus – Firefox doesn't even show keyboard shortcuts any more, so while they still exist, the average user wouldn't know how to look them up. Flat design as it was initially proposed had weaknesses. Apple and other software companies have adjusted their user interfaces since then. We'll do our best to not repeat those errors. Then PLEASE PLEASE offer an additional classic style theme with elevated, really-look-as-if-you-can-click-on-it buttons, real toolbars etc. which does not pop up new things every now and then out of nowhere and which does not use half of the screen for oversized headers (like Google Material Design does. By the way, just compare the old and new look of the GMail app on Android (Old Android Design vs. Material Design): http://m.c.lnkd.licdn.com/mpr/mpr/p/6/005/073/2ac/2ffbebe.jpg The old interface shows more content and more information on the same screen -- and the content is not overlapped with some create new bubble. Also the menu bar offers more functions than now. Also it was easyier to distinguish between two messages because of a darker line between them. Just an example... As long as the shiney new presentation doesn't impact productivity, I won't mind. But far too many recent re-designs sacrificed usability to be more impressive in presentations, and I'm more than a bit wary of them by now. We are totally aware that SOGo is a productivity tool and needs a very good usability. I hope so. On one system, I have to work with Office2010, I still have problems finding some functions thanks to the Ribbon design. When using LibreOffice, which respects the users preference for real menus, it is easier for me to find functions and options. Just another example. Kind regards, Anna Christina Naß smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Kryptografische Unterschrift
Re: [SOGo] Themes SOGo
On Jan 7, 2015, at 7:55 AM, Christian Mack christian.m...@uni-konstanz.de wrote: Am 2014-12-07 um 11:12 schrieb FoxNET Info: I return with or downloads Themes SOGo, do you have any links? There are no Themes for SOGo. The only other frontend design available is that from zentyal http://www.zentyal.org/ If you want to change the design read the following FAQ http://www.sogo.nu/english/nc/support/faq/article/how-to-customize-the-html.html The next major release of SOGo (v3) will offer multiple themes and/or an easy way to customize the colours and fonts of the interface. Francis-- users@sogo.nu https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists
Re: [SOGo] Themes SOGo
On 2015-01-08 15:26, Anna Christina Naß wrote: Am 08.01.2015 15:10, schrieb Francis Lachapelle: Hallo, The next major release of SOGo (v3) will offer multiple themes and/or an easy way to customize the colours and fonts of the interface. I hope that it will feature a non-flat really-usable classic theme for people who dislike the Windows 8-ish style which appeared everywhere in the Internet and makes many websites harder to use than ever. I'll second this. We didn't invent high-contrast colour monitors so some bored designers can go and make everything flat grey and indistinguishable. If there is a need for financial support for such a theme, just open some kind of Kickstarter or Bounty. Regards Anna Christina Naß -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen, / Best Regards, Sven Schwedas Systemadministrator TAO Beratungs- und Management GmbH | Lendplatz 45 | A - 8020 Graz Mail/XMPP: sven.schwe...@tao.at | +43 (0)680 301 7167 http://software.tao.at signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [SOGo] Themes SOGo
Am 08.01.2015 15:10, schrieb Francis Lachapelle: Hallo, The next major release of SOGo (v3) will offer multiple themes and/or an easy way to customize the colours and fonts of the interface. I hope that it will feature a non-flat really-usable classic theme for people who dislike the Windows 8-ish style which appeared everywhere in the Internet and makes many websites harder to use than ever. If there is a need for financial support for such a theme, just open some kind of Kickstarter or Bounty. Regards Anna Christina Naß smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Kryptografische Unterschrift
Re: [SOGo] Themes SOGo
On 2015-01-08 15:56, Francis Lachapelle wrote: Hi Anna On Jan 8, 2015, at 9:26 AM, Anna Christina Naß a...@annachristina.eu wrote: The next major release of SOGo (v3) will offer multiple themes and/or an easy way to customize the colours and fonts of the interface. I hope that it will feature a non-flat really-usable classic theme for people who dislike the Windows 8-ish style which appeared everywhere in the Internet and makes many websites harder to use than ever. If there is a need for financial support for such a theme, just open some kind of Kickstarter or Bounty. You'll have to define what classic is for you. Presumably the current v2 theming. Rest assured that v3 will be even more user-friendly and hopefully pleasant to use for the majority of users. We're looking into adopting Google Material design specifications (http://www.google.com/design/spec/material-design/). It's the most complete spec I never seen for web applications. While it's not as bad as others, there's some rather jarring concepts, like floating action buttons (3 toolbars weren't enough, apparently?). In general, context sensitive UX is fine for casual use where you don't bother trying to learn a program anyway; but when you want to (because you're using $program 8 hours a day and it'd make you more productive), it makes training muscle memory a lot harder as actions randomly appear/disappear (especially bad when there's not even keyboard shortcuts). Francis-- users@sogo.nu https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen, / Best Regards, Sven Schwedas Systemadministrator TAO Beratungs- und Management GmbH | Lendplatz 45 | A - 8020 Graz Mail/XMPP: sven.schwe...@tao.at | +43 (0)680 301 7167 http://software.tao.at signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [SOGo] Themes SOGo
On Jan 8, 2015, at 10:20 AM, Sven Schwedas sven.schwe...@tao.at wrote: On 2015-01-08 15:56, Francis Lachapelle wrote: Hi Anna On Jan 8, 2015, at 9:26 AM, Anna Christina Naß a...@annachristina.eu wrote: The next major release of SOGo (v3) will offer multiple themes and/or an easy way to customize the colours and fonts of the interface. I hope that it will feature a non-flat really-usable classic theme for people who dislike the Windows 8-ish style which appeared everywhere in the Internet and makes many websites harder to use than ever. If there is a need for financial support for such a theme, just open some kind of Kickstarter or Bounty. You'll have to define what classic is for you. Presumably the current v2 theming. The v2 theme hasn't changed for years. It's time to move on. Rest assured that v3 will be even more user-friendly and hopefully pleasant to use for the majority of users. We're looking into adopting Google Material design specifications (http://www.google.com/design/spec/material-design/). It's the most complete spec I never seen for web applications. While it's not as bad as others, there's some rather jarring concepts, like floating action buttons (3 toolbars weren't enough, apparently?). They suggest to only promote the most common/important action as a floating action button. There should not be multiple floating buttons. In general, context sensitive UX is fine for casual use where you don't bother trying to learn a program anyway; but when you want to (because you're using $program 8 hours a day and it'd make you more productive), it makes training muscle memory a lot harder as actions randomly appear/disappear (especially bad when there's not even keyboard shortcuts). I'm not sure to follow. Who's talking about a random interface? Why would v3 not have keyboard shortcuts? v3 has to be accessible on mobile devices and will therefore be responsive. In this perspective, the interface will change depending on the size of your screen but the interface will stay similar. Francis-- users@sogo.nu https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists
Re: [SOGo] Themes SOGo
Hi Anna On Jan 8, 2015, at 9:26 AM, Anna Christina Naß a...@annachristina.eu wrote: The next major release of SOGo (v3) will offer multiple themes and/or an easy way to customize the colours and fonts of the interface. I hope that it will feature a non-flat really-usable classic theme for people who dislike the Windows 8-ish style which appeared everywhere in the Internet and makes many websites harder to use than ever. If there is a need for financial support for such a theme, just open some kind of Kickstarter or Bounty. You'll have to define what classic is for you. Rest assured that v3 will be even more user-friendly and hopefully pleasant to use for the majority of users. We're looking into adopting Google Material design specifications (http://www.google.com/design/spec/material-design/). It's the most complete spec I never seen for web applications. Francis-- users@sogo.nu https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists
Re: [SOGo] Themes SOGo
On 2015-01-08 16:45, Francis Lachapelle wrote: On Jan 8, 2015, at 10:20 AM, Sven Schwedas sven.schwe...@tao.at wrote: On 2015-01-08 15:56, Francis Lachapelle wrote: Hi Anna On Jan 8, 2015, at 9:26 AM, Anna Christina Naß a...@annachristina.eu wrote: The next major release of SOGo (v3) will offer multiple themes and/or an easy way to customize the colours and fonts of the interface. I hope that it will feature a non-flat really-usable classic theme for people who dislike the Windows 8-ish style which appeared everywhere in the Internet and makes many websites harder to use than ever. If there is a need for financial support for such a theme, just open some kind of Kickstarter or Bounty. You'll have to define what classic is for you. Presumably the current v2 theming. The v2 theme hasn't changed for years. It's time to move on. I don't even want to know how much time we waste every year re-training users because someone found it was necessary to move on. I hope the v3 design will be good enough to stay with us for a couple of years as well. Rest assured that v3 will be even more user-friendly and hopefully pleasant to use for the majority of users. We're looking into adopting Google Material design specifications (http://www.google.com/design/spec/material-design/). It's the most complete spec I never seen for web applications. While it's not as bad as others, there's some rather jarring concepts, like floating action buttons (3 toolbars weren't enough, apparently?). They suggest to only promote the most common/important action as a floating action button. There should not be multiple floating buttons. None is too many, sometimes. Why do we need floating buttons now when we just spent years training users to use the toolbars? In general, context sensitive UX is fine for casual use where you don't bother trying to learn a program anyway; but when you want to (because you're using $program 8 hours a day and it'd make you more productive), it makes training muscle memory a lot harder as actions randomly appear/disappear (especially bad when there's not even keyboard shortcuts). I'm not sure to follow. Who's talking about a random interface? That's just my observations with recent UX improvements from Google/Microsoft/random webapps copying their styles – or rather, the main things my users complain about to me. It takes too long to identify interactive elements (due to the everything must be flat and there can't be any elevated elements craze – Material isn't the worst offender here, thankfully), and when they do, the elements randomly disappear because users try to reach them from a slightly different context, like in Firefox' and Office 2013's context dependant context menus – Firefox doesn't even show keyboard shortcuts any more, so while they still exist, the average user wouldn't know how to look them up. Why would v3 not have keyboard shortcuts? v3 has to be accessible on mobile devices and will therefore be responsive. In this perspective, the interface will change depending on the size of your screen but the interface will stay similar. As long as the shiney new presentation doesn't impact productivity, I won't mind. But far too many recent re-designs sacrificed usability to be more impressive in presentations, and I'm more than a bit wary of them by now. -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen, / Best Regards, Sven Schwedas Systemadministrator TAO Beratungs- und Management GmbH | Lendplatz 45 | A - 8020 Graz Mail/XMPP: sven.schwe...@tao.at | +43 (0)680 301 7167 http://software.tao.at signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [SOGo] Themes SOGo
On Jan 8, 2015, at 11:27 AM, Sven Schwedas sven.schwe...@tao.at wrote: On 2015-01-08 16:45, Francis Lachapelle wrote: On Jan 8, 2015, at 10:20 AM, Sven Schwedas sven.schwe...@tao.at wrote: On 2015-01-08 15:56, Francis Lachapelle wrote: Hi Anna On Jan 8, 2015, at 9:26 AM, Anna Christina Naß a...@annachristina.eu wrote: The next major release of SOGo (v3) will offer multiple themes and/or an easy way to customize the colours and fonts of the interface. I hope that it will feature a non-flat really-usable classic theme for people who dislike the Windows 8-ish style which appeared everywhere in the Internet and makes many websites harder to use than ever. If there is a need for financial support for such a theme, just open some kind of Kickstarter or Bounty. You'll have to define what classic is for you. Presumably the current v2 theming. The v2 theme hasn't changed for years. It's time to move on. I don't even want to know how much time we waste every year re-training users because someone found it was necessary to move on. I hope the v3 design will be good enough to stay with us for a couple of years as well. I understand your concern. We hope the interfaces of v3 will last as long as the ones of v2. Rest assured that v3 will be even more user-friendly and hopefully pleasant to use for the majority of users. We're looking into adopting Google Material design specifications (http://www.google.com/design/spec/material-design/). It's the most complete spec I never seen for web applications. While it's not as bad as others, there's some rather jarring concepts, like floating action buttons (3 toolbars weren't enough, apparently?). They suggest to only promote the most common/important action as a floating action button. There should not be multiple floating buttons. None is too many, sometimes. Why do we need floating buttons now when we just spent years training users to use the toolbars? I don't think the paradigm is far from the traditional toolbars. The goal is really to have an intuitive interface, simpler to use. In general, context sensitive UX is fine for casual use where you don't bother trying to learn a program anyway; but when you want to (because you're using $program 8 hours a day and it'd make you more productive), it makes training muscle memory a lot harder as actions randomly appear/disappear (especially bad when there's not even keyboard shortcuts). I'm not sure to follow. Who's talking about a random interface? That's just my observations with recent UX improvements from Google/Microsoft/random webapps copying their styles – or rather, the main things my users complain about to me. It takes too long to identify interactive elements (due to the everything must be flat and there can't be any elevated elements craze – Material isn't the worst offender here, thankfully), and when they do, the elements randomly disappear because users try to reach them from a slightly different context, like in Firefox' and Office 2013's context dependant context menus – Firefox doesn't even show keyboard shortcuts any more, so while they still exist, the average user wouldn't know how to look them up. Flat design as it was initially proposed had weaknesses. Apple and other software companies have adjusted their user interfaces since then. We'll do our best to not repeat those errors. Why would v3 not have keyboard shortcuts? v3 has to be accessible on mobile devices and will therefore be responsive. In this perspective, the interface will change depending on the size of your screen but the interface will stay similar. As long as the shiney new presentation doesn't impact productivity, I won't mind. But far too many recent re-designs sacrificed usability to be more impressive in presentations, and I'm more than a bit wary of them by now. We are totally aware that SOGo is a productivity tool and needs a very good usability. Francis-- users@sogo.nu https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists
Re: [SOGo] Themes SOGo
Hello Michel Am 2014-12-07 um 11:12 schrieb FoxNET Info: I return with or downloads Themes SOGo, do you have any links? There are no Themes for SOGo. The only other frontend design available is that from zentyal http://www.zentyal.org/ If you want to change the design read the following FAQ http://www.sogo.nu/english/nc/support/faq/article/how-to-customize-the-html.html Kind regards, Christian Mack -- Christian Mack Universität Konstanz Kommunikations-, Informations-, Medienzentrum (KIM) Abteilung Basisdienste 78457 Konstanz +49 7531 88-4416 smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
[SOGo] Themes SOGo
hello I return with or downloads Themes SOGo, do you have any links? Thank you for your help Michel -- users@sogo.nu https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists
