Re: [VFB] Sowbug 2017 - my schedule

[Allan Fish]

Likewise.  Wednesday  ==> Sunday

oder Mitwochs  ===> Sonntag

af

On 3/11/17 7:24 PM, J Balmer wrote:

I'm going to try & get there Wednesday, & return on Sunday.

J

On Sat, March 11, 2017 4:40 am, Rene Zillmann wrote:

Sowbuggers,


I will leave here on Sunday Mar 19th, arrive in Memphis late on this
date (due to the time shift) and simply head to a hotel.

On Monday 20th I will arrive in Mountain home, assuming in the
afternoon. Is anybody else also there at this point in time? Any meeting
place already agreed? fshing?... Tying and lying?

After attending the Sowbug I'll leave on Sunday heading to Hot Springs,
Natchez and return via Memphis.


How are  your plans?


Rene


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Re: [VFB] Sowbug 2017 - my schedule

[J Balmer]

I'm going to try & get there Wednesday, & return on Sunday.

J

On Sat, March 11, 2017 4:40 am, Rene Zillmann wrote:
> Sowbuggers,
>
>
> I will leave here on Sunday Mar 19th, arrive in Memphis late on this
> date (due to the time shift) and simply head to a hotel.
>
> On Monday 20th I will arrive in Mountain home, assuming in the
> afternoon. Is anybody else also there at this point in time? Any meeting
> place already agreed? fshing?... Tying and lying?
>
> After attending the Sowbug I'll leave on Sunday heading to Hot Springs,
> Natchez and return via Memphis.
>
>
> How are  your plans?
>
>
> Rene
>
>
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> --
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Re: [VFB] Sowbug 2017 - my schedule

['Rick Zieger' via VFB Mail]

Glad to be able to see you again.

Rick 

  From: Rene Zillmann 
 To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com 
 Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2017 4:40 AM
 Subject: [VFB] Sowbug 2017 - my schedule
   
Sowbuggers,

I will leave here on Sunday Mar 19th, arrive in Memphis late on this 
date (due to the time shift) and simply head to a hotel.

On Monday 20th I will arrive in Mountain home, assuming in the 
afternoon. Is anybody else also there at this point in time? Any meeting 
place already agreed? fshing?... Tying and lying?

After attending the Sowbug I'll leave on Sunday heading to Hot Springs, 
Natchez and return via Memphis.

How are  your plans?

Rene

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Re: [VFB] Wing Things 2.0 Tips, streamer tips

[DonO]

Rene,

Glad for your ‘stability’ then. ;o)

Good question on the dye color bleed, as you can see the feather colors on my 
blotters.  Whiting’s feathers are color-fast, so I don’t worry about them.  The 
old Chinese necks are not.  Since it takes very hot water to SET dyes, I 
haven’t seen any cross-over from the Chinese to the Whiting hackles.  Even if 
it did, the blend wouldn’t take away anything, since the layered colors are 
intended to blend for the final appeal. 

What does happen is that all shape outlines, curves, etc. are trained to match 
so that the contour of the fly is common and in the shape I want.  So round-tip 
hackles match sharp-tipped hackles.  Shorter layered hackles are more apt to 
stay where I want them. Barred underneath hackles show up better, as the 
‘marry’ gets tighter.

When I want a more dispersed outline for the artistic ‘paint-brushed look’, I 
brush out the wing with an old tooth-brush so that the feathers separate more, 
giving a ‘free-style’ effect. 

Again, this is for tying presentation flies – mine I’ll present in plastic 
foam-backed boxes. 

For commercial streamer-flies by the dozen, it would add to the professional 
presentation to have the hackle curves neatly match. And it’s pretty quick to 
do, and you can re-use the paper towel blotter. Makes a nice photo back-ground.

Fishing a streamer is as much presentation as anything else.  Hence the spey 
rod approach.  Watch the streamer as it ‘swims’ past you. Now you’re seeing 
what the fish sees.  Does the weight of the hook drop it down below the wing? 
Does it swim tilted? Is the head a lot larger than the wing, not fitting the 
contour? All of this can be addressed when tying the fly.   On many I tie the 
two inside hackles with longer brighter hackles so there’s a ‘tail’ out the 
back, and it usually wiggles during the retrieve.

One extra thing is weight.  Streamers are hammered when bit so weight is not an 
issue with the fly itself. There’s no ‘feeling-out’ like with a heavily 
weighted nymph. Lead wrap at the front end of the shank helps the fly dive into 
the pools and deep runs.  And I tie many of my fishing streamers as articulated 
tandems, using the braid over the connection leader to create the long body.  
I’ll also use circle hooks for the rear hook, and sometime cut off the front 
hook altogether.

I’m hoping to have lots of how-to and tying tips on my web site as it develops. 
 

DonO  

From: Rene Zillmann 
Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2017 3:26 AM
To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com 
Subject: Re: [VFB] Wing Things 2.0 Tips

Hi Don,

It is indeed a very interesting and challenging project, but I cannot talk in 
public about it. However, as I'm just a regular employee, it neither increases 
nor decreases my pay-check. It just ensures that it is paid.

Thanks for putting it all together, was a nice and recreational hour to read 
carefully through it.

Your trick with the hot water is something I'd like to try, however this will 
be later. If you treat the finished fly with the hot water: What is your 
experience regarding the durability of the paint? Is there a risk that some of 
the dye will add color to additional feathers?

Rene










On 03/05/2017 06:20 PM, DonO wrote:

  Rene,

  I hope it’s a good job that keeps you on the go. Lots of .

  I don’t use the Wing Things to attach the wings to the hook, although I 
actually could if needed.

  Easiest thing is to list the things I do with them, which will all be in the 
Wing Things 2.0 extension of the article.  And I’ll probably do a You-tube 
video.  I’ll try to list them in order. (I’ll be using this as the outline for 
Ver 2.0 Wing Things on my website with lots more photos.)

  1.  Group bulk feathers left and right*, (off of one cape) trimmed and set to 
length, size, color, webbieness, etc.  So if I want big presentation streamers 
I group all the big feathers at the back of the cape, trim the downy butt ends 
and insert as many will fit in the wing thing.  I have bigger straws to 
accommodate large groups of thick feathers. For smaller fishing flies, I start 
in the middle of the cape.

  Depending on whether I’m tying a bunch or similar patterns for a swap or 
designing individual flies, this grouping of large quantities of L/R hackles is 
useful. Sometimes I use the tubes, and sometimes I have extras stored in small 
plastic pockets, especially when I’m designing.  (Photos in WT 2.0) 

  *2. I have many necks that dried ‘weird’ and don’t have equal rights and 
lefts (especially old Chinese capes). Also, the modern drying techniques for 
bagging actually set a reverse curve (or even a twist) in the feathers from the 
natural, so what you think is a left is actually a right.  The vendor hot dying 
& drying process re-sets the curves, so another hot water bath will reset the 
curves the way you want them- regardless of L/R bends, in a Wing Thing. So set 
an equal number of L/R feathers in the Wing Thing (ignore curves & twists) and 
run it 

Re: [VFB] Sowbug 2017 - my schedule

['Anthony Spezio' via VFB Mail]

If your time permits feel free to come by our house.
Tony

On Sat, 3/11/17, Rene Zillmann  wrote:

 Subject: [VFB] Sowbug 2017 - my schedule
 To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com
 Date: Saturday, March 11, 2017, 4:40 AM
 
 Sowbuggers,
 
 I will leave here on Sunday Mar 19th, arrive in Memphis late
 on this 
 date (due to the time shift) and simply head to a hotel.
 
 On Monday 20th I will arrive in Mountain home, assuming in
 the 
 afternoon. Is anybody else also there at this point in time?
 Any meeting 
 place already agreed? fshing?... Tying and lying?
 
 After attending the Sowbug I'll leave on Sunday heading to
 Hot Springs, 
 Natchez and return via Memphis.
 
 How are  your plans?
 
 Rene
 
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[VFB] Sowbug 2017 - my schedule

[Rene Zillmann]

Sowbuggers,

I will leave here on Sunday Mar 19th, arrive in Memphis late on this 
date (due to the time shift) and simply head to a hotel.


On Monday 20th I will arrive in Mountain home, assuming in the 
afternoon. Is anybody else also there at this point in time? Any meeting 
place already agreed? fshing?... Tying and lying?


After attending the Sowbug I'll leave on Sunday heading to Hot Springs, 
Natchez and return via Memphis.


How are  your plans?

Rene

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Re: [VFB] Wing Things 2.0 Tips

[Rene Zillmann]

Hi Don,

It is indeed a very interesting and challenging project, but I cannot 
talk in public about it. However, as I'm just a regular employee, it 
neither increases nor decreases my pay-check. It just ensures that it is 
paid.


Thanks for putting it all together, was a nice and recreational hour to 
read carefully through it.


Your trick with the hot water is something I'd like to try, however this 
will be later. If you treat the finished fly with the hot water: What is 
your experience regarding the durability of the paint? Is there a risk 
that some of the dye will add color to additional feathers?


Rene





On 03/05/2017 06:20 PM, DonO wrote:

Rene,
I hope it’s a *good job* that keeps you on the go. Lots of .
I don’t use the Wing Things to attach the wings to the hook, although 
I actually could if needed.
Easiest thing is to list the things I do with them, which will all be 
in the Wing Things 2.0 extension of the article.  And I’ll probably do 
a You-tube video.  I’ll try to list them in order. (I’ll be using this 
as the outline for /Ver 2.0 Wing Things/ on my website with lots more 
photos.)
1. *Group bulk feathers left and right**, (off of one cape) trimmed 
and set to length, size, color, webbieness, etc.  So if I want big 
presentation streamers I group all the big feathers at the back of the 
cape, trim the downy butt ends and insert as many will fit in the wing 
thing.  I have bigger straws to accommodate large groups of thick 
feathers. For smaller fishing flies, I start in the middle of the cape.
Depending on whether I’m tying a bunch or similar patterns for a swap 
or designing individual flies, this grouping of large quantities of 
L/R hackles is useful. Sometimes I use the tubes, and sometimes I have 
extras stored in small plastic pockets, especially when I’m 
designing.  (Photos in WT 2.0)
**2.* I have many necks that dried ‘weird’ and *don’t have equal 
rights and lefts* (especially old Chinese capes). Also, the modern 
drying techniques for bagging actually set a reverse curve (or even a 
twist) in the feathers from the natural, so what you think is a left 
is actually a right.  The vendor hot dying & drying process re-sets 
the curves, so another hot water bath will reset the curves the way 
you want them- regardless of L/R bends, in a Wing Thing. So set an 
*equal number* of L/R feathers in the Wing Thing (ignore curves & 
twists) and run it through hot water and lay the whole group on a 
blotter with the shape you want to let it dry.  This will also expose 
non-color-fast dyes used, and you can see from my blotter in the 
photos.  When they dry you will have equal #s of properly curved 
rights and lefts OR all straight if that’s what you need.  For 
presentation flies, I always use a slight graceful curve. The wing 
will dry dense, still looking wet, but *combing it out with a small 
brush* will restore the dry bulk of the wing.
Note that this /so far is for a single bulk color/. Once the finished 
multi-wing wing is built, or the fly is finished, another dredge 
through the hot water helps to control unruly feathers, along with 
some other techniques I’ll mention. Sometimes I’ll be able to wait 
until the fly is finished before I dredge it. /Depends on how the 
feathers are cooperating./
*3. For grouping/holding/controlling feathers while designing*.  The 
article explains this pretty well, for both wings and cheeks. But if 
the feathers aren’t cooperating, there’s more you can do.
*4.* Once I have my wing ‘dead to rights’, *I tie the tips together* 
with about 6-10 tight wraps, /no knot or glue/, before inserting into 
the WTs.  This keeps the wing feathers from sliding back and forth as 
I insert cheek groups or individual feathers.  I do this 
cheek-matching many times and the thread knot controls my wing 
layering.  If I want to change the layering, the thread slides right 
off and I can re-design the wing.
*5.* Once I have the wing-set I want, or if I have a lot of wing 
feathers that may try to rotate around as I tie the group down, *I’ll 
drop in some head cement into the back end of the Wing Thing tube* and 
watch it penetrate into the wing feather tips just a little, catching 
some barbs, before setting it on a pin. Don’t worry if you over-do it 
a little, the cheeks cover the glue area. *Once it dries, pull it out 
and trim the front tips to a short wedge* so there’s no hump in the 
head when you tie it down.  Re-insert or tie down onto the hook.** If 
you are having a hard time keeping the wing feathers stable while 
gluing, use a reverse tweezers to grab the fly at the cheek area to 
flatten it out while drying. (will have photos)
**I like to tie the belly fibers before tying the wing- helps position 
the wing better with a larger base.
To Answer Rene’s question about using the wing things to attach the 
wing to the hook, If you didn’t use glue, you could tie the loaded 
wing-ting down real tight, pull off the wing thing, trim the butt 
ends, and finish