Re: [Vala] Forum for Vala/Genie
On Wed, 2009-09-30 at 22:00 +0200, Jiří Zárevúcky wrote: All the important things were said so I'll simply say that I agree with Jan and Michael. We don't need forums and we probably never will. I'd say you're all old farts :) If some people prefer a forum as a mean of communication, so be it. If Vala is to become popular it's not possible to have all users on that mailing-list anyway. Xav ___ Vala-list mailing list Vala-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/vala-list
Re: [Vala] Forum for Vala/Genie
Hi, On Thu, 1 Oct 2009 09:57:12 +0200, Arkadi Viner arkash...@gmail.com wrote: I agree with Xaviar, Vala's community will grow and the mailing list will become really annoying... I think we should have a forum too... I'm also agree! If you are interested, I can host the forum on my server[1]. [1] It's a personnal server, it already host the valaide.org domain. If you have a better domain name, we can point a forum subdomain on my server, by default I donate http://forum.valaide.org for the community: free and without ads! -- Nicolas Joseph ___ Vala-list mailing list Vala-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/vala-list
Re: [Vala] Forum for Vala/Genie
On Thu, Oct 01, 2009 at 09:46:07AM +0200, Xavier Bestel wrote: On Wed, 2009-09-30 at 22:00 +0200, Jiří Zárevúcky wrote: All the important things were said so I'll simply say that I agree with Jan and Michael. We don't need forums and we probably never will. I'd say you're all old farts :) If some people prefer a forum as a mean of communication, so be it. If Vala is to become popular it's not possible to have all users on that mailing-list anyway. I think we just need two separate mailing lists, one for people interested in developing Vala and one for people interested in developing _in_ Vala. Some people might want to follow both lists, and that's perfectly OK. But we absolutely, positively need no stinky forum[1]. [1] Yeah, you can count me among the old farts ;) -- Andrea Bolognani e...@kiyuko.org Resistance is futile, you will be garbage collected. signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Vala-list mailing list Vala-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/vala-list
Re: [Vala] Forum for Vala/Genie
On Thu, 2009-10-01 at 09:46 +0200, Xavier Bestel wrote: I'd say you're all old farts :) I am not! I just prefer things that are used as intended... call me a pedant, but I'm not an old fart. :-P Well, alright, I might be relative to you, but still... ;-) If some people prefer a forum as a mean of communication, so be it. If Vala is to become popular it's not possible to have all users on that mailing-list anyway. It is possible to have a bidirectional feed that enables users to interact with the mailing list as they choose. I'm all for that. But I'm completely against the segregation of resources. And yes, the mailing list will grow upon Vala becoming popular. Growing pains are useful things in a project. If the traffic becomes to heavy on the ML, then it will be time to split the ML into multiple MLs so that each major topic has its own list (or, if someone puts together a front-end, forum. Though I don't know why GMANE isn't useful enough to serve that purpose...). --- Mike -- Blog: http://mike.trausch.us/blog/ Misc. Software: http://mike.trausch.us/software/ “The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark.” —Michelangelo ___ Vala-list mailing list Vala-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/vala-list
[Vala] Forum for Vala/Genie
Hi, I recently learned about the Vala Compiler and I am really amazed about it. Unfortunately there is no place where one can share questions on Vala or Genie but this mailing list. Of course there is nothing wrong with a mailing list but I think there are some people who don't like this kind of thing. They would prefer a forum because the information interchange would be slightly easier. Since I didn't found a forum on Vala, I created one by myself and want to invite you to take part of it. The forum can be found on: http://valac.freeforums.org/ (Yes, it's a free forum hoster but with moderate advertising and who knows? If the forum will be a success we can upgrade ...) So let me know what you think about the idea, if the boards are correct or if there should be anything changed. -- Best wishes, Markus ___ Vala-list mailing list Vala-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/vala-list
Re: [Vala] Forum for Vala/Genie
On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 15:52:48 +0200, Markus Mangold wrote: I recently learned about the Vala Compiler and I am really amazed about it. Unfortunately there is no place where one can share questions on Vala or Genie but this mailing list. And one(1) is exactly the right number of places. The more places to ask questions, the smaller chance of getting response on any particular one. Of course there is nothing wrong with a mailing list but I think there are some people who don't like this kind of thing. They would prefer a forum because the information interchange would be slightly easier. Did you know you can use gmane web interface to interact with the list? Do so at http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.programming.vala On this page, you can choose a frame based interface that resembles mail or news client or a flag blog-like interface that is closer to forums. The interfaces also allow posting, without need for subscription to the list. I can't speak for others, but I would suspect there are many more who would say forum is totally inappropriate, for two (and maybe other) reasons: - No forum out there is known to support threaded discussions the way email does. It would be extremely hard to orient in longer discussions without threading. - Most people use email all the time, so they just do that for vala and whatever other free software project they are involved in too. Having to check various web forums is extra effort and people will quickly stop doing so. As a result, you are likely to soon run out of people providing answers on a forum. Since I didn't found a forum on Vala, I created one by myself and want to invite you to take part of it. The forum can be found on: http://valac.freeforums.org/ (Yes, it's a free forum hoster but with moderate advertising and who knows? If the forum will be a success we can upgrade ...) So let me know what you think about the idea, if the boards are correct or if there should be anything changed. I think the community is not large enough to keep a forum alive in addition to a list. Most open source project only have a list too and even those who have forums still use mailing list for the development discussion. So when vala will have many programmers working in it, there can be a user forum, but for the time being, I really don't think enough knowledgeable people would go there now, because most of them are already on the list -- you know vala is still in heavy development, so even the knowledgeable people come asking how to do stuff now an than. (1) It's not completely true there would be just one place to ask -- there are two places, this list and IRC (#vala on irc.gnome.org) and than there is the wiki (yes, live.gnome.org/Vala is a wiki and even you can edit it if you register) to put documentation to. Regards, Jan -- Jan 'Bulb' Hudec b...@ucw.cz ___ Vala-list mailing list Vala-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/vala-list
Re: [Vala] Forum for Vala/Genie
On Wed, 2009-09-30 at 19:25 +0200, Jan Hudec wrote: On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 15:52:48 +0200, Markus Mangold wrote: I recently learned about the Vala Compiler and I am really amazed about it. Unfortunately there is no place where one can share questions on Vala or Genie but this mailing list. And one(1) is exactly the right number of places. The more places to ask questions, the smaller chance of getting response on any particular one. +1: While I cannot speak for everyone, I know that I don't have the time nor the desire to visit a Web-based forum. I have had to use such things in the past, and I absolutely loathe them (mostly for the reason that they are simply not as flexible as mailing lists or newsgroups). I want things pushed at me, I don't want to go to a list of sites to have to pull them. That said, if the forum were nothing but a wrapper around the mailing list or its Usenet interface provided by GMANE, then it'd just be another front-end for the same thing and I don't care about that. But splitting the support out from the mailing list and into a forum---well, who has time to keep up with both? I don't. I suspect that many others here do not, either. I can't speak for others, but I would suspect there are many more who would say forum is totally inappropriate, for two (and maybe other) reasons: - No forum out there is known to support threaded discussions the way email does. It would be extremely hard to orient in longer discussions without threading. This is one major peeve I have with forums. Most of them actually don't even retain information on who replied to what, when, so threading is impossible. I have heard that forum software has gotten better in this regard since I was last forced to use it, but my mailer software does the job just fine. - Most people use email all the time, so they just do that for vala and whatever other free software project they are involved in too. Having to check various web forums is extra effort and people will quickly stop doing so. As a result, you are likely to soon run out of people providing answers on a forum. Exactly. Since I didn't found a forum on Vala, I created one by myself and want to invite you to take part of it. The forum can be found on: http://valac.freeforums.org/ (Yes, it's a free forum hoster but with moderate advertising and who knows? If the forum will be a success we can upgrade ...) So let me know what you think about the idea, if the boards are correct or if there should be anything changed. I think the community is not large enough to keep a forum alive in addition to a list. Most open source project only have a list too and even those who have forums still use mailing list for the development discussion. So when vala will have many programmers working in it, there can be a user forum, but for the time being, I really don't think enough knowledgeable people would go there now, because most of them are already on the list -- you know vala is still in heavy development, so even the knowledgeable people come asking how to do stuff now an than. I don't think that even then there should be forums, unless they're wrappers around the current (or maybe to-be-grown) setups. For now, we do fine with a single mailing list. Eventually, if Vala is adopted into the mainstream, we (e.g., the community) might think about splitting the mailing list into multiple mailing lists to manage traffic by category, so that people don't have to see the noise that they are not interested in. Perhaps after things become stable and traffic increases, there can be vala-help, vala-devel, and vala-discuss lists or whatever. But to duplicate resources is, I think, a very large mistake. --- Mike -- Blog: http://mike.trausch.us/blog/ Misc. Software: http://mike.trausch.us/software/ “The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark.” —Michelangelo ___ Vala-list mailing list Vala-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/vala-list
