Re: [vim/vim] defaults.vim overwrites /etc/vimrc (#1033)

[Gary Johnson]

On 2016-09-03, Tony Mechelynck wrote:
> On Sat, Sep 3, 2016 at 4:25 AM, David Fishburn wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 4:24 PM, Christian Hesse wrote:
> >>
> >> Since version 7.4.2111 we load a less conservative defaults.vim file if
> >> ~/.vimrc is not found. These options can not be overwritten from global
> >> /etc/vimrc.
> >> For example the new defaults enable mouse integration. To disable mouse
> >> integration I have to create ~/.vimrc for every user. I can not disable
> >> mouse integration from /etc/vimrc.
> >>
> >> IMHO /etc/vimrc should have precedence to the default settings.
> >
> >
> > I second this on my *nix systems, I only create a vimrc (no .vimrc) so that
> > I get the same settings for each and every user on the machine.
> >
> > David
> >
> 
> /etc/vimrc is a filepathname used by several distros for the "system
> vimrc" (the default is $VIM/vimrc with no leading period).
> 
> That script is sourced long before Vim even looks for your own .vimrc,
> and therefore long before it even knows whether or not you have one —
> and whether or not defaults.vim should be sourced.

/etc/vimrc (or /usr/share/vim/vimrc) may be sourced before ~/.vimrc,
but that doesn't mean that the decision to source it has to be made
before the decision to source defaults.vim.

> I would expect defaults.vim to be sourced instead of your own vimrc
> (usually ~/.vimrc), and at the same point of startup.

Except that if a package maintainer or a system administrator wants
to provide standard settings for their users, the conventional means
to do that is to put those settings in /etc/vimrc or
/usr/share/vim/vimrc, which is sourced after vim has set its
hard-coded defaults.  As I understand it, defaults.vim is intended
to provide more useful default settings than the hard-coded
defaults, but in a way that doesn't mess up backwards compatibility
for users who have tuned their configurations around the hard-coded
defaults.  I would expect defaults.vim to be sourced as the very
first configuration file, but conditionally on the presence of
~/.vimrc.

> To get the same settings on all machines, compile Vim yourself, and
> leave the installdir at its default (/usr/local/ and its
> subdirectories) so that /etc/vimrc will be bypassed (the systyem vimrc
> being then /usr/local/share/vim/vimrc which can be left nonexistent).
> Then your own ~/.vimrc will be the first script sourced (#1 in the
> output of .scriptnames).

That's what I do as an individual user, because the results are
worth the extra effort.  I wouldn't expect a system administrator to
have to jump through those hoops simply to provide a consistent
editor environment for their users.  They should be able to rely on
the distribution's package update procedure to keep the Vim package
up to date; they should be able to simply provide a system
configuration file and not have their settings overridden by Vim.

Regards,
Gary

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Re: [vim/vim] defaults.vim overwrites /etc/vimrc (#1033)

[Tony Mechelynck]

On Sat, Sep 3, 2016 at 4:25 AM, David Fishburn  wrote:
>
> On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 4:24 PM, Christian Hesse 
> wrote:
>>
>> Since version 7.4.2111 we load a less conservative defaults.vim file if
>> ~/.vimrc is not found. These options can not be overwritten from global
>> /etc/vimrc.
>> For example the new defaults enable mouse integration. To disable mouse
>> integration I have to create ~/.vimrc for every user. I can not disable
>> mouse integration from /etc/vimrc.
>>
>> IMHO /etc/vimrc should have precedence to the default settings.
>
>
> I second this on my *nix systems, I only create a vimrc (no .vimrc) so that
> I get the same settings for each and every user on the machine.
>
> David
>

/etc/vimrc is a filepathname used by several distros for the "system
vimrc" (the default is $VIM/vimrc with no leading period).

That script is sourced long before Vim even looks for your own .vimrc,
and therefore long before it even knows whether or not you have one —
and whether or not defaults.vim should be sourced.

I would expect defaults.vim to be sourced instead of your own vimrc
(usually ~/.vimrc), and at the same point of startup.

To get the same settings on all machines, compile Vim yourself, and
leave the installdir at its default (/usr/local/ and its
subdirectories) so that /etc/vimrc will be bypassed (the systyem vimrc
being then /usr/local/share/vim/vimrc which can be left nonexistent).
Then your own ~/.vimrc will be the first script sourced (#1 in the
output of .scriptnames).


Best regards,
Tony.

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