[videoblogging] Re: Drive-by Tagging
Tags rock. One of my favorite places to tag is http://vimeo.com --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, johngaltsjournal [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For me, the whole aspect of making media is about creating a new millenium card catalog. I want media of various viewpoints accessible in the future. your home town, this year, this family event, this labor strike...whatever. love, blue, sliceoflife, animation. Tag it what it is! YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[videoblogging] Re: Drive-by Tagging
Places you can tag videos: http://mefeedia.com/ http://blip.tv/ http://del.icio.us/ http://technorati.com/ http://getFireANT.NET I am working on supporting rel=tag in Mefeedia (like Technorati does), which will make things much easier hopefully. Sull/Ro are right, you should be able to just tag in 1 place. Peter YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Drive-by Tagging
On Thu, 04 Aug 2005 17:40:08 +0200, petertheman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am working on supporting rel=tag in Mefeedia (like Technorati does), which will make things much easier hopefully. Sull/Ro are right, you should be able to just tag in 1 place. And that place should first and foremost be on your own blog. Brownie points to mefeedia for wanting to support technorati-style tagging. - Andreas -- URL:http://www.solitude.dk/ Commentary on media, communication, culture and technology. YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Drive-by Tagging
And that place should first and foremost be on your own blog. Brownie points to mefeedia for wanting to support technorati-style tagging. Sorry Andreas, this is retarded. Why can't your viewers/readers/audience tag stuff too. Tags are not only for authors. This is what makes tagging interesting. This is why Del.icio.us is so freaking cool. I'm totally down with the open tagging stuff. I think its important. Tagging islands are dumb and will not scale. But, any open tagging system must be able to provide attribution to the originating tag service. So, it adds a 4th axis in the Tag equation: - Tag - Tagger - Tagged object - Tag service Although, this discussion is better suited to the Vertigo list. -Josh On 8/4/05, Andreas Haugstrup [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 04 Aug 2005 17:40:08 +0200, petertheman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am working on supporting rel=tag in Mefeedia (like Technorati does), which will make things much easier hopefully. Sull/Ro are right, you should be able to just tag in 1 place. And that place should first and foremost be on your own blog. Brownie points to mefeedia for wanting to support technorati-style tagging. - Andreas -- URL:http://www.solitude.dk/ Commentary on media, communication, culture and technology. Yahoo! Groups Links YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Drive-by Tagging
Joshua Kinberg wrote: Although, this discussion is better suited to the Vertigo list. -Josh *sigh*, yet another list to subscribe to. Managing all these subscriptions is becoming a nightmare. Clint -- Clint Sharp New Media Guy Technologist ClintSharp.com Contact Info: http://clintsharp.com/contact/ We are the media. YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[videoblogging] Re: Drive-by Tagging
I agree, some sort of universal tagging method should be in place. I just assumed we are heading there slowly but surely. I mean, I'm no programmer, but I know its coming. I'm ready for it! schlomo http://schlomolog.blogspot.com --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Michael Sullivan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i decided to hold back from adding tags on vlogdir, which would let you tag videoblog site, feeds and the actual media links. tagging is cool, but i am a bit frustrated that we have so many different laces to tag instead of it all being integrated. it makes things too complicated and shouldnt be used as a competitive feature. this is why we are starting to talk about an Open Tagging system... Ro, myself and others from the video vertigo clan will try and work this out. we need to get tag systems unified. otherwise its counter-intuitive for the whole of the vlogoshpere and open media culture. sull On 8/4/05, Jay dedman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For me, the whole aspect of making media is about creating a new millenium card catalog. I want media of various viewpoints accessible in the future. your home town, this year, this family event, this labor strike...whatever. love, blue, sliceoflife, animation. Tag it what it is! Places you can tag: http://mefeedia.com/ http://blip.tv/ http://del.icio.us/ http://flickr.com/ http://technorati.com/ http://YOUR WEBSITE HERE (who else? It's the Wild West of Media right now. Hop on your horse and take it over...but not like John Wayne. Or Arnie.) you can also tag in FireANT. http://getFireANT.NET just the PC version for now...but the new mac version (coming out soon) will let you tag directly to delicious. this is the year of the video filter. jay -- URL: http://www.momentshowing.net Adventures in Videoblogging Yahoo! Groups Links -- sull - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - http://vlogdir.com -is- The Videoblog Directory http://interdigitate.com -is- my personal site YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Drive-by Tagging
You know I'm only joking when I say something like this is retarded (i never said *you* were retarded :-) What is needed for this to happen is a standardized data format. Only if you have a standard format can this work. I've mentioned xFolk more than once to you because xFolk is what can take this to the next level where I can tag *any* page on the web on my own blog. This is the problem. Not everyone is a blogger. Tags do not and should not revolve around bloggers. xFolk is still too complicated for anyone to use -- its really hard to write by hand, tough to generate through automation, and even harder to spider and aggregate. Besides, the spec is not settled yet so there is no reason to adopt it at this point. It may see its day, but it is not usable now. xFolk is simply a spec, but it is not a spec that is in use, and that is what makes all the difference. Something easier could come along and blow xFolk out of the water (Technorati-style tags are way way easier, so for now that's my preference. Plus Technorati considers the Category element in RSS as a tag too, so it works with existing standards -- Hallelujah!). the information is *free*. Then you can talk about having a basis for innovation - collecting the data is no longer the issue. You can focus on Doing Cool Stuff. What I envision is more of a tagging ping service. Not unlike blog ping services. Something that lets you notify when tags are created, what is tagged, who tagged it, where is it tagged, and what the tag is. This is simple enough, built on existing protocols and could enable new types of tools and services. This is not too different from what Technorati is already doing, except they aren't really providing their aggregated data back to the community either, so their service isn't as open as you claim -- its accessed through an API the same way Flickr and Delicious are. At the end of the day, you do need to retain some kind of value in your service otherwise there is no incentive to provide services. This ecology of tools and services must also sustain an economy. -Josh I'm still in control of my tags because they're on my own blog. Unlike Flickr, where Flickr is in control of my tags. With an adoption of xFolk you can't have a monopoly like Flickr. Any teenager with a computer can write a competing service because the information is *free*. Then you can talk about having a basis for innovation - collecting the data is no longer the issue. You can focus on Doing Cool Stuff. On 8/4/05, Andreas Haugstrup [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 04 Aug 2005 18:00:12 +0200, Joshua Kinberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And that place should first and foremost be on your own blog. Brownie points to mefeedia for wanting to support technorati-style tagging. Sorry Andreas, this is retarded. Why can't your viewers/readers/audience tag stuff too. Tags are not only for authors. This is what makes tagging interesting. This is why Del.icio.us is so freaking cool. I said first and foremost, not only. :o) I have to admit before I continue that my prior e-mail as vague as it was had as its primary goal to bait you into the conversation. I was hoping that you'd take offense. It's a rhetorical strategy because now I can write about how I really feel and at the same time present myself as some pseudo father figure (or in layman's terms: A know-it-all). But since you called me retarded I think we're even now. :o) Two warnings: I'm going to swear at least once, and I'm going to tell you that Flickr is evil. Technorati-style tagging is nice. And it's a really good start - you have to agree with me on that. The ability for an author to tag his own blog posts with keywords is powerful and shouldn't be belittled. However as you point out it's not the complete picture. The next step is to allow for a person to tag *any* URL. You hail delicious for doing that, and we can safely lump Flickr in the same group. They both allow for tagging of other people's stuff. But at the same time they break the first rule of not being an evil corporation. They compete on data submission. Never, ever compete on fucking data submission. Delicious is better than Flickr in this regard. I can tag any URL at delicious, but I still have to be a member. At Flickr I'm completely locked in - it's their whole business model. I have to be a member to tag content, and I have to be a member if I want my content tagged. And here's the kicker: If I don't pay up I'm only allowed X number of photos. Great, now I have to *pay* to be a part of the network. Fuck that. Information should be free. Corporations should not compete on who has the best data (because information should be free, damnit!). They should compete on what they do with the data. And *that's* why the tagging should happen on people's blogs and not under the control of some company. Peter might be open up his tag data today, but when some other entity
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Drive-by Tagging
wouldnt pinging + millions of taggings be a bit too intensive, somewhere? and where would that somewhere be? On 8/4/05, Joshua Kinberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What I envision is more of a tagging ping service. Not unlike blogping services. Something that lets you notify when tags are created,what is tagged, who tagged it, where is it tagged, and what the tag is. This is simple enough, built on existing protocols and couldenable new types of tools and services. -- sull- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -http://vlogdir.com -is- The Videoblog Directory http://interdigitate.com -is- my personal site SPONSORED LINKS Individual Fireant YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Drive-by Tagging
Is pinging + millions of weblogs too intensive? -Josh On 8/4/05, Michael Sullivan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: wouldnt pinging + millions of taggings be a bit too intensive, somewhere? and where would that somewhere be? On 8/4/05, Joshua Kinberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What I envision is more of a tagging ping service. Not unlike blog ping services. Something that lets you notify when tags are created, what is tagged, who tagged it, where is it tagged, and what the tag is. This is simple enough, built on existing protocols and could enable new types of tools and services. -- sull - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - http://vlogdir.com -is- The Videoblog Directory http://interdigitate.com -is- my personal site SPONSORED LINKS Individual Fireant YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group videoblogging on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. SPONSORED LINKS Individual Fireant YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Drive-by Tagging
On Thu, 04 Aug 2005 20:33:30 +0200, Joshua Kinberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You know I'm only joking when I say something like this is retarded (i never said *you* were retarded :-) Touché. :o) Fortunately we're all friends here! What is needed for this to happen is a standardized data format. Only if you have a standard format can this work. I've mentioned xFolk more than once to you because xFolk is what can take this to the next level where I can tag *any* page on the web on my own blog. This is the problem. Not everyone is a blogger. Tags do not and should not revolve around bloggers. Yes, I mean no. You're right that not everyone is a blogger. Not everyone has a blog to put their tags on. But services that gives non-bloggers the option to tag 'stuff' should provide a public page of that person's tags in the same standard data format everyone else is using. The result is the same, there's just less use of the word blog. xFolk is still too complicated for anyone to use -- its really hard to write by hand, tough to generate through automation, and even harder to spider and aggregate. Besides, the spec is not settled yet so there is no reason to adopt it at this point. It may see its day, but it is not usable now. xFolk is simply a spec, but it is not a spec that is in use, and that is what makes all the difference. Something easier could come along and blow xFolk out of the water (Technorati-style tags are way way easier, so for now that's my preference. Plus Technorati considers the Category element in RSS as a tag too, so it works with existing standards -- Hallelujah!). Since we're all friends here: No whining. C'mon. We're trying to do something no one else has done. Of course the spec isn't done yet, and of course it's not in use. No one has done anything like this. If you only want to use well-established standards you'll never move forward. We'd all be stuck on typewriters because noone dared to use this new weird standard of transistors. xFolk is xhtml. It is very easy to parse. There's what? 3 class attributes and a rel attribute to look out for. I can't see what could be easier for designating a tag for an arbitrary URL. Technorati tags (RelTag) serves a different purpose (as you pointed out). With Technorati tags I can only tag pages *I* control. I can't tag one of your blog entries. It's too bad Technorati uses the category element for their tag pages. In time I think you'll see them remove that (or so I hope). They'll fail for the same reason Adam pointed out meta keywords failed. They're too easy to fake because they're invisible. the information is *free*. Then you can talk about having a basis for innovation - collecting the data is no longer the issue. You can focus on Doing Cool Stuff. What I envision is more of a tagging ping service. Not unlike blog ping services. Something that lets you notify when tags are created, what is tagged, who tagged it, where is it tagged, and what the tag is. This is simple enough, built on existing protocols and could enable new types of tools and services. You're keeping everything in the dark with a system like that. One has to be a member of the elite ping club to recieve notifications of tag pings. No, an open data format that anyone can tap into and mine is much better. You will probably need pings because they are efficient for letting services know you updated. But don't lock your tag information away. Let the ping help me by giving me a way of telling my favourite services that I've updated. But don't make the fucking data collecting your business model. What's the difference between a custom tag ping and the xFolk entry? The tag ping is hidden away. The xFolk entry is out there free for anyone to tap into. This is not too different from what Technorati is already doing, except they aren't really providing their aggregated data back to the community either, so their service isn't as open as you claim -- its accessed through an API the same way Flickr and Delicious are. At the end of the day, you do need to retain some kind of value in your service otherwise there is no incentive to provide services. You've missed my point. You don't have to rely on one company like Technorati to provide you with all the services you want. The data format is open. Write your own spider, collect the tags yourself. Do with them what you want. That's what the web is built upon. You *can* build a business model around open data formats. Just look at the web. If it was built on the same principles Flickr has and you are apparently promoting we would not have one common web. We'd have one web for the MS Internet Explorer crowd and one for the Netscape crowd and you wouldn't be able to visit pages if you didn't use the right browser for the right page. There wouldn't even *be* a Firefox because there's no way it could break into the market. - Andreas --
