Re: [Videolib] MSNBC
Hi Gail, There's a set of guidelines called the Kastenmeier Guidelines for Off-Air Taping for Educational Purposes that a lot of places follow. You can find them here: http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC/Kastenmeier.html. They're not actual law per se, and the rules are kinda wonky, but this might work for your purposes. You can Google kastenmeier guidelines if you want to know more about them. Cheers, Matt Matt Ball Media and Collections Librarian University of Virginia Charlottesville, VA 22904 mattb...@virginia.eduhttps://mail.eservices.virginia.edu/owa/redir.aspx?C=62fe60f092584617be4c37bdfc2dcf42URL=mailto%3amattball%40virginia.edu | 434-924-3812 From: videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu [mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Gail Fedak Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 12:04 PM To: videolib Subject: [Videolib] MSNBC A faculty member has requested that we tape off-air a 3 hour program airing on MSNBC over this weekend. My first inclination is to say no. Is this correct? Thanks, Gail -- Gail B. Fedak Director, Media Resources Middle Tennessee State University Murfreesboro, TN 37132 Phone: 615-898-2899 Fax: 615-898-2530 Email: gfe...@mtsu.edumailto:gfe...@mtsu.edu Web: www.mtsu.edu/~imrhttp://www.mtsu.edu/%7Eimr Education is a progressive study of your own ignorance. - Will Durant VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors.
Re: [Videolib] MSNBC
Taping and keeping it the collection would definitely violate copyright but you could tape it if he was planning to use it in the near term. Guidelines are fuzzy but as a matter of law an off air copy is not a legal copy. On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 12:03 PM, Gail Fedak gfe...@mtsu.edu wrote: A faculty member has requested that we tape off-air a 3 hour program airing on MSNBC over this weekend. My first inclination is to say no. Is this correct? Thanks, Gail -- Gail B. Fedak Director, Media Resources Middle Tennessee State University Murfreesboro, TN 37132 Phone: 615-898-2899 Fax: 615-898-2530 Email: gfe...@mtsu.edu Web: www.mtsu.edu/~imr http://www.mtsu.edu/%7Eimr “Education is a progressive study of your own ignorance.” – Will Durant VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors. -- Jessica Rosner Media Consultant 224-545-3897 (cell) 212-627-1785 (land line) jessicapros...@gmail.com VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors.
Re: [Videolib] MSNBC
Gail, My library follows Kastenmeier guidelines, which outline a limited time period we should keep the off-air recording (see Matt's link below). The biggest issue we have is when faculty want the materials available longer term. Sometimes we're able to purchase a permanent copy through the station, though it seems to typically take 4-6 weeks after broadcast for a copy to be made and shipped to us. Kastenmeier is usefully for serving really immediate faculty needs. Good luck, Kim Stanton Head, Media Library University of North Texas kim.stan...@unt.edu P: (940) 565-4832 F: (940) 369-7396 From: videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu [mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Ball, James (jmb4aw) Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 11:14 AM To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu Subject: Re: [Videolib] MSNBC Hi Gail, There's a set of guidelines called the Kastenmeier Guidelines for Off-Air Taping for Educational Purposes that a lot of places follow. You can find them here: http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC/Kastenmeier.html. They're not actual law per se, and the rules are kinda wonky, but this might work for your purposes. You can Google kastenmeier guidelines if you want to know more about them. Cheers, Matt Matt Ball Media and Collections Librarian University of Virginia Charlottesville, VA 22904 mattb...@virginia.eduhttps://mail.eservices.virginia.edu/owa/redir.aspx?C=62fe60f092584617be4c37bdfc2dcf42URL=mailto%3amattball%40virginia.edu | 434-924-3812 From: videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu [mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Gail Fedak Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 12:04 PM To: videolib Subject: [Videolib] MSNBC A faculty member has requested that we tape off-air a 3 hour program airing on MSNBC over this weekend. My first inclination is to say no. Is this correct? Thanks, Gail -- Gail B. Fedak Director, Media Resources Middle Tennessee State University Murfreesboro, TN 37132 Phone: 615-898-2899 Fax: 615-898-2530 Email: gfe...@mtsu.edumailto:gfe...@mtsu.edu Web: www.mtsu.edu/~imrhttp://www.mtsu.edu/%7Eimr Education is a progressive study of your own ignorance. - Will Durant VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors.
Re: [Videolib] MSNBC
I apologize, I left out too much information before I sent the query. We've recorded programs off-air at faculty request for 35+ years and, back in the day, licensed a fair number of them to be kept in the collection. In so doing, we have/still do observe the Kastenmeier guidelines, but have always declined requests to record programs off cable stations (basically anything other than ABC, CBS, NBC, PBS). Not being a committed TV viewer, I'm unclear as to the nature of MSNBC (cable exclusively or hybrid station of some sort?) and whether, according to the K. guidelines, it qualifies as a station from which it is permissible to record. If it is, I do understand the convoluted follow-up restrictions. Thanks again, Gail On 5/27/2011 11:03 AM, Gail Fedak wrote: A faculty member has requested that we tape off-air a 3 hour program airing on MSNBC over this weekend. My first inclination is to say no. Is this correct? Thanks, Gail -- Gail B. Fedak Director, Media Resources Middle Tennessee State University Murfreesboro, TN37132 Phone: 615-898-2899 Fax: 615-898-2530 Email: gfe...@mtsu.edu mailto:gfe...@mtsu.edu Web: www.mtsu.edu/~imr http://www.mtsu.edu/%7Eimr Education is a progressive study of your own ignorance. -- Will Durant VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors. -- Gail B. Fedak Director, Media Resources Middle Tennessee State University Murfreesboro, TN37132 Phone: 615-898-2899 Fax: 615-898-2530 Email: gfe...@mtsu.edu mailto:gfe...@mtsu.edu Web: www.mtsu.edu/~imr http://www.mtsu.edu/%7Eimr Education is a progressive study of your own ignorance. -- Will Durant VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors.
Re: [Videolib] MSNBC
Gail, et al. i didn't read this kastenmeier link, but is this the 10day/35day rule? Which means, record off-air at faculty request in order to make it possible for students to review something they might miss -- active on the shelves for 10 days and in 'escrow up to 35 days, at which point it's supposed to be erased? If you really followed that to the letter I think you could basically record anything -- from food channel to CSI. It just had to serve this make-up kind of purpose. Time shifting for a good reason. Did I get this right? Randal Baier - Original Message - From: Gail Fedak gfe...@mtsu.edu To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 1:40:13 PM Subject: Re: [Videolib] MSNBC I apologize, I left out too much information before I sent the query. We've recorded programs off-air at faculty request for 35+ years and, back in the day, licensed a fair number of them to be kept in the collection. In so doing, we have/still do observe the Kastenmeier guidelines, but have always declined requests to record programs off cable stations (basically anything other than ABC, CBS, NBC, PBS). Not being a committed TV viewer, I'm unclear as to the nature of MSNBC (cable exclusively or hybrid station of some sort?) and whether, according to the K. guidelines, it qualifies as a station from which it is permissible to record. If it is, I do understand the convoluted follow-up restrictions. Thanks again, Gail On 5/27/2011 11:03 AM, Gail Fedak wrote: A faculty member has requested that we tape off-air a 3 hour program airing on MSNBC over this weekend. My first inclination is to say no. Is this correct? Thanks, Gail -- Gail B Gail B. Fedak Director, Media Resources Middle Tennessee State University Murfreesboro, TN 37132 Phone: 615-898-2899 Fax: 615-898-2530 Email: gfe...@mtsu.edu Web: www.mtsu.edu/~imr “Education is a progressive study of your own ignorance.” – Will Durant VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors. -- Gail B Gail B. Fedak Director, Media Resources Middle Tennessee State University Murfreesboro, TN 37132 Phone: 615-898-2899 Fax: 615-898-2530 Email: gfe...@mtsu.edu Web: www.mtsu.edu/~imr “Education is a progressive study of your own ignorance.” – Will Durant VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors. VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors.
Re: [Videolib] MSNBC
I believe there is some question whether the rules apply to cable Vs over the air TV as I think it was originally applied only to free TV' . Personally I have no issue with applying the same guidelines to cable, but like many things the actual wording is outdated. On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 1:59 PM, Randal Baier rba...@emich.edu wrote: Gail, et al. i didn't read this kastenmeier link, but is this the 10day/35day rule? Which means, record off-air at faculty request in order to make it possible for students to review something they might miss -- active on the shelves for 10 days and in 'escrow up to 35 days, at which point it's supposed to be erased? If you really followed that to the letter I think you could basically record anything -- from food channel to CSI. It just had to serve this make-up kind of purpose. Time shifting for a good reason. Did I get this right? Randal Baier -- *From: *Gail Fedak gfe...@mtsu.edu *To: *videolib@lists.berkeley.edu *Sent: *Friday, May 27, 2011 1:40:13 PM *Subject: *Re: [Videolib] MSNBC I apologize, I left out too much information before I sent the query. We've recorded programs off-air at faculty request for 35+ years and, back in the day, licensed a fair number of them to be kept in the collection. In so doing, we have/still do observe the Kastenmeier guidelines, but have always declined requests to record programs off cable stations (basically anything other than ABC, CBS, NBC, PBS). Not being a committed TV viewer, I'm unclear as to the nature of MSNBC (cable exclusively or hybrid station of some sort?) and whether, according to the K. guidelines, it qualifies as a station from which it is permissible to record. If it is, I do understand the convoluted follow-up restrictions. Thanks again, Gail On 5/27/2011 11:03 AM, Gail Fedak wrote: A faculty member has requested that we tape off-air a 3 hour program airing on MSNBC over this weekend. My first inclination is to say no. Is this correct? Thanks, Gail -- Gail B. Fedak Director, Media Resources Middle Tennessee State University Murfreesboro, TN 37132 Phone: 615-898-2899 Fax: 615-898-2530 Email: gfe...@mtsu.edu Web: www.mtsu.edu/~imr http://www.mtsu.edu/%7Eimr “Education is a progressive study of your own ignorance.” – Will Durant VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors. -- Gail B. Fedak Director, Media Resources Middle Tennessee State University Murfreesboro, TN 37132 Phone: 615-898-2899 Fax: 615-898-2530 Email: gfe...@mtsu.edu Web: www.mtsu.edu/~imr http://www.mtsu.edu/%7Eimr “Education is a progressive study of your own ignorance.” – Will Durant VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors. VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors. -- Jessica Rosner Media Consultant 224-545-3897 (cell) 212-627-1785 (land line) jessicapros...@gmail.com VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors.
Re: [Videolib] MSNBC
You're wrong, Jessica First, Sony/CBS established that taping for personal use is legal, no matter how long it is retained. (You KNOW this, of course!) Secondly, Kastenmeier and community practice have established off-air taping for short-term use in teaching acceptable. Kastenmeier limits retention to 45 days or something...other institutions (such as mine) have gone to bat for a bit longer retention. Keeping a program taped off the air in a collection for the long-haul, on the other hand, is skating on thin, if not perilous, legal ice. gary Taping and keeping it the collection would definitely violate copyright but you could tape it if he was planning to use it in the near term. Guidelines are fuzzy but as a matter of law an off air copy is not a legal copy. On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 12:03 PM, Gail Fedak gfe...@mtsu.edu wrote: A faculty member has requested that we tape off-air a 3 hour program airing on MSNBC over this weekend. My first inclination is to say no. Is this correct? Thanks, Gail -- Gail B. Fedak Director, Media Resources Middle Tennessee State University Murfreesboro, TN 37132 Phone: 615-898-2899 Fax: 615-898-2530 Email: gfe...@mtsu.edu Web: www.mtsu.edu/~imr http://www.mtsu.edu/%7Eimr “Education is a progressive study of your own ignorance.” – Will Durant VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors. -- Jessica Rosner Media Consultant 224-545-3897 (cell) 212-627-1785 (land line) jessicapros...@gmail.com VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors. Gary Handman Director Media Resources Center Moffitt Library UC Berkeley 510-643-8566 ghand...@library.berkeley.edu http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC I have always preferred the reflection of life to life itself. --Francois Truffaut VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors.
Re: [Videolib] MSNBC
I am not wrong but perhaps I should have been clearer. First I never challenged the idea of taping a program for SHORT term use but an off air copy is an illegal copy for copyright purposes and can not be sold, rented or circulated as any legal copy could be. I am a tad sensitive since the infamous best practices document produced by the Society for Cinema Media studies basically endorsed using off air material pretty much indefinitely. It is pretty obvious per above that an off air copy is not a legal copy and that the Kastenmeier guidelines are an exception to being able to use what would otherwise be an illegal copy. On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 8:15 PM, ghand...@library.berkeley.edu wrote: You're wrong, Jessica First, Sony/CBS established that taping for personal use is legal, no matter how long it is retained. (You KNOW this, of course!) Secondly, Kastenmeier and community practice have established off-air taping for short-term use in teaching acceptable. Kastenmeier limits retention to 45 days or something...other institutions (such as mine) have gone to bat for a bit longer retention. Keeping a program taped off the air in a collection for the long-haul, on the other hand, is skating on thin, if not perilous, legal ice. gary Taping and keeping it the collection would definitely violate copyright but you could tape it if he was planning to use it in the near term. Guidelines are fuzzy but as a matter of law an off air copy is not a legal copy. On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 12:03 PM, Gail Fedak gfe...@mtsu.edu wrote: A faculty member has requested that we tape off-air a 3 hour program airing on MSNBC over this weekend. My first inclination is to say no. Is this correct? Thanks, Gail -- Gail B. Fedak Director, Media Resources Middle Tennessee State University Murfreesboro, TN 37132 Phone: 615-898-2899 Fax: 615-898-2530 Email: gfe...@mtsu.edu Web: www.mtsu.edu/~imr http://www.mtsu.edu/%7Eimr http://www.mtsu.edu/%7Eimr “Education is a progressive study of your own ignorance.” – Will Durant VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors. -- Jessica Rosner Media Consultant 224-545-3897 (cell) 212-627-1785 (land line) jessicapros...@gmail.com VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors. Gary Handman Director Media Resources Center Moffitt Library UC Berkeley 510-643-8566 ghand...@library.berkeley.edu http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC I have always preferred the reflection of life to life itself. --Francois Truffaut VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors. -- Jessica Rosner Media Consultant 224-545-3897 (cell) 212-627-1785 (land line) jessicapros...@gmail.com VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors.
