Re: [xwiki-users] What is the XWiki equivalent of Mediawiki categories and embed?
On Thu, Nov 26, 2015 at 9:17 PM, Anton Hughes wrote:
> On 26 November 2015 at 19:38, vinc...@massol.net
> wrote:
>
> > > > Give us the full name of your 2 pages and we can show you what to
> use.
> > > http://localhost:8080/xwiki/bin/view/test/
> > > http://localhost:8080/xwiki/bin/view/MyExamplePage/
> >
> > These 2 pages are not relative to each other.
> >
> Ok, now Im confused. Ive been doing web development for more years than I
> care to count, and relative, to me, means 'they are next to each other'.
> See http://www.scriptingmaster.com/html/relative-link.asp
>
> These two pages sit next to each other in the same tree.
>
>
> >
> > In MyExamplePage, you’d need to write:
> >
> > {{include reference=“test.WebHome”/}}
> >
> What is WebHome? And why do I need this when I am referencing relative
> document?
>
> >
> > Note that it seems we have a bug (not related to your example above, just
> > mentioning it for completeness); I’ve just created
> > http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-12861 for it.
> >
> > Now to understand what this “WebHome” does here is a bit complex.
> Starting
> > with XWiki 7.2 we’re moving from a Page/Space paradigm to a Nested Pages
> > one and this is currently causing some friction to understand it for
> > newcomers. I’m not sure how we’re going to handle this (except that at
> some
> > point we’ll need to rewrite our model to remove the concept of spaces
> > probably).
> >
> > Does that help:
> >
> http://platform.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Features/ContentOrganization#HHistory
> > ?
> >
> Yes it does - thanks. But, I think you have given it the wrong name. If I
> am not wrong, this is just a tree structure. Not nested.
>
> >
> > @devs:
> > I think we need some better explanation. Maybe you can help tune the doc.
> > I think we need a documentation page on xwiki.org to explain what is a
> > Page Reference. On
> > http://rendering.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Main/XWikiSyntax#HLinks we
> > explain it as: "A wiki page reference in the form [[wikiName:] space.]
> > (page). Examples: WebHome, Main.WebHome, mywiki:Main.WebHome”. However I
> > think we should instead link to that page about Page Reference, and
> explain
> > why you have to use something a bit different from what you see in the
> UI.
> >
>
> I think adding more documentation will help. But - IMO - there is a
> fundamental design flaw. You have built XWiki to use a tree structure of
> documents. And documents MUST be referenced using the tree structure.
> Compare this to Mediawiki where all you need to know is the doucment name,
> eg, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korea_Medal_(South_Africa). This simple
> concept is enough for millions of wikipedia documents. Wikipedia documents
> can be any number of categories - and this does not affect how they are
> referenced.
>
> Again, IMO, the tree structure is something that early CMSs introduced, as
> it basically replicates the file system in an OS. Wikis improved on this
> by realizing that:
>
>- documents often need to be in multiple categories
>- users tend to want to find a specific document by name only
>
>
> When the unique id of a document is the document name you then have:
>
>- more friendly urls - wiki/my_document
>
Whether you have "wiki/my_document" or "wiki/my/document" it's the same
thing conceptually. Both "my_document" and "my/document" are page
identifiers. You used '_' to namespace your page, I used '/'. Sooner or
later we all have to deal with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name_collision
. In XWiki you can avoid name collisions using both
"Korea_Medal_(South_Africa)" and "Korea Medal/South Africa" (or "South
Africa/Korea Medal"). I prefer the latter.
- more flexibility on how documents are organized - a document could be
>in more than one 'folder' at a time.
>- easier to link to documents
>
>
>
>
> --
> Anton Hughes
> ___
> users mailing list
> users@xwiki.org
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>
___
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Re: [xwiki-users] What is the XWiki equivalent of Mediawiki categories and embed?
On 26 Nov 2015 at 20:17:54, Anton Hughes
(a...@tradeworks.io(mailto:a...@tradeworks.io)) wrote:
>
> On 26 November 2015 at 19:38, vinc...@massol.net(mailto:vinc...@massol.net)
> wrote:
> > > > Give us the full name of your 2 pages and we can show you what to use.
> > > http://localhost:8080/xwiki/bin/view/test/
> > > http://localhost:8080/xwiki/bin/view/MyExamplePage/
> >
> > These 2 pages are not relative to each other.
> Ok, now Im confused. Ive been doing web development for more years than I
> care to count, and relative, to me, means 'they are next to each other'. See
> http://www.scriptingmaster.com/html/relative-link.asp
>
> These two pages sit next to each other in the same tree.
The root of the reference is the path starting after “view”. So you have:
[root]
|_ test
|_ WebHome
|_ MyExamplePage
|_ WebHome
As you can see, both WebHome are not relative to each other. As I mentioned the
hard part is in understanding this WebHome (the name of the page) from which
we’re transitioning from.
To be clear, in this example:
* Space: test, Page: WebHome
* Space: MyExamplePage, Page: WebHome
> > In MyExamplePage, you’d need to write:
> >
> > {{include reference=“test.WebHome”/}}
> What is WebHome? And why do I need this when I am referencing relative
> document?
Yeah I know, hard to understand ATM since XWiki 7.2. See my previous answer for
details.
> > Note that it seems we have a bug (not related to your example above, just
> > mentioning it for completeness); I’ve just created
> > http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-12861 for it.
> >
> > Now to understand what this “WebHome” does here is a bit complex. Starting
> > with XWiki 7.2 we’re moving from a Page/Space paradigm to a Nested Pages
> > one and this is currently causing some friction to understand it for
> > newcomers. I’m not sure how we’re going to handle this (except that at some
> > point we’ll need to rewrite our model to remove the concept of spaces
> > probably).
> >
> > Does that help:
> > http://platform.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Features/ContentOrganization#HHistory
> > ?
> Yes it does - thanks. But, I think you have given it the wrong name. If I am
> not wrong, this is just a tree structure. Not nested.
> >
> > @devs:
> > I think we need some better explanation. Maybe you can help tune the doc. I
> > think we need a documentation page on xwiki.org(http://xwiki.org) to
> > explain what is a Page Reference. On
> > http://rendering.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Main/XWikiSyntax#HLinks we
> > explain it as: "A wiki page reference in the form [[wikiName:] space.]
> > (page). Examples: WebHome, Main.WebHome, mywiki:Main.WebHome”. However I
> > think we should instead link to that page about Page Reference, and explain
> > why you have to use something a bit different from what you see in the UI.
>
> I think adding more documentation will help. But - IMO - there is a
> fundamental design flaw. You have built XWiki to use a tree structure of
> documents. And documents MUST be referenced using the tree structure. Compare
> this to Mediawiki where all you need to know is the doucment name, eg,
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korea_Medal_(South_Africa). This simple concept
> is enough for millions of wikipedia documents. Wikipedia documents can be any
> number of categories - and this does not affect how they are referenced.
If you want to root all your wiki pages under a single space in XWiki, feel
free to do it. That will work :) But please consider that thousands of xwiki
users don’t want to do that and that’s why we’ve created the
(sub)Wiki>Space>Page hierarchy in the past (and the parent/child one too) and
since even that wasn’t enough for our users we’re now moving to Nested Pages.
> Again, IMO, the tree structure is something that early CMSs introduced, as it
> basically replicates the file system in an OS. Wikis improved on this by
> realizing that:
> documents often need to be in multiple categories
> users tend to want to find a specific document by name only
> When the unique id of a document is the document name you then have:
That was true 20 years ago when wikis started :) Since then, they’ve learnt
that it’s not enough for users for organizing their content. Users want the
same concept as what they have in their computers i.e. folders and files.
> more friendly urls - wiki/my_document
> more flexibility on how documents are organized - a document could be in more
> than one 'folder' at a time.
XWiki has tags for this as I already mentioned.
> easier to link to documents
Your choice as a user. Again, you can decide to put all your content in a
single space if that’s what you want but I can easily bet that you users would
not like you… :)
Thanks
-Vincent
> Anton Hughes
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Re: [xwiki-users] What is the XWiki equivalent of Mediawiki categories and embed?
On 26 November 2015 at 19:38, vinc...@massol.net wrote:
> > > Give us the full name of your 2 pages and we can show you what to use.
> > http://localhost:8080/xwiki/bin/view/test/
> > http://localhost:8080/xwiki/bin/view/MyExamplePage/
>
> These 2 pages are not relative to each other.
>
Ok, now Im confused. Ive been doing web development for more years than I
care to count, and relative, to me, means 'they are next to each other'.
See http://www.scriptingmaster.com/html/relative-link.asp
These two pages sit next to each other in the same tree.
>
> In MyExamplePage, you’d need to write:
>
> {{include reference=“test.WebHome”/}}
>
What is WebHome? And why do I need this when I am referencing relative
document?
>
> Note that it seems we have a bug (not related to your example above, just
> mentioning it for completeness); I’ve just created
> http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-12861 for it.
>
> Now to understand what this “WebHome” does here is a bit complex. Starting
> with XWiki 7.2 we’re moving from a Page/Space paradigm to a Nested Pages
> one and this is currently causing some friction to understand it for
> newcomers. I’m not sure how we’re going to handle this (except that at some
> point we’ll need to rewrite our model to remove the concept of spaces
> probably).
>
> Does that help:
> http://platform.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Features/ContentOrganization#HHistory
> ?
>
Yes it does - thanks. But, I think you have given it the wrong name. If I
am not wrong, this is just a tree structure. Not nested.
>
> @devs:
> I think we need some better explanation. Maybe you can help tune the doc.
> I think we need a documentation page on xwiki.org to explain what is a
> Page Reference. On
> http://rendering.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Main/XWikiSyntax#HLinks we
> explain it as: "A wiki page reference in the form [[wikiName:] space.]
> (page). Examples: WebHome, Main.WebHome, mywiki:Main.WebHome”. However I
> think we should instead link to that page about Page Reference, and explain
> why you have to use something a bit different from what you see in the UI.
>
I think adding more documentation will help. But - IMO - there is a
fundamental design flaw. You have built XWiki to use a tree structure of
documents. And documents MUST be referenced using the tree structure.
Compare this to Mediawiki where all you need to know is the doucment name,
eg, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korea_Medal_(South_Africa). This simple
concept is enough for millions of wikipedia documents. Wikipedia documents
can be any number of categories - and this does not affect how they are
referenced.
Again, IMO, the tree structure is something that early CMSs introduced, as
it basically replicates the file system in an OS. Wikis improved on this
by realizing that:
- documents often need to be in multiple categories
- users tend to want to find a specific document by name only
When the unique id of a document is the document name you then have:
- more friendly urls - wiki/my_document
- more flexibility on how documents are organized - a document could be
in more than one 'folder' at a time.
- easier to link to documents
--
Anton Hughes
___
users mailing list
users@xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Re: [xwiki-users] What is the XWiki equivalent of Mediawiki categories and embed?
On 26 Nov 2015 at 19:11:37, Anton Hughes
(a...@tradeworks.io(mailto:a...@tradeworks.io)) wrote:
>
> On 26 November 2015 at 19:02, vinc...@massol.net(mailto:vinc...@massol.net)
> wrote:
> > You need a reference that is either absolute or relative to the current
> > page where the macro is used.
> Agh - so its not possible to reference just a page - I also need to reference
> the space/category.
> I think this is a really bad design. In the Mediawiki world you just need to
> know the name of the document. Which category it is in is not required.
>
> I assume then, that if I move MyExamplePage to a new space(?)/category it
> will break the pages where I have the includes/displays.
Indeed right now we don’t rename references used in Macro parameters upon
rename. We do rename backlinks though (references in links).
> > Give us the full name of your 2 pages and we can show you what to use.
> http://localhost:8080/xwiki/bin/view/test/
> http://localhost:8080/xwiki/bin/view/MyExamplePage/
These 2 pages are not relative to each other.
In MyExamplePage, you’d need to write:
{{include reference=“test.WebHome”/}}
Note that it seems we have a bug (not related to your example above, just
mentioning it for completeness); I’ve just created
http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-12861 for it.
Now to understand what this “WebHome” does here is a bit complex. Starting with
XWiki 7.2 we’re moving from a Page/Space paradigm to a Nested Pages one and
this is currently causing some friction to understand it for newcomers. I’m not
sure how we’re going to handle this (except that at some point we’ll need to
rewrite our model to remove the concept of spaces probably).
Does that help:
http://platform.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Features/ContentOrganization#HHistory ?
@devs:
I think we need some better explanation. Maybe you can help tune the doc. I
think we need a documentation page on xwiki.org to explain what is a Page
Reference. On http://rendering.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Main/XWikiSyntax#HLinks
we explain it as: "A wiki page reference in the form [[wikiName:] space.]
(page). Examples: WebHome, Main.WebHome, mywiki:Main.WebHome”. However I think
we should instead link to that page about Page Reference, and explain why you
have to use something a bit different from what you see in the UI.
Thanks
-Vincent
> Anton Hughes
___
users mailing list
users@xwiki.org
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Re: [xwiki-users] What is the XWiki equivalent of Mediawiki categories and embed?
On 26 November 2015 at 19:02, vinc...@massol.net wrote: > You need a reference that is either absolute or relative to the current > page where the macro is used. > Agh - so its not possible to reference just a page - I also need to reference the space/category. I think this is a really bad design. In the Mediawiki world you just need to know the name of the document. Which category it is in is not required. I assume then, that if I move MyExamplePage to a new space(?)/category it will break the pages where I have the includes/displays. Give us the full name of your 2 pages and we can show you what to use. > http://localhost:8080/xwiki/bin/view/test/ http://localhost:8080/xwiki/bin/view/MyExamplePage/ -- Anton Hughes ___ users mailing list users@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Re: [xwiki-users] What is the XWiki equivalent of Mediawiki categories and embed?
On 26 Nov 2015 at 18:54:35, Anton Hughes
(a...@tradeworks.io(mailto:a...@tradeworks.io)) wrote:
>
> On 26 November 2015 at 18:31, vinc...@massol.net(mailto:vinc...@massol.net)
> wrote:
> > See:
> > * http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Include+Macro
> > * http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Display+Macro
>
>
>
> Thanks Vincent
>
> I have tried both of the above, and get no results - and no errors either.
> I have a page called MyExamplePage, and then, in another page, I add:
> {{include reference="MyExamplePage"/}}
> {{display reference="MyExamplePage"/}}
>
> Do I need to have the full path in reference? I would hope not, as I would
> expect the wiki to take care of this.
>
> I am used to working in Mediawiki, where typically all documents sit on the
> root, and can be linked and referenced simply by the name of the document,
> and structure of the content (categories) does not affect linking (generally,
> unless it is in another namespace).
You need a reference that is either absolute or relative to the current page
where the macro is used.
Give us the full name of your 2 pages and we can show you what to use.
Thanks
-Vincent
> Anton Hughes
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users mailing list
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Re: [xwiki-users] What is the XWiki equivalent of Mediawiki categories and embed?
On 26 November 2015 at 18:31, vinc...@massol.net wrote:
> See:
> * http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Include+Macro
> * http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Display+Macro
>
Thanks Vincent
I have tried both of the above, and get no results - and no errors either.
I have a page called MyExamplePage, and then, in another page, I add:
{{include reference="MyExamplePage"/}}
{{display reference="MyExamplePage"/}}
Do I need to have the full path in reference? I would hope not, as I would
expect the wiki to take care of this.
I am used to working in Mediawiki, where typically all documents sit on the
root, and can be linked and referenced simply by the name of the document,
and structure of the content (categories) does not affect linking
(generally, unless it is in another namespace).
--
Anton Hughes
___
users mailing list
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Re: [xwiki-users] What is the XWiki equivalent of Mediawiki categories and embed?
Hi Anton, On 26 Nov 2015 at 18:26:58, Anton Hughes (a...@tradeworks.io(mailto:a...@tradeworks.io)) wrote: > Hello > > In a Mediawiki page, a user can added [[category:my category]], and the > page will be accessible from the 'my category' category. The same page can > be added to many categories. > > The nested page concept seems to be hierarchical only, so a page belongs in > a tree, but cannot therefore be in other trees. I think this is similar to tags: http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Tag+Application > Also, in Mediawiki, there is the possibility ( > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Embed_page) to embed pages ? I have > tried using the mediawiki syntax for this but it does not seem to work. See: * http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Include+Macro * http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Display+Macro Thanks -Vincent > Anton Hughes ___ users mailing list users@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
