Re: BUG: terminal vim 9.0.1506 x64 window 10

[Bram Moolenaar]

> Of course vim can't possibly support all possible terminals
> 
> My point is different.  It's isn't working correctly on ANY of them.
> 
> see https://github.com/microsoft/terminal/issues?q=vim+in%3Atitle+

That search results in several issues, which one is this about?

This is about one product, I don't see the relation with "ANY" here.

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Re: BUG: terminal vim 9.0.1506 x64 window 10

[rob]

And 

https://jpsoft.com/forums/threads/incompatibility-of-tcmd-30-and-vim9.11517/unread?new=1


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On Sat, Jun 3, 2023, at 9:20 PM, Robert Solomon wrote:
> Of course vim can't possibly support all possible terminals
> 
> My point is different.  It's isn't working correctly on ANY of them.
> 
> see https://github.com/microsoft/terminal/issues?q=vim+in%3Atitle+
> 
> On Saturday, June 3, 2023 at 4:04:44 PM UTC-4 aro...@vex.net wrote:
>> 
>> > Vim can't possibly add code to support each peculiarity of each of them.
>> > I'm not sure what generic problem exists that is not terminal-specific.
>> >
>> The early days of Unix coincided with a Cabrian explosion of physical
>> terminals. This led to the development of a database of terminal
>> attributes and controls, (the termcap file, if memory serves me
>> correctly). Reading this table was entertaining. The included comments
>> reeked of late-night struggles and triumphs over frustration.
>> 
>> > hundred-and-one symptoms of being an internet addict:
>> > 109. You actually read -- and enjoy -- lists like this.
>> >
>> Subscribing to this list is worth it just for access to Bram's signature
>> file. :-)*
> 
> 
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Re: BUG: terminal vim 9.0.1506 x64 window 10

[Robert Solomon]

Of course vim can't possibly support all possible terminals

My point is different.  It's isn't working correctly on ANY of them.

see https://github.com/microsoft/terminal/issues?q=vim+in%3Atitle+


On Saturday, June 3, 2023 at 4:04:44 PM UTC-4 aro...@vex.net wrote:

>
> > Vim can't possibly add code to support each peculiarity of each of them.
> > I'm not sure what generic problem exists that is not terminal-specific.
> >
> The early days of Unix coincided with a Cabrian explosion of physical
> terminals. This led to the development of a database of terminal
> attributes and controls, (the termcap file, if memory serves me
> correctly). Reading this table was entertaining. The included comments
> reeked of late-night struggles and triumphs over frustration.
>
> > hundred-and-one symptoms of being an internet addict:
> > 109. You actually read -- and enjoy -- lists like this.
> >
> Subscribing to this list is worth it just for access to Bram's signature
> file. :-)*
>
>

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Re: BUG: terminal vim 9.0.1506 x64 window 10

[arocker]

> Vim can't possibly add code to support each peculiarity of each of them.
> I'm not sure what generic problem exists that is not terminal-specific.
>
The early days of Unix coincided with a Cabrian explosion of physical
terminals. This led to the development of a database of terminal
attributes and controls, (the termcap file, if memory serves me
correctly). Reading this table was entertaining. The included comments
reeked of late-night struggles and triumphs over frustration.

> hundred-and-one symptoms of being an internet addict:
> 109. You actually read -- and enjoy -- lists like this.
>
Subscribing to this list is worth it just for access to Bram's signature
file. :-)*

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Re: BUG: terminal vim 9.0.1506 x64 window 10

[Bram Moolenaar]

> Which program do you mean when you say the good-old windows console
> and the newer windows terminal?

The Windows console is what was originally the console in MS-Windows.
Perhaps people refer to it as command.com or cmd.exe.
AFAIK this is available on every MS-Windows installation without
additional downloads or apps.

Windows terminal is a very recent development that aims to replace the
console.  It is actively being improved.
https://apps.microsoft.com/store/detail/windows-terminal/9N0DX20HK701
AFAIK this is intended as a replacement for the console and is
officially supported by Microsoft.

> Others are reporting that vim does not work correctly in the current 
> windows terminal.  I just read in the JPSoft forum that the screen is 
> scrambled upon exiting vim when called from windows terminal or cmd.exe.  
> However, this sounds like a bug I reported ~2 yrs ago that was fixed 
> relatively quickly.

JPSoft has its own terminal, right?  There must be dozens of alternatives.
Vim can't possibly add code to support each peculiarity of each of them.
I'm not sure what generic problem exists that is not terminal-specific.

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Re: BUG: terminal vim 9.0.1506 x64 window 10

[Robert Solomon]

Which program do you mean when you say the good-old windows console and the 
newer windows terminal?

Others are reporting that vim does not work correctly in the current 
windows terminal.  I just read in the JPSoft forum that the screen is 
scrambled upon exiting vim when called from windows terminal or cmd.exe.  
However, this sounds like a bug I reported ~2 yrs ago that was fixed 
relatively quickly.

--rob solomon


On Thursday, May 4, 2023 at 10:48:52 AM UTC-4 Bram Moolenaar wrote:

>
> > I use JPSoft's take command as by command interpreter. Now at version 
> 29. 
> > When I start vim in the terminal, it does not update the screen 
> correctly.
> > Contents from longer lines remain on screen when the file has shorter 
> lines.
>
> I don't know the "take command". Is this a kind of shell? Or is it
> like a console window, that you start Vim in?
>
> There is no good standard terminal on MS-Windows, all off them have
> their individual issues. We try to support at least the good-old
> Windows console and the newer Windows Terminal, since these are widely
> used. Making it work with all kind of alternatives is a struggle. And
> when you run Vim, the extra features that the alternative offers are
> usually irrelevant. Please consider using a standard terminal to run
> Vim in. Otherwise, report the problem to JPSoft. Since Vim works fine
> in a standard terminal, the problem very likely is on their side.
>
>
> -- 
> The fastest way to get an engineer to solve a problem is to declare that 
> the
> problem is unsolvable. No engineer can walk away from an unsolvable problem
> until it's solved.
> (Scott Adams - The Dilbert principle)
>
> /// Bram Moolenaar -- br...@moolenaar.net -- http://www.Moolenaar.net \\\
> /// \\\
> \\\ sponsor Vim, vote for features -- http://www.Vim.org/sponsor/ ///
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Re: [vim 9 script] String indexing behavior different from legacy Vim

[Bram Moolenaar]

> Sorry but,
> Out of well indexing,
> which is faster ?
> 
> 1) indexing by bytes -> legacy
> 2) indexing by characters -> vim9script

Indexing by bytes can be faster.  But the difference is probably small,
the computation of the index probably matters more.  You'll have to try
it out to know what happens in your situation.

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Re: [vim 9 script] String indexing behavior different from legacy Vim

[Bram Moolenaar]

> On 2023-06-03, Bram Moolenaar  wrote:
> >
> >> Legacy Vim script:
> >>
> >> let text = 'àbc'
> >> echo text[2]
> >>
> >> Result: 'b'
> >>
> >> Vim 9 script:
> >>
> >> const text = 'àbc'
> >> echo text[2]
> >>
> >> Result: 'c'
> >>
> >> Is the different behavior (counting chars vs bytes?) intentional?
> >
> > Yes, in Vim9 script the index is in characters.  In legacy script it is
> > in bytes.
> >
> > The help for this doesn't have it's own tag, I'll add one.
> > You can find it above ":help vim9-gotchas".
> 
> I was expecting to find it under `:help vim9-differences`, but either
> I missed the relevant item, or it's not there, in which case it could be
> added there.

Well, that's an overview, not a complete list.  There is no objective
way to decide what to put there, what is important enough.  I can add
this one, but for expressions there are more things that can matter.
Adding a link to vim9-gotchas also would be useful.

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Re: [vim 9 script] String indexing behavior different from legacy Vim

[N i c o l a s]

Hi Bram,

Sorry but,
Out of well indexing,
which is faster ?

1) indexing by bytes -> legacy
2) indexing by characters -> vim9script

Thank you for your answer.
Nicolas
**
Le samedi 3 juin 2023 à 13:12:53 UTC+2, Bram Moolenaar a écrit :

>
> > Legacy Vim script:
> > 
> > let text = 'àbc'
> > echo text[2]
> > 
> > Result: 'b'
> > 
> > Vim 9 script:
> > 
> > const text = 'àbc'
> > echo text[2]
> > 
> > Result: 'c'
> > 
> > Is the different behavior (counting chars vs bytes?) intentional?
>
> Yes, in Vim9 script the index is in characters. In legacy script it is
> in bytes.
>
> The help for this doesn't have it's own tag, I'll add one.
> You can find it above ":help vim9-gotchas".
>
> -- 
> hundred-and-one symptoms of being an internet addict:
> 101. U can read htis w/o ny porblm and cant figur eout Y its evn listd.
>
> /// Bram Moolenaar -- br...@moolenaar.net -- http://www.Moolenaar.net \\\
> /// \\\
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Re: [vim 9 script] String indexing behavior different from legacy Vim

[Lifepillar]

On 2023-06-03, Lifepillar  wrote:
>> Yes, in Vim9 script the index is in characters.  In legacy script it is
>> in bytes.
>>
>> The help for this doesn't have it's own tag, I'll add one.
>> You can find it above ":help vim9-gotchas".
>
> I was expecting to find it under `:help vim9-differences`, but either
> I missed the relevant item, or it's not there, in which case it could be
> added there.

Sorry, I read too fast. Maybe, a reference "see also vim9-gotchas" might
be added under vim9-differences, which seems to me the obvious place to
go (and probably easier to search than "gotchas").

Btw, despite the change having caused me some headache debugging one of
my scripts, I think that it makes a lot of sense for a text editor
scripting language to index strings by characters, so I welcome the
change!

Life.

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Re: [vim 9 script] String indexing behavior different from legacy Vim

[Lifepillar]

On 2023-06-03, Bram Moolenaar  wrote:
>
>> Legacy Vim script:
>>
>> let text = 'àbc'
>> echo text[2]
>>
>> Result: 'b'
>>
>> Vim 9 script:
>>
>> const text = 'àbc'
>> echo text[2]
>>
>> Result: 'c'
>>
>> Is the different behavior (counting chars vs bytes?) intentional?
>
> Yes, in Vim9 script the index is in characters.  In legacy script it is
> in bytes.
>
> The help for this doesn't have it's own tag, I'll add one.
> You can find it above ":help vim9-gotchas".

I was expecting to find it under `:help vim9-differences`, but either
I missed the relevant item, or it's not there, in which case it could be
added there.

Thanks,
Life.

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Re: [vim 9 script] String indexing behavior different from legacy Vim

[Bram Moolenaar]

> Legacy Vim script:
> 
> let text = 'àbc'
> echo text[2]
> 
> Result: 'b'
> 
> Vim 9 script:
> 
> const text = 'àbc'
> echo text[2]
> 
> Result: 'c'
> 
> Is the different behavior (counting chars vs bytes?) intentional?

Yes, in Vim9 script the index is in characters.  In legacy script it is
in bytes.

The help for this doesn't have it's own tag, I'll add one.
You can find it above ":help vim9-gotchas".

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Re: [vim 9 script] String indexing behavior different from legacy Vim

[Lifepillar]

On 2023-06-03, Lifepillar  wrote:
> On 2023-06-03, Lifepillar  wrote:

> Mmh, even strpart(), which is supposed to count bytes, gives the same
> result:

Forget this: strpart() is fine. I have trouble just with indexing.

Life.


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Re: [vim 9 script] String indexing behavior different from legacy Vim

[Lifepillar]

On 2023-06-03, Lifepillar  wrote:
> Legacy Vim script:
>
> let text = 'àbc'
> echo text[2]
>
> Result: 'b'
>
> Vim 9 script:
>
> const text = 'àbc'
> echo text[2]
>
> Result: 'c'
>
> Is the different behavior (counting chars vs bytes?) intentional?

Mmh, even strpart(), which is supposed to count bytes, gives the same
result:

echo strpart(text, 2, 1)

is 'b' in legacy Vim, but 'c' in Vim 9 script.

Life.

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[vim 9 script] String indexing behavior different from legacy Vim

[Lifepillar]

Legacy Vim script:

let text = 'àbc'
echo text[2]

Result: 'b'

Vim 9 script:

const text = 'àbc'
echo text[2]

Result: 'c'

Is the different behavior (counting chars vs bytes?) intentional?

Thanks,
Life.



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Re: The package you uploaded (vim-noweb.tgz) is empty

[Lifepillar]

On 2023-06-02, Bram Moolenaar  wrote:

> You could try using another browser.

I have tried with Safari, Brave, and LibreWolf (~Firefox) on macOS to no
avail. I have taken care to disable ad blockers and, afaics, only
cross-site cookies are blocked.

Life.

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