[videoblogging] Re: AFTRA Jurisdiction Over Web Media?
All of the Guilds are struggling over where they fit into this new digital world, and both SAG and AFTRA on the acting side have claimed all internet productions to be under their juristiction. Which is a bit of a stretch. But basically the guilds are reacting to the trends of reality TV (which is totally non-union) and how they got screwed in the 80s on Home Video. They negotiated low money on home video and then got screwed when that business really took off. The best thing is to avoid them. When we hire people we use the guild guidelines in terms of payscale and breaks, etc. But avoid becoming a guild signatory because unless you have dedicated people that know how to care and feed the guilds with the proper money and paperwork, you're just asking yourself for a world of hurt. As always, your mileage may vary. And please talk to knowledgable attorney before making any decisions for yourself. -Kent, askaninja.com --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Justin Kownacki [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey folks; One of our cast members joined AFTRA today (for an unrelated production), and it turns out the gent he was talking to at AFTRA knows of our show. He also explained that AFTRA has full jurisdiction over internet productions, and they'd like to sit down with us to work out a deferred payment contract for our entire cast. Has anyone else been involved in discussions of this sort? I'm completely unaware of AFTRA's jurisdiction over the web, though I presume I must be late to the table on this. Anyone have any negotiating tips? Cheers. Justin Kownacki Producer, Something to Be Desired http://www.somethingtobedesired.com
[videoblogging] Re: AFTRA Jurisdiction Over Web Media?
Actually, the one issue that my cast member who's becoming an AFTRA member had was: if AFTRA sees he's working on a web series and ISN'T under a deferred payment contract, perhaps AFTRA might fine him. Which, again, is ludicrous because they'd essentially be fining him for working on something that isn't generating income in the first place... I'll definitely keep the group posted as information becomes available. Cheers. Justin Kownacki Producer, Something to Be Desired http://www.somethingtobedesired.com
Re: [videoblogging] Re: AFTRA Jurisdiction Over Web Media?
Hi. I'm new to this list, so here's a good time to say hi. Anyway, AFTRA really hates this and they throw a big fit if they find out, but from what friends have told me, you can work on non-AFTRA projects uncredited or under a pseudonym to get around these issues. I'd say use with extreme caution though. On 5/6/07, Justin Kownacki [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually, the one issue that my cast member who's becoming an AFTRA member had was: if AFTRA sees he's working on a web series and ISN'T under a deferred payment contract, perhaps AFTRA might fine him. Which, again, is ludicrous because they'd essentially be fining him for working on something that isn't generating income in the first place... I'll definitely keep the group posted as information becomes available. Cheers. Justin Kownacki Producer, Something to Be Desired http://www.somethingtobedesired.com -- Daniel J. Geduld Audio: http://www.everyonesvoice.com Video: http://www.flyingsquidstudios.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[videoblogging] Re: AFTRA Jurisdiction Over Web Media?
Thanks for the responses. From the wording I'd received, I was under the impression that I was one of the stragglers who hadn't worked out a deal with AFTRA yet. If no one else has much experience here, then it does sound more like a matter of us being seen as a test case in that regard. I'm not a traditional employer of actors -- I'd have to be making money from Something to Be Desired to do that -- but I do have a cast of dozens. I can see where we're very much a target for AFTRA. I'm certainly not opposed to paying the cast -- I'm well aware that I don't create the show alone -- but I do wish folks from traditional media backgrounds were working a bit harder to ensure that there was actually an audience and a market in the web video medium BEFORE ensuring that the participants are protected from if / then eventualities. Nothing drives away potential explorers like red tape... Cheers. Justin Kownacki Producer, Something to Be Desired http://www.somethingtobedesired.com
[videoblogging] Re: AFTRA Jurisdiction Over Web Media?
Its certainly a confusing situation because generally these orgs are there to make sure they and their members get a fair slice of the pie, and if there is no pie, I dont know what will happen. I guess there must be pre-internet examples of some of their members, eg actors, working on projects for free or far belo the going rate, due to the production being a startup or not for profit or whatever. I do not know whether, for example, they might try to discourage members from working for free. Or whether if they come to see you, they will be encouraging your entire cast to join their union. Maybe indie film producers and actors have a presence somewhere on the web where you'l be able to get more responses. Please do let the group know how this turns out, as I dont know if you are the first to run into these issues but I bet you certainly wont be the last. Cheers Steve Elbows --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Justin Kownacki [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for the responses. From the wording I'd received, I was under the impression that I was one of the stragglers who hadn't worked out a deal with AFTRA yet. If no one else has much experience here, then it does sound more like a matter of us being seen as a test case in that regard. I'm not a traditional employer of actors -- I'd have to be making money from Something to Be Desired to do that -- but I do have a cast of dozens. I can see where we're very much a target for AFTRA. I'm certainly not opposed to paying the cast -- I'm well aware that I don't create the show alone -- but I do wish folks from traditional media backgrounds were working a bit harder to ensure that there was actually an audience and a market in the web video medium BEFORE ensuring that the participants are protected from if / then eventualities. Nothing drives away potential explorers like red tape... Cheers. Justin Kownacki Producer, Something to Be Desired http://www.somethingtobedesired.com
[videoblogging] Re: AFTRA Jurisdiction Over Web Media?
Its not so much that they have jurisdiction over the web, (lthough they use that phrase themselves) so much as there are probably now enough people working in new media that they've decided to focus some attention on that area. See this press release: http://www.aftra.com/press/pr_2007_04_16_new_media_wrkgrp.html This sort of stuff is pretty much a non-issue if you are an individual vlogging, or do not employ people. But if you start to resemble a traditional employer of actors etc, you are going to run into a minefield that people in the traditional media, holywood, etc, will have many decades of experience with. I dont know enough about this stuff to talk further on it, but whilst I support the concept of labour organising, and ensuring there isnt mass explotation by unscrupulous employers, some aspects of this stuff is likely to resemble some of the worst aspects of the guilds that had so much power in Europe hundreds of years ago. These guilds and unions probably wont have much trouble adapting to commercial new media, but some of the ideas of blogging vlogging in the broader non-commercial sense, eg, shock-horror, non-union amateurs 'taking the pros jobs', might lead to considerable battles in the future. Its one of the funny contradictions about the USA from where Im sitting, the seemingly all-pervasive free-market ideology, has some exceptions when it comes to certain strong guilds with power. Cheers Steve Elbows --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Justin Kownacki [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey folks; One of our cast members joined AFTRA today (for an unrelated production), and it turns out the gent he was talking to at AFTRA knows of our show. He also explained that AFTRA has full jurisdiction over internet productions, and they'd like to sit down with us to work out a deferred payment contract for our entire cast. Has anyone else been involved in discussions of this sort? I'm completely unaware of AFTRA's jurisdiction over the web, though I presume I must be late to the table on this. Anyone have any negotiating tips? Cheers. Justin Kownacki Producer, Something to Be Desired http://www.somethingtobedesired.com
[videoblogging] Re: AFTRA Jurisdiction Over Web Media?
Another potential problem such orgs may have is with the concept of stuff being freely redistributable forever. They tend to be used to negotiating contracts where the talent gets more money when shows are repeated, etc. For example they caused some problems to internet radio some years ago, I dont know whats happened with this sort of thing since: http://www.streamingmedia.com/article.asp?id=7105 Cheers Steve Elbows --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Steve Watkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Its not so much that they have jurisdiction over the web, (lthough they use that phrase themselves) so much as there are probably now enough people working in new media that they've decided to focus some attention on that area. See this press release: http://www.aftra.com/press/pr_2007_04_16_new_media_wrkgrp.html This sort of stuff is pretty much a non-issue if you are an individual vlogging, or do not employ people. But if you start to resemble a traditional employer of actors etc, you are going to run into a minefield that people in the traditional media, holywood, etc, will have many decades of experience with. I dont know enough about this stuff to talk further on it, but whilst I support the concept of labour organising, and ensuring there isnt mass explotation by unscrupulous employers, some aspects of this stuff is likely to resemble some of the worst aspects of the guilds that had so much power in Europe hundreds of years ago. These guilds and unions probably wont have much trouble adapting to commercial new media, but some of the ideas of blogging vlogging in the broader non-commercial sense, eg, shock-horror, non-union amateurs 'taking the pros jobs', might lead to considerable battles in the future. Its one of the funny contradictions about the USA from where Im sitting, the seemingly all-pervasive free-market ideology, has some exceptions when it comes to certain strong guilds with power. Cheers Steve Elbows --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Justin Kownacki jkownacki@ wrote: Hey folks; One of our cast members joined AFTRA today (for an unrelated production), and it turns out the gent he was talking to at AFTRA knows of our show. He also explained that AFTRA has full jurisdiction over internet productions, and they'd like to sit down with us to work out a deferred payment contract for our entire cast. Has anyone else been involved in discussions of this sort? I'm completely unaware of AFTRA's jurisdiction over the web, though I presume I must be late to the table on this. Anyone have any negotiating tips? Cheers. Justin Kownacki Producer, Something to Be Desired http://www.somethingtobedesired.com
