[videoblogging] Re: Canon HV-20 24p-60i issue
Kary has the basics down. I use a Canon HV20 and shoot in 24P. It's not actually 24 progressive frames per second. It records 24 progressive frames across 60 interlaced frames. What this means is you have to do a double process. The first one is to import the video as HDV into Final Cut. Once you do that, you use reveal in finder to find the clips in your capture scratch bin, then you import those files into Compressor. There are some settings you have to make... something like setting deinterlacing to reverse telecine and setting the fps to 23.978 and probably some other stuff, but that's outlined in the Apple docs. You only have to do it once, and then you use that preset for every clip you import. As you can tell, time-wise, that's a drag. Another thing you can do, assuming you're not delivering in 1080 is set up your Compressor preset to translate the footage to 1280x720. Oh, that's another thing. Translate the HDV footage into Apple ProRes. Anyway, once all that's done, the video's great. :) Once you set it up in Compressor, the process takes a long time, but your final result's fantastic for $700. Bill Cammack http://billcammack.com --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Kary Rogers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Apple has some info on the HV-20/Final Cut workflow to get 1080p24 footage into the editor. Short version is you have to import it as 60i and then reverse telecine each clip with either Cinema Tools or Compressor. http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=306389 Good luck, -- Kary Rogers http://karyhead.com http://goodcommitment.tv On Mon, Jun 9, 2008 at 4:53 PM, eric gunnar rochow [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hey everyone, i recently bought a Canon HV-20 to complement my larger camera, the Canon XHA1. i usually shoot in 24P mode with the XHA1. i was under the impression that the HV-20 could shoot in 24P, but i now learn that it shoots in a 'sort-of 24P' mode that is then 'wrapped' in a 60i format. when you import the footage into FInal Cut, it is a 60i file. i shoot in progressive ( P format ) specifically for the web, and now it looks like i will have to de-interlace this HV-20 footage before uploading to Blip, etc. Does anyone have any experience with this or suggestions? i just learned that Canon's new camera , the HV-30 shoots in true 30P, so i may be selling this one and getting the new model , as i really want the progressive format. thx, eric. www.gree-house.tv Gardenfork and Real World Green [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Canon HV-20 24p-60i issue
It is 24p. Real 24p. It is just 24p with 3:2 pulldown added. It is no different in that sense from film footage you've had telecine'd or 24p (as opposed to PA) DVX100 footage. And unlike the XH-A1 and its ilk, it is true 24P rather than the pixel shift res-compromised fakery (effective as it is) of 24F. It is not a big deal once you are used to it, and forces your hand to move your footage out of the gawdawful HDV format in the process. Apple has a doc on their site that deals specifically with the camera and their process, which is basically just removing the pulldown in compressor while converting to prores (or another non-temporally-compressed codec of your choice). You can also use the free downloadable JES deinterlacer program to do it. Or for that matter After Effects. Occasionally - and i mean it is REALLY rare - JES or compressor will misinterpret the cadence. SO you redo a couple of clips. Oh well. Remember waiting for film to be ready at the lab? This is really no big deal, just not as seamless as it is with a DVX or HVX or, I assume, the XH-A1. To get this (and the rest of what it does) out of a $700 camera is a miracle. Here is my process, which I use constantly: 1. Capture using capture now at 29.97. 20 minutes or a whole tape. Why capture now (which I normally tell students to NEVER use)? Because FCP automatically separates each clip on capture due to the HV20's manner of dealing with timecode in 24p mode. 2. Load'em up in compressor or JES, or highlight them in the browser and do it from FCP. 3. Export to prores, aic, photojpeg @ 75% quality or higher, or DVCproHD in compressor. Set frame controls in the preset to do a reverse telecine before you do it. If you're going to do this a lot, make a preset, or better yet a droplet. I use prores HQ at 1440x1080. (there is no quality advantage at this stage to using 1920 - some would argue there is no quality advantage to HQ coming from HDV, but if really stretch things around in post processing like I do you definitely will see a difference in the end). I capture, reverse telecine, and edit 24p footage from the HV20 almost every day. Now if they can just move the manual focus controls and add one more control so I can control aperture and shutter simultaneously without tricking the camera interface I'll start to feel actually warm and fuzzy about the thing. Still, it's a miracle for the money. Brook On Mon, Jun 9, 2008 at 8:08 PM, Bill Cammack [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kary has the basics down. I use a Canon HV20 and shoot in 24P. It's not actually 24 progressive frames per second. It records 24 progressive frames across 60 interlaced frames. What this means is you have to do a double process. The first one is to import the video as HDV into Final Cut. Once you do that, you use reveal in finder to find the clips in your capture scratch bin, then you import those files into Compressor. There are some settings you have to make... something like setting deinterlacing to reverse telecine and setting the fps to 23.978 and probably some other stuff, but that's outlined in the Apple docs. You only have to do it once, and then you use that preset for every clip you import. As you can tell, time-wise, that's a drag. Another thing you can do, assuming you're not delivering in 1080 is set up your Compressor preset to translate the footage to 1280x720. Oh, that's another thing. Translate the HDV footage into Apple ProRes. Anyway, once all that's done, the video's great. :) Once you set it up in Compressor, the process takes a long time, but your final result's fantastic for $700. Bill Cammack http://billcammack.com --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com videoblogging%40yahoogroups.com, Kary Rogers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Apple has some info on the HV-20/Final Cut workflow to get 1080p24 footage into the editor. Short version is you have to import it as 60i and then reverse telecine each clip with either Cinema Tools or Compressor. http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=306389 Good luck, -- Kary Rogers http://karyhead.com http://goodcommitment.tv On Mon, Jun 9, 2008 at 4:53 PM, eric gunnar rochow [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hey everyone, i recently bought a Canon HV-20 to complement my larger camera, the Canon XHA1. i usually shoot in 24P mode with the XHA1. i was under the impression that the HV-20 could shoot in 24P, but i now learn that it shoots in a 'sort-of 24P' mode that is then 'wrapped' in a 60i format. when you import the footage into FInal Cut, it is a 60i file. i shoot in progressive ( P format ) specifically for the web, and now it looks like i will have to de-interlace this HV-20 footage before uploading to Blip, etc. Does anyone have any experience with this or suggestions? i just learned that Canon's new camera , the HV-30 shoots in true 30P, so i may be selling this one and getting the new model , as
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Canon HV-20 24p-60i issue
You know, I thought I was responding to a different mailing list on which the tone of that would have been more appropriate and taken with a grain of salt, so please excuse the haughty tone and some irrelevant material within. Sorry!!! (slinking off to a corner) On Mon, Jun 9, 2008 at 8:48 PM, Brook Hinton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is 24p. Real 24p. It is just 24p with 3:2 pulldown added. It is no different in that sense from film footage you've had telecine'd or 24p (as opposed to PA) DVX100 footage. And unlike the XH-A1 and its ilk, it is true 24P rather than the pixel shift res-compromised fakery (effective as it is) of 24F. It is not a big deal once you are used to it, and forces your hand to move your footage out of the gawdawful HDV format in the process. Apple has a doc on their site that deals specifically with the camera and their process, which is basically just removing the pulldown in compressor while converting to prores (or another non-temporally-compressed codec of your choice). You can also use the free downloadable JES deinterlacer program to do it. Or for that matter After Effects. Occasionally - and i mean it is REALLY rare - JES or compressor will misinterpret the cadence. SO you redo a couple of clips. Oh well. Remember waiting for film to be ready at the lab? This is really no big deal, just not as seamless as it is with a DVX or HVX or, I assume, the XH-A1. To get this (and the rest of what it does) out of a $700 camera is a miracle. Here is my process, which I use constantly: 1. Capture using capture now at 29.97. 20 minutes or a whole tape. Why capture now (which I normally tell students to NEVER use)? Because FCP automatically separates each clip on capture due to the HV20's manner of dealing with timecode in 24p mode. 2. Load'em up in compressor or JES, or highlight them in the browser and do it from FCP. 3. Export to prores, aic, photojpeg @ 75% quality or higher, or DVCproHD in compressor. Set frame controls in the preset to do a reverse telecine before you do it. If you're going to do this a lot, make a preset, or better yet a droplet. I use prores HQ at 1440x1080. (there is no quality advantage at this stage to using 1920 - some would argue there is no quality advantage to HQ coming from HDV, but if really stretch things around in post processing like I do you definitely will see a difference in the end). I capture, reverse telecine, and edit 24p footage from the HV20 almost every day. Now if they can just move the manual focus controls and add one more control so I can control aperture and shutter simultaneously without tricking the camera interface I'll start to feel actually warm and fuzzy about the thing. Still, it's a miracle for the money. Brook On Mon, Jun 9, 2008 at 8:08 PM, Bill Cammack [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kary has the basics down. I use a Canon HV20 and shoot in 24P. It's not actually 24 progressive frames per second. It records 24 progressive frames across 60 interlaced frames. What this means is you have to do a double process. The first one is to import the video as HDV into Final Cut. Once you do that, you use reveal in finder to find the clips in your capture scratch bin, then you import those files into Compressor. There are some settings you have to make... something like setting deinterlacing to reverse telecine and setting the fps to 23.978 and probably some other stuff, but that's outlined in the Apple docs. You only have to do it once, and then you use that preset for every clip you import. As you can tell, time-wise, that's a drag. Another thing you can do, assuming you're not delivering in 1080 is set up your Compressor preset to translate the footage to 1280x720. Oh, that's another thing. Translate the HDV footage into Apple ProRes. Anyway, once all that's done, the video's great. :) Once you set it up in Compressor, the process takes a long time, but your final result's fantastic for $700. Bill Cammack http://billcammack.com --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com videoblogging%40yahoogroups.com, Kary Rogers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Apple has some info on the HV-20/Final Cut workflow to get 1080p24 footage into the editor. Short version is you have to import it as 60i and then reverse telecine each clip with either Cinema Tools or Compressor. http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=306389 Good luck, -- Kary Rogers http://karyhead.com http://goodcommitment.tv On Mon, Jun 9, 2008 at 4:53 PM, eric gunnar rochow [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hey everyone, i recently bought a Canon HV-20 to complement my larger camera, the Canon XHA1. i usually shoot in 24P mode with the XHA1. i was under the impression that the HV-20 could shoot in 24P, but i now learn that it shoots in a 'sort-of 24P' mode that is then 'wrapped' in a 60i format. when you import the footage into FInal Cut, it is a 60i file.
[videoblogging] Re: Canon HV-20 24p-60i issue
hey thanks for all the info. i think i will end up getting the HV 30, as i want the Progressive format to have it look good on the web, and i'd like to avoid having to do the reverse telecine. eric.
