wicket and 508 compilance
I am new to wicket and want to build web application using wicket, my application should be 508 compliance , so want to know using wicket for any reason can break 508 compliance ? -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/wicket-and-508-compilance-tp20208921p20208921.html Sent from the Wicket - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: wicket and 508 compilance
You mean like WAI triple A? http://www.w3.org/WAI/WCAG1AAA-Conformance No it won't break it but it wont enforce it either.. miro wrote: I am new to wicket and want to build web application using wicket, my application should be 508 compliance , so want to know using wicket for any reason can break 508 compliance ? -- -Wicket for love Nino Martinez Wael Java Specialist @ Jayway DK http://www.jayway.dk +45 2936 7684 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: wicket and 508 compilance
There are lots of ways of making accessibility happening, but throwing more arguments to constructors isn't one of 'm. Ever took a short look at DDC? Instead of taking this narrow vision, perhaps start a discussion of how we can make accessibility easy to implement, while not raping our API? Martijn On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 4:23 PM, Steve Swinsburg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I alluded to this in a feature request for a new constructor of the ExternalLink component in the hope that it would start the ball rolling on getting some accessibility happening in the rest of Wicket, but just about everyone that commented said it should not be implemented. https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/WICKET-1878 Wont fix?! Its section 13.1 of the accessibility document! Yes you can add it manually, but you can do many things manually. If the constructor is there it allows people to automatically take advantage of it. If you don't manually add it, you won't get a title on your link. Come on, lets get some accessibility happening. Then we can tout Wicket as being a accessible-by-design as well! Steve On 28 Oct 2008, at 15:07, Nino Saturnino Martinez Vazquez Wael wrote: Of course you should be aware that some components might not be compliant, but I think that's mostly in wicketstuff.. Nino Saturnino Martinez Vazquez Wael wrote: You mean like WAI triple A? http://www.w3.org/WAI/WCAG1AAA-Conformance No it won't break it but it wont enforce it either.. miro wrote: I am new to wicket and want to build web application using wicket, my application should be 508 compliance , so want to know using wicket for any reason can break 508 compliance ? -- -Wicket for love Nino Martinez Wael Java Specialist @ Jayway DK http://www.jayway.dk +45 2936 7684 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Become a Wicket expert, learn from the best: http://wicketinaction.com Apache Wicket 1.3.4 is released Get it now: http://www.apache.org/dyn/closer.cgi/wicket/1.3. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: wicket and 508 compilance
What are you referring to when you say DDC? The Dewey Decimal System? Used by pretty much every library around the world making it really easy to find books? I'd call that accessible. So my vision for wanting to enforce a bit of accessibility on the web is narrow(?), but no one wants to move forward with the most simple of modifications to make it easier to implement accessibility. The most basic of things to do would be to update the JavaDocs for the API to say: NOTE: you should always include an AttributeModifier/Appender (or roll your own implementation) to include the title attribute on every link. here's some examples, etc Or would that be too much bloat as well? Steve On 28 Oct 2008, at 15:35, Martijn Dashorst wrote: There are lots of ways of making accessibility happening, but throwing more arguments to constructors isn't one of 'm. Ever took a short look at DDC? Instead of taking this narrow vision, perhaps start a discussion of how we can make accessibility easy to implement, while not raping our API? Martijn On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 4:23 PM, Steve Swinsburg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I alluded to this in a feature request for a new constructor of the ExternalLink component in the hope that it would start the ball rolling on getting some accessibility happening in the rest of Wicket, but just about everyone that commented said it should not be implemented. https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/WICKET-1878 Wont fix?! Its section 13.1 of the accessibility document! Yes you can add it manually, but you can do many things manually. If the constructor is there it allows people to automatically take advantage of it. If you don't manually add it, you won't get a title on your link. Come on, lets get some accessibility happening. Then we can tout Wicket as being a accessible-by-design as well! Steve On 28 Oct 2008, at 15:07, Nino Saturnino Martinez Vazquez Wael wrote: Of course you should be aware that some components might not be compliant, but I think that's mostly in wicketstuff.. Nino Saturnino Martinez Vazquez Wael wrote: You mean like WAI triple A? http://www.w3.org/WAI/WCAG1AAA-Conformance No it won't break it but it wont enforce it either.. miro wrote: I am new to wicket and want to build web application using wicket, my application should be 508 compliance , so want to know using wicket for any reason can break 508 compliance ? -- -Wicket for love Nino Martinez Wael Java Specialist @ Jayway DK http://www.jayway.dk +45 2936 7684 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Become a Wicket expert, learn from the best: http://wicketinaction.com Apache Wicket 1.3.4 is released Get it now: http://www.apache.org/dyn/closer.cgi/wicket/1.3. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
Re: wicket and 508 compilance
lol ok agreed, DropDownChoice is far over the top, but someone let all those methods get through. Perhaps its time to start rolling some up and deprecating others. And getting some examples happening about how best to use the DropDownChoice component. On 28 Oct 2008, at 15:50, James Carman wrote: DropDownChoice On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 11:48 AM, Steve Swinsburg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What are you referring to when you say DDC? The Dewey Decimal System? Used by pretty much every library around the world making it really easy to find books? I'd call that accessible. So my vision for wanting to enforce a bit of accessibility on the web is narrow(?), but no one wants to move forward with the most simple of modifications to make it easier to implement accessibility. The most basic of things to do would be to update the JavaDocs for the API to say: NOTE: you should always include an AttributeModifier/Appender (or roll your own implementation) to include the title attribute on every link. here's some examples, etc Or would that be too much bloat as well? Steve On 28 Oct 2008, at 15:35, Martijn Dashorst wrote: There are lots of ways of making accessibility happening, but throwing more arguments to constructors isn't one of 'm. Ever took a short look at DDC? Instead of taking this narrow vision, perhaps start a discussion of how we can make accessibility easy to implement, while not raping our API? Martijn On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 4:23 PM, Steve Swinsburg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I alluded to this in a feature request for a new constructor of the ExternalLink component in the hope that it would start the ball rolling on getting some accessibility happening in the rest of Wicket, but just about everyone that commented said it should not be implemented. https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/WICKET-1878 Wont fix?! Its section 13.1 of the accessibility document! Yes you can add it manually, but you can do many things manually. If the constructor is there it allows people to automatically take advantage of it. If you don't manually add it, you won't get a title on your link. Come on, lets get some accessibility happening. Then we can tout Wicket as being a accessible-by-design as well! Steve On 28 Oct 2008, at 15:07, Nino Saturnino Martinez Vazquez Wael wrote: Of course you should be aware that some components might not be compliant, but I think that's mostly in wicketstuff.. Nino Saturnino Martinez Vazquez Wael wrote: You mean like WAI triple A? http://www.w3.org/WAI/WCAG1AAA-Conformance No it won't break it but it wont enforce it either.. miro wrote: I am new to wicket and want to build web application using wicket, my application should be 508 compliance , so want to know using wicket for any reason can break 508 compliance ? -- -Wicket for love Nino Martinez Wael Java Specialist @ Jayway DK http://www.jayway.dk +45 2936 7684 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Become a Wicket expert, learn from the best: http://wicketinaction.com Apache Wicket 1.3.4 is released Get it now: http://www.apache.org/dyn/closer.cgi/wicket/1.3. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
Re: wicket and 508 compilance
DropDownChoice On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 11:48 AM, Steve Swinsburg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What are you referring to when you say DDC? The Dewey Decimal System? Used by pretty much every library around the world making it really easy to find books? I'd call that accessible. So my vision for wanting to enforce a bit of accessibility on the web is narrow(?), but no one wants to move forward with the most simple of modifications to make it easier to implement accessibility. The most basic of things to do would be to update the JavaDocs for the API to say: NOTE: you should always include an AttributeModifier/Appender (or roll your own implementation) to include the title attribute on every link. here's some examples, etc Or would that be too much bloat as well? Steve On 28 Oct 2008, at 15:35, Martijn Dashorst wrote: There are lots of ways of making accessibility happening, but throwing more arguments to constructors isn't one of 'm. Ever took a short look at DDC? Instead of taking this narrow vision, perhaps start a discussion of how we can make accessibility easy to implement, while not raping our API? Martijn On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 4:23 PM, Steve Swinsburg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I alluded to this in a feature request for a new constructor of the ExternalLink component in the hope that it would start the ball rolling on getting some accessibility happening in the rest of Wicket, but just about everyone that commented said it should not be implemented. https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/WICKET-1878 Wont fix?! Its section 13.1 of the accessibility document! Yes you can add it manually, but you can do many things manually. If the constructor is there it allows people to automatically take advantage of it. If you don't manually add it, you won't get a title on your link. Come on, lets get some accessibility happening. Then we can tout Wicket as being a accessible-by-design as well! Steve On 28 Oct 2008, at 15:07, Nino Saturnino Martinez Vazquez Wael wrote: Of course you should be aware that some components might not be compliant, but I think that's mostly in wicketstuff.. Nino Saturnino Martinez Vazquez Wael wrote: You mean like WAI triple A? http://www.w3.org/WAI/WCAG1AAA-Conformance No it won't break it but it wont enforce it either.. miro wrote: I am new to wicket and want to build web application using wicket, my application should be 508 compliance , so want to know using wicket for any reason can break 508 compliance ? -- -Wicket for love Nino Martinez Wael Java Specialist @ Jayway DK http://www.jayway.dk +45 2936 7684 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Become a Wicket expert, learn from the best: http://wicketinaction.com Apache Wicket 1.3.4 is released Get it now: http://www.apache.org/dyn/closer.cgi/wicket/1.3. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: wicket and 508 compilance
On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 4:48 PM, Steve Swinsburg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So my vision for wanting to enforce a bit of accessibility on the web is narrow(?), but no one wants to move forward with the most simple of modifications to make it easier to implement accessibility. The most basic of things to do would be to update the JavaDocs for the API to say: NOTE: you should always include an AttributeModifier/Appender (or roll your own implementation) to include the title attribute on every link. here's some examples, etc Where's your patch then? Martijn - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: wicket and 508 compilance
For the Javadoc? (please stop being so vague!) No worries, I'll do this up and submit it into a general accessibility Javadoc improvement Jira ticket. Steve On 28 Oct 2008, at 15:57, Martijn Dashorst wrote: On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 4:48 PM, Steve Swinsburg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So my vision for wanting to enforce a bit of accessibility on the web is narrow(?), but no one wants to move forward with the most simple of modifications to make it easier to implement accessibility. The most basic of things to do would be to update the JavaDocs for the API to say: NOTE: you should always include an AttributeModifier/Appender (or roll your own implementation) to include the title attribute on every link. here's some examples, etc Where's your patch then? Martijn - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
Re: wicket and 508 compilance
I don't think Martijn is intentionally being vague. DDC is a common abbreviation for DropDownChoice among folks within the Wicket community. As for the request for a patch, that's the best way to get your code suggestions merged into the codebase, providing a patch. Please make sure you include test cases with your patch that exercise the new code. On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 12:02 PM, Steve Swinsburg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For the Javadoc? (please stop being so vague!) No worries, I'll do this up and submit it into a general accessibility Javadoc improvement Jira ticket. Steve On 28 Oct 2008, at 15:57, Martijn Dashorst wrote: On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 4:48 PM, Steve Swinsburg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So my vision for wanting to enforce a bit of accessibility on the web is narrow(?), but no one wants to move forward with the most simple of modifications to make it easier to implement accessibility. The most basic of things to do would be to update the JavaDocs for the API to say: NOTE: you should always include an AttributeModifier/Appender (or roll your own implementation) to include the title attribute on every link. here's some examples, etc Where's your patch then? Martijn - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: wicket and 508 compilance
Well the last post was unclear about which patch he was referring to (Javadoc or codebase). From the previous discussions, it's clear that a patch for a new constructor won't be considered. I will, however, get some information to extend the Javadocs and submit that. Javadco improvement Jira here: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/WICKET-1899 Interestingly enough, a ticket was created last year to get the ball rolling with accessibility: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/WICKET-982 Steve On 28 Oct 2008, at 16:06, James Carman wrote: I don't think Martijn is intentionally being vague. DDC is a common abbreviation for DropDownChoice among folks within the Wicket community. As for the request for a patch, that's the best way to get your code suggestions merged into the codebase, providing a patch. Please make sure you include test cases with your patch that exercise the new code. On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 12:02 PM, Steve Swinsburg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For the Javadoc? (please stop being so vague!) No worries, I'll do this up and submit it into a general accessibility Javadoc improvement Jira ticket. Steve On 28 Oct 2008, at 15:57, Martijn Dashorst wrote: On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 4:48 PM, Steve Swinsburg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So my vision for wanting to enforce a bit of accessibility on the web is narrow(?), but no one wants to move forward with the most simple of modifications to make it easier to implement accessibility. The most basic of things to do would be to update the JavaDocs for the API to say: NOTE: you should always include an AttributeModifier/Appender (or roll your own implementation) to include the title attribute on every link. here's some examples, etc Where's your patch then? Martijn - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
Re: wicket and 508 compilance
both 1899 and 982 are pretty friggin vague :) how often are link titles dynamic? i am thinking not very often at all, so why add another imodel slot to make the component event bigger for a small percantage of usecases. in most cases a wicket:id=external-link title= wicket:message=title:key-to-title../a works just fine for internationalization. for the very few times where you do need a dynamic title you can use an attribute appender or subclass externallink and write a trivial implementation. we try to keep the core components with as small a footprint as possible, but we also make them pretty damn trivial to extend. -igor On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 9:15 AM, Steve Swinsburg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well the last post was unclear about which patch he was referring to (Javadoc or codebase). From the previous discussions, it's clear that a patch for a new constructor won't be considered. I will, however, get some information to extend the Javadocs and submit that. Javadco improvement Jira here: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/WICKET-1899 Interestingly enough, a ticket was created last year to get the ball rolling with accessibility: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/WICKET-982 Steve On 28 Oct 2008, at 16:06, James Carman wrote: I don't think Martijn is intentionally being vague. DDC is a common abbreviation for DropDownChoice among folks within the Wicket community. As for the request for a patch, that's the best way to get your code suggestions merged into the codebase, providing a patch. Please make sure you include test cases with your patch that exercise the new code. On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 12:02 PM, Steve Swinsburg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For the Javadoc? (please stop being so vague!) No worries, I'll do this up and submit it into a general accessibility Javadoc improvement Jira ticket. Steve On 28 Oct 2008, at 15:57, Martijn Dashorst wrote: On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 4:48 PM, Steve Swinsburg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So my vision for wanting to enforce a bit of accessibility on the web is narrow(?), but no one wants to move forward with the most simple of modifications to make it easier to implement accessibility. The most basic of things to do would be to update the JavaDocs for the API to say: NOTE: you should always include an AttributeModifier/Appender (or roll your own implementation) to include the title attribute on every link. here's some examples, etc Where's your patch then? Martijn - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: wicket and 508 compilance
i also dont want to have another constructor with that title parameter But if there are a certain amount of components that could use something for accessibility then i am more for just a method setTitle(IModel model) or something like that johan On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 5:15 PM, Steve Swinsburg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well the last post was unclear about which patch he was referring to (Javadoc or codebase). From the previous discussions, it's clear that a patch for a new constructor won't be considered. I will, however, get some information to extend the Javadocs and submit that. Javadco improvement Jira here: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/WICKET-1899 Interestingly enough, a ticket was created last year to get the ball rolling with accessibility: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/WICKET-982 Steve On 28 Oct 2008, at 16:06, James Carman wrote: I don't think Martijn is intentionally being vague. DDC is a common abbreviation for DropDownChoice among folks within the Wicket community. As for the request for a patch, that's the best way to get your code suggestions merged into the codebase, providing a patch. Please make sure you include test cases with your patch that exercise the new code. On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 12:02 PM, Steve Swinsburg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For the Javadoc? (please stop being so vague!) No worries, I'll do this up and submit it into a general accessibility Javadoc improvement Jira ticket. Steve On 28 Oct 2008, at 15:57, Martijn Dashorst wrote: On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 4:48 PM, Steve Swinsburg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So my vision for wanting to enforce a bit of accessibility on the web is narrow(?), but no one wants to move forward with the most simple of modifications to make it easier to implement accessibility. The most basic of things to do would be to update the JavaDocs for the API to say: NOTE: you should always include an AttributeModifier/Appender (or roll your own implementation) to include the title attribute on every link. here's some examples, etc Where's your patch then? Martijn - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: wicket and 508 compilance
I don't understand why you keep insisting that a title attribute should always be included in an anchor. In most cases the text within the anchor tag is enough information for what the purpose of the link is, certainly if you think a minute about that text. In such cases a title attribute will just confuse users with an overload of unnecessary information. Which by the way is especially irritating for users that use screenreaders. Yes some accessibility guideline checkers will generate warnings or errors if you omit the title tag, but what do they know, they are just stupid programs. On Tue, 28 Oct 2008 16:15:12 +, Steve Swinsburg [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Well the last post was unclear about which patch he was referring to (Javadoc or codebase). From the previous discussions, it's clear that a patch for a new constructor won't be considered. I will, however, get some information to extend the Javadocs and submit that. Javadco improvement Jira here: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/WICKET-1899 Interestingly enough, a ticket was created last year to get the ball rolling with accessibility: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/WICKET-982 Steve On 28 Oct 2008, at 16:06, James Carman wrote: I don't think Martijn is intentionally being vague. DDC is a common abbreviation for DropDownChoice among folks within the Wicket community. As for the request for a patch, that's the best way to get your code suggestions merged into the codebase, providing a patch. Please make sure you include test cases with your patch that exercise the new code. On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 12:02 PM, Steve Swinsburg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For the Javadoc? (please stop being so vague!) No worries, I'll do this up and submit it into a general accessibility Javadoc improvement Jira ticket. Steve On 28 Oct 2008, at 15:57, Martijn Dashorst wrote: On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 4:48 PM, Steve Swinsburg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So my vision for wanting to enforce a bit of accessibility on the web is narrow(?), but no one wants to move forward with the most simple of modifications to make it easier to implement accessibility. The most basic of things to do would be to update the JavaDocs for the API to say: NOTE: you should always include an AttributeModifier/Appender (or roll your own implementation) to include the title attribute on every link. here's some examples, etc Where's your patch then? Martijn - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
