Re: [xwiki-users] XWiki Logo Challenge, Round 2
On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 21:19, Sergiu Dumitriu ser...@xwiki.com wrote: Hello Community, The search for the XWiki.org logo isn't over yet... The second round of votes finished, with the following results: +9 for 4 +4 for 12 (I counted Thibaut's +1 for 12A as a +1 for 12) +1 for 15 +14 for 16 +1 for 19 Normally, 16 would be the winner, but since several key members of the community objected to it, I see three ways to proceed: 1. Declare 16 as the elected logo, but further improve it to soften the objections 2. Start a third round between improved version of 4 and 16 3. Slow down a bit, since there's no hard deadline to meet, and start all over, accepting new proposals I don't have anything against 16 and i voted for 4 so I'm ok with 1. and 2. but i think i would prefer 3. since i have the feeling all this was rushed too much (really just a feeling i don't have strong arguments). I for one would go for option 1, if Vincent, Ludovic, Guillaume, Fabio agree. On 04/08/2010 06:02 PM, Sergiu Dumitriu wrote: Hello XWiki Community, We're still looking for the new XWiki.org logo. First of all, many thanks to all those who submitted their ideas ( http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/Community/LogoChallenge ). After the first round of votes (digest here: http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0Ah6DqXzfHT2vdHV5Ty1LX3lKU3U5V3M4YmNFSXEzcVEhl=en), we chose 6 popular proposals for the second round: http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/Community/LogoChallengeRound2 . The authors of these proposals were asked to do the following, if not already done for round 1: * try to integrate any constructive feedback that came with the votes (a digest of the feedback from the emails is available for each proposal on http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/Community/LogoChallengeRound2 ) * polish the design (if they consider it necessary) * provide the requested variations for .org, enterprise and office * provide samples for light and dark background * provide a blackwhite version * provide a 16X16 icon containing the logo or a representative part of the logo * provide a nice Powered by XWiki button that goes with the logo * provide a mockup/screenshot with the logo used in the current skin, colibri For most of the finalist logos, the _final_ versions were already uploaded here: http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/Community/LogoChallengeRound2 . For those who were not updated, we will use the initial submissions for round 2 as well, and voters will have to use their imagination in case any of the required use cases is missing. VOTING: You can send your vote on the mailing list (d...@xwiki.org or users@xwiki.org), in reply to this email. No twitter votes this time. Each voter can grant a whole +1 to only one of the 6 finalists ( http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/Community/LogoChallengeRound2#HFinalistproposals ). IMPORTANT: Before choosing a logo based on your personal preference, please try to also ask yourself the following questions: * Is it distinctive? Note that it should not resemble other logos, including the XWiki SAS/xwiki.com logo. * Is it easy to remember and recognize? * Does it blend in smoothly with the Colibri skin? With the new XWiki.org skin? Note that adjustments to the skin is possible, in order to better integrate with the logo. * Is the design scalable? Could it (or parts of it) be successfully used in a 16X16 icon? Would it look good on a very large poster? * Can it be used (as it is, or adapted) on both light and dark backgrounds? * What would it look like in black and white (not just grayscale)? It's ok if some details are lost, but it needs to still look attractive and keep the main features. TIMELINE: 08/Apr/10 : Beginning of second round of votes on d...@xwiki.org, users@xwiki.org 11/Apr/10 : End of votes Thanks, -- Sergiu Dumitriu http://purl.org/net/sergiu/ ___ users mailing list users@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users -- Thomas Mortagne ___ users mailing list users@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Re: [xwiki-users] XWiki Logo Challenge, Round 2
How does it look with different colors (XWiki's green, orange, red, blue) for each bubble? Thanks, Marius Dan Grigore wrote: http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Community/LogoChallengeRound2/xwikiroundedalt.png speech bubbles, negative space X ___ users mailing list users@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users ___ users mailing list users@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Re: [xwiki-users] XWiki Logo Challenge, Round 2
Marius Dumitru Florea wrote: How does it look with different colors (XWiki's green, orange, red, blue) for each bubble? Thanks, Marius Dan Grigore wrote: http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Community/LogoChallengeRound2/xwikiroundedalt.png speech bubbles, negative space X ___ users mailing list users@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users ___ users mailing list users@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users It looks pretty good, I tried some versions, but it reminds everybody I showed it to of the Windows logo. I'll have to work more on the shapes or find an alternative way of depicting an X in the negative space by using more than 4 shapes. ' ___ users mailing list users@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Re: [xwiki-users] XWiki Logo Challenge, Round 2
I've been analyzing the proposed logos, gathered feedback, read logo design articles, and here's what I think so far. A logo should be rather abstract than metaphoric. Trying to say too much in a logo makes a bad logo. Most famous examples are very simple, and say nothing about what the brand does: Adidas, Nike, MasterCard, The North Face, FedEx, ATT, Sun, Oracle... Yet, everybody recognizes the Nike logo. There are three main characteristics of a logo: memorability, simplicity, cleverness. There's a tight connection between memorability and simplicity. The cleverness can sometimes harm the other two, if pushed too far. Having metaphors and product description embedded in a logo most of the times thrashes the logo. So, IMO this adds negative points to logos 4 and 15. Another problem with metaphors is that the metaphor might not be the perfect one, and even if it is initially, the brand evolves in time, so the metaphor would actually harm even more the logo and the brand. It was interesting to see two opposite opinions expressed about the proposed logos: Too unstructured, thus not really suited for XWiki, and Too regular/rigid, thus not appealing enough. This is an example of the two different types of people, more logical/technical and more emotional/artistic people. It's a classic psychological test, showing two drawings, one made of lines and one made of curves, and asking which one is better. When the left part of the brain is dominant, the straight lines are more appealing, and vice-versa. It's impossible to make either a straight or a wobbly logo that would satisfy everybody, so this is not a valid argument for choosing a logo on its own. Still, this becomes relevant when thinking about what is the main intended audience for the XWiki logo: technical or non-technical persons? To answer this, we need to answer another question: where will the logo be seen? IMO, mostly on xwiki.org. Actual XE installations will probably have a custom logo, one representing the institution using XWiki. What will be seen on these custom sites is the Powered By button, so this is a good reason to make it visible and recognizable. So, who comes on xwiki.org? Technical or non-technical persons? I'd say mostly technical persons, developers looking for the dev guide, admins looking for the admin guide, IT procurement staff looking for a wiki. Looking on the (users) mailing list and the FAQs, most users ask non-user questions, meaning that I've rarely seen questions like how to insert a table or how do I change my password. Thus, I think that a more rigid, abstract logo is better for xwiki.org and its intended audience, adding negative points to 12, 15 and 19. If we want XWiki to look like a valid option for using in an enterprise, the logo should be technical, straight, structured. And IMO 16 is the most structured proposal. Now, what do I think about each logo: 4 is metaphoric: nice collaboration, writing documents together, appealing colors. Unfortunately, this is not the right metaphor. The colored pencils hint more at a drawing application than at an application development framework. And while the colors are nice, the logo doesn't look serious enough for an enterprise application. But I think that this would be a good starting point for a logo for the WYSIWYG editor, once it's completely independent to deserve its own logo, and has realtime capabilities. 12 is a bit familiar, abstract, and curvy enough to be a 2.0 logo. The feedback I got is that this is the best friendly proposal, but it doesn't inspire credibility. 15 is too metaphoric, and the revised version actually lost some of the most appreciated features in the first round: happiness, X + W. Now it's just an anthropomorphic shape, which is so common in logos, and which doesn't help differentiate XWiki from other brands. One person said that it looks like a good mascot for a sports event, but not for an enterprise application. 16 is indeed the most abstract and individualistic logo. I like the straight shape because it has less angles, thus more structure. I don't think that it should be readable, so I don't agree that this is an eliminatory criterion. All the other logos except 4 have this problem, since the shape for X does not always suggest that it's part of the name, as in XWiki, so more like the wiki with an X-shaped logo. Even the .com logo has this problem, since it really causes confusion with Xwiki (lowercase w, since X is the only one bolder), or X-wiki (since the dash between X and W can be read as a real dash). Plus, unlike real brands that are seen in stores, our logo will mostly be seen on the web, right under the URL. It's not like people see it somewhere on the street and wonder what it means, without any means of finding out. If it's in a web page, it has a link nearby, and links still use real letters. 19 has only one strong point: the font used for WIKI. The shape
Re: [xwiki-users] XWiki Logo Challenge, Round 2
Agree that small icon for http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Community/LogoChallengeRound2/final1.png looks good, but for bigger sizes it looks for me as squirrel with flightskin :-) Therefore I choose 16 with straight W as it seems more ordered. http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Community/LogoChallengeRound2/16-default-straight.png Valdis ___ users mailing list users@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Re: [xwiki-users] XWiki Logo Challenge, Round 2
Since the original 15 were my preferred but the review has nothing to do with the original one and is now closer to existing logos, since my second choice 19 has not been review and integrated and that 12E is definitively nice but too close to the original logo, the match is between 4A and 16B for me. Both have been improved well, especially 4A, and both could do, except that I do not found the small icon and the powered by one really nice or readable. Since I had to choose only one, I have finally preferred the technicality of 16B slanted and its different versions for each products, over the color pencils of 4A, that evoke for me, drawings, children and games, ideas being not the initial purpose of XWiki :-) +1 for 16B Great jobs guys for these proposals, many thanks, Denis On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 19:33, Trevor Russ tr.w...@telus.net wrote: Ah, it could just be due to the printscreen of a quick SVG. The powered by buttons were unreadable to the point where if I didn't know what their intent was, I wouldn't know what they were other than coloured blobs with some white writing. I presume the final versions would be large enough to be legible. Zooming in on the screenshots show them up better, and while I like the full XWiki logo, I find the Icon and Button X part to be a little thin/weak and maybe spread out. I don't know how else to describe it. What I really like about 16B is the different logos for .org, Enterprise, and Office. Trevor On Fri, 09 Apr 2010 16:31:34 +0200 Sergiu Dumitriu wrote: On 04/09/2010 04:03 PM, Trevor Russ wrote: +1 16B. Although I found the powered by buttons for most submissions (including 16) to be almost unreadable. Any hints on how to improve it? What exactly is wrong? Note that the buttons are not completely polished yet, this is just a printscreen of a quick SVG. Trevor ___ users mailing list users@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users -- Denis Gervalle SOFTEC sa - CEO eGuilde sarl - CTO ___ users mailing list users@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Re: [xwiki-users] XWiki Logo Challenge, Round 2
+1 16B. Although I found the powered by buttons for *most* submissions (including 16) to be almost unreadable. Trevor On Thu, 08 Apr 2010 18:02:34 +0200 Sergiu Dumitriu wrote: Hello XWiki Community, We're still looking for the new XWiki.org logo. First of all, many ___ users mailing list users@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Re: [xwiki-users] XWiki Logo Challenge, Round 2
On 04/09/2010 04:03 PM, Trevor Russ wrote: +1 16B. Although I found the powered by buttons for *most* submissions (including 16) to be almost unreadable. Any hints on how to improve it? What exactly is wrong? Note that the buttons are not completely polished yet, this is just a printscreen of a quick SVG. Trevor -- Sergiu Dumitriu http://purl.org/net/sergiu/ ___ users mailing list users@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Re: [xwiki-users] XWiki Logo Challenge, Round 2
+1 for the 16B I think the straight W is more easy to read, and it is very distinctive. Maxime ___ users mailing list users@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Re: [xwiki-users] XWiki Logo Challenge, Round 2
Hi everybody! I would like to regain access to this list by voting here. Thanks for the chance. With a brand new hat, but still Ricardo! * +1 for number 19 * Even though I would encourage the author/s to develop and show us integration with Colibri, mockups and so on, so forth! I am not a graphic designer, but asymmetry or apparent lack of internal structure is not handicap for me. XWiki is intended to help to evolve contents with an apparent lack of structure to structured, even semantically structured, ones! Greetings, Ricardo -- Ricardo Rodríguez CTO eBiotic. Life Sciences, Data Modeling and Information Management Systems ___ users mailing list users@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Re: [xwiki-users] XWiki Logo Challenge, Round 2
+1 12E Caleb Sergiu Dumitriu wrote: Hello XWiki Community, We're still looking for the new XWiki.org logo. First of all, many thanks to all those who submitted their ideas ( http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/Community/LogoChallenge ). After the first round of votes (digest here: http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0Ah6DqXzfHT2vdHV5Ty1LX3lKU3U5V3M4YmNFSXEzcVEhl=en), we chose 6 popular proposals for the second round: http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/Community/LogoChallengeRound2 . The authors of these proposals were asked to do the following, if not already done for round 1: * try to integrate any constructive feedback that came with the votes (a digest of the feedback from the emails is available for each proposal on http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/Community/LogoChallengeRound2 ) * polish the design (if they consider it necessary) * provide the requested variations for .org, enterprise and office * provide samples for light and dark background * provide a blackwhite version * provide a 16X16 icon containing the logo or a representative part of the logo * provide a nice Powered by XWiki button that goes with the logo * provide a mockup/screenshot with the logo used in the current skin, colibri For most of the finalist logos, the _final_ versions were already uploaded here: http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/Community/LogoChallengeRound2 . For those who were not updated, we will use the initial submissions for round 2 as well, and voters will have to use their imagination in case any of the required use cases is missing. VOTING: You can send your vote on the mailing list (d...@xwiki.org or users@xwiki.org), in reply to this email. No twitter votes this time. Each voter can grant a whole +1 to only one of the 6 finalists ( http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/Community/LogoChallengeRound2#HFinalistproposals ). IMPORTANT: Before choosing a logo based on your personal preference, please try to also ask yourself the following questions: * Is it distinctive? Note that it should not resemble other logos, including the XWiki SAS/xwiki.com logo. * Is it easy to remember and recognize? * Does it blend in smoothly with the Colibri skin? With the new XWiki.org skin? Note that adjustments to the skin is possible, in order to better integrate with the logo. * Is the design scalable? Could it (or parts of it) be successfully used in a 16X16 icon? Would it look good on a very large poster? * Can it be used (as it is, or adapted) on both light and dark backgrounds? * What would it look like in black and white (not just grayscale)? It's ok if some details are lost, but it needs to still look attractive and keep the main features. TIMELINE: 08/Apr/10 : Beginning of second round of votes on d...@xwiki.org, users@xwiki.org 11/Apr/10 : End of votes Thanks, ___ users mailing list users@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
