Re: Should 2html generate valid CSS by default?
Benjamin Fritz wrote: On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 3:39 PM, Bram Moolenaar b...@moolenaar.net wrote: The documentation clearly says: By default, HTML optimized for old browsers is generated. If you prefer using cascading style sheets (CSS1) for the attributes (resulting in considerably shorter and valid HTML 4 file), use: :let g:html_use_css = 1 We can change that to default to using CSS when the variable isn't set and tell users to use this to disable that: :let g:html_use_css = 0 Any problems with that? Well...it would be inconsistent with the other options, which will remain enabled even if you :let them to zero. If I change this one, I will want to change all options to work the same way. Each would do as one might expect when :let to either zero or 1, with a default behavior noted in the :help when they are not defined at all. We also don't want to make it incompatible from previous versions without a good reason. Using unlet g:html_use_css to disable using CSS is certainly a bad idea. It conflicts with the previous meaning. Having both a g:html_use_css and g:html_no_css variable gets confusing. A user may set one and forget about the other, then needs to read documentation to find out which one prevails. We should require a variable not only to exist but also be not zero. I think the documentation already explains it that way. Some code may not check the value, there is no real need to change that. -- DENNIS: You can't expect to wield supreme executive power just 'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you! Monty Python and the Holy Grail PYTHON (MONTY) PICTURES LTD /// Bram Moolenaar -- b...@moolenaar.net -- http://www.Moolenaar.net \\\ ///sponsor Vim, vote for features -- http://www.Vim.org/sponsor/ \\\ \\\download, build and distribute -- http://www.A-A-P.org/// \\\help me help AIDS victims -- http://ICCF-Holland.org/// -- You received this message from the vim_dev maillist. Do not top-post! Type your reply below the text you are replying to. For more information, visit http://www.vim.org/maillist.php
Re: Should 2html generate valid CSS by default?
Original-Nachricht Datum: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 00:36:10 -0500 Von: Benjamin Fritz fritzophre...@gmail.com An: vim_use vim_...@googlegroups.com, vim_dev vim_dev@googlegroups.com Betreff: Should 2html generate valid CSS by default? I've taken over as maintainer of the TOhtml plugin during Vim 7.3 development. Something that's bugged me a little for some time about 2html, is that the current default is to NOT use CSS, but rather use old-style font, b, i, and other tags for markup. The :help says: By default, HTML optimized for old browsers is generated. If you prefer using cascading style sheets (CSS1) for the attributes (resulting in considerably shorter and valid HTML 4 file), use: :let g:html_use_css = 1 At this point, I'd consider old browsers to be Internet Explorer 6 and the like. I think the time has come to default g:html_use_css to true, by including this line in the tohtml.vim plugin file. A user could still disable this option by unletting it manually, or in an after/plugin file. Would t I can personally think of no compelling reason not to do this. But, to avoid offending a lot of people out of my own ignorance... Are there any good reasons to keep the default behavior of generating markup that does not use basic CSS1? Please respond if you have concerns. [...] -- You received this message from the vim_dev maillist. Do not top-post! Type your reply below the text you are replying to. For more information, visit http://www.vim.org/maillist.php
Re: Should 2html generate valid CSS by default?
I'm sorry for the partial mail I sent before! Hi Benjamin! Original-Nachricht Datum: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 00:36:10 -0500 Von: Benjamin Fritz fritzophre...@gmail.com An: vim_use vim_...@googlegroups.com, vim_dev vim_dev@googlegroups.com Betreff: Should 2html generate valid CSS by default? I've taken over as maintainer of the TOhtml plugin during Vim 7.3 development. Something that's bugged me a little for some time about 2html, is that the current default is to NOT use CSS, but rather use old-style font, b, i, and other tags for markup. The :help says: By default, HTML optimized for old browsers is generated. If you prefer using cascading style sheets (CSS1) for the attributes (resulting in considerably shorter and valid HTML 4 file), use: :let g:html_use_css = 1 At this point, I'd consider old browsers to be Internet Explorer 6 and the like. I think the time has come to default g:html_use_css to true, by including this line in the tohtml.vim plugin file. A user could still disable this option by unletting it manually, or in an after/plugin file. Would this unletting work from .vimrc? If not then perhaps creating a new variable html_no_css would be better. This variable could then be set from .vimrc. I can personally think of no compelling reason not to do this. But, to avoid offending a lot of people out of my own ignorance... As long as it's prominently announced when 7.3 is released I prefer creating CSS by default. Are there any good reasons to keep the default behavior of generating markup that does not use basic CSS1? Please respond if you have concerns. [...] The only problem I can imagine is that some mail clients (e.g. Outlook) have problems with CSS in HTML mails. Regards, Dennis Benzinger -- You received this message from the vim_dev maillist. Do not top-post! Type your reply below the text you are replying to. For more information, visit http://www.vim.org/maillist.php
Re: Should 2html generate valid CSS by default?
Benjamin Fritz wrote: I've taken over as maintainer of the TOhtml plugin during Vim 7.3 development. Something that's bugged me a little for some time about 2html, is that the current default is to NOT use CSS, but rather use old-style font, b, i, and other tags for markup. The :help says: By default, HTML optimized for old browsers is generated. If you prefer using cascading style sheets (CSS1) for the attributes (resulting in considerably shorter and valid HTML 4 file), use: :let g:html_use_css = 1 At this point, I'd consider old browsers to be Internet Explorer 6 and the like. I think the time has come to default g:html_use_css to true, by including this line in the tohtml.vim plugin file. A user could still disable this option by unletting it manually, or in an after/plugin file. I can personally think of no compelling reason not to do this. But, to avoid offending a lot of people out of my own ignorance... Are there any good reasons to keep the default behavior of generating markup that does not use basic CSS1? Please respond if you have concerns. I do plan to maintain the old non-CSS markup generation, at least to some extent. Some features, such as the diff view added in 7.3, will be less pretty, and others such as dynamic folding will be completely unavailable, but I hope to keep the basic functionality working and probably even fix a few existing bugs. The 7.3 release would be a good point to flip the default. Those who use somethink like links to view the HTML will easily see that they need to set an option. While most users don't have a hint that enabling CSS will make the output much nicer. -- I've been teaching myself to play the piano for about 5 years and now write most of my songs on it, mainly because I can never find any paper. Jeff Lynne, ELO's greatest hits /// Bram Moolenaar -- b...@moolenaar.net -- http://www.Moolenaar.net \\\ ///sponsor Vim, vote for features -- http://www.Vim.org/sponsor/ \\\ \\\download, build and distribute -- http://www.A-A-P.org/// \\\help me help AIDS victims -- http://ICCF-Holland.org/// -- You received this message from the vim_dev maillist. Do not top-post! Type your reply below the text you are replying to. For more information, visit http://www.vim.org/maillist.php
Re: Should 2html generate valid CSS by default?
On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 10:07 AM, Bram Moolenaar b...@moolenaar.net wrote: Benjamin Fritz wrote: The :help says: By default, HTML optimized for old browsers is generated. If you prefer using cascading style sheets (CSS1) for the attributes (resulting in considerably shorter and valid HTML 4 file), use: :let g:html_use_css = 1 At this point, I'd consider old browsers to be Internet Explorer 6 and the like. I think the time has come to default g:html_use_css to true, by including this line in the tohtml.vim plugin file. The 7.3 release would be a good point to flip the default. Those who use somethink like links to view the HTML will easily see that they need to set an option. While most users don't have a hint that enabling CSS will make the output much nicer. So...I've had one person suggest using html_no_css (default off) instead of html_use_css (default on). I was intending to keep the current option and just turn it on by default, so that there were no surprises to people currently using the option, but I'm not sure whether this is really necessary. If I keep the existing option, and just turn it on in the plugin, a user could override it by: 1. using a -c command-line option 2. putting a VimEnter autocmd in the .vimrc 3. putting a file in the after/plugin directory 4. manually calling unlet g:html_use_css before generating the html But this is less convenient than just putting let g:html_no_css in the .vimrc. I would like to avoid that someone who has g:html_use_css in their .vimrc gets surprised when they unlet the variable and nothing happens. I'm leaning toward using both options, defaulting g:html_use_css to true, and overriding it if g:html_no_css is set. I could certainly be convinced to use just one or the other if there are good reasons to do so. -- You received this message from the vim_dev maillist. Do not top-post! Type your reply below the text you are replying to. For more information, visit http://www.vim.org/maillist.php
Re: Should 2html generate valid CSS by default?
Benjamin Fritz wrote: The :help says: By default, HTML optimized for old browsers is generated. If you prefer using cascading style sheets (CSS1) for the attributes (resulting in considerably shorter and valid HTML 4 file), use: :let g:html_use_css = 1 At this point, I'd consider old browsers to be Internet Explorer 6 and the like. I think the time has come to default g:html_use_css to true, by including this line in the tohtml.vim plugin file. The 7.3 release would be a good point to flip the default. Those who use somethink like links to view the HTML will easily see that they need to set an option. While most users don't have a hint that enabling CSS will make the output much nicer. So...I've had one person suggest using html_no_css (default off) instead of html_use_css (default on). I was intending to keep the current option and just turn it on by default, so that there were no surprises to people currently using the option, but I'm not sure whether this is really necessary. You should not switch it on, as in assiging a value to the variable. You can behave that CSS is used when the variable is not set, and when the variable is set to non-zero non-empty. If I keep the existing option, and just turn it on in the plugin, a user could override it by: 1. using a -c command-line option 2. putting a VimEnter autocmd in the .vimrc 3. putting a file in the after/plugin directory 4. manually calling unlet g:html_use_css before generating the html But this is less convenient than just putting let g:html_no_css in the .vimrc. I would like to avoid that someone who has g:html_use_css in their .vimrc gets surprised when they unlet the variable and nothing happens. I'm leaning toward using both options, defaulting g:html_use_css to true, and overriding it if g:html_no_css is set. I could certainly be convinced to use just one or the other if there are good reasons to do so. The documentation clearly says: By default, HTML optimized for old browsers is generated. If you prefer using cascading style sheets (CSS1) for the attributes (resulting in considerably shorter and valid HTML 4 file), use: :let g:html_use_css = 1 We can change that to default to using CSS when the variable isn't set and tell users to use this to disable that: :let g:html_use_css = 0 Any problems with that? -- Why I like vim: I like VIM because, when I ask a question in this newsgroup, I get a one-line answer. With xemacs, I get a 1Kb lisp script with bugs in it ;-) /// Bram Moolenaar -- b...@moolenaar.net -- http://www.Moolenaar.net \\\ ///sponsor Vim, vote for features -- http://www.Vim.org/sponsor/ \\\ \\\download, build and distribute -- http://www.A-A-P.org/// \\\help me help AIDS victims -- http://ICCF-Holland.org/// -- You received this message from the vim_dev maillist. Do not top-post! Type your reply below the text you are replying to. For more information, visit http://www.vim.org/maillist.php
Re: Should 2html generate valid CSS by default?
On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 3:39 PM, Bram Moolenaar b...@moolenaar.net wrote: The documentation clearly says: By default, HTML optimized for old browsers is generated. If you prefer using cascading style sheets (CSS1) for the attributes (resulting in considerably shorter and valid HTML 4 file), use: :let g:html_use_css = 1 We can change that to default to using CSS when the variable isn't set and tell users to use this to disable that: :let g:html_use_css = 0 Any problems with that? Well...it would be inconsistent with the other options, which will remain enabled even if you :let them to zero. If I change this one, I will want to change all options to work the same way. Each would do as one might expect when :let to either zero or 1, with a default behavior noted in the :help when they are not defined at all. -- You received this message from the vim_dev maillist. Do not top-post! Type your reply below the text you are replying to. For more information, visit http://www.vim.org/maillist.php
Re: Should 2html generate valid CSS by default?
On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 9:24 PM, Benjamin Fritz fritzophre...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 3:39 PM, Bram Moolenaar b...@moolenaar.net wrote: The documentation clearly says: By default, HTML optimized for old browsers is generated. If you prefer using cascading style sheets (CSS1) for the attributes (resulting in considerably shorter and valid HTML 4 file), use: :let g:html_use_css = 1 We can change that to default to using CSS when the variable isn't set and tell users to use this to disable that: :let g:html_use_css = 0 Any problems with that? Well...it would be inconsistent with the other options, which will remain enabled even if you :let them to zero. If I change this one, I will want to change all options to work the same way. Each would do as one might expect when :let to either zero or 1, with a default behavior noted in the :help when they are not defined at all. I think that the best choice is just to keep the same option name and change the behavior when it hasn't been set. So, if the user sets html_use_css to 0 in their vimrc, they won't get CSS, and if they have set it to 1 or haven't set it at all, they'll get CSS. I can't see any good reason for adding a second variable, it seems like it would only complicate things. I definitely *wouldn't* write it to always be set to 1 by default - that's too hard to override for users who aren't intimately familiar with the order in which different vim initializations happen. I'd just have the plugin do this when it runs: if !exists(g:html_use_css) let html_use_css = 1 endif That way, if the user has set it to anything in his vimrc, the plugin never needs to do anything. If he sets it in his gvimrc instead, he just overwrites the default that the plugin set. ~Matt -- You received this message from the vim_dev maillist. Do not top-post! Type your reply below the text you are replying to. For more information, visit http://www.vim.org/maillist.php
Should 2html generate valid CSS by default?
I've taken over as maintainer of the TOhtml plugin during Vim 7.3 development. Something that's bugged me a little for some time about 2html, is that the current default is to NOT use CSS, but rather use old-style font, b, i, and other tags for markup. The :help says: By default, HTML optimized for old browsers is generated. If you prefer using cascading style sheets (CSS1) for the attributes (resulting in considerably shorter and valid HTML 4 file), use: :let g:html_use_css = 1 At this point, I'd consider old browsers to be Internet Explorer 6 and the like. I think the time has come to default g:html_use_css to true, by including this line in the tohtml.vim plugin file. A user could still disable this option by unletting it manually, or in an after/plugin file. I can personally think of no compelling reason not to do this. But, to avoid offending a lot of people out of my own ignorance... Are there any good reasons to keep the default behavior of generating markup that does not use basic CSS1? Please respond if you have concerns. I do plan to maintain the old non-CSS markup generation, at least to some extent. Some features, such as the diff view added in 7.3, will be less pretty, and others such as dynamic folding will be completely unavailable, but I hope to keep the basic functionality working and probably even fix a few existing bugs. -- You received this message from the vim_dev maillist. Do not top-post! Type your reply below the text you are replying to. For more information, visit http://www.vim.org/maillist.php
